Giving EVERY Smash Character New Moves! Ft. ESAM, PJiggles, TierZoo, Zeltik, Dabuz, TCNick3...

[@MrMockRock]

Thanks for watching everyone! This is honestly one of my favourite videos I've ever made and I'm extremely thankful to so many amazing creators for lending me their time. Please be sure to check them all out below, and let me know what you thought of the move ideas! AceStarThe3rd (Wii Fit Trainer): kzbin.info @DabuzSSB (Olimar): kzbin.info @imESAM (Samus/Pikachu): kzbin.info/door/ov9k-GvJe6siwyrpJtj3Og @MrDanishbuttercookie (Sora): kzbin.info @PJiggles (Jigglypuff): kzbin.info @pkbeats5617 (Toon Link): www.youtube.com/@pkbeats5617 @TCNick3 (Lucina): kzbin.info @TierZoo (Pit): kzbin.info @Vernias (Kirby): kzbin.info @WhyDo (Mii Brawler): kzbin.info @Zeltik (Ganondorf): kzbin.info MockRockTalk companion video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZbNgotnf8R5f9U *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Second channel:* kzbin.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/

[@Sabcy2]

For yoshi, egg throw could become an aerial, such as fair.

[@vaderwalks]

The MockRock/ESAM 17-hour move tierlist is just around the corner, I just KNOW it.

[@jonathanlgill]

@@Sabcy2 It could, but it shouldn't.

[@xnoobplayerx7715]

The mac rising uppercut is nice but that in turn poses a risk. It just stimulates more of camping mac concept since opponents need to be hit 5 times/get counter/super armoring just to get a star. Getting 3 stars just for 1 recovery chance is basically asking mac to kill himself. Even if you just need to change the animation to make it like a shoryuken still having a recovery. Youre essentially giving him 1 hitbox to try pierce through opponent's ledgeguard Id say KO punch should act like Kazuya's limit meter. If you want to blend with the arcade/NES, this can happen: AS KO punch is filled but at a higher rate, it is also a star. Mac has a boost in damages all around but maintain his neutral B. The KO punch would be nerfed. Kill at 60-90% like 1 star hit of the NES punchout, It has its own input placement, the - button. It can be blocked and it's counterable, this makes it so that Mac has to know his opponent needs to be screwed by mixups and can kill. It can also be removed by receiving at least 10% of a single hitbox damage so smash attacks works. Basically im saying is KO punch doesnt have to be the comeback factor but mac still needs to rely on it at some point

[@williamhowells806]

believe it or not edelgards combat art isnt a glitch its supposed to happen. Claude and Dimititri both have special effects Edelgards is just the best. - me a fire emblem fan

[@yobin3711]

I genuinely thought ESAM was about to suggest giving Pikachu Electric Wind God Fist when he brought up Pokken.

[@linkonedgell894]

Cause pika isn't good enough.

[@SonicTheCutehog]

He did

[@ABAgamer_]

Pikachu? B U S T E D

[@Creepo_J]

Pancake -crouchdash- ewgf

[@uwuisbad520]

he needs it

[@cullenhutchison6528]

What I learned from this video: don't let Dabuz design Olimar's moveset for Smash 6.

[@Watburnt]

Keep the bulbmin though

[@Chillaccino1]

I like the concept ngl but I would HATE fighting it

[@classierjohn6921]

i have an idea so if a yellow pikmin is net in line and you use down smash or smth you could make it dig up a bomb rock then if you throw it and it hits the opponent it would explode on contact doing insane damage but it would be slow and not have far range but you can also set it down for a timed explosion

[@butter_0021]

TCNick saying Lucina needs a projectile is the smash bros equivalent of “A Modest Proposal”.

[@9tailjeza]

let her throw a javelin or short spear

[@chefvideogame]

I don’t like the idea of giving Lucina a projectile, but I could see it worked if it was locked behind her counter.

[@billybill1270]

If Zeltik's Dead Man's Volley is meant to be Ganondorf's anti-zoning tool, I would give it the caveat that only melee attacks deflect it (effectively making it transcendent against enemy projectiles). This wouldn't affect every zoner matchup equally (Mega-Man would worry while Min Min wouldn't), but it would be a start.

[@BromanderInChief]

as a long time ganon player in most titles he’s in, I like this idea and would also implement a float to DMV, similar to PM/P+/HDR

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

(Fellow legacy Ganon player here) honestly, in all the times I've heard Dead Man's Volley brought up, I've never been a fan of the idea of letting it be deflected and have always thought it would negate the reason people wanted it, but it could really make for some hype moments if it's implemented properly like mentioned here. With some fine tuning and some more reworks and tweaks to his kit/stats we could honestly probably get away with keeping the current moveset (at least some of it like fair) and playstyle while adding in some really spicy stuff like this that not only make him more source faithful, but more dynamic and flexible in general. If they let you stall with it offstage and made it cancellable it would be an amazingly helpful recovery tool. Give it some aspect of floating like PM has and tbh that alone would probably fix a majority of his problems. Give him the quick cape swiping reflector and now he can deal with being zoned out too. Maybe even give it extra effectiveness against the volley? Maybe apply that to all reflectors? (Kazuya will have a field day lol) a lot of potential to shove all 3 things from his OoT boss fight into one move slot (orbs, float, reflect) and you could always move one to another move slot if need be. Give him a teleport up b with proper movement options (like not sending him into free fall if near ground and potentially some very difficult edge cancel tech) and we will be absolutely COOKING. one thing I'd really like to see them do is experiment more with using teleportation moves aggressively (using them to actually teleport behind someone and attack without 5 years of lag, for example), and Ganon could be a start

[@andrewzaharias1858]

For his neutral special he plays energy ball tennis

[@e.m.2168]

Also, having it where if you press the button again while the projectile is already out, you do a quick smack that’s meant for hitting the dead man’s volley back, as ganon doesn’t have all that many quick moves to hit it back

[@billybill1270]

@@e.m.2168 I would go one step further and make that smack a reflector cape, so that he can use it for other projectiles. I would also allow him to perform the cape out-of-shield (akin to Inkling and Steve) so that he can use the reflector without having to first use the volley.

