Montreal Built Canada's Worst Commuter Rail Line...in 2014!

[@MaterielRoulant]

It was nice to be your guide and to have you in Montréal! It’s always nice to see more videos about transit here! Btw I just want to add a little correction on what I said : the ~7000 riders pers day is pre-pandemic, right now, ridership is around 40% of that. Commuter rail ridership recovery was quite bad in Montréal, especially when compared to the Metro and the buses which are pretty much back to normal.

[@MilesinTransit]

Thanks so much for showing me around, Jules! That's a shame ridership is that much lower, though...those trains must've been packed pre-COVID.

[@YoungThos]

@@MilesinTransit they were so packed that every morning when I would board at Sauvé I would have to beg a suburban lady to move her purse so I could sit down 😅

[@Hahlen]

3:24 thank god you told us what kind of dollars those were, I almost panicked for a second

[@nbajammer2]

I thought he forgot that for a second

[@snowyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

i was getting worried...

[@naturallyherb]

As a Canadian, I can tell that this exchange rate right now is in every way working against Canadians. Because we have to pay a lot more for virtually everything!

[@rmdvto]

As horrible as the 8x daily frequency is, there are 3 Canadian commuter rail lines with even worse frequency including Exo's Mont Saint Hilaire line at 7 daily trains per direction, the West Coast Express in Vancouver at 5 daily trains per direction and GO Transit's Richmond Hill line at just 4 daily trains per direction... Compare that to GO's Lakeshore West line which runs 50 trains daily per direction (all frequencies as of January 2024)

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

And the UP Express has 80 per direction. OC Transpo's Trillium Line will have over 100 trains per direction (every 12 min)

[@rmdvto]

​@@OntarioTrafficManhey your blog post is where I was sourcing the January 2024 frequencies from! Thanks for your work compiling that :) Looking forward to your end of year commuter rail analysis for 2024! If I recall correctly did the Kitchener and Barrie lines see some frequency improvements? Also what are your thoughts on the Cambridge/Pinebush spur from Guelph, do you think it's worth pursuing or are resources better spent trying to improve/extend the Milton line?

[@Islington_Express_Bus]

After the Yonge Line is extended into York Region, it will be basically just as fast to get off the train and onto the subway at Richmond Hill Centre.

[@rmdvto]

​@@Islington_Express_Bus I think at that point the Richmond Hill Line should be positioned as the "express" option to Union from Richmond Hill if they can somehow get the speeds and frequencies up and maybe double track some sections for passing. Oriole/Leslie station is still needed to connect with Line 4 but Old Cummer isn't really needed as a stop. Maybe eventually having a stop at Eglinton could make sense too

[@Dexter037S4]

@@OntarioTrafficMan Trillium Line isn't opening until 2025 lmao, and is barely commuter rail, knowing our city, it'll somehow suffer from Deutsche Bahn syndrome.

[@sdsd4139]

In small defense of LA Metrolink: it's a hub-and-spoke design for a polycentric city, and the frequencies were bad, though the new schedule changes coming in 19 days will radically change how Metrolink operates

[@szurketaltos2693]

It wasn't even good for getting downtown, hopefully it gets better at that.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

Exo frequencies are also terrible

[@GLitchesHaxandBadAudio]

LA isn’t “polycentric,” in that no job center can reasonably be argued as a significant job center for the metropolitan or city areas. LA has an anemic CBD and insufficient job density in any portion of the built up area to qualify.

[@sdsd4139]

@@GLitchesHaxandBadAudio LA has plenty of significant job centers. For white collar jobs: Century City, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, downtown

[@robertbunch7829]

​@@sdsd4139 whilshrie blvd is a huge job center in itself !!!

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

"NJ Transit but French isn't real, it can't hurt you" "NJ Transit but French: ..." Mascouche comes from the Algonquin word maskutchew meaning "bear plain". Montréal/Mascouche Airport, the largest regional airport in Quebec, used to be located there, but the airport closed in 2016 and it has now been replaced by the CentrOparc, a business park that's part of the TOD development near the station and bus terminal. And yeah as mentioned here, due to the Mont Royal Tunnel being converted for REM use, the Mascouche line will instead terminate elsewhere at Côte-de-Liesse which allows for a transfer to the REM. Most trains on the Mascouche line have ended at Ahuntsic rather than continue on this detour to Gare Centrale. The General Dynamics corporation you mentioned is headquartered in Reston, Virginia, and in 2020, it was the fifth-largest defense contractor in the world by arms sales, and fifth largest in the US by total sales! Formed in February 1952 with the merger of submarine manufacturer Electric Boat and aircraft manufacturer Canadair, the corporation today consists of several subsidiary companies with operations all over the globe. The company's products include Gulfstream business jets, Virginia and Columbia class nuclear-powered submarines, Arleigh Burke class guided-missile destroyers, M1 Abrams tanks and Stryker armored fighting vehicles. The Lachine Canal was constructed between 1821 and 1824. Before the canal construction there was a lake, Lac St-Pierre or Lac à la Loutre. The lake is now filled in and located near the Turcot Interchange on Autoroute 20. The canal gets its name from the French word for China (la Chine). European explorers sought to find a route from New France to the Western Sea, and from there to China, and hence auspiciously the region where the canal was built was named Lachine. The dense city you passed through after Repentigny station was Charlemagne, known for being the birthplace and childhood hometown of Celine Dion! Anjou used to be an independent city, but in 2002, it merged with Montreal and is now a borough. Basically, Montreal was one of the cities in Quebec affected by the 2000-2006 municipal reorganization in Quebec. Until 2001, the island of Montreal was divided into the city of Montreal proper and 27 smaller municipalities. So places in the city today like L'Île-Bizard, Verdun, Lachine, Pierrefonds, and Saint-Laurent were once their own municipalities. In January 2002, all 28 municipalities on the island were merged into the "megacity" of Montreal, under the slogan "Une île, une ville" ("One island, one city"). This merger was part of a larger provincial scheme launched by the Parti Québécois all across Quebec, resulting in the merging of many municipalities. It was felt that larger municipalities would be more efficient and would be more able to withstand comparison with the other cities in Canada, which had already expanded their territory, most notably Toronto. However, following a change of government in the 2003 Quebec election and a 2004 referendum, some of those municipalities became independent cities again in January 2006. Montreal-Est, Mont-Royal, Pointe-Claire, Westmount, Dorval, L'Île-Dorval, Kirkland, Senneville, Dollard-des-Ormeaux, Beaconsfield, Baie-D'Urfé, Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue, Côte Saint-Luc, and Hampstead went back to being their own municipalities. The current city of Montreal comprises the pre-2002 city of Montreal plus 12 of the previously independent municipalities and is divided into 19 arrondissements.

