Modifying a Shaper Tool for Internal Work pt 2

Finishing off the Internal Cutting Bar and making the cuts to square out the hole. Some Horizontal Milling, plenty of shaper work and some insights into what I learned from the operation for next time. Introduction to the next project Involute Gear Cutting on the Shaper
JBfrom OZ video • Involute Gear Cutting ...

[@TheStuartYork]

Steve Summers, recent detailed video on the clapper box, highlighted the importance of a good high tolerance fit for the minimising of lateral tool movement. Your video reinforces this. Interesting and food for thought. Thanks Stuart

[@lookcreations]

im still surprised I never felt it when I assessed the box assembly on building it back up - it 'felt' fine. Only when I pull the tool around does it move & when under heavy cuts. Glad I found it though as now it should be fairly straight forward to resolve. One to check on your shaper. All the best Mat

[@TheStuartYork]

lookcreations My shaper? You mean the three castings and a couple of hundred components, lying all over my shed, workshop, garage and greenhouse? De-greaser and paint stripper in every orifice! You were spot on with your comments about gunk. It's rubbish! (I remember my dad using it back in the day and he swore by it, maybe it's been detoxicifified and improved!). My new motor and clever electronics arrived today, I'm too knacker and covered with crud to touch the box. Did you see the 10M That's just popped up on ebay? Looks very nice, and it has the rare factory vertical feed. Stuart

[@lookcreations]

You do know there is a chap making & supplying the vertical feed mod parts ? There is a video on m channel (on his behalf). Im not sure of his prices - but doubt they would be excessive. take a look. Mat

[@TheStuartYork]

lookcreations Yes, I've spoken to Pete in Ireland. His V. Feed looks lovely, unfortunately its €450:00 plus shipping. I'm going to have a set of drawings from him for €60:00 when I get the paint stripper out of my life! Best

[@mrmyford]

nice work with the shaper mat look forward to the next video as always regards...keith

[@FredFred-wy9jw]

Your. Comments on cutting on the back stroke are spot on ....there is a high risk of braking the ram casting ... when shapers were common there where lots of them in the scrapyards with broken rams ... don’t listen to the guys who recommend cutting on the back stroke ... do watch for their sale of shaper tooling when there shaper heads for the scrapyard!

[@JBFromOZ]

The taper fit jam looks good!

[@lookcreations]

surprised myself actually :-)

[@mohamedayaan7802]

Dunno if you guys cares but if you're stoned like me during the covid times you can stream pretty much all the new series on instaflixxer. Have been streaming with my girlfriend these days =)

[@keaganduncan2559]

@Mohamed Ayaan yup, I've been watching on InstaFlixxer for years myself :D

[@shepardprinceton3110]

@Mohamed Ayaan Yea, I've been using InstaFlixxer for months myself :D

[@grahamsengineering.2532]

I have a 22" Strigon Shaper and in the book it shows the internal bar mounted direct in the clapper with a thin lock/esna nut on the outside. For a 16 mm bar max length of 100 mm. 32 mm bar max length of 150 mm. Also put a one and a half degree taper on the shaft like a snout boring bar. The taper reduces the bar deflection. Hope this helps.

[@lookcreations]

Graham O'Keeffe his Graham, thanks for the comments, I like the idea of the bar taper. With the benefit if the experience, there are a few things I am going to modify with the bar. By the looks of the comments below I think a few folk found this duscussion useful. All the best. Mat

[@grahamsengineering.2532]

Hey Mat your welcome. We are all here to help each other. If you want some pictures from the Strigon book feel free to email me at [e-mail] The book on the Strigon ( they were made in Hungary, mine is a 1967 model in beautiful condition for it's age) show some wonderful attachments for it including a driven indexing head for producing round and semi round parts.

[@lookcreations]

email sent Graham - always good to see pictures of extra kit to help create ideas.

[@grahamsengineering.2532]

Hey Mat. I didn't get your email, am having issues with internet. Please send a message via the contact page on my website at www.grahamsengineering.com.au and I'll send you the info.

[@craigtate5930]

VFD works out well on this machine. I often wish I could slow my shaper down

[@JBFromOZ]

Involute Gear Cutting you say? On a shaper you say? Very Cool i say !! happy to lasercut some index discs for you if you want mate!

[@lookcreations]

Well if I get fed up with drilling index holes I may send you a dfx file of the plates :-) Hope the link pulls in some views for you Marcus. Cheers mate. Mat

[@janvanruth3485]

stefan gotteswinter made a clapper that holds the cutter directly and locks to the box i have seen several other solutions but his looks the best as to deflection

[@lookcreations]

I have not seen a bad job from anything Stefan has made. He has a reverse clapper box which works very well. I’m happy that my method works and provides some adjustments to the tool lift and does not place further strain on the clapper housing.