[@camusreviews6877]

I feel like for Mario there’s a no brainer answer that is a representation of the entire series and replaces a very non-fundamental move with a very fundamental move. D-air being a ground pound makes perfect sense

[@KevSB07]

Ground pound is so iconic makes it a perfect candidate But I still can't let go of the awesome idea of cap-throw for side special i think cape is antiquated and unfaithful and I think cap would translate really well

[@DeepfriedBeans4492]

Maybe it’s accurate, but no, because stall and falls are shit, so that would be a massive downgrade and not actually be fun to use

[@ResistancePasta]

@@DeepfriedBeans4492 True but Mario's combo game is godly enough already. I think he can handle it.

[@MrMockRock]

I obviously considered down air for Mario, but like I bring up elsewhere in the video, stall and falls are something I’m hesitant on. Mario’s current down air is also very good, and a solid reference in its own right. You could make a case for moving current dair to his nair, but I kind of like that Mario has the most generic aerial as well. It’s tough, this is one of those instances where I wish Smash could have light and heavy aerials

[@flaco3462]

@@MrMockRock I think that Mario's neutral air should one hundred percent be his spin attack from Mario Galaxy, the very first thing he learns how to do thanks to the Baby Luma. It could be a good move and a good reference at the same time.

[@Andreecals]

Dabuz now officially holds the title of "most casual description of a terrific nightmare"

[@neoronin3325]

59:12 The ender pearl can be purchased from a cleric villager, so having the move use an emerald resource makes even more sense

[@Panda10million]

I was about to say this. Glad someone else noticed it

[@potatojuiceultra]

ok hear me out: in speedruns, the main way ender pearls are obtained is by trading gold to piglins. so instead of creating a new material, have the ender pearl consume gold

[@whiffunderscore703]

MockRock: Hey Dabuz what move for Olimar would you change? Dabuz: yes

[@jobot0114]

The ultimate SSBU content creator collab.

[@CT-1118]

Super Smash Bros Ultimate... Ultimate?

[@rells2311]

Everyone is here

[@kestrelynn]

Tcnick and Dabuz just making their favourite characters op and I respect that

[@GlitchanBlack]

Nick could have replaced Lucina’s Counter with Charisma as a stat buff move like Wii Fit Trainer’s Deep Breathing… alas, it is what it is.

[@bonezxz]

everyone: adding cool mechanics and moves from their characters popular games WhyDo: GIVE ME MY FAIR BACK

[@JacobBush16]

Wolf is perfect. Don’t you dare touch my main good boy. “Wolf gets double machine guns.” Go on…

[@stormRed]

I love how Dabuz idea is to basically make Olimar into Rosalina

[@McRoni51]

Tbh, it makes more sense than the current moveset lol

[@DeertickDaniel]

I just wish they’d make pikmin effects more unique

[@fan.of.nintendo]

No way Vernias wants Kirby to have 13 total jumps 😭

[@freedfg6694]

I legitimately wouldn't mind if Kirby's upB was wing, but yeah, Id treat it more like villager but with the hitboxes. You have a certain amount of inputs to increase lift but it would 100% put him in freefall at the end.

[@flaco3462]

Kirby's up special should be High Jump, chargable, super strong, and goes really fucking far and can even go to the side a little. Simple, easy, done. Hell you can even make it go down by holding down like in Return To Dreamland.

[@uwuisbad520]

He deserves those jumps

[@kirbyofthestarsfan]

I legitimately don't think he even realized what consequences that'd bring when coming up with that move That and the fact it sounds gimpable as hell, also the fact that ability requires so much use of the hat to function makes it far more out of reach than his other ability moves (and they're likely avoided because they'd clip so bad with the hats he gets from Neutral b)

[@GreenFire729]

Let him cook

[@TaleOfTheToaster]

Honestly shocked that Jigglypuff didn't gain a Fairy-type move here but maybe that will appear in the follow-up video. PJiggles' Bounce still sounds fun and I hope he also got the Shulk segment further into the video

[@enlongjones2394]

If we still had custom specials, they could give Jigglypuff Disarming Voice as a swap for Sing.

[@enlongjones2394]

You know whatd be funny? Changing Jigglypuff’s grab and throw animations to be a cartoony big ball of violence. As a reference to the Fairy-type move Play Rough.

[@Weebfox]

I liked the bounce idea A LOT

[@CraftyScotty99]

Disarming Voice did appear in the follow-up video and it replaced rollout because the move is useless.

[@Matt-qk8yf]

That Gooigi idea is so awesome. Luigi having a gameplan as cool as a puppet character as opposed to just being a grab gimmick would be awesome

[@CT-1118]

Maybe for Mario's hammer, it could do something where it does extra damage if you hit the attack button at the moment you hit the enemy, they did something like that in Mario and Luigi I think

[@TheRoboKitty]

He knows about timed hits!

[@brimfire7536]

"Let's a go!" "Okie dokie!"

[@Watburnt]

Or going in a paper mario style you could get more final smash meter if you do a trick afterword's by quickly pressing a afterwords

[@illford]

​@@TheRoboKittyGeno in PM has this on every move, except for jab I think, and it's pretty cool

[@Vernias]

Kirby needs it man

[@MrMockRock]

Your idea is such BS and you know it, but I’m kind of into it lol

[@trumanw1999]

Agreed fr

[@Endershock1678]

I do like the idea, but I think it's a bit too far. To balance it, I think using it should consume one of his jumps and let him do a single flap upwards with a hitbox, but let him go way faster, a bit higher, and have the hitbox, giving him airspeed closer to the likes of Puff or Yoshi, or if he holds straight up while using it, giving him a slightly higher leap up, closer to say... Wolf or maybe even as much as Joker, but goes straight up with starts with no forward momentum unless he uses another jump. It should also recharge slowly over time, similar to Hero's mana, but with an indicator everytime he uses it, like a wonderwing that recharges, that way he can't use it completely in place of his jumps, and force you to be a bit more strategic, but also let him recharge it in the air, unlike ROB's gas.

