Installing a VFD and 3 Phase motor on my Well Index Mill - Part 1"

[@andrewdolinskiatcarpathian]

I adore the way you constructed the switch box. The graceful lines match the mill to perfection. Well done. 👏👏👍😀

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thank you very much! Good to hear as this was the plan.

[@richardgreen7811]

It's very refreshing to watch your developing affinity for the TIG Welder. This is"the" most rewarding welding method for me in that it allows such precision. For years I had been terrified of aluminum. Now I really enjoy repairing lawn furniture or anything else aluminum.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thank you very much! I'm not a super good welder just because I don't have a very steady hand. Nevertheless, my welds hold well and look okay. Aluminum is about the same in my opinion... just different settings and loud, ha. But i totally agree, tig is amazing!

[@howardosborne8647]

@@WinkysWorkshop Tig is also good for bronze welding,brazing and silver soldering.....very versatile and highly controllable.

[@mikeyh6104]

Those crimp ends work great on shoelaces and sweatpants waist cords. Goes through the wash just fine too.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Wow... I needed to do that the other day... very cool. Ha

[@howardosborne8647]

Another thing that works real good on lace and cord ends are the stainless steel crimp tubes intended for use with stainless steel cable lanyard kits. I've got 2 sets of work boots with them on the lace ends.

[@arthurdoner5957]

Some decent quality heat shrink tubing is pretty good for laces and the like too.

[@t.d.mich.7064]

Through your diligence and investments, you have built up an impressive home shop. It almost becomes a self feeding project, where all your work is done to improve what you have, while making nothing for any other purpose. What a nice hobby! Myself, I've done so much of that work, I'm glad to sit back in retirement and watch you do it. Good stuff!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I am a bit obsessed with the machines but I seem to stay busy with other projects as well. Sometimes I make videos but usually they are fairly boring jobs.

[@robert574]

It's hard to find stuff ready to go without spending a small fortune on it. I really miss having access to a nice shop (and the people). You need to have some challenges. Mark is one of the few who actually makes some stuff out of his shop. I'm sure we'll see more.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks @@robert574

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Those VFD are handy little devices. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Yes they are! This one is especially cool. It converts 110V to 220V 3-ph.

[@johnfry9010]

Really nice job on that box , it looks like it came with the mill !

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thats what I was going for.... I'm glad you think so!

[@jubiletabustamanteserrano2446]

YOU ARE A MAKINA I ADMIRE THE WORK YOU DO. CLEANLINESS, SLOWNESS. THE RESULT OF A GOOD WORK

[@David-hm9ic]

This is so timely for me. I recently bought an Index 645 that has two 3 phase motors on it. It's been used and abused but I'm confident will be a great addition, replacing my round column mill. Your restoration and refinish job is beautiful!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks... I love this mill. It was worth the effort

[@garymallard4699]

I got 4 - 1/2 Hp 3 Phase motors i bought cheap when i rented a shop that had 3 Phase..i was planning to use them on shop tools but I moved out of there to a acreage..niw i only have 1 Phase... i think i will try one on a drill press ( or 2 ) with VFD's... be nice for speed changes ( like u r doing )... I just bought a used Wood Bandsaw 14" that would be nice to have variable speed...🤔 they made a model that had 3 spd with manual spd changes...be alot cooler with a dial and a readout??? and 220-240 1Ph to 3Ph- 220ish ! Manuals are simple if you just read the part you need to understand....like a car repair manual...you don't bother with the stuff that isn't important to do your repair....

[@WinkysWorkshop]

So true on the manual. There is a lot I don't understand but so far I understand what I need to know.

[@angelramos-2005]

Looks good,Mark and quality work.Thank you.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks 👍

[@TheAyrCaveShop]

Well done on that control box Mark, it looks an original mill part. ATB......

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks, that is what I was hoping for.

[@thehobbymachinistnz]

Good start on the VFD installation Mark. I did the same to my drill press as changing belts all of the time got old very quickly. Like you I made a panel with e/stop, forward, reverse and speed adjusting controls. I did this before I made YT videos so I don't have the actual installation recorded, but I did make a video on what I have done. I don't know if you have seen it, but there may be some ideas that you can use?

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks 👍 I'll check out the video.

