Moral Standard For Right And Wrong | Seth-ID | The Atheist Experience 891

[@lnsflare1]

Let's all take a moment to appreciate how brave he was to call in when he is clearly terrified of Matt.

[@jeffsims8270]

Are you certain of that? Lol

[@Think-dont-believe]

@@jeffsims8270 exactly ignorance Is bliss the dudes an aggressive idiot. He deserves no appreciation for his bravado.. it’s actually odd Insflare believe he does 🤔

[@koyang341]

@k m it was a joke

[@jrsanti]

Insflare1 no he’s not brave. He’s a coward to choose whom he wants to argue.

[@MrStatix69]

Tbf, I mostly agree with Matt, and I’d be terrified of calling him…

[@kokos9652]

as Matt said to a caller one day - if god is the only thing holding youfrom raping and murdering I hope you never stop believing. I think Seth should also keep believing...

[@jasonmunro1983]

Brilliant👏👏

[@johnd.shultz7423]

Without his belief that a cosmic "dad" is watching him and will recognize his bad actions and punish him, the caller cant find any other reason to treat other beings with compassion or empathy,perhaps the caller is actually less evolved than other humans who treat others out of an innate sense of empathy without the fear of punishment...

[@devaunplowman2327]

I 100% agree

[@Peace2dagawdz]

My God!!!

[@harriemeijers9826]

@@Peace2dagawdz Well said. As long as Seth does not try to press me to believe.

[@seanmacd4274]

This call is a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

[@barbiedahl]

Cognitive Dissonance + Dunning-Kruger = seth

[@ohh1065]

Dude is a dumb ass 😂 the lion has to kill the gazelle because he can’t go shop at a market like we can that’s why no one bats an eye

[@dieSpinnt]

@@ohh1065 In addition: The comparative assessment or projection of the moral standard of another species (if there should be one) inevitably leads to the equality of the retrospective assessment or projection of oneself. And that inevitably leads to the insane asylum:) (Please don't think I am insane because of this complicated statement. That writing just means that even your "the lion has to kill the gazelle"(what you are defending here) can't be judged by our moral standards. That would be insane. So your really funny and good explanation of the problem isn't even necessary. A person may be feeling bad about the hunt down prey, but if he starts to humanize the animals, then he really should visit a doctor. This also applies to the opposite case, with dehumanization, which is sadly also a topic) I really rolled eyes about Seth's views, more than one time:) Have a nice day, Ohh and good luck shopping;)

[@ohh1065]

@@dieSpinnt you’re completely right and the craziest thing is him saying he would rape an kill without a god 😂 that shows the thought process of someone who can believe in a fictional being an I hope you have a good day also

[@khaledelsayed5357]

Amen......lol

[@markharrison6498]

This is one of the funniest callers I've ever heard. Love his shameless attempts to dodge matt because he knows his argument is garbage

[@Wolfman453]

The caller making all those attempts to talk to Don was like watching a teenager repeatedly attempt to go to mom because dad kept saying “no.”

[@creativewriter3887]

It was WORSE than that.. it was going to mom when Dad made it clear that raping your sister is repugnant and will not be done!

[@c.guydubois8270]

My parents had a system. After pestering mom for permission she would say go ask your father. Then dad would ask what did your mother say? She said ask your dad. Dad's answer was always no....

[@robsengahay5614]

When you see Don struggle - as indeed I would as someone not skilled in debating - you truly appreciate how great Matt is in defeating these specious arguments.

[@ericscaillet2232]

Most of us have gifts that we hardly develop , Matt sure has his tested daily.

[@elizabethsteer6883]

That’s why the caller only wanted to address Don. He knew that Don is a bit of a soft touch and would just let him ramble and preach. I sometimes wonder why Don does this show. He never really has much to say.

[@robsengahay5614]

@@elizabethsteer6883 I agree. It is clear that Matt has little confidence in him. One thing I don’t like too is his condescending mockery of, and sniping at, the callers which is a substitute for insightful comment. He seems to genuinely think his comments are little ‘gotchas’ when most of the time they are easily countered. He struggles even more when he is with someone other than Matt. Some people are just poor at articulating an argument. It is not easy for sure. I don’t think I would be very good at it especially as I have never debated a theist. I don’t know very many that I am aware of and have never engaged any of them in any debate on the existence of a God. Unless they really wanted that discussion I wouldn’t engage in that debate.