[@kirbyofthestarsfan]

I sensed a lot of Fan Myopia in that move, where the thought makes sense from a kirby veteran's standpoint without realizing at all what would it look like to a normal player. Very disappointed in that move choice

[@theovereditedarena5672]

Yes

[@juanddg4737]

23:35 "In Kid Icarus, the harp is a rare item Pit can find which immediately converts all hostile enemies in the vicinity to healing items that Pit can pick up." But...the harp only gives out mallets/hearts, and the hearts in the game are a currency, not a healing item.

[@MrMockRock]

They do buy healing items though

[@togglebott7748]

also, saying we should get rid of a reference to a newer game in favor of a reference to an older game is really stupid

[@togglebott7748]

Especially when the new reference works perfectly and is a great but not op move lol

[@jmurray1110]

Yeah that change is awful It’s removing a versatile defensive move that can occasionally gimp recoveries for a barely useful magnetic pull that only affects healing items Like it’s literally useless in a competitive setting

[@classy_cramorant9405]

@@togglebott7748Pit has far too many things from the newer games and we are really lacking things from the original.

[@Veecy]

It's crazy to hear you say "heavyweight projectile swordfighter" is your dream archetype because that's also exactly mine

[@MrMockRock]

Canon Ike, canon Ganon. Please.

[@SSM24_]

Same lmao. Swordfighters, zoners, and heavyweights are probably my 3 favorite archetypes - a character that combined all 3 of those aspects would be fantastic.

[@MomQuestionMark]

@@SSM24_ big link gets really close

[@TCNick3]

Look Gary there I am!!

[@MrMockRock]

Thanks for making Lucina more annoying man!

[@TCNick3]

My pleasure 🤩

[@Watsup19]

For Chrom and Lucina, I'm surprised neither chose to use a javelin as their projectile. This could be a reference to their promoted Great Lord class that has access to lances rather than a class they have to change into.

[@powerj1771]

Right?!? Doesn’t even have to be a javelin could be the special lance they use from feh

[@TARDISES]

I'd say a bow works for Lucina... because that's the direction Engage opted to take her in as an Emblem, alongside swords for obvious reasons. Whether they reference a FEH alt (which would parallel the Chrom alt the other reply referred to) or just give her the Parthia like she provides in Engage, there's definitely official precedent to draw from now. Sure, this video - and presumably your comment - predates Engage, but still.

[@Casual_PKBeats]

The video turned out great! I really loved most of these recommendations, it shows a lot of care and thought, and really, REALLY makes me wish that, in the next Smash game, they get more liberal with altering past character's movesets. Great to see everyone else join in, too! Originally I was heavily considering giving Toon Link a move/item from The Minish Cap, but for a similar reason as to why you didn't give Young Link any masks, it would've felt weird to have everything else about Toon Link be from Wind Waker, and just throw in a Minish Cap move. Though, to be fair, Young Link himself isn't very consistent in his own character, since in Ocarina of Time he can't use bows or hookshots. I think if they reskinned those two items (alongside the sword and shield) to look more like the Majora's Mask counterpart, that could've worked a lot better, and adding a mask move that cycles between a few would be dope. But for Toon Link, I dunno, he feels a lot more specifically "Wind Waker". This topic is a really fun one to discuss, and even if my knowledge about the series represented in Smash is heavily... lopsided... it's still super interesting to theorize about different, potentially better movesets! Great video again, and I hope you have an awesome new year :)

[@MrMockRock]

Appreciate the insight man! For the record, I had no issue whatsoever with chucking in references from wherever I felt like haha, but I definitely get the more cohesive philosophy and Hammer Link would be sick. Thanks again for your voice and music!

[@Magic_Ice]

Thank you Thank you Thank you for doing the hammer spin for Dedede! It’s one of my favorite moves in the Kirby series and Dedede having a relatively fast burst movement option would be my dream.

[@steindororngunnarsson3846]

Would be cool if he or Kirby could throw the hammer like kirby can do in the games but in exchange they lose the hammer for a few seconds like wario's bike

[@Iamverykarpy]

i mean he does have down tilt which has done great service for me

[@MsDarkz123]

I can't trade Jet Hammer though.

[@dextervepps8794]

I think, especially after inkling proved it could work mechanically, characters should have a "shield+B" special. And moving the large number of counters to the shield special slot.

[@LexSchilperoord]

This works beautifully, even Steve uses it to respawn the crafting table

[@eyitsnae1481]

This is actually interesting. If counters were redirected to only occur by pressing the B-button either directly after a perfect shield is performed or immediately during an attack being negated via a spot-dodge would actually make sense as a literal "counter-attack" and could open up the potential for so many FE characters getting new down-specials and vastly improve peoples perception of a very copy/paste concept given to so many fighters.

[@MegaGeewee]

Instead of or maybe in addition to moving counters to it, I would move all character transformations to it, so the Pokémon trainer would get access to actual down B moves (I still miss you Rock Smash please come back) and Zelda/Shiek would be a thing again while not losing a move.

[@chicken0w044]

The problem with that is countering in the air

[@rusticdebris8021]

I'd love to see Pokemon Trainer's switch Pokemon actually change to Shield + B! Give Charizard Rock Smash back, and give new options to Ivysaur and Squirtle.

[@stanfrombelgium]

The Captain Falcon taunt hitbox would be SO funny.

[@DarkAura19]

I can't get over how you edited Zeltik's bit like one of his own documentary-as-hell videos. Well played.

