Modernizing Old Machinery- Milling Machine VFD

[@toddsutton5672]

so your going to run non inverter rated motors with a vfd. how long are they going to last.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Yup, not over driving them. What's the difference in running a 3ph motor on 3ph and running a 3ph motor on 3ph? Good question right? Over driving beyond 60 Hz is the problem. Been running my 1944 Dewalt RAS with a VFD for going on 5 years now almost daily with no problems. Oh and it runs for hours at a time sometimes, doesn't even get warm. Have you tried it? Did you run one a 120Hz and wonder why in failed? Did you let the smoke out? Just wondering if you actually did something or your just making up something to say just to leave a comment. Easy to go negative. Try positive instead. Maybe this will work? What are the limitations? Do I need to run at 600 Hz because the VFD is rated for it? What's the application? How much load is there? On and on.....Thanks for commenting.

[@toddsutton5672]

Running 2 vfds but i have motors rated for them. and low hz also causes problems. I have a 10 hp leblond nc converting to cnc. debating on running the old 10 hp on an inverter or not.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Yes low Hz can also cause issues. In my experience the motors seem to strain more going high as opposed to low. I try to stay at 60Hz for sustained runs but do adjust up or down a bit somethings to dial in. No problems so far. The biggest issue I have read about or that comes up the most is bearing failure due to the carrier frequency. Watching out for that. 10 hp is a lot. The higher you go the more lose you will have. Just my thought, never dealt with more than 3 hp for a VFD. How are you running now? Hope your shop is back together!

[@toddsutton5672]

are you referring to my video. lol nope its not going to happen. no money got screwed by insurance. I have a 30 x50 shop still standing. and its full. the lathe is not running yet doing the mods. different servos an such.

[@soundmapper]

I have a Rockwell mill with what I think are bad bearings in the motor. Runs OK, but periodically makes "honk" sounds which I think is vibration. It's very random, and sometimes is constant. Might change the 110 motor out to a 3phase with a vfd.

[@petera1033]

Very informative and beautifuly produce - thanks.Pete

[@iamrichrocker]

an excellent machinist using a great mechanical pencil..lol...not surprised...You are a meticulous and exacting worker..fantastic series..enjoyed it very much..and i can tell you surely enjoyed this too!

[@BurtonsAttic]

I do Rich, glad you did as well!

[@JimDockrellWatertone]

Polishing the end cap on the motor was overkill and I approve. Wonderful attention to detail.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Jim, pretty easy to do. Didn't want to paint them since I could make it shine! It will fade a little over time.......

[@gorillaau]

@@BurtonsAttic perhaps a clear coat would be a compromise.... or borrow a can of hair spray :-)

[@Mtlmshr]

My head exploded with all that “VF& SFL” talk, it’s all French to me!! I’ve never been a electrician type person! When I start working on electrics the electrons start leaking all over the floor and I end up with a big puddle of them or me screaming because I’ve just electrocuted myself!!! So well done and good for you.

[@flashpointrecycling]

Wow, I stepped away for a minute (I had to feed my dog) and those motors turned brand new looking. Now I am going back to watch it again. amazing!

[@BurtonsAttic]

To bad it doesn't really happen that fast!

[@flashpointrecycling]

@@BurtonsAttic - you said it! Still, I love to watch and pretend. I am working on a Monarch 14WAA and a unique Southbend 16 at the same time. Sometimes I think OMG what have I done! You show me that there is a glorious end after just 16 or so 30 minute videos. You are a machine GAWD! Thankyou

[@BurtonsAttic]

@@flashpointrecycling One at a time!

[@flashpointrecycling]

@@BurtonsAttic - ya funny! I am currently editing another note to you pertaining to just one major problem related to working on more then one at a time. You´ll have it in a minute.

[@bernardcartwright9272]

At last someone who really does do a restoration. Not a quick wipe with an oily rag and a lick of paint. Your work reminds me of the Swiss guy (my mechanics) who works to a perfect restoration, not to a time limit. Well done.

[@MegaViking00]

What a great and simple use of a motor to make a grinder

[@redbutler751]

I'm going now back, rewatch the whole series and put the like button on all vids! I'm sorry your vids don't have more likes bc this series on mill repair is THE BEST! (Damn yt algorithm) your paint job is fantastic, your explanations to point, your knowledge of vfd is of a professional. Your skills and patience to do this, are huge! I'm 3 years late but to answer your last question: yes please talk on forever about how old machines controllers can be replaced with vfd. I wish ToT could help you grow your channel.

