Mixing Sound for 2 People While Recording

[@billmohr9989]

Of course top notch as always Curtis. I like how you explain things. You present things very simply and cleanly without talking down to the audience.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Bill!

[@marcushawkinsmusic]

I've been following your channel for years! I marched drum corps (DCI) so I was excited to hear that interview! Keep up the great work

[@curtisjudd]

Hey Marcus, another DCI marcher! My daughter is a huge fan so thanks for marching and inspiring kids!

[@WupperVideo]

Great tutorial. Im working at a public radio broadcaster in Germany and we are mixing it, like you explained it. Sometimes we place the two persons in the stereo panorama too.

[@curtisjudd]

Excellent, thanks!

[@stonedcoldchillerk7780]

Your video was exactly what I was looking for! Great explanations! Thank you!!!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks.

[@alantuttphotography]

This is exactly what I do when mixing sound for a live event. For a recording, I never worry about mixing while recording, because it seems easy enough (i.e. - doesn't take much time) to do in post. Nice to hear that there's an automatic option in the higher-end recorders, though.

[@curtisjudd]

Same here. For recording, I mostly do the mix in post. But active mixing while recording can be useful for cases where a piece needs to turn around quickly and there isn't a lot of budget for post audio. Fortunately, that's pretty rare in my work.

[@anthonyroberts9232]

Wow I actually performed with our & Bugle Corps and competed in DCI in the USA & Canada as well. I am a proffecional audio recording engineer/producer and do sound as well for short film productions etc and own my own Zoom F4 etc and work on location in NYC using my devices and your tips are very usefull.

[@curtisjudd]

👍🎺

[@RallenMan]

Nice demo of manual and auto mixing. You have explained this to a degree previously but I get this question "why mix when recording, isn't all that done in post?" Mixing is done in post on narrative features but even there a good real-time mix is needed for on-set performance monitoring, video playback, and for daily screenings where no post has been applied. Reality TV type productions get huge benefit from good mixing on set, and this is where auto-mixing can save the day and the sound guy. Real-time mixing is also needed when doing audio for a panel discussion where a PA system is reinforcing the audio to the audience. Having a minimum number of open mics can dramatically increase gain before feedback in those situations.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks! All good details on why to mix while recording.

[@3BMEP]

Curtis, I really enjoy your work. I've been looking for a two-mic interview "auto ducking" feature, and you're the first person I've seen say such things exist. What is the most economical and most compact way of getting this capability to use with my GH5?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Hugh, thanks! Unfortunately, auto mixing, especially on small devices connected to cameras is still an opening in the market. For now, this is only found in more expensive or larger solutions. The Sound Devices 633 is the smallest device I am aware of that has this feature and is not exactly economical for non-audio-pros at $3300 USD. There are software solutions such as the Waves Dugan Automixer Plugin which is "only" $600 USD but runs on a computer with a digital audio workstation app so isn't great in terms of syncing up in realtime with a camera. Wish I had better news for you but hopefully we'll see Zoom or Sound Devices take this on in their more affordable units before too long.

[@3BMEP]

I was afraid you were going to say that, Curtis. Sigh. Does the Dugan plugin work with FCPX?

[@curtisjudd]

I'll give it a try and find out. :)

[@3BMEP]

Curtis Judd Thank you!

[@SoundSpeeding]

Curtis Judd the Behringer XR18 is pretty cheap and has automixing too! But then you have that size problem...

[@GaryStockton]

That's a super excellent description of the technique Curtis. It seems like it would be a bit stressful capturing during a live event, but good that the zoom recorder captures an ISO recording of each mic.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, definitely can be stressful depending on the pace of the panel/interview. But good option if you can't spend a lot of time in post and some of the mixing veterans can seem to have developed a sixth sense and manage to pull it of. Maybe some day we can achieve that!

[@RKRK-ci2vv]

Very nice video...very useful info Curtis

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks rk.

[@vtobias1]

Great video as usual Curtis. The auto mixing function on the Sound Devices unit is impressive. I'd not seen that before - very clever.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks! Yes, I trust that feature more than I trust myself to get it right. :)

[@BushidoPhoto]

Nice work again Curtis, I always love your videos! In my studio, I use an Alesis 3630 Compressor and set the noise gate so the 2 mic's turn off automatically and don't pick up the second person talking. Obviously, this is a rack mount and it's less portable, but it can be done with a rack case if needed recording direct to the computer with a Tascam external USB recorder like the 2x2 or 4x4. Do you know if there is a portable compressor/noise gate that's more compact than something like my Alesis? I have all of this audio recording gear because I'm also a musician and record my band. :-)

[@DONXMEN]

OMG! I marched in DCI with the Crossmen Drum and Bugle Corp 1996-1999. It's so weird when other people know what that is. GOOD STUFF!