[@luckylucas8596]

I think giving Lucina a Bow is a stretch. Instead, I’d give her a Javelin since the Great Lord class that see promotes to gets access to lances. It’d still be a projectile, but it would make more sense than a bow and arrow.

[@Stella-onehalf]

the dabuz segment made me laugh hysterically and not stop for half an hour, he's such a great dude lol

[@UniqueHandles]

Almost as big of a crossover as Ultimate itself

[@alexmyska7244]

Something I think would be super cool (and gets more Mario Sports rep in the game) is to also have Wario do a vocalization whenever he uses his ground-pound down air: “Butt Smash!” It comes from Mario Strikers Charged, and, as an additional perk, buries opponents in that game. This could be a way to make it a better stall-and-fall then most of them

[@Weebfox]

Super cool video idea and a really fun watch! Also imagining Kirby having 10 jumps immediately made me think of Kirby jumping and just stalling under the stage for the whole match

[@illford]

Yeah maybe he only needs 4 but can only act out on the first two and the last ones when cancelled out him into special fall

[@DeertickDaniel]

Puff has pound and that’s pretty much a half jump

[@Kyleand3rror]

I was thinking that since Link already has 2 versions of spin attack (one for aerial one for grounded), his aerial version would be revalis gale, and his grounded would add a stun/electric effect if charged fully for urbosa's fury. His shield would have a neat Daruk animation (purely graphical), and dying would trigger a mipha's grace animation on respawn.

[@comet242]

Ooh, I like that a lot!

[@hunbi1875]

i feel like it should be the other way around. revalis gale only works on the ground in breath of the wild. honestly they could keep aerial spin attack

[@CrazyHand7894]

@@hunbi1875 True, but a grounded Revali's Gale in Smash would be pretty much useless.

[@fr0stdr4ke95]

Honestly. You could do something for all of the champions just as a way to buff him. Revali's Gale would allow him to glide after the upwards gust, and said glide could be cancelled into a dair. It could charge slower but with much heavier knockback thanks to Urbosa's Furry. Daruk's Protection could be something akin to parry armor, allowing him to tank a few weak hits for a set amount of time, or just making Link's Parry stun opponents with a unique animation. Mipha's is too pure of a woman for cheese and bs, so she would just revive Link after death. If you can't tell. I am a massive Zelda fan and as a casual player balance in Smash doesn't mean a damn thing to me. I would love to redesign all of the Zelda characters based on references to their home series or even previous Smash games. After a bit of thinking. Screw it. Mipha is my favorite champion. I want to give her some absolute nonsense. Make her down b heal Link. And make it a counter. Something like Flurry Rush and Link heals less the more the move is used during a single stock.

[@enlongjones2394]

When Wing Kirby was mentioned, I first thought “what if he did the shuttle loop?” And then I remembered that’s just Meta Knight’s up-air.

[@insomniacnerd5592]

I’d love to see an entire moveset revamp for characters like Ganon and Sonic from you, honestly. That Isabelle idea was genius, by the way. Love it.

[@illford]

Simple solution for Sonic is port PM/P+ sonic. Idk what they did but making Spindash go into a slide kick and making him gain more from combos does a lot to make him more enjoyable to fight against

[@TS6815]

"If a new move already exists as an item, I'm fine with that. Remove it if needed" I definitely appreciate the foreshadowing for giving one of the Pits the sniper staff

[@Novum228]

For Jigglypuff’s bounce, you could just make her leap in the air if she’s on ground before falling, akin to Bowser Bomb

[@Gemarald]

Content creators collaborating and being featured on videos is so great to see, it really makes it feel like it's a community. This is the biggest crossover since Endgame.

[@LillithLilligant]

Ender pearls are obtainable via emeralds through the cleric villager. Whilst it's not guaranteed that a cleric has this trade, this trade has been used in multiple speedruns of Minecraft and is a common strategy for 1.16+ Any % Glitchless. So having emeralds be used for ender pearls makes complete sense.

[@MrMockRock]

Ah okay I missed that, thanks!

[@LillithLilligant]

@@MrMockRock of course, keep up the great content. This video was great and was glad to see other content creators make an appearance for their characters. :D

[@idavid8391]

36:20 A cool addition would also be if you could jump at the apex of this dash attack!

[@eriknelson3238]

wait that pac-man clip at 46:10 was absolutely nuts what the hell was that

[@petrie911]

That Duck Hunt up special is an awesome idea. Way more iconic than the current flappy bird.

[@tomrees82]

2:43 I would change DKs DownB from midair so that it's the ground pound move from DK64.

[@Banana_D]

I don't know about giving Reefslider to Inkling. Like you said with Joker and Bayo, making the change fit in with their moveset is important, and Inking using a special with her Final Smash and ...side B? Also if it was side B it would have to have a much smaller explosion hitbox which would take away the power you feel using it in Splatoon 3. I would keep Roller as side B and make dash attack an Inkbrush roll, with a popup hitbox for combos. Unrelated, but as bonus for more weapon diversity I would change the animations for roll and shield become a Dualie dodge roll and Brella shield respectively Still, loved the video! Great sendoff to 2022 :)

[@K0Z1E]

31:45 thats the anime with the french theif

[@memelord696]

I love how you found a way to not change falcon but give him a taunt like luigi

[@MoonGhostDoodles]

33:50 I think a better way to handle Power-Up Punch as a jab would be to have it be tied to aura rather than usage. Basically a Ganondorf-like jab that gains slightly more knockback the more aura Lucario has.

[@CrazyHand7894]

So... like every other move Lucario has?

[@MoonGhostDoodles]

@@CrazyHand7894 it’d be more powerful than his standard kit. Like how his special moves get bigger power increases over his aerials, tilts, etc.

