The Best of EVERY Smash Move! (All DLC Edition)

[@MrMockRock]

THIS VIDEO HAS AN UPDATED RETROSPECTIVE! If you liked it and want to see how the choices fared over the years, you can find a post-mortem over on my second channel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWXaZ5tuocimhNU -Second channel: kzbin.info -Twitter: twitter.com/MrMockRock -Twitch: www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch -Patreon: www.patreon.com/mockrock -Teespring: teespring.com/stores/mockrock -TimeBolt affiliate link (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/

[@FinalSmashGamer2]

Play Xenoblade.

[@ConnortheGonnor]

What about the most mediocre move of each character?

[@Mcool77]

0o0

[@AuraSilverHero]

@@ConnortheGonnor I was thinking of the best and worst move of each character.

[@Tvhurdghit4fhi6rr]

Ummmmmm....... Pivot Grab?

[@DecafPotato]

You forgot forward tilt with an item, the meter rebalance of final smashes, assist trophy attacks, item throws, attacks with the Kiddy Kong spirit equipped, and you didn’t make my favorite character win every category. This is unacceptable.

[@woofmasterarf]

Also don't forget Kirby Copy Abilities which cause a 1.2x damage increase!

[@meta04]

@@woofmasterarf And varying launch rates, with G&W's up-B winning even harder on anything over about 1.5...

[@shiffpup2529]

Meter rebalanced final smash is still Zelda

[@arjaycook7612]

Best F-Tilt with an item goes to Sandbag from SSF2. In a corner, it does ridiculous damage because it loops into itself, with any battering item.

[@endshine2264]

And the spot dodge attacks Terry has

[@Kirbman]

Honestly, Steve's neutral special could easily be given to any character if you simply remove the crafting. That's what Kirby's version of the move does.

[@TheTrueBrawler]

It's an amazing move to be honest.

[@donovanmahan2901]

Air smash attacks. Busted.

[@prodfrzl]

exactly, almost any character would use NIL

[@morphstarchangeling8024]

Steve's neutral special and Shulks are both tools every character in the game would benefit from having. The ability to make platforms to extend your combos, using jump to enhance bad air speed, speed for ground speed at the cost of falling faster, blocks to recover better. These two move are just infinitely good on any character in the game.

[@iantaakalla8180]

Steve’s and Shulk’s signature abilities on every character would make a brand new, even more dynamic fighting game (albeit one now more reliant on timing).

[@HarveyVolodarskii]

Simon and Richter: “to compensate for our long range, our moves require good spacing to have kill power” Byleth and Sephiroth: “lol”

[@MishKoz]

DLC privilege 😔

[@maximeminassian6002]

Technically the moves that use Aredbahr do need spacing to be good, if not too good

[@captainmega6310]

Yeah but they're zoners

[@andymcclurg9916]

To be f-air Sephiroth needs careful spacing too

[@greedo194]

@@andymcclurg9916 haha ftilt at the ledge go brr I do agree tho

[@mettatonex7221]

I think just those first three move category choices are perfectly emblematic of just how insane Smash Bros' roster is at this point. For the first move slot, we have the adorable puppy secretary from that cute little game about maintaining a town of talking animals. For the next move slot, we have the edgy seven-foot-sword-weilding villain that has semi-canonically assaulted both Mario and Mickey Mouse. For the move slot after that, we have Minecraft Steve.

[@mwzngd1679]

Mickey mouse???????? How did Sepiroth assault Mickey mouse??

[@mettatonex7221]

@@mwzngd1679 Kingdom Hearts is nuts from what I've heard.

[@KeDe1606]

@@mettatonex7221yes, but he never attacked Mickey in either game. Only Cloud, Tifa and Sora

[@bracken8782]

@@KeDe1606he did attack donald and goofy though

[@KeDe1606]

@@bracken8782 oh yeah… completely forgot about that. Though that scene was mainly an excuse to not have them participate in the fight

[@AdmiralBobbery123]

I gotta say, I really appreciate the way you were able to perfectly find a clip at 17:50 to demonstrate both of Palu’s broken moves. Your ability to find good demonstrations is appreciated

[@MrMockRock]

Hey thanks! That takes a lot longer than you'd expect sometimes and I specifically remember this clip being a nightmare haha, appreciate it

[@TheAntiburglar]

I literally have never actually attempted to learn any of the advanced techniques and corresponding meta skills for this game, despite having played it since its original iteration, but I absolutely LOVE your breakdowns and explanations. It actually encourages me to learn more about the mechanics behind my favorite fighting game of all time :D

[@savelil1th269]

If it’s your favorite fighting game you totally should. Under the hood there is so much that is so interesting to learn and even more interesting to master, tons of depth to every character even if some are for sure easier than others

[@jonieljoestarzawarudo8172]

That's the beauty of Smash Bros.. It's one of the most approachable fighting games for newcomers, while still being very rewarding for competitive play.

[@amateraceon5202]

_gets to down air_ “Say the line, MockRock!” “It does TWENTY. PERCENT.” “YAAAAY!”

[@ImCookieSparx]

goated comment.

[@jellycore1316]

YESSS XD Truly so

[@alexpotts6520]

For real though. A frame-three OOS on a zoner is already stupid, even if it did a normal amount of damage.