[@curtisjudd]

Hey! DCI is very cool and it is great to meet someone who marched with the Crossmen! My daughter has big aspirations to march in DCI. Which instrument do you play?

[@DONXMEN]

I marched in the Crossmen colorguard 96-99 and now I'm a movement/colorguard judge for the activity. I am finishing grad school at NYU Tisch School of the Arts earning my degree in Dance with a concentration in Dance and New Media. I've been making/editing dance films for the past two years. Your channel has helped improve my production skills. Your work that you do on your channels is so helpful. You're the real deal! I'm developing a curriculum at a university to introduce dancers to filmmakers. I would love to be able to collab some sort of class that combines dancers with using gimbles or DSLR cameras.

[@curtisjudd]

That sounds like a lot of fun! Best wishes on your degree and filming dance!

[@JoseSorianoPhotography]

Great video! the best source to learn audio for video!!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Jose.

[@brianmillerspeaks]

Curtis, thanks so much for these videos. I'm running a podcast using two independent lav mics for on-site interviews (a pair of DR10Ls) that I'm mixing in post. Automating the faders in post is no problem when it's one person at a time, but when we're both speaking over each other or laughing, I'm really struggling with phase and comb issues. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Brian, sitting farther apart may help a bit.

[@Miniac]

Still using the Ursa? It has what I can only describe as a filmic softness to it. Looks like the movie Her. Maybe that's your doing in post though. Great video, as usual!

[@curtisjudd]

+Miniac yes, I'm loving the Ursa Mini Pro. Still lots to learn on grading but it produces files that let you do almost anything you could want.

[@oupekha]

Hi Curtis Judd. Very helpful video. You always have a very good very clear honest review. I have been following your channel for a few years. I have a question I have two people one speaks English and the other translates to Vietnamese they have to sit about 1ft away (from shoulder to shoulder ) both look straight to the camera. One of them has a louder voice than the other. Mic bleed and facing are always the issue . Pro tool alway crashed and I have to deal the bear microphones. I have 2 lav mic 2Dynamic mic 1 shot gun mic and Sound Device 744T What do you recommend ? should I use Dynamic mic? stead of shot gun mic? Because it will pick only the sound that close to the mic Is there any function in Sound Device that can help? Or anything to do in Adobe Audition?

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, If you can use a dynamic mic within 5 cm of each person, that should help a lot.

[@GFFmatt]

So helpful! Thanks, Curtis!

[@curtisjudd]

You're welcome!

[@RyonRykal]

Very great video! Useful information in there as usual. Greetings from Germany.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Ryon! Greetings from the Rocky Mountains in the US.

[@SPDTDL]

Hi Curtis, do you think auto mixing will make it into the new sound devices mix pre 3 / 6 ? Or will it always be reserved for the pro equipment?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi, I'd be surprised if the MixPre ever get auto mixing, but I was surprised that Sound Devices released the MixPre so anything could happen. Here's why I'm skeptical that we'll get auto mixing on the MixPre series: 1) At the very least, Dugan auto mixing is a proprietary algorithm and requires licensing. To keep the cost of the MixPres down, we will likely not see Dugan auto mixing and 2) I suspect that auto mixing requires a lot of the processor of the recorder and I'm not sure that those included in the MixPre will have enough power to do auto mixing. But like I said, I could be surprised (and totally wrong and would be delighted to be that wrong!)

[@SPDTDL]

Thanks Curtis, very informative.

[@WillDylan]

will be great even if it is a paid firmware upgrade

[@SoundSpeeding]

nah, it won't happen! Buy an external automixer if you want to do it on the cheap

[@SullyCortez]

Curtis this was SOOO helpful had no idea "automixing" was even a thing! Is this only found on certain higher end devices? This would be huge for my corporate work as a lot of it tends be in rooms and locations with tons of reverb so it's hard to cut out the reverb and bleed from other people. Thank you for this vid!

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Sully, thanks! Yes, I've only seen it on the Sound Devices 6xx series mixer/recorders and Zaxcom has a similar feature on their Nomad mixer/recorder. But now that it has made its way into the pro products, we can hope to see that make its way into the mid market recorder/mixers.

[@scottwilkinson1664]

I love DCI. Had a few friends march Cavaliers.

[@curtisjudd]

Very cool!

[@CZsWorld]

I thought DCI stood for Digital Cinema Intermediate or something.

[@curtisjudd]

That's another DCI.