[@shauncameron8390]

[@minirick69]

The fact that a boat can do the trip to downtown from pointe-aux trembles in like 3x less time than this train is a absolute disgrace. I love this city but man the transit in the east of montreal is a nightmare of planning. Great video Miles !

[@MilesinTransit]

Thank you!

[@YoungThos]

@@minirick69 The REM de l'Est was meant to be the solution to all of our woes in eastern Montreal. Sadly, NIMBYs… 😿

[@KC3YCU]

​@@YoungThosYou could say the NIMBYs were "Losing their religion" about the REM

[@minirick69]

@@KC3YCU ooh good one !

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Can't believe you met the Québécois Disney Percy Jackson! Yes, Terrebonne station is still in Terrebonne. Terrebonne has some weird borders that wraps around Mascouche and prevents Mascouche from having a shore. Kinda like how Croatia prevents Bosnia & Herzegovina from having a coastline except for Neum. Basically the station is in the former city of Lachenaie and in 2001, Terrebonne merged with Lachenaie and La Plaine into a bigger Terrebonne. If you're impressed with how much TOD that was built in Mascouche for the service, you'd be surprised to see how much TOD was built in Riverhead for the limited Greenport Branch service and Riverhead being a hub for SCT! The Greenport Branch is worse than this. Riverhead is honestly quite nice, besides TOD, they have bikeshare, the incredible Railroad Museum of Long Island (an amusement park-style LIRR train from the 1964-65 NY World's Fair, the 1949 Lionel showroom layout, M1s, the last PRR MP70 double-decker from 1932, etc), the LI Aquarium, a cool riverwalk park with sculptures, the seasonal Splish Splash water park is nearby, and SCT even runs a circulator route around Riverhead which serves different essentials like Walmart, Tanger outlets, the station, and a medical center! It's the diesel section of the Ronkonkoma Branch, and it has very limited service because it's the last dark territory (no conventional signals) on the LIRR, it's single-tracked from Ronkonkoma all the way to Greenport, the North Fork is sparsely populated compared to the South Fork/Hamptons, and it mainly relies on seasonal tourism like its wineries. And the platforms are short, so trains typically only have two passenger cars. Besides tourists using it, Greenport station is also next to the ferry to Shelter Island. The LIRR once ran Jury Duty special trains to Riverhead so people could have the option to take the train for jury duty, since the courts in Riverhead are by the station. East of Medford is the Brookhaven Rail Terminal, an important freight terminal built to take 40,000 long haul trucks off Long Island roads. Between Yaphank and Riverhead, the train goes through the Long Island Pine Barrens, a remnant of the Atlantic coastal pine barrens that overlays and recharges a portion of a federally designated sole source aquifer for Long Island's drinking water. Almost all of the Peconic River and Carmans River as well as much of their watersheds are in the Barrens. Originally, service to Greenport was envisioned as a vital link in the rail-boat-rail connection between NYC and Boston. They thought the hills of New England were impassible for a rail line, and so Long Island was the solution. For this link, the LIRR briefly had steamboats going to Stonington and Allyn's Point in Ledward, both in CT. This link opened in 1844, but that spirit was short-lived, as it was in 1848 that the New York & New Haven Railroad was opened across southern CT! Since its plan was not to serve local traffic on Long Island, the LIRR chose not to serve existing communities along the shores of the island, but built straight down the middle of the island, which was largely uninhabited at the time and relatively free of grade crossings. So in order to stay afloat, they turned their attention to serving Long Island and competing with the other railroads on the island, and through subsidiaries and acquisitions of these other railroads, it eventually led to the LIRR network we have today. Improvements wise, the MTA has considered electrifying up to Yaphank since they wanted to build Mid-Suffolk Yard in Yaphank in the late 2010s, but they chose to build the yard east of Ronkonkoma since they didn't want to upgrade Medford and Yaphank stations. Though as of 2024 in a 2025-2029 capital plan, they've still considered electrification to Yaphank. Yaphank station is being relocated to East Yaphank to serve Brookhaven National Laboratory as well as nearby TOD built called The Boulevard. And then there's the North Atlantic Rail plan which proposes electrifying and double-tracking up to Riverhead as part of new HSR infrastructure across Long Island, with a tunnel from the Ronkonkoma Branch under the Long Island Sound and through New Haven to Hartford. For me, the Greenport Branch is important not only because of its history, but it's a link for the county's seat of Riverhead, a national laboratory, and the North Fork to NYC and LI MacArthur Airport, and if there was more service by upgrading the route like electrifying, signaling, or double-tracking, then they could alleviate the seasonal traffic, people from Shelter Island will take it, it can easily get more people to visit the North Fork’s farms and wineries with frequent service, and it would also make a difference in North Fork farms being enabled to take the train to sell their produce

[@lekinsh]

Also alleviate the crazy traffic on the weekends. The roads on the North Fork are giant parking lots in the summer and fall on the weekends.

[@LukeSesayRailfan]

Great video 👍 Nice haircut miles 👍

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

4:48 There are 5 stations with high-level platforms in the Exo network and they're all on the Mascouche line: - Mascouche - Terrebonne - Repentigny - Gare Centrale - Côte de Liesse (under construction) The CPKC Exo lines (from Lucien L'Allier) are entirely low platform and Exo has some low floor coaches such as Bombardier BiLevels that can be used on those lines but not the CN lines.

