'Modern Marx' Piketty vs team 'Modinomics': The economy debate

Three of the most influential economists, Chief Economic Adviser Arvind Subramanian, Niiti Aayog member Bibek Debroy and author of the book 'Capital' Thomas Piketty -- come together to debate India's economic future. From Income Tax data to Raghuram Rajan's comment that defaulters should not flaunt their wealth to the inheritance tax - watch the divergent views from the Left and the Right in this NDTV exclusive.
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[@nghaktluanga2552]

Thomas is giving a valid arguments about extreme short fall in the public expenditures. It's a sort of disgrace to be among the fastest growing economy at the same time not getting the gained growth to the masses, in fact we bottomed the BRICS nations in terms of percentage of public spending against the GDP. I'm with Thomas as regards to the need for more transparency in tax regimes, the RTI issues, need for state capacity buildings etc. However, he seem to not too much understand about the micro-structural parts, the caste scenario, political vibes, cultural diversity of the nation which often make the public investment not fruitful enough as it has to be.

[@freddyhalasanbutarbutar9286]

It's funny to see the way of Indian's expressing their arguments, high tone is important for them. On the other side, Piketty have no issues at all in expressing his idea. This video will better off if there is no high-tone arguments.

[@madhusudhan62]

Why our panelists denying our inequality? It is equally important as growth if not more ,why are we justifying our poor health care and education our governments helping private schools and hospitals grow and framing policies of providing health care through private hospitals through public exchequer,and education through private schools

[@multimicky90]

Comments on this video are quite astonishing ! We spend 1/3rd the amount compared to China on healthcare, our life expectency compared to a country with similar per capita income i.e. Vietnam is 10 years lesser. Piketty also makes a good point in saying that may be we need to move away from caste based reservation to wealth based reservation but ofcourse the census data would be paramount in deciding that which the govt. hasn't released. As far as Tax statistics is concerned Bibek Debroy might be right but Piketty does make a good point that inspite of 10 years of RTI we still do not have publicly available tax data.

[@aloshyreji4313]

Mayank Gupta true.. this model propagated by Modi is a disastrous one..one which failed in West..

[@arunsar7893]

@@aloshyreji4313 I am so happy that such stupid ideas didn't find any space.

[@roopmukherjee3006]

Dr Debroy has hit to the point. The subsidies which comprises 40% of GDP, which had been camouflaged for the poor, had benefitted select few over the last 6 decades.. Rightly said Dr. Debroy...

[@Sidtube10]

Not 40%, but 14% of the GDP benefited the pampered middle class per the caption.

[@roopmukherjee3006]

Corporate flaunting money even though they are indebted to banks.. The Corporates in India has followed the principle " Pocket the profits, Distribute the losses ". The Corporates who are primarily traders have looted the country bone dry conniving with the politicians and corrupt have left the common man high and dry with NPA.. After the difficult days of lockdown, the corporates will line up with their begging bowl for waivers and the government will oblige them for future considerations....

[@sivaratnamasabaratnam8946]

Room Mukherjee........since East Indies Company!

[@gogol1950]

Thomas Piketty is talking Economics. Bibek Debroy is just trying to entangling him into Indian policies without much resistance against Piketty's argument.

[@sushant5380]

What was Barkha's point at 20:40 ? Wealthy people can keeping owing money to the banks as long as they don't flaunt it?

[@suprabhasharma3178]

Thomas is Bang on While the two Gentlemen are on an absolute Denial mode😝

[@alcarajo61]

Is not about equality is about equity :)

[@sandeepvk]

Modern Monetary policy advocates that we can forget about the old deficit based model and balancing of budgets. Perhaps we can spend more and forget about deficit for few years ?

