MLB in TROUBLE? Why Jeff Passan is CONCERNED About Pitching Injuries in Baseball.

ESPNs Jeff Passan joins the Ryan Ripken Show to explain why he is concerned about the recent up tick in MLB Pitchers needing Tommy John Surgery.

[@papagrantits]

The issue isn't big league pitch counts, it's little league pitch counts. These children are pitching year-round and in multiple leagues at a time. They're pitching more than kids have in history. You're seeing the rise in pitching injuries because we're stressing out ligaments, muscles, and cartilage during crucial growth periods, and it all started in the 90's.

[@dpm2515]

No it's not. It's absolutely has to do with I think throwing these horizontal pitches and really pronating your wrist after release or the opposite to get the change up or swerve Spin and then also it's a velocity issue

[@papagrantits]

@@dpm2515 velocity is a big issue, I'll definitely admit that. But pronating your wrist isn't a new thing. Talk to me when your dad is a sports doctor who's been watching the trend for years.

[@MikeH0ncho]

I’m 45. When I was a kid learning to pitch in the late 80s, my grandfather(who pitched for the Brooklyn Dodgers minor league club) would NOT allow me to throw breaking balls. He didn’t even stress velocity. For him, it was all about repetition and location. He told me that I can learn to throw breaking balls later on. If you watch the little league World Series these days, these kids are throwing all kinds of breaking balls. I’m convinced that has something to do with these injuries as they get older. The pressure to throw hard as you mentioned is most definitely a factor, as well.

[@pebmets]

Look at pitchers like Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Nolan Ryan, Jack Morris, Gaylord Perry, etc. They all pitched 250+ innings in a season, many times 300+. None of them had major arm issues in their careers. Seaver generated power from his legs, look at the knee on his uniform, always dirt on it. Today, instead of pitching, players are throwing as hard as they can. Keep in mind games in 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s ran about 2 1/2 hours and it was not uncommon to get a 2 hour game. Don't see the pitch clock being the issue, but more how pitchers are trained today.

[@ComradeArthur]

the pitchers you named, most threw a lot of innings in the early to mid 1960s when they had the high strike zone*. That made it easier to pitch and they built up over the years. When the strike zone was lowered, they already had their great arms.

[@pebmets]

@@ComradeArthur Your point is well taken. There were pitchers like Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, etc who pitched 250 innings+ in the 90s. You mentioned the key, build up. Today, pitchers are babied. That approach appears to backfiring since many of the pitchers hurt today, had innings limits when they 1st started. It was noted, Nolan Ryan didn't throw his hardest at the start of games. He held back until later when he needed it. The money appears to go to strikeout leaders and hard throwers. If that money was there for finesse pitchers as in the past, players would be pitching more than throwing as hard as they can. It is just a guess on my part, but the need for speed is killing arms and no one wants to take the time and learn how to pitch different speeds without breaking the radar gun. The money is so great and players don't want to wait.

[@jw7665]

100%. And before people bring up velocity, it's a valid argument but guys like Seaver and Ryan threw HARD even in today's standard.

[@s.henrlllpoklookout5069]

​@pebmets not just the need for speed, but also the need for more movement. That places a lot of stress on a pitcher's arm too

[@lavs8696]

thats probably correct, but what can you do about it? teams demand more power from pitchers, its not the game of old, hitters are much better and have much more info at their disposal. players are chasing the demands and where the money is. there seems to be no fix to this

[@JeffBezosIsSanta]

Just imagine how many potential hall of fame caliber pitchers (like Greg Maddux if he was being recruited today for example) are just being ignored and not given opportunities based solely on velocity and spin rate numbers. Pretty sad really.

[@jayseaborg3895]

It's a vicious circle--in the minors you never see a pitcher go through a lineup for a third time, which then translates to not knowing how to do it at the major league level, which then leads teams to think a pitcher could go max velocity from the first pitch because they are only going to throw 5 innings, which leads to injuries. Build them up early, have them throw at 90% until they need a big pitch, and focus on location over velocity. There would still be arm injuries because throwing 100+ pitches just isn't a natural activity, but maybe they would be lessened.

