Monetization will ruin the internet (again)

[@Rosencreutzzz]

Also! I encourage any content creators to share their stories in the comments. I think having these stories out there is a great way to further show the good and bad of getting into content creation, (not just youtube) (Preferably as its own comment tbh, I don't get notified about replies at all)

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

When you started talking about thumbnails, it reminded me of Stimpee. He started using edited gay pron images on his videos pretending to be scenes of the games he is playing and it is hilarious.

[@Dave-hp4vh]

I reached for my phone eyeing the next scene break lmao. Almost got me, truly epic

[@daveswietlik6291]

I'm wearing a thug chain rn

[@asdfghyter]

the fact that neither creators nor consumers have any control over the platform they use is so horrible! like, “no i am not interested in shorts.” “well tough luck, it’s gonna be constantly pushed in your face regardless.” ads are just the tip of the iceberg of constant manipulation we are exposed to that are mostly out of our control.

[@Igorooooleynikov]

Line goes up video is full of lies and fact bending. I understand general vibe, but why lie. There are more legit criticisms. I guess he was too lazy to do proper research or factually right vids( like uniquesaurus video on crypto is factually right and it is 7 hours long) don't get many views. Also if he was truthful his breadtube audience would kill him.

[@andrewsad1]

"Speaking of building your own website..." This interaction drew an emotion out of me that I didn't even know I felt. I was reaching into my pocket to skip the ad as you were saying it I imagine this is what a trust fall feels like when people actually catch you

[@wardedthorn6523]

Cryptobros trying to decentralize "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit" has to be one of the funniest things I've heard about in a while

[@RedSntDK]

While sucking centralized microblogging service dingdong

[@tomaszkarwik6357]

To be fair it would have been a good idea back when Wikimedia wanted to put ads on the site. But that was '08 not '17

[@tomaszkarwik6357]

To be fair it would have been a good idea back when Wikimedia wanted to put ads on the site. But that was '08 not '17

[@ringsystemmusic]

@@tomaszkarwik6357double post my dude

[@AM-is1jh]

wikipedia is unilaterally controlled by the cia and has loads of state disinfo on it

[@VictorMenace]

That squarespace fake out was vile I love it

[@Rosencreutzzz]

what's squarespace?

[@hobojesus6288]

genuine jump scare

[@Avybavywavy]

​@@Rosencreutzzz html and css but worse.

[@Izomak12]

it's wix @@Rosencreutzzz

[@BoeBins]

I'm so glad that KZbin showed me this comment at the very top and spoiled the fake out for me.

[@olivierbajet8851]

"The goals were always reaching numbers, not people" thats hard.

[@doofmoney3954]

How do you get those numbers? Isn’t it by helping people?

[@RedSpicyKiwi]

When people become numbers "help" becomes disingenuous to the point of skewing the content. Everything gets closer to clickbait and filling time for ads.

[@sebas8225]

@@RedSpicyKiwi At this is why I use Blocktube

[@pinekel8987]

​@@doofmoney3954Not unless you can predict you'll be helped by something

[@obtusemooose]

@@doofmoney3954 its not about actual help, its about selling the illusion of help.

[@SheaViolin]

Thank you for shoehorning a callout to my channel into the small youtube space! I'm just trying to make the world a little more beautiful with music, but it sure is hard to get noticed.

[@purple-flowers]

Hey!! I am a mod and friend of the harpist KZbinr Emily Hopkins. I checked out ur channel (and subbed of course), and Emily's community is basically your target demographic lmao. I shouted you out on her discord, and I highly encourage u to join it yourself to post ur latest videos!!!

[@Cibershadow2]

Loved your Mario Kart 64 Rainbow Road violin cover! It was genuinely one of the freshest takes I've seen on it, glad you got mentioned here

[@SheaViolin]

@@Cibershadow2 aww thank you so much! I really loved that one, and I entered it into the game remix awards contest this year since I think it's some of my best work. I'm hoping it gets nominated so that more people see it :)

[@SheaViolin]

I think more people have commented that they discovered my channel from this video than almost any other source over the past year. Thank you so much!!

[@apoq3793]

Early KZbin was just people RE: RE: RE: debating each other on webcams.

[@capnmnemo]

Now it's "reactions".

[@kamikazemelon787]

“sup bitches, sup BEETCHES. CHAD warden here”

[@sailormars336]

I told my nail tech I painted and did cosplay and his first response was “do you sell it? Might as well make money if you’re gonna do it” and that’s such an ick. I can’t do anything creative just because??? I can’t just enjoy a hobby??

[@calinguga]

for me as a european, that sentiment was very apparent when i started engaging with american media and people. it's so often "time equals money", and any time spent on building a thing or a skill (even if it may be relaxing) is metered in day job hourly wage. but i discovered i started incorporating that line of thinking into my own life in the last few years, as i've been gathering (financial) responsibilities. i'm a huge proponent of the right to repair, and the need to learn how stuff works, but i've slowly started throwing stuff away instead of fixing it, because i can't justify spending a (formerly fun) night on something i can order for 10 dollars, when i'm already done with "working" for the day. and i really don't like it.

[@jonathanhoward1499]

I'm not gonnawork. So I get paidhaving fun

[@The-future-is-in-the-past]

Get your money up, not your funny up.

