Moona Talks About How Much It Costs to Make Original Songs and Covers【HoloID | Moona Hoshinova】

Someone asked Moona if she wanted to buy a house, Moona said she has been saving some money, but she always use them to make song covers.
Note From Osekkaiおせっかい:
I've always been wondering how much it costs to make these kind of stuffs, so I'm really curious about this.
Source : • 【Freetalk】i think it's...
Moona Ch : / @moonahoshinova
Outro BGM : • 1 Hour of Shirakami Fu...
Outro Angry Sui : • Sui-chan Wants To Hang...
Outro Walking Sui : • Suisei Visits Her Hosh...
If you wish to contact me, send me an email! Don't send them on twitter or instagram, because they won't notify me. If you have something you want me to clip, just send the link and timestamp, I'll definitely check them! (Hololive related)
Keep updated / 知らせ続ける
Twitter: / osekkai5
Instagram: / osekkai777
#hololive #holoID #moonahoshinova

[@Kanji_Kanji]

Moona is not an EN or JP with high SC's but shes giving her fans a lot of new projects, despite of her busy schedule and expenses, i will respect moona more from now on.

[@yagooatthegoat]

👍

[@aruthorcarly]

For comparison, monthly minimum wage in indonesia is around ~200$, so its REALLY costly.

[@yagooatthegoat]

Moona Future projects fund in sc coming👍📈

[@saury0626]

and she's very friendly with her listeners. if you have a chance to visit her talk stream, she reads comments a lot and talked to us like we are close friends, very chill vibe. talking while eating, talking about her (real) life. about indonesia, randomly humming and singing with a beautiful voice, anw yeah it's pretty cool if you have time to check her out

[@jeffryanantaadi]

@@saury0626 thats why we love Moona

[@laxur1312]

Moona could use her money to spoil herself, yet she spoils us. What a legend.

[@Vastfill]

She's doing it because she likes it, yes we're also spoiled for every cover she makes but most importantly she's having fun doing it so I wouldn't see it as her not using her money on herself

[@sometroii6561]

@@Vastfill If someone is kind because they like to see people smile, they're still kind.

[@prophetmuhammad3890]

Bless Moona

[@fhen_]

*mama moona*

[@Vastfill]

@@sometroii6561 Where did I say she's wasn't kind?

[@snailthelostcow63]

I’m surprised a lot of people are still taking this lightly. They aren’t randos that suddenly got famous by singing on TikTok you know. They did this as professional as possible despite being informal. Also, I think we should be happy as well since the superchat money is also beneficial for us, having these amazing songs and covers. It looks like it’s free, but technically, the fans are the one who funded those.

[@DexLuther]

To be fair, they kinda HAVE to do it this way. Any random person can stream any game they want or generally sing whatever they want. The downside to Hololive, is that it's an actual company. Because it's a company things have to be handled differently legally. It's why the unarchived karaoke streams exist. If they were independent, they'd just leave them up like the millions of other Karaoke or cover videos on youtube.

[@Ohimeshinso]

@@DexLuther you probably know this already, but once upon a time, Suisei was independent. You remember those days? Of course you don't, because the reason she joined Hololive in the first place was for financial support and marketing. She wanted the backing of a company so she could increase production value and have an easier time amassing an audience, and now she has over a million subscribers.

[@potatoxgaming9466]

@@DexLuther its more expensive without support from agency and the covers you can easily get copyright strike whether your in agency or not.

[@Absolute__Zero]

Cover/Originals are quite expensive to make. I remember Kanata spending quite a sum of her own money to make the 4 GEN original song o7

[@monica_g456]

Yeah and Aki, Mel, Choco-sen, and a few others have original songs that aren't so well known. It's kinda sad.

[@Ikxi]

Yea, the money partially came from the promise she had with coco, that if one of them oversleeps, the other has to pay 10k yen or something. Edit: 1 million yen for got a few zeros

[@ThanhNguyen-zg9bo]

@@Ikxi not 10k, 1 million yen

[@PanuJapanissa]

@@Ikxi The challenge was for one million yen.

[@Zefo_No]

@@Ikxi 1 million yen, which came to 10k$, which she said from the start that it wasn't nearly enough for an original song. She put quite a bit more money into it.

[@amdrandom]

I think there was a clip where Matsuri mentioned original songs could cost up to 1M yen (with MV) and was self funded by the talents. Actually glad to hear that Cover is now providing some budget for the talent's songs, seeing most of them have at least one now.

[@ericp631]

That's how it originally was, and why there was so few of them until the past year. matsuri was probably speaking from that prior knowledge. But I've noticed things changed in regards to originals. the increased output of originals by a huge amount this year, the increased distribution, and promotion, suisei's pre hololive music being put under c.c., bonking reacters for originals (something that never happened in the past), irys' (the vsinger) music being put under c.c. rather than their record label where their other vsinger is, and lack of anyone getting a record deal since sora, no matter how successful they are. It all raised my suspicions things had changed in c.c. with regards to music(basically they're turning more into a label).

[@asianpersuasion4901]

well makes sense. 1M yen is like $9000, and moona said $2000 is on the low end (approximate guess) seems relatively consistent

[@amdrandom]

@@ericp631 Yup, Cover is their own record label now afaik, seeing that both Suisei's and the Bloom album are being published by them. I think original songs can vary quite a bit in cost though, so that might be why Cover isn't paying for them fully even now. IMO this new scheme strikes a good balance between creative freedom and giving initiative. Looking forward to the next HoloFes with everyone singing their originals (Might even happen in the Holostars concert)!

[@Sechvy]

@@asianpersuasion4901 since Moona using local artists & want support local community too then $2000 for 1 project I think it quite expensive because every country have different "living cost" But if she using JP artists , well $9000 is standard price for 1 original song I think Suisei ghost cost twice if im not wrong

[@amdrandom]

@@Sechvy Yeah, though Indo's artists are also a force to be reckoned with, like Farhan Sarasin for example being a mainstay in both Holo ID and EN.