[@elizabethsteer6883]

@@robsengahay5614 I find it quite annoying also the way Don will say something he believes is witty or funny, then laugh uproariously drowning out the other host who is probably attempting to make up for Don’s clumsy and unthought out comments. I honestly don’t know why he’s been on the show so long. I hate to say it but he’s a bit of a buffoon really.

[@robsengahay5614]

@@elizabethsteer6883 I hate to say it too but I am in 100% agreement with you.

[@thomasowens5824]

Seth: One of the most twisted and immoral callers I have ever heard, fantastic how Matt handled him.

[@jakesmith5278]

Like a little bit##.

[@binnieb173]

Poor Don. Hopefully he learned from the way Matt dealt with him.

[@nixxyhasthoughts]

@@binnieb173 Don has the same points really he just expresses them in a different way. The caller was also being dishonest in his approach which can be hard to counter on the spot.

[@creativewriter3887]

He was trying to destroy the concept of laws to then make it "Okay" for slavery as a "materialistic" outcome of survival of the fittest. He's insidious in trying to make the case FOR owning other people. He's trying to do the "if there are no laws, there's no violations and if there's no violation, then it's okay to do whatever you want.".which is why he says that slavery isn't "wrong"

[@Columbiastargazer]

And still ZERO evidence for some magical invisible sky daddy

[@jcarc5701]

Ya but to be fair, it’s only been thousands of years. Maybe when we get into the tens of thousands, we may see something. The level of gullibility and/or dishonesty one has to engage in to believe this nonsense is mind boggling.

[@luisroldan3183]

Probably my all time favorite call. At the end Matt just cornered him like big cat cutting off his prey’s escape

[@jazzfree1541]

I'm going back to talking to Don - hilarious 😂

[@pauldriscoll6319]

Mhmmm it was at this point Seth seen the light and realised FEK its a truck lol

[@easypimpin123]

One the more entertaining calls. He was literally terrified of Matt so he was focusing on a weaker target. Classic bully mentality.

[@davidpower7874]

I don't treat my Dog as a slave, I rescued him, housed him, feed him, take care of all his needs. That said he knows where the door is and is free to leave any damn time he wants.

[@garyskinner2422]

@@yabutmaybenot.6433 Yes I'm the slave in me n my cats relationship, I have to go feed him, when he wants me to cuddle him he chooses, when I want to cuddle him he generally fs off for hours until he summons me with a meow to get him more food.

[@garyskinner2422]

@@yabutmaybenot.6433 Yes I'm deliberately being a slave due to the feelings I get when my master gives me snippets of attention it's like drugs I want more

[@chrisccc22]

@@yabutmaybenot.6433 The difference between cats and dogs are as follows. Cats are solitary predators. Dogs are pack animals and scavengers. If you sat down with your dog and a box of hotdogs, the dog would eat every last one. Throwing them up and coming back for more, until they are gone. Even though it knows you are it's owner, it does not know where it's next meal is coming from. It's a scavenger. A cat however would only eat enough hotdogs until it is full. It has claws to catch it's own prey. There are no others in the pack to divide amongst with. Cats do whatever the hell they want to. Ever catch your dog eating the garbage and it knows it's in trouble? It has a cowering look of guilt. A cat will look at you and say "What the ef are you looking at?", and then lick it's privates.

[@williamwatson4354]

@@yabutmaybenot.6433 My cat thinks he's God. He's loving but highly jealous, capricious, can turn on me without a moments notice, he follows me whenever he wants, but disappears when I want him, and he's interested in Sparrows. If that isn't God I don't know what is.

[@ericscaillet2232]

@@yabutmaybenot.6433 One can thankful that we are bigger in stature, imagine your kitty of a dog size , or our size for that matter , I like kitties as they are a miniature reminder of the tigers, lions etc and of how vulnerable and insignificant we would be without our learning , knowledge hopefully acquired and tool power...besides they are great compagnions full of antics 😉

[@koraggknightwolf8454]

This is the episode that literally made me an atheist. My favorite call of all time. I don't know how Matt kept his composure going round in circles with this presup for 30 minutes of his shenanigans.