[@CatherineKimport]

"They make economists look like what economists think they are" just might be the most epic burn I have ever heard

[@self_improvement_d]

Yep. I casually wrote on Medium for a while (just 1 or 2 articles a month). Paid the $5/month fee for like a year, and that was also the amount I'd generally earn. It was just a group of 1000s of people all writing articles on productivity, passing around the membership fee between each other, with a few people at the top earning good money.

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

So basically a writing MLM...?

[@self_improvement_d]

@@ChristopherSadlowski Yeah. But I do have to say, improving my writing skills has been very valuable, so in the end I'm still happy I did it.

[@HerronRed]

I had a realization, somewhere between a year-and-a-half to two years ago that my favorite 'genre' among new media is 'Nerds talking about their Nerd shit on KZbin' Usually this is video games, but ultimately it seems I just enjoy someone hearing someone well spoken, talk thoughtfully and thoroughly about topics. A style preference for long-form sort of sprouts naturally out of that. Discovering your channel was a godsend. Easily competing among my top three favorite KZbin channels. For whatever it's worth, I am here for the broad content range. Also, listening to that whole LUNYR section felt like gradually succumbing to a fever dream

[@kacidy]

Thanks to this comment I just had the realization that my favorite 'genre' among new media being the same as yours is rooted in my using youtube to fill the void left in my life where I would have conversations with my friends not unlike these video essays in terms of thoughtfulness and sincerity. I don't have friends anymore. The worst part is, I am not sure if I should blame the ever increasing atomization and accompanying loneliness of the modern social media era, or if there is just something about me that is insufferable. My life wasn't always like this. But I've changed; the world has changed. Which should bear the brunt of blame? I try to change myself for the better. I try to find like-minded people. The era of fungible friends feels like a race to the bottom, a global pandemic of social ostracism and abandonment.

[@catriona_drummond]

@@kacidy There are always like-minded people on the internet. It is a tribe-generator.

[@katrijndekeersmaecker1904]

That sounds like my genre too! It explains why I, as a non-gamer, love Jacob Geller's videos. Other favourites are Adam Ragusea and Atomic Shrimp.

[@alexandriatempest]

Monetization and the need for productivity is the greatest creative sink I have. If I get caught on that it ruins any venture for me.

[@daveswietlik6291]

I need to monetize my comments so I can buy a thug chain

[@mooreanonumbers]

A few weeks ago I wanted to see if someone somewhere reviews KZbin videos in a text form - like it's been done for TV, books, theater, etc for ages - but I couldn't find anything, and I realised that Google wouldn't be able to tell me because anything related to KZbin is SEO'd to hell. As a viewer it's really creepy how hard it is to find what goes on on those sites outside of the small manufactured silos they make for us. But hey, as long as it keeps us hooked on the recommendations tab, it's all good, right?

[@sp123]

you have to use a smaller search engine like Yandex to find results with less SEO optimizaiton.

[@PareliusC]

I miss the earlyish day of the internet when nothing was pay walled

[@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233]

Also the competence check before you could enter

[@vlc-cosplayer]

I saw a website that rips paywalled content complain about a payment processor, because the latter changed their policies and wouldn't allow edgy art anymore. My brother in Christ, you're giving away paywalled stuff for free, and you're complaining that companies are forcing artists to do the same? I mean, I get that if artists can't make money, they have no incentive to make art, and so there's nothing for them to rip and reupload, but... shouldn't you be celebrating the de-commercialization of art?

[@SoVidushi]

"Practical to a point of misery, mathematical to a point of inhumanity" is such a good way to describe a lot of this. Thank you.

[@Syt1976]

Thanks for this video essay. A few years ago I dabbled with Twitch streaming for a while (about 2 years from 2017-2019). I set out to do it just for fun, streaming and commenting on games I wanted to play, and if people wanted to watch - hey, cool. I gained some regular viewers who liked my chill streams, and people complimented me on my voice (which I had never perceived as an asset), so things were nice at first, but ... It's scary how you can fall into the trap of monetization and numbers, though. When I qualified quite quickly for becoming an affiliate (the lowest rung where people can subscribe to your channel) I originally didn't want to do it, but then regulars said it would be fun to have some unique emojis for the channel, so eventually I went for it. However, I noticed I was gradually changing my content/channel. Originally, I just wanted to play games and chat. But then I started creating game specific overlays (mostly because I liked doing it, but also because I thought it might make me more "unique"). Streamers I liked and followed showed up in chat, and me in theirs, we'd host each other, and promote each other. At that point I was thinking, "How much of it is genuine, and how much of it is people in the bottom rungs of Twitch just desperately networking to boost their numbers" - and I didn't exclude myself from that suspicion. And also my selection of games was affected. Should I play what I feel like (chances are it's something turn-based with a hex map about a battle 99% of Twitch viewers hadn't heard of), or should I go back to that retro game I stopped enjoying 30 hours ago but which draws close to 100 viewers? What about the big new game that comes out next week? I want to play it, but all eyeballs will be on the "big" streamers, so I guess I should wait? I really feel like playing an action or racing game now, but people came here for strategy games and/or RPGs. Etc. In the end I just pulled the plug. I had a good time at first, but the more it felt like a job (watching numbers, figuring out what to stream, creating a "design" for the channel, networking on Twitch, Twitter etc.) the less I enjoyed doing it; and to be honest I don't feel any pull to return. In fact, videos like yours are a good reminder of why this just isn't "for me". :D