[@rubaiyatu]

First, a big Thank You to Ms. Hoshinova for being so candid about this. This sort of "behind-the-scenes" is just what the fans need to see to begin being appreciative of the staggering amount of work HoloLive requires. And, second: another Thank You, to Osekkai-san for clipping, editing, subtitling, and posting this; your efforts will help to educate all fans of HoloLive.

[@Carreau-sama]

Totally agree. We usually only get breadcrumbs about it. Like how Marine said she paid a lot for unison. Like a real lot and all herself so it could be as grand as she wanted. So we are left with no idea what a lot means to even ball park a guess. Well after watching this I can believe that it cost a ton. Just think about how the whole music video is so well animated and put together. Makes me appreciate the song even more.

[@anari234]

Also, fans know where the money from merch purchases and SC's are going.

[@jonashalvarihansen356]

​@@srkares Having done some work as an independent classical composer and arranger (nothing published but hey it's still work), the cheapest you can probably expect from an arrangement from "song with preexisting sheet music" to "reinstrumentated for school band" would be somewhere in the realm of $300-$400 just for making the sheet music and getting the physical originals. And that's *cheap*, by the way! The reason it's so expensive is because the knowledge and experience required for that stuff (and I'm saying this as someone with not that much experience) is ridiculous. You can have as many degrees in this as you want, but the practical experience takes literal years to gain. In addition, the software you use is *not* cheap. I get off pretty cheap with only one piece of software which when I bought it cost me $800 when converting currency, plus a $100 library with better sounds than the stock option. And then you need to learn how to use that software effectively, so you can do commissions that are good in as short a time as possible. A pretty normal timeframe would probably be: Reinstrumentation (Sheet music already exists): 2-3 days when accounting for graphical formatting Reinstrumentation (No sheet music): 3-4 weeks if it's not too complex, way longer if it's complex Arrangement (Literally rearranging stuff in the music, including reinstrumentation): 1-3 weeks if sheet music exists, WAAAY longer if not Composition (making from scratch): Completely dependent on the length. Some projects can take literal years.

[@NitsuSaiNeko]

I'm sorry I don't want to be the guy that corrects people about typos or grammars, but I would like to point out the appropriate writing is "hololive" or "HOLOLIVE" with no capital letters mixed in. I know it doesn't really matter but just thought you might want to know. Really sorry for interrupting. And yea, totally would love to hear more of the behind the scenes. Pretty sure these details are not actually restricted by Cover since many members touched on various topics by now. It's just in general streamers usually avoid talking about money. I'm sure if people are curious enough there will be price information lying somewhere online anyway.

[@ArkayeCh]

When she said covers aren't even monetized, that hit hard. Really lets you know those projects come from the heart without the huge profits everyone assumes they get.

[@dahmanmc]

I mean... Mannnn

[@ManlyPicnics]

The more I learn about the work and money the girls put into this stuff, the more interested I become in Cover and HoloLive as a whole. It seems like such an interesting work environment. Would love to just see their processes firsthand, maybe walk around and study it for like a week or two.

[@mrhailstone1810]

Yeah it seems very interesting. id love to see the budgeting side one day.

[@veryverykawaiiuto4831]

Would like to work there someday

[@SteadFast411]

Given everything we've heard from Moona here, as well as other accounts from the girls over the years, learning the breakdown of some of their bigger projects would be fascinating. Watame's first concert, for instance, continues to be seen as a colossal undertaking when you take into account how much new original content she had to create this year to even make said concert a worthwhile endeavour - all the while never really dialling back her regular streaming habits. Whilst she's both a longer serving talent than Moona with a larger following, the bugetting for her material - even WITH Cover helping out - getting the venue, marketting etc must have been potentially devastating for her if it didn't work. That's not 'do it for fun' money (espeically since it's very apparent girls like her, like Moona, have never been swimming in the cash, despite how often we see Red SCs and such, nor are they born into money), if she didn't hit a home run there, that could have potentially ruined a small fortune for her, one she may never have properly been able to bounce back from. And while it's true most traditional artists have to go thru the same leaps of faith when taking their music to the next level, Watame - and a lot of the HoloPros - don't really have the chance to cut their teeth (and save what money they have) on starting 'small' with little venues, smaller gigs and such, because of the nature of the technology that makes them VTubers.

[@reginaldrasyid2456]

It's basically an entertainment business. Same thing as tv show with celebrities here and there

[@samloveless]

I saw many comments talk about Suisei and Towa on how much they spend on their songs but guys, what about Azki?? She is literally all about music and doesnt even stream much to play games and get any SC from us regularly, she cant sing live like before either but look how many covers she did?? Some with great animations too but with so little views compared to others. If you guys have free time, please go check out some of her new songs too, her voice is absolutely beautiful.

[@blakefloyde]

maybe INNK Music have different budget scheme..

[@Zealoth1800]

Innonaka music , and you can guess cover is the one who directly backed her project along with suisei i guess, because she was once a part of innonaka music

[@durian111]

There seperate expectation and budget between holomem and vsinger

[@hoangthai9982]

@@Zealoth1800 No Suisei isn't backed by Cover as she has stated all her revenue (merch sales, album sales, views, superchat) comes straight back to making songs and cover.

[@qorqir5878]

hololive is idol agency, INNK is a record label and record label would cover up the cost for production thats why azki have many originals and the other one who have many original is sora and yes she is also under a record label but not related to cover like INNK its called victor entertainment

[@craftyearthythe2nd]

"Ask and you shall receive." - Yagoo providing budget

[@kiel_doesntplay]

Yagoo: if it's for my girls nothing is impossible!

