Miraculous is Garbage (and Here's Why)

Miraculous Ladybug is a French show made by Thomas Astruc and ZAG Studios. The series is about a girl named Marinette and a boy named Adrien who stop the machinations of the evil Hawk Moth. That sounds good but is actually terrible, join me as I sift through this wasted concept of a series and explain why its so bad.
Thumbnail art by - Dazlyn Art
Transition Voice Lines by Pinkielmplaled
00:00:00 - Thesis
00:01:14 - Animation
00:07:06 - Marinette
00:19:03 - Adrien
00:32:01 - Chloé
00:42:00 - Characters (Thesis)
00:42:35 - Characters (Ladybug)
00:43:59 - Characters (Chat Noir)
00:45:00 - Characters (Queen Bee)
00:46:24 - Characters (Hawk Moth)
00:47:45 - Characters (Alya)
00:48:58 - Characters (Nino)
00:50:45 - Characters (Luka)
00:52:27 - Characters (Kagami)
00:53:51 - Characters (Chloé 2.0)
00:55:45 - Characters (Nathalie)
00:57:19 - Characters (Lila)
00:59:17 - Characters (Wang Fu)
01:00:32 - Characters (Conclusion)
01:01:31 - Story (Gabriel/Dracula)
01:08:07 - Story (General Plot/Bad Writing)
01:19:54 - Romance
01:30:25 - Season 4
01:42:30 - Thomas
01:54:18 - Conclusion
01:59:07 - Thank You/End Cards
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💡 TOPICS IN THIS VIDEO 💡
• Miraculous is Garbage
🔎 HASHTAGS 🔎
#miraculous #ladybug #miraculousladybug

[@analyticaltomato]

I agree with most of your points but you are wrong on a couple of things in the “racism” section. 1:46:32 he’s not based on Viking culture, he’s based on Asterix, a cartoon and comics character who is a Gaulish warrior (barbarians inhabiting France before France was a thing) fighting against the Roman Empire. It’s a bit of an old series, I can see why you didn’t know about it especially if you’re not European, but it’s based on French culture, not just a random supervillain thing. Like, they may not get their POC characters spot on, but the French writers… know how to write French culture well. At the very least. Also, Gina (Marinette’s grandma) isn’t Russian, she’s Italian! I don’t know if they changed it in other dubs but “Befana” is an Italian tradition, and she sings Italian opera when akumatized. Let me explain something: while not just present in Italian culture, “Befana” is a magical being taking the appearance of a sweet old woman, that on the night between the 5th and 6th of January (a festivity called Epifania) gifts candy to good kids and coal to bad kids. That’s what the episode was referencing. She is a staple of ITALIAN culture. I get it that her and her husband are white passing, but European non-mainstream cultures get shafted enough by mainstream media, so seeing people not doing proper research makes me a little mad. Of course, I get this video must have been hard to write, but please do better research next time, really.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

I apologize on not doing enough research, that is on me. However my point on them being generic enough to work ourside of their contexts is more what i was aiming at. The befaina story is intresting and im glad you told it its helpful in this discussion. In English i dont know what her accent is supposed to be but i heard Russian and thats why i made the comparisons i did.not trying to justify my lack of reassarch im just explaining my train of thought is all

[@laraprisma6381]

@@ThinkBoxChris The thing with Oni chan, is that in Japanese this name also means Big Brother, at least that's what I hear in anime sometimes but I could be wrong.

[@jakoblent4694]

@@laraprisma6381 its One-chan with an E but yeah Oni and one are very similiar sounding to a non japanesse audience

[@zerotime2530]

@@laraprisma6381 you are actually thinking of the word onii chan or nii chan meaning big brother. Oni does in fact mean demon and while they sound the same the way in which it's spelled is different giving the words two different meanings.

[@laraprisma6381]

@@zerotime2530 oh, it makes sense. I was in mind that I could be wrong, but thanks for pointing out my mistake.

[@maxilly12]

I still don't get how HAWKMOTH, the person who terrorized Paris for a whole YEAR, constantly abused abused his son, and ggot Nataliehurt gets redeemed . But chloe, a 14-year old girl who just wants her mother's approval is "an irredeemable monster".

[@tiamystic]

🤦🏾‍♀️

[@inplane9970]

And we're just supposed to accept the fact that Gabriel is a good father for doing the absolute bare minimum of not being a murderous criminal. Something unique goes through Astruc's mind, but it's definitely not good ideas.

[@ashebennett7726]

@@inplane9970 can you even call anything he did a bare minimum?

[@PrismOpal64]

Simple, Thomas hates all women that aren’t Marinette.

[@Saga_Anserum]

​@@ashebennett7726speaking as someone who has not seen the show, he does the bare minimum for like... a distant rich uncle or smthn. not a parent/guardian, he is totally falling flat on that one😊

[@Scalesthelizardwizard3399]

The fact that the creator says Chloe a teenager with a bad home life is an irredeemable monster deeply disturbs me Edit: This is not an excuse for her actions this is about how messed up the creator is for him to back peddle on her arc while saying she's not abused (physical is not the only kind of abuse) and calling an irredeemable monster

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Right, very victim blaming culture

[@Scalesthelizardwizard3399]

@@ThinkBoxChris Apparently he's claimed she isn't abused

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@scalesthelizardwizard3399 and he's wrong like flat out wrong. From what weve seen she is

[@Scalesthelizardwizard3399]

@@ThinkBoxChris I guess he thinks physical abuse is the only type of abuse I've never watched a single episode of Miraculous I just know it as a train wreck with cool transformations I enjoy seeing people talk about

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@scalesthelizardwizard3399 yeah no hes flat out wrong. Watch style queen and youll see

[@aguywithalotofopinions412]

I think the main problem with Adrien and Marinette is that they don't really like each other, they like the masks they put up. Marinette treats Ladybug like a job so she has to be this hypercompetent badass but that's not how she normally is, but that's who Adrien fell for. And Adrien's whole civilian life is kind of an act so he treats Chat Noir as an escape where he can be himself, away from expectations, but Marinette doesn't like that guy, she likes polite, repressed, Adrien.

[@xshadiie6447]

thats why i prefer the ship MariChat so much. Adrien falls inlove with the actual person Mari is, not the version where she is "perfect" and all her flaws (stalking sadly not) dissapear. and Mari falls in love with Chatnoir, who is just the person Adrien always wanted to be if it wasnt for his parents wanting him to be perfect.

[@Kyumifun]

Basically they love each other's idealised versions yet hate/don't like the real self of the other. That just speaks of how terrible the idea of their relationship is. It just CANNOT work.

[@StrawberryShorty]

This comment totally reflects a story I'm working on. I like it.

[@marigalante944]

I had some headcanons that they were actually aroace lol

[@Elijah_Crews]

they are working pretty good ngl @@Kyumifun

[@minx2424]

How can Marinette hate Chloe’s obsession with ladybug and not reflect that she herself acts even worse about Adrien

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Honestly thats a really good point

[@0rchlid]

​@@ThinkBoxChrislooking at the mirror is the harshest thing we could experience, cuz sometimes its really hard to accept the truth.

[@ivrydice0954]

Cause she's a a goober without the mask.

[@liahnave5403]

I read somewhere that the creator of Mlb based Chloe on their real life past bully which is my they want us to hate her but I don't have a source so don't take my word on that

[@elizabethb4168]

It's probably because Marinette's issue with Chloe is less that she finds the obsession creepy and more that she has a moral objection, she probably sees Chloe as standing against what Ladybug stands for So it really wouldn't prompt her to evaluate how creepy she is towards Adrien

[@toadtv4389]

I hate when people say shit like "Miraculous is for kids, dont be so serious about", THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE NEED TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT IT, IT'S HARMFUL FOR CHILDREN

[@Theawesomeninja_XD]

Exactly this

[@VirgoLeaf]

people like these thinks that kids are just mindless little people with no conscience, have they forgotten how being a kid was like? i sure know that they are indeed NOT mindless

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@virgoleaf4502 have you raised a child recently? Ive helped raised several as in i watched them every day and was responsible for their safety, and i know first hand they are not mindless but small children imitate what they see and often arent super deep in thought about something. Not saying they dont think or arent able to just enjoy some aspects, but at the end of the day what you watch as a child will color your world view and i think its important to explain why certain shows are bad for parents to let their children watcn. Weither or not they agree with me is up to them

[@VirgoLeaf]

@@ThinkBoxChris i did not 😅 but when i think of when i was a kid, i remember how certain stuff that i saw as a kid was affecting my way of thinking. if a character got called out for something bad they did, then i would learned from it. So i can imagine how kids being exposed to a character stalking their crush and having their friends encourage it might affect these kids that will think this is the norm :/ kids are smart, they are able to think, and those that says "it’s just a kid show" seem to forget that, which scares me if they ever have children

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@virgoleaf4502 but shes not called out for it, ever thats the problem. Yeah her friends tell her shes being kinda silly about all this but the show treats it as a joke, and positive thing to her character. Were not saying its just for kids let it go, quite thr opposite in fact

[@frickyou5720]

Marinette having adhd and adrien having autism is the realest headcanon I’ve ever heard for this show

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Haha thank you it makes so much sense

[@jillcannata1142]

The minute I started re watching the show (which I don't know why in all honestly) but my first thought was she has to have adhd I can't be the only one who thinks this! Same thing with adrien! Im glad I'm not alone in my theory loll

[@wren_.]

I love this head canon, as well as the one where adrien is bi but in a “he’s too confused to realize that there’s another sexuality that’s not gay or straight”

[@ThinkBoxChris]

I love that idea!

[@Bangtan4Life13]

I still like the movie tho 🤷🏻‍♀️ it was better and wow, Marinette having the same neurological disorder as me? ( ADHD) Wow, never thought about that. I like that kind of representation… (I have ADHD and Epilepsy).

[@Orkprof]

PERSONAL HEADCANON: after season 3, Chloé is replaced by a lookalike paid by Astruc. Real Chloé has moved to New York and is growing into a better person. 😂

[@cradiculous]

That sounds absurd until it's remembered how many lookalike and clone characters are in the show.

[@LukiKruki]

​@@cradiculousFelix, the clone of Adrien. Zoe, the clone of Chloe. Kagami, Fei Wu, the clones of Marinette. Did I miss something?

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@LukiKruki i think they're referring to the lazy animation in that so many of the background characters are pallet swaps on actual characters. Like melean's dad or manon fir example, you cam a white blond version of manon in animation and its uncanny

[@LukiKruki]

@@ThinkBoxChris Nonetheless, Felix and Zoe got created only for Adrien and Chloe to not get character development which in the end makes all of 4 flat. Felix and Zoe do things that Adrien and Chloe should do.

[@adraabouji1937]

LMAOOOO I HOPE YOU DON'T MIND I'M TAKING THIS AS MY HEADCANON OKAY

[@MarinetteWinters]

I found it really disappointing that the only reason Marinette wanted to go to China was bc Adrien was going to be there. Was it so hard to just have her want to go to China to travel, have fun, practice her Chinese, spend time with her family and learn more about her heritage? And just have Adrien there as a funny coincidence, his dad was doing business there or something. I was a teen girl once and even though I had huge crushes, I still had other things going on in my life outside of the guy I liked.

[@ZazzelTheGamer]

Same with me. But hell I was shy. If I knew my crush was gonna be there I'd probably sit far from them lmao.

[@natnuss98]

Lets face it. Every fan rewrite is better than what Thomas did.

[@ashebennett7726]

@@alexgaming8944yes infinity.

[@LeslieThePirhana]

Fr the show had so much potential for each season. like when she lost all the miraculous, imagine a season where she got the miraculous one by one. Literally anything is better than what they’re doing it’s just filler episodes for the first 20 episodes and then the last 2 or 3 they suddenly tackle the problem that’s been a thing since the last season :-(

[@areionamckeegan2533]

Amen 🙏

[@krishnavinesh5638]

Except for mine 🥲

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@krishnavinesh5638 im sure yours is great

[@d4red3v1l8]

The creator (Thomas) annoys me a lot. The fact that his fans know more about his characters than he does himself. He says that Chloe doesn’t have any trauma or isn’t being abused by her mum, when we have seen loads of episodes where Chloe’s mum keeps forgetting her name, and other things that show she’s being abused by her mum. She’s not being abused physically by her mum but she is mentally. Thomas then says Chloe is a monster and can’t be redeemed, yet he had shown loads of episodes where she does get redeemed. He’s honestly the most dumbest writer i’ve ever seen. And I honestly think Thomas hates Adrien, because in the first few seasons he was always sacrificing himself. Adrien never got to know that Hawkmoth is Gabriel in season 5, but Marinette did. The few seasons were super repetitive which is one reason why the show flop. I think the episodes were also rushed, just watch the episodes and look how fast it’s going. And because fans don’t like the show, a lot of them are remaking it. *Including me lol*

[@thecrazygooseofyourdreams4785]

And the nail in the coffin (for me) is that the concept of miraculous is interesting and could have been done, but no we got what we got

[@T_E_G]

What annoys me more is how uptight and how "right" he desperately wants to be. And also because the stuff he's doing is creepy and immature. But mostly how he blocks anyone INCLUDING his own fans/supporters that literally say anything bad about the show :(

[@d4red3v1l8]

@@T_E_G He’s stupid asf, he blocks anyone that disagrees with him and calls them haters. He makes me feel better about my terrible stories.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@the_elemental_guardian6503 yeah hes a man baby and i dont get his ego

[@redballoon9007]

The events of S2 and somewhat S3 aren’t events of Chloe being redeemed. It’s a foundation of a redemption. Chloe wasn’t actually redeemed or getting redeemed but it seemed like she was on the path TO be redeemed only for THAT to be taken away from us because of…..reasons-

[@astxrism8236]

So basically Thomas is trying to say that Gabriel, the abusive, neglectful, horrible, and awful father, is more redeemable than Chloe, a neglected, abused girl who is clearly affected by her past. And even went as far as to paint him as a hero. At the very least, I expected Adrien to take SOME PART in recreation considering Gabriel is his father, but instead, he played the damsel in distress. Amazing. Just great. I've never seen anything worse.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Yep things he did: that

[@edogawaconan4869]