[@Rosencreutzzz]

Yeah there's a lot of weird ways they incentivize stuff and even gameify it with like "achevement" lingo and odd congratulations and progress meters and it stats to feel really hollow or even insidious at some point. KZbin has a now infamous thing where it tells you how good your last video did out of the last ten and it at best makes you feel decent and at worst and most often, just berates you implicitly. I don't know that my vibe changed much with monetization, but I do feel aware that this is a job now. I appreciate hearing stories like these. (If anyone has one, feel free to comment it, ideally as its own comment so I get notified)

[@Lorendrawn]

Lobosjr is the greatest example of pure streamer done straight

[@3osufdh4rfg]

I've been considering starting a KZbin channel about electronics and programming projects and this post sum up a lot of the thoughts that has stopped me from starting. The main other reasons being that I probably wouldn't post often enough to please the algorithm so I'd probably not get more than a few viewers and if that's the expectation then is it really worth the effort of making the videos instead of just doing the projects on their own...

[@catriona_drummond]

@@3osufdh4rfg I have had similiar feelings. many things rubbed me the wrong way. I felt youtube is sort of an "achiever" culture. Achieve threshold, achieve goals, grow grow grow. Given my personal history, a very offputting thought. I am still planning to make some funny or maybe boring videos about tinkering around with 80's and 90's computer hardware. Thing is though. I know a few good examples of people who didn't loose their footing. Making videos or streaming no matter if successful or not. They have a bunch of friends or a community and it's strictly a hobby whether it makes money or not. Their only recommendation is "do what you like". They're all way beyond 40 and many of them have a bunch of friends who watch their stuff and they are happy even if it's 9 views because they made it for those 9 guys in the first place. And yes, some of them tens of thousands of views per video too, but they don't seem to care I feel that is a good mindset to stick to.

[@AliceLoverdrive]

I myself do private discord streams for my friends, and it's a lot of fun Can't imagine moving on to a public platform like twitch, that does not sound like a good time

[@crackshottomothy]

I'm usually someone who doesn't do anything more than lurk, but this video just hit me really hard and your channel has just been one of my favorites despite how relatively young it is. I came for the map games, but I can't help but love the variety. I'm honestly kind of jealous of how you manage to have so many fascinating takes on so many radically different things. I think there's a lot that can be said about the tension between creating for oneself and creating for others, and how monetization just makes that dichotomy worse. As someone who is in the midst of dipping my toes into making video essays, there's a fear of trying to get everything done right from the start, especially as amateurism is looked down upon with the increase in expected quality. (That Embler section was genius, btw) The process is made worse as commodification comes into play, where there's an incentive to improve out of marketability and "making it," rather than just wanting to improve one's own craft. Or maybe I'm just projecting a lot here, who knows. Either way, there is something horrifying about how all of our online spaces are owned by corporations intent on socially engineering their way to profitability, all at the benefit of basically nobody else. I remember seeing some post a while back about how internet spaces are being paradoxically made bad for both adults and children, keeping everything at this awkward PG-13 type level which leaves a lot of things out. I'd say that the commons are being fenced off with every day, but judging from Pandora's Vox it was never really there to begin with.

[@snowyetie8799]

Fellow lurker ayyyy

[@spacefacecadet]

I reflexively lunged for my phone when you did the ad fakeout 😂

[@chonchjohnch]

As an aside, Wikipedia does have issues with censorship. It’s not top down or even orchestrated, but if you look at the talk pages of articles you quickly get a grasp for the rogues gallery of power mods they have. There’s one in particular I won’t name who even has censored content on math articles.

[@chonchjohnch]

It’s bad enough that I don’t even recommend Wikipedia as a source aggregator anymore for stem. I tend to suggest people actually seek out primary sources now, which maybe is for the best. Libgen is genuinely a superior alternative to Wikipedia

[@Bipolar.Baddie]

It's also important to see how Wikipedia is extremely biased towards a Western, capitalist, and liberal worldview but in a very subtle way to the uninformed reader. For example, Radio Free Asia, a CIA-founded propaganda outlet, is considered to be a reliable source, but the state-run media of China isn't. Both of those sources exist to further politcal goals and shouldn't be seen as reliable, but RFA's pro-Western bias means that it's allowed to be cited by people who already hold said bias.

[@vurpo7080]

I've just recently seen a certain topic where the Swedish version of the wikipedia article was a lot more lenient towards an act of neocolonialism committed by Sweden than the English article was. It was nearly to the point of dishonesty on the Swedish page, while the English one said things a lot more clearly.

[@malegria9641]

@@Bipolar.Baddiesorry buddy but I’ll need a source for that

[@vazzaroth]

You know what I look for when I'm trying to find objective, vetted information in a unified and understandable voice and perspective? Decentralization.

[@dreaziemobbins]

Hideo Kojima didn't predict memes in a video gamer. Meme comes from "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins written in the seventies. Come on, gamers, Kojima didn't do EVERYTHING

[@prrplex5594]

Yeah, that was the only part of the video that made me pause for a second, but I think he was conveying a specific way the memes would be used for thumbnails. If gamers want to give him full credit that's their ignorance I guess. Which leads me to another observation, people tend to centralize their information from a small pool of sources. So, their world views are often influenced by varying degrees of quality points of view. Branching outside the algorithm takes effort. Btw, I found this video by googling a question about the culture of monetization, KZbin never showed it to me.

