Moot Three CNC Machine SBR20 Linear Rails / SFU1605 Ballscrews

[@EducatingSavvas]

Bill Of Material, Stages Guide, CAD Model, DXF Plate files and STL 3D Printed components are available to buy from my website: miscpro.com/product/moot_three-cnc-machine

[@hempeltorsten]

Hallo, sind die Pläne in mm oder Zoll ? Danke sehr viele schöne Videos. 👍👍👍

[@EducatingSavvas]

I design everything in millimetres.

[@miladfozooni3371]

What is the cad software name ?

[@maximus65656565]

@@miladfozooni3371 Fusion 360

[@mulholla]

Really nice build! I built a similarly designed machine about 5 years ago and one thing that took me ages to find was that the rails came lose on their own aluminum profiles. I highly recommend going through and tightning down the rails to their profiles before assembly.

[@EducatingSavvas]

Oh no, so it would be sensible to locktite each fixing. 😅

[@heavyweather]

I once wanted to build a cheap CNC and bought 1900mm SBR20 rails. Sold them and exchanged them for 2100mm HGR25 for only 100€ more. Don't save on the rails but thingsilr PSU can be very cheap. Bought two old cisco 3000w/42V PSUs for 16€ each... Also bought a set of used SBR 20 rails before and then sold them with 30€ profit again. If you are watching the used market lots of deals can be had.

[@EducatingSavvas]

I think if you can spend a little more it is worth it but everyone has their own budget so hopefully this can get someone started or thinking about making their own machine.

[@UberAlphaSirus]

2:10 Reminds me of my engineer mate yelling at his employee who we will call Sav. Sav had the job to bandsaw cut 4"x6" ally bars into 500 10" ish blanks for the cncs. My mate comes out yelling, Sav, for christs sakes, can you please just gently push the bar to the stop, every time you whack into the stop you are moving it a thou, the last one will be a bloody inch longer than the first one! Sav said, don't you mean 1/2" longer. My mate said, NO BECAUSE YOU DOOOOO IT F'n TWICE SAV!!!!

[@pmsilvei]

LMFAO 🤣🤣🤣

[@EducatingSavvas]

And that was my small hammer 😅

[@PiefacePete46]

Great video, as always! This is not intended as a criticism, rather an observation after spending time with my grandchildren around machine tools: The additional extrusions along the sides of the machine are the ideal place for an inattentive person to rest their hands, placing fingers in danger. The drag-chain does mitigate this risk on one side. Ironic really, since they are there as a safety feature!

[@EducatingSavvas]

I think you may have a point. A scary thought. I think an enclosure is always the safest option.

[@NINEWALKING]

That threaded hole in the middle on the side of the carriage is the place for the grease nozzle BTW. SBR rails are that way and unlike HGR and ballscrew nuts that get grease nozzle attached from the one side.

[@getenlightened]

This is fantastic, thanks so much. I plan on building a similar sized CNC with essentially the same linear rail system. But mine will start out with a wood frame and it won't end up nearly as precise as yours. But I figure I have to start somewhere. That precision square is huge! Thanks again.

[@HyperionBadger]

7:35 THANK YOU. I can't tell you how long I've been looking for this. Not one SFU1605 product listing out of thousands and thousands has that part named correctly. A circlip or retaining ring. They all just call it a spring lock. Which is exactly what it's not. Unfuckingbelievable.

[@EducatingSavvas]

It is amazing how little information is sometimes available around products online! Google image search can sometimes help.

[@HyperionBadger]

@@EducatingSavvas trust me i pulled out every trick in the toolbox. I am a master Googler, so this one was really pissing me off.

[@tomjanikowski1121]

This could be nice machine if alloy plate were used instead of plywood. Well documented.

[@RoboArc]

Plywood is fine, I use ply wood on my CNC frame and I'm able to take 4mm cuts with a 1/4 endmill with a 500w spindle. Mostly with these machines all the worl is done at the endmill, the better spindle you have ( fast it spins) the better cuts you get and the less cutting forces on the tool head assembly.

[@pmsilvei]

Feels so good to design and build a CNC router. 😬 Nice build!

[@flippingwoodforcash9130]

I did enjoy the challenge

[@RoboArc]

My wallet didn't enjoy it 😂

[@davidc1570]

"If you don't have the occasional blunder while CNCing we'll your not mortal" that made me laugh but so true. Better on a hobby CNC costing a few hundred than a CNC costing many thousands. I was a mechanical engineer for 18 years but now been working in IT for near 17 years. Bought a 3040 with 800w VFD off ebay and a Prusa 3d printer to have some fun using Fusion 360 :-)

[@JUANG0MEZ]

Es impresionante lo que hace este man👍👍

[@daver.2871]

"I found my... nipples. I have two of them as most people do." Man, if that wasn't the dryest delivery I've ever heard! Well done mate. And great video too. Had some useful info for me. Heading over to your website now to take a look at your plans.

