Modello 1928 Tromboncino Grenade Launcher

In 1928, the Italian army adopted a rifle-mounted grenade launcher. It was a potentially interesting weapon which wound up being fatally handicapped by the use of ineffective grenades. The basic idea was to mount a second rifle receiver to the side of a Model 91TS carbine, but with an integral grenade cup instead of a barrel. The trigger of the carbine was modified with an addition linkage to operate the sears on both receivers. When firing a grenade, the bolt would be removes from the carbine receiver and installed into the grenade launching receiver.
The most unique part of the design was in the grenade cup. Instead of using blank style grenade cartridges, the Tromboncino used standard ball ammunition to launch grenades. When the round was seater in the chamber, the front of the bullet was held firmly in place by a threaded plug in the front of the chamber. Upon firing, the bullet could not move forward, so the neck of the case would burst open, venting the propellent gas around the bullet and through vent holes into the base of the grenade cup, thereby throwing the grenade.
This system was quite clever, as it did not require any special ammunition types but also did not require designing a grenade which was capable of safely catching a fired projectile. However, the tactical use intended was for troops to use grenades in the immediate opening of a close assault, and so the grenades were designed to be concussion type more than fragmentation, to ensure that they could be used in relatively close quarters without injuring the firer. The result was a grenade design which was not effective enough on the enemy to be of much actual use, however, and most of the Modello 1928 carbines were decommissioned in the mid 1930s.
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[@ryanjohn8035]

When Battlefield V adds guns no one has seen or heard of. Time to visit Gun Jesus.

[@mr.fahrenheit6054]

Hahaha...ikr! Finally some love for medic class

[@das_edelweiss8736]

The game may not be as historically accurate but the gear and weapons are very accurate

[@walz1986]

And this way all these videos appear in my time line also I am not really interested in guns. But the videos of those guys are good and informative, also I am to much European to totally agree with all their views.

[@Smokedout33]

Ryan Otter haha right?!??!!

[@nicholasholloway8743]

Ryan Otter IKR!

[@RC000000000]

Tromboncino = little trumpet XD

[@Brannington]

adorable XD

[@suparosc02]

not exactly but mostly; and he also butchered every pronunciation x) but it's okay

[@IlNamelessKinglI]

Tromboncino in italian gun terms is Flash Hider tho

[@marcomenabue7717]

@@IlNamelessKinglI spegnifiamma🤔

[@tankadar]

@@IlNamelessKinglI Spegnifiamma

[@user-ns3vs3bp3e]

3 reasons I'm here: 1) title has an amazing name 2) title has grenade launcher in it 3) it's a forgotten weapons video so I'm gunna be here anyway

[@giuseppepuglisi3980]

Tromboncino sounds quite funny in italian actually :-)

[@logioytek6831]

Giuseppe Puglisi tutti per il tromboncino 😂

[@giuseppepuglisi3980]

Ce li scegliamo proprio fighi i nomi per le armi noi ;-)

[@Palora01]

little trombone?

[@giuseppepuglisi3980]

That's right.

[@TokioExpress]

I'm calling right here guys. This rifle is going to be in the next Battlefield game as a level 10 gun.

[@TheKingOfJordan1]

C.A. Rocha It'd be nice to see a Carcano in BF1, I don't know why they left it out.

[@Tobascodagama]

They had to make room for more experimental prototypes that never saw combat.

[@SeizureSpecialist]

Or it'll be in CoD WW2 as a supply drop (A.K.A. "Pay To Win") exclusive gun, probably as a sniper rifle (I know that it actually isn't, but I doubt Activision will care), because who doesn't want to 360 noscope with a grenade launcher sniper rifle? ...I think I'm a bit sick after writing that.

[@SgtKOnyx]

Mitchell Mainey I'm certainly sick reading it

[@MrFibbles08]

ShadowOfDeath24 I'm betting the next Battlefield will either be a modern combat game (like 3 or 4) or a remake of Battlefield 2142. (2143?) Personally I hope it's '2143' because by jove 2142 was incredible. Pisses all over the future based CoDs.

[@thelaughinghyenas7962]

Ian, have you ever considered getting an endoscope camera for looking inside weird things like that? A USB endoscope camera for a phone is quite cheap. I have seen them as low as $20.

[@LUR1FAX]

You just want him to check if he ate your yoghurt.

[@DeanmC261993]

I'm surprised they never tried fixing the explosives issues as opposed to scrapping the whole idea. Seems like a waste to be honest.