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

I really love the idea of Little Mac having his Star mechanic and the Star Punch, and have thought about it for years at this point. Personally I wouldn't give him stars just for landing consecutive hits, but he could gain them by hitting opponents during the start-up frames of their attacks like how you can gain Stars in Punch-Out by very specifically timing punches to interrupt the opponents' attacks, or by hitting them during the start-up or end-lag of rolls and dodges. Would also be a great, fitting little detail if you get a Star for hitting the opponent while they taunt.

[@colinmeier8140]

Kirby’s forward tilt should reference one of the most popular ability in Kirby’s games, beam, instead of a kick for his forward tilt, he would whip out his beam staff and wave it in front like he does in the games

[@gyroh6593]

For Pikachu. Volt Tackle makes a lot more sense. Only he can learn it in the games, and it’s one of his signature moves in the anime. It should obviously replace his side special which is just a clone of Luigi’s. It should damage him just like Charizard’s Flare Blitz since both moves have the exact same properties except a different element. And the way that it works could be similar to Wario’s custom shoulder bash move that was added in project Melee and Smash 64 remix.

[@kwagz3314]

What would Pikachu’s Final Smash be then?

[@keagandavidson4250]

Watching Mario strikers even for 10 seconds gave me chills. I love that game to no end.

[@MrDanishbuttercookie]

Very epic Still wish we had KH2 Sora 😔

[@MrMockRock]

I came into this video with no opinion on Sora but after doing the research, me too 😕

[@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17]

Honestly, I appreciate the change you made to Yoshi. I was thinking you were gonna include something from a Mario game appearance, but you went outside the box, I like it! There are a lot of "character flies freely" Up Specials in this video though, so maybe we should consider replacing one of his moves with fire or ice breath, as a reference to the melons

[@yobin3711]

I definitely think Mythra's forward Smash should be based off Rex's Double Spinning Edge art for something akin to Sheik or ZSS'. When Mythra has the Massive Melee Mythra aux core equipped (which changes her appearance to give her the Smash Bros tights), she can reach a crit rate of over 50%. She also has a skill that recharges her arts if she can land a crit. When the highest level of this skill is unlocked, this makes spamming Double Spinning Edge the optimal strategy when using Mythra because it hits twice and thus has double the chance to crit. Double Spinning Edge with Mythra is something of a meme that I think should definitely be part of her kit.

[@SP_Sour]

SO many good ideas here. -I actually thought of the Mario hammer side smash too! Such a glaring omission in Smash. -G&W's Pinball down tilt would work well enough, but it's very funny to consider when you look at his down tilt from Melee and see that it's...basically the same thing. His _current_ down tilt is clearly a Manhole reference, but the original one just looks like flipping a mat of some kind, not far off from the pinball flipper idea. It even had the same proposed functionality-a decent poke and combo launcher. Oh how the mighty have fallen. -Ryu's V-Trigger mechanic sounds good, but more importantly I think it would complete representing the whole SF series. SFI's system of all 3 attack strengths being on the same button*; SFII's sound effects; SFIII's parry; SFIV's Focus Attack; and now SFV's V-Trigger. (*Early SFI cabinets had 2 big buttons where you'd punch them lighter or harder for the different attack strengths, it was only later that they got rid of this. It sucked for many reasons.) -Back Knuckle is a good idea for Terry, but probably only if you could cancel into it from jab 1, like how in KoF you can cancel normals into command normals. Otherwise, if it was slower, I think most players would end up just using down tilt instead since it's fast and would still start the same combos. (And I wish Rising Tackle was a proper DP motion, maybe it could be a backward DP? I just hate charge moves...)

[@treesnip5667]

When ESAM suggested giving Samus something with ice, what I imagine is replacing the super missile with the ice missile. I feel like you don't see the super missile much at all in Smash so giving it more unique attributes would be cool.

[@illford]

You ever heard of PM, I think you'd like PM Samus

[@perfumedgnat9659]

I kinda like ice homing missiles (samus's non stick-flick side special)

[@chessplayer6632]

50:45 Fire Emblem crit animations are actually so epic

[@ankydarkness]

Damn that Kirby idea is straight fire.

[@OliyTC]

51:20 as a resident Splatoon nerd: Reefslider would make for a great final smash (since it's a special weapon) but it would not represent the concept well if it was even a moderately repeatable move. I like the roller being moved to a dash attack, but dualie dodge roll or a charger long-range attack would be a lot more fitting as a standard move

[@Onyxs]

Even then, Reefslider would be kind of a boring FS, if anything Booyah Bomb would be way more fun and interesting for a new FS

[@juniperrodley9843]

Love how excited Dabuz always seems for the characters he plays :)

[@EpicBob3664]

22:03 I feel like a Javelin would fit Chrom a bit better than a Hand Axe; he can use Javelins when promoted to Great Lord in Awakening.

[@jaye4521]

I really like the idea of pulling something from the original Kid Icarus for Pit. Tbh I'd actually like to see him be rebuilt with mostly that game in mind while Dark Pit keeps the Uprising stuff.

[@shadowhunter9976]

In that case may I recommend an obscure game called Super Smash Bros Brawl?

[@BlondeBarbarian]

I agree! I would make the Mallet his side B.

[@aegis408]

I’ll just say keep his Guardian Orbitars, as Down B, those guys are way too underutilized and are a great Go Away option

[@illford]

​@@shadowhunter9976Brawl pit is so fucking bad I don't want to see that shit return. Brawl Side B is useless the shield is fine tho ngl

[@LateOne15]

When TCNick started talking about a project for Lucina, I was kinda excited, but then he made it the bow. I suppose it’s still a good reference, but she can use lances in her Great Lord class so if I had to choose a projectile it would absolutely be a javelin.

[@fivell1481]

I do feel like the bow is a more iconic pick for Lucina based on her appearances in games other than awakening but I'd still love to see a javelin implemented, smash doesn't have enough lances.

[@idavid8391]

Forgot to comment earlier, but GOATED list of creators, sir. You did incredible with this video, both in style and substance. Also, I adore the rock Pikmin in the thumbnail. Excellent touch.