[@EdPMur]

@@OntarioTrafficMan Their new CRRC coaches are also low platform only

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

​@@EdPMurYeah, exactly

[@_DJL27]

you had me CACKLING with "now it's time for a *toilette* review" 😂

[@RaphaelSanchez-qe2hh]

Love the video miles in transit!!

[@Pensyfan19]

Good video. For those of you who don't know, when this line was first built in 2014, it utilized the Mount Royal Tunnel between Ahuntsic and Gare Central without having to divert all the way around the two massive yards on the south end of the city. When REM took over the Deux Montages Line, they also took over the only two tracks that led from this line directly into Gare Central, thus temporarily forcing this line to go through this lengthy reroute around the south end of Montreal until the transfer station with REM is opened. For more information on this branch and its bizarre history and routing, I have an episode on this branch in my branch line review series named Fixing Your Branch Line.

[@GeldaStPete]

Good info. I was thinking "they could not have been -that- dumb" lol I know North American transit design is bad, but not -that- bad..

[@youtubesewersocialist]

the line not using the tunnel was mentioned in this video

[@WhiskyCanuck]

And the REM operator is arguing that the REM frequency through the tunnel will be too high to have the EXO trains also sharing it after the tunnel reopens.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

​@@WhiskyCanuckREM is going to be running every 2-3 minutes, there's no way to run big commuter trains between that even if they had compatible signalling systems, which they don't

[@Mystro256]

I believe the line in the future is actually going to end at a REM station. The expection is the people will transfer to get to gare centrale. (Just realized they mentioned it in the video)

[@VincentLander]

Canada content is always welcome. Cheers from Ottawa!

[@IVR02]

Always happy to see more Montreal content, even if its a really weird commuter line! I've always been intrigued by how similar Exo's equipment is to NJT. I remember really wanting to ride it when I was in Montreal, but I didn't get the chance, so... maybe next time? Either way, aside from the French signage, you could totally show me stills from this video at some points and convince me it's somewhere in New Jersey.

[@jonathanlanglois2742]

16:00 Fun fact, there used to be 5 tracks on the bridge. The REM took over 2 of them, so there's only 3 left for commuter trains and long haul trains. It tells you just how much the government thinks of commuter trains in Montreal.

[@TFTSB]

Fun Exo fact: Exo service makes me sad

[@MilesinTransit]

Now that is a fun fact

[@rykilg]

Amazing bilingual effort with the toilette review! I suis Montrẽal!

[@jfmezei]

The Mascouche line uses the CN line from Repentigny (Joliette sub) and the St-Laurent sub through the island of Montreal to the Tachereau yards. This is an industrial line and it used to be more important when Montréal had huge oil refineries in the east end of island. But still handled a fair number of small freight trains to serve either industrial customers in montreal, or serve smaller centres east of Montréal (all the way to Québec) as well as its line to Senneterre and Matagami (though Matagami slated for abandonment) which carry lots of ore/wood products into Montréal. This is one reason the line is not fast, and why EXO has had difficulty getting more frequencies. Once you get to the Tachereau yards, the tracks you are on are "yard" classification with very slow speeds (I think 5mph) and because freight trains start from there, when they start they go slow and block tracks for very long time. It's a fun experience but not suitable for passenger trains. The HFR project, should it ever materialize would have to pass through there to get to Ottawa which is why HFR will never happen wity the loss of Central station and tunnel and minister's promise that it must pass through Trois Rivièves.

[@UncommonElevators]

This is literally canada's version of the new mexico rail runner its hilarious. They both built new track and a highway median station for very few trains.

[@thespanishinquisiton8306]

There's also a single high platform at the Ottawa station. Other than that, I'm not aware of any in the whole country

[@Fx1240]

I think the UP train in Toronto also has them

[@thespanishinquisiton8306]

@@Fx1240 Oh true I forgot about that

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

From west to east: - Pearson Airport - Weston - Mount Dennis - Bloor - Toronto Union - Ottawa - Montréal Centrale - Côte de Liesse - Repentigny - Terrebonne - Mascouche - Québec Du Palais

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

I rode just rode Exo today! It is garbage compared to GO. Wayfinding is terrible, accessibility is marginal at best, most services are slow AF, and the frequency is terrible on all lines. My favourite parts are the Multilevel coaches, and the two express trains per day on the Vaudreuil line.

[@jfmezei]

When CP (now CPKC) set out to abandon all operation in Québec in the 1980s, it sold off many of its lines to short line operators, but kept the tracks at interchange points to force these short lines to feed traffic only to what was left of CP in Québec. Montréal and Main (of Lac Mégantic fame) had to connect to CP at Farnham, and Gennesse and Wyoment that operates the Québec gatineau Railway muct pass through CP,s remaining tracks in Laval and Blainville (hence why CP kept tracks to Blaiville when it tore out all tracks north of there). When EXO built the Mascouche terminus station, it is actually on the CP St-Martin-Québec line and its tracks link the CN line to Hervey Jct to the ex CP line (Québec Gatineau) which now allows the Québec Gatineau to interchange with CN and avoid CP completely. So when the fedreal politicians annoucnmed the HFR train project their originally wanted to please the Trois-Rivières MP and promised the train would pass through Trois Rivières and this made that connection really interesting as they could transfer from the CP line at Mascouvhe onto CN and then turn left and take the tracks to Gare Central via the Tunnel. Then politcian promised a stop in Laval which eliminated the possibility to take the ore efficient route and would require an interchange between CP and CN be rebuilt at L'accadie (just east of the Ahuntsic station, you can see traces of it with an old bridge) but those tracks would not have to cut through a home depot's parking lot. And then CDPQ announced it project which pretty much killed the idea and the most recent parliementary report has accepted it is no lonegr possible to bring trains to downtown and will be perfectly happy to stop the trains at the CDPQ station where the Train de L'.est is supposed to stop until the line is killed. The delay you saw getting into Gare Centrale is because CDPQ is hostile to trains and doesn't want too many train to use it. That is because their little 2 car REM trains endd up using 8 of the 15-16 tracks (so half its potential capacity) because they chose to build in the middle of station and permanently cannibalize tracks and prevent re-opening of 5-6 and 7-9. ( REM uses 9 and 12 for its trains, and filled in 10-11 to create a station at that level (it doesn't own station level, it only owns track level, so easier for it to cannibalize tracks to create one large central platform that has the stairs/escalators to it, as well as ticket office, fare gates etc. CDPQ also reduced the access tracks from 6 down to 3 on the elevated section of tracks south of Central Station. Amtrak has had to hire lawyers to have CDPQ honour the long term contract it had with CN for access to station after CDPQ bought tghe tracks from CN and could oly get measly 11:10 departure in morning which means that a big part of travel to New York is in Darkness (original departure was at ~08:00 in morning as is it for northbound depaartures).