[@lionman3378]

Pitchers need the watch Greg Maddux ,Roger Clemens ,Tom Glavine,pedro Martinez, etc, pitching videos

[@silmarian]

It’s in part the same thing that drives corporate America and has for the last few decades - short term benefits with no eye to the long term.

[@xman777b]

best post in this thread.

[@derick-smith]

Great interview. I think it will ultimately take a superstar or two that doesn't throw 101 to shift the pattern. Another Greg Maddux and a Hoyt Wilhelm basically need to fall from the heavens. Problem is, Greg Maddux would be told at 15 that if he wasn't breaking 95 by his senior year, he'd never play at the next level. Its starting WAY too early for these kids.

[@mmonkeyman1403]

IMO as soon as people started being able to track RPM as well as the path the ball took it created a huge spiral where they basically incentivized throwing hard and boosting those RPMs as much as possible. The sticky stuff was a byproduct of that, the changing of the balls to fly more, the increased amount of youth playing, etc. all contributing and feeding back into it. In the past it used to be the odd few guys who’d need it, but once they started pushing the natural talent past the natural breaking point, all hell broke loose.

[@douglasennis7291]

It's analytics! That's the core reason 💥

[@jollyroger61]

Good stuff !

[@markmoran9272]

Most successful pitchers who have stuck in the Bigs have done so in spite of their pitching coaches and have, many times, said “yes sir” to their face then turned around and did exactly what he needed to do to get guys out.

[@LambeauLeeeper]

Trevor Bauer looking real good with his “ odd ball training”..😂😂😂

[@aredd1972]

I was having long discussions with a guy who pitched in college back in the early 2000s and late 90s people were only throwing in the lower 90s now. People are throwing in the upper 90s coming out of high school. The simple fact is the human body is just not meant to take this much stress and these high velocity fast balls that go up to 102 like Paul skins are just gonna end up, getting injured sooner and same thing is happening in football with leg injuries so the NFL is banning certain tackling

[@manager4409]

Yep all the stress goes to 1 elbow ligament no matter how tall and strong you may be. There's really no way around that

[@dpm2515]

One thing I would add is that if you don't build up your forearms and your tendons and ligaments which are directly in proportion to muscle size are unaffected yet you increase velocity from 85 to 95 over the course of 5 years you're going to have issues. You can't have guys built like basketball players whipping their arms at 100 miles an hour it's inevitable their elbow is going to snap look at degrom and other Elite pitchers their arms are very skinny... I tore my forearm muscle a few different times and it was painful for about a month but I was able to bounce back after about a month and then was at full strength after 2 months. But something definitely snapped multiple times felt like it tore my elbow, but mri was clean

[@novaxdjokovic9592]

Look to tennis. I know it's not the biggest sport in the States but Tennis players take insane care of themselves and Tennis elbow (same injury that pitchers get) has virtually been eliminated in the last 20 years. Whatever they're doing, its working

[@cheguevara1983]

Today, a HS player that is on JV, does not even gets promoted to Varsity unless they Seat 80. (At least in Florida).

[@my2l]

florida is a competitive state, 80 really is not that high for a varsity pitcher.

[@cheguevara1983]

@@my2l Exacty, but should it be that way? Do we put 7 YO on GoKarts to learn how to race, or do we put them straight on an F1 to crash and die?

[@my2l]

@@cheguevara1983 coaches even at the high school level want to win, I don't think they want a 70mph project arm on the squad against competitive hitters, jv is perfect for them to develop.

[@cheguevara1983]

@@my2l Exactly, I'm not saying is good or Bad, I;m just pointing out the reality of the situation, not sure how they will put that Genie back in the bottle

[@cheguevara1983]

Right now in South Florida (Dade and Brward county) probably one of the most competitive baseball in the nation for HS, most best ERA/WHIP pitchers are all under 90MPH, with one or two exeptions.

[@peterjeffery8495]

I just watched Chris Bassitt pitch a beauty of a game in Toronto for the Blue Jays. He has 7 pitches and uses them all. He routinely throws a fastball that tops out at 92-94 with 72 MPH, curve balls mixed in, plus he uses the whole strike zone to keep hitters off balance. You can't sit on a single pitch when its 1 of 7. Bassitt also changes his approach to each batter giving them different looks throughout the game.