[@thinkclear5292]

Modern VFDs with sensorless vector control are great, not as powerful as real gears, but close enough for daily use. This is why I like machines with a back gear and VFD, best of both worlds in my mind. Keep it going!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Haven't used in much in backgear with the VFD yet. I have a NMTB30 ER40 tool holder for the horizontal now. I was thinking to do a video on it and the RPM sensor mount for that spindle.

[@alston523]

Man! I just found this channel is Gold. Clear explanation and informative. I learned things after watching your video. Keep it up!!!👍

[@motopreserve]

Well done sir! This restoration series was nothing shy of addictive. Watched all 6 installments in a single sitting. I appreciate that you're focused on function - but with your attention to detail, the machine ends up looking gorgeous as well. Should bring you many years of reliable service. Please keep up the great work and keep the videos coming!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks! You watched "The Milling Machine Movie" all 1 1/2 hours worth!

[@motopreserve]

@@BurtonsAttic Haven't been to a movie theatre in forever - but this was well worth the time! :)

[@eddiev.3059]

You did a great job with this project. I acquired a Jet JVM-840 in similar condition for free. The 1.5hp 3PH motor was dead so I decided to do a DC conversion since I was able to get motor and drive for under $90. Really enjoyed watching the restoration. Subscribed

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks! Sounds like a good deal Eddie. What is the power rating for the motor?

[@John_Ridley]

Inspiring. Came for the Rockwell Lathe restore, now going back through this. I bought the same Rockwell lathe and am right now working on a restore, Mine is in generally good shape but as far as I can tell nobody has ever lubricated it. The grease is black and hard and the ways seem to have molasses on them. But it's cleaning up nicely. I appreciate the work that goes into filming all this. I am just taking photos.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Good luck John. A lot of times grease and oil will just dry up and harden slightly if it in the right environment and things are not moved. Hey that helped preserve it!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Send me a photo when your done if you like.

[@JourneymanRandy]

The motors look brand new. You must be happy with it. Great tool to have in the shop.

[@scroungasworkshop4663]

Don’t tell the design engineers that it’s always the rear bearing that goes. We would expect them to beef up the rear bearing right, wrong, they’ll reduce the size of the front bearing 😂😂😂. I really enjoyed the series so a big thank you for making it. Cheers Stuart 🇦🇺

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Scrounga

[@rolliekelly6783]

It's the bean counters making the decision.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

I just found your channel (Part 1 of your mill restoration series was in my recommended list,) and I gotta say, you really brought that mill back from the dead! Subbed and shared for sure! Now that I'm finished with the mill series, I'm of to go binge watch the rest of your channel. Thanks for doing what you do! Hope to see a lot more in the future!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Mark!

[@Rob89139]

After watching this series Im thinking Burton has the coolest toys in his attic..... really enjoyed watching

[@BurtonsAttic]

Awesome Rob Thanks!

[@daveanderson2316]

Excellent, not only in terms of project, but in presentation. Thank you. Subscribed!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Dave, glad you enjoyed it!

[@19441978]

Enjoyed the rebuild videos on both the mill and the lathe. You have a lot of patience and are a very good craftsman. Thanks

[@Pnrc-b2u]

Just stumbled onto this. Really enjoyed it

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Peter!

[@johnhumphreys9732]

Beautiful work!

[@ryancale7524]

I was wondering where you sourced your enclosure switches, rpm meter and wiring and if you could provide a wiring diagram for your build.

[@dannywilsher4165]

You got that mill performing probably better than new. Good job!!! Hope you didn't suffer any damage in hurricane Florence! I lost everything I owned in Harvey. But we are fighting back!!!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Sorry to hear that you suffered so much. We only lost a few tree limbs.......I hope your insurance is taking care of it. Take care Danny.

[@dannywilsher4165]

@@BurtonsAttic Thank you sir, we had homeowners insurance and the adjuster came by just to tell us they were denying our claim. They said the hurricane didn't do any damage, it was the flood waters that did the damage so they weren't liable. I had water over my roof. Lots of fun!!!

[@MegaViking00]

Amazing restoration

[@alfredodokaj7177]

Your work is so professional Glad i came a cross to this Chanel Thanks for sharing

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Al! Always try to do the best I can!

[@Smedleydog1]

Your videos are extremely satisfying to watch. I just binge watched this milling machine restoration. Now I have go back into the attic. It's like an addiction.

[@davelewis3963]

You do great work. Really appreciate the time you have put into this series!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Dave glad that you enjoyed it!

[@normantorok5919]

love the vids. Makes me want to start over at 50 and become a machinist...just great.

[@michaelidarecis]

New old stock bearings are always a win. Have been selling them for years and after a few hundred sold none came back.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Not to mention the cost!

[@MakinSumthinFromNuthin]

Terrific job on the restoration of that mill, enjoyed the entire series~ Richard

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Richard!