[@garymallard4699]

Looks Good!!!! 🇨🇦🤓🤙

[@WinkysWorkshop]

thanks

[@robert574]

Mark, I know we've beat this VFD horse nearly to death, but I read something today on the Fluke site. For constant output torque, there is a ratio of motor voltage / frequency. For a 220VAC motor and 60hz, that ratio is 3.67 (220/60=3.67). The voltage then drops linearly as the ratio is kept constant at 3.67 and the frequency (motor speed) is reduced. At the minimum speed 1/6 of 60hz or 10hz, (10x3.67 = 36.7V). I think you said you measured 37V at slow speed. So, the frequency x 3.67 will be the motor voltage up to full speed. It seems to match what you're seeing.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Cool, I suspected it was something like that.

[@everettthompson9941]

You're correct, worked for Borg Warner Controls back in the 1960's. We manufactured variable frequency motor controls. We always kept the volt/cycle ratio you described on our setups.

[@howardosborne8647]

Hi,Mark. A belated Happy New Year to you. Have you considered giving powder coating a go for your fabricated metal parts? I have a powder coat gun kit similar to the Eastwood offering but not got around to trying it out just yet. On the VFD front I am expecting the arrival of a 2hp 3 phase motor and 1.5kw VFD to convert my lathe from the old single phase motor it has been running on for years....big improvements in the smoothness of drive and loads more spindle control with the VFD. Seems I have a bit of catching up to do with your last 3 videos.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

This is a cheap VFD but it seems to do well, we will see. So far the only thing i have noticed is a whine at some RPMs. From what I understand this caused by a low carrier frequency. I can change mine but it is limited.

[@terrycannon570]

Mark I just recently installed a 2 hp 3 phase motor on my Clausing 100 lathe and I love it. I went ahead and wired the remote potentiometer and remote FWD -REV to a box within reach on the lathe. I also have a Bridgeport clone mill that has 3 hp 3 phase motor on it. I also put a VFD on it and the remote pot and switch. It is a belt drive J Head style and is quite as a mouse and smooth as silk. It took me a while to learn how to program the VFD's but now the time spent was certainly worth it to me. My Precision Mathews 833T mill is 220 single phase Gear head mill and very noisy. Partly because of the gears and single phase motors just make more noise. Great video. As Harold always says KO-KO BTW is that a VEVOR VFD ?

[@WinkysWorkshop]

The VFD is from amazon, Link in description. The cool aspect of this VFD is that it also converts 110v to 220v 3ph. Vevor sells the same VFD in a 220 version. Its a cheap VFD. It has a lower carrier frequency than some which make the motor whine at some RPMs. I can live with that... its easy to ovoid the specific RPM.

[@peterwieder5901]

Saubere Arbeit 👍🇩🇪

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks!

[@sailor4life784]

Hello, Really appreciate your Videos my friend, and I learn a lot from them. Now...... If you change the factory Settings for the VFD ( especially the Torque values, to more torque in the low RPM areas) it is a bit dangerous, cause the cooling depends on the rpm's, and with increased torque and therefore the higher effect delivered, the cooling is not enough. I had that problem on one of my own projects and had to mount another constant blower on the end of the electric motor, securing a decent cooling while running low Rpm's on my mashine ....... But I am pretty sure you have had your thoughts on thist little dilemma.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

VFDs are fairly new to me but I've learned a few things. The motor I used was 1130 RPM and VFD rated. The lower RPM rating allows me to maintain torque on the low end and I run the motor at a higher frequency to get 2200 RPM. There is also some torque loss at higher speeds but the torque isn't needed on small end mills. I need to move a belt at super low speeds but I've never needed to yet. I never turned on any torque compensation. I dont remember seeing it but it might be there.

[@Blackcountrysteam]

When setting up a VFD it's important to set the motor current

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Please explain. What is the setting called?

[@ronniehall1520]

Nice

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks

[@bobuk5722]

Hi folks, there's another advantage to going three phase. Single phase motors are inherently a little bit jerky. The strength of the electrical field generated by the windings varies over a complete voltage cycle. This does not happen with three phase motors driven off a true sine wave supply - the three phases always sum to the same field strength. Now, where a VFD is useful and it has a 'variable vector' function that statement might not be 'fully' accurate, such maths is well beyond me! Maybe someone more knowledgeable could comment.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

It will be interesting if I notice a difference. For sure the variable speed will be a huge plus.