[@thomasjoseph3488]

I've been a baseball fan for fifty years and the famous "Moneyball" line uttered by Brad Pitt's Billy Beane fits the sport ("You say you know, and you don't.")

[@romanrodriguez4330]

This has been playing the Rays for years. Why is it suddenly getting… oh, yeah… bigger marquee teams are experiencing this… now it’s a major concern.

[@LambeauLeeeper]

Calm down Eminem.😂😂😂

[@843daravens]

Good stuff. Would love to see Dan Blewitt on the channel to get his thoughts, dude has an awesome book about pitching/arm health.

[@ryankonishi1547]

I’m glad you know! Dan may not have the answer, but he has great insight and credibility.

[@nolancarroll7522]

My take is that it’s not velocity, it’s the off speed pitches young kids are throwing If it was velocity, injuries would decrease with less innings pitched.

[@jeffbarnett3702]

57% of Tommy John surgeries occur on kids between the ages of 15-19...that statistic is absolutely ridiculous!!! The problem starts with youth coaching and focusing strictly on velo.

[@TheEnderTaz25]

It starts when players are really young. Youth league coaches don’t care about the health of their kids. They’re having them play year-round travel baseball when they’re 12 and they don’t get time to recover when they’re still developing. They’re just trained to throw hard with terrible mechanics.

[@markpekrul4393]

Yep - It starts with the industrialization of youth sports for the benefit of frustrated adults.

[@davidfox9947]

The way you have you pitch today to be effective is going to cause injury's that may shorten a career but if you don't throw that way it will be even shorter because you wont make it. Shining for a little less time then you would like is better then not shining at all.

[@burnlastsunday]

My god Jeff Passan is a kid. Don't know why but I pictured him much older. Seems like he's been around awhile.

[@lordbraunschweiger7814]

stop throwing shot puts as hard as you can training to chase velo. Long Toss, long toss, long toss... stop snapping off sliders as hard as you can. Go look into how tom house used to teach pitchers.

[@OshiZlebaseball]

Trevor Bauer long tossed all the time and hes never had elbow problems.

[@JustMeELC]

Not that alone but regardless that won't change because that's what gets pitchers to mlb & gets them paid.... & that combined with the pitch clock causing injuries ultimately saves billionaire owners millions 🤬

[@JustMeELC]

​@@OshiZlebaseballLolololol so ONE GUY out of most 🙄 Many who long toss everyday still get injured 🤣

[@ArgoG]

He threw haymakers at some ladies though 😂​@@OshiZlebaseball

[@roymundy4122]

Agreed think about starting catchers why don’t you see blow out arms. They throw at least 5x more if it’s wear and tear then they all should be losing their arms. You need to condition the body. I’d be curious to see the injury rate when they introduce pitch counts in little leagues. Did they increase?

[@bakajon]

Its not just velocity. All the new "specialty" pitches are also adding more stress on arms.

[@thebert8141]

I had Tommy John surgery in 2004 at the age of 18. Never threw a pitch in a game again lol. The rehab went fine, i was throwing good. I'm just a terrible student lol.

[@sheehancf9]

Unfortunately, health and performance are sometimes mutually exclusive. The techniques employed by modern pitching philosophies, mechanics-wise, chase performance (velocity) over health. Pitchers like Clemens, Seaver, Ryan, Verlander (up until his 40s), who all threw hard and for a long time, all hit the same arm angles when their landing foot hit the ground. You can create more torque if you delay your arm action longer, however, which often makes you throw harder. More whippy. If you must choose between performance and health, you're gonna take performance. Instructors needs to prioritize both in order the replicate the guys I mentioned.

[@catguy00]

I think this is something that was known decades ago when every team started to have hard throwing closers. So many of those closers had short careers because they would blow their arms out.

[@dgrblue4162]

Pitchers used to ne effective at getting hitters out at 90-94 FB and curveballs in the 70s. Hell, Fernando Valenzuela threw a screwball, a pitch that most coaches are afraid to teach as they feel it puts too much stress on the arm, but throwing 99 or massive 20" sweeping sliders don't?