Didn't some fans say Adrien is too weak to be a main character? The Agreste arc is FAR from over.😂

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Id love to give him credit for that, but no its not that complex. If it was he wouldnt have undo all the work put into her and then had a "triumphant" moment of her crying in season 5. He really does not like chole and thinks shes a monster, full stop. And thats not me wanting to boil it down, he has countless tweets about her saying basically that

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@obsidiacedits5809 i dont have them lole saved on my phone, but seriously google "thomas astruic chole tweets" and youll find them

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@obsidiacedits5809 yeah hes kinda got it out for her. As for ignoring the writers i kinda cant because ive seen what they think of her ive seen how it colors her character. It also doesnt help that the show is written 2 years in advance so any story element is locked in as a reaction to stuff that happened wt a different time then it was being aired. For a cgi show i get why this can happen, but after the massive gaps between seasons 3 and 5 i dont really think they'll change their tunes. Chole was getting better, all be it in her own way i wasnt expecting a puppy, but using her status for good or just treating Sabrina with respect would have been enough for me. But after season 4 starts shes just gotten worse and i find it to be telling that rather than having a moment to reflect they just gave her temper tantrums like she never had those moments of growth. As for the crying, yeah he realizes shes lost everything, but i doubt anything will come of it and if something does i feel like most fans will consider it to little to late

[@Theowolfboy1969]

Things I wanted from this show: 1. Chloe to actually be a good person and keep being queen bee 2. The identity reveal and let the main two date without time reversal bs 3. Cat and ladybug to both be guardians of the miraculous box

[@ThinkBoxChris]

I like the idea of them spitting the boxes contence like divorced parents

[@Theowolfboy1969]

@@ThinkBoxChris so that way if Gabriel steal the miraculous in strike back it’d only be the ones in mari’s box but she would still have miraculous to use since cat noir is also guardian

[@MikeAftonsWife]

Fr

[@user-nj7do7dn8b]

U couldn’t have used a different example? “ like divorced parents “ 💀🤦🏽‍♀@@ThinkBoxChris

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@user-nj7do7dn8b haha you know on reflection its crass but i stand by it in a way. I mean their living beings with thoats and personalities a lot of sperated families have the kids dovided so they can still hsve a fanily but not be so overwhelmed

[@glimmerstantroop46321]

This show is prime example of great concept, medial execution

[@miss_chelles1338]

Pretty much. 😔 😂

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@miss_chelles1338 glade you liked it

[@andrewshearsby8125]

A complete mess give me Blue from Happiness Charge Precure over this show any day (the joke is Blue is the most hated character in Precure)

[@Le99.9]

Exactly, it's just a huge pile of disappointment and waste of money/effort

[@Howaboutyes11]

yep

[@mirror2760]

THANK YOU. I've never seen anyone else talk about how much the creator seems to hate women that aren't Marinette. It always struck me as odd the way he completely villainized them only to have Mari do smth similar and have it shrugged off.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Right! Like wtf why do that

[@ashebennett7726]

@@ThinkBoxChris because according to astruc, that’s his daughter.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@ashebennett7726 yeah its dumb

[@evanwebb6374]

@@ashebennett7726 the idea that Thomas sees Marinette as his daughter becomes so much worse and disturbing when you remember that her dad's name is Tom, clearly naming him after himself, and that her mom is literally based on Thomas Astruc's ex Chinese girlfriend who was also named Sabine. He literally created his dream family with his ex girlfriend and used his show to play out his family fantasies, it's so creepy

[@onha-3904]

I recommand you the amazing video "the dark side of miraculous ladybug" by Amanda Todhunter, she goes deep in Thomas weird mentality, tweets etc. Excellent video to complete this one !

[@MaidenOfAir]

Thomas's "She's Barbie, he's Ken. That isn't changing." tweet gets me every time. He's arguing that Adrien doesn't have to change or be as much of a focus in the show, and that's ok. But the difference is that barbie/ken are DOLLS. Not characters in a piece of media where things actually happen. And it's even funnier because in the Barbie move (recently released, so he wouldn't have seen it when he wrote that tweet, to be fair), Ken actually gets AMAZING characterization.

[@kouignzz]

His idea of feminism is so out of line it’s insane lmao. If he wanted real feminism in his show then he wouldn’t have written Marinette to be resentful to other women who dare to even look at Adrien and paint women who hate Marinette as “evil” and “villainous”. It kills me every time I watch an episode where Marinette is coming up with some sort of sabotage to another women who just so happens to like Adrien whether platonically or romantically. He should take after the Barbie movie for feminism because that movie displayed it perfectly: Uplift women while acknowledging that men also have problems and live in equality.

[@StrawberryShorty]

The Barbie movie would beg to differ.

[@daisanity6457]

HE'S JUST KEN AND HE'S ENOUGH

[@RawrX32009]

@@daisanity6457 he has extremely powerful kenergy

[@altalt479]

FR there's nothing wrong with the woman being the centre of the story but that doesn't mean that every other character should be sidelined and made to look like a fool so Ur main character can shine

[@lydiat8686]

What I find disturbing abt Thomas is that he based Marinette's parents off himself and his ex girlfriend Sabine, claiming Marinette was their "virtual child"

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Yep its fucking weird no matter how much i hear it

[@RawrX32009]

No way that incel of a man ever had a gf

[@mysticalkeyblade759]

That’s just creepy as hell

[@RawrX32009]

Someone should put this man on a registry💀

[@goliathtigerfishes]

Excuse moi???

[@joeljohansson3615]

About Marinette's stalking. Thank you for agreeing that she is a stalker. People say that it's normal for teenagers to act like that and that it's suppose to be exaggerated. How is following your crush to another fucking continent normal or exaggerated!? And this is a kids show! And saying that kids won't care about that because they're kids is bullshit too. Sure kids don't really understand what obsession is, but they can see Marinette's behavior as something normal and take after it. Thomas Asstruc really messed up.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Yeah exsactly just writing it off isnt good its bad behavior and bad to impliment

[@Theawesomeninja_XD]

Completely agree! Someone even said that Gabriel wasn't abusive because of that and I'm like girl, no. Marinette is a stalker and Gabriel is abusive.

[@viviennemorgan7217]

thomas astruc made gabriel the good guy

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@tmoneydamaster20 broke into his house and followed him to a different continent and she lied to be in a party she wasnt invited to at his house... how is that not stalking?

[@joeljohansson3615]

@@tmoneydamaster20 following your crush to another fvcking continent isn't considered stalking? Having your crush's schedule for the next three years isn't considered stalking? And let me remind you. She must have gotten it from somewhere. And I'm sure it's not something out on the internet. So I really wanna hear what you consider as stalking.

[@split776]

As a woman I honestly find Thomas' claim of the show being "feminist" insulting. Essentially what he does is sideline a guy to the point of irrelevance to make a girl the leader, which unfortunately implies that if the guy was a bit more relevant the girl wouldn't be more than a sidekick, that the only way for a girl to be the main character is if you kill any chance for the guy to hold his ground - feminism is about reaching equality, Thomas is all about pitting men and women against each other (what will he do when he finds out non-binary people exist.... the world war of genders......)

[@alandoodles]

Yeah, it's irritating. It makes it feel like that the male characters must be written as goofy and/or incompetent or written out of the specific episode's plot for the female characters to shine which is quite insulting.

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@@groudonvert7286 Yeah,he was "involved",as in just being the motivation for a villian he doesn't even get to investigate. How nice! He got "plenty" of screentime to show off the relationship between him/his father and why he is the way he is like Chloe! : /

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@@alandoodles It's basically modern feminism 101 for most pieces of media now,especially movies. A female can't make mistakes that bring lasting consequences and have to grow mentally/emotionally or have to learn her skills gradually instead of being magically competent from Day 1. If you have to drag down the male characters to lift up the female one.that's when you know they failed at writing a interesting character.

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@@groudonvert7286 I'm being sacrastic,as in, you think that Adrien being the villian's motivation on it's own makes him important. Which is BS. That means jack shit if Adrien as a character has no agency in any of it. Such as getting episodes where we get learn about him and his dad's relationship/life,him actually being proactive and trying to find out who tf Hawkmoth is,leading into him finding how and how he grapples with that while keeping his own identity a secret. Which is infinitely more interesting than the fake tension in keeping Adrien oblivious that Thomas though was good writing.Which,considering S5's finale well..

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@@groudonvert7286 You just completely glossed over my complaint. The issues was,and it's not just an issue with S1 but all of the series is that Mari is a black hole of character that sucks up every other potentially interesting character and steals screentime,which IMO is wasted on her as she doesn't have any sense of progression with her character. And her tie into the main conflict of the series is boring and less justified than the glorified side character Adrien is. This is mainly because Thomas has a weird view of feminism where the female characters must be perfect and he has favoritism for Mari. And yeah,I have some hope for the movie that it'll actually protray the LB/CN relationship like an EQUAL partnership unlike how the show failed to do where the focus on both of them. if only because afaik Thomas has nothing to do with the movie.

[@izthepurbleperson]

I also always thought how stupid it was that Marinette can't get akumatized. I mean, she literally had about 2-3 mental breakdowns, crying and feeling worthless and lost, and yet Hawk Moth was in the 4th dimension or something, because a guy who gets upset he can't feed pigeons is sadder than a mental breakdown. I'd also like to think that if Marinette WAS akumatized, Cat Noir would finally be able to have the spotlight and not seem thrown away for once.

[@gtd5626]

Apparently, Astruc has said that Marinette being akumatized is something that can not happen. Which I get why, because she's the only one that can capture the Akuma and repair everything, but cmon.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

I mean she could. Maybe durring the eipsodes she gave the earings away or wasnt ladybug. Or hell maybe tiki takes the earings after she is alumatized and gets them to adrien and he gives the chat ring to nino or luka

[@loodgack]

this show taught me, how NOT to write a story.

[@totallynotreese]

😭😭

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll]

Just take a Dear Princess Celestia letter. And then put. I learned and was taught how to not write a TV show.

[@manzanito3652]

"Jesus Christ, I could write this shit" -Ghandi

[@VideoSmarts1]

and also shows if they ever do a live-action remake, it would have to be a completely different show reworked from the ground up

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@Xingzi786 ok well first, thats not what's happening here. Your taking a comment about how the writing is bad and stopping there. People do think the show is bad others think it's good, but even ill admit its better than peppa at least this has something to dig into. As for the other thing a childrens show needs to be given special care because of who its for, and you clearly like it given you called someone (dont know if it was me or the og commenter) a 30 year old fat ass, showing something one of us said struck a nerve with you and while thats fine, dont ladh out like that. You wanna contribute to the conversation that's great, but this isnt the way to do it be respectful or be gone

[@sushigooo8061]

Tomas treats Adrien like Gabriel does. Not wanted, and ignores until needed for display as an object. Adrien deserves so much better. As both a writer and someone with CPTSD and possible autism like him, it’s sad to see what they do with him or rather, lack there of.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Im sorry you have to relate to such a terrible sinario i can only imagine what youve been through, but im glad you got out of it alive and you made it here, i hope things keep going for you

[@princesspikachu3915]

What’s weird is my almost 6 year old daughter really loves Cat Noir. She even had to get a Cat Noir ink pen as one of her 1st grade items last week when we school shopped. Actually I was thinking about getting another one for myself. Sad they don’t use him.

[@archita7944]

it's pretty hilarious since people LOVE Chat Noir. Dare I say, he's probably more popular than Marinette/Ladybug as a character. His storyline and personality just outshines our beloved mc despite lacking screen time.

[@Archiver_Studio]

@@archita7944 That's because he has had ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT AND SEEMS TO BE AN ACTUAL CHARACTER He isn't just made this pristine golden statue that can do no wrong like Marinette is He is an understandable and sympathetic kid with a reason to be a hero

[@archita7944]

@@Archiver_Studio I know...Why are you acting like I was disagreeing with you...? 😭

[@conspiracypanda1200]

I know you said it's your favorite episode for him, but Adrien's "good" episode, Kuro Neko, is actually pretty dissapointing. Let me elaborate real quick: Adrien lives a stifling life as a prim and proper model and child, shaped perfectly to the expectations of his father in the hopes of being worthy of his love. Being Cat Noir allows him to escape from that. However, Ladybug does not treat Cat Noir with any respect, nor does she return his (admittedly just as creepy as her own) affections. So, in pursuit of Ladybug's recognition and approval, Adrien becomes Cat Walker, a prim and proper model superhero, shaped perfectly to the expectations of his romantic interest in the hopes of being worthy of her love. Now, this wouldn't be a problem if the episode actually took this parallel and made the point you'd think it would make; ie. Adrien should not force himself to be something he doesn't want to be to earn the approval of others. He can be both Cat Noir _and_ be worthy of trust and respect! However, instead of delivering this simple message, the writing accidentally stumbles past this easy moral and somehow makes their relationship even more upsetting. You see, despite being an entirely manufactured personality, Ladybug does not have any problem with Cat Walker whatsoever! In fact, her _only_ problem with him is that he is _too perfect_ and now she can't do her superhero job right because she's so flustered all the time! Nevermind that Cat Walker is a forced personality designed to impress her while Adrien hides his true feelings... Kinda like how Adrien has reluctantly shaped his everyday civilian identity... An identity which Marinette _also_ has a crush on... (Now THAT is some unfortunate implications!) In the end, Cat Noir comes back not because Ladybug accepted and realised his true worth and wanted him back (which admittedly is _kinda_ touched upon, but not as thoroughly as you'd hope or expect), but because in comparison to Cat Walker, Cat Noir is completely unnattractive to her. She doesn't prefer Cat Noir because he's been a reliable long-term partner, a hero who's earned her trust, or a teammate worthy of respect. Cat Noir is, according to Ladybug, the more *convenient* choice. And that... That _hurts,_ man.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Huh never thought of it that way

[@WebbedManiac]

@@ThinkBoxChris Honestly, I ONLY thought of it that way. It was mindboggling to me that people actually thought this episode was good. The whole episode basically implies that the person Marinette actually loves is only the manufactured personality Adrien publicly projects as a child celebrity, and not his real self (since his real self is Cat Noir). Which in turn implies that any potential relationship between them would only lead to disaster. Say what you will about Harry Potter, but at least Ginny grew up from her celebrity crush of Harry, and began seeing him for who he truly was. Marinette has yet to do that.