[@aksynth]

It sounds like CDPQ has a lot of clout in Canada. To transfer that much right-of-way to REM, some single entity probably had to have a lot of political clout. It sounds like that entity is CDPQ, which being American, I had to look up.

[@jfmezei]

@@aksynth Yep they have a lot of clout and are government-owned and it was the government that asked them to come up with 2 separate systems, the one to south shore, and the one to airport via the existing CN right of way and existing station built at the airport under US terminal. CDPQ came back with a miuch greater system and did a wiz bang sales job in the press, claiming it would be self funded, profitable and no strain on governmnent so it would have been very hard for government to reject. But as soon as approved, the request dfor funding came in but it was too late.

[@rakslice]

13:08 Everyone struggles to remember, as the CN Taschereau yard and the CPKC Côte St-Luc yard are literally right next to each other in a sandwich in between Côte St-Luc and the industrial area next to the airport

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

Yeah it's hard to tell on a map but the Mascouche line presumably goes through the CN yard since it uses CN lines on both sides

[@JEKaviator]

Lachine Canal mentioned Also shoutout to the new bike path traffic pattern at 16:08 lol

[@jfmezei]

The EXO multi-levels order was tagged on to the NJ Transit one, so they are "essentially" identical. There are a few different components. Both were built to pass thorugh tunnels (Hudson and Mont Royal were built to roughly same loading gauges at roughly same period). the multi levels are fair bit lower than the Go train bilevels to fit thorugh those tunnels. One major difference is that EXO did not pay for dual mode vestibule doors, while NJ Transit can open vestibule doors for both high level and low level platforms. For a high level platform, this means 4 doors per side per car for NJ Transit which helps reduce dwell time which is a big issue at Penn Station. The Mascouche line built a section of high level platform at Sauvé station for handicapped passengers (as well as the elevator) But you hve to be in a specific car. (Go Train has similar arrangements) . Pointe Aux Trembles station also has such a short stub of elevated platform with ramp. The VIA stop at Sauvé dates from long time ago where it had mroe frequent service and was a way to get people to broad it there instead of go all the way to downtown. Think before 1966 when Métro opened. St-Leonard/Montréal Nord also has the elevated palatform stub. Same with St-Michel and Auntsic. Have no idea how often trains actually align so a high level platform is facing a high level door.

[@jfmezei]

A bit of history: First iteration was a temporary line to Repentigny during bridge construction and the "terminus" at what is today Marcel Lauring (route 117) IIRC. It was more succesful than anticipated. Similar bridge construction work spurred the re-opening of line to Candiac (formerly to Farnham) on south shore, and to Blainville where tracke that formerly went to Mont remblanst (petit train du nord) stopped. The Candiac line became permanent, and the Blainville line became more succesful than thought and they rebuilt tracks to St-Jérome (but the train station was already ina new downtown plaza and used as community centre so they have to build new complex south iof it and the line has seen its frequency increase but it is partly because EXO paid to get extra track from Montréal West to the branch off point at Parc so as to not interfere with CP's trains to Port of Montréal, it last main customer left in Québec). The project to build the line to mascouhe was one of AMT's biggest one because they would invest a lot in new stations, widen the Ahuntsic bridge to allow a platform. They went "Cadillac" , including that abusive bomb shelter (where the CN line that passes even close to the plant has none) and planned on having heated platforms to avoid having to clear snow from it. Cost overruns and delays resulted in the AMT/EXO head being let go and new guy paired down, but opened the line in 2014, along with the required hybrid locos (also jointly purchased with NJ Transit) and use of the Mont Royal Tunnel (and at time, nneeding CN to approve those multi-level cars and CN dragged their feet). The tunnel was transfered to EXI at one point but then stolen by CDPQ in 2016. The line never had time to start buioding up ridership. CDPQ had been tasked to build a rapid transit on the new Champlain bridge to link south shore to downtown. And had been tasked to build a rapid transit link to airport from Downtown alont the CN main line (for wich accomodations had been integrated in the rebuidping of Turcot interchange, and the station inside the airport already built when they bult the US terminal and facing south to connect to tracks follwing CN mainline). However, when CDPQ, whose project was never put through urban planning and bypassed transit approval/planning (since it is an investment firm, not a transit organisation so exempt from that law), they did not wish to run along the CN ine and decided instead to get Centrak Station and the mont royal tunnel and have the line to airport go all the way to north ened of the island before dipping back south west to airport. But that also meant takiung over the existing Deux Montagnes line. They had no intentions to do anything with the new Mascouche line becauyse they planed that REM de L'Est that would kill it. From that pont EXO was forced to stop any increase in frequency on the lilne which would lose access to tunnel. The few trains that do making it to Central station do so for a number of reasons. For one thing, EXO's main maintenance centre is near it, so trains on the MAscouche line need to go there from time to time. Secondly, as part of CDPQ's takeover to wreck all transit plans, it not only got onwership of tunnel transfered to by by the Govt, but also purchased from CN the elevated traccks leading to Central station (there were 6), and not documented in canada, but documented by Amtrak, also purchased ALL the tracks in Central station and controls slots. (this delayed restart of Adirondack train because CDPQ did not wish to honour a very long term contract Amtrak had with CN on use of Central Station). For EXO, keeping the trains going there keeps a platform sufficiently occupied to placate CDPQ from cutting off access completely (The Mascouche line as well as the St-Hilaire line still use Central Station). While the so called Urbanists from opthert cities have plainted only a rosy picture of the REM and decry the death of the REM de l'Est, fact is that CDPQ came in promising 1- to allow trains to use tunnel 2-would be self funded 3-would be profitable. As soon as they proceeded to point of no return and had control of Central station and tunnel, the promise made to allow HFR traisn through tunnel fell through, CDPQ went to both government to get billiosn in funding for construction, and a guarantee that they get subsidies for everyone boarding a REM train to ensure it is profitable to CDPQ. Consider this: Mascouche passenger used to use a ticket which got him/her downtown and 100% of ticket value went to EXIO. Now, when passenger switches to Métro at Sauvé, EXO gets 50% and STM gets 50%. When Trains terminate at the REM station, CDPQ wil basically gets 100% and more of the ticet value since they are guaranteed profitabel operation for every passenger. After CDPQ came clean on its requiremet for money which stopped/slowed all other transit projects in Montréal, the government told CDPQ to get ost on REM de L'est. It is ironic that just before CDPQ "stole" the infrastructure, EXO had just pay for a massive diamond elimination project with the CN St-Laurent line going over the Deux Montagnes line. Toronto urbanists will talk endlessly about the Davenport diamond but won't discuss what EXO had done as a means to eventually increase frequencies. So CDPQ got a ready made track without intersection with the CN line between its yards on Lachine and eastern and northern Québec.