[@iHayri1]

Looks great Savas, I am slowly gathering parts for my CNC Lathe, pretty excited about it, as it is something "new" for me than building Routers and Mills. Happy New Year 🙂

[@EducatingSavvas]

Can't wait to see your CNC lathe build! Happy new year too! :))

[@MarionMakarewicz]

Really nice work. Glad to see you post again.

[@EducatingSavvas]

Thanks. It's been a while!

[@iforce2d]

Where have you been bro?

[@Imba-gt7qi]

Nice work, i plan my cnc, with hgr20 + sfu1605 (actually same price than a set of sbr20 with sfu1605) a 700mm set for 78 euro, seems nice. Work area will 50-50-15 cm (limited space in my workshop). What i dont get is: how do you sync the two Y-axis, so if reference Y will square to X? I use an 5 axis control, where one axis is slave-mode, you can make G-Code to sync/adjust slave-axis. But you need two limit switches in Y1 und Y2 that reference to a square.

[@berendlucasvanderweide]

Nice machine you've made! What your measuring at 23:48 isn't squareness, (i've seen it done like that before many times) it's only measuring the variance in thickness of the moving Z part; the proper way to measure an axis like that is to mount the measuring clock to the moving part of the Z and measure against a square.

[@EducatingSavvas]

Damn it - you are right. I also just modelled it in CAD to double check. I think I confused myself because if I had trammed a long parallel shaft in a spindle, and the z axis was tiling along the y axis - the tool would travel back and forwards on either the up or down z movement. Which I has done and checked on previous machines. But because I was being lazy I just assumed the same was true for the Z plate. I stand corrected.

[@berendlucasvanderweide]

@@EducatingSavvas and when using a shaft in the spindle, i like to turn the spindle by hand to average the possible runout on any height of the shaft.

[@NK-yz7qr]

I'm trying to find where to get the aluminum channell that you use for the frame. I don't know what that T excrusion is called or where to get it. Thanks. Great build, You made it so clear to understand. Other builds, people are overwhelming.

[@talegunner4414]

Doesn't your automotive store have the grease fittings? In the US we call these zert fittings. What an outstanding job. Too bad I don't have a CNC or 3D unit to cut the additional parts needed. 😁

[@WPGinfo]

Hi, Nice build! Have fun!

[@almostanengineer]

I’m pretty certain KJN also do hole milling too, though I’ve never used that service personally.

[@EducatingSavvas]

Yep they do - generic hole milling at either end of the profile, and will accept custom machining as well - although that can be more expensive.

[@almostanengineer]

@@EducatingSavvas the expense can sometimes be worth it if your doing your first machine though, I can imaging drilling these with a hand drill 😳

[@tasso6196]

nice work, what speed can you get with setup?

[@EducatingSavvas]

It's been so long I can't remember the exact numbers - but it fast enough to not feel like you were waiting long.

[@Marmotious]

I would love to build one of these but have no mechanical skills or and idea what I'd do with it 🤣 "I have to grease nipples, as do most people" you're killing me!

[@manitoulinmakers849]

How did you not lose the single ball bearing that always screws us all over?? im always so scared to even handle them before they are on the rails.. You have ball bearings of steel my man. Great build, I am building this as i type this. so far so good. trying to experiment with using some 3/4 inch cast acrylic for most of the plates on it. where did you get the material you used? , it seems heavy duty as well.

[@DimasKurniawan]

hey bro, can SBR20 linear rails that you using to cutting alumunium ? Strong enough ?

[@gulshankapoor8924]

Please post the list of materials used in the machine and source from where one can buy, that would be fine. Anyway good job done by you hats off to you for sharing your experience. Thanks

[@EducatingSavvas]

The bill of material with guidance notes is now available with the purchase of the plans on my website.

[@UberAlphaSirus]

Looks really good. I am suprised how ridged the other machine is using duramat or whatever it's was called. I really must clear the shed out so I can use my toys. The lathe is still in my kitchen, :D! I have teflon type bearings on my 3d printer, they made a huge difference. but on a cnc mill, I think the cutter will drown out the silence of them.