[@El_Mince]

@@alexpotts6520 Frame 6 including jump squat actually

[@thomasminnen8831]

I've rewatched both Best and Worst moves lists an uncountable amount of times, so to say I was excited for this is an understatement. Really happy that it's also a very long video. Haven't watched the video completely but I just know the video is gonna be great.

[@thescarfguy]

Everything you just said is true for me too. +1

[@lostmosscostFAUST6671]

Same

[@MissingHunter]

It’s like a ritual for me to watch the old best and worst list videos once per month

[@lachepro6860]

Same

[@landlighterfirestar5550]

MockRock has consistently rewatchable videos and I cannot figure out why. It’s awesome!

[@chris-fr9ws]

this video was phenomenal: not only was it absurdly well-researched, but it covered almost every base in honorable mentions, gave clear explanations for everything, and had the hilarious ending bits to top it all off. great work!

[@isaiaholaru5013]

You are correct, not many youtubers put this much effort into their videos

[@ReitheOffbeatOtaku]

I love how exasperated the delivery of _"It does *20 Percent.*"_ is during the down air category. It's made me crack up both times I've watched this video.

[@isaiaholaru5013]

Same, it's like he's forcing himself to stay calm

[@Xavii]

this man spent 2 minutes clearing up a future arguement about the *3rd honorable mention of down air* what a legend

[@aa-tx7th]

yeah i personally hate when tubers do that sh!t its just future butthurt over criticism that doesnt even yet exist and all it does is dillute the vid and pad it out to go on for WAAAY too long. its extremely annoying.

[@TheKitKatThe]

@@aa-tx7th it was 2 minutes

[@eumorpha876]

@@aa-tx7th imo, that can be annoying, but a lot of good KZbinrs (MockRock included) use "clearing up potential arguments" as an opportunity to educate people on a topic further, while also using it to increase watch time and addressing some inevitable common arguments without requiring people to scroll down the comments

[@theillusionist1494]

@@aa-tx7th I gotta be honest, here. If you’re not interested in comprehensive analysis or acute awareness of potential flaws in one’s own opinion, why are you watching a comprehensive analytical video showcasing someone’s opinion?

[@woofmasterarf]

This was a fun watch, nice to see it stand out quite a bit from the original list. Also I love how much of an extra mile you went with making sure you didn't have comments mentioning obscure move types.

[@Netheraptr]

It’d be interesting if you did a “best move of every character tier list” where you listed each character’s best move for them specifically

[@ClintonKE]

Top 5 best moves of every character, with worse 5. That chances are get some views. Get some "most noticeable quirk about the character as well for some real fun."

[@Paulunatr]

Neutral air: the video

[@cryguy0000]

Pretty sure he already did something like that before

[@Netheraptr]

@@cryguy0000 Back in year one of Smash a few you tubers did things like that. But I don’t think MockRock did anything exactly like that. Besides, the meta of the game has changed drastically since the first year

[@squidbacon7397]

maybe "best move FOR every character"

[@power0029]

I was surprised to not see Ivysaur’s up air not listed as an honorable mention. Sure, it’s frame 12, but it has a huge disjointed hitbox, does 15%, is -6 on shield, and has intangibility on the bulb. With platforms, you can easily rack up 45-50% with just up air. It also kills generously early.

[@ryanfuentes3785]

as some who plays pokemon trainer yes i don't know why its on

[@nightey975]

I’m sure he puts it a number 6, before Robin.

[@Endershock1678]

@Roger Loe Zard is faster, has better ledge trapping, generally more options in edge guarding, is significantly heavier, and has far better OOS options. Tweek once said on podcast that Zard is the best of the three in a vacuum.

[@namkwal]

yeah why was ivy not mentioned at all

[@shadownite3378]

Mr game and watch's up air as well wasn't mentioned strangely? I mean hell that one is arguably the best up air in the game

[@wowo-wo6st]

To be honest, having a bunch of random attacks and then being able to pick the last one actually sounds like it could be pretty fun as a mod or something.

[@QuinnTheGM]

Glad to see reference to the best crit quote in Fire Emblem history, "Pick a god and pray"! Great video as always!

[@halcyon_echo42]

Frederick is a legend & that line will always be epic yes!

[@phoebe5114]

Best ledge hang goes to Ridley. He's got the lowest hurtbox when hanging on ledge and also a lot of moves to get out of said hang safely. He even avoids Dark Samus full charge shot by just vibing there.

[@captainmega6310]

That's funny

[@everyonesaidmynamewasstupi3713]

i thought ganon had the lowest ledge hang?

[@nuclearcoconut3664]

@@everyonesaidmynamewasstupi3713 it was ganon in smash 4, but now it's sonic (his hands aren't hurtboxes anymore) ridley arguably has better planking options though

[@everyonesaidmynamewasstupi3713]

@@nuclearcoconut3664 ah i see. but if we’re talking about planking options we gotta talk about wii fit and her unreactable positive-on-shield kill confirm projectile from ledge

[@loganw7101]

but in a vacumn he wouldnt have those moves.