[@ashebennett7726]

Exactly! I HATED this episode and this was when I was TRULY done with it all. I am so sick of Mari-Sue and the writing. She doesn’t love Adrien, just the idea of him. He’s “perfect” in her eyes. And I think the fact that he’s perfect is why she loves him rather than other traits that make him his own person. She’s no better than Gabriel and therefore she doesn’t deserve him.

[@sebaschan-uwu]

​@ThinkBoxChris you're off your rocker bro, how did you not see that

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Because i saw it as him learning being his true self as better than pretending to be more palatable. I had to learn that same lesson my whole life

[@faith-kj4pg]

My brain broke when I saw the spoilers for the season 5 finale. Even with Gabriel gone, Adrien is still being victimized. So long as Marinette upholds the lie that Gabriel was a hero, she contributes to Adrien's abuse. And let's be honest, nobody benefits from Gabriel being seen as a hero other than Gabriel. Marinette may believe that she's sparing Adrien's feelings, but she's not. If Adrien hates his father after learning the truth, then that is his right, and no one gets to take that choice from him. You can't tell the victim how to feel about their abuser. It's like a shittier version of "I only hurt you because I care." Adrien is robbed of any closure because painting his father as a hero invalidates any negative feelings he has toward Gabriel..And Marinette better pray the truth never comes out because that is the kinda lie to sink any marriage; and even result in no contact divorce. Imagine if, in Avatar the Last Airbender, Zuko never got to confront his father. Instead, Aang tells him, "Oh, your dad is gone, and he's a hero, and if you have any negative feelings about that, you're a shitty person, lol. Let's go get some tea." People would riot in the streets. All this bullshit about trust and Ladybug is the one with the dirt secrets

[@astxrism8236]

So correct. How down bad do you have to be to tell your boyfriend that his abusive dad is some kind of hero as if he should be proud of him? After he literally tried to force him to date someone he didn't want, neglected him, and locked him up like a prisoner. On top of the fact that it isn't true, she never told Adrien about his father's identity. He deserves so much better than what he got.

[@Blabou]

It's obvious that they made ladybug promise to lie about gabriel only to have the strongest argument to crush the adrienette couple in seaon 6 or 7. Let's not forget that Alya might know and she can't keep a secret from Nino.. Felix and Kagami know.... AND LILA knows, she also says in the final that she's eager to see Marinette when school starts. Thomas Astruc is against glorifying villains, that's also why Nathalie stands up to him before they both die !

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll]

I have a few words for Marinette. Let's give it everything we've got! It's punishment time!

[@altalt479]

THISSSSS But also can we talk about how stupid and ridiculous it is that Adrien/chat noir wasnt even present at this insanely important revelation in the show that dealt with his literal FATHER? I don't know what crack the writers were smoking to believe it would be a good idea to not have Adrien present in what could have been the most emotionally charged scene of the entire fkn show. I mean how are you gonna kill Gabe and not even let his son be a part of the ep 💀

[@BologneyT]

@@altalt479 That episode before the finale where the fought Collector was supposed to be that, but that fight did such a poor job of what it was supposed to do that no one even talks about it.

[@approachingetterath9959]

it's always boggling the mind how media that tries to be female-centric and empowering for girls and such ends up writing the most cliché, annoying, tropy female characters while the guys more often than not seem genuinely and interestingly written. it annoys me to no end how the only solution they have to bring out girl power is to put down men, rather than just, idk, writing female characters like humans and not caricatures. you can make a hyperfeminine character and still have her be a cool badass with flaws. you don't need to step on someone's toes to not be the damsel, which, surprise, is the real life of most women.

[@trolgeeeeee]

A main flaw on modern female characters is that most of the time the writers seem to be scared of adding any weaknesses or flaws or any problems in there lives that they have to get pass or beat There's a lot of male characters that are horribly written In the same way but most of male characters you see in stories are well written with flaws and problems which expands there character there's a lot of good written female characters with those traits specifically on old storie books

[@gstarlight6269]

That's why I appreciate characters like Reagan Ridley, from Inside Job. They're not making her look like the best girl, but just a normal girl with her own ambitions and they manage to make her really relatable.

[@eggmug562]

If you want to see a show full of great characters, male and female, full metal alchemist brotherhood. Or black lagoon.

[@kindmoonmushroom2146]

Раджу подивитися 12 королівств. Це справді старе аніме але розкриття жіночих персонажів там справді гарне

[@desi.2755]

Ngl I like her character cause u literally act just like her around someone I like

[@angeladvise05]

the portrayal of abuse in this show is abysmal. i remember using this show as an emotional crutch as a child specifically due to adrien's depiction as a victim. seeing him, through his hero persona, be granted relief from his father's control and the space to excert free will and experience the world he'd been isolated from for his entire life, while building his own unique identity, was so therapeutic and inspired me to hold out and hope for better days. it's been almost 8 years since then, it's a shame how downhill the writing went lol

[@theotherwayaround621]

Spoilers : He never confronted his father in the final battle, and after Gabriel fulfilled his wish, the world gets reset and Adrien, somehow, LOOK UP TO HIS FATHER

[@PikaLink91]

@@theotherwayaround621 Of course he doesn't confront his father... that would be character development, and western cartoons don't do that.

[@launacyko4523]

​​@@PikaLink91 Not all western cartoons lack character development. Just look up Avatar: The Last Airbender, the original Teen Titans series, or Infinity Train for example

[@PikaLink91]

@@launacyko4523 Fair enough, I was a bit quick there, but I feel they are mo so exceptions. Also I still cry myself to sleep over Infinity Trains wasted potential. I mean the first season was over in just 12 bloody episodes after which the MC's problems with her family were just magically resolved, plus she used cheatcodes to skip most of train, after which we shifted focus to her metallic mirror self in season 2, whom I gave less of a shit about because she was a shithead, thus I gave up on the show.

[@carelessdreamer]

@@PikaLink91There are plenty of good animated western shows, it’s just not easy to find them because a lot of streaming platforms are terrible about cancelling shows before they hit their peak. Also, all of the aforementioned shows are for kids. In adult animation, there’s way more depth. We have shows like Bojack, Arcane, Love Death and Robots, Invincible, and Inside Job. They have a wide range in tones and presentation, but all of them tend to have solid writing. Not to say that kids deserve worse content, but I can think of plenty of good kid shows as well. Adventure Time, Regular Show, The Owl House, and Clone Wars (after season 2). They’re all aimed at kids, but they’re handled well, and even their episodic nature doesn’t prevent them from having character arcs.

[@SparkTheKirin]

I just want to double down on the fact that Astruc regressed Chloe and actively admitted it was because you're not allowed to like Chloe. She's bad and she has to stay bad because that's what he wrote her to be. Man never seen Azula

[@ashebennett7726]

And I like Azula as a character. She’s interesting. Not because she’s bad, but because she is so well written. The psychology behind her character makes me like her more. People can like antagonist, it doesn’t make you a bad person. Because that’s what Thomas believes; if you like Chloe’s you’re a bully too or some bs like that. I love Chloe because of the fact that she’s a complex character. And breaking down the psychology of a character makes them more interesting. I didn’t just like Chloe because I felt bad for her. I like her because she has potential. Hell I can feel sorry for characters I don’t like.

[@SparkTheKirin]

@@ashebennett7726 Imagine if Chloe had experienced her friend group cut off in season 5 but not on a plane. Like she straight up changes and helps Marinette out, finally pushed to such an extreme that she can see the results of her life. Outright turns a 180 (with some stumbling) and decides she's going to be the one to ensure Mari and Adrien stay together, and that Adrien comes home. There is so much potential in that one tiny change from her learning Ladybug to simply becoming a supportive voice that Mari never expected

[@ashebennett7726]

@@SparkTheKirin almost like Zuko after he got rejected by a heartbroken Iroh? Because zuko’s relapse solidified his character arc and after losing the one person who believed in him, that became the kicker he needed to make things right. Not to mention, his sister’s manipulation was the final push to betray Iroh and Katara. Like how hawkmoth manipulated Chloe at her most vulnerable. For crying out loud, the guy tried to get Aang killed a second time and people were scared that was a point of no return for Zuko but it wasn’t. Because Zuko thought that capturing the avatar would restore his honor therefore making him lovable. But he came to the conclusion on his own that honor is suppose to be earned and love is unconditional. And Chloe wanted her mothers love as well as to be a superhero. But she doesn’t get either one that makes her feel loved so what’s the point? And people act like that’s wrong. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be loved, and sometimes people go about it the wrong way because they were likely raised to think that way. People forget that there’s a difference between not wanting to change and not knowing how to change or why. Everybody just abandoned Chloe including her own father, so why should she?

[@madamaonyx8844]

This reminds me of the writers for RWBY. When they don't want a character to be liked they'll outright sabotage said character to force the viewers to hate them.

[@JuniorGustabo]

​@@madamaonyx8844 Miraculous Ladybug, RWBY, High Guardian Spice and Voltron are examples of how not to write a story.

[@perrilewis180]

The way Marinette acts around Adrien shows that there were no women writers. She's basically his ready-made stepford wife. She's literally nothing without him

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Thats a very intresting way to put it

[@Andrex2311]

Reminder that Chloe is one of, if not the only, person to fight off being Akumatized. Something even miss perfect Marinette wasn't able to do.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Chole, alya and nino did it thats about it though

[@ivrydice0954]

There's also the mother of Marinette and the evil chick.

[@hyliahyrule4508]

​@@ThinkBoxChrisdon't forget the OG, Madame Bustier, Akuma f*cker number 1

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@hyliahyrule4508 what do you mean

[@hyliahyrule4508]

@@ThinkBoxChris She resisted being akumatized in a very stylish manner, which left me fangirling All while being pregnant as well! (She failed the second time but only because Lila sucks)

[@deathshop2172]

when the fandom makes genuinely better stories and content than the actual show, it's not necessarily a death rattle for the show, but it is a red flag for sure.

[@YumeBat]

it's more a red flag abt the writer than anything else tbh 💀

[@deathshop2172]

@@YumeBat yea, lol. I randomly got recommended some fan stuff a while back, absolutely loved the dynamic and characters, decided to look more into the actual show, and got pretty disappointed, lmao.

[@greenarrows2637]

I actually only found the show because I came across some fan comics and stories and got invested in the characters and dynamics and such. I only tried to watch the actual show after reading those, and I still haven't been able to get myself to sit through it all because of how disappointing and frustrating it can be

[@deathshop2172]

@@greenarrows2637 literally same

[@missrebel634]

If Chloe was really irredeemable, Astruc should've written her like that.

[@leonardolf6974]

‼️💯 this 💯‼️

[@EternityKingdomsHeadHoncho]

Not Astruc- Jeremy Zag. Zag had Chloe on the right track until he left to work on the movie… which gave Astruc the opportunity to rewrite her as the irredeemable monster he wants her to be seen as.

[@topgame2645]

​@@EternityKingdomsHeadHonchoand he did it ☺

[@richietozier7091]

One small thing I’d also like to bring up are the suits. When you compare Ladybug’s and Marinette’s, or Alya’s and Rena Rouge’s, the suits always seem to drastically shrink the waists of the girls. And another thing about the Shanghai Episode, I find it a bit messed up that the one time they have Marinette showing the slightest bit of interest in her hieritage, it’s only so she can stalk some guy to another country

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

I honestly think it would've been better if, in the Shanghai special, Marinette was actually going to Shanghai for a family reunion and Adrien just happened to be there

[@singularaii]

exactly bro, like what kind of plot is that, and how is adrien not surprised to see that his classmate is “supposedly” in shenghai too like, it makes no sense.

[@liaheben]

all is about Marinette obsesion. Adrien went to New York because Marinette discovered that Lila and Adrien could see each other, because Lila was staying in Paris too and offered to see him. Marinette was so jealous that she went to Adrien's house to talked to his dad, that thought that it could be a nice idea, because if Adrien was in NY he didn't have to hide him that he wasn't at the house.

[@171QA]

I'm so glad the movie corrected most of the problems the show had. Sure, the film isn't perfect but I prefer it WAY more than the show. It's shorter, has better developed characters, a pretty satisfying ending while still keeping it open, and the animation is GORGEOUS!

[@DaltonIzHere]

Funny how the movie (which was like an hour and a half long, if I’m correct) was able to execute and portray the characters better than the show with more than triple the runtime and much more time in between to sort things out.

[@DaltonIzHere]

@@rexsupreme1840 exactly. That’s why most good shows are better off ending at like Season 3 or 4. It lets them come up with new ideas and means the original show stays in it’s good light. SpongeBob is one of the only exceptions since the original series is still seen in a good light even considering how basically everything apart from the first two movies failed. Basically, it’s better for a show to end once the team is either perfectly happy with the ending or once they’ve run out of good ideas. Still, even by the logic I’ve set up, sometimes a show can still end up bad. Star VS, for instance, only had 4 seasons but ended up being the laughing stock of CN, since it wasn’t ended prematurely by homophobic people (like Steven Universe) but was ended by the team’s own volition and they were happy with the ending. They were happy with the main character committing mass genocide to stop mass genocide? How?

[@monoex]

I've never seen all of Miraculous, but the way you described Marinette's stalking... geez, to think Sonic fans in the 2010s thought Amy Rose was that bad. Marinette is unhinged 😭

[@ThinkBoxChris]

See i like amy and sonic, yeah thats a little weird in heros where she chases him around the world. But the difference is that over time the dynamic shifted hell in the story book games their dating and in more modern games/shows shes just part of the gang

[@clawcakes2]

the comparison to amy is actually really interesting to me. the deal with amy is that her behavior was annoying, but it was regarded as such by sonic and the narrative, and she eventually grew out of it and became a better person. she wasn't even actively malicious, just far too pushy. on the other hand, marinette is _literally stalking adrien_ and this is seen as cute and quirky instead of disturbing. everyone who knows about this behavior even encourages it.