[@JG-pm9ty]

As an M's fan, I think of comparing Randy Johnson to Jamie Moyer. One threw extremely hard and was built to do so, the other had masterful control and studied his opponents. I think the one size fits all approach to pitching is outdated. The ticking time bomb for a TJ surgery is a pretty messed up actuality.

[@dpm2515]

Randy Johnson has to be anomaly I think about him in 2001 pitching 7 or 8 innings in the World Series game 6 after like 250 innings during the season and then coming out and pitching relief in game 7...so crazy

[@jgould30]

Anyone that doesn't know why it happens clearly never threw a baseball hard or has zero understanding of the human anatomy. The number 1 predictor is how hard you throw in comparison to your body composition. Lots of tall and slim guys throwing hard. Not pitching, throwing. The art of pitching is all but lost in baseball. It happened to me 30 years ago as a lefty throwing 85-87 in high school. I pitched and always had the most wins and always clutched the big games against the hardest players. But then I played Legion ball with a few older kids, freshman on college, and we had a number of guys that could hit 93 and all of a sudden they wouldn't even give me a chance. Forgetting that I beat all of these guys in high school and their 93 mph fastballs were getting lit up in comparison. The game lost its way long ago.

[@PBW891]

I watched a Trevor Bauer interview where he said pitching coaches are ruining young pitchers by filling their heads with so much to think about while their pitching when they just need to throw the ball the way that's natural to them. Teach them how to pitch, not how to throw.

[@SP-ve1im]

There is no right answer to it. Some pitchers do need to throw certain amount of innings to avoid injuries vice versa, some will break no matter what the inning limit is. Main issue with MLB is, they are just trying to limit innings to avoid injuries since Mark Prior got messed up by Dusty Baker yet we still see so many pitchers breaking down with far less workload. Velocity is keep going up cos guys do not save up for 6 plus outing but this could definitely lead to more injuries as some guys just dial 100 from the beginning without pacing themselves like how guys used to pitch.

[@chrisolivo6591]

Movement, changing speeds and location is the key to pitching. I remember watching Roy Halladay and his fastball was between 92-94 mph, but EVERY pitch had movement. He would always keep a hitter off balance with movement, pinpoint accuracy and changing speeds. Halladay isn’t from the 1960’s or 70’s, or even 80’s. He was a modern pitcher who retired only 10 years and was throwing complete games and was averaging 235-250 innings per year. Thats how much pitching has changed in a decade.

[@my2l]

but when his velocity dropped he got lit up, it proves that velo still matters a lot.

[@144Donn]

I am elated to listen to this conversation. If there is one thing I cannot stand it is following blindly and holding fast to things which MAKE NO SENSE!!!! Perhaps pitchers are getting injured because they know they are not going 9 innings and as such, they do not pace themselves and throw out their arms as if they are going one inning. You cannot go 100 MPH all day long! Watch Greg Maddux or pitchers from the 90's ..even phenoms like Doc Gooden could not maintain his dominating fast ball more than a few years (yes I know about all of his drug problems). The point being, he had to become more of a pitcher as do all pitchers as they age. But, guys today are throwing ever harder because they do not have to last a full game (and every coach & scout have speed guns) and this may be more harmful.

[@adamgeigerjr6995]

Has nothing to do with pitch clock or lack of sticky and everything to do with the average velocity & spin rate skyrocketing … 10 years ago, a pitcher could throw 89 4-seams but be effective through location but would immediately be cut if that was all the "stuff" he could throw today …

[@lavs8696]

Location is not enough nowadays, sorry, hitters are way better and way more prepared.

[@giantsfan185]

@@lavs8696 Based on what evidence? The league had to ban the shift because hitters weren't capable of hitting the ball the away from the shift, even against pitchers that didn't throw in the high 90s.

[@lavs8696]

@@giantsfan185 hitters are way more prepared because of the data they get beforehand, all the aces in the league are high velo guys, the fact that they removed the shift just proves my point more, its that much harder to be a contact pitcher, The strike zone is much smaller as umpires dont widen the plate like they used to, not to mention hitting labs and training have mlb hitters more prepared than ever. Pitchers are chasing what you need to succeed in the modern mlb, sorry, its not eh baseball of old you people love to throw out names like Maddux

[@rogerweir1772]

Too many damn pitching changes. I remember games from the early 90s starting pitchers would normally go 8-9 innings...Now they barely go 5 innings.