[@mpscgscentre5428]

P Sainath has better answers than all three panelists

[@gauravjain6068]

I think Bibek took it little too seriously, it just an NDTV debate not a budget in making :-P

[@madhusudhan62]

His worry is that these ideas may spread easily across country India is the only country where rich are getting away with few taxes and less social security to the citizens

[@janasenafollower8437]

caste based reservations,they are for a separate purpose.They are for people who are socially,economically and politically suppressed.Economical status is only one of the issues and yeah on the ground it is easy to get an income certificate with whatever number on it by bribing the officers. But i agree with the creamy layer concept at the state level,If the parents enjoy the reservation the children should not be getting reservations.I strongly believe in that.But we are not ready to debate about this when people like hardik patel are holding a gun,the patidars indulging in violence and demanding for reservations to be lifted.The debate should happen in a healthy atmosphere.

[@arthigamyafinancialservice3793]

Bibek Debroy is vicious. So erudite a real treat to hear these 3!

[@prateekagrawal389]

Thomas piketty all the way!! What insights & what presentation!! wonderful.........

[@abhimanyukarnawat7441]

how do feel,i mean being an idiot must be hard?

[@prateekagrawal389]

Abhimanyu Karnawat ha ha....please go ask Mr Modi..he can tell better! More experienced than me in being an idiot!

[@abhimanyukarnawat7441]

fuck off you jealous socialist go live in north korea or cuba,no inequality,equal misery.

[@prateekagrawal389]

Abhimanyu Karnawat he he! Agyaan ke devta tumko mera shat shat naman!

[@abhimanyukarnawat7441]

Pickett is a socialist,85% tax on the wealthy seems like jealousy,also men are not equal never have been never will be.agyan ka devta?lol.I have a degree in maths and he has been busted mathematically by base in taleb.Also greece was doing really good too,but as lady Thatcher said the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money,Fuck picketty.

[@kasuabhinav]

Well this is the real face of India, people who make valid points are always silenced... there is a honesty phobia prevailing in India

[@AnandGurumoorthy]

I think the present demonetization move and other anticipated moves will bring down inequality as Thomas Piketty desired.

[@aloshyreji4313]

Anand Gurumoorthy not really...86% of black money is parked in assets...and tax evasion is done on a much larger scale and is far more sophisticated.. let's wait...DTAA agreements might help..so will changes in Benami Act

[@SaiPrabanjan]

Bibek simply owning the discussion. Happy to see people like this fire brand are still working on the government high positions.

[@kasuabhinav]

Toxic Diplomacy is a serious problem

[@rosarosa6715]

Arvind picked up clues from Debroy, and came across as not knowledgeable. To bring up trickle down theory!

[@vijay-bn4ve]

mr debroy- very bad manners to point your finger while talking

[@bhupesh232422]

Haha bibek really nailed Thomas. Made valid point.

[@Sohaaam1]

I look at the dumb comments in this thread & I laugh at the stupidity of all armchair economists who dont know a think. Thomas is one of the greatest economists in modern history & his work on the Laffer curve, capital, capital accumulation vs GDP growth is truly astounding. I would have given a critique on this video but people here are not qualified to understand this. Having said that, I don't consider people like Debroy or Panagariya as serious economists, they are mostly political stooges who have little respect globally & I have serious concerns about such people. I also hate the fact that Barkha Dutt of all people with her low credibility & little idea about economics should host such an event.

[@ankitbhattacharjee280]

Arvind Panagariya is a Professor of Economics at Columbia University and ex-Chief Economist of the Asian Development Bank (ADB). He's also been well-involved with other institutions like the World Bank and IMF. To say that he is unqualified to comment on the economic scenario of this country, and dismiss him as a political stooge, does nothing but display your own deep-seated bias and hate towards specific political entities. Grow up and engage with the facts, rather than drool over a socialist economist ticking off the talking points of traditional Marxist economic theory.

