Moore's Patent Revolver (Swing-Out Cylinder)

[@BingBongFYaLife]

I am always astounded at the amount of info on each of the guns. The extensive stories or reasons why a particular weapon was forgotten is awesome!

[@Mrgunsngear]

Still looks like it'll run great.

[@markbecht1420]

If you think White's patent on the 'hole' was ludicrous, a little over a century before Watt was granted a patent for the crank. Never mind that it had been in common use for centuries. The upshot was may talented engineers created (and patented)many clever workarounds for turning rotating motion into reciprocating motion without paying Watt a royalty. While not nearly as efficient many of those mechanisms were later proven very handy in secondary roles on all sorts of mechanical devices

[@Pigness7]

I like how Roland White is just a recurring character on old revolver videos like this

[@Appleboxman]

It's the SAA ten years before the SAA.

[@fastdraw73]

Great video! I've only seen 2 of these so far and own one of them. They were originally a nickel finish on the frame and engraved as well. Unfortunately, the nickel comes off after about 153 years and it shows the brass frame underneath. Some were used in the civil war as well. They were much easier to load than the typical black powder cap & ball pistols of the time. Great job!

[@LastCaress7]

Nifty little wheel gun. I like it. I can imagine how cool it was back in its day to show your friend the latest and greatest moores patent revolver. A time when firearms where designed to be beautiful and efficient. Good stuff. Ian.

[@adrienperie6119]

I'm quite impressed by the fact so little revolvers used this design, this is actually a very smart way to keep the cylinder and the barrel aligned perfectly without the need for a wear and tear resistant, precisely machined mechanism having the cylinder swing out on its own. I'm no expert at all, but I'm ready to bet the accuracy potential of the design is quite high for a revolver of the period. By the way, for the Full30 thing, do you intend on continuing posting your videos on KZbin as well as Full30 ? The video quality is superior on KZbin, and the F30 player is quite sketchy at times, and is mostly impossible to use on mobile devices because of the high latency and low buffering speed. I do understand the money angle, wouldn't there be a chance though for you to get sponsors on KZbin to bypass the gun advertisement ban or compensate for it ? I'll add that even if you leave KZbin all together I will keep watching your videos even if it isn't by actually being subscribed since I don't intend on subscribing to Full30. This channel would still be awesome if it came on floppy disks through the mail.

[@ReachODST118]

Well no one used the design because it was patented, and thats why these weren't made long, because they were taken to court.

[@samparkerSAM]

Here in 2023, wow that theme music really Hits!

[@michaelw.6957]

Still does in 2024!

[@TomChucklehead]

Nice to see that thumb has healed up Ian!

[@JagdtygerII]

White's patent was later than some of the pin fire revolvers made in Europe and as it was patented, would have resulted in a gun which blew up in the shooter's face. Precisely, the old Colt cylinders were bored through, else there would have been no place for a percussion cap nipple, so at best, even if White's patent was legitimately the first, it would only cover cylinder bore without a taper, which is how some companies got around the patent, see nipple fire. Also, a necked cartridge would not have been prohibited either, as the breech end would have been larger than the barrel end. It is amazing how easily someone can pay off the right people and make even a "Non-Original" patent stand up in court

[@mysss29]

I wonder if they ever tried to sue Colt for the not-quite-bored-through cylinders percussion revolvers use. Or Whitney, or anyone else.... It seems likely that the patent had to do with the actual drilling itself? Which seems weird, since you could drill from both ends or something to differentiate your manufacturing process from the patent's. Idk.

[@JagdtygerII]

White could not sue Colt even if he had waned to. First off, Colt's patent for his revolver dated back to around 1836 or so. Secondly, White himself actually worked for Colt and claimed that he developed his idea from two "scrap/surplus" cylinders which he obtained from the Colt Factory. If Colt had wanted to, they could claim the patent based upon the fact that the cylinders used were stolen and the work done while White was employed by Colt. Personally, if I had to fight the White patent, I would have had a pistol made to the precise design in White's patent and had him fire it as designed. Whereupon it would have exploded demonstrating a failed design that was never intended for use with a metallic cartridge. This along with the European use of completely bored through cylinders for the pin fire revolvers, would have been enough to win such a case with a jury

[@mysss29]

...prove a patent invalid by violating the patent... okay xD Yeahhh I was wondering if Colt's designs predated White's, but I didn't bother to check...mostly I was bringing up the lack of clarity with respect to what "bored-through cylinder" means and what White's patent actually protected. Thanks for the correction! So, having a design declared completely unusable and claiming a design was developed using stolen parts are both ways to strike down a patent??