[@meadnex331]

the grande finale flurry of fake out endings was glorious, adorable, and overall fantastically endering and well done. thank you for providing me with so many smiles both now and throughout the years

[@LevelsOTT]

someone's got a crush goddamn

[@meadnex331]

@@LevelsOTTnah im just a fool who enjoys being overly dramatic

[@trickytristan1]

28:15 psyche up also makes his up-throw a kill throw, so imagine having the potential to give your character a kill throw/make one of their kill throws kill earlier

[@theillusionist1494]

Imagine Oomph/Psyche Up Ness back throw

[@Kyara7]

@@theillusionist1494 Kills earlier than about 3/4ths of the cast

[@SelphoZed]

smash monado art

[@theillusionist1494]

@@SelphoZed I think Smash Art/Oomph/Psyche Up Ness back throw just deletes your main from the roster

[@anwnerd1762]

@@theillusionist1494 and as a ness main I'd be perfectly okay with that

[@Weebfox]

"For ftilt, Mythra is an honorable mention" "Mythra's uptilt deserves an honorable mention" "Mythra's dtilt" Yeah that seems to check out, I already like where this video is going

[@RadiantBlaze]

As an Aegis co-main, i apologise to every other person that plays smash, aegis busted

[@rouge939]

@@RadiantBlaze at least you can admit it. My brother plays them and keeps saying their recovery “balances” them

[@RadiantBlaze]

@@rouge939 That's the same logic used for Cloud in ssb4 lmao You don't need a good recovery if you have instant escape from disadvantage

[@maxwellmegagamer8535]

don’t you love when the dash attack is also an anti air

[@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS]

@@RadiantBlazebut she doesn’t lol, aegis is absolutely gatekept by her recovery if her recovery was good she’d be the best character in the game, not top 5 trollface

[@tjackknife6590]

I’d like to give my own takes on the refined “gimmick” rule. If a move relies on the use of another move to even be usable, I don’t think it should be on here. For example, Olimar can’t use any of his Pikmin moves without plucking Pikmin which REQUIRES the use of Neutral Special, but Hero’s Command Select is still fair game since none of Hero’s moves are exclusively tied to gaining mana. He just does it by hitting his opponents. You could slap that onto Mario and it’d still work.

[@meta04]

Yeah, especially looking at how Kirby's copy abilities interact with these: Olimar's Pikmin pluck becomes a combined pluck+throw, while Hero's neutral-B just has the normal mana meter without having access to the other mana moves.

[@tjackknife6590]

@@meta04 I don’t even think Kirby is limited to mana, which is strange. Side note, imagine if he got Command Select

[@tjackknife6590]

@Roger Loe For one thing, yeah, why can’t Kirby use more character gimmicks? Two, I’m saying if Hero’s Neutral B was Command Select and Kirby got it XD

[@tjackknife6590]

@Roger Loe Mario is simple. Kirby is built around the concept of memorizing each and every matchup. Like Twice or Toga in My Hero One's Justice 2.

[@poggestfrog]

@@tjackknife6590 Nah, Kirby is built around being the beginner friendly character

[@Meichrob7]

I imagine there’d be some similarities but I’d be interested to see your take on a “best possible character in smash” where you took one character as a base, so their physics and any special abilities they have that are somewhat easily applicable to other characters moves (so aura or one winged mode but probably not limit), and then consider what the best combination of moves would be for that character. A lot of the time you had to preface a certain move by explaining that another seemingly more powerful one was reliant on the character’s synergy with another move or their physics, which made me really want to see a video where you did factor those in.

[@botanicalabe]

It would be cool if the next smash game has a character builder where you can take any characters move and see how they work as a kit

[@lordofchaosiori]

I don’t want to imagine the monstrosity of cheese that would come from this lol. But a fun exercise for sure.

[@dIancaster]

That's just Smash 4. They did something like this.

[@botanicalabe]

@@dIancaster not custom moves but a character creator that you can fully customize what moves the character has, not just specials

[@dIancaster]

@@botanicalabe Sounds busted and unpredictable.

[@zeroattentiongaming820]

@@dIancaster Indeed, so such a thing could easily exist while being banned in any competitive sense, with a setting for all existing modes to disallow custom characters for people who just want to play regular Smash. The Miis are a lot of fun to experiment with building a moveset, expanding that to a full custom fighter could add countless hours of play time for someone like myself who would experiment with it all day, while being easily restricted in such a way that people who don't want to deal with the entire thing can ignore it completely.

[@not_really_greg]

I feel like incineroar’s down special, revenge, should have been an honorable mention. The power boost it provides to every move would be incredibly valuable on any characters kit.

[@pandalenz6534]

Yeah

[@goahdejen6176]

imagine pyra down air w revenge or luigi up b w revenge

[@kimotokirby1601]

Tbh is better in incineroars kit than in everyone else exept for maybe bowser, the thing is that he beneficiate a lot more for having such a fast defensive option and his moves are all pretty strong overall. It has special sinergy with moves like alolan whip cuz it makes strong moves moves be even stronger, but it wouldn't be that good in a moveset full of weaker, combo tool moves or with faster movement. Still really good tho.

[@LynxTheUnrelated]

Unfortunate that this one's a sequel, since it tops the original in every category. Here's a like and a comment for more potential searches, this is certainly a video that deserves them.