[@TheSutanian]

There was no Richard Dawkins. There will be no Brit perpetuation any longer. Kojima coined the term ‘meme’. Cry moar kid.

[@dreaziemobbins]

@@TheSutanian ok boomer

[@Fixti0n]

Funny thing, it wasnt Richard Dawkins who even predicted memes, memes is just a short hand of Mnometic Messages, and those arent coined, they are ideas, and the idea of an idea cannot be coined. Memes have been traced back as far as written languages, sure modern memes are a beast of their own, but memes back in the 70's were so as well, and memes back in the 40's, 20's, 1800's, 1600's and so on and so on. You can even see the difference of memes from the 2010's to now. Memes are just Mnometic Messages, not that special, yet such a uniqe and special thing to society.

[@dreaziemobbins]

oh it's a message that you can't make and give to someone else. Sounds like a real thing

[@RedMeansRecording]

The bartender analogy was so painfully well done. Great video.

[@evelynten1539]

what is also interesting about the impact monetisation has on the content that is produced for the platform is the history of the "adpocalypse". The stable income stream advertisers provided KZbin imploded over relatively controversial content gaining a lot of algorithm attention, with the advertisers' logos simply being seen anywhere in the vicinity of content freaking enough advertisers out to warrant action on KZbin's part. And with that, the "demonetised" status on a video became the "stick" to the monetisation's "carrot". Supressing unwanted themes and notions is in the very literal sense censorship. I doubt we've seen the full potential of this system excercised by Google, with only existing controversies being censored (meaning that they didn't "cultivate" any ideologies to somehow gain an advantage), but the possibilities are scary. Considering that Google exists on revenue from advertisers, if they actively pursue censoring something, Google would have to conform. It's very scary that the entire modern entertaintment industry (social media) is ad-based, meaning capital has direct influence on it, like how an American war movie can't be unpartriotic because the Army gave them vehicles or whatever else they may provide with a probably unspoken agreement to not be critical.

[@wepg]

So I'm very new to KZbin, having really only started when Victoria 3 dropped, but I think my channel is probably not indicative of normal things for normal people. I spent twelve years in food service wage slavery, including eight years in a corporate regime where my neurodiversity was considered dangerous at the very least. I am fortunate enough that my wife works in Biotech, so when we got married I quit. I had spent nearly a decade of my life being coerced into suppressing my own intellectual and creative pursuits out of fear that I might lose my paycheck and, thus, my ability to feed myself if I dared to be happy. My KZbin channel makes me happy. Maybe it's weird that I'm using my audience and my platform as a way to rediscover joy through communication and challenging myself, but honestly I don't care. I'm free and full of Other Memory, only confined in my ability to make even more content by the 24-hour day. I'm not particularly motivated by a grind mindset so much as an authentic, consuming creative urge that has spent a decade starving in the wilderness and a work ethic forged in the fires of Isengard. I make content because I want to. I make content because I can. I make content because it deserves to be made, and I know I can make the content well, even if it fails some normal aesthetic evaluations. Someday I hope to go back and get thumbnails and other normal things for normal people, but right now I am still *learning*.

[@Rosencreutzzz]

I think that's a great point to end up at, even, or almost, especially because it's not "too aspirational" and trying to advance something more than yourself. If the bartender example wasn't a sign, I also worked service industry for quite a while and while bars were fairly conversational, it wasn't really generative, and I think I need to participate in discussion. Before I had an aspiration of *job* in KZbin, I still wanted views because I wanted discourse and dialogue and things. Which mostly means that I keep feeling content with growth for a little while and then getting hungry for a broader base, in a silly little cycle.

[@wepg]

@@Rosencreutzzz Yeah, discourse definitely was (and remains) a prime motivating factor for me too. I like the community that I've built so far quite genuinely. There's a lot of smart players in there and a lot of new people, and the community is very happy helping each other which is absolutely phenomenal. I'm sure I'd be having less fun if the people I came across in my first month or so were less chill, but I like to pretend that the channel helped self-select on that front. In reality, of course, I realize that I have no idea what I am doing and am instead just focused on making content *I* enjoy watching, and if the algorithm helps me pay for groceries I'm sure my wife would appreciate it.

[@emt4377]

"You must learn to exist with no religion, no country, no allies. You must learn to see what is in front of you with no preconceptions. And what does the money machine eat to shit out? It eats youth, spontaneity, life, beauty and above all it eats creativity." William S,. Burroughs from the Interzone

[@s7robin105]

I just want to say I appreciate all of your analysis videos. Even if not all are successful as others, you always give your thoughts in a clear and well done way. This one was very interesting to listen to, especially as someone who’s sort of seen the weirdness of KZbin algorithms as well. I have 1 video with nearly 200k views when most others are barely over 100. Tho I suppose my content isn’t aimed to become anything more than random spurts of things. I don’t plan on being commodified but it is a sad state of society that almost every aspect of life now is a product

[@happens4656]

Having worked as a bartender, the analogy 50 minutes in really stuck with me. Loved this video!

[@Jovian12]

Great video, unfortunately had to watch the Embler segment a second time because I was laughing too hard at the effort put forth in it. Amazing job.