[@Helmir]

ID could be getting some extra assistance there, but when people like Matsuri or Kiara(?) have talked about it they're still largely spending their own money.

[@yagooatthegoat]

Yagoo: sorry that is not how we do things here. We provide studio and industry connections but you work for us under our terms and conditions.

[@ryuukaito862]

Looks like yagoo would be a healer support like sage in hololive alternative fps game lol

[@janacoppola6722]

@@Helmir Marine talked about this a little. From what both she and Moona said, Cover has a budget that they can allot to the projects of individual members, but they can't give a ton because they need to be able to fund *every* holomember. So when someone goes over budget, like Marine did with Unison's animation, effects, etc. the holomember pays the difference.

[@leandrogoslean889]

So remember, if you want to hear your oshi cover more songs, open the wallet for them lmao well its expected anyway that this things cost money

[@Helmir]

Even if you can't open your wallet, absolutely tell other people about it and if they like it tell them to do the same.

[@leandrogoslean889]

@@Helmir Yes, that helps a lot too

[@rftaurust3025]

@@Helmir if you want to help them free, then watch their video without skip the ads, can be one of the alternative too

[@johnyruiz9787]

sometimes I prefer to donate $ 1 or $ 2 instead of watching the full ads, that way I find it easier when I want to support a vtuber so I don't have to watch the ads all the time

[@scarecrow2627]

To be honest I always thought that SC was just a waste of money and just a way for the rich to show off, but now I see it as an investment. And I feel indebted to these people for all the great content I enjoy for free.

[@peacechan4500]

It's almost like gacha, but with better return of investment. Some gacha even use the money to have better Billboards to attract other customers

[@epiccarrot88]

The dedication of these girls is amazing. Moona is a treasure, truly. I love the Turing Love cover for example, and if she didn't pay for it out of her pocket, we wouldn't have it. Moona deserves the love she receives.

[@faizalf119]

Yeah, also I felt bad seeing Turing love fell off from hololive top 50 cover that fast.

[@LullabyeNyah]

A lot of people don’t understand how expensive music and video production costs. It’s one of those careers and works that take a lot of effort and money to learn and make work. So round of applause to those involved and work their hardest to produce content. Both in and out of Hololive.

[@losersbecomewinners2043]

I have so much more respect for people that do covers now…. I never knew how expensive this could get…

[@Helmir]

Aye and the originals are even more. Makes what people like Watame, Mori and Suisei are doing all the more impressive. They truly have passion for their music.

[@mukti5896]

Prop to Sora, Suisei, Azki, Watambe and Calli.

[@cocytus9455]

That's why, when Watame released a lot of mv's this past few months, the fans asked her if she's short on money coz it's way too expensive and tried to donate her lot of money, but she said to her fans to not do it she can still manage. That's why i really love Watame, she loves doing what she does so i keep supporting her and her so warm kindness ^-^

[@anari234]

Watame wants a full fledged music career, it's not just a passion project for her. Hololive was in many ways her last chance to make it in the industry and she's taking full advantage of the opportunity.

[@YuSooKey]

@@anari234 This is why Watame and Calli get along so well. Both are in this for the music more than anything.

[@cemanz]

and here i hope ID Girls got the attention they deserved with such a low SC earns, low viewership, and low promotion, The girls still manage so well despite the situation. They are really underated

[@samoscar6672]

and she already bought a house, thats really some good management

[@unit-lost]

I'll be remembering this every time I see a cover by an indie vtuber

[@knightdengeon354]

That's mean, the more you support them, they will give you more again. So that's kinda ironic if you asking too much to the talents, but you not event watch them or even support them. Every project on this industry is not cheap at all. It's not only the project, they need upgrade PC and everything don't forget they need buy the game to play too.

[@samoscar6672]

this THIIIIIS!!!! PLEASE PIN THISS!!!

[@TheFadzreeq]

KZbin Indonesia must enable SC ASAP for simps to monetary support their oshi so that they can continue doing projects like this

[@neil1038]

Imagine... Sui-chan's monthly cover release... Just imagine

[@talkingdot]

im sure she has a high ROI though with all her originals as well though~

[@Helmir]

Watame put out 10 original songs this year. The 3D MVs aren't cheap either.

[@hoangthai9982]

@@Helmir while Sui released 5 originals mv and 1 original dance MV (+4 songs in the album still doesn't have MVs) and 10+ covers just this year. Just imagine...

[@user-vy6mi3ur4g]

Don't worry about suisai she got so much profit + SC her album top 1 selling in any web

[@user-vy6mi3ur4g]

And 5 original MV for 1 year is good tbh

[@MrHibugji]

One original song costing this much makes me really dumbfounded, it takes so much hard work and effort, it makes me want to support them even harder

[@Helmir]

Yeah Moona even low balled it. Matsuri said it's generally over 10k USD. For the song Kanata put together for 4th gen she said the 10k from their oversleeping penalty wasn't enough and she'd cover the rest. People like Watame or Suisei that are putting out a lot of original music it adds up to some pretty absurd sums.

[@sollertia_]

@@Helmir it's not impossible to create an MV with a couple thousand USD by keeping things at bare minimum, but yeah most people don't realize how much work and money is needed to create a 3 minute MV (let alone a live action one like mainstream pop)

[@igloo_igloo]

@@srkares I can only imagine the cost for Marine's Unison MV

[@JimzJimmy]

not just costly. she needs effort like vocal lessons too to match the lyrics and song. otherwise, it's not gonna work. if you count that also, that $2000 could be turned into more than that.

[@thejamesonthestreet]

Tbh, the amount Moona said is industry standard. My company even set around $20k for new song budget.

[@lefloffy]

I can't just imagine the cost for the Towa cover like Error...