[@JagdtygerII]

I shall answer your last question first. My grandfather invented something in a shop owned by his employer, who tried to claim the patent rights because the work was done on his equipment and using his materials. When neither he, nor my grandfather would agree to a settlement, the patent office ruled that neither got the patent and granted it to a third party who had the same idea but a bit later on the filing date. Secondly a patentable idea must meet certain criteria; it must be useful, it must be original idea or an improvement on an original idea and it must belong to the person patenting it, either by creation or by assignment of the rights. Working from stolen parts and on equipment belonging to your employer can be construed that the invention was made for that employer, unless there is a release of interest. This is why many big corporations require employees sign contracts granting patent rights to the corporation during employment and often for 5-10 years after employment. To avoid legal battles over patentable ideas conceived and/or developed during the tenure as an employee. And finally, there have been other cases where an invention prototype was made specifically to prove that the patent did not cover a useful or unique idea. One cannot do so for profit, but as an argument in a patent case, it has been allowed---after all, should the person challenging the patent win, there was no infringement and if they lose, they already were in court over an alleged infringement

[@Ohgeeoknee]

dang, that was one blood thirsty vegetable peeler

[@Mygg_Jeager]

I feel like I should get this reference

[@TheAlexagius]

gotta love patents.....

[@MJuegaES]

An excellent legal practice.

[@goldendash1527]

Totally not abuseable. Totally. 100% fair.

[@joshuatree9358]

@@goldendash1527 Not nearly as fair as copyrights...

[@MisdirectedSasha]

Welp, I guess that just goes to show that corporate dickery is nothing new.

[@rogerwilco2]

The nineteenth century was famous for the Robber Barons.

[@Treblaine]

This is way better than it seems as the Colt Navy fired a bullet of equivalent ballistics but this revolver is so much more compact, quicker to reload and more reliable.

[@murphysmuskets]

Cool gun! Thanks for sharing!

[@RobertoDonatti]

Would that be the same Moore that patented the "teat fire" cartridge?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yup - that was his next endeavor after these revolvers were shut down by S&W.

[@pasquarielloanthony]

You made a comment 5 years ago!

[@brianpencall4882]

Ian, you didn't mention that this revolver is a seven-shooter.

[@michaelranasinghe3774]

its a pretty cool little pistol but i can see how over time it could become susceptible to timing issues.

[@MistaGrym]

I happen to have one of these as a family heirloom and found some .32 rimfire rounds I will post a video. Love this video and channel.

[@russell6341]

Well Professor Mcgregor you always astound and sometimes amaze and then there's times when you are a true artist and paint a picture your the Bob Villa of weaponology

[@petertoutanbeauregard1591]

Peter Schiffers, the author of "Civil War revolvers: myth vs. reality" test fired a Moore. His conclusion was that it was a lousy revolver. After a few rounds were shot, the barrel got loose. Furthermore, the rifling of the Moore bore was nearly straight so that the bullets keyholed as soon as they left the barrel.

[@Truthoscope91]

A cartridge revolver during the Civil War?! I had no idea, I thought all military revolvers were cap and ball during the war

[@bobeslami9770]

This, the Smith and Wesson, Remington, LeMat Pinfire, and Lefauchaeux reolvers were the cartridge revolvers of the period.

[@fastmongrel]

What happened if an importer brought in European bored through cylinder revolvers. Was that an infringement of the White patent.

[@StevenBeshears420]

Its amazing that little stick was never lost..

[@harryjoe860]

Steven Beshears who says it isn't a replacement?

[@daniellunsford4896]

Didn't Moore also make a "teat fire" revolver in .32 as well?

[@lawrencelewis1036]

The Slocom revolver was also made in Brooklyn.

[@MRMcLobster]

oh my god your thumb.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yeah, vegetable slicer accident.

[@koedpaabordet]

+Forgotten Weapons Eat bacon! Problem solved! :)

[@robertscott2210]

@@ForgottenWeapons Vegetables are what food eats. 🐮🐄🐂😁

[@diasirea]

Why was the pin fire, that also had bored through cylinders, not a factor, since the pin fires predated the Rollin White patent? I've never seen an explanation.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Rollin White only had a US patent, so it had no force in Europe where pinfires were being made.