[@EducatingSavvas]

Me too but it is a small machine which helps. Valchromat which is a synthetic hard cheese is a great material. I'd like to do some drawing with this machine as well. I can't believe you still have your lathe in your kitchen. 😂

[@UberAlphaSirus]

@@EducatingSavvas I still expected the crash you had at 1:19 to look worse on the x than the y. So them gantry side plates are more rigid than the nod flex. It's bloody heavy, lol. Tubalcain just got given near the exact same. Hoping he does another vid on it and maybe answers some queastions I asked.

[@rdelectromach4718]

very nice design

[@flippingwoodforcash9130]

Love my Cnc

[@BinoyJacob992009]

What's the height of right and left plates.

[@PeterK6502]

You should not use spring couplers to drive your ball screws if you want accuracy.

[@EducatingSavvas]

The jaw couplers are definitely better but more expensive. But as you can see the motors I've used are fairly small, and this should mean my max speed and max instantaneous speed changes will be low enough to not cause noticeable problems.

[@jacobnovi]

Hello everyone. I assembled the cnc machine, installed mach 3, some demo version, and the program does not recognize the entire G-code image. Is it because I don't have a purchased program? Everything works on the machine, but it does not recognize the entire project. What could be.

[@pcbwaycompany9941]

that's really impressive!

[@tuanquynh0508]

Do you have plan replace plates wood by aluminum?. For wood did you meet issue loose ?

[@EducatingSavvas]

I like the ease of cutting birch ply or valchromat sheets, and the design challenge associated with those materials.

[@brainlesspeke]

Anything you would do different now? Im wondering to buy plans for this :)

[@mitch3360]

Bonjour Très beau projet ! Quel espace avez vous mis entre les guides de l'axe X et l'espace entre le bas du portique et la base du plateau martyr svp ?

[@3dprinting4life10]

The link for the plans I wish to purchase for the Moot 3 seems to be not available can you check please. regards RobUK

[@robviggers854]

SORTED

[@nsdo72]

very well done - do you have any issues with stiffness in Y-axis? Could rotation of linear bearings cause Y-axis to deflect?

[@bill4639]

I will say this: aluminum has a high rate of thermal conductivity. With all things the increase in temperature comes an increase in size, and thus distortion. You simply can’t get “high” accuracy with aluminum frames based on this constant alone. Granite, epoxy concrete, and steel will give you superior rigidity for machine frames. I understand that will increase the weight, you just need to ask yourself if your priorities lie with precision or light weight.

[@MrBigde2012]

Excellent work... Thanks for your video. What kind of material is that colored MDF.... What is the name of it.

[@joecnc3341]

Great video! I have previously built a 2'x4' CNC Router, but I want to build a 4'x4' next. I like your design.. Do have much of a problem getting sawdust into the linear rails? Or does the vacuum shoe keep that to a minimum?

[@EducatingSavvas]

If you use dust extraction at the source of cutting it will be be minimal, but you will have to do periodic cleaning as good practice.

[@stephenprescott8105]

Great video..thank you !!!

[@paulb8264]

Are you worried about chip build up on the stops for the Z axis? Could they possibly cause issues if the machine gets rehomed between operations/setups? Or does the tool homing solve that issue?

[@EducatingSavvas]

I think with any machine, you should have a schedule of maintenance and cleaning. Also I would always use dust extraction. A hood which isn't installed for the video would collect a lot of the debris while milling so I don't think it'll be an issue. But an air feed could be installed to blast the contact points.

[@imqqmi]

How is it that when you crash through aluminium you're able to cleanly cut through by accident and when you're having an actually cut you want it's a bloody mess! JK! Nice build! I've reinforced all the axes with either a steel square tube or 30mm aluminium tooling plates. It helped stiffness a great deal.

[@EducatingSavvas]

I don't know, but I should buy some lottery tickets to see how far my luck lasts. Probably not very far. Lol.

[@homeselfmade6286]

Great, thanks! Sensorless homing: do you expect issues with this when it's running? Or can you set the drivers to a different mode after homing to avoid false triggering during runs?

[@EducatingSavvas]

From what I've experience from using sensorless homing on 3D printers - it's pretty accurate. On the duet the sensorless homing and stall detection are separate commands so you can home and probably even probe once set up, without the fear or stalling during normal operations. I've actually set up full sensorless homing on two machines at work and they seem ok despite the v-wheel system which is not a fluid moving as well calibrated ballscrew and linear rails. Fingers crossed but I'm optimistic.

[@homeselfmade6286]

@@EducatingSavvas Interesting. Would love if you have time to do a repeatability test once ready, meaning homing, then go to probe to see offset, then repeat x-times. That should certainly show if it's precise enough. On the Duet3d website they specify "...the actual position of the stall is uncertain to either +/- half a full step or +/- 2 full steps. This means that when using stall detection to replace endstop switches, the position defined by the stall is much less accurate than with typical endstop switches." But, think you are right that with the right HW the sensitivity could be fine enough that it's very reliable. I hesitate to implement on my Screwdriven WorkBee with those flimsy (long 1500mm) leadscrews. Have no experience to backup this hesitation however! :) Looking very much forward to see how your machine turns out in operation and see how far it can be pushed.