[@Sudakov]

Thanks for your video again, Curtis! Do you know if any USB audio interfaces cat "produce" not only separate tracks, but master stereo mix? Just like that "Tr1-6+L/R" setting you mentioned in comments. Me and my friends are podcasters that wants to make live podcasts and simultaneously write separate tracks of each of three XLR-microphones for future editing.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Mikhail, yes, that would be a job for the DAW (digital audio workstation) app you use. You should be able to feed the three tracks to a stereo mix track. Just about any modern audio interface with 3+ inputs should be able to do this. Do you already have an audio interface?

[@Sudakov]

Thanks! No, I don't have audio interface right now - I'm still searching for the good/best one. I thought that some audio interfaces can do mixing on the fly, in hardware (just like all that mixers), and it's not software (DAW) job. I was wrong? Is this "Tr1-6+L/R" setting works on hardware level on on software level? Sorry for my bad English and complete lack of knowledge about audio interfaces.

[@curtisjudd]

It is a case of hardware and software for audio interfaces (and technically this is also the case with the Zoom F4 and F8). The difference is that the software is in the F4 vs in a DAW with an audio interface. Great question, thanks for that!

[@leapnlarry]

Did you do a follow up video on doing mixing in post in adobe premiere or audition? I am manually cutting out the non-speaking audio in premiere but it is very time consuming. Most people watching our videos would not notice the difference but I can hear a huge difference with headphones on while I am editing. Thanks. Larry

[@curtisjudd]

I wouldn't generally cut the audio entirely - that would sound like something broke. Best to leave a bit of room tone in there, even if you do use something like an expander to make it quieter.

[@karlcerdan]

Hi Curtis, I'm a new subscriber ;) Just a couple of questions. Is it a common practice to compress a dialogue between two person? Is there any book on post recording techniques? Keep up the good work! I really appreciate all the info you put out there and the gear comparison!

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Karl, welcome to the community! It is common to compress dialogue between two people for the purposes of loudness normalization, but it is not always necessary. I have a post processing course over at school.learnlightandsound.com and of course we will continue to cover these topics here. Mixing is something we have not covered a lot yet, but will be going forward since lots of people have asked about that. More to come!

[@karlcerdan]

Thank you for your fast answer, looking forward to it!

[@williamlopez5462]

That is type of info I need. Different setup for same situation. Two people talking with wireless mics.How you setup the Z4 so I can have two separate channels each one recorded in stereo so I can at least lower the recordings in post. Assuming my two people are far away than your example.Thank you for your good info.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, will work fine. Good luck!

[@richpfeifer7791]

Hi Curtis, Love your videos. Slightly off topic, but can you tell me the advantages/disadvantages of this approach but with lav mics? Does using a lav eliminate some of the issues with microphone bleed? I realize there are many ways to approach the audio setup on a two-person interview. Thanks!

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Rich, this is still very much applicable with lavalier mics, though unless the two people are sitting very close, lavaliers have the signal to noise advantage simply because they are mounted on the person speaking. But if you're still getting bleed, this can still help. Thanks!

[@fredericsidler]

Thank you for the automix demo. I was sure something like that existed ;-) 3'000 USD is too pricey for me, but I will look for alternatives. Have a great day Curtis.

[@curtisjudd]

You're welcome and have a great day!

[@joetimemedia6802]

Hey Curtis, Just for my personal notes, whats that piece of equipment you have your mixer jacked into. Is that some kind of cpu interface, or is that a recorder, in any case it looks important enough to ask.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Joe, that is the Zoom F4 audio recorder. The mixer is just a controller, the F4 is what is actually recording the sound. I reviewed it here if you are interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZTInJ-woJhjf9E

[@geekhomeworld4248]

I love Auto Mix on my 633. I generally run Mix Assist, though I also like Dungan Auto Mixer. First time I used it I thought my recorder was malfunctioning (such a noob at the time), then I realized Auto Mix was just doing it's job. LOL. Interesting take on manually fading technique. Question: What are your thoughts, or can you direct me to a video you created, on recording a two person interview where both people are in separate locations (I think it's called a "double ender")? I have done interviews on my podcast before (Windows 10 guy here) where we both record locally using Skype. My guest then sends me their mp3 through Skype. (This is the non-mixer version, but now since I have a 633...). Anyway, I sync the tracks in post, clean them up, and mix down to final mp3 for upload to podcast. Is there a better Windows 10 way to do this, especially since I have a 633? (A "hello" also to @RayOrtega below; Ray is awesome). Thank you Curtis, you are super awesome also! Thanks, Ed :)

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Ed, the double ender is generally how I do remote recordings. Ray knows way more about remote podcast productions so I would definitely suggest you get in touch with him for advice on that front. I'm a lot more focused on film production sound and haven't dabbled as much in remote podcast workflows. Best wishes!