[@michaelwalker1865]

Winky could you provide a link to the crimpers and terminals that you are using? The wires get real tight when wiring up a VFD. Great video as always!!!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Excellent idea! amzn.to/3SayJLc

[@robert574]

I wanted to ask about the control panel, since I went thru the same thing. Possible controls: 1. Toggle switch for 110VAC in 2. Green light because they are cool 110VAC or use lighted rocker for #1 to save space. 3. Tach / counter 4. Speed pot 5. Rotary switch Rev / Off / Fwd 6. Option - some vfd's have a brake resistor output so an emergency stop might be possible. They might show it in the book, but you need to see if it has the terminals. You also have the option of removing the remote pad and extending it to the front panel. I ordered a cable for mine, but didn't end up using it. They come in all lengths and they're cheap. I wish you were close; I would dump a pile of these in your hands. I overbought everything and have lots of spares. Any thoughts on your layout? I also have a LOT of pulleys if you're still thinking.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I bought new switches and pot and then realize I bought two of each when I installed the VFD on the Hardinge lathe. I also bought and indicator light which I'll install on the switch box I made. It will light up when the VFD is turned on. I'll put a main power switch on the box that holds the VFD. I'll probably by a tach like I but on my lathe. It has a magnet and prox. I think it does have the brake option but stops fast enough with the deceleration setting. I think I have it set at 150 cycles per second. I may lower that a bit.

[@robert574]

The vfd's are great aren't they? I just watched your other vfd installation on the lathe. (Was there motor noise?) You found a counter with 110V input voltage. Most are lower voltage and need a small supply. It looked perfect to me. For my bandsaw, the only other control I was going to use was an emergency stop which would engage the braking resistor, then I found out my unit didn't have the option. I did install forward and reverse jog push buttons to clear the blade. @@WinkysWorkshop​

[@robert574]

Did you get the email I sent with the heading "Motors"? I linked the items to the pictures so everything is safe to click on. @@WinkysWorkshop​

[@robert574]

It seems like there should be a green light next to the power on switch on the back box so you get a response flipping it. Then counter will be lit up with a zero until you turn the rotary switch. (They make rotary switches that light up too). No doubt about it, lights are cool everywhere if there's room. I like it.@@WinkysWorkshop

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@robert574 I agree, the 110v speed display is great

[@a-k-jun-1]

Myself personally, I would have opted to make a new shaft for the motor that was longer. But that's just me.😂

[@WinkysWorkshop]

How?

[@a-k-jun-1]

@@WinkysWorkshop pull the armature out and the shaft presses into it. Of you have an arbor press or hydraulic press, it will push right out. Then use your lathe to make whatever length or size shaft you need. Only limited by the bore of the bearings as to maximum size. If you do this get a piece of pipe larger than the shaft and machine a bushing that is about 1mm larger than the shaft and fit it to the pipe. This is because some motors have laminated rotor cores and this will prevent them from separating. Over here in the USA this is very common to reshaft an armature after bearing failure.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@a-k-jun-1 interesting. It sounds doable Maybe I'll try it o a dead motor first.

[@grendel1960a]

could you not have made a new pulley with a recessed mounting - ie make an extended pulley that mounts on the motor shaft, but has the pulley section offset outwards?

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I could step the inner bore of the pulley and remove the spacers. Not a bad idea although the pulley is not solid. It's hollow on the bottom (I think). I could actually just makes 4 inch sleeve to fit over the motor shaft and bore the pulley to fit the OD. In a way I don't want to modify the pulley but then again, I could just sleeve the pulley if I change to a different motor in the future. You got me thinking now.

[@PeterHatch-mx7zc]

Wheres the best to buy motor and VFD please

[@WinkysWorkshop]

The link is in the description but here it is. I'm using it on two machines and so far its worked fantastic. The fact that it converts 110V to 220 is a huge plus for less than 1.5 HP amzn.to/3Yc5EU4

[@kregerstainer]

Is that vfd input is 220v single phase and output 380v 3 phase?

[@WinkysWorkshop]

No, 110V Single to 220v 3-phase.