[@JagdtygerII]

But doesn't patent law require the idea being patented to be original and predate other similar ideas patented in Europe? In the White Case, this does not appear to have been the case and I have read that he traveled to Europe, where he may have come in contact with the pin fire design. But I will give him credit for the knife edge falling block patent which was used so successfully by Sharps in their rifles and carbines

[@breakawaymotorsports]

Hmm. I thought the Bacon #3 revolver was the first swing out design.

[@Halinspark]

We hear a lot about how older guns were relatively inaccurate. I wonder how much of that is due to the tiny sights that seemed to be popular. Avid hunters didn't seem to have as many issues hitting targets, where as most soldiers dont ever get the same level of experience with firearms.

[@pommel47]

It is a shame Rollin White gave Wesson exclusive rights instead of allowing anyone to use his patent for a fee arrangement. It would have been interesting to see what various methods of new revolver designs would have emerged. Especially with the insatiable need for arms to fuel the Civil War.

[@Sladey93]

I would love it if you could do a video of BREN gun at RIA.

[@amsoho75gr]

m1 thumb?

[@richardlinneman594]

I was wondering the other day if any gunsmith had bored through a cylinder conversion before the patent ran out. I then happened on this video. Still wondering if any gunsmithed colts out there had it done?

[@rmax2]

Damn, that thumb looks like ya got it caught in a Garand!!! 😳

[@dmaratb]

Ian, can you adjust intros volume it's just too loud, thx

[@JoeDebono]

dmaratb the actual problem is the low volume in the rest of the video.

[@imajeenyus42]

I really love your videos of these old guns, but it would great to see some dummy rounds to get an idea how the action works (not so much for this revolver, but for some of the other unusual designs you've covered). I guess though it's difficult to have a sufficient range of sizes of rounds to have one that fits.

[@Qingeaton]

Are there any reputable companies making .32 rimfire cartridges to spec for these types of old guns, or do folks handload, or not fire them mostly? I believe my neighbor said he had Great grandpa's .32 rimfire and maybe 7 rounds...... he wouldn't ever chamber one because you can't find them. That seems kind of sad.

[@frostfirei]

Always, read the fine print.

[@peterpayne2720]

That is a fine looking revolver though one thing I always wonder is why did it take so long for manufacturers to create cartridges. Over the course of centuries they had all the materials and features. Why take so long to advance firearms technology? Still, that's a handy little gun.

[@lukasdelmondes197]

Great video

[@elderwaters9570]

how many shots in the cylinder and did it have a safety?

[@crasy4lifes]

i would love to own this, also i think the idea was very good for the time if you compare to the m/1860 colt or m/1858 remington that was sold at the time, Does Rock island auction ship overseas? here we have the same rule to own these as in the us.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Call or email them just to be sure, but yes - they will ship overseas as long as the item you're bidding on is legal to own and import where you live.

[@xenoxols2527]

Why do so many old revolver seem to be left handed?

[@Josh-gg6ct]

Because they wanted to do the more complex bit, reloading, with the dominant hand. You fire it with your right hand and transfer it to your left for reloading.

[@dan98996]

How many rounds does it hold?

[@tony76484]

Ok so if mine says "d moore" and that's it, it's pretty Smith and Wesson?

[@bobeslami9770]

With such a cool and most likely popular revolver, Moore and Smith and Wesson should have shared the profits.

[@txwingnut62]

Love these historical gun examples. Almost seems like you should be wearing the white gloves to protect them. Saw the comments on your hair (don't cut it!) but I was impressed by the "Custer" facial hair. Great channel, love the history and oddities.

[@davidstegman8147]

How rounds did it hold? 6? 7? or 8?

[@tony76484]

7

[@dingwon]

Ian reminds me of Guy Fawkes

[@Nullrick]

Fine looking revolver indeed. However - what happened to your thumb, man? Get struck/caught under a hammer? Hurts just looking at it.

[@Googledybunkers]

Did the Moore company survive tho....woulda been a bigger kick in the teeth if they went on to find some more success

[@HidingAllTheWay]

Everything aside it's a really beutiful gun.

[@Anibal677]

was Iver Johnson the first one to make a efective swing out cylinder revolver with simultaneously ejecting cartridges?

[@lewisgreenway5065]

After seeing what some guns sell for I am surprised this one did not make more money, also i would have thought a great gun to make replica of even if chambered for a c/f cartridge.