[@Sohaaam1]

I am not sure you are qualified enough to understand this but anyone & everyone is a professor at a big US Uni these days - I mean shabby is an understatement for prof quality. Subaramaniam freaking Swamy has taught at Harvard, talk about delusional professors. No1 gives a sh** about Panagariya outside India, he is barely considered an economist. I don't have bias or hatred towards any political entities, I am just a more knowledgable & intelligent person than others. I supported Modi in the 2014 election despite his many flaws. As for engagement with socialist I hope you are away the entire world is full of left wing ultra liberal economists, that is 90% of the the intelligentsia, look as the US universities, conservatives face a silent boycott. There is not a single god damn capitalist country left with the US also going leftwards, entire Europe is governed by Social Democrats n similar parties. As for my ideology I admire right to centrist economists like Arvind Subramaniam & Rajan as well for their tremendous integrity n ideas. I disagree with them deeply of fiscal policies but I respect their ideas. I have followed Panagariya's work enough to know that he is a political stooge & a complete lackey of Modi. I mean the kind of cheap comments he made as head of the NITI Aayog after assuming office was so low that he would have been fired in any other country. No other country in the world would allow this. If a person holding a federal position like say Janet Yallen in US did this, she would hell to pay. Lastly I would ask you to not post the credentials of others if you yourself are not capable of having a rational discussion about this. If you are qualified enough to understand Pikett's work, his disproval of the Laffer curve, what Marx proposed n where he was right n he was wrong, don't comment. I dont think people with so little knowledge should discuss. Next time you post, I would ask you a couple of questions from Pikettty's Capital to see if you are qualified to have a discussion with

[@Sohaaam1]

I thought should I dignify your stupidity with a comment? Maybe this is a comment. But this isn't just about qualifications. Panagariya has always been a political hack, no sensible person can even argue about that. The guy has lied, kissed a** & campaigned for Modi. He had denigrated himself to such lows that he is not even worth commenting. But his work is also painfully mediocre. I like Subramaniam even though I don't agree ideologically with him in many cases because his is based on quality, knowledge, logic & thoughtfulness. Based on their work, I rate Rajan way higher than Arvind S. Piketty is obviously one of the most famous economists in the world & I like him not because of his credentials but because I have read his work & analyzed it bit by bit - "Capital in the 21st Century" had some solutions which I don't agree with but it is a fascinating read & an absolutely amazing work. As for your ridiculous comments about localization, that dumbf**k comments is something any1 who doesn't know a damn thing will argue because that is an okay to assert that the guy is not clueless. As a matter of fact Panagariya & Debroy look even more ridiculous in the Indian context. I don't think you have read much of macro to even debate that.

[@Sohaaam1]

I told you the fact that you argue that there are macro-economic models taken up in China & superimposed in Russia or India shows you absolutely nothing about Macro-economics & neither have you studied it properly. This is the reason I try & avoid discussions in this thread because the other guys often doesn't have the knowledge about the subject to even argue..

[@Sohaaam1]

I feel we very stupid replying to this ridiculous thread. I don't even know why I am doing here, first time I am arguing economics with noobs in a KZbin comments section & that is because the stupidity of the comments here. I would give you guys a link to my paper. Laissez-Faire theory has been dead for 84 years now. There is a not a single Laissez faire country left. UK like many other European countries is not different from the Social Democrats in Mid-europe to the Socialists in the NORDIC or France. They have a World Class Free Public School education, a significant infra plan, huge social security & ofcourse NHS which is largely public based which is basically a Single Payer where everey man, woman & child is guaranteed free World Class Healthcar. And I don't even want to go into how open there economy is. Almost every major country in history has had some protectionist government in its high growth system. Japan had a Zaibatsu system which allowed Mitsui type org. to grow & the Japanese totally controlled everything. South Korea's miracle growth story was on the banks of even more restrictive Quota system & hugely protectionist policies. I could talk in length about South Korea. Europe & US too had various sort of restrictions. Nissan couldn't sell their cars in Europe due to various importing restrictions. USA is obviously a classic case where taxes generally varied from 70 to 94% till 1980 odd. Until they started the failed Trickle Down Economics (better called Voodoo economics) which has made the American Middle class collapse with median "Real" incomes stagnant (& Falling if you are a white man), the bottom quintile seeing falling wages, 47M in poverty, half of people in 55-65 having 0 in retirement benefits, most people unable to afford medicines. US grew on the back of the New Deal, huge public investment in infra, high taxes, huge investment in Education which gave US world class universities giving incredibly cheap education & there are many other reasons. And as for the so-called models, it is a dumb argument. No1 follows any model while arguing macro-economics. Rather in an micro-economic case, you may actually try to create a model. Macro is based not on models, but on fundamental universally proven aspects. And there are so many factors involved that most are based on Factor X not interfering in Aspect C etc - In other words creating an acceptable model is virtually impossible as most factors are affecting the issue simultaneously. What is proven is the supply curve, the demand curve, the shifting of curves, affect on monetary or fiscal policy on these curves, Expansionary/Contractionary policies, MPC/MPS, GDP multipliers, GDP stabilizers etc etc. Models are & was disputable & no economist argue on any stupid model rather on universally known & proven assumptions (which are an absolute handful) And new government policies are not made on theoretical models but on universally accepted macro-principles or on globally borrowed best practises which are ofcourse debated extensively by the experts to argue about the suitability in localized conditions.