[@engineeramitbhaskar4121]

Nice work

[@kendallchaffeeband]

I am interested in the secondary control box and how you wired your components together. I would love more information on this if possible. I enjoy your series. I too have both a Rockwell Vertical and horizontal mill. Not much out there on Rockwell's and you've done a nice job of cataloging your work. Greatly appreciated.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Kendall it's pretty straight forward with the help of the VFD diagram that's in the manual. Based on that you can determine how many circuits/wires are needed and of course how many switches etc. There are other arrangements possible also in the manual. One thing to note that I don't think I mentioned is that the RPM display can't be power from the VFD as the pulse can interfere with the potentiometer signal. It maybe possible if isolated properly but I just used a separate wall wort type PS to not have to worry about it. Thanks!

[@AT16]

Love your videos. Really great to see machines brought back to life!

[@Bread996]

Sealed bearings last as long as the grease remains in the race. Smaller bearings hold less grease, and dry up first. They put the big bearing in the front to handle the lateral load from the belt, but it also happens to hold more greasee allowing it to live longer. In machines I service with a grease zerk on both ends, both bearings last forever (If maintained).

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks for you insight Bread!

[@PhilVandelay]

Wow I really enjoyed this entire project. When I first saw the mill I thought it's too far gone to bring it back. Just great work and dedication all around, I can't believe you manged to get it looking and working like a new machine. Great editing and narration too. I hope a lot more people start watching this! I'd be interested to see some measurements in the future as to what kind of precision it's still capable of, considering the rust had been nibbling away at it.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Hey thanks for the kind works Phil! Believe it or not all of the precision surfaces (with the exception of the table top) where well protected and cleaned up with no pitting! The table has some very minor pitting, more like etching at the far ends. So no big deal as you would very rarely need to use the very end of the table. The 2 U shaped brackets that I made to mount the control box are accurate to .001"/.025mm with no DRO! With a DRO I'm sure that .0005" is possible and I do plan to put one on it at some point in the future. Glad you enjoyed it!

[@PhilVandelay]

​@@BurtonsAttic Good to know, this whole project makes me look at old rusted up machines like that in a totally different light. I guess the rust doesn't penetrate as deep into the alloys they use for these machines and it looks much worse than it is. Looking forward to seeing the mill in action some more

[@BurtonsAttic]

@@PhilVandelay it's all cast iron. One observation that I have made over time working with rusty stuff is that the smoother the surface is to begin with it doesn't pit as bad if at all. Once the rust forms it's kind of like a protective barrier. The rougher the surface the more likely it's will hold moisture and cause significant pitting. Also this machine was stored outdoors for a long unknown to me period of time. It was in a yard and was completely in the sun all day. That may have help with no pitting damage as it had a chance to dry out everyday. Yeah I know! Most people would look at this machine and say "No Way"! Sometimes it works out!

[@joshuaplummer1274]

Great video

[@keikun6969original]

While I have absolutely NO idea of anything you described about the VFD, I love this project

[@BurtonsAttic]

Hey that's what's great about KZbin! You saw/learned something new! Like your screen name!

[@hussainali9999]

Very good work throughout beginning to finish, thank you for sharing from SA

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks for the support Hussain!

[@sblack48]

Nice job. If you want to take it the rest of the way, like the last 5%, scrape the ways and cut proper oil groves into the ways. Then the machine will be super smooth, super rigid, will give great finishes and last forever. And scraping is a fun skill to learn. Lots of info on KZbin. I always liked the Rockwell mill. Way better than a ru fong milldrill.

[@2aklamath]

Wonderful Job ! What a Deal even though a lot of work sure is nice having a R-8 spindle and a Horizontal as well ! Thank You for the Great video's !

[@bobbystanley8580]

I love how you made the case to swivel.

[@douglaswhite9095]

That is nice work looking to have more as you do other projects.

[@JT-qf4it]

Enjoyed watching the series. Beautiful work.

[@glennicholson3028]

Awesome video! Love the part on parameters.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Glen!

[@rotattor]

Awesome video ! Loved the display panel and workmanship, just subscribed.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Robin, that was a fun part to figure out. I like the way it turned out also!

[@ter757]

EXCELLENT work and video !!!!!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Terry!

[@CraftedChannel]

We'll done series. Subscribed. I knew when I saw the seal driving kit come out, this is no amateur.

[@rbarnes4081]

EXCELLENT VIDEO - THANK YOU!

[@Georges-MILLION]

Bonjour . Et bien nous voilà à la fin de cette magnifique restauration Toutes mes félicitations pour ce travail très propre . Georges Hello . Well here we are at the end of this magnificent restoration Congratulations on this very clean job. Georges

[@BurtonsAttic]

merci monsieur!