[@rudivanrooijen7611]

In sports, as the level of play increases, so does the impact of injuries.........

[@theburnetts]

This discussion is 100% correct. The over arching problem is the radar gun. The radar gun makes scouting easy. You don't really have to do much evaluation on a player. Just look at the number on the radar gun. And it starts very, very early. My son was a pitcher in high school. We took him to a private pitching coach in the summer before his freshman year of high school. The coach helped him a lot with his set position, his mechanics, his weight distribution, getting more from his lower half etc. But at the end of the day he was also honest with the pitchers that he coached. It was all about lighting up the radar gun. That is what gets attention. Nothing else. My son was great at getting hitters out and great at pitching to contact and keeping his pitch count low. But none of that matters. He didn't throw hard enough. The only solution I see for this issue is to create pitch speed limits at different levels. Create a maximum pitch speed for MLB (and NCAA and HS). If a pitcher throws a pitch faster than 95 MPH in an MLB game then it is a ball. I know people won't like that idea but it's really the only thing that will work.

[@jonnyt16]

Yeah....good luck with that idea.

[@rudivanrooijen7611]

The radar gun has been around for over 50 years......

[@theburnetts]

@@rudivanrooijen7611 That is true. However only recently has baseball been collecting data on every single pitch. Only recently has the pitch velocity been displayed on the screen for EVERY pitch of EVERY game. Only recently has analytics and data overtaken the scouting of the sport. For many, many years radar speeds were just a background piece of information that nobody cared about too much. Scouting and in game decisions were made based on feel and watching the pitcher to see if he seemed tired or was struggling. Scouting a player was based mostly on the physical measurements of the player and his stats from high school or college. Today radar guns are available at 12 year old tournaments. Today the radar gun provides an instant objective measurement to compare pitchers at all age levels. Imagine for a minute that you removed radar guns from all games and all scouting sessions. How would you compare pitchers and evaluate a pitcher? Probably more based on results than the speed on the gun. But when you have radar guns everywhere the velocity they throw provides a very simple way of evaluating a pitcher.

[@rudivanrooijen7611]

@@theburnetts Well, I think injuries were always part of the game of baseball to more or less the same degree. The difference is, back in the day many injuries would end baseball careers to a far higher percentage and often even before playing professionally. Nowadays, the highly talented albeit injury-prone players, reach the big leagues with a higher frequency as modern healthcare, for instance TJ surgery, allows that to happen. This could very well explain why the average pitch velocity in MLB has actually gone up and may have led to more players getting injured at the big league level. The 'radargun complaint' has been around at least as long as my 45 years in baseball and I think the issue of arm injuries is just so much more diverse.....

[@theburnetts]

@@rudivanrooijen7611 My point is that the obsession with velocity is new. Just look at the graph of average fastball velocity over the years. It is way, way, way up! 30 years ago only 1 or 2 pitchers even got close to 100mph. Now there are many, many pitchers that throw that hard. The human body just can't sustain that. And TJ surgery isn't a solution. Major reconstructive elbow surgery should not just accepted as part of the job when you become a pitcher. Imagine if we had no radar guns anywhere. Not in HS, NCAA or MLB. No radar guns at all. Nobody would know exactly how hard anyone was throwing. Pitchers would be measured by other things like ERA, pitch efficiency and if they are getting batters out or not. And there would not be this obsession with velocity. And I think pitchers would be better off.

[@hiker-uy1bi]

How realistic is a pitching speed limit?

[@NelsonJOrtiz]

working on command is not an option for international plays trying to get signed and change their life.

[@paulcastaldo3437]

Shorter contracts

[@stevenwalker4923]

The unnatural throwing motion is causing the injuries. Pitching fast is about using proper mechanics and arm motion to gain speed. Unfortunately, it tears up your ligaments if you do it incorrectly. So coaches aren't teaching how to throw properly based on your throwing mechanics.