[@chuckcatoc]

Living in Montreal east end (Pointe-aux-Trembles), it's crazy how stupidly placed the train station is, you can't efficiently get there using the local bus routes cause they're all going to the green line metro terminal, so that train line is made exclusively for people living in the suburbs working within 2 blocks from gare centrale, that's the only scenario with the EXO train is the fastest option We really love to build transit infrastructure, we have a great idea then we take 20-30 years arguing about it then we build... something, then we're like ''It should have been X instead of Y'' then another 30 years cycle...

[@YoungThos]

How could you, Miles? After all this line has done for you, namely allow me get you your missing VIA Rail points in a previous video. For shame smh 🙃 Also, this train is a victim of circumstance, built just a couple years before we knew the REM was going to be a thing. Because when it used to run downtown through the Mount Royal tunnel it was way faster, busier, more useful and generally awesome. It was also the best way to get from Sauvé to downtown during peak hours for the same price as the metro. Once the next phase of the REM opens (hopefully next year), the Mascouche line will terminate inbound at a new custom-built station with a cross-platform transfer to the REM and be restored to its former glory 🏆 12:30 Finally, if memory serves, they weren't planning to run this downtown after the tunnel was closed from REM construction, but some people made a fuss and said they'd rather keep a single-seat ride even if it took longer, so the crazy detour was implemented as a compromise.

[@MilesinTransit]

I was going to say that the VIA trip didn't require taking this line, but I forgot that you did take this to get TO the VIA station to come back! Yeah, I am excited on this line's behalf for when REM opens - even if you still have the wonky Mascouche routing and the crappy station placements, I'm hoping they can use the shorter length to massively improve frequency!

[@YoungThos]

@@MilesinTransit I think our main problem with frequency is the freight companies owning the rights of way, but somehow Toronto has figured out how to solve this so hopefully we can too some day 🤞

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

​@@MilesinTransitUnfortunately CN is pushing back heavily against granting additional slots to Exo across the single-track bridge west of Repentigny so even though Exo has enough trains to run way more frequent service they might not be able to get permission

[@vernondotson2975]

"...and now we've just stepped into New Jersey Transit." Or a MARC 4th gen car, I comment as I ride a MARC train

[@justinstrickland5382]

Was trying to check the comments if anyone answered why the quiet level is on the upper level. From my understanding, facilities that are ADA accessible cannot require wheelchair bound riders to comply with quiet cars, so whichever level they are present cannot be a quiet area.

[@MilesinTransit]

Hmm...it's a multilevel train though, meaning there's a middle portion between the two decks, and that's where wheelchairs would be. I don't think that would factor in here!

[@spirit7741]

Exo can learn a lot from GO and the direction its going in 😔

[@penelopeboivin3191]

i think that they consider the rem as their regional rail thing, which is why they're not doing a lot with exo, but exo could be sooo good if they actually improved it too

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

​@@penelopeboivin3191REM is not regional rail in the sense of GO. The farthest the REM gets from Gare Centrale is 30 km. GO has three lines that are over 100 km.

[@penelopeboivin3191]

@@OntarioTrafficMan yeah true which makes it even more confusing that the government sees the rem as an exo replacement, they both have different roles

[@EuropeanMapping]

Hopefully the service gets better once REM phase II opens. They'll cut the line at a transfer point with the REM, but I doun't think they plan to add more trains unfortunately. I have acutlly used that line once when I was on the north side of the island to go to the marche centrale shopping centre.

[@MichelFortin898]

The track between Mascouche and Repentigny was originally supposed to be on a side (north?) Of the highway but the then Repentigny Mayor, who had much influence in the region, said this was not as pretty as having the train pass between both lanes of the highway. Result: redesign of the route with addition of 2 train overpasses (going into & out of the highway median) and the Terrebonne station needing an overhead walkway to get to the platform. Project cost increased from 400 to 700 millions CDN $ but hey, it's prettier !

[@MilesinTransit]

Oh my GOD

[@MichelFortin898]

Moreover, at 8:35, the video says there are no stations in this densely populated area (Charlemagne)... well, a station was planned for there but got cut as a cost saving measure!

[@archangelofeuropa5142]

i rode this line when visiting a few months ago, literally took 3 hours to get into sauve cause i had to wait for 3 trains to pass in 3 different sidings, lol. was fun but definitely NOT worth it, so stressful when i almost missed my outbound train back to my hotel

[@johnhawkinson]

5:47 "Because it's new track, this ride is so nice. So smooth." I've wondered about this for a long time. Don't those automated track maintenance vehicles that go around shifting ties and the track geometry cars and all those things that separate Class 1 railroads from the others - aren't those things supposed to ensure that well-maintained older tracks are equally smooth as, if not more smooth (cf. Grene Line extension gauge error) than, new track? Yet…maybe that's not the case, but if not, then why not?