[@90lancaster]

@@clawcakes2 Marinette took money for a 600 Euro plane ticket to Shanghai (I checked that is how much an on the day ticket from Paris to Shanghai cost in 2015/2016) and then she ditched her uncle to go stalk him some more. At no point is this ever brought up as a bad thing. To make matters worse she was also going to try to flich the equivalent of $10000 to get her earrings back from her uncle. Marinette is so very very far from being "nice" I feel. We are just expected to not notice she was thirsty as hell over Fei too for example... so she wasn't even being loyal to her crush while stalking she was obsessing over the new hot girl she found, (and she already isn't that far off doing that with Kagami & Alya as it is)

[@andre_601]

Even 2010 Amy would be creeped out by Marinette...

[@estebangutierrez160]

Harley Quinn would say something hypocritical.

[@katrinadiab1563]

41:50 I hate how they just threw away Chloe’s redemption out the window all because the director hates her?! BITCH HOW CAN YOU HATE YOUR OWN CREATION?!?!?!

[@ThinkBoxChris]

On some level i get hating a character i made but thats like a no fun kylo ren type of guy, not a school bully turned "on thin ice hero"

[@kotrena]

Looking at season 5, I think he hates Ladybug and its fandom as well. You need to really loathe your creation in order to make such an abomination of a finale

[@Blacknight6577]

Of course u can hate ur own character. If they’re a bad guy or just someone the create doesn’t like as a person then it’s possible to not like them at all, but that could also fuel more ideas to create them and how they’re portrayed. BUT for them to go through all of that for Chloe and then just not have her be a better person is stupid AF

[@nicolas._.2294]

​@@kotrenamore like hates adrien

[@Rose_Petals12]

For a guy who hates a character, he sure does commission for a lot of different designs for her.

[@siennaistrans]

This show is at its best when thomas astruc isn't present for production, and it's genuinely sad to see him stifle some of the best arcs in the show.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Yeah honestly more shows need someone slapping the creator's hands off the keyboard sometimes and this show is a prime example of it

[@siennaistrans]

@@ThinkBoxChris I think if the studio rehomed the IP and gave it to someone else, they could fix all the issues, it's not beyond saving, but another season with Tom at the helm will cripple it.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Oh fully. I say give it a decade and the reboot will be good

[@tamanakio7552]

Someone else has probably mentioned it already, but Qilin, the one episode about racism, made to demonstrate that some people are racist against asian people and that it's bad Was censored in france to remove all mentions of sabine's race. Instead of "you have no ticket + you're asian" it's just "you have no ticket" which completely undermines the point the episode was trying to make. Wow.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

To my knowledge no one has said that in the comments yet. Thats fucked up!

[@marigalante944]

"The ep is about racism" France: CENSOR IT!!! But fr like wtf? Why would you censor it? (O_O;)

[@filiaaut]

The explanation they gave, as reported by Astruc in a tweet, is that the target audience is really young (5 years old onwards), and the channel, TF1, doesn't want to teach them to distrust authority figures, so he agreed to remove the scene because he thought they had a point. I'm telling this from memory, so take it with a grain of salt. For reference, TF1 is the most viewed and most lucrative channel on French television. It has always been available for free and became the first French channel to ever be privatised in 1987. It is financed exclusively by adverts, and a former director of the group famously claimed that his job was to sell "available human brain time" (sorry for the awkward translation) to Coca Cola. Ever since the privatisation, the channel has been criticised for it's right wing bias. It is owned by Bouygues, a massive conglomerate with branches in construction, real estate and telecommunications.@@marigalante944

[@Blabou]

@@marigalante944 Because France has had little problems with the police these past years, and it's too much of a controversial matter now. Sad that it was censored but it was too risky for the TV channel.

[@liaheben]

I think the episode was really bad written.

[@idkwhat2nameheheh]

i don't exactly mind marinette's crepy behaviour towards adrien, but i really wish the show would take more time to address how this is a bad thing that you shouldn't do. i watched that show when i was twelve and her behaviour rubbed off on me. i was that creepy girl following my crush around school and obsessing over him because "well, if marinette does it and it's okay, that means i can do it too!"

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Thank you, this is exsactly what ive been trying to tell people. This stuff does affect kids and it should be handled better. Im glad you see the fualts now and im sorry this show wrapped your thinking that way

[@galaxychill9578]

i was kinda like that too in middle school yikes

[@Kyumifun]

On one hand you have stuff like censorship, where certain things are censored so kids wouldn't learn bad behaviors from these. And sure, sometimes the censorship is ridiculous but on tbe other hand, it does make sense, kids CAN get the wrong/twisted ideas from a flawed cartoon character. Marinette is that kind of a character with her insane obsesssion. "I do this bad thing, but this one video game tells a message that ppl can be flawed and that's okay, so i can be a creepy/trash person because there's this one character that is that way!"

[@Harumi27282]

Oh 🦌

[@xempororhxppyx]

Wow an example where it actually affected a kid? I mean, I knew the behavior was bad, but the fact that it could actually influence people?! What was Thomas thinking?!

[@ThePreciseClimber]

You know, how DID the Peacock Miraculous get damaged anyway? Fu dropped it, it landed in the snow, years later Gabe found it there. That's it. You'd think it would've been damaged in some big, epic battle or something.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Yeah thats just sad this show is so bad

[@greenstarlover1]

You think it was a consequence of a cataclysm, but no :(

[@DaltonIzHere]

@@ThinkBoxChrisMy personal ‘head canon’ is more like “These things aren’t invincible, but HELL are these things hard to break.” Shame that anything that makes sense is the opposite of what Thomas wants for the show.

[@MechaEmperor7000]

It would have been a great concept if Gabe just took the miraculouses in season 3's ending and season 4 was them going back in time to un-break the peacock miraculous.

[@estebangutierrez160]

As a wise head on a wall would say, "there's a simple explanation for that"

[@redtailarts101]

Chloe, a teenager who's bratty and acts out because she's been spoiled in stuff and not love, who just wants her mom's attention and love: irredeemable and evil!!! Gabriel Agreste who neglects his son and wants to destroy everything because he hasn't gotten over the death of his wife: so sad and sympathetic

[@intea_soul9839]

How ironic how Thomas hates Chloe but writes Kim as the male version of her but yet gets a miraculous, not all (Spoilers for season 5) he made where Gabby (nickname for Gabriel) and Andre, the worst dads possible as redeemable, Andre sending Chloe back to her abuser, making it as a "punishment" for the things that could prevented if he raised her better and not still be in love with his abuser wife, then also adopting Chloe's sister that isn't even his, while Gabby..yeah you'll see. Chloe writtened in season 4 and 5 as a horrible person and gave Marinette ptsd but completely forgot that KIM was in it as well, in fact, he was never sorry that he scared marinette badly to the point that she would have a panic attack, even saying "Chloe is the prettiest and funniest girl in the world" in front of his current gf who I'm surprised hasn't broken up with Kim yet. Yet, he's still seen as a "hero", Marinette still had given him a second chance when he had NEVER once tried to redeemed himself towards Marinette, and Marinette was happily to give him the monkey miraculous. Chloe can't be redeemed but Kim, Andre, and Gabby can..showing that Thomas's writing isn't just sexist towards men but also towards women. This show being sexist towards both genders is mind blowing and shows how creepy, weird, and horrible Thomas is. Don't get me started with the whole victim blaming and calling Chloe's relationship with her mom "not abusive" even though her mom bad talked to her and about her, forgetting her name every 5 seconds, even abandoning her when she was only a little girl, doesn't show love towards Chloe, wants to control Chloe's life, remembers Zoe's name more, and see's other kids more worthy and a lot better than her own birth daughter. The only family that Chloe has is basically her butler, who's the only one that knows how to calm her down by giving her bear plush (very cute btw) and tried to help her change her behavior, I hope the butler just take Chloe away from her awful parents and adopts her honestly. Same with Adrian's bodyguard. Also I'm so angry that Thomas decided to make Chloe hate on her only mother figure aka Miss Bustier despite showing it clearly that Chloe adores her and sees her as her own mother. Thomas honestly needs to just quit, get help, and stay away from the internet.

[@foufouslesbianass986]

I love how you were able to emphasise how bad chloe was abused without even mentioning her mother INSULTING HER on FCKING TELEVISION

[@commonsense9558]

What's ever terrible is that Thomas doesn't even consider this abuse. He even tries to compare it to other abusive situations of other characters like it's a sort of damn competition! Abuse is abuse! No matter which person has it more bad, it's still abuse!

[@intea_soul9839]

@@foufouslesbianass986I forgot about that😭

[@liaheben]

@@commonsense9558 she's rich, and that's a cure (his point)Chloe's lines in the show reduce to something like that.

[@liaheben]

Derision is a episode made to prove how bad Chloe is, and they used Kim, but they forgot (a plot hole in LB, surprise) that in Dark Blade we discovered that Kim is arachnophobic. They don't know how to manage the PSTD aspect, because Marinette has been in the pool several times, even with Kim,... She even falled in the pool from high in Mr Pidgeon 72 next to Adrien and she was fine. It was just Astruc hating Chloe.

[@bluejellyfish4983]

Chloe was my breaking point, she was literally growing and becoming a better person and a better friend to Adrian … she was becoming a hero! And then they ruined her and I can’t get over it. I can’t enjoy the show thinking about how ruined her character was especially when Lila was literally gonna take her place and be an actual villain

[@OverLorD768]

All because Thomas Astruc is a manchild who projects his insecurities on his characters. And because people were starting to like Chloe more than his favorite Marinette.

[@commonsense9558]

I definitely like Chloe more than Marinette. She isn't a pretend of a "good guy" like Marinette. Marinette had stalker tendencies which many people don't even point put about because "She's the hero!"

[@Rainjojo]

She doesn’t pretend to be a good person like most of the characters on the show, marinette is a literal stalker and has put down any girl that liked Adrien, Kagami most of all. Kagami deserved better along with Luka, their relationships with Marinette and Adrien should’ve been explored more during season 4. Thomas is just a narcissistic writer projecting his insecurities in the show while silencing everyone else who’s made the show better

[@daniaamir6047]

Even the main character Marinette is terribly written she never gets punished for her action

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Exsactly

[@d4red3v1l8]

And she’s supposed to be the role model for the young girls watching the show. 💀If kids see the things mari does they’d probably do them too

[@Bunnix01230]

yeah remember the episode when the firefighter helped mari spy on adrien?😂

[@ashebennett7726]

@@d4red3v1l8I don’t know how true this rumor is, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it were, but I heard a miraculous fan got a restraining order against her for copying marinette’s behavior.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@d4red3v1l8 thats what im worried about myself

[@69Cockette]

Unpopular opinion: Chloe, Lila, and Kagami would've been a powerful trio. Kagami and Lila both lie to be able to socialize. Chloe and Kagami both have shitty moms who try to fit them into certain molds (Lila's mom also seems pretty terrible due to her absence, but I think it's because she's too busy working to support the family financially to be able to emotionally support the family). Lila and Chloe both have absent parents and share a mutual disdain for Marinette. Not to mention, they'd be pretty unstoppable. Chloe, for all her notoriety, is extremely influential because of her parents' jobs. Lila is manipulative, plans her schemes pretty well, and she's highly ambitious. Kagami is smart, rational, and would be a good influence for the other two, and Lila could probably manipulate her mom into letting her go out more often. Not to mention, they all need therapy. Everyone in this show does.

[@liaheben]

Lila has three mothers (no explanation)

[@k4tzxbeel0vedz]

girlie lila and chloe are the most annoying and unlikable characters ever😭 kagami doesnt deserve to be grouped in with them;

[@liaheben]

Alix was going to be part of the trio with Chloe and Sabrina

[@mcnugget677]

I can’t describe in words how refreshing it was to leave the fan base of this show, I remember how frustrating it was to binge episode after episode and feeling like the writers were adding as many new things as they could in a desperate attempt to lengthen the story. Now that I’ve discovered some new shows that have already ended like Gravity Falls and The Good Place, having a show actually end and wrap everything up nicely felt like a miracle. (No pun intended) The wasted potential of this show is insane.

[@Blabou]

I really enjoyed The good place and I understand your point, I think it's hard to end a good series decently while not creating frustrations. But why do you think miraculous has already wasted it's potential ?

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

Thomas Austruc is basically a French Butch Hartman. He is a adult manchild.

[@halcyon.x]

Exactly

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll]

Sounds about right.

[@kociarzultimate384]

Definition of a manchild already requires being an adult

[@NATALIEBATCHLER0192]

How is butch hartman a manchild? I'm not a fan of him.just confused

[@Cosmic_Espeon]

Bastille Day is like Independence Day in America. It’s basically the anniversary of when the Bastille was attacked, what led to the French Revolution, which is now a celebrated holiday in France despite the fact that the commanding general got his head cut off and put on a pike. The French are brutal bro

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Mmm learn something new every day

[@Cosmic_Espeon]

@@ThinkBoxChrishappy to have taught you something new. French history is something I like to look into so I’m happy to share a bit with people. Banger video by the way. Still hate how they bastardized Chloe, I’ll never forgot AssTruck for this.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@Cosmic_Espeon. No thank you i really appreciate that, i like learning. The line itself was a throw away joke but im glad you wanted to help teach others. And thank you i worked really hard on this thing for like a year

[@Cosmic_Espeon]

@@ThinkBoxChris I can see how much dedication you put into it. It really explains everything wrong with this show down to it’s awful creator. I look forward to seeing your thoughts on Season 5 because holy hell was that a clusterfuck

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@Cosmic_Espeon. Thanks ill do my best

[@Erinyes]

People being capable of change is what really got me into this show. I adored Chloe. I love blond haired bullies that are actually dorks inside but have been molded to be spoiled by their parents. However, when provided a different environment to be nurtured in and a role model to look up, they become more honest... Then hahahahaha... Yeah... burned that development to the ground. It was consistent with the akumatize. People aren't their anger. They can overcome negative feelings. Very sad about what happened ti this show.