[@bashisthadevthakur7786]

Awesome Awesome 👌

[@perobusmaximus]

30:48 bingo!

[@suyashbhardwaj3419]

15:07 Isn't it obvious when he said that Health belongs with the State list, B Dutt

[@manassurya2019]

India's primary problem is an extremely low tax to gdp ratio. People simply don't pay taxes here. Which means that no matter how the government divides the budget, there simply won't be enough money to deliver proper services.

[@mukulshahane5970]

That is partly because we have exempted a large population from direct taxes by exempting agri income & too many exemptions & deductions for companies and also basic exemption limit.

[@donbuddha8341]

Piketty what a man

[@user-tm8wy1hx7n]

I love bibek debroy. He got so much in his mind.

[@DipakBose-bq1vv]

There are too many ways to avoid taxes. Thus, tax policy will not work in India, it will only increase the income from bribes for the officers. GST has ruined the finances of the states. Thus, the states cannot spend on health and education. People go to Government Hospitals to die. Government schools do not have students.

[@MrVarunparmar]

thomas was giving all hypothetical solutions to complicated problems.Economic disparity of countries in europe and Americana is 10 times higher than india.So getting substantial data on income tax doesn't help with anything.Thomas wanted to implement a model of reservation based on economic division but that would indirectly fuel villagers to enjoy poverty.Plus he kept complimenting the European health care policies but doesnt prove that they are better for developing countries. The fact that Barkha was supporting Thomas through out whole discussion proved that Thomas never did his research thoroughly.Both the gentlemen from india presented strong arguments with facts and rational solutions.

[@IsaiahSellassie]

Capital accumulation, productivity increases and growth are the only way to conquer poverty.

[@aloshyreji4313]

Drvenom read the latest data on inequality...

[@vishnu.n.r.8223]

28:03 30.19

[@janasenafollower8437]

And inheritance tax and some other "socialist" ideas and worldwide taxing on rich etc i believe janasena party also supports them :)

[@sharkbyteseasystems]

piketty is world class unpad.

[@abhimanyukarnawat7441]

I agree,sir.

[@DipakBose-bq1vv]

Modi has failed in his economic policy but highly successful in the non-economic policy. Bibek Deb Roy could not get a Ph.D. He failed to get one.

[@amitsrivastava2958]

Whats with this aaa..aaa.aaa.aaaaaa.aaaaaaaa. Mr Subramanian ?

[@IndianConnection]

Ltd Liability gone passed over her head.

[@OsmanabadEye]

Very less time given to Thomas.. why only others are talking..

[@vaibhavgupta20]

bibek is angry.