[@alabastergreen7444]

When someone starts their response with "right, but" you know they aren't listening to anything you say. They're just waiting for their turn to talk

[@pauldriscoll6319]

Seth not want to speak with Matt was funny as hell.

[@ToyotaTom04]

"I'm trying to talk to Don because I know Matt will destroy me."

[@j50wells]

This Seth guy is kind of like some of the politicians we have. "Uh, why do you want to keep your money? And is it really your money? It's just paper, so why wouldn't you want to give it all to me? It's just paper, right?"

[@idahogie]

I've never heard any politician say anything like that.

[@ericscaillet2232]

Its paper all right, with power and might, that is as long as the systems that created it holds up.

[@idahogie]

Waiting... can you provide a single example of any politician ever saying that?

[@j50wells]

@@idahogie Relax....

[@idahogie]

@@j50wells So you were just babbling, and didn't really mean what you said?

[@RustyShackleford-bc9ce]

I think what most people's problem when debating with matt is that he actually listens to everything the other person says

[@hegyak]

Theist: "God made the laws. And is Always right." Also Theist: "Slavery is bad." Atheist: "So, God is Wrong then? Or is Slavery bad?" Theist: "Um. UH..."

[@mikelipinski7615]

By what standard?!!!

[@stevencorey7623]

@@mikelipinski7615 the same standard theists use but make a extra step and that is make a claim (god of the gaps fallacy) they won’t and/or refuse to back up. We use critical thinking and the study of our human history and reality…that standard. But Atleast the atheist is honest

[@davidroberts1689]

@@mikelipinski7615 What standard does God use? Maybe we both use the same standard. Except I wouldn't allow slavery.

[@ivannenadovic9465]

The fact that they can't instantly say without hesitation that slavery is bad really says something

[@reidoha1066]

This was like a 30 minute edging video of just waiting for Matt to kick-in & end the call.

[@minneapolismichael9869]

I loved how the caller took precautions on at least two occasions to cover his behind by providing highly qualified answers because (in my view) he feared his answer being used or cherry picked against him. Which is entirely what he was doing from his first question.

[@Pohgrey]

I think the most obvious answer to the "well what if someone doesn't care about well being?" is "what if someone doesn't care about what your book says?". It's a question that's not answered by religion either. We can derive objective morals once a goal is established, and they can be improved on as we learn more.

[@walnutoil100]

We can derive objective morals once a goal is established, - Your evidence is? How is that goal objective?

[@Pohgrey]

@@walnutoil100 the goal is subjective. Once established and agreed upon you can derive objective truths.

[@Pohgrey]

Did I misphrase that? I didn't mean to assert there were objective goals. I'm with Matt and Sam Harris in that I do think by and large most would agree that increasing well being and decreasing suffering is a pretty solid goal. That's the subjective part. From there tho, we can objectively determine the consequences of actions that add, detract or have no impact on well being. I know it's fuzzy. Kinda like "healthy" is fuzzy, but we all have a pretty good idea of what it is, and it's about as good as I think we have. I think if you really drill down to it, most of us already operate that way.

[@Pohgrey]

@@walnutoil100 just out of curiosity, where were you going with your question? Do you have a point or was it just a misunderstanding with my sloppy phrasing?

[@rickyd.989]

Useless subject. Having been programmed by their preachers, the religs will always believe atheists are immoral. They are also completely blind to the immorality contained in their book.

[@nunyabusiness979]

@John Wood The J-dog was a man out of time.

[@fz8476]

How you describe immorality. Based on your mind, your perspective. But, based on our opinion, to reject god that cretae you is much immoral compared to others.

[@nunyabusiness979]

@@fz8476 You said it quite well. WE don't describe immorality with baseless opinions. We base it on how it affects the social constructs. Best described by *don't do to anyone what you wouldn't want done to you.*

[@rickyd.989]

@@fz8476 . Seek professional help if you can’t see immorality in the bible. Have you stoned any of your children to death or sold any of your daughters to slavery? Not sure what “cretae” means, is that a word you picked up at kindy?

[@metalman4393]

This is the first time I've seen the term 'religs'. Sounds fun :3

[@thanushaanyoga2698]

Seth was all so proud when targeting Don.