[@Ikxi]

Or Palette with all the animation

[@ViniuauCP]

Unison was probably worth a brand new car

[@PO-xk3qd]

Then you see how the comet Suisei survived with all those covers and originals. Your spine wouldn't shiver anymore, straight up frozen

[@Zeik56]

Error is a really excellent cover, but I'm not really sure why you would single it out above others in terms of cost. It's pretty light on animation and production compared to some other covers or originals.

[@Helmir]

@@PO-xk3qd Watame too. She had some real interesting stuff in her originals this year like with Everlasting Soul or something like RAINBOW where they had a team go out for drone footage of real sheep & fields and did an overlay with 3D MV work on top of that.

[@sampew1605]

I’ve never wanted to superchat someone so much in my life

[@DanielDaAbadSukarno]

That why she love her peggy bank so much 😅

[@kordiark]

Really love Moona now, that she spoils her fans with her projects. She really does return our love and donations to us

[@Seiryuujin1]

Knowing this just makes Watame relasing song after song even more amazing

[@o.m.e.g.a1428]

Thanks for clipping this Osekkai! Always great to hear more details about what goes on with production

[@thejamesonthestreet]

As someone who worked at music label, publishing, and agency compant, I can tell you that the amount of the budget needed is quite on point based on the industry standard, in fact, for a cover song that will be broadcasted perpetually, it's quite cheap (ofc various rates applies). Original song will always cost alot, since it's gonna took quite a while to complete. Also, Hololive is not a label company, but an agency company. They do not have the responsibility to pay for any of their talents projects. That's how the music industry works

[@Windyyyyyyyyy]

This actually is something to keep in mind. Not everyone is gonna get the money to get a song or cover, but they do it for care. It makes someone like polka who absolutely makes a ton of covers impressive because she makes so many. Thanks moona for that insight

[@SSRB_Botandyn_446]

It isnt possible to break even with the song?!? Mad respect to Vtubers for that.

[@ericp631]

Rewatch the clip. She was talking about her, then went on to talk about the expense of it's cover or original(pay for it entirely or have cover pay for it, minus overage), there's also variables like monitized or not and of course how successful it is. As brilliant as moona is, her songs won't do as well as many of the jp or en singers. For moona it's a passion project, for calli she's making a lot of money from it(according to herself). So for some they can make money off it, but others they don't.

[@Serapae]

Original songs will make money if it takes off because they usually release them in other music streaming platforms, you can also monetize them. Cover songs have a lot of restriction, some even prevent any and all monetization scheme. However, cover songs can also sometimes draw viewer in with it if they're covering famous songs so it can be considered an investment of some sort, not to mention some members just love to sing so they make it because they want to.

[@saika2023]

@@ericp631 Calli's situation is quite special, she did a lot by herself, and also she was releasing songs before she joins hololive, so she also has a bunch of musical friends supporting her. Most of the other Holomem doesn't make much from their original songs, Matsuri said that it is difficult to break even with the original songs. PS: Suisei and Watame also did more than just the vocal in their original songs, and it really helps to cut the cost. All the info were from corresponding Holomem's chatting/superchat reading streams, but I don't remember the links. I believe there are clips of Matsuri and Suisei talking about the topic.

[@fdhlmr]

They usually make money from the superchat reading after the cover song is released. Just check after they release a cover, there's always a talking stream after. That's where they talknabout the song and where people can send SC to cover the expense.

[@saika2023]

@@fdhlmr In most cases, it won't be enough to cover the expense though

[@iloveplayingpr]

We salute those that supported Moona all this time!!!

[@trislele349]

I always wanted all the girls have their own original song, but. I guess it's not that easy Respect

[@faizalf119]

The key here is merchandising. Cover need to step up their merchandising game and make more millions so their idols can get more money.

[@yamiRic]

This just proved that they are full-fledged musical artist. The dedication and spending are amazing. I'm also surprised to hear that Cover would help to cover some cost for original song. Even if they paid half of it, it is already great considering how many talents they supported

[@durian111]

They will likely give budget for original song since it will be under cover music label

[@pocapele]

for cover song, the talents pay for themselves. for original song, YAGOO will pay (if the fees more than YAGOO's budget allocation after brainstorming with peoples who involved, let's say like 120% budget.. the talents will pay it for just a 20%, YAGOO pay 100% ).

[@Helmir]

@@pocapele End result is original songs are vastly paid for by the talents. Watame commented that she spent almost all of the money she made off of anniversary goods to fund her original music this year although it's probably all of it at this point.

[@ojougiggle4553]

That's why i'm feeling sad with some song that unrecognized by some people , they paid for the song :" )

[@sinisterpanda2738]

_Most of the money returns to us, the fans..._ *"All according to Keikaku~"* (TL : *Keikaku* means Plan) Joking aside, don't forget to stream *THE BADDEST* on Moona's channel ! ✌️

[@lastnamefirstname8655]

that's a lot. respect to id.

[@Vastfill]

Her villain cover goes hard, turns me into an M every time I come across it on my playlist

[@faizal188]

What's more amazing is the fact that none of them asks for donations. I think they will still make content even without them.

[@Sanzo_Himura]

これが、私たちがおしを応援する理由のひとつです。私たちは彼女たちを愛し、彼女たちは私たちを愛し返してくれます。しかし、忘れてはいけないのは、著作権があり、カバーしたホロライブの女の子たちに返されなかった多くのカバーがあるということです。そら様はその典型的な例です。かなた様は「ゴーストルール」も失いかけましたが、日本では著作権とフェアユースのシステムがこうなっています。だから、今のファンにも、これからのファンにも。今のファンも、これからのファンも、いつでも、どんな形でも、おしりを応援し続けてくださいね!!! P.S. 上記の情報に関して、あなたのお気に入りのオリジナル曲のプッシュにご協力ください。これは収益化されており、彼らが投資の一部を取り戻すのに役立ちます... This is one of the reason why we support our oshi. We love them and they love us back in return, but don't forget there were many covers that were copyrighted and never returned to the Hololive girls that covered them. Sora sama would be prime example of this. Kanata sama almost lost 'Ghost Rule' as well, but this is how the copyright and fair use system work in Japan. So whether to the current fans, or the future fans: Please continue to support your oshis, whenever and however you can!!! P.S. In regards to the information above, please help push original songs from your favourites. It is monetized and help them get some part of their investment back...