[@joefitz531]

20+ years ago good pitchers needed 3 things, velocity, movement and accuracy. Pitchers like Greg Maddux could be lights out maxing out at 95 because their secondary pitches had nasty movement and they hit their spots. Now, if a pitcher can't hit or come close to 100, they're junk. Not to mention with the pitch clock, its now a constant catch and throw. Throwing has hard as they can as quick as they can leads to injuries.

[@my2l]

not true, many pitchers in mlb today throw 92-93 and are effective, scouts actually value movement after the advances in pitch tracking technology.

[@chrispetryk6079]

Maddux, Glavine & Smoltz also consistently got strike calls 6” off the plate

[@williamfischer3990]

I think this may get to a point where coaches just tell pitchers throw at 80%.

[@charlescdt6509]

So the reason people get TJS is they don't know how to pitch but throw hard. Maybe Maddux needs to teach kids how to place their ball and not just try to blow past everyone.

[@h.r.9841]

That's the sore ,hard truth😢

[@my2l]

pretty sure bieber knows how to pitch, he throws 92-94 but strikes guys out, yet still needs TJ

[@davidcoleman730]

Are we ever going to see a Maddux again? Decent speed and more control

[@AwwwBeanz]

Logan Allen on the Guardians reminds me of a pitcher from 20-30 years ago. Low 90s fastball, good off speed pitches. Hasn’t been utterly dominant yet but he’s still a kid.

[@michaelthiel3161]

Hendricks is probably the closest current pitcher with a decent career. Don't see any young guys showing that yet.

[@AwwwBeanz]

@@michaelthiel3161 I’d say that’s a good comp yeah. I was just trying to think of someone just entering the league that doesn’t try to throw their arm off every 5th day.

[@dealswithnormiesallday]

I grew up on 80s and 90s baseball. I don't recognize the sport anymore.

[@JayMayhem13]

Analytics has done more harm than good for the game of baseball. It's going to take years to undo what they've destroyed.

[@manager4409]

All the stress goes to that elbow ligament no matter how tall and strong you may be. There's limits on what the human body can do and it seems everyone is refusing to see maybe it's not realistic to expect them to throw 95+ from February to October every year.

[@robertseurat5189]

When I was growing up starters were never hitting 100mph on the gun, now its common place

[@my2l]

still uncommon for starters, less than 20 big league starters can hit 100.

[@rudivanrooijen7611]

I'm sorry, but in baseball there have been cycles of injury-plagues as long as baseball exists. Nowadays even quite a number of positionplayers have had TJ-surgery. The thing is, because of modern medicine, injury-prone players who back in the day would not even have reached the big leagues because of injury, are now artificially kept 'healthy'. In my mind the TJ-surgery is a performance enhancing procedure as it doesn't heal the UCL, it reconstructs and modifies the elbow.

[@natrone23]

They pitch less and less. You should pitching more. Think about running, do you run less so you don’t get injured, no you run more and farther to build stamina resilience.

[@clifford7594]

Baseball's more expansive than MLB. Much more. Outside of MLB, it's more expansive than expensive, and endlessly beautiful. There's a group of many thousands of Managers who love the game, and whose focus is primarily on the players' health and safety. They've resolved this arm stress problem years ago, and the players' health and love of the game remains high. Their league is Little League, their solution is pitch counts, and all's well.

[@Smart-Towel-RG-400]

its like 60% the incresed velo 25% pitching coach breaking guys mechanics and 15% babying guys in my opinion

[@Fryed_Bryce]

So hard to tell a 20 year-old throwing gas to throw less gas. We all like to think we're Crash from Bull Durham but most of us are in fact Nuke

[@photodog13]

Interview Dr. Andrews, Kevin Wilk, Mike Reinold or Glenn Fleisig. They have evidence based research not anecdotal hypothesis.

[@edwardlasso3092]

Isn't the same "ridiculous conceit" present in American Football, where every time you go out and play that you were trained to, it could "lead to your demise" as Jeff put it (or at least, to a career-hampering or - ending injury)?

[@thedon7941]

Get rid of the pitch clock. I understand we want to speed up the game at what cause!

[@DirtyDrawers-kp3jm]

Has nothing to do with the pitch clock.