[@PhoebeTheFairy56]

It sounds like you'd probably be a fan of Flash Thompson in Ultimate Spider-Man (the show) since he fits that description and he gets a redemption arc that _doesn't_ get undone

[@izy2weird]

The show also fails at explaining why bug and cat can't know each other's identity but forces it to be bad every time.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

The writers, thats the answer

[@SpagettiSpeltWrong]

I think one of the most incredible scenes showcasing Chloe's urightfully shafted character is when Gabriel pulls Adrien out of school. Chloe is GENUINELY devisated. Those are real tears. She's actually upset that she wont get to see the one person she was actually friends with, that being Adrien. I actually felt bad for her because, knowing her home life, this was definitely heartbreaking for her. It shows that beneath her to exterior there is (or was) an incredibly troubled and lonely girl who doesn't have any real friends besides Adrien. Edit: Luka wouldve been a far better love intrest for Adrien. Just sayin

[@lilsnacks6908]

While I have no disrespect for the fandom as they are making far better content than the show ever has, it always amazed me that the show got a mainstream fandom at all. I couldn't get past the first few episodes without feeling like the show was shallow and repetitive, I'm left wondering how so many people were able to look past that until actual plot started happening.

[@sailor_ray]

I was a kid back then XD

[@nickyves_art]

yeah, a lot of people were kids back when we first started watching it. i saw it for the first time in disneyland paris when i was 11. it played on the tv in my cabin repeatedly (only disney channels allowed!!) and since it was in french, i had no idea what was going on, i just liked the colourful suits and fun animation lol. after that, i kinda put the bad story aside for nostalgia’s sake, like most fans

[@YumeBat]

Adrian. deadass Chat Noir was THE ONLY reason i ever got to season 2, or even watched this show at all, but i coudnt finish it cus i liked him too much to keep seeing this shit...

[@mysticjumbles3917]

For me it was the hype of waiting for it since it was first conceptualized as the anime and the rumor that if the 3d show did well, the anime would be produced.

[@nadiahapsari3359]

Back then,I didn't think much of it and were just having fun.The concept of french,superhero-inspired show captivates me.However,over time I got bored,and after watching some video essay about it,I realized how repetitive it is. I quitted,but still came back for it to mindlessly watch it.But honestly,it gets tiring because nothing actually interesting happens.And when it do in s5,it's disappoinment. tldr: Thought it's fun and has interesting concept,but the story NEVER improves

[@DaltonIzHere]

I’m pretty sure if a bunch of people teamed up to make their own fan version of this show, it’d be like 10x better.

[@Thehjhhhhhggttyg]

For real though as long as they don’t make, Chloe’s redemption arc fail It would already be 1000 times better.

[@DaltonIzHere]

@@Thehjhhhhhggttyg exactly. If you want an irredeemable villain, maybe DON’T MAKE IT A TEENAGER. An irredeemable villain should be an adult character so you understand something: By this point, they already know what they’re doing. Chloe and Lila are bitches, yes. But it doesn’t mean they can’t change to be better people. Lila might not but there’s still a chance considering she’s like, what, 14? In my personal fan interpretation, the villains aren’t 14 year olds, Chloe isn’t evil, just a snobby bully who *can change.* Lila still lies but it’s because she’s a teen who learnt it from her mother, so *she can change.* The real villains are Mothshade/Dr. Dylan Nocturnn and Chameleon. Dylan is the takeover of Hawkmoth, mostly since Hawkmoth gets his ass beaten by Chameleon and Dylan gets the Moth and Peacock. Chameleon is an original character with an original Miraculous, obvious which one he has. Also, the 5 main Miraculous in the universe are the Ladybug, Black Cat, Bunny, Chameleon and the Crane. Ladybug: Creation Black Cat: Destruction Crane: Balance Bunny: Time Chameleon: Change The Crane used to be a Scarab before I realised how little Scarabs have to do with Balance when a Crane is associated with balance. The reason why the Ladybug, Cat and Crane seem weaker when used by the main heroes (there are three main heroes) is because their full potential hasn’t been reached yet. Bunny can travel through time and alternate universes while the Chameleon can shapeshift into anyone and anything with their abilities. And since the proper holders of these two are adults, they don’t have a limitation. So basically, the villains are adults who have their paths set already due to their actions. Ironic that the Chameleon, the Miraculous associated with *Change* is an irredeemable villain.

[@Thehjhhhhhggttyg]

@@DaltonIzHere true

[@user-oi2ef1fc9o]

It would have been really interesting if marinette and Adrien really were opposites in the way that Adrien strives for freedom, I wish marinette strived for more structure. While her parents are supper supportive in anything she does it seems like her parents will forgive anything she does because they know she’s a good kid which is why I wish the show would make an effort to show that while letting your child have freedom is good too much freedom is also not the best thing either. Which I feel would also make sense why marinette as ladybug is very rule driven. I don’t know if this made sense but yeah…

[@ThinkBoxChris]

I love that idea

[@marcelinauy9037]

That would mean that Thomas writes a flaw on his self-insert and the self insert of his ex.

[@secretsuperstars1153]

Emily coming back is treated as an afterthought. We don’t even see her come back the entire show we are told bringing back Emily is important to Gabriel we don’t see her reunion with her son. We don’t see her come back to life she’s just there. She doesn’t even speak a word. This finale just proves that she was never important in the first place. The entire show is just a waste of time now.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Thats awful like she really is a plot point through and through thats so stupid

[@williamweide2956]

I mean, she is literally a woman shoved in a fridge until the very end. What did you expect? I'm amazed they spent so long talking about how the wish is the bad ending only to have it all end with a wish and a happy ending

[@blueotter5954]

The biggest or point they should have cared for, dropped like an ugly vase.

[@dessindenfer1253]

Because its not Emilie, its Amelie

[@feelstora3]

@@dessindenfer1253 This wouldn't change anything. Even if he did it for Nathalie. They made sure to emphasize over and over again what consequences making a wish would make, re-writing history and all. Just for them to end it like this? They never once mentioned the possibility of the person making the wish choosing the sacrifice. So this is all pointless. Also all the build-up for certain characters (especially Adrien) to finally speak up to his father who became more horrible just for him to redeem himself life this without any build-up to that at all? On the contrary. Just alone in season 5 his character became worse and worse. I wouldn't have had a problem with this type of ending if 1.) they were building up to it more, explaining some major plot-holes. 2.) Adrien/Cat Noir would have been involved in the finale. Because let's be real: this was HIS arc more than Marinette's. On top of that they made it seem like a happy ending, giving the impression the best thing Marinette can do is to lie to her boyfriend about his father and his deeds when Adrien deserves the truth. That's horrible. It will only teach children they can be bad without consequences and will even be celebrated for it.

[@Sammy_The_Umbreon]

What annoys me is that this show has every chance to succeed. Good premise, good ideas, good animation, (some) good characters and interesting lore. It's failing purely in its execution of the plot and characters. Adrien is basically involved in all the plot threads yet barely used as a character and is isolated from everything that's happening, while Marinette is the narratives favourite child but has no stakes in the plot at all??? This show makes me mad in so many ways. Edit: Honestly, I'm a good chunk into the video, and i have to say, it's very well made and adresses literally all my thoughts on the show. And i mean, all my thoughts. (Also, thank you for the Lukadrien and Kagaminette validation. Honestly wish they were endgame instead of Adrienette). Really like how this video is put together, and i am honestly subscribing cause this is quality content.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Yeah it sucks the show didnt capitalize on anything. Thank you for the sub and the compliment i really try my best on these. And i love your icon!

[@viviennemorgan7217]

yeah screw adrienette

[@ashebennett7726]

Honestly, I do wish that’s where they were going with the story instead of Adrienette. Lukadrien and Kagaminette sounds more believable. Adrien has more chemistry with Luka despite not being around him as much as well as Kagami and Marinette. And it can also help to tell the difference between love and infatuation. And as I always said, SHOW don’t tell. But they always shoehorn in how Adrien and Mari are just “made” for each other yet they don’t show it. Five season and eight years that they were “just friends” even though they never hang out like friends, Mari can’t utter any words like some idiot, Mari stalks him and breaks how many laws doing so, marinette can’t act normal around Adrien, and Adrien is nice to everyone and yet they seem to think that him being nice to marinette and giving her the time of the day means they’re meant to be. If that were case, then I guess Adrien being in poly relationship is canon. I think I just gave someone an idea for a webtoon comic. But all of a sudden, they’re a couple. And it’s too late to care and it doesn’t natural. Even when they do some ups and downs in a relationship correctly, it still doesn’t feel earned. It feels like when Mari became guardian. That didn’t feel earned either since Mari is always being rewarded for her failures. She even fails at being in a proper relationship with adrien by stalking him rather than just having a normal conversation with the guy and getting to know him like a normal person would get to know their crush. Before SVTFOE was ruined both story and character wise, Marco was forced to confess to his longtime crush, Jackie Lynn Thomas, the way he confessed was sweet as he said “my crush is Jackie, but what does that even mean. I put her on this high pedestal. So do I like the image of her or for who she really is. I mean, I like her enough to know that she deserves someone who wants to get to know her. Which is definitely me.” And Jackie didn’t reject him or accept his confession, she just wasn’t sure which is really realistic. If they just didn’t make Marinette a stalker but someone who just put Adrien on a high pedestal like what Marco did with Jackie in the sleepover episode and do that in season two, that would’ve been a good start. Because what did Marinette ever like about Adrien other than his image and him being nice. Because all they’ve ever shown was that she liked the idea of Adrien rather than who he is considering how she constantly rejected him as cat noir and it would’ve made it more believable that she really did like him if she did like cat noir but had doubts and uncertainties. But no, they just keep showing why these two shouldn’t be together. Do I believe they like each other? No. But I do believe that they believe is all I’m saying. And I would find it more believable if Lukadrein and Kagaminette were canon since Kagami could help an indecisive person like Marinette go for the gold and Marinette could help Kagami to be more open. Total opposites who complement each other. Same with Lukadrein. And awkward, introverted teen and a more extroverted, laid back teen.

[@viviennemorgan7217]

@@ashebennett7726 yeah but kagami wants marinette to be with adrien but zoenette will be Better.

[@ashebennett7726]

@@viviennemorgan7217 I guess? I’ll take anything that isn’t adrienette if I’m being honest.

[@frgal1336]

13:19 the worst part is that astruc himself says the spots in her vision DON’T EXIST. It isn’t how she sees, it’s just to demonstrate her creative path of thought to us. So basically, its a part of her personality already given to us - her creativity as a fashion designer. The characters it’s miraculously given to? Some are INFAMOUS FOR THEIR LACK OF CREATIVITY. ADRIEN IS SHOWN AS MISTER BUG TO USE SIMPLE SOLUTIONS. He should NOT be able to think like that. Marinette’s mother has never been shown to be creative - but she has been shown to have some martial skills. Instead - she’s just got Marinette’s way of thinking.

[@lexyshannon9428]

Honestly, the greatest irony of this show is how the creator has a self-insert to represent himself, when it feels like he was always present in the show through Hawk Moth. I mean, seriously. An adult figure who watches from a distance, making people evil for his own purposes, gets mad when things don't work out the way he wants them to, and then monologues (aka twitter posts) about his frustrations without ever changing his approach. His values are shallow and have a double-standard, and that makes him take everything personally whenever a flaw in that mindset becomes known (like... EVERY time Hawk Moth is defeated). In the end, he is determined to have everything done his way regardless of how much sense it makes in the end. So, yeah... Hawk Moth. 💀

[@ThinkBoxChris]

That and hes also Marinettes father in the show

[@lexyshannon9428]

@@ThinkBoxChris NO 💀

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Yeah its sad, but true ive seen the tweets, im sorry x's myself

[@MJJ_2009]

@@ThinkBoxChrisWdym?? Is tom based off astruc 🤮

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@MJ-uh6pu yep, i mean his names tom and is maries dad. He even admited it on twitter to the point her mom is named and nodled his ex girlfriend

[@PhoenixoftheGays]

So I noticed a bit of a mistake. Adrien was never sent to a private elementary school with Chloe, he was homeschooled his entire life.

[@DolphyShark]

One of my biggest gripes with this show is that they have 10 different episodes saying marinette and adrien couldn't end up together only for them to well... end up together

[@inplane9970]

I think the main purpose of those 10 different scenarios is to show it can't happen "too quick," which is even worse when you realize they're just dragging the show on.

[@shuesbaanh]

Wasn't it more about them not knowing that they are ladybug and cat noir?

[@emm6101]

Honestly even her liking adrian seemed pretty shallow because he was a model.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Thats a fair point but her crush happens before she knows that mostly so it has the tiniest bit of nuance to ir

[@jaydedepato6995]

The "Miraculous Ladybug is a showed I tried so hard to like" is something I've been saying from the very beginning. It really does have such potential, all wasted by incompetent handling. You articulated what I've been feeling for years perfectly!

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Thank you im glad to hear

[@JackieQueenz]

Fun fact: they changed Alya’s body type when she transforms-

[@dark_quEEnisCringe]

Ikr like I was so confused as a kid like are they the same person?

[@ClaudetteVioletta]

it reminds me of Danny Phantom with Valerie. As a civillian she's kinda chubby, but as a ghost hunter she's skinny as fuck

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@ClaudetteVioletta that is an amazing comparison i hadnt fully registered till now. Wow they did her so dirty

[@cathrienkeysha3111]

Tomas is so full of himself that he put himself in the show not once, but TWICE. Once as the "tortured" and "under appreciated" artist as you pointed out and once as Tom, the genius and famous baker and father of the main character. Marinette was the imaginary daughter of him and one of his old girlfriends, a Chinese immigrant who went by the name "Sabine". Ring any bells? Nino's name is from a tv show about nerd life called "No Life" that when spoken with proper French accent and quicky is really close to a homonym to "Nino Lahiffe". He's also from Northern Africa (Morocco I think it was?), not Hispanic. I don't think there ARE any Hispanic characters in the show, except maybe Knight Owl or the rare background character in the NY special. And Alya and her family are from the Caribbean not Egypt. Their whole family are named after popular jazz singers, that's why she has the name she does. Because black folk be into jazz, I guess. The family from Egypt is Alix and the Kubdels. You know, the brother of whom was Pharaoh? Yeah, THAT Egyptian family. Also, on the topic of the Eagle Miraculous, to add insult to injury not only is Jess a horrible stereotype, but eagles don't even have anything to do with the concept of "liberty" in native cultures. That's a European construct that they forced to be associated with the eagle because America was supposed to be the "land of liberty" to the immigrants and the bald eagle was the national animal of the USA.