[@gabrieleciciriello6447]

i have to agree with you

[@Clay3613]

Having extra bolts issued to soldiers for the launcher probably would've been feasible. Weight would've been minimal.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

The SR2 bomb was filled with 32gr of TNT, into an iron case, and with an iron spiral around it to ensure fragmentation. The explosive filling was inferior to the later (from 1944) US MKII hand grenades, but superior to the earlier ones, so I wouldn't deem them as "ineffective". The bomb was designed to contain it's effects in a 50m range, and so the shooter was instructed to not shoot at closer distances (see "Istruzione provvisoria sull'uso della bomba S.R.2 con governale"). It was not the bomb, simply they decided to ditch the whole idea. It was replaced by the Brixia mortar, that, being able of direct ant indirect fire, and having a far higher ROF, was deemed to be a better solution.

[@suparosc02]

welcome to italy

[@CrudeConduct666]

@@Clay3613 the injury received from a bolt flying into your skull would be enough to keep you from replacing it. Or uh, ever doing anything again. So no reason to carry more than one.

[@SeraphinaPZ]

A side mounted grenade launcher in 1928? I don't care if it's flawed! God damnit, that's awesome.

[@nickwashburn723]

I love how much you've grown over the years, Ian. I was watching some older videos the other day and you were noticeably awkward and nervous. Don't get me wrong, you were still great, it was just striking to see how far you've come. Keep up the great work its the standard by which everyone else should grade their work.

[@CubeeMusic]

im italian...and this make me happy to watch! thanks man for your work

[@jbrunty1989]

the best damn gun channel on KZbin period.

[@grumpyboomer61]

And now I know. I've seen photos of these weapons, but never read a description of how they worked. An elegant design. Thanks Ian.👍👍

[@patriot-renegade]

When I read "tromboncino" I'm imagining some Italian guy yelling it at the top of his lungs like the soldiers in Assassin's Creed 2 yell "Assassino!"

[@cahilla54]

🤣

[@piersp38]

Thank You ! I found much more history of my own Country in this channel than in plenty of others in Italy or Europe . There are models completly forgotten that I see for the first time , this one included . Congratulations for your idea and accurated job .

[@thefacebiters]

Wow, this video was epic. Never heard of a system like this for projectile grenades.

[@Shadow_Hawk_Streaming]

I'd argue this could have been incredible for naval use, although more for flares and lines than actual explosives

[@burningsporkdeath]

The current French APAV40 rifle grenade is a bullet-trap design used with standard service ammo.

[@rlbadger1698]

You got it in one. The best.

[@junichiroyamashita]

Isn't a modern 7,62x51 barrel version? A bullet trap one without attchments needed?

[@ristoalanko9281]

Probably the Italians tried to adapt the tactics of WW I Arditi stormtroopers. They preferred non-fragment hand grenades, because they were trained to close quarters combat in extreme: daggers and revolvers. This idea didn't work on Russian steppes, though... longer range became extremely important.

[@guitarman49911]

I feel like DICE just watches forgotten weapons when they run out of ideas.

[@happyhaunter_5546]

unnerving indeed yet still a pretty cool idea, especially with the use of standard ball vs. specified blank cartridge. Thanks Ian for another awesome video on another obscure and awesome peice of engineering.

[@rosicroix777]

TY for posting this. I saw a magizine article a decade ago about this grenade laucher & was fascinated, your video explained alot more. I've heard that though each platoon was issued a good number of grenade launchers, that the troops typicaly complained about the grenades lack of power & it being only effective when using WWI tactics. I still think its use of 1 bolt for the whole gun is a great idea. TY again for another great video.

[@borisxiao]

So if I have two bolts, I can shoot a live round and a grenade at the same time?

[@giacomodeluca7043]

And crack the receiver apart

[@offdeadeye88]

Art3mis receivers*

[@4Deadserious]

Technically 2 live rounds and a grenade at the same time

[@dougler500]

That is such a brilliant idea. Why was this not expanded upon or experimented with further in the war? Probably is the best squad level GL design I've seen from that time period. Must have been pricey to manufacture though...

[@jamesberry3230]

it was in the form of the 45/5 modello 35 "Brixia" mortar which was issued 1 per platoon leading to the German PAW 600 and the US 40mm grenade

[@Maximilian_Romus]

Step 1: Watch this gun getting released in BF5 Step 2: KZbin Algorithm Step 3: Get this video recommended :D Step 4: Love it

[@ryanvargas4889]

I can totally picture Ian finding this rifle in the inventory like.. "and your coming with me!".

[@FrankDad]

Ian: makes video on weird and interesting ww1/2 weapon EA: write that down, write that down!