[@Luigiofthegods]

*Mythra has the best tilts in the game* Mythra: That's my secret, MockRock... *I'm always tilted*

[@koldking]

If you enjoy smash then Mock Rock's entire catalogue is a must watch.

[@VarsVerum]

I’m surprised you didn’t mention Lucina’s forward air, which in my opinion does everything shulk’s does while being frame 5, one of the fastest fairs in the game. Same goes for Game and Watch’s up air. It’s beyond impossible to punish and while it’s directly vertical and has nonexistent kill power, if you’re looking for juggling you really can’t get much better than that. (Updating this as I watch) Game and Watch’s key is also something important to think about considering how important landing is to reset neutral. Sephiroth’s Shadow Flare deserves a mention for basically forcing a disadvantage state for 3ish seconds while requiring almost no commitment from range. ROB’s up special is also kind of hacks for giving him amazing off stage presence. I can imagine giving someone his up b + Lucina fair and you basically never get back once you’re thrown off.

[@nintentwins1867]

Hey Vars enjoy your content

[@marin9412]

There’s a lot of left out moves that should have made it but they’re gonna get brought up anyway by other people. So I just wanna talk about one of the best fairs and also one of the most underrated moves in the game due to the character it’s attached to: mii gunner’s fair. It’s one of the safest moves in the game at -1 point blank, meaning it’s either neutral or + if done anywhere but point blank, giving a free mixup to literally any character who can land this move, and maybe even a guaranteed grab setup on some characters since gunner has the worst dash speed in the game. It’s also an amazing mobility option, being like corrin’s bair but faster and more spammable improving any character’s recovery, edge guard and mobility mixups. It’s also a really great zoning option being a spammable, relatively fast and spammable projectile with not the best range for a projectile but the second best horizontal range for a fair (behind min min) that can be instantly converted into a mix up because of the + frames.

[@MetaKnightX6]

Lucina’s forward is frame 6, not 5. 🤓

[@morgone2645]

I think Chroms fair would be a better pick. As it has a much better combo game than Lucina’s and is slightly safer whilst coving the same amount of space but it is a frame 10 option instead of 6. But I would say combo potential is a much better trade of then edgeguarding as it is not guarantied and extremely hard in some matchups.

[@MetaKnightX6]

@@morgone2645, to be fair, I don’t personally think either forward aerials are capable of being the best in Super Smash Bros.™️ Ultimate.

[@BallisticSoul6]

Glad to see you finally returning to this idea! Ever since Sora dropped, I’ve been eagerly awaiting this

[@Slug_ssbm]

23:05 another use of Monado art I recently learned was using smash when you’re at low percents to make it harder to combo you.

[@ethansura]

That'd be insanely useful for big bodied guys like Bowser, ROB, and other heavies

[@reno2706]

The nostalgia this idea brings back from early ultimate. This is a masterpiece

[@anacobra558]

nothing on KZbin makes me quite as excited as seeing that you've uploaded on a new vid I just ALWAYS loved your stuff since smash 4 and I'm so happy that mockrock talk exists just because it's more content great as always

[@JEWong47]

The last 3 minutes killed me lmao Also, I'm legitimately shocked there wasn't an honorable mention for Young Link's nair despite just being Link's nair but frame 4 while retaining everything that makes Link's nair good minus a bit of range

[@chacha4343]

If you look at the frame data, Mii Brawler Nair is incontestably better than Yink's. Faster and longer lasting, with the same damage and safety on shield.

[@Mufflin]

@@chacha4343 Yink nair has combo potential debatabley as good or better then brawlers.

[@chacha4343]

@@Mufflin How so? It does literally the exact same thing.

[@UltimateStarky]

I'm glad Isabelle got one spot on this list, and to see Isabelle play in competitive matches.

[@Jackaljkljkl]

As a Bowser Jr main, that Jab was our one hope of actually winning a category. Oh well...

[@veganmeatball6780]

Thank you for actually including every move. For one it was funny, but also useful because im trying to create the best possible smash character and knowing what Zair, grab, or pummel is the best was genuinely nice.

[@zernek9199]

This is a video I’ve wanted for so long. Thank you for making this. Just a couple small things I wanted to add to Yoshi’s flutter kick, since I am a Yoshi player It’s better on Yoshi’s kit bc of his air physics, but I think it still deserves a slot because it actually can catch airdodges while still killing off the top.

[@Anon893]

I was waiting for him to bring up Final Smashes the whole time and was so excited when he ended the video with them. Another well done and well researched video. Bravo MockRock Bravo!

[@Endershock1678]

Peach/Daisy. It heals you and if used properly is useful both at low percents (as they can art up for their training room combo) and at high percent.

[@RealKraite]

Fun video! I would love to see move of these kinds of videos in the future, I find them to be super interesting when you go through a shared topic of every character!

[@tkienjoyer]

I'm surprised Ivysaur's up-air wasn't at least mentioned, that thing is a menace, massive hitbox, kill power, ladder combos, it's just another war crime to add to Ivysaur's menace of an aerial toolkit Edit: No rest mention, waft with no chargeup, frame 1, a bit of compensation because of the "end lag" lol but if this video is trying to predict the future we would assume you would always land the move to take a stock in the meta.