[@paulwomack5866]

@@lookcreations Stefan's idea seems to replace the clapper box completely, reducing overhang, and sidestepping the issue of locking the clapper. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGeTnXuLeZ2IiZo

[@lookcreations]

The Yahoo Shaper group has or is in the process of moving over to Groups IO - here is the link groups.io/g/Metal-Shapers-and-Planers/topics. The members have proven a tremendous source of knowledge and I highly recommend joining the group.

[@pgs8597]

G'day Mat, nice couple of mill clips mate. On reverse stroke cutting wouldn't the clapper box bolts take the load rather than the spigot, even so I wouldn't like to stress the cast iron threads. Good video, Peter

[@lookcreations]

HI Peter - thanks for watching - I think it would be a close call between the fixings v's the spigot as to which failed first on a crunch. Ive seen some shapers where the forward portion of the head is 'clamped' with fixings as well as the spiggot providing a rotation point. I think those type of design would be far more rigid and stronger than the way mine is put together. All the best Mat

[@markl2761]

If you took the clapper box off you could make the bar shorter an d have less deflection

[@lookcreations]

That is true for sure - however, the problem cause is excessive wear on the clapper pin & clapper. My own dumb fault as I never checked when i rebuilt the front end too eager to get on with making chips. There should be a new vid' up later this week where I go through it. thanks for stopping by and commenting. All the best Mat

[@markl2761]

I just subbed so I will watch your series . I have not used a shaper yet but I am working on a trade for one, so I am watching many shaper videos. Always good info is picked up from all the different you tubers. Thanks

[@DavidHalfpenny]

I'm happy to give you a Like for a useful video, but I do hate Ads that overlay the video!

[@lookcreations]

I will re-check the settings if there are any adds with mine they should be before and after not overlays or inserts - its part of the reason my vids' do not show up too well on YT searches or recomended - that and the low view counts. Thanks for watching David. All the best Mat

[@davedigs]

good job Matt does laser cutting produce a hard surface round the edge of the discs I've had problems with plasma cut ones where the cut was started it destroyed hss tools can't wait to see the set up for the gear cutting

[@lookcreations]

Hi David - Ive only done a few laser cut plates in the past and yes you do get a hard edge a few 0.001" - but its pretty easy to cut away with a brazed carbide bit or get under with a HSS tool - plasma on the other hand I found left a much deeper hard area / section and as it is less accurate (from what Ive seen) requires much more work to get passed it. All the disks are a minimum of 0.5" oversize on diameter to allow for this. That being said - I hadn't figured on them being right on the limit of my 4 jaw chuck - wish I had an 8" chuck and larger lathe to go with it ;-) All the best Mat

[@davedigs]

you could turn them on a mandrel or pressure plate them I've had success with both methods on my old boxford

[@lookcreations]

between centres will be the final OD sizing for sure. quite a bit of work to do first though.

[@Panzax1]

Just wondering if you could mount the internal cutting bar directly to the ram. To avoid the flex in the clapper mechanism altogether. On edit I see you thought of that already :)

[@lookcreations]

Panzax The thought had occurred, it's clear that anything that isn't directly up or down creates a twice or rather side force. This causes any clearance in the slides to be taken up. So the smart money would be to cut up or down, the forces more appropriate for the slides. Then rotate the part to present the dace to be cut horizontal. As I say the exercise was very educational 😃

[@restlesswave]

i have all my big boring bars directly into the ram.

[@lookcreations]

I think it may be the way to go at a later date. My concern is the continual use of the mounting hole for the clapper - its 5/8 BSW in cast Iron. So maybe I could add a further fixing hole. Thanks for stopping by and commenting. All the best Mat

[@janvanruth3485]

why the 135/127 combination? i have had the 100/127 combination going from imperial to metric surely the other way around would be the same combination?

[@lookcreations]

To answer that properly requires more maths than I can type. A quick google search should give you the answer 👍

[@janvanruth3485]

@@lookcreations it is just because i owned a southbend 9a, and that seems to be the equivalent of the boxford. i could cut most metric threads with the 100/127 combination, using the norton box. the gears would not accomodate the lid of the geartrain to be closed as they were to big. the same might be the case with the boxford. a 47/37 combination will fit into the geartrain compartment and will give a ratio of 1.27027027. as a plus there would be a lot less teeth to cut.

[@lookcreations]

There is some really useful gear cutting gear charts in the files section of the Yahoo Boxford group. With plenty of combinations of alternative gears. If I recall the 135/127 combo gear was the Boxford specified additional for metric lead screw machines to make full use of the Norton box. I’ve cut a few imperial threads which are near spec but anything requiring accurate tpi isn’t great eg a top slide lead screw for my shaper

[@janvanruth3485]

@@lookcreations so there must be a difference between the sb9a and the boxford never to old to learn

[@lookcreations]

@@janvanruth3485- that could may well be true - Ive never seen a SB only the Boxfords. Mine is the later AUDIII built early 1970's as best I can determine. I know the rear drive versions (earlier) had a huge array of change gears and they use the 100/127 combination gear set or as you say the other smaller gears to achieve metric sizes on an imperial machine.