[@KGKraetzerMedia]

Thanks Curtis, I feel like I am operating at the 102 level. I am going to try the SC6 to link a hand help mic with a lapel lav mic. At what stage is a mixer helpful? Many thanks, Ken

[@curtisjudd]

+Ken Kraetzer a mixer can save a lot of time in post when the two people have very different voices in terms of loudness.

[@HkxMing]

thank you so much!!however, how many db should i fade down for the people who is not speaking

[@curtisjudd]

However much sounds best - there are no hard and fast rules. Maybe start with 9 dB? Trust your ears.

[@kiaaziz3037]

Excellent Curtis, Thanks! Kia

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Kia!

[@joshua3113]

I'm thinking about buying a second hand shure fp410 intellimix to mess around with. It'd be really cool to see something like that with like a zoom f4. I'm sure it's no Dugan solution but could possibly be usable for us low budget guys. You know anything about them?

[@IsaacFromHK]

As always, love your tutorial, so much value! I just got myself a Zoom F6, I know it has AutoMix too, but how will its AutoMix perform when 1. both people are talking at the same time (kind of like interrupting each other very often)? 2. When there are 3 to even 5 people talking (like a panel discussion) Problem is I use it for Corp Live stream, so I need it to work in LIVE mode. THanks!

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Isaac, do some tests to confirm. My experience has been that it errs on the side of not attenuating mics enough so it works well in both of the scenarios you cited. I only wish it would attenuate the mics of people not speaking to a greater degree than it does. In fact, it seems to make the biggest difference when you have more than two people, each with their own mic.

[@Pikmeir]

Is mixing like this usually done live with an automixer, or left raw to be mixed in post for productions? I've never tried it live, but I do it in post when it's more than 1 person. Takes a *ton* of time though.

[@curtisjudd]

No, I think most leave it for post, but it is a ton of work which is why trying it while recording can be a good idea or even better, use auto mix if you've got it.

[@KiselevSash]

Thx so much, can Audition do auto mixing in post? Thx

[@curtisjudd]

Hi, there are some features that help, but don't yet totally automate mixing. Hopefully this will be possible in Audition soon.

[@andyvarga7680]

Hi Curtis - if I’m using something like Rode Procaster Pro for multi hand interview could I just use a noise gate on each channel and that will have the same effect of muting the mics that aren’t being spoken into?

[@curtisjudd]

Sort of, but if people are too close or people have loud voices, gates don’t prevent all the bleed.

[@PawelChyrowski]

Thanks. Curtis, what do you think about gh5?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Pawel, thanks. The GH5 is great so far. I've shot with the GH4 for 3 years and the GH5 is a nice upgrade. I really like the in-body image stabilization, the full-size HDMI output, and the overall video image it produces is very good.

[@PawelChyrowski]

I'm asking because I have a blackmagic pocket. And, you know, I'm wonder about the change :) Thanks for reply. Happy Easter!

[@barrycrowder]

Nice video, Curtis. I'm guessing that the skill required to anticipate the change in speakers would take some time to develop and would depend on some degree to your knowledge of the speech patterns of the interviewer. A lot of interviewers talk over their guests, unfortunately. You mentioned a separate video for doing this in post. I am inclined to think that a properly set gate could get you similar results without the stress of performing during the live interview. I'd appreciate hearing our thoughts on this approach.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Barry, thanks. I agree, I think experience, particularly with individual interviewers, would make one better at anticipating when to pull and push the faders. I think that the auto mix algorithms are a little more sophisticated than gates, at least my experience with the 633's automix feature seems to bear that out. The trick with simple gates (and there may now be some out there that are more sophisticated) is that they use amplitude threshold as a trigger to engage. It might be possible and worth a try, but I suspect that the automix algorithms are looking at more than just amplitude to engage. If I had to guess, they are at least looking at an RMS level or perhaps some other sort of average and possibly even frequencies. I hope that makes sense and thanks for the thoughtful question!

[@barrycrowder]

Thanks for the reply. Your answer makes a lot of sense. FWIW, the gate in REAPER (ReaGate) has an adjustable setting for RMS and also a frequency range for determining the signal. I will play with it a bit to see if I can get something that works.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Oh, that's good news, interested to hear your experience with that! That would be a nice tool.

[@moose304]

Excellent info Curtis, Thanks! One quick question...where/how do you setup the F4/F8 for that? Where you're getting both the individual tracks as well as a stereo mix?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Dan, thanks. In the REC/PLAY menu you set Res to SD1 to "Tr1-6+L/R". That will record iso tracks for each of the mics plus a stereo mix. In the file you record, the stereo mix will be the first two channels and then the following channels will be the isos.