[@AdoringFan]

It can wipe out your enemies then you can use it to play music at their funerals.

[@alexanderdimaria3326]

Love that you are doing Italian weapons!

[@Silver0809]

That is a fascinating and creative idea, but indeed it seems quite unnerving to actually use. And you actually explained what was going on in there! I wonder if those soldiers who were issued this thing were just told to load a grenade and then chamber a live rifle round. Terrifying.

[@mfree80286]

Hrmm. So the grenade is propelled by vented gas only... A quick search online drew brilliant results. Apparently you can get 38mm 'superballs' pretty easily. A case of superballs and a box of 6.5x52mm Carcano could make for a pretty interesting range trip.

[@andreaberetta9656]

Michael Free kinda like the can shooting ar upper

[@thurin84]

i wonder how many guys "acquired" an extra bolt so they wouldnt have to switch back and forth.

[@duncanmcgee13]

They would still have to remove each bolt to prevent both a bullet and a grenade from firing at the same time

[@marcusborderlands6177]

@@duncanmcgee13 or they could just not have a round in the grenade launcher... Ya know, the easy way.

[@duncanmcgee13]

@@marcusborderlands6177 and what happens when you attempt to fire a grenade? How do you prevent a round from being fired?

[@marcusborderlands6177]

don't have a round in the chamber? Literally just push down the cartridges with your finger when you rack the bolt so no round is in the main gun...

[@duncanmcgee13]

@@marcusborderlands6177 sounds like a lot of extra effort to add weight to the side of your gun when you can just slide the one bolt straight in and out the back of both recievers

[@frajecz]

Why not just start manufacturing a new, more lethal type of grenade, when it was deemed ineffective in it's intented purpose, instead of calling it obsolete? It seems like quite a handy system, at least for the time.

[@GeneralAdvance]

Italian efficiency

[@ForgottenWeapons]

I suspect the small bore diameter would have prevented them from getting a grenade of the effectiveness they wanted. The 45mm mortar that replaced these was substantially more effective and longer ranged.

[@petros311]

it could be actually their doctrine, the italian assault handgrenades were also small blast yield, relying more on the blast and shock and less in fragmentation, maybe becouse they wanted to get really close wile assaulting. i am from greece and during greek-italian war 1940-41 the greek troops didnt have much regard on italian assault handgrenades (hellenic army also they had some in stock also, bought from italy before the war), they were ineficient and had to get very close to you to kill you or injured you, most of time they just shock you, i guess this was the concept for this grenade launcher also. A fun fact, greek troops modifying italian hand grenades unscrew from the top (they had large lid) take the powder and detonator out and they used them as a sigarette case! and in many times when in close fight with italians when out of grenades they just throw them on italians as distract as they thought they were real and they ditch for cover!

[@triumphant39]

The size of the projectile and weight of the explosive was alot less than modern 40mm grenade.

[@pigdrt]

Grenade tec had taken a big leap by the the time the 4o mm came out it had a fragmenting wire and a aluminum capsule instead of a cast iron body

[@sadrathe1004]

Loving Forgotten weapons and battlefield at the same time 🔥

[@RamadaArtist]

"You only needed one bolt" But I'll be damned if I don't look at that and think, "but I bet you *could* use two."

[@Tracks777]

Great stuff :)

[@chrismiddleton398]

That's one of the neatest devices I've seen in many dozen channel views.

[@philipcheng1618]

YES! I was hoping you would do a review on this one!

[@docgonzodotcom]

What a wonderful solution, just use the rifle's bolt :) Great video, Ian!

[@nickmontalbano9573]

I just love how KZbin knows when Battlefield V puts out a new gun to find Ian’s video on whatever it is

[@RukaSubCh]

I though the Italian army was alway under funded(during that period of history) , it's a pretty amazing system they came up with.

[@ernestmalley2]

That Brixia launcher...the ammunition tails..with the fins, made excellent egg cups...my grandfather brought back half a dozen from North Africa as a gift for my grandmother.

[@MidnightdoesWoT]

Keep it up Ian! the more the better! if its okay, I would like to see more stocked pistols. I want to be a gunsmith, and im working on a stocked pistol now, and all the reference and precedent I can get is wonderful

[@jonluchtefeld6639]

the evolution of firearms amazes me. From the late 1920s to the early 50s. Some designers had things so right. yet others had it so wrong.

[@silasstryder]

What a clever design for the time, though I'll be honest imagining a soldier under fire carefully moving the bolt in just the right way to get it out of the rifle and into the grenade launcher in any sort of smooth and time efficient manner seems like a tall order

[@LUR1FAX]

Duuuude, this looks super cool!