[@halt1931]

"Wii fit trainer's projectile isn't as strong as Samus's, so let's give her monado arts" whuh-

[@Boonetube27]

29:55 Not really, the gordo is a very forward oriented b move, and you can’t effect an angle easily with down b as you can with side-b

[@captainphoton1693]

DK : switch his dash attack for his side B. The roll. Jump cancelable like in the games. The dash attack would then be something that I didn't think of because iv got more exciting ideas. I would give his a Zair. A slow air grab that directly put in cargo. And if you want to be crazy I would also replace his aerial up B for a canon.

[@roe_bro]

Yknow Vernias's segment really makes me think, it'd be quite interesting if Kirby could be a kind of stance character, with each special changing his copy hat and making his normals different, whether totally different or just changing hitboxes data. Like the hammer would be easy enough to tweak for most moves for side B with slower bigger harder hitboxes, and like Vern said Wings could replace up b making for slightly longer but still relatively fast and weak hitboxes (and obv the up b jump change adding hitboxes to them), though down b would probably have to be completely redone to be another copy ability. ...though that would kind of work awkwardly with the swallow which HAS to stay there, maybe instead of one move for every char, they could have a few movesets that would be shared amongst a few different characters, could be an interesting video to categorize Smash characters by what copy ability they would fit into (though likely not fitting your channel) but I'm putting too many ideas into one comment lol Obviously all infeasible dev time wise but interesting to think about design wise

[@FedoraKirb]

I also thought about Inhale giving Kirby one of a set amount of copy abilities which change his four Special Moves (either letting him copy the opponent’s Neutral special or just getting a default one). Link would give Sword, Pikachu would give Spark, Palutena would give Beam, Ryu would give Fighter, etc. Keep the cute hats but “generalize” them otherwise. Also wildly impractical, though, unless we lose out on copying the Neutral special, which is a big part of the move’s appeal.

[@moongirl-d9h]

vernias is like "kirby's up b has not changed since 64" like neither has any other move in his kit but like his forward air

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Characters like Kirby, Young Link, Ganondorf, Wario, and Sonic can really benefit from new moves that accurately represent how they are in their own games (especially Ganondorf since he has very few moves from his source material, his archetype in Smash doesn't accurately represent how he fights in the Zelda series, and is still cloned from Captain Falcon).

[@Jackaljkljkl]

Juniors Tilts are a write-off at the moment. Make them all generic Tilt attacks with the brush, but also paints an "M" on the floor in front with Down Tilt, sends out a weak paint projectile with Forward Tilt, and paints an 'M" on low platforms with Up Tilt. These M's cause a trip, if the opponent walks over them or lands on them. As an Easter egg, FLUDD could remove them.

[@perturbo4253]

So, I was watching this video in the background with a couple of friends while we were playing Minecraft. As a joke we play the Dream speedrun music in the background while we play (it's ironic). The bit about the enderpearl and trading came out and we all just burst out laughing, and it took us a while to get back into the game This probably makes 0 sense to like most of you but I still wanted to say this

[@ObbyFeathersnoot]

One more effect that bounce should have is that it is more like a charging move. In the sense that you don't have to hold the button down to keep using it. You're just put in the bounce state once used. At that point, you should be able to cancel the bounce with a jump or air dodge. That would make the move ridiculously entertaining because it makes jiggs harder to predict in the air. It would be like fighting an even more air focused Ribbon Girl from arms. Minus the ridiculous range.

[@Hatsworthful]

On this topic i still feel that mac's counter should inflict some kind of stun instead of just being a hit. Its the main mechanic of his game damnit

[@pogothepurple3826]

Dude, thank you for the long-form content. I'm a lifelong gamer who just got my switch recently, and these videos along with the 4 hour BotW video have been amazing material to pass the time at work while I daydream of 'Tendo! Thanks for the kahntent, Mister!

[@OtherMomo]

The way the bulborb pikmin was described sounds like a low damage mii swordfighter tornado that pierces shields

[@d-tergent7899]

I love what HDR does with Ridley. Down air isn't the pogo, but is instead a tail swipe with a lot of range that scoops up enemies. Tail pogo becomes air down special, Ridley bounces with it if it hits terrain or another player. Notably, it still has it's critical sweetspot, instead of super high damage it's a spike, it also still has it's major shield damage.

[@alphakrab5022]

53:30 To be honest, this is a really bad idea. The vast majority of SSBU players are casual players and have never heard of the Isabelle+Doom slayer ship. This would just feel very weird and out of place for them, on the edge of funny weird. The only thing I can see with this idea is a Mii costume, that would be fun. I know no one cares about my opinion but hey what you're gonna do?

[@kirbyofthestarsfan]

Yeah, I really think that suggestion reeks of terminally online rather than an actual healthy change for the character. It just sounds super unprofessional as an actual thing to suggest and threw me completely out of the video

[@Stock_Junction]

20:04 I was actually thinking that you can tap neutral B for Warlock Punch, but hold the button to summon the Dead Man's Volley orb. How is he going to reflect the orb? Simple: Change his jab to him hitting with his cape instead of his hand so it can be a reflector move. In an age where characters can have reflectors that isn't a special like Ness/Lucas' forward smash, Min Min's up smash, and Kazuya's double dash attack input; it's not unreasonable to have Ganondorf's jab be a reflector also

[@tolotos95]

As a regular Byleth-player, I would love if their DownB was your interpretation of Raging Storm. And Shulk's Monado Purge could potentially make him a viable pick against Amiibos. And yeah, Ike is great.

[@Snack_Bomb]

Luigi should have his down smash replaced by his star hit in Super Sluggers and it's just down special on steroids

[@Randallroks]

You mention the whole 'not using moves from unreleased games' when stuff from like Luigi's poltergust up to Roy being an unreleased character for its time was a thing for Smash for so long.