[@faizalf119]

I guess the copyright law for western worlds and Indonesia are pretty different and it can give them more chance to profit from cover. Or they can use public domain songs

[@qorqir5878]

man sora's cover, so many good thing got buried because of copyright, such a waste

[@waterteafan9264]

Its great to hear more behind the scene like this especially on Music creation, i heard some from Calli. Thank you Moona, it cost a lot for the songs and covers, truly respect y'all for the effort and cost for them songs

[@ellamedina3984]

I remeber seeing a clip of Matsuri being asked why she doesn't release original songs and this is also the reason she gave. Making original songs if she wants to release it immediately she needs to pay for it and it really is costly much more to HoloID which does not get much attention. Hope these girls get much more attention HoloID is really underrated eventho they usually speak in English...hope more projects will come for them..

[@gandit]

This is why i love Moona

[@sequentia1]

Me looking at my small bank account while hearing the cost it takes to make those amazing covers. Oghey..

[@takodachi8283]

So basically, everything you invest in Moona comes back again to you in the form of an awesome MV. She's amazing. Also, this explains why kaichou could buy that expensive bed, except for Weather Hackers, she never spent single yen on songs lol

[@rftaurust3025]

yeah, and that "weather hackers" is one of awesome song for me

[@takodachi8283]

@@rftaurust3025for most of us, I dare to say.

[@sukanya90]

Now i start to feel need to pay more respect to the talent who keep pumping cover/original. I feel like they work harder than the rest who just mostly for gaming. But i understand why the gaming type usually more popular.

[@desadoom4804]

Also remember guys, more money that you put, more percentage of the money that you get from it. Calli with her first EP gain money to produce the 2nd EP (with her favorite producers, mixers, illustrations, so more money), upgrade her setup (from the potato PC that was lagged with smoke to a 4 monitor high specs PC), move to another room, etc. The superchats helped, but most part of them goes to cover, youtube and the lovely taxes, stil isn't a "low contribution" but probably isn't enough to do all of those thing in a short period of time. And all thanks, first to her rapping skills and production skills, but also thanks to the visibility and free publicity that hololive brings to you, especially when they were the new EN members that all were interested on. So, great move by Calli and hololive for putting the eye on her. And well, is sad for the original songs that cost so much money and don't get so recognized so much by the public, but you know how is the life. I'm sure that that they will be happy if you check them out and you leave them a comment. The other day choco-sen was giving hearts to all the comments in her original song and mel was happy for making her original song with all hololive members (the ones at that moment at least, because council wasn't at the time of the production) , not always is for the money and views, especially when you are in a good economic position

[@faizalf119]

Some artists also willing to lose money when it means their ideas can go out to the world.

[@khaskarendel]

Thanks for this. I love when they talk about things like this, all "behind the scenes" things that reminds us there are people behind the avatar who works and that all that is more than only what we see

[@itainteasy]

Covering a song is different than sampling/using a recording... to cover a song you just pay a "mechanical royalty" you do not need permission you don't need the rights from the song writer, you just pay the mechanical to bmi or ascap or if it's a Japanese song it's usually JASRAC. The rate is statutory, meaning it's a fixed rate, it's not subject to individual negotiation. if you use an instrumental that exists on youtube, you need permission from the person who made that instrumental, permission or rights, this is subject to individual negotiation (this is the production cost she is referring too), and need to pay the same mechanical that they are paying because that instrumental is also a cover, using an instrumental is using a master recording, not a copyright of the notes and lyrics which is only subject to only a statutory mechanical royalty. The current statutory mechanical royalty is 11.2% of streaming revenue, for physical and digital downloads it's 9.1 cents per permeant copy. the following is pure speculation based on averages on her total subscribers and views, it doesn't account for the length of each video and how youtube categorizes vtubers to bidding advertisers: I can only estimate what she might of earned from 750k plays on the baddest, it's probably around 1,400 usd so it's very possible with production costs exceeded this, but over time it still might be profitable. Although the statutory rate is fixed, you pay it based on revenue (not profit) so if the video made around 1400 usd, the rights organization is going to collect around 160 usd for the rights holder, regardless if this was a profitable endeavor or not. Villain has 4m plays, so we can speculate around 7k usd, 11% of that is around 800 usd that goes to the copy right holder... that leaves 6200 usd, lets say she spent 4k on production, that is still more profit than a non musical video with 800k views. This doesn't account for what ever cover corp is taking.

[@serapiel]

Almost correct. In the US, you need to pay for a mechanical license per cover song you sell. The license will then let you sell and pay the mechanical royalty.

[@ximii132]

This..i think the same as you how cover song works since i read in some forum long ago.. But It was contradicting with moona said.. she said cover dont usually monetized which made me confused..

[@SoraRaida]

@@ximii132 Pretty sure it's because copyright doesn't work the same way in all countries

[@thejamesonthestreet]

@@SoraRaida the spirits is the same given they are all ratified from the same source.

[@rhenorayhan]

@@ximii132 Sometimes Japanese songs like VOCALOID songs, their producers provide off vocal/instrumental of it's song for free. But they have rules for using it as non-commercial which means it's not allowed to be monetized. I don't know about other songs, but at least most VOCALOID songs is like that.