[@darksnow222]

I fucking lost it at "after update 1.7 called binding" in the embler bit.

[@Nitesurgeon]

Really liked how well the intro set me up for what this was. Also, Thank You for the end. I wish to stray further from God every upload until I am unrecognizable

[@Rosencreutzzz]

voice modulation is my next tactic, presumably.

[@enigmaticunknown2862]

Being honest I do not know any of the you-tubers you referenced but I'm glad your channel came as a suggestion to me. I will say I never click on thumbnails with people making stupid faces or if they ask a question. Just state what you are going to talk about and I'll decide. I do not watch everything that comes out for any of the channels I'm subscribed to and I'm constantly looking for new. Sadly searches for new content rarely pay off. I basically refresh my feed in hopes that something new might pop up. It seems to me that the house always wins. You might get a payout but you know the owners of the site made much much more off your efforts. That last one was Night Surgeon or Nitesurgeon. I could tell your mind was somewhere else. I enjoyed it, very eyeopening.

[@AnRel]

Okay but this video is fantastic! Always love hearing about other video essayists’ experiences within the small youtuber spaces especially, and I’m super curious to see how these more recent moves over the past few years to very intentionally cultivate spaces in which like-minded creators can connect with one another for the express purpose of fucking the algorithm end up affecting the culture and viability of breadtube (or left-tube or whatever we’re calling it now)

[@MichaelMykFreelava]

As something of a former small channel content creator, hearing your story of going through communities trying to help one another make it was really interesting. Almost a decade ago, I kind of inadvertently became a small content creator making map-game timelapses. I had been a huge map-game fan for a while by that point, but my new schedule was making it difficult to find time to play. I figured the next best thing would be to just watch the AI play, so I could see the stories play out in high speed. With that in mind, I searched youtube for that sort of content, but only found maybe 2-3 videos, which were all over a year old. More out of frustration than anything, I downloaded OBS, loaded up EU4, and made my own. For a while I was mainly just making videos for myself, and uploading them to save other people the frustration, like a much less helpful version of a guy who made a car repair video, since the lack of one forced him to do a deep dive on the issue. By the time I had explored my initial inspiration to the extent that I was satisfied, I started to feel vaguely obligated to the little community that had formed to keep making videos. Pretty soon I was making decent gas money, and was able to start traveling, which inadvertently led to me finding meaning and passion from other sources, and perhaps unfortunately more or less silently dropping my channel. By that time though, there were several new channels making timelapse videos with new ideas and formats which were able to branch out and keep things interesting, so I like to think the spirit of my channel lives on as a small part of the history of a small niche genre that's still going strong. I'm sure I would have made at least the first few even if there was no monetary incentive, but the monetary incentive definitely helped encourage me to keep it going, and getting paid for that work really helped me justify the time spent both to myself and to others, and helped give me the means to get started on the path towards the life I live now. At the very least it was an exciting tangent.

[@zelokorLocalGodOfChaosAndBread]

I mean... wikipedia has a problem with removing articles about women in science because they aren't "important enough" and alot of really important topics are just ignored if they don't have enough information or are for small enough things, but I don't think they care about that at all given that one article

[@dvidsilva]

I work in tech, and is kinda sad that lots of supposedly smart people are wasted on these. They're so detached from reality and concerned about their career that they completely disregard the damage and stupidity they spread

[@roycrownguard]

I did not see all the Fire Emblem references in the beginning coming and as a fan I enjoyed every moment of it

[@lidu6363]

I don't even remember how I found your channel, maybe it was the algorithm... but I like it here!

[@snowyetie8799]

It’s like a cozy house with friendly strangers and a guy who’s soul purpose is to constantly be ranting

[@allie-ontheweb]

Happy to hear Evie Lupine mentioned! Been watching her stuff for years, she got me into the.... scene when COVID happened and I couldn't go out lol Also, first time viewer here, really enjoyed the video! Has a minimalist vibe to the slides that reminded me of No Boilerplate, who I also like

[@jobo5300]

Thank you for the video. It was very enjoyable and informative. As a non creator and lurker 95% of the time I never even considered some of these perspectives before. Also I greatly appreciated the "Embler" section with all its amazing references. Good job!

[@lucidiabautista2085]

My trust and love for this channel could not have been more improved than by the surprise mention of Evie Lupine.

[@senflyer-]

Thanks for the vid! As a small creator trying to get over the 100 follower area, I often tried looking at how to grow advice or the perfect schedule or small youtuber communities. The ironic thing is that I spent more time doing this than actually making videos. The truth is I was afraid of putting myself in front of an audience in any meaningful way, so I would keep stalling by focusing on other aspects. I'm happy you talked about this as a lot of the "how to make it" people will never mention this aspect of their content. I also appreciate what you said about small spaces being all about leaving them instead of creating a true community of creators. A lot of the bigger creators grew alongside each other imo. I enjoyed the different metaphors used too.

[@НиколайЛамберт]

Im around from dial-up modem era. COnnection was horrible. But finding info that you actually seek waas much easier. Just as finding meaningful conversation with any specialist or dedicated person.

[@HI-fh2mj]

as someone with adhd, this vid has been very... relaxing... for me. Your voice, delivery, cadence is exactly what I needed - and it delivered information while at the same time I was working in something else. It did not rush through as so many other videos. It has pauses, change of voice, a stroyteller vibe. It put me in a good rythm and made me think about how I can take some of what you do well and apply it to my day to day. The sponsor fake-out made me click like :D

[@hrdcpy]

A pretty great explanation of one part of the closed-Internet's ensheetification.