[@ericab3919]

I wouldve given "best non-moveset move" to min min's other arm, considering it didnt count as a tilt. Any other character being able to quickly and safely cover and follow up on an area in front of them with a kill move seems kinda broken. Think halfcharged charge shot or zss Zair into instant edgeguard position. Pikachu back air drag down to f tilt at like 40, into megawatt.

[@ellie8272]

One of Min Min's arms is ftilt/fsmash/fair, the other is side b. Both are traditional moveset moves.

[@KevSB07]

@@ellie8272 right but neither made the list since they're only useful together. the suggestion here is that the second arm is a pretty useful side-b if it would be able to be used simultaneously as any sidewards tilt or aerial, like how Min min can use it

[@aronspiker72]

@@KevSB07 while that's probably true I think he meant that her options for being say best Fair would be either Dragon fair, Ram Ram fair, or Megawatt fair, but you would not have smash inputs. But yes Min Min does mainly work as well as she does because the B button is a second A button for the most part that she can use simultaneously with the main A button and the she has the ability to switch her arms with down special.

[@alainlaroche573]

Idk about palu dash attack being the best, it’s also really punishable on block (especially since the end lag nerf). Maybe it’s just me but I find spammable dash attack that cross up like greninja and snake more annoying to deal with.

[@anthony432]

I agree; it’s still a solid move but I don’t think it’s the best. Like you said, even though some DAs like Snake and Greninja’s don’t have invincibility they make up for that with how spammable they are

[@Alibaba-id1cs]

It's more annoying but the general thing with dash attacks is supposed to be a fast burst move that can punish landings. Sure, it's unsafe and not spammable, but it's strong and invincible. Still not the best imo

[@YGK-tu8cy]

It's been an honor to watch your videos throughout the development of Smash Ultimate. I've learned a lot from them. Thank you for being a part of the community.

[@anthonygillette]

I know since the roster has been set, your main channel hasn’t had many updates. But I think I’d love your insight on smash tourney results! Have you thought about covering some of the battles/major upsets and going over why the battles ended how they did? Again, I love your insight on how smash works, and I think this could be a great way to keep this channel active :)

[@pablo4707]

I'm surprised Rob's Gyro didn't make it as an honorable mention: You can charge it, use it as a really good edgeguarding tool (as a down b or as an item), it makes campy characters approach because it can block any projectile, so it can also be used as a stage control tool, and above all the item gives any character crazy combo potential, like 0-deaths for a vast majority of the cast, no matter how trash their other moves are, so I think it would at least deserve an honorable mention, even if Gyro the item technically isn't the exact same thing as his down b, but to me you can still count that one

[@jojo6783f]

Links bomb is just a better version of robs down b in every way for this video i would say. Thats why it isnt here im guessing

[@Endershock1678]

@@jojo6783f Nah, Gyro is way better as a combo tool and holds neutral by existing.

[@auroraborealis4468]

Can't believe we've come such a long way. What a game!

[@bowsertnt7904]

Really good vid, though a bit sad that you didn’t mentioned Incin’s up air. It’s really fast, not laggy, big joggling tool that transfers into a kill move and it’s a really good combo starter on landing where you can steal stocks really early. It’s also -4 on shield which is as safe as ZSS’s nair since the nerfs. And Incin’s leg is intangible during the move. Faster characters would abuse this move even more than Incin already does. Other than that, solid vid and great content to watch through

[@kennystimpson2775]

He could get the best down special as well tbh

[@3rdDayfan777]

MockRock, this was a joy to watch. The evolution of Ultimate's moves, meta, and community has been so engaging that even after I stopped play Ultimate over 1.5 years ago, it's still so entertaining to spectate and learn more about it. Thank you for all the hard work you put into these videos, it's always a treat in my sub feed when I get to see you post!

[@structioner4588]

Kazuya has the best back tilt, up-forward tilt, up-back tilt, down-back tilt, down-forward tilt, crouching attack, back crouching attack, forward crouching attack, uncrouching attack, wind god fist, electric wind god fist, gates of hell, spinning demon to left hook, and dragon uppercut.

[@wesselord9791]

I don't normally comment on videos but I just have to say this is one of the most meticulous, best put together videos I have seen in quite some time. Huge props to MockRock for the amount of time, effort, and research it takes to put together an opinion video that genuinely shows a ton of care and consideration!

[@StarmisYTP]

The extra categories was hilarious. Never expected to seem them in this.

[@TehJoeBro]

Excited for this one. Def one of the best Smash analysis channels, always look forward to your uploads. Perfect balance of casual player and skilled player appeal. Keep it up 👍

[@theillusionist1494]

Interesting choosing Charizard over Mewtwo for up throw; my understanding was that, since Mewtwo’s is perfectly vertical, it’s harder to survive with DI in practice. Though I guess taking your opponent to the top platform kind of makes up for that. It’s also kind of funny how many categories in the original video were so UNQUESTIONABLY usurped by DLC editions. Mythra getting at least an honorable mention for every tilt makes me laugh far more than it should. One move I DEFINITELY expected to see, either here or on the second video, was Revenge. Getting a huge buff to your next attack as a disadvantage escape option or a prediction on an opponent’s attack is something I can’t imagine a ton of characters saying no to unless the alternative was… well, basically the choices you went with. I guess that just shows how stiff the competition is.