[@johnharris6655]

maybe you should not make a pitcher throw a pitch before they are ready.

[@jakebrake3000]

Pitchers chase velocity to compete with today's hitters. Very few guys with marginal stuff can pitch their way around lineups more than twice anymore. The change is going to have to be made with the mound , ball , expanded rosters etc.

[@donaldmartin5654]

Two pitchers who never broke the radar and won 300 + games..Madrid and Glavine... Control is the answer.

[@DS-gc7us]

The game is very broken they better bring back sticky or do something fast. I would never want to younger generation to be a picture as Tommy John is now not a matter of if but what. It’s all about velocity and spin rates and such a young age and is not sustainable.

[@JustMeELC]

Common sense tells you it is a combo of issues including velocity & pitch clock BUT sadly mlb will have no problem with either because ultimately this issue will save them millions sigh

[@giantsfan185]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the pitch clock argument at all. You're just using it because you don't like the pitch clock. The uptick in elbow injuries had been occurring in the years prior to the pitch clock being introduced, and it doesn't explain the increase of injuries at the youth level. Plus pitchers 30+ years ago were pitching as quickly as today and weren't have the same issues. The real problem is the overemphasis on velocity.

[@cptjockitch]

Easy solution. Allow pitchers to throw 100Mph on only 1 pitch per hitter. Any pitch thrown over 100 mph will be called a ball. People will cry about any rule but baseball went without 100 mph pitcher for damn near 100 years. Need to teach pitchers to pitch not throw. Think about this. If Greg Maddux was a high schooler or college player now he probably wouldnt get drafted in todays game.

[@MarsupialASMR]

Everybody in the comments saying stuff like "dont chase velo" "stop trying to throw hard" " stop trying to spin the ball hard" EVERY ONE OF YALL dont have a single grip on reality. Its like asking a track athlete to not sprint during a 100m race because it might lead to injury. Yall seem to not realize that velo and nasty off speed stuff lead to success on the field right? God yall are clowns

[@garycooper5645]

What about allowing the MLB teams to carry extra pitchers.The starters are going less innings each start anyhow so allow each team to use more pitchers to pitch less innings.Reduce the requirement for a win to 4 innings.So dumb anyhow,Yankees starter went 4 and a third the other day and the reliever came in to get 2 outs and got the win.

[@DennyJr22]

If anything it should be the opposite. Less pitchers on the roster means starters have to go longer with less rested bullpen arms available, meaning they can't throw 100% effort every pitch.

[@garycooper5645]

@@DennyJr22 so you believe carrying less pitchers on the roster,forcing the starters to go longer,is going to help with the injury situation for starters right now?

[@DennyJr22]

@@garycooper5645Yes, 100%. It used to be normal to have four man rotations with starters surpassing 100 pitches per start and 200 innings a season. Sure sometimes they got injured like any professional athlete but it certainly wasn't at today's rate. Currently most starters go 5 innings, 90-100 pitches or two times through the batting order, however you want to quantify it. They can throw more max effort pitches since they know there's a finish line to their start, no matter how much they’re dealing. The max velo and spin rate obsession is what is causing these injuries, and having pitchers only go for short stints allows it to happen in the first place. If starters now have to go 6-7 innings because of less available rested bullpen arms, then they have to pace themselves more. They can then only throw 80-90% effort on most pitches, as 100% on every one would burn them out too fast. I’m not saying there should be a 5 pitcher limit to MLB rosters, but the current 13 is too many and allows teams to abuse pitchers. With the standard 5 man rotation that’s 8 bullpen arms available, meaning a starter can go 5 innings of max effort, followed by 4 innings of 4 different guys going max effort with a day’s rest in between. Cut down the number of rested bullpen arms available and starters need to go longer to make up the difference, meaning they need to pace themselves better. And the MLB agrees with me, they’re considering lowering the number of pitchers on a roster to 12 as early as next season to incentivize pitchers going longer. In addition, putting a cap on the number of pitcher callups a team can make in a season would help as even the bullpen guys would need to pace themselves a bit since teams wouldn’t be able to rotate arms between the MLB and AAA to give them rest. I’m not ignorant to think this would solve the issue completely, but in my opinion it’s the best option the MLB has that’s within their power that they can quickly implement. The biggest fix would be to put more restrictions on amateur players as this max velo/spin stuff is starting super young, and the build up of doing it over the years is causing shoulder and elbow surgeries as young as high school. But the system is so disjointed it would be basically impossible to implement and enforce.

