Modal vs Tonal Counterpoint

[@ethangarrett4175]

Very informative video. Helped me understand this distinction which has otherwise puzzled me. Great video Jarod!

[@jarodvmusic]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad it was helpful.

[@Dubb1000]

Thank you so much for uploading this video, it's helped me out a lot, and based off your description, I believe Tonal Counterpoint is more suitable for me in regard to start learning about counterpoint theory and application. I'll eventually learn Modal Counterpoint after I'm done with Tonal Counterpoint. Thanks again man! 🙏🏾

[@jarodvmusic]

Glad to help. Good idea. Bach started more Tonal and developed more into Modal Counterpoint later on. So there is nothing wrong with learning either one first. I will say both are very helpful and Tonal Counterpoint really helps a lot with the small details and figuring out how to solve "musical problems." If you develop into Partimento and writing styles based around the "Common Practice Period" then all of the Tonal stuff basically gets thrown out the window and disregarded. However I personally still think knowledge of Tonal Harmony is very useful my only advice is don't focus on it too much. A lot of the Tonal ideas of Subdominant, Submediant and such often do not work outside of a classroom, real music is much more free and speaks to the creator. It is art.

[@Dubb1000]

@@jarodvmusic Thank you for the insightful reply. Partimento was something that confused me as well, as videos I came across didn't really explain or differentiate between counterpoint and partimento. So I just give up on making that my next subject to study in music theory and chose to go with counterpoint instead. I ended up buying two books since watching your video; "Tonal Counterpoint for the 21st Century Musician" by Teresa Davidian and "The Study of Counterpoint" by the legend Alfred Mann which translates material from Fux's original book on counterpoint. I'm currently studying the former aforementioned book. I'm enjoying it so far. I know it'll take a year or so (or even longer), but I'm fully committed. Thank you once again for making this video.

[@jarodvmusic]

@@Dubb1000 Nice! I can see that you are serious about this. Yes Partimento is different than counterpoint, it is a playing style that allows you to improvise. But doing so the method teaches how to improvise with counterpoint with no mistakes. If you are curious about that just know that it is pretty advanced and it would be better to start by learning solmisation, the rule of the octave, then practice loads of figured bass exercises (easy to difficult) then after that you will be ready for Partimento. This is something that will take years. Those books sounds great! If you need any additional pointers my videos start from a modal basis but I am sure to throw in plenty of Tonal thinking in my videos and especially in my Counterpoint Response videos. I have a whole counterpoint playlist with videos explaining the topic and everything is in chronological order. kzbin.info/aero/PL2ghy7M10WRWFOMCERCIeo66Zdr054nlU

[@Dubb1000]

@@jarodvmusic Partimento sounds like an amazing tool to have in one's arsenal, I'm going to attempt to study it along side counterpoint (if my mental bandwidth can handle it that is, LoL!) Thanks for explaining what partimento is by the way. I find it quite ironic that I watched several long videos on partimento and was still clueless on what it actually was, or how to implement it, but yet your two sentence explanation was so easy to understand. I'm going to do a bit of research on solmisation. I absolutely love the rule of the octave. I stumbled across a video made by Music Matters (KZbin channel) and am in love with the minor version of this device. I can play the minor version in every key in root position, but, I've been meaning to learn the other two positions. I'm very familiar with figured bass, although I've not tried playing an exercise with just a melody and the figured bass written below the staff, so I'll be sure to implement that in conjunction with my counterpoint studies. Thank you so much for these great tips. Honestly, I was going to study counterpoint in isolation, like I did with four part harmony, but after your advice, I see it makes sense to implement other devices/techniques that will further strengthen my application of counterpoint in the long run. Although I'm mentally prepared to study these subjects for years to become a better composer, efficiency in learning is also something that's super important to me, and you've given me a plan of action in studying efficiently and I truly appreciate it. I'll be binge watching your playlist shortly, just so I don't get too ahead of myself.