[@ericp631]

This confirms something I've suspected for a while with regards to originals. I think it's safe to assume they put them on a tight budget. One thing I am interested in is if it's a flat rate across talents, or do they adjust it depending on who.

[@zinedinezethro9157]

Probably depending on the performance. Because again, Cover still has a business to run and bills to pay. They'll probably put more money in the members who pushes more numbers, and less on the others. Or just how much they'll be willing to give if the budget system is based on requests.

[@HS-ts5wf]

I think they definitely look at numbers. I don't want to say it like I'm downgrading other members, but there are just some of them wouldn't rake in enough money to cover the costs of an original song.

[@sukanya90]

I think they use flat rate but the talent need to provide for the extra cost.

[@LeCatte]

They probably use a flat rate, but because production costs vary per country, they could adjust based on that. For one, if recording is done with the vtuber's setup, cost could be lowered. Costs could further be lowered if it's cover's in-house audio engineers doing the mastering, or in-house musicians, or hired musicians, etc. There are ways to save costs, but to uphold a certain quality needs a certain budget. Anything more is self-funded. There's also the time factor, if cover's in-house audio engineers are busy, they need to hire someone from the outside.

[@StudentOfGod]

From what Marine has talked about with behind the scenes project stuff, they are able to negotiate the budget given to them through their managers, so it varies from person to person.

[@malmon3812]

man... after hearing this, i really wish i can send more SC to each of vtuber that I love. however, the budget constraint has limits me to send only a few

[@babanbo-sama2072]

Now, this made me sweat hard when I remembered the song release spree that Sui-chan did months ago. Both Covers and Original songs were coming out before you knew it.

[@FreyjaWion]

some creatures love to comment on the girls cover/original song like they're an edgy-expert song critics... without thinking what this girls went through to create one MV.... they need to change their attitude. (except if they're a hardcore attention seeker)

[@hohens7118]

Especially all those idiots complaining on Moona’s covers about the mixer and telling her to get specific names as if she has that kind of money

[@faizalf119]

@@hohens7118 funny thing is they're armchair musicians so they give recommendation without even knowing how well they work. At least when I recommending headphones or watches I actually have a lot of headphones and a box full of watches.

[@KandiKid87]

Ah yes. We donate, they create. Hehehe.

[@RaiKageRyu]

Very insightful clip. Good pick Osekkai.

[@hexaneko]

Even her Karaoke EN Unarchived, she paid for the Instrumental

[@iamabird6739]

you hear that chads?! The moon need our money!

[@angelquinones9201]

Thank you for the clip. I think this is the first time I have read all the comment in video. It is good to know this kind of things directly from the talents.

[@Pekovi69]

moona and pekora sachou is sugoii ❤️

[@aquaventus]

There are still people who thinks their songs and MVs were paid by the company. Not really everything. Thats why there are still some members without any originals. They have to fund their own songs. Coco was one of the luckier ones, not to mention she can afford the expense. Her Fansa cover was almost free, aside from the basic expenses all the music and MV work ends up being free because nobody who worked on it wanted any pay, so she just paid for the recording and planning. Suisei pretty much dumps her cash into gaming and her music. Official songs and sponsored songs are the ones the company paid for, due to obvious reasons. The company was the one that wanted the songs.s Covers and originals are mostly initiated by the members.

[@r3b0x91]

I’m amazed that minimum wage per 20 workday a month is less than 2 dollars a day in Indonesia. If you told someone that you’ll pay them 2 dollars *an hour* in the US, you’ll have some lawsuits on your hand.

[@johndewey6405]

The minimum wage used in this video is one of the largest if not the largest. The lowest one in Indonesia is around 1.77 million IDR or around 124 USD per month

[@nietzchan]

Well, the living cost here is also lower. Minimum wage is often calulated by respective goverment relative to the cost of living there, in ID case $10 per day is still considered adequate as per meal you an go as low as $1.5 each, rent a cheap small housing could go as low as $80 to $100. Minimum wage is just that : barely minimum, if you have kids you would most likely need to work harder. One thing that makes me glad living in ID is we have (semi) universal healthcare; it's not truly 'universal' because you still need to pay public insurance fee (which is dirt cheap, btw), though if you're from low income family it's basically free. It covers wide range of things, from dental care, mandatory vaccinations, insulins (It really baffles me how much they charged in the US), even asthma medications, and some cancers treatment.

[@faizalf119]

On the brightside, many foreign companies start flocking to Indonesian regions to open their factories due to cheaper labor cost. For example Central Java is having economic growth after Nike moved their factories there.

[@johnmaulana7027]

the reason why is so low if using USD to Indonesia Money is because Indonesia is still not fully recover from 1998 Economic Crisis that make indonesian Rupiah hit highest inflasion. if i remember it right 1 dollar to rupiah at time hit around RP16.000 (indonesian nominal for money always have 3 number behind.) before inflasion 1 dolar is Rp 2.500. so all this year goverment still try to recover from that inflasion. there time the inflasion decrease to 1 USD = 12.000 IDR. but now 1 USD = 14.000 IDR

[@tarodeculture]

Now I wonder how much it cost Mio to create Howling. That might be the most expensive MV in Hololive.

[@TheRealVordox]

PO

[@tomatomathy]

This clip and the Matsuri clip makes me wonder how much Suisei spends for all her songs, amazing talent and dedication. Also very cool for Cover and Yagoo to fund originals!

[@Volodymyr.Yermakov]

Suisei possibly have different contract than other hololive talents. So its hard to say.

[@iMyKiri1814]

Tbf Suisei and AZKi actively produces original songs and with how much each original song costs (specially for Suisei since she “hires” top rated and well known producers like InoTaku & MikitoP) i would imagine that both of them have a different / Altered contracts from HL. In calli’s case, since she usually produces the songs herself, I can see her also having a slightly different or a similar one to Sui&AZKi’s. Well at the end of the day, it’s all just a speculation and won’t change the fact that Vtubers really put in the money and effort to make good music.