[@vineshdeshmukh4215]

Debroy was not making any sense apart from not able to listen, not able to accept, he was always in denial, used senseless arguments which showed his own and governments short comings. Resorted typical blaming reason of past 60 years. Felt arrogant at times. Subramanian was getting everything and mildly tried to balance. Piketty was straight and logical, countered all the illogical arguments. He seems to have better understanding about Indian inequality that Debroy. Unfortunate! @Debroy, learn if possible! @Subramanian, be courageous!

[@kishorgaikwad9420]

All he will get is a very reluctant data. And it will be helpful for his future study. And he will not find any inequality next year.

[@interestingvideos6978]

Anyone who advocates for higher tax and more government spending and intervention cannot call himself a free marketer. Bibek debroy is a centrist at best.

[@IsaiahSellassie]

Oh, I'm sure the best way to have a "left" and "right" debate is to stack the panel with three leftists. I can't really blame you for not having a liberal, because there aren't any in India.

[@kishorgaikwad9420]

Inequality in india? What's this man talking about

[@abhiumn]

It doesn't seem like Thomas has any grasp of constitutional framework (and he is not expected to) which dictates expenditure for specific sectors by State and Union government in India. Hence his points are moot. That further proves that he has been brought to belittle the government without informed critique. And Burkha's lack of grasp on the topic is pretty obvious.

[@DT-eg4ip]

Only Vivek Debroy makes sense.

[@rajumenon3434]

Thomas Piketty is talking about govt public spending in everything. Govt should be change agent, support only those limited services that only govt can support.

[@aaronmathias6739]

Raju Menon And what "limited services" should the Government restrict itself to? Because if left to itself any Government would love to abdicate responsibilities & enforce duties on its citizen.

[@pappi3]

Why are we even considering the Marx's view who was totally ignorant about India. He never visited India but made assumptions about the India based on what ignorant British wrote about India based on their level of understanding. He also hailed the destruction done by British. More over he was just a lunatic who never worked in his entire life. Lived on the donations of wealthy people and making his family deliberately live in poverty.

[@whatslifespurpose]

Have you even read what Marx wrote about the plunder of India by British Imperialism?

[@pappi3]

Whatever knowledge he gained about India was through the sources of the same Imperialist agents. He never visited India but still made assumptions out of the information he got from 3rd party sources. So why even consider giving him so much importance in India? Don't we know the reality of British imperialism and the destruction they did in India? Why rely on his words? Why give him so much of importance in India? He may be/was popular in some country but his theories are not so workable anymore.

[@OneDharmaYouMovement]

India has no history England has two roles one to destroy Indian culture two to replace it with western materialism. -Marx His views on slavery was that it was a good thing.

[@r.v.7322]

Seems you never read Karl Marx.

[@tommathew7684]

From 1963 to 2013, America largely focused on being the largest narcotraffiker on the planet. This, along with broadly reduced tax rates, enabled us to have massive wealth. After, the murders of Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi, America took over India's massive opium/morphine trade. This was countenanced by India's Congress Party largely benefiting Kerala. The aristocracy of America washed their wealth in Switzerland.

[@NoAmmo22]

Wow. Debroy was bang on! Aravind looked more reserved. Piketty's ideas were laughable

[@rajchauhan77]

piketty got schooled

[@tommathew7684]

Mr. Picketty is largely explaining a Marxist/Leninist viewpoint.

[@TheRishijoesanu]

Rickety Piketty gets schooled by Debroy

[@saptarsimondal7653]

Lol! At best, this Piketty could be a liberal Keynesian economist who knows how to calculate inequality but doesn't know how it could harm society. Because this type of Keynesian economist never looked at the relationship between the workers and owner class in a typical industry or production system!

[@srinjansaha2480]

Piketty is again providing the same old arguments that has kept us down this long....

[@rajumenon3434]

NDTV's fascination with Marxist, Leftists, and separatists just amazes me. When Capitalism is clear winner of economic models why NDTV is toying with failed socialistic models.

[@StephenSchleis]

Raju Menon capitalism is the clear winner in creating an explosive death economy.

[@oniongingertomato2216]

If USA looks like utopia and everyone there is happy then yes capitalism succeeded.