[@philvale5724]

Hi 👋, I found your tutorial very interesting but there doesn’t seem to be any more follow-ups are you still about. PHIL FROM THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOULIN FRANCE.

[@EducatingSavvas]

Had to move out of the studio as the building was closing down - so I'm recouping for a while, and working on some art projects instead. Not sure when I'll be back.

[@Naturemannz]

Thankyou for your great post. This is what i aspire too. Currently im learning fusion 3d. I want to build Boo Tec cnc, if you know who that is? But ideally i want to progress to your level. I love the precise nature. I will eventually buy your plans. 😀 Hi from New Zealand

[@lemanxr]

Hi is it 40x80 aluminium profiles?

[@EducatingSavvas]

No 60x30mm profile

[@aether_antares7761]

Looks absolutely great, got me hooked already. What would the machine cost on average? What is the work area of the machine? I want to know this first before I order the plans and start making a BOM list.

[@EducatingSavvas]

I've been a bit lazy and not written the full parts list and costing because I'm letting people generate that from the step file CAD. But I'll do that soon and estimate a cost. 😅

[@aether_antares7761]

@@EducatingSavvas Totally understandable, alot of people would already be happy with a rough cost estimate and what the work area is. Thank you for sharing!

[@EducatingSavvas]

​@@aether_antares7761 So I found my parts list which I had forgotten I wrote - everything on the machine itself (not including electrical controller) and minus the parts you would make yourself such as the plates and 3D printed components, you are looking at £750 roughly. I bought the linear rails and ball screws as a bundle which cost around £230, aluminium profile and t-nuts was £180, steppers around £100, remaining fixings around £120, and remaining parts such as drag chain and spindle mount £120. But when you add a spindle and good quality electronics you are always looking at around 1.5k. I'll make the parts list available in the new year once I've verified it hasn't got too many mistakes. The cutting capacity is 430 along the X axis and 830 along the Y, and 100mm along the Z axis. The part count is 772 compared to 1076 for the Moot One.

[@flippingwoodforcash9130]

Amazing tool

[@fuzzy1dk]

Since you have room under the table you could have done the Y axis with a single central ballscrew and steppermotor

[@aether_antares7761]

Thats actually more inaccurate. Now he has 2 ball screws on the Y axis, this means 2 limit switches so the Y gantry can't skew itself because it zero's both sides.

[@fuzzy1dk]

@@aether_antares7761 until one of the steppers stall and the machine tears it self apart. Both configuration have advantages, but if low cost it the goal, a single screw and stepper makes sense

[@EducatingSavvas]

@@fuzzy1dk That's is an issue that I'm hoping never happens. You can enable motor stall detection in the duet controller which could prevent the tearing apart bit, but the likelihood of a motor failure is very unlikely. I think the controller will also detect if stepper wiring is not installed properly.

[@deryamluthier237]

EXELENTE MUY BUEN VIDEO

[@1973shaner]

Another awesome build video, looks a very nice machine indeed ! The reduction in parts required, simplifying the design and reducing build costs are all positives for those wanting to replicate your machine on a budget 🙂. I am currently building a steel frame CNC machine using SBR rails for part of the construction and so this video was of particular interest. I have watched this video several times to figure out what Stepper Motors you are using ???? I presume they are all Nema34's and all driven directly from the Duet board's Onboard TMC drivers Rated (4.5 Amps Max) ???? The reason I ask is that I have an old Duet Wifi Version 2 Control Board that I want to use on my CNC build but I was wondering if it was up to to driving the Nema34's that I have already purchased as they are rated at 4 Amps. So I was interested in what Steppers you used on this build and what the average current setting was for each motor ?. Thanks for all your hard work in putting together these videos, I am an avid follower of your channel and your previous builds have inspired me to now go and build my own machine.

[@EducatingSavvas]

Thanks and glad you've found the content useful and interesting. I'm using much smaller 2.8A Nema 23 steppers in this project. For me the power from those is enough to get some decent cutting speeds. It's advisable to set the current to 80% of what is advertised - so mine ran at 2.24A. The duet 2 can supply a max of 2.4A so in theory you could use 3.0A max.