[@sperrtechnik]

greetings from germany, great work

[@dinotom1]

Great job on the motors and the controls. I restored a 5 hp motor on a DeWalt GE from 1942, when I opened it up the windings were like it just came from the factory after I blew out all the sawdust. New bearings and it runs smooth as silk.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Awesome, thanks for sharing! Old American 3ph induction motors are so durable! My saw is a GP and it's WW2 era as well!

[@williamcunha9136]

You did a Amazing Job.Congrats

[@JamesDedmon]

Like the set up, on my Lagun I went with a static phase converter. I’ve been well pleased

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks James, I'm really happy with the end result. It was like restoring a small car or rebuilding an engine; a lot of parts there! A VFD is so cost effective if your 2hp or under, it's hard to beat! The added functionality allowed me to replace all of the existing electrical that came on the machine and make it better than it was with less! Plus just being able to use the machine at home since I don't have three phase........ I have never worked with a phase convertor, I assume it is 208v split phase input and 230v three phase output like the VFD?

[@JamesDedmon]

First I’m not an electrical guru, I’m using a static phase converter (Phase a Matic) basically you wire 220 single phase in and connect the 3 phase out. You loose about a 1/3 of hp because the motor is generating its own 3rd phase. In my case with a 3 hp mill, I don’t notice the power loss. Plus I didn’t have to do any rewiring of the machine. I did have a BIL who is an electrician help with the install

[@BurtonsAttic]

I did a little reading and figured out how a static phase converter works. Glad it works for you. A VFD appears to be a better solution if sized correctly and for small/medium home shop machines. You will have less power loss. A rotary converter is a different story for larger machines.

[@JamesDedmon]

The reason I went static is the rewiring that is needed with a VFD, I did research it and price would have been the same. The part I wasn’t thrilled about was having to design and build a control system. Yes I loose about 1/3 of my hp but quite frankly I haven’t missed it yet. Now if my goal was to be in a business that I need full capacity of the mill I’d would have looked at other options

[@BurtonsAttic]

Yeah I didn't say it in the video but I spend a lot of time figuring out the VFD, switches, wiring, control boxes etc. I think I spend more time on that than most of the individual components of the mill. Electrical is easy for me so that wasn't really an issue just what components, size, locations etc. I'm sure that I'm losing some power as well. With the VFD being over rated for the application not sure exactly how much. So far I'm not missing it either and low RPM is great! It was a lot of effort but I'm really happy now and so far I'm in for about $500 including the initial purchase and getting it home. DRO and power feed will exceed that cost but in the end I will have a basically new machine with all the features I want!

[@houseofbrokendobbsthings5537]

Very clean design and build. Well done.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Dan!

[@MechanicalRhino]

Awesome work. I am pretty happy I just found your channel. Keep up the good work.

[@1234cdsarver]

Thank you I very much enjoy your videos thanks again

[@grandpacocky7618]

Envy springs to mind...

[@garywills5682]

Good job on the restoration of the mill. Turned out great, the vfd should work well with the motors you have from what ive been able to find out. If it were mine id make a cover for over the horizontal spinde hole, and way cover on the ways on the housing behind table . Yup i like the mill good videos too. Watched them all at one setting. Thanks

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks for commenting Gary. I have since made way covers for the knee and the saddle ways. I think the only thing that I have done that I didn't document in video.

[@passenger6735]

Funny when you mentioned the number of holes in the VFD box. It's like saying; "I'll just quickly make a bracket" ...5 hours later still making it.

[@alphaomegalives]

wow Just watched em all and staring at my 21-120 that i picked up yesterday....hmmmm. anyway to contact you if i dive in?

[@BurtonsAttic]

Wow Bob you watched the Milling Machine Movie! It's all here as much as I could put anyways.

[@alphaomegalives]

@@BurtonsAttic i sent you an email, have some questions on how to wire the vfd for two motors. Tried calling TECO support and in their words "we dont have time to help you with your science project" ugh.... help?

[@Copozeras]

great job! very handy mill i like it

[@rogerhodges7656]

Thank you!