[@Naggfruit]

🤦

[@zechariahcaraballo8765]

56:00 the reason hero gets critical hits but other rpg characters cant is because dragon quest was one of the first rpg to have them and was the game that made them popular

[@DrAqua2Fresh]

A few changes I personally would prefer: Zelda using Light Arrows is a good idea, but I'm also a big fan of implementing things from the games the characters come from, so maybe change Zelda's Down B to the Sand Rod, a low range upward hitting projectile that spawns a block of sand about as high as Zelda. It would do low damage and knockback, mostly used as a quick "get off me" button. The sand block lasts for about 3 seconds before dispersing, otherwise it disappears if you use the move again or it gets hit by anything that causes knockback. Young Link is based off of his design from Ocarina of Time, so I'm less of a fan of him using a bow in the first place. Instead of Fire/Ice arrows, change his Neutral B to the Slingshot. Instead of the Slingshot knocking enemies into the air like Fire Arrows, they could instead have a slightly longer stun time than normal arrows, allowing Y!Link to get closer safer while also continuing to give combo options. Maybe give them a different effect in the air, changing the launch direction downwards, but not in a spike. Link I would honestly just change the property of his Spin Attack both on the ground and in the air. On the ground, charging it summons Urbosa's Fury, extending the hitbox a little further and adding a shock effect if hit by the bolts. In the air, allow Link to charge Up B slightly to summon Revali's Gale, increasing the height and amount of Spins the attack has. Ganondorf, Zeltik completely nailed perfectly. That's one of the main changes I would want, but if I had to choose one other thing to change about Ganon, I would change his Up B. Instead of his current recovery, I would change his Up B to be one of the moves he does in Ocarina of Time. For this new Up B, Ganon will leap into the air and levitate, increasing his horizontal movement speed in the process. Furthermore, if you press the B button again, Ganon slams downwards, and if he makes contact with the stage, produces a shockwave that covers a medium distance. The slam will also spike if hit in the air, but the rising into a levitate portion deals no damage or knockback. Again, Toon Link got nailed almost perfectly by PKBeats, the only change I would add is it's position. I would instead replace Bombs with the Skull Hammer, as I feel that the Boomerang is a more whimsical attack, and therefore more indicative of The Wind Waker. Either way, adding the Skull Hammer is a fantastic way to finally represent a (somewhat)staple item in the franchise!

[@bdt2002gaming]

Hear me out: Pichu’s ukulele from the Ranger spin-off series. Pokémon spin-offs as a whole have been almost completely ignored amongst Smash representation, and this would allow Pichu to have a unique Neutral Special not shared with Pikachu that still utilizes electricity for the self-damage mechanic. Faster start-up is compensated for by the higher end lag of having to put the ukulele away.

[@Lucario-Knight_Aura]

I actually had the same idea about Lucario getting Power-Up Punch, it's a move he's been getting more and more known for similar to Aura Sphere and Bone Rush However, I thought about it more as a Side B replacement, especially imagining how it works in Pokemon Unite where Lucario charges and then dashes forward. The longer it's held, the stronger the attack is, plus when used it gives Lucario an Aura boost similar to what you said, though I would scale it to how long it's charged as well I love Force Palm and it is currently one of Lucario's few kill confirms, but PuP would give him so much more in options. Though even still I agree that jab needs to be changed regardless lol Love this video idea

[@Zitsanrael1117]

The one part of Sora that I thought was bizarre was that they used a sort of "pseudo command deck" style from BbS, Re:Coded, and DDD for his neutral special even though he's primarily based on KH1. What I would've done would be to give him an MP meter, though it would be the one from KH2 instead (where it can't refill until it's empty and then it enters a recharge period), and then make the down special open the magic menu from KH1 with every spell being available except Stopga since I think that one would just be too unbalanced and toxic. This could also free up the neutral special for Strike Raid. The spells would be rather potent as well since they're now tied to a resource and operate mostly like they do in KH1: Firaga would travel relatively quickly, slightly home in on a nearby target, and do decent damage but hardly any knockback, hit-stun, or shield damage and would cost the least MP. This would also be the only spell that can be fired continuously though like B&K's neutral special the power of each shot would decrease with each cast. Blizzaga would lose its multi-hit and freezing properties that it currently has, but the coverage would increase both vertically and horizontally, and would just deal one solid hit that would deal good damage and knockback with a sweet spot where the ice particles materialize adding some extra damage. Thundaga, instead of dropping directly on a target would drop directly on Sora providing AoE coverage and being the strongest offensive spell in terms of damage and knockback but coming with higher start up and end lag and costing the most MP of the 3. Though it would also deal decent shield pushback too. Curaga was one I considered leaving out since at face value it seems like it'd be kind of broken, but Hero has a heal spell too and it's balanced by only being usable twice per stock, not giving much health back per cast, and being random when it can actually be used. So for Sora's I decided that in addition to the canonical trait of it completely depleting your MP, it would require your MP meter to be completely full to use and it could only be used once per stock, though I'm upping the value healed to 25% compared to Hero's 11%. Also, this may be going a little bit to far but what the hell, Sora is the last DLC fighter so let's give him a little bit of cheese and also give him Leaf Bracer, so he becomes completely intangible when casting Curaga. Aeroga is another one that I think needs a little extra tuning, so what I've got is that it slightly reduces damage that Sora takes (but not knockback) and any opponent that touches it takes slight damage at set intervals too (but again, no knockback or hit stun), no other spells can be used while it's active, and that it's only usable once per MP recharge rather than once per stock like Curaga. Now for its time limit I was considering 11 seconds like Hero's Bounce but since it's a spell you can freely choose unlike the randomness behind Hero's spells let's down it to 8 seconds. And finally Graviga, I don't think would work in its canonical form so for this one I decided to make it a trap spell, in the same vein as Isabelle's down special. Sora creates a little well of energy on the ground in front of him and anyone who trips it is slowed down for about a second. We definitely don't need another Smash 4 Bayonetta Witch Time with 3 WHOLE SECONDS of slow down, so I think 1 second would be more fair. Also like Isabelle's, there can only be one Graviga out at a time and it will disappear after a short period. I know this whole system would take a lot of work to implement, but hot damn I feel like it would have been a lot of fun.