[@szurketaltos2693]

Old tracks in Japan are usually pretty smooth, and European countries are usually ahead of NA in this regard too for old tracks. So probably an issue of maintenance.

[@asdaneedsfunds]

14:50 it's not a pacer without the SCREEEEEEE

[@nicolasdulac4808]

At 8:30 the town you where passing was Charlemagne. Initially a station was supposed to be before the opening they canceled it

[@smwca123]

The birthplace of singer Céline Dion.

[@jonathanlanglois2742]

10:30 You don't need to be sorry. Montrealers feel the same way. The poor station placement, the long route, the low level of service are all things that have been criticized heavily by users. There's also the fact that there is a more direct route through Laval that they could have used, but we don't negotiate with the big bad freight rail. When routes get abandoned, we convert them to bike lanes. Its pathetic. Ontario can do it, but for some reason, we can't? We seriously need to get our act together. Toronto is building up their network and it is really shaping up compared to ours.

[@Kann0nballl]

C'est comme NJTransit, mais en Français!

[@ericroe]

Fun fact, the Canadian Rail network works in imperial units, and its speeds are in Miles Per Hour.

[@ExcellentChalsTransit]

What I like the most about this line are the station buildings and artworks, they're very clean and spacious. But yea obviously, some of the train station locations (obviously Terrebonne especially) aren't very practical and the train frequencies are REALLY BAD, especially since the pandemic since it lost like 80% of its ridership

[@nathanjiang100]

fun fact, railroads in canada still use imperial units! everything was built that way so they just never switched it. plus since there’s so much run-through freight with american railroads it makes operations easier.

[@Elliottblancher]

They have to since sometimes CN or CP diesels run in the States

[@nathanjiang100]

@@Elliottblancher that’s what I said, there’s a lot of run-through to America

[@matthewsmith9624]

The explosives plant make artillery shells!

[@nlpnt]

Montreal has a lot of carshare too. Fun fact; Communauto allows their cars to be taken across the border, they're a fairly common sight around Burlington, Vermont.

[@timectrl]

Finally people are talking about Mascouche line!

[@alk61695]

Not bad. Miles goes all the way to Montreal to ride New Jersey Transit. What a POOR BID!

[@alexseguin5245]

Eight trains?! Damn, I think it used to be six a short while ago! That's an improvement XD

[@acarr506]

Another awesome videos.

[@psychorabbitt]

It's Wednesday, and that means we get Miles en transit

[@subparnaturedocumentary]

hell yeah!

[@mariowartortle2628]

With this we finally end the lore of Haircut. He finally found a shop that wasn’t closed.

[@ccityplanner1217]

They probably run this into Central for operational reasons to get the trains there to operate other lines or because the yard is there. I reckon when Côte de Liesse station has opened that a couple of journeys a day will continue to run through, although it would be more useful to make them run to the airport instead.

[@adrncl]

That would be great. Have a commuter line that runs across the island without having to do downtown.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

I highly doubt any trains would continue to Centrale after the REM opens considering Côte de Liesse is a terminus station with a layover yard

[@SonsOfSevenless]

@@OntarioTrafficMan trains will not continue to centrale. originally it was promised that the REM mount royal tunnel would be shared with heavy rail but that was a lie

[@zacflynn1386]

The route that the Exo Mascouche train takes was changed a few years back. It used to take the Mount Royal tunnel to downtown making it much faster than it is today. Once the REM work took over the tunnel, they shut down the Deux-Montagne line but made kept the Mascouche line in service. They decided to reroute it into the configuration it is today, where it makes zero sense to take this line for most commuters.

[@fpfpfpfp2]

Unless you live right in front of the Mascouche station and work 9 to 5 in Montreal this train line never made sense for commuters even before when the train passed through Mont-Royal tunnel. With most bus lines in Terrebonne & Mascouche ending at the bus terminal in Terrebonne and the very frequent 19 bus line between the Terrebonne terminal and the Montmorency metro terminal the Mascouche train line never was advantageous compared to the bus. It takes 18 minutes by bus from the Terrebonne terminal to the Montmorency metro station and barely longer during rush hour thanks to the bus lanes on the highway. Back in the day they were supposed to make 2 train lines, the first one with a terminal in Mascouche passing through Terrebonne (near the bus terminal) and eastern Laval all the way to Lucien-L'allier station and the second line would have had its terminal in L'Assomption, would go through Repentigny and end at Gare-Centrale. However the government wanted to cut costs and decided to make both lines into a single one, making one long inefficient and useless train line instead of two shorter direct lines.

[@baseballfan99]

Thankfully in the UK we don’t have these big freight delays. The closest I can come to this would be Sunday long distance trains that take up to an hour longer due to regular maintenance works so a 2 hour trip becomes 3.

[@michaelsmith9590]

The EXO commuter coach interior shown, referred to as "New Jersey Transit*, appears clean and modern, although toilet for disabled is unknown. High platforms at station was a surprise. To have restroom access at a station stop would be a shock to a Tri-rail or Sunrail commuter train rider in Florida (Latest check on restroom at Fort Lauderdale: Tri-rail - Amtrak station still showed "Out of Order" notice, 26 SEP, 2024.). Should southeast Michigan (Detroit area) to Ohio (downtown Columbus) passenger rail ever be revived, perhaps such type of rail coaches may be considered, to also include some type of on-board cafe service (Tim Horton's?). In any event there are no no tunnel clearance problems since there are none. Thanks for your continued efforts for passenger and transit improvements from someone who may have to forgo driving a vehicle in the future due to age or infirmity.

[@af8312]

basically: building the REM fucked over and will disconnect half the commuter rail lines from the central station. How is this logical?

[@yaush_]

My best guess is because most commuters transfer to the metro anyway

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

It only disconnected one line. The Deux Montagnes line was completely converted to REM so it's still connected.

[@WhiskyCanuck]

Disconnects/reroutes two of the three northern lines (Mascouche & Saint Jerome), and directly replaces & greatly improves the other one (Deux Montagnes).

[@MilesinTransit]

The REM will be much more frequent than the lines it replaced!