[@95machine29]

Very nice

[@jonathansmith6390]

Burton, you do good work. Regarding you question on motor bearings, failure may be due to heat, not size. The drive end bearing is nearest the fan and normally runs cooler. I saw another comment in here about accommodating shaft expansion from heat. Motors have 1 fixed bearing to hold the rotor in place and one expansion to prevent radial loading. This should be verified on assembly. The reason the bearings are different sizes is that the drive end can have larger radial loads like from belt drives. The blind end has a levered advantage. Vertical mounted motors can have higher axial loads depending on the coupling type and application. Vertical well pumps are an example. When axial loads exceed ball bearing capacities, double ball or tapered or some other design bearings are used. Bearings can be sealed or regreasable. I don't remember the exact number but the instructor in a Timken class said most bearings fail from over greasing. Regarding cost of bearings, you get what you pay for. NEMA sets the frame sizes and performance standards. I'm not sure but would guess they spec a minimum bearing load and life. Motor manufacturers can decide from there how to skin that cat.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks for the well thought out comment Jonathan, good information. On these motors the fans are located on the opposite side from the drive but I hear you about heat being a cause of failure. Not sure how over greasing can cause bearing failure. All the loading bit makes sense. Thanks again for your input.

[@jonathansmith6390]

@@BurtonsAttic Yeah, I wasn't sure about fan location but it still might be heat. A small amount over a long period could be the difference of one bearing preceding the other. Over greasing causes causes heat. I was product mgr for a line of industrial grinders generically known as hammer hogs. These were 100-hp to 1200-hp direct coupled, horizontal shaft garbage disposals for wood waste used at sawmills, pulp mills and recycle facilities. They used taper mounted double row spherical bearings mounted in pillow block housings. They were installed with RTD temp sensors. A properly greased bearing would run 10f above ambient. If over greased they could run 150f over or even more. If the hot bearing was caught before the grease failed, the plug was removed and the hot, melted grease was drained. Over greasing is a common problem in mills on all kinds of equipment. This problem and the better grease available today is probably why sealed bearings are getting more popular. At lease in smaller sizes. That said, some applications where bearings are exposed to dirt and contaminants need to be at least intermittently purged with fresh grease.

[@BurtonsAttic]

@@jonathansmith6390 Wow that's crazy! Thanks for the great information. I'm guessing the excess grease prevents heat dissipation?

[@jonathansmith6390]

@@BurtonsAttic I think its internal friction. Civil engineers have kind of co opted the term but the definition stands. In a perfect world there would only be a thin film of grease between the two otherwise contacting elements, roller and race. Anything more is just excess and in the way, although a small amount is needed as a reservoir to replace grease thrown out of the working area. It's different than oil which flows out and carries heat with it like in an internal combustion engine. If you filled a LS1 engine with enough oil, I would expect it would run at a higher temperature from churning while (creating a huge mess and) causing problems with the crank shaft and rods slapping big sloshes of oil. Like continuous belly flops. Maybe a slipping torque converter would be a better example.

[@espritforokuma8711]

I really enjoy your videos. I'm somewhat of an amateur photographer, so I can appreciate the time it takes to produce these videos. Thanks for putting in the time so others can enjoy. Also, I recently restored a 21-100 (non-horizontal version) and sure enough, that rear bearing is starting to be noisy after only a few hours of use. You show a close-up of the SKF 6203-2RSJ. Do you remember what the size of the other one is? I'd like to get both bearings ordered before I take the motor apart. Thanks again.

[@BurtonsAttic]

I think it's 6304 but I would verify that if I where you. Did you make the snow man?

[@espritforokuma8711]

@@BurtonsAttic Ok. Thanks. The snowman was just a fun holiday marketing thing we did. The footage wasn't great, but the part turned out nice.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Nice job! Steve

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Steve!

[@127069]

your good work earnt a subscription

[@127069]

I meant a subscriber!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Dan!

[@davidadam2531]

Hi. I really enjoy all your cleanup videos. I don.t get out much and KZbin has so much info on it .I do ask if there is a way of running a vfd setup with different machines off one vfd ? Any help would be great .thanks again and keep up with the great work you do

[@davidadam2531]

Thanks for the fast reply. .Will have to look for a rotary converter

[@BurtonsAttic]

Hi David, anything is possible but I don't think that would be very practical as cabling/switching would be an issue. As well all your motors need to be close to the same.

[@davidadam2531]

Hi Thanks for the info , I have gone the VFD s for each machine. Just seams the easiest way for me to go right now . Just to work out a remount to work for each .Most just need a on and off . Got. 3 VFDs in the mail the other day ,just waiting on the machines to get picked up . Will need 2 more ,but wait and see the motor h/p to order them . Got 3 to suit 3 h/p to start with.All the best and thanks for the advice. David

[@fernandonogueira3290]

🎥 Amazing 🎬 ! _ Congratulations! 👍 🇧🇷

[@courtneyfaas1266]

Burton's Attic this is one amazing series but this video by far is exactly what I was looking for. I am working on a older Jet model (basically the same as a Bridgeport but a vertical only model) and am looking at doing almost the exact same setup. Would you mind sharing the parts list for this build? Maybe you did and I missed it and if so I apologize. Thanks