[@ramuk1933]

As someone who is incredibly unusual even for an individual with autism and ADHD, the algorithms of KZbin (or any) adds, Google searches with any vagueness at all and even some that aren't vague, and most video recommendations on KZbin are completely irrelevant to me.

[@DaveGrean]

Same, but in this case that's probably irrelevant; this issue seems to exist for everyone, even the dreaded full-on neurotypicals. I literally get spammed continuously with a KZbin ad about car insurance (I have neither a car nor driver's licence), firms that help entrepreneurs with setting up their company (I'm poor and do physical labour, what company?), medication for old people diseases that I won't have in decades, and ... an especially mindblowing one that starts out talking about how 'everyone hates taxes', which then turned out to be directed at ... tax collectors who are annoyed when they need to send reminders or when someone can't pay. KZbin feed is still mostly filled with dozens of videos about whichever subject the last handful of videos I watched happened to be about, without any consideration for my actual interests that I regularly 'consume content' (ugh) about. Facebook ads and 'suggested' posts are almost invariably stuff that I don't care and have never even thought about. Literally the only recent thing that comes to mind that was even remotely relevant, was a single KZbin ad about toothpaste (I have serious dental issues), and it has only appeared a single time. Trust me mate, you're definitely far from the only one in this boat, lmao

[@vlc-cosplayer]

"most video recommendations on KZbin are completely irrelevant to me" That's by design, they want you to keep scrolling! Your attention is literally money to them, even if you have an ad blocker on. Just being an active user on their site gives reinforces their position as a monopoly.

[@cheddargt]

Holy fuck the demon summoning part just completely SENT me, good shit

[@rustymason3860]

This was predicted by internet activists back in the 1990s. It's already happened.

[@sqipio3358]

You have a really nice voice. It's like silk. I got chills at some points (in a good way)

[@gelatinouscatgirl8369]

Watching this video and your tangent about twitter is really funny now, seeing how it became worse and worse over the relatively short span of time and how "unmonetizeable" platform became very monetizeable. I would even argue that it stands as the best example of how money ruin a platform. Bots? Low quality bait? Concern trolling? We got it all for the sake of sweet sweet payout at the end of the month. And it works. I've seen a lot of people who I would consider "smart" fall for easy bait and retweeting or replying to absolute garbage thus promoting that garbage to more people and in turn making creators of that garbage more money.

[@wildwavesairsoft]

This video was so good and well thought out that I didn’t want it to end

[@bobolobocus333]

37:40 - I did NOT expect to see Gandalf's Big Naturals in this video.

[@vez3834]

Didn't you see them coming from the thumbnail?

[@ramuk1933]

I just came here for an overly philosophical and complicated analysis of a topic interesting enough for me to care about. It's the most engaging and fun type of KZbin video, bar possibly the same but specifically with mathematics.

[@duckles426]

i'm only part way through but,,, if lunyr's plan for incentivising people to make articles was to * pay them * (in some byzantine way) why would they not just hire people to write articles. like, that solves the bias and quality problems, and they're already assuming that all bad actors will be outside the system, so it can't be 'centralised' (the answer to this is that they won't be able to cover every subject, but like, that's why the wikipedia model is already great)

[@Rosencreutzzz]

Well, core to their design philosophy is that decentralization thing, typical of the crypto space, as such, they wanted to cultivate experts without actually cultivating experts, to pretend at an open platform when really being made by token holders (who I guess could be anyone if they were willing to buy in) putting (possibly conflicting) knowledge into the world. They couldn't just hire people cause that would be a normal centralized elitist encyclopedia, not some kind of democratic flex...thing. Again that impulse towards "real democratization" with no actual intent to make things more universally accessible. I didn't even mention in the video but you had to pay to post an article, intended as a means of stopping botting. But really, what that does is it just means even if the platform saw large scale adoption, some views would never be present. Lunyr had so so many issues as a vision and as a product.

[@rhael42]

Kojima didn't actually predict memes. The idea originated from Richard Dawkins' 1976 book The Selfish Gene.

[@ColumbaMacFearghas]

At 1:08:14 I noticed that the background music was from the soundtrack of Bomberman Hero. That album is a banger and I felt I had to point it out.

[@KellyKnowlesArt]

heck yeah! i keep catching bomberman tracks in the background of various youtube videos and it's always SUCH a delight

[@qoobes]

Just found out about the channel. Not only have I taken my proverbial hat off to this content, it has been properly blown away. Congratualtions.

[@zuzoscorner]

The algerythum didn't bring me here. I was actually just using th relevant tab off from another video and see what came up. Glad I stayed to watch

[@kevnar]

I just put up merch for my book series. Every website wants like 90% of the profit from your work. So I either have to make pennies on the dollar, or jack up the price to the point of it being ridiculous. Meanwhile, the story world has an anti-capitalist message. It's bitterly ironic. But fans want those things.

[@qwopserver]

The passion at the end was fantastic! A specter is haunting KZbin…the specter of monetization. The call for revolution afterwards would have been so timely. Thanks for the analysis!!