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

​@@WhiskyCanuckREM made no difference to the St. Jérôme line. It isn't even on the CN network so it never went to Centrale in the first place

[@swimmln]

3 seconds in and I'm anticipating many corrections to Miles' French in this video.

[@TheBadCivilServant]

I liked it when buddy said he was waiting for the conductor to repeat his message in English. Yeah. Right. Good luck with that.

[@PromenadeMTL]

The new track was added with a highway improvement project. Most of the route is old track. This corner of the north shore had zero transit infrastructure and the population continues to grow. Quebec has a good record of putting a piece of public transit infrastructure and it changes the population. Having this line means someone can live in that area and commute downtown. So that is a win.

[@MilesinTransit]

Yeah, having the bones is good (even if the station placements are still awful). I'm hoping the frequency can improve once REM opens.

[@PeevedLatias]

I've ridden all the way to gare centrale before. If I'm connecting to a via train especially if I have a suitcase it's just more convenient to do it as a single ride compared to the transfer at sauve that has like 4 minutes walk and then another 5 minutes walk from bonaventure to gare centrale proper.

[@MrPhilippeBrun]

Good job guys!

[@trainluvr]

NJT never looked so good! (if you know what I mean).

[@Dan_Gyros]

What a weird line. The station placements are hella strange

[@uniontpke772]

Now it is time for a toilettes review. Whoo.

[@cameronarchibald7213]

Cool video. When I visited Montreal in 2023 I rode (a segment) of all the exo lines, including the entire Mascouche line. I even took the 30 bus, I guess there are only so many ways to get there. Hoping to get back for the opening of the REM west island section!

[@william-christophermiehe4845]

They are currently evaluating on possibly removing the Mascouche line, Mont St-Hilaire and the Candiac one due to low usage compared to the other two lines which are frequently used.

[@mariowartortle2628]

6:57 I like how after miles corrects his comment the “Y SOUTPDIADP PAE (ext.)” comment person says “oh sorry…”

[@GirtonOramsay]

I still refuse to believe the Metrolink ridership is THAT low, especially knowing it's as busy as EXO. They have made more improvements to the schedule recently and added the pretty frequent Arrow train to Redlands. But about half of the routes have similar or worse schedules than EXO. I could connect to Metrolink in San Diego County, but those transfers are far and few between, so I just use Amtrak Surfliner when I travel up to LA-OC region.

[@foxecho727]

Is dude wearing a Pan Am shirt? Nice! Part of my heritage mom worked for PA I worked for DL

[@weserman95]

You should ride the Barrie GO line its a "interesting" service

[@az5181]

at this point you have so much Canada/Quebec content you should call your channel "Miles En Transit" haha

[@TheOzzyMartin1]

kilometers en transit

[@drdewott9154]

Damn. Also like maybe its my European butt talking here but this line (Post REM connection) really should be running at least half hourly. And definitely get some station relocations. Also probably a good idea with a branch/extension up to Joliette.

[@JZH10000]

So I'm gonna need you to come to Denver and ride around on RTD so I can hear your thoughts. My car was totaled recently and I have had to ride busses and a couple trains everywhere, and it can get you there, just quite slowly, no matter where you're actually going. A 45 minute drive from Welby to Longmont is just under 3 hours on busses. A 9 minute drive turns into a 45 minute bus and walking fest. At least they're mostly reliable, I guess... unless you're taking the 92 bus to the N line, on your way downtown. Then you get to arrive at the station and watch the train pull away as you get off the bus. Then wait 30 minutes for the next one. 😢

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

are there stations along the loop if so, it could be argued the first station is where most long-distance commuters should change to the Metro-System (a sort of non-central terminus) whilst the loop is to join the communities along it

[@MilesinTransit]

Nah, there are no stations on the loop.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

@@MilesinTransit than that's total baloney from whoever decided it was a good idea.

[@meerkatmcr]

I'd be astonished if that felt as bad as a Pacer would on the same track, speaking as someone who has spent far too much time riding on them. It's certainly quieter - any video filmed on a Pacer in motion would need to be subtitled throughout...

[@ignacioverboten9382]

Big decision, when to give up correcting Miles on garr instead of gay-r for pronunciation of station because Miles ain't a-changing.

[@BTTT-c9q]

We need to see the interaction with Jan , we will wait 😂

[@smwca123]

If it's on time, which is anyone's guess.

[@RickyLeong]

I’ve taken plenty of pictures at Gare Centrale, sometimes using an actual camera. I wonder if Jules ran into an overzealous/bored/power hungry security guard …

[@juanmontull8550]

Finally a Canadian station with the right level platfroms should have 😅 Greetings from Spain!!

[@tsivard1]

"Blame Canada!" - Miles in Transit

[@mike4523]

Your friend has a Pan Am shirt, which used to be a big-time airline but now does short-haul rail freight in New England. It’s owner Guilford was very anti-passenger-rail and would regularly cause delays in the early days (2000s, 2010s) of Hartford passenger rail, for example.

[@jonc4403]

I've flown on a Pan Am 747. I heard somebody bought the name, kinda sucks that it's freight rail.

[@Ottawajames]

Oh, do one about the travesty of a boondoggle that is the Ottawa LRT project.

[@NickBurman]

I suppose that the train runs between Ahuntsic and Centrale more to swap equipment with the rest of the system than for its passenger potential. Opening these runs to passengers is just a way of making the most of what would have been otherwise a very long and improductive deadhead move.

[@williamhuang8309]

Today's soundbites: 1:46 Now that is a fun fact 2:57 Now it's time for a bathroom review (hmm) 3:22 Canadian Dollars (almost forgot) 5:10 Now it's time for a -bathroom- _Toilettes_ review 5:53 Keyboard mash 6:57 another keyboard mash (you've upset the commenters today) 12:02 Foamer meter 17:44 *_I'm trying credits now._* TM Today's GEMs 0:00 Ding (that was fast lol) 4:52 Ding x3

[@user-bx6dv7ck6i]

You should walk to Bloomington GO one day

[@rschambers9082]

This was good!! …and fun to watch.

[@MilesinTransit]

Thanks!