[@johndoesstuff4602]

It's mad how closely this channel follows battlefield

[@LittleLion93]

Fun fact: "tromboncino" means little trombone in Italian :D P.s "spciali" is pronounced like spechalee ;) Great video!

[@kyleken8383]

Best part is you can hold it like a gangsta when you use the grenade launcher.

[@piatpotatopeon8305]

The word "Tromboncino" excites me in ways that I don't fully understand or am comfortable with. I've watched this video so many times. This has to be my favorite interwar grenade launcher. That Hungarian grenade-launching AK is really cool too. I'm watching that next.

[@astridvallati4762]

Tromboncino is a Small Trombone ,( Tuba in Italian, not trombone in English) The word derives from Tromba, which is ancient and means a larger size of Trumpet without Valves ( similar to Roman Buccina.). The Japanese also converted T89 so called Knee Mortars to simple Grenade Launchers, by simply removing the rear range setting Spigot and firing pin, with a T38 Receiver and cutoff Barrel Chamber, and use a Propulsion Blank, and normal DocAV

[@shermonruler]

That is an interesting way to use standard ammo to use a grenade laucnher.

[@davidsachs4883]

One would think the Italians might have designed several grenade types for this A fragmentation grenade for longer distances A flash bang for the final assault An incendiary for enemies in a wooden building And maybe tear gas, and parachute flares

[@impala403]

Damn... This thing going to be the bomb in battlefield 5 Literally

[@xl7667]

The grenade can’t even one shot. It does 90 damage maximum. Does a lot of damage to vehicles though. Also the better grenades specialization is bugged. Other that that the gun is VERY good. Think a de lisle but with slightly slower fire rate and extreme 1-2 shot kill range.

[@danielwang2956]

The go-to channel for EA employees to add strange guns in their game

[@troy9477]

It always has surprised me that nations stuck with rifle grenades for so long (and still use them) rather than developing a dedicated launcher a la the M79 (and later the M203). They work well, are supposed to be quite accurate, and do not require fine motor skill manipulation of your rifle. Of course a mortar is better, has longer range and has a bigger bang, but they are not as mobile, take time to set up, etc. Great explanation of how these work.

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

The idea is that this way the guy with the grenade launcher is not dead weight if he cannot lob nades. Also so that you can have a much higher about of grenade launchers without decreasing the effectiveness of the squad.

[@xxxlonewolf49]

Swapping your bolt before assaulting a position sounds like a terrible idea. Cool history!

[@prettydamngeneric]

Start off the morning right with Gun Jesus.

[@Sherwoodnt]

Why would you expose the national breakfast ritual?

[@bilibiliism]

Having breakfast, watching forgotten weapons, and Im Canadian.

[@aaronb3196]

Instead of underbarrel, they were doing beside barrel. Still, seems very innovative for the time period. Seems like it would be less in the way in prone or with bipod than underbarrel so that's pretty cool.

[@rifles_up2263]

I love the lil short carbine

[@pizzerinoitaliano3049]

Anyone here because BFV Tides of War?

[@ThePovarPower]

Yes! :D

[@jordanturpyn24]

I watched so many vids today on this it popped up. Lol love this gun this great addition to medic ckas

[@louisbeerreviews8964]

Bartosz Szulc yes

[@zombiecowboy4946]

Yep, right here. I was interested in how it worked.

[@bigsmoke8816]

Yeah and do yourself a favour and subscribe to him

[@RoscoesRiffs]

Brilliant!

[@gungho1345]

definitely an interesting concept.

[@Fedaykin24]

Massively ahead of its time really! Conceptually not unlike a modern underslung grenade launcher.

[@michaelw.6957]

There is one of these grenade-launchers at the Berman Museum in Anniston, Alabama (along with an experimental Italian SMG if I recall). Mr. Berman was a member of the OSS during WW2, so he probably got his first-hand lol.

[@ryanvargas4889]

So ahead of its time.

[@malone005]

one more great video Ian, simple awesome continue making firearms history coming to life PS: pleeeeease find a fedorov avtomat for us

[@themischeifguide]

I have one of these TS carbine that still has the cuts for this grenade launcher, I didnt know what it was until I saw this.

[@Punisher9419]

That's super clever.