[@ximii132]

Suichan said she spent all her salary from vtuber for making an album iirc.. so yeah im glad the album is success

[@hoangthai9982]

@@Volodymyr.Yermakov Suisei has stated that all her money (saling merch, ticket price for live events, superchats) went straight back to originals and covers. She basically went all-in with the highest possible quality

[@renzcentino]

Link for Matsuri clip

[@hexaneko]

I am just imagine Towa Palette, she can buy a new card with that

[@Nachtflut]

And Palette was paid for mostly with money from superchats if I remember correct. (Plus she had worked with the people that made the MV before and according to her they were happy to work on it, so maybe they didn't even ask for the amount of money they would usually ask for.) Though unless she herself tells us how much it actually was it's all just speculation~

[@faizalf119]

I'm just glad that hololive hq finally helped with some of the expenses. I mean they already getting millions from supa and merchandise profit. Forcing those idols to foot the bill for the entire project is Japanese old practice that need to be stopped. Also because of money I can see why they use Indonesian composer for many of their projects. Indonesian skilled workers tend to have lower fees so it helped with many vtubers with budget constraint.

[@spanikMuch]

Respect

[@user-rw7ov7er8y]

It's amazing to me that you know at least 3 languages and can translate from one to another while I'm just sitting here barely being able to communicate in my first language

[@Ikxi]

Speaking multiple languages can be fun. I myself can only speak 2 fluently but I wanna learn more, you can invest a little time each day and after some good *consistent* practice you would be able to hold small conversations. It can be a valuable experience

[@fdhlmr]

Ah yeah I just realized... Osekkai can understand Indonesian as well???

[@ultima214]

@@fdhlmr yeah Osekai is from Indonesian so he understand that language 😄

[@lildyo]

@@ultima214 damn I didn’t realize that. Truly impressive how many in this community can speak so many languages

[@megalodon6975]

@@lildyo well, for indonesian most of us are bilingual, speaking Indonesian and each respective local language (Javanese, Sundanese, etc), so if if an Indonesian can speak English than most of the time that person could be trilingual. In all of hololive Iofi can speak the most language, fluent in Indonesian, English, Japanese, Sundanese, as well as basic German and Korean

[@flambelk4489]

What an interesting clip! Thanks!

[@deepratama]

just found out this information, thanks for the clip

[@DragonxFlutter]

Wow. Moona's dedicated to reinvesting that SC money back into the channel. I'm impressed!

[@codecijs2498]

Not many people donating to ID unlike JP or EN so their budget is not that much. If you guys talking about Suisei or Calli why they can produce many songs? it's because the amount of donation they have is bigger. So Moona here really work hard and save her money (ofc the other girls also do the same) so she can make more song. She said she really want to make an album next year, I hope it can happen 🙏 AMEN *btw how many song that a talent need so they can make an album, 12 og ?

[@Sechvy]

Yup atleast 12 og song for 1 album For singles can 4 song or mini album between 6-8 i think She can enjoy all the money for herself but what she do is use most of that money for make a cover & og to pleasure her fans Thats why i love her so much

[@dinonido]

Originals aside they honestly don't have to include expensive visuals for covers everytime. One Suisei's recent cover feature only a still image and it still rack up tons of views

[@peacechan4500]

This whole thing of SC now seems like spending money to your gacha. But with a lot better of return of investment.

[@vitatreat9037]

Ossekai original song when? 🙂

[@lucasdar0sa]

Actually that's kinda cheaper than I thought it would be (it's still a high amount tho)

[@MakotoTheKnight]

It's also just the minimum amounts that she's referring to here but it's still not as high as I would've thought either

[@jon-unicorn-doxxer]

Probably because some of the music production on the Indonesian side are done in Indonesia, which is cheaper than Japan or US(for some EN members), especially most of them record their song in Indonesia,

[@lucasdar0sa]

@@jon-unicorn-doxxer That would make sense indeed

[@Helmir]

It is generally higher. Kanata's 4th gen song was over 10k USD and Matsuri said it's usually more. It really depends on the talent you're going for, what you can do yourself and what you're doing for the MV. MVs can be incredibly expensive.

[@ic3cream6]

Well, this answer some important question that I never ask before.👍

[@ArchusKanzaki]

Yeah about cover song's monetization. If you noticed that a song is covered by alot of artists.... its probably because that song cover is monetizable. That's why there are so much KING covers.

[@faizalf119]

That kinda sad though. I bet a lot of them have a lot of great songs they really want to cover but hesitant to do it because they don't have financial strength/return for it.

[@ArchusKanzaki]

@@faizalf119 Yeah but you need to remember that it is not them who make the term here, it is the original artist. Some artist are fine making its song cover as monetizable, usually its the vocaloid-type artists, but some are not fine with it. That's all.

[@kiryuunaga1olivians100]

See the money that we sent to them part of it they use to make to make Cover song that we can enjoy

[@jimwhite2049]

Please buy their original songs, it cost less than 2 bucks. For merchandises like these, they have to finance it themselves but they also get most of the profits so it really is the best way to support them financially.

[@Helmir]

Yeah when I promote Watame's music I just try to explain how if you want to support her that buying music is one of the best ways to do it - much better than SCs for sure. If people don't have money and still want to help listening to helps and recommending it to other people DEFINITELY helps. Especially if you ask them to pass it on to others.

[@Ikxi]

Some people commission artworks, buy gunpla, warhammer minis, others commission whole ass covers lol It's interesting that cover doesn't help them with money there, they probably help with finding and getting in contact with artists and such though. But also makes sense if the covers can't be monetized, from a business side of things it's not profitable. Kinda annoying they can't always monetize the covers, but also makes sense.