[@megamimikyu0720]

i would imagine revenge would have placed on this list if getting grabbed didn't remove the buff. it's especially bad on incineroar's poor mobility, but no matter what physics you have, if your opponent lands a grab before you get to use it, then you essentially predicted an enemy attack and got rewarded with a tiny burst of fire that does next to nothing in terms of both damage and knockback, leads to no combo setup due to the endlag, and you still take damage from it.

[@theillusionist1494]

@@megamimikyu0720 I just firmly disagree with that. Even with Incineroar’s terrible mobility, Revenge is an impactful presence in EVERY competitive Incineroar set I’ve ever seen. Plus, as mentioned in the video, standard grabs are actually not all that great in Ultimate, and tether/command grabs are good but sparse. If even a character as slow as Incineroar can find use for Revenge, imagine a character with mobility even just like Mario in that regard. It’s not bad because it has counterplay, it’s good because it forces your opponent to start fishing for that counterplay, making their actions easier to predict.

[@blaakmage]

I love these vids an incredible amount. Putting so much emphasis on the raw data and mechanics of the game like a philosophical debate. The work and passion you must put into them is crazy. I love it

[@matthewjones6786]

Super fun video, I appreciate all the effort in editing! It's great that every single time you're explaining something, that very thing is happening on screen.

[@petrarcheleven8816]

Yeah, I was kinda expecting that very final pick just because of how much Alpharad played with that move.

[@CraterCat1]

I genuinely like the idea of mix matching a bunch of moves to see how they work together

[@mpregsonic5874]

Really think bowser’s up smash should be considered. Invincible, ground hit box and ungodly power

[@BugBoss1205]

Some honorable mentions I want to toss out are Ridley’s Nair for incredible range and speed, King K. Rool’s up throw which deals a whopping 20% of damage while acting as a reliable kill throw, and mii swordfighter’s up air, for having a ridiculous hitbox duration, pretty decent range, and a surprising amount of damage. (16% clean, 10% late.)

[@astroguy4957]

This is awesome seeing how things have changed over time! Also this would be awesome if someone could make a mod for this to be able to see lots of weird combos

[@Staticsheep28]

Dang, you really did look through every detail of every character. I really hope some top player responds to this and has mostly positive things to say.

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

I’ve been waiting for this one; super excited to see it, especially with the new updated rules Edit: that fire emblem reference on corrin’s fsmash, man, I loved that

[@oscarcat7523]

I’ve been curious that both Min-Min and Mario have both been neglected in the forward smash category. Mario has an absurd lean back during the start up and can two frame, not to mention it had very good kill power. And min min f-smash plays neutral for you Edit: I know he addressed why however even having one arm, and only being able to use the dragon arm, it’s still busted beyond belief. It covers half the goddamn stage and is the second least committal edge guarding tool

[@aronspiker72]

Min Min is really subjective w/ how her moves work in a vacuum and the way MockRock described was the best she could provide would be something like Ram Ram or maybe Dragon F-Smash but you probably couldn't use it in the air, fitting arms attacks into these slots basically forces you to assume that you don't have much movement during these attacks as the aerials w/o smash inputs would be like Belmonts and you could only do 1 tilt at a time (plus her tilts are definitely the worst of her arm attacks in general)

[@PuppetMasterIX]

MockRock summed up Min-Min's absence within the video: Her attacks rely on her character-exclusive gimmick of both arms working alongside each other. If you isolate one arm, their utility is severely reduced.

[@theillusionist1494]

Min-Min f-smash really only plays neutral for you because of the potential mix-up of the second arm; part of the reason she’s so strong as a zoner is because she has that property to cover the first arm’s blind spot. Without that coverage, it’s still great, don’t get me wrong, but not necessarily a candidate for the best. Mario’s I won’t disagree with, though, that move is mad underrated.

[@dc49154]

Also isn't doc's fsmash just better Mario f-smash? It's stronger and I know it has an electric effect so theoretically better to DI but still think it's better Probably should know this since I main him lmao

[@aronspiker72]

@@dc49154 does Doc also do the hurtbox shifting and 2 framing, though I think the shorter range does make the leaning back a bit less effective as you have to be closer to your opponent to dodge and get reward out of it

[@epicguardian44]

I was surprised that Banjo’s side special wasn’t mentioned. Or King Dedede’s up special which goes incredibly high, has armor, and can spike on the way down. But I understand Dedede’s not being mentioned

[@SSM24_]

He did mention Banjo's side B in the companion video on MockRockTalk, since he actually did include that move on his original list.

[@DaxWyvrn]

I cannot fathom the amount of time that was consumed in order to research and compare all of the frame data values and hitbox/hurtbox properties in this video alone. You went above and beyond every expectation I had when clicking this video. You deserve every bit of praise you receive and more. Also, Corrin main here, reporting to cash in on my character getting W's anywhere they can take 'em. (top 20 character at least imo)

[@AaronMiller1010]

I love this series! You always did this type of video super well compared to a lot of other KZbinra

[@johanngalland6188]

Very interesting video, surprisingly complete and detailed, and you even included final smashes lmao ! Anyways thank you for this

[@jtwk3400]

There is so much I disagree with in this list but it just shows how balanced and fun ultimate is. No move or character is generally considered the best and it leads to an exciting experience. Great video man!