[@liammeech3702]

I guess it was allowed to bring your own pistol to the front then?

[@anter176]

I'm not munitions nor an ballistics expert and it's not exactly on topic but couldn't you make rounds that are longer? like a 5.56x90 with a bit longer bullet? it'd look pretty fucking silly, but still that'd be one fast i bet.

[@zendell37]

Interested in a longer bullet? Look into the Russian underwater assault rifles and pistols. The assault rifle looks like the love child of an AK and a spear gun.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

In designing cartridges, one important element is balancing the length and diameter of the case. Taking a small diameter case like the 5.56 and making it very long will result in poor powder burning characteristics.

[@bellelavictorie61]

anter176 Indeed. Shorter cartridges are more efficient and economical. The longer you make the cartridge, the more power you get, but a lower percentage of the powder burns. After a certain point, you add 200% more length to gain 10% more power and burn only 60% of the powder you put in there. The numbers aren't real, but the idea is the same. The gain for the cost is not worth the trouble. You can see the general principle in action by comparing different varieties of .45 rounds from .45 Colt to .45-70 govt , .45-100 Sharps, and .45-120 Sharps .45-70 Govt was noted to have the most gain in power while remaining borderline economical.

[@stevenveltrie1868]

Cool little gun. OK, Ruger now that you did the "wrangler' , do this.

[@korbetthein3072]

Probably holds too many rounds.

[@jagervw]

seems like this is left-handed...

[@beargillium2369]

They invented the stylus in 1861, who knew 😂

[@bobeslami9770]

I heard it was invented in 1859 for the new .32 rimfire.

[@adrianlarkins7259]

By 1860 the rim fire cartridge was well established as demonstrated with the Henry rifle in 44/40 caliber. Here we have a "modern" revolver of the same period and yet the cap & ball persisted right through the Civil War.

[@99dsm1]

No, the henry was in a rimfire round. The 44-40 came out in1873.

[@dragan2324]

The idea of allowing someone to patent the concept of making a hole in a piece of metal is ridiculous, I'm glad Rollin White got screwed over too at least. Seems like the type of guy that would be fun to kick in the balls if you had a time machine. Edit: His Wikipedia page is a good laugh, the opening paragraph just roasts him on his bad pistol design without making any mention of his business or patents

[@therugburnz]

Wow Moore got shrewd. He has to pay for the enforcement of the patent yet Wesson got the already manufactured guns leaving Moore only the per gun manufactured fixed royalty.

[@skynyrd7411]

I never understood the point of patents.

[@AlaskanFrontier1]

Before it started getting abused it was and still is to protect your hard work, ideas, and inventions because after all Moore simply stole the idea for his own economic gain. Had he just made a few for himself and friends there wouldn't have been anything wrong

[@ForgottenWeapons]

The rationale for patents is to encourage innovation by giving inventors a legally-protected monopoly on their new ideas for a few years.

[@Molo9000]

There often is a "second mover advantage" to innovation. The innovator has to spend time&money developing new technology, but a comptetitor can just copy the technology for free. The copycat therefore had lower costs and can sell the exact same product for a lower price. Patents are a very effective way of encouraging innovation. Shame the patent system hasn't kept up with the speed of 21st century technology development.

[@SONOFAZOMBIE2025]

Imagine a new type of battery that is 1000 times more efficient than anything today. Does the inventor deserve some time to make some $ from his invention? That is what a patent does.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

***** What makes this particular case more interesting is that the actual gun design that Rollin White came up with was terrible. It was still a muzzle-loader, but with a capability to access the chambers from the rear in case of misfire. It was never produced, and it had no advantage over the mainstream guns being made at the time. However, it happened to use drilled-through chambers, and he happened to include that feature in the list of patent claims. Colt turned down the opportunity to use the patent because the gun was so bad; but Wesson happened to notice the detail of the bored-through cylinder when he was starting to work with the brand new rimfire cartridges.

[@arrowman42]

Can we braid your hair please?

[@GetTheFO]

Definitely seems a little on the weak side of older revolver designs.

[@mikenowicki466]

Hi Ian, I had a quick question for you. Do you have any idea where I can by .22 Long ammunition. Just to clarify not long rifle but just long. I have a .22 pump from 1911 and I sadly can't shoot it. Thanks, Mike

[@mechadrake]

yay for patents and the patent houses issuing patents for fundamental things... Even the internet is patented by some greedy person. Nice gun and majestic hair!