[@axelprino]

As someone who's just part of the audience here in yt I had this impression that to some extent the algorithm was being treated like some sort of diety that had to be appeased, at least in recent years, good to know that it wasn't just me letting my imagination run wild and there's other people getting the same vibe from it.

[@t1t0s89]

I just came across your channel, and I like your video essays. Keep up the quality

[@RebekahSolWest]

Really interesting, and well made. Thank you.

[@jojodelacroix]

Bruh. The Embler segment using GBA era FE music and visuals had me so much in my feels. I like you 1000% more as a person for being the type of geek that would make that reference. Don't worry though. This isn't like a parasocial thing since I legit am just 2 minutes into the first video of yours I've ever watched, so that 1000% increase is from a base that's pretty low in reality.

[@SoVidushi]

I cannot stress the value of making youtuber friends enough if you are trying to make it on youtube. I haven't yet, but some of my friends have found success and we are still friends. And it is SO helpful to have other like-minded creative people who are also trying to make it in the same systems as you. Collaboration leads to better art and even if you don't collaborate, community is so valuable.

[@EphemeralPseudonym]

So many of these websites would spend essentially pennies on hosting if they quit stuffing their sites full of analytics and other bloat that cause the sites to eat up tons of bandwidth and storage and processing power

[@vlc-cosplayer]

Google: "You should add our analytics to your website!" Also Google after you add *their own* analytics: "Ew, why does your website load so slowly?" (puts you lower in the search results)

[@nateofthesouth]

I'm having flashbacks of all the times a manager read a book or attended a breakout session on Search Engine Optimization

[@AnarchoCatBoyEthan]

Insane video, what interesting stuff. I love the perspective i don’t have access to, it’s very cool. Thanks for what you do, and for making less orthodox stuff sometimes.

[@НиколайЛамберт]

Basicaly monetisation exploits good will, trust and free creativity. By exploitin it, it gets replaced by monetised content. In the end nothing creative is created as it was eplaced by monetised content, but then thus conten has nothing left to exploit. And not to forget crafting everything towards short term metrics.

[@AlecSorensen]

Thanks for your thoughtful examples. One of my long term goals is to create a site that serves authors and artists better than current social media, and how reward structures are not optimized for either creators OR their fans, but for advertisers. The case for it would be something like ads enable you (as the viewer and commodity to advertisers) to support your creators, essentially for the work of watching ads. The problems with that are many. First, this seats the least engaged segment of a community (those who would only watch for free) as the primary audience, which is backwards of how healthy communities work and grow. Healthy communities incentivize and cater those most engaged (in terms of money or their own involvement). Second, this means the platforms are not optimizing for either a better creator environment OR a better a fan community environment, but for a maximal ad-watching environment. Third, this distracts creators from ostensibly what their audience wants (and might be willing support the most) to create the most ad-friendly content. But pointing problems is easy. I don't think there's a silver bullet, and there is always going to be some tension between creativity and the need to support oneself. However, I do think a more Patreon-like model will have to be part of the solution. The more closely the reward is tied to what both parties want (creating/enjoying an experience), the more than can be optimized rather than subverted by the need to make a living. From there, it's a matter of trying to optimize that experience with best practices. Something like Patreon's core model, a focus on searchable/permanent content (like KZbin) rather than endless feeds of disposable content (FB posts/Twitter), more robust tools for audience discourse and creativity like a wiki. None of these things are new, all would require some level of experimentation to get right, but the first step is just being free to optimize for creator/fan experience.

[@vairtere]

Just a note to say I really love what you're doing and thanks. Subbed.

[@nightlight0x07cc]

As a viewer, I can tell you how it feels on my end. I like long form video essays that can give me information I have not heard before. I get a TON of recommendations, but I hate clicking on one and getting a poorly AI voiced hour of the same idea restated ten times. I also have to admit, I'm tired of hearing crypto Ls xD My favorites are Jacob Geller, Solar Sands, and Emp Lemon. Your profile picture and name seemed serious and your thumbnail was clean, not clickbaity. It was a topic I'd thought about, but not read about or watched essays about. That's how you got my view ^-^

[@nightlight0x07cc]

and because this video was enjoyable, you now get preference if you show up in my recommended again. If I see a few good videos in a row, I'll watch your backlog, if that's all good I'll start waiting for every release from you cx

[@loloritopooten]

I enjoy this channel and the work you put into it a lot. This essay in particular was both informative and touching. I especially appreciate that you underlined the importance of shout-outs and helping each other circumvent the algorithm. Thank you.

[@joshismyhandle]

I got here by exploring new categories on the KZbin app. While this channel probably should’ve been recommended to me based on my watching habits, the algorithm has been feeding me the same content over and over, mostly quantitative slop. Only by reaching out for different content did I arrive. Glad I did!

[@solutanbrun]

Awesome video! I really feel like you put your thumb on exactly what I used to “love” about twitter and what the changes to the site actually entail. I must also say I really liked your “pray ironically to the algorithm but then in earnest” story in the beginning ❤

[@kspoo10_]

I'm curious about your view of Tumblr. It feels very different to the rest of social media nowadays, and less money-focused. Most people think it's dead, which, fair enough. But it feels more comfy, more like a community of friends.

[@Stinkoman87]

It also has the option of a pure chronological feed of the people you follow, unaffected by algorithm. Not that it doesn't have other issues, but it has partially resisted enshittification.