[@my2cents115]

He started throwing a curve this year. Coincidence??

[@schlafin]

Baseballs not what it used to be.

[@pdpandion4931]

I have a 15 yr old pitching in HS. He’s not a hurler and throws off-speed and breaking balls to soft contact. Most of the kids who play travel ball can’t hit him. They’ve been conditioned to expect hard and fast. There’s more than one way to pitch and play baseball.

[@tomcannizzaro5765]

Matt Allen for the Mets.

[@InessentialMotionPictures]

Panacea… Pathologic 🥵

[@Lance-Stroll]

Quit making guys fit their technique into the MLB pitching mechanics box. Let them pitch how their body wants them too. Flamethrowers burn out. Learn to naturally pitch

[@thomasjoseph3488]

Guaranteed contracts for millions of dollars will do the trick. After all, the players are glorified carnies, for all intents and purposes.

[@otismygotis3670]

Go back to simple training.

[@deshaundozier]

Stop throwing breaking balls

[@hiker-uy1bi]

Passan got a two head

[@dealswithnormiesallday]

Steroids are so good at helping people recover, that doctors will actually prescribe them to people after surgery. I myself have recovered faster from surgeries after taking steroids. Not everyone becomes a muscle bound invalid after taking steroids or peds. So, your statement is in fact incorrect.

[@MaxHesh7]

I told you goons more than a decade ago what to expect with these compact deliveries and a couple of generations of video game playing shut-ins. Now add in chasing velocity with altered radar gun readings, a ridiculous leg whip kick finish, Covid, and the de-emphasizing of throwing, running, and biking, you have a recipe for disastrous catastrophic injuries. Weight work has been terrible for Pitchers because they haven't allowed their bodies to recover and rebuild before then throwing. Nobody listened to me, and they laughed. Nobody listened to John Smoltz when he told you similar things. Now that my prediction has come to roost, you only now want to do something about it. It'll take another generation before we can reverse the effects, but I doubt anyone will make the necessary changes to reverse this epidemic.

[@user-bk6rl2jh1n]

I remember you telling us that

[@Fryed_Bryce]

Don't forget about that gosh dang rap music

[@QuikLosAngeles420]

You guys are going to ignore the pitch clock??? There are using their arm way more frequent. Wake up 😂

[@cesarmeza5331]

So this started last year, sure bud

[@shawnhalsey7705]

Oh yea, I saw every pticher rushing his pitch yesterday because of the clock and hence blowing out their arm. Did you not listen to what Passan said at all?

[@QuikLosAngeles420]

@@cesarmeza5331 No, it’s been happening for a long time but if you see the number of players injured since the pitch clock youd be surprized.

[@QuikLosAngeles420]

@@shawnhalsey7705 Listen here dingleberry. You can’t ignore the fact that the pitch clock is not helping the pitcher.

[@Sportsscuttlebutt1]

How did you get Jeff

[@allmyteamssuck2706]

I had no idea Cal Ripken had a kid in baseball, but that has to be his kid. You can see it right away in the facial features

[@callitbitch]

they don't want pitchers to last forever, if they do, they have to pay them... beings everyone throws 100+... one goes down, next guy up... wasn't the case when only a few could throw hard

[@allmyteamssuck2706]

No one explores the idea that maybe some guy's body composition is not conducive to throwing a baseball over and over as much as a pitcher does. The motion of throwing is not normal for the human body. Some guy's bodies aren't meant to be throwing the ball like that over and over and they break it's not about training or pitch count or anything. Some guys that are pitchers should not be pitchers they should be playing a different position. But they don't know that till their arm or shoulder blows up. This has happened to strider twice now and he's not even 25. His body is telling him we're not meant to do this like this.

[@manager4409]

It's why softball pitchers almost never have injuries its way easier on your arm and shoulder underhand. The human body can't really take the strain from throwing 95+ for 9 months in a row