[@MechaEmperor7000]

The entire United Heroez film was just a trainwreck of Unfortunate Implications. From them naming the only black main character "Uncanny Valley" to the implication that in this universe a Frenchman *literally stole the concept of Freedom from the Native Americans* to give the colonials an edge in the war, it's kind of amazing this hasn't caused more of an uproar.

[@Blabou]

I thought Tom and Sabine were the real life baker owners of the paris bakery ? Like literaly a french baker and his chinese wife. There's a picture of them on internet. I'm confused, are you sure about what you are stating ?

[@cathrienkeysha3111]

@@Blabou He tweeted it himself on Nov 12, 2015 @ 7:46PM according to my 5 minute google search where the tweet was the very top thing on the results list.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

@@MechaEmperor7000 The sad thing is that a legitimately good story is hiding in the United Heroez (What is with the Z at the end?). The way I'd do it is that instead of a bunch of superheroes just existing with explanation, they're the result of a burned-out comic book artist that are brought to life by her akumatization. However, this ends up causing destruction across NYC and it's up to Ladybug, Cat Noir, and the daughters of the comic book artists to stop her and her malicious creations. I'd also add more on the Guardians of the World, where we find out that each continent has a corresponding Miracle Box of both real and mystical animals.

[@Um_236]

I hate how Adrien was left out and basically used as an accessory throughout the show even though his kwami could literally destroy anything they wanted

[@ur_local_uncanny_artist]

It always seems like the best shows get the least amount of episodes to tell the most well written story ever, But the worst shows get the most episodes to tell the most dog shit story like, it's so aggravating 😑😒

[@ThinkBoxChris]

God thats so true

[@Kakuyawolf3456]

It's all about da money MONEY!!!

[@TOBCYT]

Marinette is what happens when the side character of the show, who keeps inserting themselves into the main story by any means necessary, actually succeeds and becomes the new main character of the story that had nothing to do with them in the first place. Everything is sidelined to keep Mari in the story in any possible way and we can-not have an episode that doesn’t include MARINETTE in any way whatsoever. It’s like the Steven Universe Perspective issue all over again; where we didn’t get a story or episode that doesn’t include Steven in some way.

[@ziggy7324]

how do u want an episode without her when she literally is the guardian of the miraculous and has to capture the Akuma💀

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@ziggy7324 maybe give chat the earings, or alya, or zoe or maybe idk let other people be able to fix the damage? Like its bent around her and only her thats not good writing. Batman isnt a one size fits all solution, neither is spiderman, or wonder woman, or the flash. They all need help at one point or another or are only part of the answer. She IS the answer and it gets real old real fast

[@ziggy7324]

@@ThinkBoxChris Chat was ladybug and did so Alya

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@ziggy7324 what

[@ziggy7324]

@@ThinkBoxChris i meant Chat noir did transform in Ladybug and Alya in Scarabella

[@thenameisx7907]

Every time I see this show and its fandom, I just get really saddened seeing the potential this show could've reached. When it started it felt really promising, the first few episodes had some really interesting shots, the idea felt fresh, and the mysteries the show had, such as Hawkmoth, the will-they-won't-they, and the secret identities made it feel worthwhile tuning in each episode. But, I wanna say after Season 2 or 3, things just got too stale. Plotlines were either going nowhere or being strung out too long, once enjoyable characters either became flanderized or hit with a stupid stick, and the once intriuging mysteries felt more like they were clinging for reasons to label the show as one with an overarching storyline. There's been another show that I've been rewatching, and its done almost everything this show does, but a million times better: The Spectacular Spider-Man. That show had just about everything Ladybug wanted to do, it had really intriuging mysteries that kept you second guessing yourself, good romance subplots that dealt with teen drama, and a protagonist that had flaws and learned from them. Fuck, they even were on the track of nailing the abusive parenting themes better than the Agreste storyline ever did with how Norman abused and used Harry, and the effects it begun to take on him (before it was canceled). My main hope at this point is that they reboot Ladybug, after that absolute Wattpad-tier shitstorm of a Season 5 Finale the show really has nothing much to do anymore. I do see it realistically happening, the show (and brand as a whole) reeks of generational cartoon syndrome where they redo the series every generation to sell a whole new line of merch (think MLP or TMNT). If they do, I sincerely hope its with a new writing team (keep Astruc as far away from the writer's room as they can) and hone in on the inspirations of Ladybug (Spider-Man and Sailor Moon), and look into the past shows they did. See what fans liked and didn't like about the iterations of those characters, hell, they can even do the same for this Ladybug show, and improve upon it. If done right, Miraculous could easily be one of the greatest superhero cartoons made, the ideas they have are super intriguing, but as it is now? It's just a hollow shell that feels like more of a corporate brand than any kinda art with something to say or make you feel, and that's the biggest shame.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Honestly couldn't have said it better myself

[@user-hm7yv4rh6l]

Ok I respect what he says but fuc everybody else

[@shockwavespider3942]

@@ThinkBoxChris is Marvel or Disney going to bring back spectacular Spider-Man?

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@shockwavespider3942 i dont think so. Tbh i never watched thar

[@thenameisx7907]

@@ThinkBoxChris would definitely recommend it. Only 26 episodes and it’s one of the greatest superhero shows made. It basically did everything Miraculous failed to do in 5 seasons in just 2.

[@BoyFromBelgium99]

*My main criticism for Miraculous Ladybug:* 1. Animation (Too many different qualities of animation especially in Season 1 & 2, would've been better with the same people) 2. Worldbuilding (Only a couple of buildings in Paris are shown, with a show of so many episodes I would've liked to see more) 3. Plot (Give us a backstory in Season 1 about how Gabriel found the Butterfly & Peacock and the backstory of Emilie) 4. Marinette (They should've shifted the love square in Season 4, not in Season 5. That way you can set up Adrien & Marinette more) 5. Félix (He should've been introduced in Season 2, with more episodes in Season 4 and Season 5, missed more backstory of him) 6. Chloe (She should've shifted from a bully to a superhero so she could've become Queen Bee in Season 4 & Season 5) 7. Sabrina (She should've left Chloe after a couple of episodes in Season 2 or at the end of Season 1 so she can help Chloe) 8. Classmates (The classmates should've not trusted Lila blindly whenever she lied, they should've doubted her more) 9. Adrien not finding out his father was Hawkmoth, Shadowmoth & Monarch is sad. He'll never know what his father did. 10. Consequences of actions (I get it, it's a kids show so you want to make everything good at the end but come on, it isn't realistic) 11. Leaks & releases (Just before Season 5 the show's plot was leaked, Gloob could release episodes so early for so long was weird)

[@SP1RALLED]

honestly, the way you portrayed the love dynamic with cat noir and ladybug was so good. As someone who was lead on by an old love interest, this is actually made me reflect on some stuff they did. Thank you for making this, and this is absolutely amazing.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Thank you, that means a lot espically since ive been lead on myself a lot. Im sorry it happened to you though thats never fun to deal with

[@superjpg123]

Thomas is probably writing the story based on what he thinks is the most subversive plot point, bending everything else backwards to fit around that plot point, and doesn't know how to respond professionally to being told that a bad idea is just a bad idea. I wanted to hope that the show would discard these bad ideas but at this point nothing short of a DC style crisis reboot will be able to fully clean up the mess.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Honestly wouldnt suprise me

[@WouldntWeather]

You know, there seems to be a reoccurring problem in the entertainment industry where producers/showrunners/writers/execs/etc will make poor writing decisions that everyone hates and then proceed to blame their audience for not enjoying it/ for the product failing. Looking at you, Disney. Anyway, it’s just this really weird and egotistical mentality where the show or movie staff think they know better than the audience and then proceed to shit on them, tell them they suck and to continue consuming their product. Then they act shocked when people revolt against them or drop them. Like… yeah, if you treat people like shit and don’t give the audience what they want, you will lose audience respect. I don’t know why that’s such a difficult concept to grasp. It should be obvious. Like what ever happened to “the customer is always right”? Now these days the entertainment industry feels like the entertainment version of Amy’s baking company. And Astruct is a shining example of arrogant showrunners acting entitled to the fan’s respect whilst actively shitting on them.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

People dont like being told their wrong so lash out and companies are the same way

[@WouldntWeather]

@@ThinkBoxChris Companies have thrown professionalism out the window with the introduction of social media and thinking that it’s socially acceptable to engage in flame wars with fans apparently.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@mannystella yep and it sucks

[@WouldntWeather]

@@sharlacewilliams9797 This is a completely different context. We’re not talking about the service industry, we’re talking entertainment. If a producer or a showrunner makes crap content and ignores what the fans are actually asking for then they can’t be surprised when people start to lose interest. Same thing can be said about the service industry. If you act like Amy’s Baking Company, acting like you’re superior to the people you’re serving and treating your customers like trash and you insist on giving them stuff that they didn’t order because you know better then you can expect people to have a pretty negative opinion towards your establishment. Overall, it’s not black and white, there should be a sense of mutual respect on both sides.

[@DarkVideogamer]

​@sharlacewilliams9797 there is a context to the quote thought. It's been horrendously shortened. The full phrase is "The Customer is always right, in matters of taste." Which means if there's demand for the ugly hat you don't think anyone would buy, who are you to tell the customer "no you can't buy the hat cause it's ugly." So it can have a meaning in the context of media, the audience generally knows what they want to see, especially if it's a storyline/thread/scene or idea that was brought up or promised to the audience.

[@caitlinmccloud7431]

Making Chloe "irredeemable" was an awful choice. You got fans out there writing essays defending her being awful and never changing like people CAN change. I was bullied a lot and yeah some of my bullies never grow up and become shitty people and others change, grow up and say sorry when you run into them 5 years later. You cant just show her taking steps to change and be a hero then just say she irredeemable. Its this weird hatred towards her that people had to angelica in rugrats. Why are you hating on a fictional character so much?

[@BratzRockAngels]

Chloe would've been the perfect example that people who were huge bullies growing up can change.

[@Acacius1992]

Was bullied my whole school life by alot of people all the same. Not a single one of those assholes ever apologized anything.

[@azureenby397]

@@Acacius1992 Perhaps, but in the show that show that Chloe could (and probably would) change since she became Queen Bee. I was also bullied and they never apologized but I never saw them grow (contrary to Chloe)

[@saigge16]

Something too I feel should always be stated when talking about the predicament with Chloe's writing is that at the time of her going through her well-written character arc, at that time in the show, she was the ONLY CHARACTER to EVER reject a akuma (at least on-screen) and it was a very powerful and earned moment as well and really showed the audience how capable she was of change. It is a shame that it became a novelty of the show since we've seen other characters do it more than once now in the shows run. I honestly feel like if they did not take her down this route of regression she would have been a phenomenal character for the team, especially because we had seen LADYBUG HERSELF FAIL TO RESIST AN AKUMA in a later episode where she was 2 seconds away from giving up her miraculous and was only stopped bc of plot contrivance

[@ThinkBoxChris]

I agree with you, but alya, nino and sabine all shook off their akumas in season 4

[@saigge16]

@@ThinkBoxChris ? Thats what I said “it became a novelty of the show since we’ve seen other characters do it more than once now in the shows run”, she was the first and only one to do it for a decent period of time in the early seasons of the show

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Oh sorry my brain glitched i had a rough night and was replying half asleep when i woke up

[@sofr790]

@saigge16 Thomas can't bear to let chloe have this one skill that even mari can't do because lb supposedly cant get akumatised(plot) he gave it around like candy

[@sofr790]

@saigge16 Thomas can't bear to let chloe have this one skill that even mari can't do because lb supposedly cant get akumatised(plot) he gave it around like candy

[@ashebennett7726]

This is why so many people are walking away from this show. And rightfully so. The thing is, there are people talking about how the awakening movie did everything for the fans in over an hour than Thomas would ever do in five seasons and Thomas says “the movie gives the fans what they want but MY show gives the fans what they need”. And his explanations are just so moronic and as usual, makes no sense. Because having pay off and closure IS what the fans NEED not desire and Thomas refuses to give us this. Like Thomas would ever care about the fans since this is more about HIS desires, not the fans needs for pay off, closure and fulfilling narrative promises. Another thing that grinds my gears is how Thomas claims this is a ‘feminist’ show, and yet a bully who is female is “irredeemable” while a literal universal terrorist is “sympathetic”. The worst Chloe has ever done was nearly wreck a train. Look at all the bs Gabriel has done simply because he can’t be a grown up and move on with his life and care for his own son. If anyone other than Thomas wrote this show, they wouldn’t write GABRIEL to be sympathetic over Chloe, a literal child! “So remember kids, every girl is a superhero. But if they’re mean and have issues, they’re worse than any supervillain.” Logical (sarcasm). And it’s insulting how they handle abuse. Thomas claims that Chloe and Adrien weren’t abused. What does he think abuse is? He wouldn’t know abuse if it literally slapped him in the face. Abuse doesn’t always have to be physical. So let me get this straight, if teenagers who are still developing and don’t know how to handle a situation perfectly are just brats who needs to be put in their place, but a bunch of immature grown ups get off Scott free for abusing said teenagers or worse just because they’re sad!? WTAF Thomas! And I hate how marinette basically gaslights Adrien by basically saying his dad was never abusive. That’s Thomas’ words. And not only is it insulting that Adrien arc doesn’t come full circle or gets any pay off and every narrative promise with him is broken, but he’s basically robbed of any rights to have his own personal feelings and opinions on his own family matters. That makes marinette just about as bad as Adrien’s controlling father if she keeps all of this from him and tells him his dad is a “hero” and won’t tell him the truth and allow him the freedom to have any say or feelings when it’s HIS family matters. And I agree with the whole flirting vs stalking. That really is comparing stealing cookies to robbing a whole bank. Especially when she commits literal crimes and Adrien only flirts when she flirts too. And we’re suppose to see more faults in him than the girl role model? Not in a “feminist” show I don’t. And I’m a woman thinking the same things here. I don’t consider myself a feminist, but I do know that feminism is about EQUALITY not superiority or giving a woman a free pass for murder compared to a man who throws a single punch. I’m watching reruns of ATLA. I don’t care what Thomas says, that show is a million times better than what he writes in this crap. Because at least it’s not disappointing. These kids deserve better. The fans deserve better.