[@megatennepster3833]

Which move do you disagree the most with, and what would you replace it with? Me, I would say wolf's down smash, and would instead go with Lucas.

[@jtwk3400]

@@megatennepster3833 I do think Lucas has a better down smash than wolf but I think game and watch has a better one than both of em. I also think game and watch easily has the best up air in the game and he didn't even mention it

[@megatennepster3833]

@@jtwk3400 I would also argue Incineroar's alolan whip for side special, but incineroar feels like cheating because his whole gimmick is that he has all the best moves in the game, but thy are stuck on a bad base

[@jtwk3400]

@@megatennepster3833 game and watch has the best air, pika easily has the best back air, I still think Rob has a better down tilt than mythra and others I am forgetting off the top of my head

[@alexandernelson945]

Jab- Isabelle Forward Tilt- Sephiroth Up Tilt- Steve Down Tilt- Mythra Dash Attack- Palutena Forward Smash- Little Mac Down Smash- Wolf Up Smash- Min Min Neutral Air- Sora Forward Air- Bowser Back Air- Donkey Kong Up Air- Chrom Down Air- Pyra Neutral Special- Shulk Side Special- Sonic Down Special- ZS Samus Up Special- Mr. Game & Watch Unique Input- Kazuya (EWGF) Down Throw- Dr. Mario Up Throw- Charizard Forward Throw- Donkey Kong Back Throw- Ness

[@DuoFaceGaming]

Very well done video, it was interesting thinking about what some characters could do if they could build like Steve... scary

[@zackglenn2847]

As a Lucina main, I am still salty about her spike being frame perfect. Plenty of the game's spikes last for 2-3 frames, I don't think it would be that broken for Marth and Lucina to get that too.

[@captainmega6310]

You'll be ok

[@Geneolgia]

Look at how Marth down air was in Melee/Brawl, they completely gutted that move

[@ThatGuyCalledSteeve]

29:30 I kind of disagree with octoslash being difficult to challenge due to it's pretty long charge time, anyone with at least a decent offstage presence can go out and hit him with an aerial during the charge up and completely destroy him off stage

[@landlighterfirestar5550]

Agreed, and on stage it’s basically useless; your opponent has all the time in the world to see what you’re doing and hold shield, and then you’re just doomed

[@samk2407]

Nah because you can blade dash and that will beat out the earlier timing. I play against sephiroth, and against most characters, if you're not coming him, you just have to let him recover

[@Endershock1678]

You need to react fast because we can react to you coming off and just blade dash. Coming from a Seph secondary

[@Endershock1678]

@@landlighterfirestar5550 Watch Nairo's clips. He is able to utilize Octoslash against even top players like Light and VoiD.

[@samk2407]

@@Endershock1678 yeah exactly. You basically have to surprise the sephiroth player by going deeper faster than they expect, if you don't they just blade dash

[@benro6564]

Fantasic video as always. WHY DID I NOT PUT MY OWN MAIN as prediction for forward air tho. I am angy

[@Empy_C.]

who

[@benro6564]

@@Empy_C. bowser

[@willy.b2419]

@@benro6564 Can you stop showing up on my fucking comments

[@PriceMw123]

Your content has recently gotten me back into Smash. I'm on a legendary rabbit hole and I don’t know if older videos benefit the same way, but I'll leave a comment and a like.

[@luckyc4t110]

I'd like to give a shoutout to Minmin's up smash for being able to reflect Sepheroth's counter... that it triggered in the first place.

[@WillowIsntSeenDead]

I love the way he says go read a book

[@landlighterfirestar5550]

Had a thought: perhaps a spiritual sequel to this video could be every Smash character’s best move. What’s Mario’s best move? DK? Link? (And so on…) This also allows you to judge each move in context

[@thunderd7904]

I think Bayonetta should've been mentioned in the "weird moves" category with her up and side specials. If you only have one or the other, sure, it's not that good. If you have both + aerials that actually kill, you're laughing when you kill the opponent even earlier than in Smash 4.

[@SpiffierShindigs]

Bayo is really poorly positioned for this specific way of determining best moves, because her kit is all so designed around itself. Except for Witch Time. It'd be so much better on a character that actually had reasonable kill potential.

[@thunderd7904]

@@SpiffierShindigs Not really. Like I said, the only moves that kind of _need_ each other are Witch Twist and ABK. If you replaced all her normals with moves that could actually kill out of Witch Twist 2, she’d be busted. Maybe a character with bad air speed would be able to utilize them well, but Bayo only has average air speed, so I don’t think it matters too much.

[@gkgeze]

Are we just not going to talk about that crazy transition between the intro and the main video??

[@thunderd7904]

I think Incineroar’s Revenge is honestly better than Waft at this point. Yes, it’s a counter which tend to not be used much, but I think Incineroar is the exception. It’s frame 3, allows any character to kill or rack up damage, and is probably the best anti projectile tool in the game. Imagine something like Samus Revenged Charge Shot. That’d probably instantly break shield or kill at like 30%. Or how terrifying a fast character would be charging at you with their beefed up back air or something.

[@Windowmeiker]

Smh, didn't do the best jump, run, walk, double jump, spot dodge, roll, air dodge, directional air dodge, shield, or getup options from a missed tech

[@MakeVarahHappen]

Will a worst list also come out?