[@AlexGonzalez-mr8mr]

I think Samus's dash attack might be based on the Speed Booster already, given how similar it looks to the version in Dread.

[@illford]

That would be dread being influenced by smash tho. The speed booster is supposed to speed her up over time which is the important part

[@perfumedgnat9659]

Samus's dash attack is based on the horizontal shinespark, specifically from Super Metroid

[@ondrag8421]

I subscribed as soon as i saw the intro

[@katsoupman3218]

I don’t think this man realizes that he’s giving inkling Steve’s minecart Except it’s faster And invincible while traveling And kills the same while moving forward Obviously these things would change, but I love the idea

[@Kyara7]

The main issue is that you're being stuck in the exploding attack animation no matter what, whereas Steve can jump out of the minecart for no commitment Reef slider is super committal in comparison

[@katsoupman3218]

@@Kyara7 Gonna depend on the endlag, cause I imagine if it’s the same as it is right now, you’ll just fight the opponent instead of being punished for doing a bad option

[@Kyara7]

@@katsoupman3218 That's fair enough. I would imagine that if reef slider was put into smash, it would be given considerable endlag.

[@vossboss220]

Ok at first I wasn't on board with replacing down smash yoyo but after hearing your Lucas up smash parallel im sold

[@milos1967]

I really, *really* wish mario had the mid-air dive that he does in odyssey/sunshine/64 as his side special. One of my favorite parts of controlling him in those games, and it would be a really cool movement option in smash, depending on how it was implemented. Also, make it edgecancelable, because everything should be edgcancelable, because it's a sick mechanic and I love it.

[@TheTrueBrawler]

I wouldn't pick that. Mario is a character that fundamentally needs a rework that goes WELL BEYOND the scope of this video, and I would absolutely agree that the Dive should be apart of that rework, but the Dive is definitely lower on the list of changes that need to be made. If only one move could be changed, then it absolutely has to be the Ground Pound DAir. I would prioritize that change above all else, moving current DAir into the NAir slot and current NAir into the FAir slot (ideally with an animation change that ties it closer to the kick from Mario 64 as it seems to be mostly based on). If that's off the table for one reason or another, then retiring the Cape FSpecial for Cappy would be my second pick, and retiring the Fire Palm Heel FSmash for the Hammer would be my third.

[@captainphoton1693]

Ganondorf : I had this idea for a while by this video improved it. What if he had a reflector on his neutral B, his cape, you hold it like jokers revolt. But if you hold it long enouth without reflecting anything. Or by replacing the projectile absorbed. He would throw the volley ball of darkness I already can't remember the name.

[@theillusionist1494]

I know all the focus (rightfully) gets put onto his special moves, but can somebody please explain to me why the hell Kirby's down tilt isn't the slide kick

[@nightey975]

2:43 I’d keep the property & health of Donkey Kong’s barrel. But I want to go further. Much like Steve’s crafting table, a blue oil barrel will show up wherever DK spawns and it can be broken. And when DK uses his side special nearby it, will have a frame 20 startup compared his default barrel, which I’d like to have a frame 12 startup & send opponents up for combos. The blue barrel will have a faster travel speed & be a multi-hit, with the finisher sending opponents forward to be an okay kill move. Also why do you want to replace Dedede’s Gordos with hammer spin on 29:55? Why not move hammer spin to his dash attack or down smash?

[@mrbister8714]

I feel like some things like “Mario’s forward smash eats projectiles to reference how it behaves in his home series and has a timing mechanic too” feel very muddied to me, like it’s not fitting a general design direction and instead just want to reference for the sake of reference. A simple hammer swing would be enough, are these kind of things just for the sake of making the reference stronger all that necessary? That’s how I feel at least

[@MrMockRock]

That’ll depend on the person, but for me, yes, I strongly prefer concrete references. One of the classic appeals of crossover games is the “now we can finally figure out if Mario can beat up Sonic” thing. Obviously that’s not ACTUALLY how Smash works, but I tend to like characters more when it really feels like the devs are trying to answer that question.

[@mrbister8714]

@@MrMockRock I personally disagree but I can see where you’re coming from to an extent

[@Josue_S_6411]

I think Mario's current forward smash could stay. Paper Mario should be a newcomer so give him te hammer instead. Here's what I would change in Mario's moveset: Neutral Aerial: Spin Attack (Galaxy) Down Aerial: Ground Pound (Not a meteor smash) Side Special: Cappy Throw (Serves as recovery, an attack and a reflector) Final Smash: Wonder Flower (Not sure exactly what it wluld do, but would be crazy and a better move than the Mario Finale, possibly a combination of multiple wonder effects).

[@Halfwit_658]

29:55 u mentioning gordos scared the life outta me at first. Although moving gordos to down special could be a bit awkward since gordos have three different modes, tilted sideways for maximum distance, tilted up for maximum bounce, and tilted down for a little bit of both. Would be weird since sideways tends to be dedede's dededefault with the other two having more situational uses

[@jesusd.b839]

I feel like Gordo should stay as a side special. He is a trap-based character and the up angled Gordo does a great job at it. Up angled down b seems really hard to pull off

[@mattt3481]

I would want to see dedede's current underwhelming down air with the drill hammer landing attack from triple deluxe. A powerful attack and landing tool, giving him a bit better way to escape juggles

[@ballisticboo7808]

Funny enough that was his down air in brawl, they got rid of it for some reason

[@kirbyofthestarsfan]

@@ballisticboo7808 common Smash 4 L

[@aidetund6263]

An idea I always had for Kirby was a tether grab with yarn. It would be a great representation of Epic Yarn