[@moose304]

Cool. Does that still work if I'm using the "dual level recording" I can't remember the correct name. I record a bunch of live events and the people speaking can have be both very quiet and very loud, so I set up the F8 so input 1 and 4 are the same tracks (and so on), but I turn 4 down a bit to give me a bit more head room in case someone gets loud. At the same time, the room is pretty awful acoustically so anything I can do to cut down on reverb/reflection would be great! Thanks!

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, still works. You'll get a file where channels 1+2 are the stereo mix, channel 3 is input 1, channel 4 is input 2, channel 5 is the lower gain input 1, and channel 6 is the lower gain input 2.

[@moose304]

Fantastic! Thanks so much for the help!

[@jimkoral3824]

Off topic, but do you plan to do a review of Izotope RX-5? I understand that it is amazing and would love hear your thoughts on its effectiveness!

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Jim, I'm planning to meet up with Izotope to learn about RX-6 week after next at NAB. I cover RX from time to time over on my channel dedicated to audio and in fact some of our weekly sessions have demonstrated some of RX's features. Here's one example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipzCqIOnj7CCack

[@NeonsStyleHD]

I record gaming video with friends on teamspeak. Sometimes even though I'm wearing a headset, their audio is picked up by my independant microphone. My mic sits on a stand, about a foot from my mouth and I've not found a way to eliminate the teamspeak audio getting into my mic. Do you know a way other than buying a new headset? What I do now, is just manually clean it by silencing the track in between my vocals.

[@curtisjudd]

Mixing like this but in post is the other main option. Sounds like that is pretty much what you're doing. It is a pretty tedious process. You can make it a little easier in post with a control surface with a fader so you're essentially doing it like we showed here, but in post and you can correct any late fade-ups. I'm still looking for a control surface myself but will keep people updated on the channel here when I find one that works well with Audition.

[@skakdosmer]

I found the difference very noticeable, but I would feel much more comfortable doing the mixing in post. If I did it live, I'm sure I'd screw up a lot worse than you did. But of course I realize that if you got really good at it, you could save a lot of time. By the way, assuming that auto mixing is not available in the Zoom devices (I haven't checked the manual), do you think there's any chance it might come in a firmware upgrade?

[@RallenMan]

Manual mixing at first is pretty intimidating, particularly if you have 4 or more mics to mix. But like any skill you get better with time on the job. You learn to listen carefully to know how to move the faders so no volume level changes can be noticed. You learn to read and know the script if there is one. You learn to watch the talent for body moves, head motions and other non-verbal cues to know when they are going to speak to get that fader open and tail off the other(s). Auto-mixing is a CPU intensive function and in the case of Dugan auto-mix there are royalties to pay. No Zoom recorder has auto-mix, but Zoom is pretty amazing how they keep coming up with game changing products and features, so you never know but I would not bet on it.

[@jallantan]

Hi Curtis. I am starting to do more video recording at conferences and exhibitions. Problem is I am a one-man reporter/camera crew. Is there a portable device that will allow me to control the gain/volume of two mics. I want to reduce gain sensitivity without introducing reverb/echo/hiss/noise (so any unwanted noise) coming from two wired lav mics. Any thoughts? Thank you.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Jose, the Zoom F8n has an iOS app you can use to remotely control gain level. Is that what you meant by a portable device?

[@cxociety6983]

@@curtisjudd Thanks, Curtis. Taking your idea of the Zoom, I took out my Zoom H5 and connected externals to it, and hooked the Zoom headset to the Panasonic GH5 mic in, and plugged in headsets to the camera's earphone jack. Now I can adjust the gain so that I can hopefully adjust the sensitivity of the mic (something like that) so I can mute some of the ambient noise in a conference (tomorrow is day one). Hopefully it works as well as when I tested it in a quiet room. Thanks. Allan

[@curtisjudd]

Best of luck, Allan!

[@humblepie9906]

This will work good with the newly announced Sound Devices Mix Pre3 or Pre6. Which will compete with the Zoom F4.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, manually mixing will work well on the new MicPre's. Unfortunately I don't believe auto mix is available though.

[@TomPolkampSound]

Hi Curtis, once again a great video! I could really hear the difference when you mixed the tracks. It sounded clear and natural. But when listening to the auto-mix I noticed the auto compression right after a word was spoken. It seems it's pushing the silence down which sometimes sounded artificial. So I was wondering if the purpose of the automix was to just switch between 2 inputs or/and lowering the overall silences in between spoken tekst? Cheers

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Tom, good question. There is a setting on the automix for how much attenuation in dB you want it to apply between phrases. The default setting which I used is -20dB. I might experiment with that a bit to see if we can make it sound more transparent.