[@vez3834]

​@@Stinkoman87 isn't the chronological feed just equivalent to YT subscriptions? It's what I mainly use.

[@slouch186]

The Jerkboy Theory is so funny i wish i had a way to share it with other people

[@peach_total]

a lot of this (specifically within the conclusion) also maps onto musicians and streaming services-facilitators who cut into all the value of creatives and force them to try to monetize and turn their creativity into a product

[@superskrub4209]

You're too powerful man, I'm shocked. You even got the green names

[@itsyaboinadia]

leaving a comment for support, thank you for putting this up its much appreciated

[@runningcrabburps]

Okay I'm autistic for fire emblem so the whole embler bit makes me very happy

[@Thunder-Sky]

.......a decentralized wikipedia? so like..... wikipedia? am I misunderstanding the way they've been using decentralization? like do they just use it synonymous with blockchain at this point?

[@Stinkoman87]

Yep, pretty much. And it's so synonymous with cryprobros that people that also take issue with the internet being controlled by a bunch of big corps but aren't trying to shoehorn the block chain in to things have started using the term 'federated' instead for their projects.

[@nickybugg]

THIS VIDEO WAS AMAZING!! i know im a bit late but holy crap i am amazed at the quality!!! and i was entertained the entire video!!! 10/10

[@SoVidushi]

Being a small youtuber (and befriending other small creators) permanently changed the way I watch youtube videos. I know so many creative and talented people whose channels don't get any recognition. Some with videos which would connect with a huge audience if only the algorithm would pick them up. So now I expect more from the videos I do watch because I am aware of all the good quality videos that don't get watched yet have so much value to offer. And it annoys me whenever lazy and unoriginal content becomes successful.

[@unthinkme_Adam]

This was very insightful and humorous. I enjoyed listening to it!

[@4mazIngxXGamEr]

35:13 terrifies me. An unknowable force whose actions are only apparent to us in their consequences, the intent, and the motives of the algorithm can only be understood through séance, through a massive hermeneutical venture into what all the outcomes mean. The algorithmic god is uncaring and vicious but it love us. Its terrifying to me that something we could easily understand as a machine designed with specific parameters can be put onto the pedestal to be considered a deity.

[@kuman0110]

literally deus ex machina

[@veto_5762]

Just as it always has been in human history, we idolize and give mistycal connotations to the things we can't really comprehend

[@stella_s]

good video, but i am a little disappointed by the complete lack of any mention of the fediverse - because in many ways, it is exactly that promised land you said could not exist in the outro. its *not* controlled by companies, you *can* take ownership of it (or at least be part of that), and you are relatively safe from the decisions of people that dont share your interests. please do look into this, its a fascinating system that works surprisingly well

[@lucyla9947]

I don't know if you mentioned this but there have been psychological studies showing that extrinsic motivation often lessens someone's intrinsic motivation. We've literally taken a group of children who liked to draw given some of them a reward for drawing and then observed that those who were rewarded were less likely to choose to draw once a reward wasn't available compared to the control group (who were offered a choice to draw but weren't rewarded if they did it). Giving someone a reward for being creative means they will likely be less drawn to creativity for creativity's sake.

[@TyraniceProductions]

The SSSV background music is a hell of a deepcut. Thanks for the brilliant video!

[@generalveers9544]

This is like the rant scene in Mr Harrington’s Phone but every point is examined as thoroughly as possible

[@snigwithasword1284]

"You should sell that!" --someone blissfully ignorant of commodification and separation of work and life or hobbies.

[@andrewsad1]

"Have you considered starting an etsy store?" ~Everyone who has ever heard that I have a 3d printer. I would sooner [redacted] every bank in my city and then myself than intentionally monetize my hobby. I'll [redacted] before I ask someone to pay me $20 for $0.50 worth of plastic.

[@calinguga]

​@@andrewsad1 i agree so much, but it's becoming a lot harder to resist going that route (of ruthlessly overpriced monetized hobbies), having discovered i'm not good at keeping jobs and generally struggling with money as a young adult.

[@VampireSquirrel]

As an artist who's started from scratch and built a successful business with my work a few times, I can tell yeah its all about creativity. You can't do what someone else is doing, you have to do your own thing and make it good. Sure someone might like off-brand Mr beast, but off-brand mr Beast will never BE Mr.Beast.

[@n0ttsweet_]

This video made me feel something. Nice work!

[@n0ttsweet_]

Also, not to niche-ify you, but id really enjoy more longform content from you that isnt DIRECTLY related to video games. I love games, but I have a desire for more thought provoking content like that that applies more to reality, or at least more reality-adjacent.

[@LostFutures1]

I needed this

[@Rosencreutzzz]

Ideally the work is...relatable. Part of me worries I've told this story that most people will be like "lmao what? That's not how it is for me" and have missed the mark.

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

I'm glad I discovered your channel today.

[@Enesparrowhawk]

always love your content, thanks for the new upload!

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

As a former FE fan, I loved the Embler part.

[@CatBarefield]

The runescape music is just…so fun. The soundtrack of simpler times. Thank you for the essay

[@orion3788]

I use an ai that skips ads so I didn't have to look away

[@casssaph2287]

still watching the vid but loved the presentation of that section of that essay you shared very good

[@fiddleriddlediddlediddle]

39:31 "They make economists look like what economists think they are." Gottem.