[@BurtonsAttic]

Hi Courtney, thanks. I didn't put together a specific parts list as this kind of machine upgrade is really machine specific. I would use a TECO L510 series VFD if possible. That series is available in a range of input and output voltages, is cost effective, good quality and has all the functions/features that you need. All of the switches, pot, small control box, wire, connectors are available on Amazon. RPM display and VFD mount box I found on eBay. The RPM display can't be powered from the VFD due to electrical interference. This could possibly be over come but I didn't want to invest the time. The easy solution is a wall wort 120VAC to 12VDC power supply to power the display separately. What is the input voltage, phase and HP rating for the motor that you have?

[@courtneyfaas1266]

@@BurtonsAttic so I have 2 machines each with a 2hp, 3ph, 220V motors. So I get to attempt this AT LEAST twice! I also have a 1.5hp 110v lathe that won't need the vfd but I'm still looking at adding a similar setup for a digital rpm gauge and a e-stop but that's fairly straightforward.

[@BurtonsAttic]

@@courtneyfaas1266 Good luck and do let me know if you need help!

[@catcam]

Great content !!!! Tnx for sharing that .

[@Robbiek147]

You could reference your speed sensor with the VFD to get a constant speed while under load.

[@BurtonsAttic]

I'm sure that is possible Rob. I just haven't dived that deep into it. The small looses from load that I get now are very minor. If you care to share how to do it well that would save me a ton of figuring time. Thanks for commenting.

[@mibooth1852]

Loved the restoration of this mill, what size collets / end mills and cutters can you use on it ?

[@BurtonsAttic]

Vert is R8 and Horz NMTB30

[@joed3786]

Hi Burton, and Merry Christmas. Your Video at 21:22 shows you using the Quill to feed the Drill. I am wondering is/was there a reason that you did not use the much more powerful Acme Threaded Knee Feed?

[@BurtonsAttic]

I do use the knee sometimes for drilling. I found that I have more control and stay on center better using the quill.

[@stevechain770]

Great restore! Could you please tell me what the black pivoting grinder/sander/? is? I've seen it used throughout the project, very cool!

[@BurtonsAttic]

Steve it is a Dewalt GP radial arm saw from the 1940's. Thanks!

[@stevechain770]

@@BurtonsAttic Thank you, I appreciate it. What a great way to use it!

[@crawler2009d]

super de belle job cool

[@marcio.roberto.torneiro4897]

Parabens !! Excelente trabalho nesta maquina nao parece ser a mesma . My name is marcio i am from brazil .

[@BurtonsAttic]

Obrigado Marcio!

[@camopirate]

at the 17:27 mark you show wires hooked to terminal Com S1 S2, for remote run/stop switches. then at the end of the video you are running in forward then reversing but pressing the buttons faster than I can keep track of the sequence. I am assuming the left button is a latching style on/off and pressing it runs in forward, pressing it again stops ? then you press the right button to reverse and press again to stop ? thanks, fwiw, I am the guy you made the MicroFeed Knob for

[@jonivan1014]

Really nice! Will the Teco will replace a rotary Frequency Drive without power loss? I was reading the specs on a different brand and it stated there would be about 1/3 power loss through that VFD...

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Jon! Yes and yes their will be some power loss, but the VFD is over rated for the motors slightly. So how much power loss is their really? I don't know but I do know that it works great and so far no issues!

[@jonivan1014]

Burton's Attic Thanks

Awesome ;)

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks man!

[@rocksolidhugo]

Just found your very, very neat work. Such neat presentation brings joy to my life. Questions: Is that a Morse vertical arbor? If so, what collets does that chuck use? Thank you

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thx Hugo, nice ride you have! The vertical spindle is R8, like a Bridgeport. The collet holder seen at 13:05 is R8 to DA180.

[@christophercarson4310]

Hi Burton, great videos and content. Just to chime-in on your rear bearing comment and why they are always smaller and subsequently fail. I am told that when you are making millions of motors per year, the motor manufacturers "skimp" a bit and install a smaller bearing on the rear to save some $$. Thus it always fails first. A bit frustrating from the consumer aspect, but does make sense. Love the content man!! Cheers,

[@jacquesrocher738]

Awesome Video like always! Could I bump all of these specs up for a Cintimill with a 5HP motor? I've read that you should overcompensate on the VFD, so get a 7.5HP rated VFD?

[@BurtonsAttic]

VFD's start getting really expensive at 5hp. You need to look at the input voltage required (single or 3ph) and the amperage rating. Also the circuit you will use to run it.