[@hhvictor2462]

It is with "absolute certainty" Matt SHOVED the pos caller into the proverbial corner hahahahahhahahaha

[@shanedoe3462]

This guy is a bully. He knows Don isn't as experienced as Matt in debates, so he targets him. He's not interested in truth, just winning.

[@heinshaaine8153]

Bully is really fitting.

[@chrisrace744]

This was pretty poor by Don and Matt I could have easily answered these questions.

[@heinshaaine8153]

@@chrisrace744 So why is it bad for one animal to own another animal?

[@chrisrace744]

@@heinshaaine8153 Your question is too broad because the answers differ based on context. For example humans and dogs and cats are evolved companions that rely on each other (so the concept of ownership is nonsensical). This is a straw man argument where people claim one example is OK therefore the other extreme (I.e. human slaves) must be ok. Without understanding how its different.

[@chrisrace744]

@@heinshaaine8153 The part you need to understand is that it's only "bad" in the context of a society or intelligence that cares. For example chimps regularly murder and massacre each other and no one cares. That's how they've evolved. Humans used to be like that too but we evolved to be more social and cooperative. What we now call "good" and "bad" are simply relative to our currently accepted standards. The universe doesn't care.

[@luisroldan3183]

Probably my favorite call, especially the end about absolute certainty. It also shows the humility of being a sceptic and the arrogance of some theists

[@koraggknightwolf8454]

This very call was the moment I became an atheist. From start to finish. And like you said emphasis on the finish with the "how is it possible for a fallible being to determine something is an infallible source?" I had been really looking for that final thing that would push me over The Edge and this was it.

[@sknnyd2676]

Why is it wrong for one animal to hurt another? What MAKES it wrong? Easy.. Morality is proportionate to the understanding of the being in question. A lion doesnt see past the fact that it is catching its dinner. A human has the capacity to understand the harm it is doing. Its not inherently wrong for one animal to harm another, its wrong when that animal understands the harm it is doing. And so far humans are the only animals with a mechanism by which to come to that understanding. Thank you caller for all the work you do for atheism. You are a shining example for my children of how religious thinking disconnects one from reality.

[@walnutoil100]

So how do you differentiate harm from benefit objectively?

[@sknnyd2676]

@@walnutoil100 harm isnt objective. Some people like being chained to a bed and whipped and some dont. If you wanna know if slavery is harmful, ask the slave. In Harry Potter house elves enjoy their enslavement to the point that they are deeply offended by the idea of freedom and wages. If morality had an objective standard we wouldnt be having this conversation. Your morality isnt any more objective than mine, but my right to swing my fist around stops at your face because most people including myself dont want to be punched in the face. If it hurts me, i assume it hurts you too.

[@sknnyd2676]

@@walnutoil100 your turn. How do you differentiate harm from benefit objectively? Use my example of being chained to a bed and whipped. Is it objectively wrong to chain someone to a bed and whip them? Why or why not?

[@jeremybentham3313]

@@walnutoil100 would you be willing to be my slave under biblical law? I'm a sadist, btw

[@walnutoil100]

@@sknnyd2676 harm isnt objective.- oh so you cant know what is morally good in reality then? " If you wanna know if slavery is harmful, ask the slave." But their answer is just their subjective feelings contradicted by the slaver - who feels its beneficial.

[@hatuletoh]

Seth is a great example of why I dropped Intro to Philosophy and Moral Systems after a single day in class.

[@noahwinslow2692]

I absolutely love the dynamic between Matt and Don. I'd love to get a drink with these guys

[@zoranbeader6441]

The caller is absolutely right. Self preservation isn't morality. I wouldn't wanna be a slave just like I wouldn't wanna be killed, cooked and eaten. Yet I had chicken for lunch yesterday, it was delicious and I had no moral issues about how harmful the whole affair was for the chicken.

[@lukewojtanowicz1991]

The level of certainty that you hold about a proposition has no relation to the truth value of that proposition.

[@elainejohnson6955]

If God is perfect, how did he make imperfect beings? You can't get orange juice out of an apple. You can't get imperfection out of perfection.

[@Orbital_Dew]

not if the intend of the perfect thing is to create inperfection ? its perfectly made inperfect ... it's getting confusing ....