[@RallenMan]

I have used auto-mixing on 633 for a while now and have not noticed any intra-word compression artifacts. The 633 does not compress during auto-mixing, in fact the only thing close to a compressor in the 633 are the limiters but they were not active in the auto-mix demo. I did not hear what you refer to but I did hear an improved mix over the manual mix. To your question about does auto-mix just switch between 2 inputs... auto-mixing is more sophisticated than simple switching. There are two auto-mixing methods available in the 633 and I noticed in the demo Dugan was used. From the SD 633 manual: "Dugan’s system operates on a very elegant principle: each individual input channel is attenuated by an amount (in dB) equal to the difference (in dB) between that channel’s level and the sum of all channel levels. The gain of all channels is adjusted immediately and continuously based on what each channel is receiving. The neat aspect of this mathematical construct is that the total gain through the system never changes, it always stays at 0dB. The core concept of this mixer is totally automatic, so there are no thresholds or other adjustments to set. With Dugan auto-mixing, multi-mic speech applications are mixed with smooth automatic cross-fades for clear, optimized audio recordings." The auto fade that happens after a mic channel goes quiet is around 500 mS so no fading happens in between words unless a speaking gap exceeds that timing, and at least one mic channel stays open even in silence to maintain background ambiance. Makes me wonder if what you heard was a KZbin artifact.

[@RallenMan]

Curtis, it appeared that you used Dugan rather than MixAssist and the -20dB adjustment is only for MixAssist.

[@curtisjudd]

I stand corrected, thank you. And thanks for the detailed info from the manual. Very interesting approach to mixing with nice practical results.

[@TomPolkampSound]

Thanks for this clear explanation. So i've did a playback on this and every time I heard the same small distortion when the woman on the right says: "Use probs, so..." (4:04 min). Right after the word "So" the girl on the left agrees with a small "hmhmm". You can hear the auto-mix picking that up and having difficulties with shifting back fast enough resulting in a slightly distorted sound. It's nothing we can't deal with, but it was something I noticed from the first view.

[@JimmyDevere]

Would it be easier to just use to lav mics? Less set up of boom? Would it reduce the reverb? Why do would you choose one over the other. And could you use one boom mic over both? What effect would that have? THanks.

[@curtisjudd]

+JimmyDevere hi Jimmy, lavalier mics almost always have Omni-directional pickup patterns so they will still pick up the other person, though the effect may be less prominent. There are trade offs either way. Boom mics almost always sound more natural but in a reverberant room, lavs may be a better choice since they’re attached to a body which reflects/absorbs much of the sound from one side. Unless the people are very close to each other or someone is moving the boom mic to aim at whomever is currently speaking, one boom is not generally ideal. It would be capturing sound slightly off axis in the best of cases. With shotgun micsthis can result in a warbling sort of phase issue and if not, it would be getting a lower signal to noise ratio which is not ideal for audio quality. I hope that helps!

[@JimmyDevere]

Yes it does, thanks!

[@MiecholCanteros]

This was helpful thanks dude! How do I power all these mica though? I'm thinking of recording nature sounds.

[@MiecholCanteros]

*mics

[@curtisjudd]

The recorder takes care of that for us, fortunately. If I need a lot of record time on the Zoom F4, F8, or Sound Devices 633 (e.g., 12 hours), I power them with an Anton Bauer battery via the hirose connector.

[@MiecholCanteros]

Curtis Judd Thanks Curtis! I'll be recording everything on my phone. I saw your Saramonic Smartrig and Deity mic video, love them! and I was thinking of using these two set ups with my iPhone 5s. Is this a good enough setup to record nature? I just want to have sound on my video right away instead of syncing an audio to the video because iMovie on the iPhone does not show the waves images in the audio bars.

[@curtisjudd]

It all depends on the level of quality you want. This is a very convenient setup that will work well. Some audiophiles will say that the quality is not good enough, but that's up to you. :)

[@MiecholCanteros]

Curtis Judd good point, thank you. I forgot about quality. What you you recommend with this same setup with great quality sound under a budget?

[@michaellimeallen8309]

When I have a live sound, I use gates to helps with this.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, another option. Thanks!

[@fabp1992]

Is possible to do a good work manually mixing just with the zoom f4? I mean without controller. I currently have a h5 zoom, but I am thinking of buying a f4 zoom very soon. By the way, with the h5 zoom you can also mix, right?

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, you'd just need to get used to the knobs on the F4 while they are set to fader mode. On the H5 I believe that the knobs are only gain trim knobs so you are actually changing the gain on the ISO tracks, not just fading a stereo mix. In short, the H5 doesn't do what we described here unless you connect a mixing board to it. By the way, that is another option worth considering.

[@fabp1992]

Thanks. Anyway I think to upgrade and buy the Zoom F4 especially for the incredible preamps. I think it's wiser to invest in it first than in a new microphone. What do you think?