[@durian111]

Contract may differ between holomem and vsinger

[@StrikeNoir105E]

Also keep in mind the kind of legal quagmire that trying to secure monetization for cover songs would get into, given today's trigger-happy DMCA environment.

[@nietzchan]

@@StrikeNoir105E I got strike once for a song that explicitly permitted by the artist themselves; it turns out that it was some sh*tty fake-company exploiting DMCA by claiming DRM-free musics in KZbin. The safest way to make contents now is to directly use musics already in KZbin library.

[@Ikxi]

@@nietzchan Yea, there are fake companies that missuse the system like this

[@absalomdraconis]

@@nietzchan : Someone once pointed out that the best way to avoid that is to have a claim from the real rights holder- in the video I saw, they specifically were claiming their own stuff.

[@redrage9283]

*RESPECT*

[@Yeetuz.Deletuz]

Chad moona paid for them

[@djungelskog3434]

if moona ever has the time, hopefully her and holoID can learn a few of these skills so they can save on projects and treat themselves better instead

[@hohens7118]

In the original stream Moona mentioned that her Beverly / Again cover was essentially free since she did the illustration, MV and mixing herself.

[@chrisevans8153]

When Suisei and Calli have the ability to write lyrics, compose music, and produce music videos, they spend less money, but I'm not saying it's easier for them because it's a very difficult skill to have, and their skills are very valuable. But people who don't have those skills, they have to spend money on lyrics, music, arrangements, and music videos. And the more famous ones may be asked for a larger amount of money, which is a normal business practice.

[@breadtoasted2269]

Sell moona water! We will buy it. Just to show support..

[@droidmotorola3884]

calli and her rainbow superchats: "they are paying me to do what I love"

[@kimkim02091987]

Least you can do as fan, don't skip ad on their video if you cannot afford give superchat.

[@nuginity8211]

Never buy youtube premiun again then

[@chlpdf]

If you want a more detailed breakdown of cover costs the german vtuber JinjaDub has made a video called " Wie viel ich mit Patreon verdiene " (How much i earn on patreon) where she breaks this down (with en subs)

[@GoGetMarked]

I ain't gonna lie, that's a lot less than i was expecting. Music production is usually extremely expensive and i thought it would cost around the 10,000s to 70,0000s USD mark

[@hohens7118]

Moona said it herself, her costs are among the lowest because she usually commissions local (Indonesian) staff. That’s why she gives prices relative to minimum wage. For JP or EN, you can probably multiply it by 4-5x.

[@cemanz]

remember, Holo ID is the lowest SC networth branch they cant commisioned higher person in process since it will over the budget and ended up hurting their saving balance like she explained

[@sollertia_]

I love how Hololive is shedding light on the music industry for a lot of folks. If anyone thinks a couple thousand USD is high for a music video, keep in mind that all the live action pop MVs cost way above 10k USD just to film!

[@heraldyaxelevi8132]

One song cost more than my monthly wage LMAO

[@oshiro2955]

Damn that's a lot of Umaru, I don't think I'd be able to provide for 7 of them 🦝

[@emomales5782]

I laughed a lot since my monthly UMR also went to my lil sis.

[@edwardhaybell1938]

Oh how I envy those multitalented people, who can do all the recording, mixing, illustrating, animating, and releasing songs and MVs all by themselves...

[@xxxzzz9327]

everyone must simp harder.

[@arowanajember1976]

misleading information at 0:50 that is NOT the amount of minimum indonesian salary, that is jakarta minimum salary. for your info there are many regions with more or less half that amount for monthly salary, including mine. but i'm surprised, i thought it'll be much higher than what moona said but perhaps it depends on each portfolios that the prices can change drastically. moona always finds the best personnel for the price tho

[@peacechan4500]

But considering she is from Jakarta, most likely and UMR Jakarta is the benchmark, the amount is kinda accurate

[@Aldiyawak]

Your name contains Jember -- checks out. The point is professional music scene is *hella* expensive.

[@yuuki3343]

That's it lads. The best girl is... The one beside moona. 1:36

[@jimwhite2049]

Which is why most of them don't do it, only the ones who are super serious about it like Suisei, Calli, and Watame makes a lot of original songs. Matsuri also talked about this. I was impressed and kinda shocked by how many Watame put out in such a short time, she put so much heart and effort into this. It really sucks when they make an original song and it doesn't do that well, it really discourages them from doing it again. Suisei and Calli are definitely two of the more successful members in terms of original songs so them making a lot of them is not surprising. It's probably why Miko is still hesitant about doing her own solo live, she said she doesn't have enough confidence yet.

[@thetcaseaway4306]

YAGOO Best Girl Indeed.

[@RoarTheRapper]

I can see that. There’s producers out there who write instrumentals but unless you buy exclusive rights, which could easily cost a thousand, or you buy an original song you request, it’s really pricy. Couple that with studio mixing, that could easily cost close to the same amount. Get it ANIMATED too, yeah I’d say for a professionally produced song start to finish I’d say that’s a reasonable estimate.

[@Ohimeshinso]

And yeah, she's not wrong.. that nonsense is pretty expensive. Unless you're either REALLY resourceful/talented or have A LOT of friends willing to do free labor, covers and original songs can cost an arm and a leg. Sometimes literally... Trust me, I know. Once upon a time, I did that sort of thing. I don't any more since my old account was subject to orbital bombardment. It was especially troublesome because I didn't monetize covers, decided copyright wasn't worth it. Oh, also, my channel was yeeted because a company turned on me and violated our contract. I'm not gonna point fingers, but that's why. Point is, I used to make content so I know how expensive it is. Sorry for the mild rant XD

[@KingJH0510]

Checks out with matsuri previously stating that original songs take about 1M yen ≈ 10k usd to make