[@tommays56]

The bearing thing has a lot to due with the lack of sealing on the fan side and during the heating/cooling cycle it allows small amounts of moisture to do What moisture does best to the bearing Currently IMHP the best current lower cost motor is WEG and I buy them as a package with a Yaskswa 4X inverter and use them in a wash down environment as WEG and Yaskswa do a superior job of keeping out water

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks for the comment and information Tom!

[@henrikpersson8695]

@@BurtonsAttic The bearing on the fan side fails premature thanks to small currents that runs throught the bearing, eating its way on the surface of the outer ring. There are two types of bearings you can buy to stop this, one is with a type where the outer ring is coated with some Aluminumoxide. In the bearingname they have VL0241 or VL2071. The other one is with ceramic balls in the bearing, thay are called HC5

[@BurtonsAttic]

@@henrikpersson8695 Thanks Henrik, I will check that out!

[@alanlarkin9716]

Great series, just subscribed. Have you thought about having two speed control pots, one fot each motor, wired through the motor change over switch? That way you might not have to keep adjusting speed when switching between the motors.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Alan no need to do that. The VFD has one input for the pot to the VFD PCB which is a function of the control circuit not the power circuit. The motor change over switch is on the power output of the VFD before the motors. The VFD doesn't "know" what motor it is powering. Hope that makes sense. Thanks for commenting.

[@emerybooker6335]

Burton's Attic could I ask where you got the motor plates? I have a old hardinge I'm redoing and all though it's readable I would love to have a brand new tag when it's redone to match all the other hard work I'm doing. Also thanks for going into the vfd a bit, I mean it's still magic to me but what you said made sense at least. I am about to order one to put my original motor back in the hardinge and don't fully understand how it needs to be set up. Don't tell the other machinist but I plan to read the instructions hoping that will help me lol.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Emery, those are the original motor tags........

[@christophercullen1236]

.

[@kevinfaulkner8801]

Hi Burton, nice job on the mill and lathe. I will be getting a Rockwelll 14" lathe in the spring when my neighbor gets it dug out of his barn. Right now I am updating an INDEX 645 mill. It has a static converter on it now but I dont like it. I got a Teco on your recommendation. What value pot did you use? The F/R switches are latching or momentary? Do I deed to mount the VFD in a box? The motor on the mill is 1.5 HP. The lathe has both a 3HP 3 ph and a single ph with it I will be reinstalling the 3 ph motor and using a VFD if things go well with the mill.

[@BurtonsAttic]

5k Ohm pot. Latching switch. No you don't need to mount it in a box but you do need to keep it clear of chips and oil!

[@kevinfaulkner8801]

ok, a box then. thanks.

[@foghornleghorn3478]

I always build a back plate on my personal machine motors and design it with a big back bearings

[@BillyTpower]

liked your video.. I was under the, incorrect, assumption that I couldn't use 1 vfd to control 2 motors... lol this is a game changer. thankyou. are there any constraints for motor selection ? how similar do they have to be? also what kind of switch would be good for the 2 separate 3 phase output wires

[@BurtonsAttic]

I would say that your motors ideally would be exactly the same. BUT as you saw mine are close and not exact and so far it's been working fine. If they where to far apart in specs then that may but as simple as adjusting a few PIDs when you switch motors. If your not doing it all the time I don't see a problem with it. The switch I used to isolate the individual motors to the VFD is referred to as a Motor Change Over Switch. If I recall correctly the one I used was rated for like 660VAC and 30amps. Way more than enough! In what way where you thinking to use that idea Billy? Thanks!

[@BillyTpower]

@@BurtonsAttic My lathe has a 1hp 3phase and it's located right next to my single phase mill in my shop. so I was thinking to use the 1 vfd for both and swap out motor inn mill to a 2 hp 3ph

[@michaelidarecis]

Use my belt sander with a small piece of wood under like you had on your disk sander. It stops anomaly angles that would happen when using the metal base of a sander.

[@user-ks5ff]

Did you have the table reground on that mill? it looks perfect.

[@BurtonsAttic]

No, just elbow grease.....

[@user-ks5ff]

I actually meant as in the fact it has no dents or marks, but as you mention it, what did you use to clean it? it came up real nice

[@BurtonsAttic]

@@user-ks5ff kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJrcnpiAr66kbKc

[@jeffheld3971]

Two things; I like the change over switch. I planned to simply put a pigtail on my VFD output and unplug & plug in a different machine. Can you provide a list of part #’s? I just bought a A510-2002-C-U.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Part # for what?

[@jeffheld3971]

Burton's Attic change over switch.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Jeff search this on eBay- Latching 4 Terminals On/off 2 Position Changeover Cam Switch AC 660V 20A. Make sure you have enough terminals for your application. Also you will need to jumper it to make it work.