[@invertedRDM]

Does the linkage to the second sear make the trigger pull worse? I hear carcanos aren't match to begin with, but it seems like it'd add weight and maybe some annoying wiggle to the trigger

[@migraine461]

They are years ahead of their tech

[@CA58CA]

I didn't know modello also made grenade launchers. I guess it is brewed with a fighting spirit

[@TroopperFoFo]

These Italian gun names always sound like fancy Pasta recipes.

[@User-1147]

Villa perrossa, Le exquisite rare pasta only found on the italian alps

[@User-1147]

Bruh why are you so angry of my lack of knowledge about italian culture, lol all that is required is mamma mia pizza pasta. 🇮🇹 😂

[@User-1147]

Also how did I mangle the name villar perrosa, can you hear me through your screen?

[@patrickvedder2623]

Wow. Cool! Standard ball round + grenade = Italian grenade launcher. That’sa spicy meat-a-ball!!!

[@Wambi45]

Too bad they abandonned this idea. They could have developped different types of grenades instead

[@GadgetPonyGal]

Hey Ian, why don't you get something like a cheap endoscope for your phone or something? (Assuming you have a phone that can accept them, that is.) It would probably really help you show off bits of guns your normal cameras wouldn't be able to see, like the inside of that grenade cup, or down really tight parts of guns that you want to show off? The cheapest one I saw on Amazon went for like $18-$20, so they're really not that expensive. I'd consider it a worthwhile investment.

[@antonw-uw4ov]

+ForgottenWeapons If you're ever passing through Sweden i have a 1944 m/96 swedish mauser in almost mint condition and some swedish army ammo from the 40s that shoots great... it's a shame that you have not done a video on the greatest mauser of them all ;-)

[@l1nus0nl1neproductions9]

Great, now I can't wait to be using this in Battlefield 5 😃

[@oesterreicha]

epic beautiful weapon...

[@samuelcruz8485]

*Puts two bolts in* *laughs in Italian*

[@monroetoolman]

Who dislikes a video about grenade launchers?

[@gonnegottkehaskamp1667]

I love to see a new gun added to BFV and a couple days later KZbin recommends me Ian's video on it. You can set the clock to people googling it to see if its real and then watching the video on it. XD

[@taylorgozzo935]

Did that assault mortar you spoke of have a magazine? And also, what was the name of that mortar?

[@anonimo6458]

This is some genius shit man.

[@Sigmanonymous]

I think Denix needs to see these videos. Maybe get some ideas for neater replicas for reinactors or costumers. I'd buy the hell out of em.

[@jquinones7683]

Im curious do they show Ian's videos at the auction or is it just a benefit to those who research whats being sold before the auction?

[@goast_the_vixen7428]

love this gun

[@44WarmocK77]

Reminds me of the Wehrmacht's attempt for a similar grenade launcher (I guess now we know where they got the idea from ^^), which was supposed to use the standard rifle grenade dispenser cup and parts of the receiver of the Karabiner 98. Didn't work because the rifle grenades showed stability issues during the flight.

[@General_Rubenski]

Will you be doing a review on the brixia mortar as well?

[@pigdrt]

Fun Tastic ! but #1 could it be shoulder fired #2 is it a destructive device #3 at 11:28 what is that knob is it an adjustable gas vent? thanks

[@flyingninja1234]

I'm surprised they didn't opt for offensive concussion grenades, that uses the explosive force instead of fragmentation. I didn't know anything like this existed. Thanks.

[@saulalifi8262]

Would a second seer and spring added not double the weight of the trigger pull?

[@SJB2000]

I wonder if this is in my recommendations because bf5 just dropped it 🤔

[@beavisbutt-headson3223]

Man, this is like the Blues Brothers mall that got trashed: "This place has got everything!"

[@jacobpaulsen9540]

what does the knob on the bottom of the grenade launcher do?

[@paciughissimo]

I read about the tromboncino in ~1930 military manuals but I never saw one, by late thirties it had already been withdrawn from use

[@hippolyteandrieu9159]

Ingenious

[@supersportimpalass]

Here to check it out before the BFV release.

[@worldtraveler930]

Oooo, look a Italian golf ball launcher. 🙂

[@brunocarmo6974]

whats that "knob" under the grenade cup?

[@EdTheMole]

I just have one question what was the knob near the muzzle of the launcher?

[@neutronalchemist3241]

It's the external part of a spring-loaded plate that holds the grenade in place.

[@CaptainGrief66]

In italian these would be called "Lanciagranate" ("Lancha Granateh" -Grenade Launcher) Tromboncino is the diminutive of Trombone, which is a type of instrument

[@federicocentrone9875]

Are you Italian?

[@Schmidt54]

neat and crazy, must be from Italy!