[@scotttheniceguy]

4:33 NJ Transit, former AMT, and also MARC purchased those multi-levels

[@brentlangasmiller]

Hey, Exo actually cleans their restrooms! On the NJT MultiLevel trains, they're either completely trashed or locked by the train crews. That's why I choose to pee at Penn Station before running for my train!

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

17:15 I filmed an entire video in Gare Centrale (about the abandoned platforms, though I haven't edited it yet) and nobody complained.

[@EdPMur]

@@OntarioTrafficMan I would love to see that, it sounds interesting

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

​@@EdPMurCool, thanks! It's a fair ways down the list though, there are a lot of other videos I need to edit first

[@JamesTerrebonne0194]

Hey you visited Terrebonne, PQ! Its on my bucket list of places to visit solely because it uses my last name. Kinda surprised it isn't a more common surname outside Louisiana (even then its still uncommon).

[@JamesTerrebonne0194]

Also surprised y'all pronounce it Tear-bonne instead of tear-a(or eh)-bone.

[@andrewweitzman4006]

I've been through it on scootering trips on side roads when going through the north shore. It's your typical North American car burb with maybe more plexes than usual.

[@daviiiid.r]

i audibly laughed when you got into the train and it’s just njt

[@alexisdespland4939]

a thier is a big university near parc station so it should end there not at ahunsic fort orange line but parc for the blueline.

[@Canleaf08]

Now try the same in the C and D secteur like Longueuil Panama to St Constant. Some rund down Novabus will bring you to St Constant and then only small airport shuttle like busses will do the transit in St Constant to the Railroad museum. Free of charge but the Pharmaprix will sell you a paper based Opus card.

[@diseasefreeforall]

Was that initial graphic a double Athens Georgia reference?

[@MilesinTransit]

If it was, it wasn't intentional!

[@mats7492]

Canadian units? Like how many poutines consumed per hour?

[@aksynth]

Greater Montreal excels in many areas, but traditional commuter rail isn't one of them. The driverless REM light metro, with its large park-and-ride lots and extensive feeder bus network, is a better fit for the Montreal suburbs, offering far more flexibility to transit users, particularly occasional riders. Aside from the electrified Deux-Montagnes line via Mont-Royal (now being converted to REM), commuter rail ridership in Greater Montreal has consistently lagged behind cities like Toronto and comparable U.S. cities such as Boston and Philadelphia. While Exo deserves credit for its clean, modern trains, the system's limited, peak-direction-only service is a major drawback. Additionally, Gare Centrale, the main station, feels outdated and bleak compared to most major North American passenger rail terminals, further compounding the system's challenges.

[@MilesinTransit]

Did an AI write this...? Honestly Exo's ridership is darn close to SEPTA Regional Rail - the service is terrible but somehow people still use it, as we talked about in the video.

[@aksynth]

@@MilesinTransit Post-pandemic Ridership: SEPTA: ~60,000 to 70,000 weekday trips. EXO: ~35,000 to 45,000 weekday trips.

[@MilesinTransit]

@@aksynth So Exo's getting 75% of the ridership on less than 50% of the track mileage and some insanely small fraction of actual service provided? Pretty impressive.

[@naturallyherb]

I've once lived in Montreal and moved to Vancouver largely because of how anti-transit Montreal people in general are. Most people opposed the construction for the REM for completely ridiculous reasons, also because they prefer a commuter train that runs only a few times a day, vs a metro that runs every 3 mins, and also people there are obsessed with cars! You think car dependency in Texas is ridiculous (it really is), but Montreal and Quebec as a whole is even worse!

[@MilesinTransit]

I'm seeing that sentiment a lot in this very comments section! I don't really get it.

[@naturallyherb]

@@MilesinTransit A lot of people seems to be either afraid of or downright hating elevated metro for no good reason. There was once a Facebook group consisting of Deux-Montagnes Line riders (a line that is currently converting to REM) and they just hated the REM for no good reason. And don't get me talking about REM de l'Est (REM to the East) because I will get triggered. I just don't get why people would protest against a frequent metro in favor of more highways and cars all around! (there's a video on Oh It's Urbanity, something like that, that talks about this topic, I encourage you to take a look at it)

[@javiskii]

10:25 same could be said of Madrid 🫠

[@nlpnt]

I have to wonder if there's a technical or contractual reason they HAVE to run at least a train a day into Gare Centrale over that temporary rerouting instead of just connecting to the Metro and/or REM at Ahuntsic.

[@MilesinTransit]

Some people have suggested there's an operational reason for it, yeah.

[@miangel02]

3:22 For a second I thought I wouldn't hear my favorite phrase

[@mattburke1869]

Homie looks like Percy Jackson

[@echo656zulu]

Hey Miles, big fan of your channel. If you're ever looking for more content, you should take a trip down here to Dallas/Fort Worth sometime. As car-centric as this sprawled-out metroplex is, we actually have a variety of transit options: -4 DART light rail lines making the longest light rail network in the country (or at least it used to be, not sure if it still is) -DART buses. Route structure was just redesigned a couple years ago -DART streetcar between downtown Dallas and the Bishop Arts district -McKinney Avenue Trolley, a free heritage streetcar that runs through Uptown Dallas -TRE commuter rail between Dallas and Ft. Worth -TEXrail commuter rail between DFW Airport and Ft. Worth -DCTA A-Train, commuter rail between Denton and Trinity Mills (DART Green Line station in Carrollton, suburb of Dallas) -Trinity Metro (Fort Worth) and DCTA (Denton) each have their own bus systems -DART Silver Line commuter rail between DFW Airport and Plano currently under construction, planned opening in 2026 Just don't come in the summer when it's miserably hot.

[@sdsd4139]

He should come in the summer when it’s miserably hot, and bring Jordan, because their adventures in misery are some of the best this channel has to offer

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

DART is no longer the largest light-rail system in the US, Los Angeles's Metro light-rail lines are now the largest! Beat that, Texas.... Also, the land use around DART stations is terrible. Caters too much to car-loving suburbanites

[@MilesinTransit]

I didn't realize LA beat DART! I actually have Dallas videos filmed, but they involve redacted people and I don't know when I'll be ready to deal with all the comments as a result of that!