[@kregerstainer]

@@WinkysWorkshop thanks for your feedback

[@robert574]

In the lowest motor position (before all the work) how much did you think of the motor shaft that the pulley could fit on? (hmmm... not clear maybe)

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I had to think about that for a minute... 1/2"

[@robert574]

Not much to get a hold of. I wondered about some sort of an extended hub on the pulley. How about buying a threaded arbor for a grinding wheel (would have the keyed bore) and then bore a pulley (or buy one that fits) to slide over the outside and weld it where you want it. Maybe that's what you're thinking of. @@WinkysWorkshop​

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@robert574 The threaded arbor is basically the same as the shaft extender I will make. The part that slips over the motor shaft has to be a little longer to hold the smaller diameter shaft on the end. Unless I shorten the motor shaft I'll need to elevate the motor

[@robert574]

Just thinking about that keyway inside the bore. @@WinkysWorkshop

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@robert574 There are a few weird things here, the motor shaft is 3/4 with a 1/4" key and the pulley in the mill is 3/4 with a 3/16 key. It wont be hard to make. If my have a 1/4" end mill long enough I'll waste art of the steel away with the mill.

[@alfredrichter6236]

When you turn the rpm down, don‘t you loose power from your motor?

[@65cj55]

You can a little, i found it's better to go up in motor size a little when doing this conversion.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

To some degree but not bad. the VFD compensates for this to a point. The biggest problem at low speeds is heat buildup. The motor i am using is 1120 RPM but I'll run it at 1900. This isn't an issue but you do lose torque. The thing is, you seldom need torque with a small end mill. By running the motor faster you can run the belts in a position that you will not need to slow down as much. Plus (in my case) the lower RPM motor can run much slower without overheating.

[@garymallard4699]

Are you using Speaker wire to test that motor?? 🇨🇦🤓🤙

[@doingstufforatleasttrying4843]

I was just thinking the same thing. It looks like 22awg 🤣🤣🤣 I would use at least 10 awg . This is 220volts. Guess he will start to smell a plastic burn soon…🤣🤣🤣 Glad someone saw it first…

[@garymallard4699]

@@doingstufforatleasttrying4843 i think it is heavier than 22.. maybe 18 or 16?? ok for a simple test but even 14 solid Elec wire would be a better choice... depends on the amperage at 3 PH ... worst it would do is melt the plastic..then blow the breaker as they touch...and make a good video !! Content matters...😤

[@garymallard4699]

@@doingstufforatleasttrying4843 it would use less amperage at 220+ and split between 3 wires.... he did say he wasn't an Expert...😂

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Ha... yeah, 16G. I'll use 14 when I install it.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Yeah, I looked it up. It needs to be 14 but the speaker wire was 16... good for a test.

[@cyclebuster]

when i run my vevor VFD i cannot play my radio, it blocks that frequency and puts out a terrible noise

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Mine might do the same, I haven't tried this yet

[@robert574]

Hey Mark, any chance we could get you to put a volt meter across two of the 220V 3ph terminals while the motor's running? (I got my meter out, but couldn't reach the terminals)

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I suppose could... are you wanting to verify that its outputting 220?

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Okay... I took a voltage reading. at full speed the voltage was 225V across any pair. At 30 hz it was 47 volts.

[@robert574]

It would be really interesting if you stuck a volt meter with a needle on the side there somewhere to watch under load. A tach would be useful also to see how it performs. You'll draw a crowd with that one. It's mainly about how well the voltage doubler works. The motor speed will be frequency driven, but the torque may not be there if the voltage is low. @@WinkysWorkshop

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@robert574 From what I understand it's supposed to have some torque compensation at lower speeds. It kind of surprised me that the voltage was lower at lower speeds. I'm using this same motor VFD combination on my Hardinge lathe and it works very well. With that being said the Hardinge would work well with a 1/4 HP motor. I think it will work find on the mill but we will soon see.

[@robert574]

I ordered (3) different transformers (separately) on ebay to convert 110 to 220V for a vfd. I gave shipping and packing instructions for all three and all of them ignored them and just dropped it into a box with some wadded paper or bubble wrap. It was like shipping a heavy cannon ball and all of them were destroyed when they arrived with the coils smashed and broken, terminals broken off, not even remotely fixable. On the fourth one, they wrapped it, taped it, wrapped it and taped it again over and over. Not my instructions and the terminals were broken, but fixable with some epoxy and fiberglass. I did get a refund on the first three and the seller paid for the repair on the last one. If you ever order a heavy transformer, make them bolt it to a piece of plywood that fits the box first. I see one of those 3000 VA voltage converter transformers at the pawn shop every now and then for $30-40. Those are perfect and you only need one to power all your stuff (one at a time).