Monkee Myth #3 The Monkees Got Kirshner Fired - Oh the drama, the hubris, the irony!

[@pamelahall517]

This was a great myth buster! I so agree with you. I love the story behind Headquarters. I love all the music after Kirshner. It was some of their best stuff. Yet, my dream Monkee album would have had each Monkee having three of their own songs each singing their own songs-including Peter. I know he wasn't the strongest singer but always loved his voice. All four guys were super talented. Their story and music always make me smile.

[@Bigbadwhitecracker]

Terrific episode!!

[@monkeemythbusters3279]

Thank you! Appreciate that.

[@JadenYukifan28]

@@monkeemythbusters3279 You see, if Don Kirshner was never brought in in the first place, The Monkees would have had full-control over all the music...Ray and Bert didn't realize their mistake.....

[@cherylhulting1301]

Hello! I'm just finding your videos and I'm enjoying the background, some of which is familiar to me and some of which is new. I don't know if you are still responding to feedback and questions but I have some questions. I share your summation that Kirshner was a brilliant producer of pop records but a narcissistic control freak. Instead of mentoring the development of four talented young men, he told them they were nothing without him. Thank you for challenging the prevailing narrative that by seeking creative control, the Monkees destroyed their music and career. In fact it was the end of the beginning. If people would familiarize themselves with the Monkees' later work, they would discover that there is a lot of more interesting material than even what they got from the Brill Building songwriters. These days I'm more likely to listen to "Goin Down," "Daily Nightly," "Star Collector" "Nine Times Blue" or "Auntie's Municipal Court" even over "Look Out (Here Comes Tomorrow)" or "Last Train to Clarksville." And I like "Last Train." What killed their music career was the cancellation of the show (after which they lost their weekly ability to promote their material), changing musical tastes, blowback from NOT letting the Monkees play their instruments and most of all, their lack of a shared musical vision. Thank you also for providing the necessary context for Michael's outburst because in fact it WAS atypical of him. Nor does anyone seem to know about his going to Bert Schneider afterward to say that he "blew it" and "shouldn't have lost his temper," but that he found it frustrating to be in the number 1 band in America and not be able to play his instrument. Mike didn't tell this story but Bert Schneider did. I'm curious about your source material for the claim that Michael had understood that he was going to be the lead singer and producer of the band. I'm reading Mike's great autobiography and I haven't come across this claim yet, although he did say that even early on he tried to get out of his contract. The general consensus was that the show was being developed around Davy and that in Boyce and Hart's minds, only Davy and Micky were even going to sing. It leaves one wondering what on earth they thought they were going to do with Mike and Peter, the two who were primarily musicians. If this claim is true it would certainly add some dimension and clarity concerning Michael's frustration with his reduced role and the ego punches he was expected to take. They hired him and then tried to sideline him. What were they thinking?

[@monkeemythbusters3279]

Hi Cheryl, Thank you for the compliment and your detailed comment. I too am a big fan of the music made after they gained creative control. We would not have that music if Kirshner had stayed in control. I agree, if people can get past the initial hits and dig deep into their catalogue that’s when they come to respect the guys’ diverse musical talents. Actually, the Monkees were a multi-media project that included them playing live and the recordings, as well as the TV show. Think of the TV show as the trunk and the concerts as one branch, and the recordings as another branch. Clearly Bert and Bob were using The Beatles as a template. As for Michael’s book… ah, well, I was horrified, as were others who know the facts, at the way he rewrote history. He seems to think he was the right to his own facts. He doesn’t. In fact, last year I posted these two links on the Zilch Facebook page itemizing his, ah, well, um, misremembering. You’ll find an answer to your question about the source material in #1. I urge you to click on all the links within each article. Thanks! #1 drive.google.com/open?id=1trJan0VAgHDKlL_IEEJ0U5Kmy9PX4ihD #2 drive.google.com/open?id=1PMwszX0cmenCGsPM5Kvzra2TfbPjVi3k

[@Dlevvideo30]

Another brilliant summation!!

[@c.syde65]

Lol, this is funny. As for myself, I'm glad that "Headquarters" became The Monkees' third album instead of another Don Kirshner supervised album. But I personally am still keeping my fingers crossed for that unfinished third album that he was planning on releasing behind The Monkees' backs to be finished and released. But with half the group already dead now and only 8/15 of the Kirshner supervised songs completed with vocals and everything, I'm not sure if that's likely to happen. Especially if it means that Michael would end up adding his vocal to some of the tracks. Considering his distaste for Don Kirshner's bubblegum, I must say the likelihood of this ever happening is pretty thin.

[@thewkovacs316]

what kirshner chose not to tell the band, is that almost all producers working out of la and nyc at the time...used studio musicians and did not list them on the liner notes its why the wrecking crew was an open secret for decades he couldve sat the guys down and explained the reality of the biz...but instead, he chose to be a hardass with headquarters, despite hiring chip douglas to produce, the boys discovered why studio musicians were used on many albums and singles....it's hard and boring work and studio musicians are able to lay down tracks much faster over the years, kushner has mythologized what happened at the beverly hills hotel he ended up claiming that he wanted the band to do "sugar, sugar" and that pissed nez off and that is why he punched the wall

[@TheCranberrySource]

I'm liking these videos. One suggestion - maybe try some royalty free music in the background. Keep up the good work!

[@Bigbadwhitecracker]

Oh please NO MUSIC. It's perfect the way it is.

[@billballoo7881]

Kirshner got himself fired

[@glennpagemusic]

As far as I know, only people who were actually represented on More of the Monkees (in some respect) are praised on the back of the album?

[@bsquared4604]

Donnie?

[@Shindor-v4q]

Learn something, then learn some more, then find a different side and have a wider view point, read various comments with opposing viewpoints some praising Don Kirshner others slamming him. Then get your view, the Monkees story is so layered. Thanks for this.

[@michaelmlm6422]

I like the information and agree with most of your points...but you sound kind of angry in these videos.

[@monkeemythbusters3279]

That's my professional voice over artist, not me. But do the myths surrounding them make me angry? Yes!