[@jarodvmusic]

​@@Dubb1000 I believe you will be able to study both with no problems as long as you are motivated and interested in the topic, and it seems like this is already true for you. Basso Continuo exercises are great, these have the bass figures. It is a good idea to start with simple then go to more complex. Then Partimento is un-figured bass. There are different variations of The Rule of the Octave and Rules of Partimento depending on what teacher you learn from. Here are some resources to help: partimenti.org/ (People recommend this as a good start)partimenti.org/partimenti/collections/fenaroli/index.html partimenti.org/partimenti/collections/furno/index.html partimenti.org/partimenti/collections/durante/index.html www.researchgate.net/publication/338085776_Thoroughbass_Pedagogy_Near_Johann_Sebastian_Bach_Editions_and_Translations_of_Four_Manuscript_Sources www.derekremes.com/wp-content/uploads/Remes_CPEBachChorales.pdf www.youtube.com/@RichardusCochlearius www.youtube.com/@NikhilHoganShow

[@rjlchristie]

A very useful summary.

[@jarodvmusic]

Glad to hear this. Thanks for the feedback!

[@glencooper6153]

Thank you for this useful summary!

[@jarodvmusic]

Your welcome, I'm glad you like it!

[@balbino4]

Thank you very much, Jarod!

[@jarodvmusic]

I am glad you are liking the videos! A lot more to come and soon we will be learning more about the orchestra too.

[@balbino4]

Good night Jarod! I would really like the texts on the slides and the examples you use in each video so I can have a summary. Would it be possible to send it to me in pdf? Thank you very much.

[@jarodvmusic]

Thanks for all of the feedback! Yes I could do that. I am pretty busy this weekend. I will try to get that done in the next few days. I will let you know when they are uploaded to my Google Drive and I will provide links.

[@jarodvmusic]

I have been very busy this week and have not found time to get everything to PDF yet I will try to do that next week instead.

[@jarodvmusic]

drive.google.com/file/d/14gkAUYq_6AKX0Tn-ioXOsEJaUTFNT0FK/view drive.google.com/file/d/10WgSvzPDFZzKRlAs8FhfWgvOxeh4SsBQ/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1R9Q-eo2EUdipRatDTArip47S1CYhEW-x/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1Ef0t14ru7hh3Bqz0FS9FR4vQ4_ssDYQf/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/19JbbpPzS4rojISoTSX_jplj3XUBD6ZRI/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/10_I1Ov1XUOF-tz7dm4VJdIr0_jc6XqCh/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/12M-OPidpt0Kd7gh8krlBXq6qnmH4BDX2/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1cLBf0bE6F0I_tAnUeg1GM5jd-sVCeJf8/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1I1WwcbTbfCeQoeQBavp4lAlHBXfR0yyt/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1Q6Y5Xh2yeNRclCHVWw_euozl-fQfhp4e/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1IkjOlL9qEbWqSiqr3YI4NerZYO3Pxm-t/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1pnQb260Jc528NM56N5M171Y245q-dCEl/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1Y3eSgvrNwSWXbuEBLSXjzTpCjV6LMpGK/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1K5Fs3TEijt4gaZR9cmJFInZflWGAeCfR/view?usp=sharing

[@jarodvmusic]

This ^ should include all of the texts and slides in my Counterpoint Playlist up to my 3 to 1 Counterpoint video where I then began adding more information in the descriptions. I also included some additional information that I have probably mentioned in my videos. Let me know if there is anything else.

[@johnpcomposer]

Doesn't modality imply the use of particular modal scales?

[@jarodvmusic]

Yes you would write from a mode. For instance, a lot of my counterpoint examples are in D Dorian. Just like in a minor scale, the 7th Degree is often raised in certain modes such as D Dorian. This technically would be the same as the melodic minor scale, but you do see this in Classical music in the context of the Dorian mode. They thought about music differently back then.

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

Merci.

[@jarodvmusic]

You're welcome

[@alexlancaster5455]

You have a lot of decent knowledge, but your editing and speaking skills really need work. Your edits cut you off in awkward places, even mid-sentence. You don’t always speak in complete, or grammatically-correct sentences. The info looks great but the presentation doesn’t communicate it.

[@jarodvmusic]

Thanks for the feedback. I was having some problems with my editing program, leading to those awkward moments. I am working on it.