[@1973shaner]

Thank you for your reply and the information regarding the stepper motors you have used on this build. I see the Duet 3 board has a much higher current rating and extra features thanks to the TMC2160, and I after watching your video on using Stall Guard to home the Z-Axis I think I will invest in a New Duet 3 Myself when I can afford the upgrade . I have really enjoyed your channel over the years and its the one place I come back to for good info and advice using the Duet board as a CNC controller. I like the way you break things down and explain in detail what your thinking and planning to do as you design and build each project.

[@x_jaydn]

I find that the HGR rails are comparable in price to the SBR rails, actually, so I might just go with those. Also, what are the advantages to HGR rails over MGN rails? 🤔

[@erwinz5926]

so far. so trivial. essentially. how does the outcome differ from the Moot_One with the better rails!? thats looks the same. that is the crucial point for the design decision that i have to make. is it worse saving 30% for the expensive rails and replace it with the sbr. or are there limits. what re the limits? please.

[@EducatingSavvas]

The main difference is the moot three machine looks more beautiful. The risk is if you build it, you might end up marrying the CNC machine. In theory the Moot One might be little easier to calibrate but it can't be scaled up as large due to the aluminium profile I used - compared to the two and three. I never got a chance to really put the Moot Three through it's paces as I had to let go of my studio last July but I felt confident it was really beautiful.

[@erwinz5926]

@@EducatingSavvas so. thanks. i wont build it. guess ill hopefully be able to make "my own" design. sbr 20 or paying double for hgr20 blockrails in that size of machine!? is it worse it?

[@TheGalacticWest]

22:40

[@razvantrece1501]

Hello, I just made my CNC and on my first test something does not seem right. The CNC uses 2.2 KW air cooled spindle at 300 Hz speed. and a Makita drill bit with one cutting teeth as you can see in the picture from the end of my video. Could you please explain why do I have that whistle noise when it cuts? Also the spindle motors is getting very hut, after the cut I could barely hold my hand on it? Cut federate is 800 . The diameter of the drill bit is 6mm. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqS1fIWraNV7eNk

[@monkeyflyer410]

You need an engineers level!

[@EducatingSavvas]

Dam it, another toy I don't have.

[@flippingwoodforcash9130]

Did my one for £600

[@EducatingSavvas]

But did you factor your own time... Lol.

[@flippingwoodforcash9130]

It was a lot off mistake and a good challenge but now I can make one in about 2 days I plan to make a pink one very soon I think I will time it

[@juicyriffs805]

Im so stoked to be in the process of building my own! I believe this is a very solid, and practical design for these type of linear rails… (And my apologies in advance for being a total noob to DIY CNC! ) Questions: Would anyone find any flaw with using G50 Steel instead of T6 Aluminum? I’m curious about making this build as strong as it can be, but cut costs as much as possible. G50 Steel is heavier, but can be much thinner, and cheaper… Another Question: Honestly, I would love to just buy some high quality, 5/8” thick plywood and be done with it; But I dont have a CNC to cut these out with, this will be my very first CNC. :) I found a 3rd party company OSH Cuts… The website allows you to upload DXF files, select the material & thickness, bevelling / finishing, and shipping speed. I just think this is really cool, but its not cheap! I think it might be worth it for the situation I am in, having no CNC machine; However, I would gladly pay someone to cut these out of plywood and ship them to me; None of the CNC companies I’ve found offer to CNC Plywood parts LOL Any input, opinions and or advice would be greatly appreciated! Cheers to my fellow DIY CNC enthusiasts!

[@waynes517]

Get yourself on some forums. Plenty of folk with lots of experience who will cut the files out for you :) Good luck with the build!

[@erwinz5926]

plywood is great unless you are working in steel milling and high end applications. however. the overall design of structural integrity is a little more important working with technical woods. think in terms of building a bridge. with many edges, repetitive support screws and rectangular supports brings you far. if you fold a piece of din a 4 paper, you can make a bridge carrying 10 grams or so... so. and of course: the shorter the bridge, the less it hangs. that simple. alluminium hangs 1 mm after 1 meter(unsupported with a 20kg z axis.) a good and heavy z axis therefore is a good thing if you want a even cut,e.g. in alluminium i guess. honestly. i also thing in terms of using simply stone. and if space is no biggy a portal design might help with regidity. (the x rail is half working space then only. think about that. if you get 2.2 rails for 80 euros- it does not matter.) the drive system is a problem with bigger designs i guess. over 1,5 m one might tend to 25 plus ballscrews or rack and pinion essentially...(r and p better scales in length) i will start with plywood as well, i guess. and theses 'cheap' rails are good enough for the beginning and give a good piece of support. for high end and steel milling the hgh rails are more common. ballscrews have a good reputation for harder materials(steel) as well. if you work with woods you might neglect deflection totally.