[@curtisjudd]

I think that the F4 is a very good investment. I like it so much that I bought one and have no regrets. :)

[@stevenr3853]

I didn't know the 633 was capable of mix assist I know about the 688 and the auto mix feature was that a add on ?

[@curtisjudd]

It was added to the most recent firmware update for the 633 a couple of months ago so it is just recently added.

[@mohamedashafey4292]

Can you help me I have problem with my audio system It have 2 mic but only one mic work

[@curtisjudd]

Probably best to contact the manufacturer. Best wishes!

[@princecharmyhonusou8501]

how can I get connected with the drone dealers or makers? is there a website, if there's, please kindly send the website here. 'cause am a film producer and I need a good camera or drone for my movie industry with boom to buy

[@curtisjudd]

The best way is to go to an industry conference like NAB and make contact there. If that’s not an option then go to their website and contact them there. You may have to get creative. I don’t have any contacts in the drone world.

[@joshua3113]

Now I want auto mixing. Lol. Damn you Dan Dugan. Why must you be so good...

[@joshua3113]

Very nice video BTW.

[@curtisjudd]

+joshua3113 haha! I met Dan at NAB this year. Sharp guy!

[@anthonyroberts9232]

Love me some DCI Drum Corps I was a soprano player in The New York Lancers Drum & Bugle Corps as a teenager. I just bought my zoom 4 digital recorder love it but can it do multi track recording and punch in/out if it does this would be the best on the market.

[@curtisjudd]

Hey, good to meet another former DCI marcher! It can when used as an audio interface but I don't believe it can as a field mixer without a computer/digital audio workstation app.

[@GaranFitzgerald]

Curtis Judd Using Cubasis 2 and a camera connection kit with my iPad Pro 10.5", I was able to record from all 6 inputs of the zoom simultaneously using the multitrack USB connection option of the Zoom F4. However, I could only monitor using the Zoom's outputs, not the iPad's headphone out.

[@curtisjudd]

Good info, thanks Garan!

[@GaranFitzgerald]

Curtis Judd No worries! I'll put up a video of it later, but my setup was SM57 in 1, AT-1701 wireless lav system in 2, in-ear binaural mics in 3/4 stereo linked, and another AT-1701 in dual-mono mode plugged into 5/6. The lav plugged into 5/6 was super quiet, but it was audible but noisy after some massive boosting in post.

[@alirezaei857]

how can i connect my power bank to my zoom h4n pro i keep on doing it but it wont work. do you have any idea why its not working for me?

[@curtisjudd]

A few things to try: Confirm that your power bank is not turning off. Connect and power up the power bank after connecting the usb cable to the H4n Pro, then turn on the H4n Pro. You might also confirm that you're using the latest firmware (though this shouldn't be the cause of the issue). If those don't work out, probably best to contact Zoom support. Good luck!

[@azuniga2005]

Thank you

[@curtisjudd]

You're welcome!

[@RayOrtega]

😲 that auto-mix. Drool;)

[@curtisjudd]

Haha! It is awesome. Another differentiating feature.

[@seanwebb605]

The audio mixing would be fantastic for dirty, quick turn around projects.

[@OptimazingBusiness]

@@curtisjudd 3000$ for that mixer though, oof... got a cheaper option that has this feature?

[@curtisjudd]

@@OptimazingBusiness Yes, the Sound Devices MixPre series recorders have an optional MixAssist plugin option which works very nicely. The Zoom F4, F6, and F8 recorders include an AutoMix feature though I haven't found it to be quite as effective as the Sound Devices MixPre MixAssist.

[@OptimazingBusiness]

@@curtisjudd Thanks a lot Curtis! Awesome Job you're doing here, thanks a lot for all the help you provide on the channel!

[@scottwilkinson1664]

I will be shooting a 5 person panel discussion. I have 5 lavaliers that will be my main source for each person then I also have 3 omnidirectional condensers that I will place on the table just as backup audio. I have those 3 going into the 3 different cameras I have. The question I have about the 5 lav sources, I only have the TASCAM DR70 but I do also have a small mixing board that can handle the 5 lavs. I assume I won't be able to do the live mixing and retain 5 stereo tracks on the tascam in case I mess up the fading? Thanks for the help, I am very lacking in my audio knowledge when it comes to video production.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Scott, 5 is just one more than the 70D can handle since you're aiming to record each microphone to it's own isolated channel. The mixer wouldn't get around that limitation but would allow you to "pre-mix" two of the microphones down to a single channel that you could then feed to the 70D. I hope that makes sense and best wishes!