[@lemonnoob6557]

Spot On, this show really is not a feminist show it's a poor excuse for this awful bomb of a show. It portrays double standards because I think everyone knows that if the roles reversed and Adrien started acting as much as a stalker as Marinette, people would be causing a lot of chaos online and Thomas would be in lots of twitter mentions. Ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

[@ashebennett7726]

@@lemonnoob6557 lol I like what you did there. And I agree. Stalking is a serious crime while flirting can be expressive and playful and isn’t really illegal so long as the flirt doesn’t do anything harmful with it. And ladybug has been flirty with cat noir at times. Only when roles reverse do people care. This is how it looks. Marinette: *commits federal crimes because she’s obsessed with a boy who she sees as a possession and knows no boundaries and legit creeps the boy out* lmao! She’s so funny! Just look how quirky and cute she is! She’s so silly. It’s just normal teen girl behavior. Why won’t he realize her love for him!? Cat noir: *harmless flirting and knows boundaries even when ladybug flirts sometimes and she’s just gets simply annoyed* BURN HIM AT STAKE!!!!!! REEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! 😡🤬🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 Just because something isn’t uncommon, doesn’t mean it’s “normal teen girl behavior”. It’s actually offensive when this is how we’re portrayed in shows like this. Truly ridiculous, utterly ridiculous. 😤

[@ManderzArl]

The movie was lacking. Didnt get any lucky charm and got a luke warm cataclysm. Could have cut most of the songs to flesh out the story more. I was confused if marinette was the new kid in school or her classmates had amnesia.

[@ashebennett7726]

@@ManderzArl’s an hour and a half. What do you expect? Still more fleshed out than whatever thomas accomplished in eight years. Eight years and that’s all he gives us. So insulting. He doesn’t give af about us even those who stayed loyal to the series. And the songs are soothing that bring me back to sanity after Thomas f*cked it up. As a musical enthusiast, I feel personally attacked. Honestly, can’t stop listening to them. If Jeremy was able to make a series, he’d do way better. Improve it even. I prefer him over Asstruc. So idc if it’s perfect or not, I just want Gabriel to be better as a father, for Gabriel to move on and focus on being a father, Adrien to be more assertive, Adrien to have a bit more attention, closure with his father, Marinette to not be some creep who stalks her obsession and sabotages his relationships with other girls like some possessive yandere, Chloe to be treated with more respect, and for their relationship to actually be healthy and built on trust like knowing their identities. Because why oh why would you ever love someone if you don’t know who they are let alone trust or make sacrifices for them? It doesn’t have to be perfect, I just want some improvement. Some. Even a little makes a difference and makes people happy. And I’ll take anything over this shit show any day.

[@ManderzArl]

@@ashebennett7726 Lol I wasn't sticking up for the shyte show astruc has run into the ground. If there was a reboot. marinette would need an overhaul, Adrien needs to be involved way more than just a love interest, zoe needs to go, Chloe should be redeemed and Luka needs more screen time. astruc feminist take with this show is toxic to girls everywhere. They scream for equality. Yet there's hardly any equality in movie and tv show. Both suck.

[@maybe8985]

I agree with you on so many points : as a black french girl, i can tell France, especially Paris is incredibly diverse, and has many people from different cultures and backgrounds. Just one thing, Nino is Moroccan, so North African, Alya is Martiniquan, Max is Malian 👍🏾

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Intresting didnt know that the show never really goes into its secondary cast like that. I did google ot though when i wrote this so maybe the page i looked at was wrong

[@Tea_Noire]

Yeah idk why there are so little black, or just dark-skinned POC in general when a lot of black people in America fled to France in the 20th century to escape the horrific racism they faced here. Like some of history's biggest celebs like Josephine Baker headlined in France, so idk why everyone on Miraculous' cast lacks melanin 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@cryaboutit7499]

France is getting pretty racist tho, yeesh

[@cryaboutit7499]

@@Tea_Noire what? Why would you flee to a white country to escape racist white people in America? I don’t think that’s true 😂

[@fishsteak3246]

@@Tea_NoireBecause white french people are the indigenous native population? It makes sense that most of them would be white. Would you expect india to force diversity hires for white/black/whatever people and complain that theres too many indian people?

[@LegitMay]

Honestly, Gabriel seems irredeemable than Chloe. Chloe had potential of having a redemption arc but that was thrown out the bag, Gabriel literally neglected his own son and didn’t consider his own feelings because he was so busy terrorising people as Hawkmoth to take the miraculouses to wish Emilie to come back alive because he can’t live without her.

[@theplayfulparody2183]

Miraculous makes me so sad because it's a universe with so much potential, has all these interesting *bases*, a nearly perfect monster-of-the-week format with how Hawk Moth's power works, and then it trips five seconds after the starting line because they forgot to tie their shoelaces, and then tied them together and kept trying to run the rest of the marathon.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Pretty much yeah, but that just makes me angry as hell because how did they even do that

[@neerajoshi5473]

This show is the perfect example of how not to write a show

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Yep, and honestly i dont get why its popular besides it being hated

[@danhair]

@@ThinkBoxChrisKids. kids like cute animation and super powers and not overthinking. The French producers kind of discovered that cartoons about teenage girls are popular with girls if they look cute and popular with boys if she is cute. Totally Spies comes to mind.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@danhair i loved totally spies as a kid. But funny you mention that as thomas is apperently doing the remake of that

[@danhair]

@@ThinkBoxChris I had no idea HE was the one doing that. Thanks for the info. Looks like they are using him Fox Used Family Guy's Seth MacFarlane to make multiple shows.

[@nicolas._.2294]

​@@danhairbut totally spies actually has good plot and is consistent Or I am just blinded by nostalgia, love that show anyway

[@frgal1336]

43:12 we also need to talk about the fact that her multi mouse costume is objectively better than her ladybug one??? Like. In sheer terms of colour and fashion, her multi mouse outfit is a perfect match for her. It’s minimalistic, has grey and pink, colours that already go together incredibly, contrasted with the darkness of her hair that makes her eyes POP. It is HER outfit, and the ladybug one just cannot compare.

[@AmayaHinageshi]

1:12:40 This episode still makes me laugh when I think about it because it essentially implies that regardless of what happens, no matter how bad or serious things might seem, so long as Bunnix doesn't show up everything is as it should be. If it weren't, Bunnix would just... randomly appear and help Marinette get the timeline back on track. It's essentially telling the audience that if anything were to go wrong that isn't _supposed_ to go wrong, then she knows about it and will ultimately intervene. Naturally Thomas doesn't play by his own rules, so it doesn't really matter but... It's just bad writing.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Thats a fantastic point

[@rhaeasoul8531]

Honestly I could’ve forgiven everything but Jesus Christ that finale. Just wow. That was terrible.

[@mainingkaeyaismylife]

Fr I hated it 😂😂😂 like the finale is literally about Monarch and his fight and win to rewrite the world... AND ADRIAN ISNT EVEN IN THE EPISODE ABOUT HIS FAMILY HISTORY 💀💅👏

[@rhaeasoul8531]

It should’ve been so easy too; even power rangers has done the whole “characters family member is the villain”. Before this finale I never thought there was a way to fuck up this simple trope so hard. I’ve noticed but forgiven / excused everything else but I can’t justify continuing to watch after this. Even if they had a terrible execution of the idea you could’ve still argued that they did deliver on the setup.

[@astxrism8236]

I think terrible is an understatement.

[@ladypool1404]

The 3D is fine but the show would look prettier in 2D. The anime style we had for the first concept was amazing, colorful and full of energy. Sure Chat noir looked a bit older than Ladybug but his human formed looked cool. A cold guy who has no friends but will slowly opens his heart to Marinette and falls for Ladybug; that's cute! The action was fun too; Ladybug's costume was beautiful and her mask was elegant. Gabriel looked really menacing and smart, was hidden in the shadows. I really hope we'll get an anime version of this show AND development for the two heroes. Chat noir was rejected in the final of season 5 for no good reasons, it was cruel and disrespectful towards his fans ☹Making Marinette trusting the villain was not stupid for Astruc apparently. It made more sense to put that then Chat fighting Monarch and discovering who he is which could put good drama. A huge missed opportunity to make the final good.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

I think the budget would have killed the anime version for it to move that much with all thst detail itd be so bad twords the end

[@pagedmaj]

@@ThinkBoxChris here's an idea, change the design, keep the aesthetic. If shows like Sailor Moon and Tokyo Mew Mew can do it, so can Lady Bug.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

@pagedmaj now thats an idea i can get behind

[@pagedmaj]

@@ThinkBoxChris if only 😮‍💨

[@evanwebb6374]

According to the original concept, Adrien was originally going to be Felix (who ended up being included as Adriens cousin as a cameo/reference), and Marinette was actually Bridget. In the original plot the black Cat Miraculous actually cursed Felix and the only way to get rid of said curse was if he could get the holder of the Ladybug Miraculous to fall in love with him, but while trying to get her to fall in love with him, he ends up developing real romantic feelings for her instead. It's already a way more interesting love plot than in Miraculous in my opinion and honestly would have been cute to watch play out, I wish they had stuck with it

[@MeemahSN]

I really wish they went through with Chloe's redemption. It's probably one of my biggest gripes with the show, her not getting a proper redemption. Chloe is such an interesting character, and is one of the most multi-dimensional in Miraculous. The amount of development she got before her arc was shafted was more than Marinette has received in five seasons. Chloe could have been a really interesting character had Astruc not doubled down on her antagonistic qualities. Considering the movie is planned to get a sequel, if Chloe gets the bee miraculous, I'm hoping Zag goes through with her redemption arc.

[@JabamiLain]

I found a fanfic called "Queen Redux" (yes, the title is what it implies). However, here's what makes it good. While the first two chapters make clear the redemption premise was the initial main cause, onwards, the author makes an effort to balance Astruc's vision with what he lacked in the first place from season 2 forward. Good writing. Basically, the fanfic is somewhat the show's retell/slight retell from "Style Queen" forward, if it had good writing and Chloé (and the rest of the Bourgeouis) didn't suffer character assassination. Others exist, but fot the moment, this is the one I'm gonna focus on reading for the foreseeable future. I truly recommend it because, among other things such as less childish writing, Ladybug and Chat Noir, after "Anansi", start getting more balanced in power. Read it when you have the chance.

[@10Bendog]

I remember mentioning this somewhere else, but following Miraculous felt like an abusive relationship. I got hooked on the akumatized villains and the general premise of the show, so that's why I started watching. But as you follow the show, the cracks start to make themselves more apparent the further you go, but you continue watching because you think it'll get better and it sometimes shows you that it can (several of my Top 10 favorite episodes come from Season 4 and 5, even though I think Season 2 was its peak). But then, just after it gets your hopes up, it shows its true colors and hurts you for caring for it. The disappointment grows more and more, but you still hang on there, because you see the potential and want to stick with it to the end. Well, the Season 5 finale was my breaking point. The start of the season was so good too, especially the episode "Passion", but (mild spoilers if you've yet to finish it), it absolutely shits the bed in the last 3 or 4 episodes. I cannot understate how they managed to take every single bad decision for that finale. Good luck when you go to review that season yourself, because you're gonna need it.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

That is a hauntingly accurate way to put this oddly enough

[@astxrism8236]

The finale is what happens when you make stupidly selfish decisions for a show for absolutely no good reason.

[@couchgang5239]

A two hour video essay from a channel I've never seen before for a show I've only seen in passing once because my girlfriend's nephew watches it. Sign me up

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Haha gotta love how that algorithm works huh? Glad you found us hope youll stick around

[@thecrazygooseofyourdreams4785]

Lmao same

[@Lucky_Lyra]

Marinette is a stalker ❤ Adrien is Blind ❤ Gabe is abusive ❤ Ladybug is rude ❤ Chat noir is best ❤ Tikki is there for lessons ❤ Plagg is a best cheese boy ❤

[@lizpaperdeco]

"Miraculous is terribly written, horribly handled mess of characters, cliches and so many bad decisions." Miraculous Fandom: *sigh* we know :(

[@laraprisma6381]

everything you said about chloie is exactly how i feel about her! she started out as a boring and annoying preppy bully that even my mother didn't like, but in the second season we saw how her mother's abscence, Andre's spoiling and the obvious mental abuse she suffers from her mother that I started to understand how she is like that, after this I just started to imagine what it would be like with her slowly redeeming herself, realizing that she will never be happy if she continues to act like her mother, that she is happiest with those who bring her a little joy like Adrian and Sabrina! but NOPE! Thomas had to screw it up because he "hates Chloe!" one of the reasons to retcon an entire character that I've seen in media!! that's why I say fanfics are better than the show's writing!

[@SpikedKirby]

Chloe is my favorite type of character, the bully who gets a redemption and then keeps using the things that made them a bully but for positive things. The show writers really screwed up by doing a full 360 with her personality

[@laraprisma6381]

@@groudonvert7286 The problem is that the show just didn't want to develop her properly. My rewrite treats her as a character who is wrong and needs to change if she doesn't want to be alone, which she eventually does because of her actions. It is by being alone and seeing the result of two selfish actions that she realizes that she is not the center of attention, and slowly begins to change, even if at first she found it ridiculous. The kwamis who choose heroes, and Pollen saw something in her that was worthy of the Miraculous, what it was they weren't sure. Chloe only decides to become Queen Bee to try to impress her mother (she doesn't reveal her identity to the public) but tries to do everything alone until she realizes that she needs the other heroes, and ends up not only becoming a better heroine, but also a better person when she begins to realize the importance of doing good things without expecting anything in return. She wouldn't change her personality, she would still be an elegant diva who loves fashion and pretty things, but she would also try to expand more of her tastes to move away from being a mini Awdre, Since she was only the way she was because she wanted to be like her mother. She would also try to mend her relationships with Sabrina, Adrian and even Kin, and maybe even be friendlier with Marinette but wouldn't consider her a friend (at least not yet) You don't have to agree with me on these ideas to rewrite her, I just see her wasted potential and want to fix that.