[@Woofrie]

YOOOOOO I'M IN A VIDEO

[@guaveelly225]

Who are you what is your name?

[@NeichoKijimura]

Oh, mighty youtube algorithm, please recommend the hell of this video, I beg you!

[@theillusionist1494]

In review, some moves I’m surprised to see excluded made me curious, so I figured I’d list them for some discussion. -Robin’s Thunder tome - I think on any character who isn’t Robin, this move would be absolutely absurd, possibly even more than Charge Shot. Even WITH the resource consumption. - Bowser’s down smash; it’s bigger, faster, stronger, AND more active than Wolf’s, with armor to boot. The only trade-offs are more endlag and that it takes more time for the second hit to come out, but with proper usage, I think faster startup is more impactful than slower endlag, especially for smash attacks. - Incineroar’s Revenge; I brought this up in another comment, but getting a stackable buff to your next attack as a combo breaker or moderate read is something I can’t imagine many characters saying no to. Even the weakness of getting grabbed wouldn’t impact it that much, considering Incineroar already has it and is theoretically the easiest character to grab in the game, yet Revenge is still a strong presence in any match against him. - Terry’s down tilt; I know special-cancelable moves were excluded from the selection process, but I’m basing this off a choice in the original “WORST of every move” video, where you were as optimistic as possible and said K Rool’s up air would still be the worst. In that case, if we’re as pessimistic as possible and said Terry’s down tilt couldn’t cancel into anything, I’d still at least give it an honorable mention, since it’s fast, two-frames, and barely sends the opponent ANYWHERE. - Min-Min’s forward smash; Even without the secondary arm mixup, dragon forward smash is still insane. - Luigi’s Cyclone; I don’t think I need to explain this one too much.

[@davioliveira7517]

man, i was reading bowser down smash and looked like dk rap "he's bigger, faster and stronger too"

[@theillusionist1494]

@@davioliveira7517 Exactly what I was going for lol

[@Endershock1678]

Thunder Tome is already absurd on Robin. I'm with TK where if Robin didn't have resources, they would be top tier, purely for this move (and Levin Sword but ignore that rn). Second charge is the best projectile in the game. It's just wolf laser with kill power.

[@nightey975]

34:57. Incineroar's back throw is actually stronger than Ness's. So calling Ness back throw the strongest kill throw in the game isn't the most accurate.

[@thescarfguy]

Correct me if I am wrong, but incin has higher base knock back but lower knock back growth. This means that while it kills earlier at ledge, anywhere else on the stage Ness's kills earlier. Please correct me if I am wrong, if you know the game better than I do.

[@captainmega6310]

@@thescarfguy you right. Incineroar is technically stronger, but Ness... _Ness_

[@nightey975]

@@thescarfguy I don’t think I know better than you. You could be correct.

[@guacodile2528]

if you DI incin back throw it actually kills later than ness and even Docs

[@milkyy4168]

Snake's down special lets him recover indefinitely and it's a good kill move... and it essentially blocks off parts of the stage

[@raphaelchan7574]

This video took too much effort, it deserves so many praises

[@Prompt3D]

I love how MockRock gave himself his own OST "MockRock is here" is the title screen theme to the game MockRock

[@DaDMonDCB]

I still say it's fun to imagine what character would be the best fit for all these moves together. My vote for this version remains the same, though, especially with Sonic's Side B included; Metal Sonic would be a great addition to the roster in Smash 6.

[@jw3565]

Peach/Daisy’s down tilt Should also be on here, it’s a huge combo starter, and can keep opponents vulnerable to air attacks.

[@james8616]

Bowsers Side B is even better when taken in side with his aerials. When opponents are on platforms, pressure with Nair and Fair is huge. When the opponent start shielding to prevent getting hit by these, you can mix it up with the frame 6 command grab (or down B but that’s not the move we’re talking about). It makes bowser mixups so good

[@plusah1268]

21:57 not only can it kill really hard, but it can set up for footstools. if you jump off the anvil while its falling you can tell whether the opponent is gonna get knocked left or right, position yourself, footstool, read the tech, up tilt, foot stool, down air. EZ hype. I also sometimes use it as a combo starter which is something I never see steve players do. its really good for starting pick loops and up tilt combos believe it or not.

[@JacobSC_]

The Best of and Worst of moves videos are some of my favorites so to see an updated version is awesome Also celeste music makes this a 10/10

[@PotofGlue]

Kirby answers some of those questions for you. If someone else has a multi-character move, its done without the character ie ice climbers or modified to function as that character might use it ie rosa, olimar. If someone else has one of the shotos’ special moves, you simply can’t cancel into them (unless we’re assuming kirby just has no moves that would be special cancelable which seems unlikely)

[@judetini4679]

Your original video was incredible but with the extra skill you gained over the years this one blew me away

[@KingMatthewXV]

I like the now we’re done segment.

[@reubenbailey7491]

This and the worst of every smash move are some of the best smash content on youtube, no cap.

[@jonbeecee]

I know this isn't even a new thing but GOD I love your theme song, I could listen to that on repeat for a while. Also great video as always!

[@jakeoloughlin8381]

Fantastic video, you're genuinely one of my favorite content creators of all time