[@scottwilkinson1664]

Thanks! Its funny that you mention 5 being too much, just got word we are now only doing 4 total people on camera so this should work fine now. I don't expect you to go in complete depth on the 70D but from limited knowledge when using it, how can I record 4 separate sources on the device? I know there are 4 XLR inputs but settings in the device aren't clear to me in order to accomplish that.

[@curtisjudd]

That's good news! Pages 12-14 in the manual should help you get things set up. Good luck!

[@tarungoyal9279]

Thanks for the video sir but please tell me one think can I connect zoom f8 with sound mixer like yamaha or any other device?? If yes how ?? Please !!

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, you use the main outputs or Aux outputs from the mixer to the line inputs on the F8. There's a fair bit more in the details than I can address in a comment, but yes, you can feed the output of a mixer to the Zoom F8.

[@tarungoyal9279]

Please sir made the video how can i do this ?? Or please add the more details of this thing!!

[@curtisjudd]

Ok. Please explain what you are trying to accomplish with a mixer and F8? There are several different ways that each have benefits and costs.

[@tarungoyal9279]

Ya sure there is a function in my family which we Indian called bhaghawat. In this function the priest is giving the lecture and sung the songs whole day for this function i need to separate their voice and filter their voice and sync their voice timing to edit my movie to enjoy the function after it’s over. You can also search this function with this line “ bhaghawat mridul Krishan sharti “ this thing will tell u to improve the voice and video quality

[@tarungoyal9279]

Please give me the faver

[@rickallenphoto]

Curtis, I am new to video & am trying to do a music video using a pre-recorded track. When I play the song back thru a soundsystem and record the sound+video on my video recorder, I find the sound/video quickly go out of sync even after a few secs. Curious if you have a KZbin video or course I can review to see how to sync video/audio with studio recorded sound file. Thanks. Rick Allen, St Paul MN

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Rick, Good question. My brother has shot far more music videos and when I asked him he said that he ran into that issue once but since they were shooting three Nikons and one Canon, they just cut between the angles to nudged the clips that needed to be nudged to keep them all in sync. I hope that makes sense?

[@hawksoob]

Could it be a 44.1 vs 48 thing?

[@rickallenphoto]

Thanks for the reply. Indeed, I used the same technique as your bro to get things to sync. I also contacted Panasonic (mfg'er of my video equipment) to ask them. Because I need to play the music while capturing the video, Panasonic tech service suggested I use an audio PLAYER with TC sync master as input into the camera. I am not aware of any audio recorder / player that can output TC sync while playing back to external monitors?? I understand the logic but am not aware of any such technology??

[@rickallenphoto]

Thanks for the comment, and I wish it were that simple. I contacted Panasonic tech service. Because I need to play studio-pre-recorded music while capturing video, they suggested I use an audio PLAYER with TC sync master as input into the camera while playing back using external monitors.. I understand the logic but am not aware of any such technology??

[@curtisjudd]

Same here. I'm concerned that one of your devices drifts so much. Perhaps do some tests with a different playback system?

[@nolancraigwell8195]

does the Sound Devices MixPre 10T have auto mixing?

[@curtisjudd]

No, that is only on the SD 6 series mixers (e.g., 633, 688)

[@POLARICED]

When you have more than 2 tracks, isn't it better to use auto mix?

[@curtisjudd]

Depends on the situation. If it is an unscripted discussion or interview, yes, I'd generally use auto mix. But if it is scripted or there's not a lot of back and forth, I can get a cleaner mix by manually mixing like this. Also, this video is meant to demonstrate what mixing is, even if the plan is to use Automix in most situations. It is good to know what's going on with auto mix.

[@POLARICED]

@@curtisjudd I was really looking for your insight when I asked my question, as always thank you Curtis!

[@NyoMurdi]

In your professional opinion what would you class as 'mixing' and what would you class as 'mastering'

[@curtisjudd]

Mixing can be done while recording or in post. The main elements of mixing are using faders to adjust the levels of each track and panning tracks as desired. Post mixing can include lots of other processing including noise reduction, EQ , and others effects. Mastering usually refers to the final step in the post process where loudness is fine tuned. This sounds simple but good mastering engineers can do amazing things to reduce contention between tracks, loudness normalize, and put the final polish on audio mixes.

[@NyoMurdi]

Awesome! Thanks for the advice once again :) much appreciated

[@STFSTUDIO]

great

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks

[@nobbystyles4807]

ive owned hundreds of audio mixers and its the first time ive thought immediately the right tool for manual mixing in this context would be a crossfader with a soft curve (in order to maintain your nominal channel volume on each side). you could even automate that in post much more acurately. at least that way you would retain some creative control rather than the recorder doing it. although it does seem to be doing a great job.

[@curtisjudd]

👍