[@laraprisma6381]

@@groudonvert7286 knowing that Thomas hates her with all the hate in his heart... I doubt that will happen...

[@laraprisma6381]

@@groudonvert7286 me included! XD

[@iluvlumity]

i hate how much the show changed directions. most of the fans (including me years ago) was sold on the love square and adrien angst because his dad is the villain. 8 years later, none of these plot points are really resolved, we didn't get any reveals people were waiting for. marinette and adrien still don't know about each other's identities, adrien didn't get to know his dad was a villain this whole time, and the show is not about these characters anymore.

[@Thecheezything]

The mishandling of Chloe’s arch is just so sad. It would have been so cool and nuanced to have the bully of this show to learn and grow and change and become a hero and slowly learn to be a better person and that’s where she was heading until her arch just went straight down the toilet. No depth allowed 😔😔😔😔

[@assssaaasasass]

You know,it's funny that they could have used Chloe helping Hawkmoth as part of her redemption, like some sort of a relapse moment because she didn't get what she wanted and then be like "I messed up BADLY, how I fix this?!?" afterwards and the next season have her working hard to show that she knows she messed up but wants to fix it. Because no redemption arc is linear or easy. But my biggest issue is: who is this show for at the end of the day? Because it began like a kid friendly show, for little girls mostly, but then it begins to cater to older audiences by putting dark and too complex themes.

[@akgwriting9481]

Kinda like Zuko

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

It really says a lot about the series that Fanfiction writers can handle the characters better.

[@DaltonIzHere]

Sometimes, it’s because the fanfic writers have their own original ideas. But this case is because there original ideas were portrayed so fucking horrifically that even a 5 year old could write better.

[@PikaLink91]

My biggest problem with the series is that Chloe is the reason for literally 90% of all akumatizations, as she is the one walking around being an awful person who breaks everyone's spirits and in turn gives Hawk Moth plenty of villain material... and she NEVER has to answer for it. Like, the show has obviously made it its gimmick that that is HER sticks, that that is her entire role. But wouldn't it be more interesting if other factors played in to make the people of Paris depressed, instead of always relying on this ONE character who is an absolute shithole?

[@lespena3722]

I would also like to point out that Marinette also is also to blame for a lot of the akumatizations as well but that’s never brought up.

[@PikaLink91]

@@lespena3722Oh she's an absolutely horrible character as well and her awkwardness and clumsiness when she's around Adrian quickly got annoying. There.

[@lespena3722]

@@PikaLink91 and the fact that she just never seems to change. She is truly no hero and the worst role model. (To be frank this cartoon shows a lot of double standards as well, if a guy acted and did a lot of stuff that marinette did he would have been in huge trouble and punished, marinette on the other hand is encouraged and even praised, it is quite disgusting)

[@PikaLink91]

@@lespena3722Women in general get off easier than men with many things, and are, by social norms and double standards, allowed severeal things men aren't, or that men would get scoffed for.

[@lespena3722]

@@PikaLink91 I say it goes both ways. But these days it has been taken too far. So far it makes me ashamed cause no thanks to these women it makes normal common sense good women look bad. I feel bad behavior should not be indulged or encouraged or put up in a pedestal.

[@sstarshroom]

im still grieving the fact the PV version didnt come out instead, the storyline was so much better overall+ the animation was more appealing 🤷‍♀️

[@caelum_eti_2007]

Frrr that’s why I watch the Office AU made by emzurl instead as it’s exactly based on Miraculous PV version

[@teslashark]

Pigeon Man is funnier and the Mime is scarier, not to mention Old Moth!

[@gabieldenstierna]

I jumped ship after season 3 and am VERY happy I did because what in the unholy hell is this mess??? Laughed my ass off when I realised Astruc wrote himself into the show as if he's a 2010 fanfiction author (note: some self-inserts are good, some are bad, and Astruc's belongs to the latter)

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Honestly that was a smart move. And yeah his self inserts are bad

[@Angie_lol]

I’ll be honest, I’m pretty sure the movie is what the series should’ve been, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Gabriel and Adriens relationship

[@stormydiariez3449]

Fun fact: in one of the recent episodes it is stated that it has been 9 months. Which makes even less sense than it being at one year.

[@ThinkBoxChris]

Yeah that makes no sense. Why make it so tigjt of a turn around

[@zuza3377]

I wanna write it somewhere and Idk. I just like this video. Luka is my favorite character and he has a potential to be in the S tier of deepness. Let's analyze him shall we? Luka is the music guy, the therapist friend, he carries everyone's problems on his back (even his parents, so awesome). From the dialogue I can guess Luka's been doing it for years. He works I guess a part time job as a delivery boy. He (for some reason) is Juleka's twin but Juleka failed a year. He's been fatherless for 16 years of his life. He lives on a houseboat illegally with his mom and twin sister. He's been/still is Viperion the weaker time traveler. Also he must have serious brain damage as he decided to date Marinette. Now let's go even deeper. 1. Childhood. Luka's childhood wasn't the happiest. As he said himself he never knew his dad and Anarka said nothing and not having a parent can make a really big brain damage. Anarka probably wasn't that amazing of a mother. She clearly has angry issues and doesn't respect the law. The Coffee family has probably been living there since always but then again Sabrina's dad is such a pain he would throw Anarka in jail years ago. Either way, having your house being literally illegal must be pretty stressful. Back to Anraka's angry issues, she said that she never felt like throwing Luka and Juleka off the board so let's all clap for her. She doesn't feel like abusing her kids. Truly majestic in this show. However she is pretty hot-headed towards anyone else. During growing up Anarka probably had a lot of outbursts and Luka and Juleka both witnessed it and they just respond differently to those memories. Juleka became closed and afraid to speak up and Luka is trying to stay as calm as possible and holds everything inside. Also taking into account that Anarka hates Jagged so much I'm pretty sure she had lost herself until once when Luka was asking for him (I know, Luka has a big poster of him on the wall. I'll comment on it later.) The angry issues explained now the not respecting rules and YES I will be calling it that since that's what she did in the Capitan Hardrock. Since Anarka's true love is freedom I'm pretty sure she had a stress-free type of parenting, she pretty much gave Luka and Juleka no rules and let them do whatever since childhood. Since Luka was meant to be the older brother until writers changed their mind last second as always I think it's pretty safe to assume that he's the older twin. Luka is clearly the more social twin and since there was no father figure in his life and Anarka had pretty much the "Do whatever as long as you don't die!" mindset Luka almost naturally took the role of the parent in the family. Years later it developed in him being the brother figure to everyone he comes across and being treated as a therapist. Also I can't say for every single dubbing but in my country's dub, after Anarka throws Bob Roth off the boat for the second time Luka says "M-Mom..." and he says it like that. His voice was trembling a bit and Anarka replicas "I know, I have to stop throwing people of the boat." so he and Juleka have been exposed to this kind of thing for years. Also in Crocoduel Juleka literally hides herself behind a window when Anarka aggressively asks her a question so I guess that Anarka unintentionally made her kids scared of her. 2. Daddy issues. (This counts to childhood but it's a bigger issue so congrats Jagged.) As I said earlier Luka didn't have anyone father like for the entirety of his childhood and almost his entire teenagehood. According to Miraculous Fandom Wiki, Jagged is probably american so I guess we know where he's been for the past sixteen years (also a first suspect for being Zoe's dad...wait how's Zoe again?). Luka was pretty much forced to be the father in his home; he had to fulfill this role of parenthood from a young age and all because Jagged values his crocodile more than his family. I think we all can agree that Jagged never checked on his family in his lifetime so he also wasn't giving them any money. Luka was a Jagged fan for years and finding out he was his son all along must have really crushed him. I do believe that the only reason Jagged went back is because Truth yeeted him off the roof. Also as we know akuma victims forget everything after so he was probably doubly shocked from the break-up and the fact that his daddy decided to bring milk out of the blue. Is Luka hugging it out with Jagged is realistic? No. Does it make sense for his character? Yes. Why? We'll get to that. Anyway now that Jagged is in Coffee family life the dynamics in the house changed. We don't know how often Jagged visits but regardless if every single visit ends up with arguing with Anarka, that's a pretty stressful environment. Considering the fact that Luka is the reason Jagged came back it must be even more messed up for him. We saw that after Crocoduel Jagged and Anarka still fight, they don't respect their kids wishes (awesome parenting I tell you). Jagged favors Luka probably because again Luka was the one who confronted him. Also Luka got on that trip with Jagged and Penny and I don't know how it must have felt for him to see that his dad basically has a completely different life. Since Jagged and Anarka argue every time they see each other they probably want to win their children over. The Coffee parents don't talk about the past so this must be even more stressful and confusing because they can either choose sides or try to play the parent. Also getting recruited to a magical cult...I'm sure that didn't do anything, right? 3. Part-time job. Luka has a part-time job as a delivery boy. Considering Anarka's personality and the fact that she never even mentioned where she works (which is weird because even the parents of one dimensional characters have a contributed career) I think that Anarka doesn't have a full-time job. Now there's two scenarios: either Anarka switches jobs frequently or they just mostly live off the government support for single parents. In France you can have a part time job at the age of 16 or sometimes 14 so I think that being the delivery boy counts to that 'sometimes 14' label. Luka's work has been shown two times so this plot wasn't abandoned. Since Anarka most likely doesn't have a full-time job I guess that Luka's part-time job is the stable source of money. Assuming being the delivery boy is allowed at 14 Luka's been working for around two years. This only adds to Luka being the most responsible in his family as Jagged wasn't paying them money since he didn't care and Anarka doesn't seem like the most responsible person Luka's been the main family feeder. Continuation in the comment

[@zuza3377]

4. Viperion. Luka is Viperion and holds the Miraculous of the Snake. Given that this is the better power of time travel (since it's less op) this can do a lot of damage to one's mentality. Luka's been exposed to more than one scenario and it didn't leave him unscared. He knows both of the identities which must have left him really conflicted. He could finally understand why Marinette broke up with him and it probably left him feeling terrible that he insisted on knowing the truth. He also knows Adrien's identity now I don't know if he heard what their wishes were but regardless he saw that Adrien's wish was bland as he was looking the exact same. If he heard what Adrien said then it means he knows that Adrien's life is even sadder. Even though I hate Ephemeral it did left one thing, it left Luka with the memory of what happens after the wish. I think that because when we returned back in time Viperion's icon had a worried face so he probably did have memories of the conversation with Sass. Also I think that's pretty much the reason Gabriel sensed Luka's fear in Migration, because Luka knew what would happen if the wish was made. Now that Luka is trained for the guardian or something he must feel even bigger pressure of being the most capable and knowing both identities. Now it didn't make sense that Luka didn't just tell Su Han in Ephemeral that he knows but that's more due to his personality I believe, he hates lying and he trusts Marinette. 5. Personality. A lot of people say that Luka doesn't have personality besides Marinette and his guitar which isn't true. His personality just isn't loud. Luka is the voice of reason. He's calm, observant, honest, selfless, sweet-heart with passion for music but it's not like he is always happy and shiny. He feels negative emotions but he doesn't allow them (or rather himself) to take over him. This probably is Luka's response to his childhood. He often saw Anarka blow up with emotions and he remembers that bad feeling he had and also how it affected Juleka so now he bottles everything inside him and always stays calm. Luka got used to being the father figure and since he's carrying he always listens to everyone's problems, putting himself in the shadows. Want examples? He gave up his guitar because it made Marinette happy. He wanted to make sure that Adrien is safe from Desperada. He was helping I think Wayhem out during Optigami. In all these situations he valued others and their well-being over his own including Migration. Luka willingly left Paris for the safety of everyone in the city. Luka listens and thinks before acting so he is everyone's shoulder to cry on and though he doesn't seem to mind it. It must be tiring listening to everyone's problems anyday. If Migration was supposed to be Luka's regular day and four people came here for advice. He must be very trustworthy as he never told anyone's secret. Luka also values truth and honesty. Again probably due to his childhood with Anarka keeping the secret of his father from him. That's why he was so hurt when Mairnette didn't want to tell him where she was going. He was hurt as he hated the feeling of not being trustworthy. That's why he hates Bob Roth as he lied to him. Him bottling everything up makes him even more dangerous when he's akumatized. Notice how the two times he's been akumatized he was very forceful and aggressive so opposite of his normal personality. It's also not like Luka isn't strong willed. In Truth and Migration he tried to fight back one time failing. In Silencer it was his very first time akumatized plus it wasn't just about him but also about his friends. Now that Luka knows his dad it seems really unrealistic that he would just hug it out. Is it unrealistic? Yes but it does make sense for his character. Luka isn't the type of person to let his emotions out. He never puts himself first and he doesn't want more stress so it does make sense for him to just hug Jagged and call it a day. Luka is also used to dealing with things on his own therefore he's more mature and calm. 6. Music metaphors. Luka is a musical person. Music is his way of expressing himself but his musical part has been a bit over exaggerated to be more visible (saying as a musical person myself). Jagged is/was Luka's favorite musician and since Anarka loves her kids I'm pretty sure she just accepted that Luka likes him. Luka is probably a self-learner at least partially as well so he just makes a few notes with his guitar most of the time. Luka's musical metaphors might seem weird but I guess it's just his nice way of saying that something is wrong. So Marinette having a lot of instruments playing inside her = she has a lot of not worked out issues. Adrien having a sad piano overshadowing his true sound = Adrien is depressed. Luka playing on his guitar is comforting for him as we saw in Crocoduel the first thing he did to comfort himself is play on his guitar. It's not like the first thing Luka does when he meets someone is "Your inner melody sounds like this!" he addressed himself that it was weird for him to know what was in Mairnette's heart. Music is Luka's coping mechanism, his safe zone, sounds are the most important thing for him. Jesus, I've written an essay... In conclusion: Anarka and Jagged congratulations you can join Tom and Sabine in being good and terrible parents at the same time. Luka has potential to be one of the most intriguing characters but he's not Marinette so we don't care! It's a well known fact that the only thing Astruc cares about is his virtual daughter Marinette and making Chloe a human version of pure evil :)

[@jenjen3137]

Chat Blanc was definitely a cash grab that was handled very poorly, smh it had so much potential. 🤦‍♀️ And Marinette/Ladybug is literally Joe Goldberg from YOU. 😬