[@daviddaddy]

I Absolutely Love your channel so much! Ive been watching for 3 days straight as much as i can lol Your attention to detail is What makes you so enjoyable to watch! Thank you so much for sharing these wonderful Series. I think i smell a Shaper restoration or maybe a Maybe a Surface Grinder restoration? Haha Hey i can Dream cant i? Lol I was Wondering if the vfd also acts as a phase converter? Because i know you said the motors are 3 phase, are you running on single phase? Or do you have them running on 3? Thank you very much. Hope you have a Wonderful day. -David

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks David. My input is single phase 208v. Their are a lot of different drive configurations depending on application. It would take me all day to explain VFD theory of operation so here's a video for you to watch that is by ABB. I watched just a few minutes and it's a good video with good information. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6LFf6KMibCXma8

[@lanierknives]

Pardon my ignorance, I’m no machinist. I see you using the same collet for milling and for drilling with the larger bits. What kind of collet is that?

[@BurtonsAttic]

DA180

[@MySickstring]

Amazing work. You do know your stuff, despite all of the trolls rhetoric.

[@stevendoesburg6555]

Great video, Thanks! Really enjoyed the whole project. What is your opinion on grounding the rotor of VFD controlled motors? I have seen claims that using a VFD causes voltages to be induced in the rotor which will conduct to ground through the bearings if the rotor is left ungrounded, greatly reducing the their service life.

[@BurtonsAttic]

I have also read that but so far I have not experienced that issue. That may come from overdriving to motor. I don't know how you would be able to ground the rotor except though the bearings?

[@stevendoesburg6555]

Burton's Attic the solutions I've seen use some sort of slip ring or carbon brush riding on the rotor to create a lower impedance path to ground than through the bearings. In a demonstration video it was shown with a multimeter or scope that there was some variable voltage between the rotor and ground without this rotor grounding. It sounds plausible to me that even relatively small voltages could generate currents through a bearing that may lead to damage because the contact patches between the balls and the races are so small, but because they were trying to sell their product I'm not quite sure I believe them.

[@daleyoung9066]

enjoyed your videos. couple of questions, with all the work you had to do and $$$ was it worth it , would you do it again? what experience level in work like this would you suggest if someone wanted to tackle a job like this? i have a chance at a milling, lathe, resurface machines, and a drill press at an auction coming up in december in eastern nc. awesome work

[@BurtonsAttic]

Thanks Dale! I won't say that it's a rare machine but they are very hard to find. Very few have been sold on eBay. For this machine yes I would do it again. It's in between a full size mill and a bench top mill, which is what I was looking for. It's the right footprint and weights about 1000lbs. Easier to work on than say a Bridgeport from a size/weight standpoint but it's also not as robust as a full size mill. It's a great home shop size. It was not from a production shop so it had very little actual usage on it to begin with. You have to watch out because old machines may have a lot of wear, it's a gamble. Money wise I have about $500 in it to this point not counting labor. You won't find this machine in this condition for that price! Make no mistake, a video may make it look easy but it is no doubt hard work. It's like restoring a car or an engine on a small scale. I have a very well equipped shop and didn't need to purchase anything tool wise to do this. One advantage you have is my videos! You have to want to do it! Good luck with your decision! Experience is what you make of it!..........What make/model machines are you looking at? Do some research on the cost of them before the auction and know what your limit is for the price.

[@daleyoung9066]

@@BurtonsAttic thank for the info. i tried to send some pics of the mill to see what you think and what it might sell for. here is the lick to the auction www.tugwellauctionrealty.com/auction/344711/farm-equipment-auction/ please let me know what you think

[@BurtonsAttic]

Some serious hoarding going on there! Hard to tell anything about actual condition from those photos. Looks like the shop has not been used much recently. But it looks like a farm shop so possible that you may find a deal on something. You just have to go look! Since it's not an online auction you may get a deal as their are less bidders usually. Don't forget you have to move it and pay a fee. Sometimes they help with loading.

[@istvanmeissler2238]

Where did you buy the switches, buttons,. and display? They all seem to be quite good quality. Thanks. PS: Excellent series and especially this video.

[@BurtonsAttic]

Ebay, Thanks!

[@vorazechul]

The rear bearing is smaller because the forces on it resulting from a sideways force on the shaft (like from a belt pulling on the pulley) are much smaller than on the front. Having said that, most electric motors I have used have identical rear and front bearings for ease of logistics.

[@BurtonsAttic]

That makes sense and is logical, but they still wear out faster. Just large enough but not large enough to last. Thanks for your input Dimitar!