[@warrencolegrove1]

Love Don and Matt. Thank you for all you do, and put up with.

[@hegyak]

"That which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

[@heavymeddle28]

@SPEIRS OMNHURST depends on what topic imo

[@ajclements4627]

@SPEIRS OMNHURST So, when will you actually have a good argument? You’ve said you’ve been “debunking atheists and atheism for 50 years” and you’re still quite shite at it.

[@ATOK_]

The great Christopher Hitchens

[@jeremybentham3313]

@SPEIRS OMNHURST would you be willing to be my slave under biblical law?

[@walnutoil100]

So atheism can be dismissed

[@ponyboygarfunkel1675]

Let's hope Seth has grown up in the past seven years.

[@ummmno3871]

He’s busy at an anti-mask rally somewhere right now.

[@jimster1577]

@@ummmno3871 Absolutely. That's exactly where he is.

[@zhontac6194]

@@ummmno3871 after he gets out of the antivax convention.

[@tychophotiou6962]

@@ummmno3871 no. It's the mask wearers who are highly indoctrinated and brainwashed. Seth is definitely wearing a mask!!!

[@_-AB-_]

@@tychophotiou6962 why, putting on mask will reduce infections caused by inhaling/exhaling viruses. Mask is only bad because of mandate, because govt. imposed it, and it hurts ego, it makes you feel like a "slave".

[@antonjoubert6980]

All these presups are disgustingly dishonest

[@sknnyd2676]

@Dewyu Nohmi as the king of ignorance kent hovind says, "Dumb on purpose"

[@VibratorDefibrilator]

This "absolutely certain" bit at the end made mt day! "I do this sh*t for a living!" Oh, Matt...

[@MAR1N4M1]

This caller was being purposefully obtuse. Why did he think he could avoid Matt? 😂

[@boneappletea3858]

I'm proud of Matt's patience. It kept him from misspeaking in anger to give the little shit ammo lol.

[@artistryartistry7239]

The caller didn't want to fight the end level boss, lol

[@Whoisreal666]

I love these conversations. I wish there was more conversations on this subject.

[@FakingANerve]

2014 Matt took the time to kick ass in a reasoned, rational, and highly effective way. Be like 2014 Matt. Take the time - kick some ass with reason and rationality.

[@yespub234]

One kid cuts the cake and the other kid gets to choose his piece. Seth brings to mind the book "Lord Of The Flies". The savages or bullies against the intellectuals. The intellectuals were not a happy bunch. And one more: "And the lion will lie down with the lamb, but the lamb won't get much sleep." Woody Allen

[@defaultdan9715]

Ok that's it. I'm no longer an atheist. I've realized now that Matt is a fucking God. He just destroyed this caller with perfection. I was going to add, "and made him look like a tool", but the caller did that on his own.

[@philwhitehouse4290]

These objective moral arguments with theists are tedious. If we have no reason to believe that a God exists, we can either run around doing whatever we like with no regard for our fellow humans or we can try and construct a moral framework based on empathy, moral progress and well being. Sure, it's much easier to believe that we have a handy list to follow, handed down by an ultimate law giver but easier doesn't necessarily mean better or objective.

[@he-mememan359]

It's entirely subjective, he used to command that pregnant women who didn't follow his laws were to have their babies ripped from their bellies and spilled in the sand, now he's against abortion apparently.

[@eklektikTubb]

Theists would say that a man-made moral framework is not different from some random man-made false religion, but they both are different from the one true religion.

[@ryanjohndelosreyes201]

Pppp

[@pauldriscoll6319]

@@eklektikTubb true religion oh you mean the one made up by man... got you.....

[@jcarc5701]

@@pauldriscoll6319 I think he means Islam, oh wait Buddhism, maybe Christianity…the local shaman. You are right, they’re all man made.

[@georgecarr9561]

How to spot a psychopath in 20 seconds?

[@LittleDays]

“if the universe is only made of matter, you can’t know there are laws” Yet here we are talking about laws

[@mbm3155]

I loved that ending, wonderful call as a whole lol

[@guytheincognito4186]

"They claim to be the ones with a moral foundation yet it's quite the opposite. We atheists are the ones with the moral foundation, we create it for ourselves, we are responsible for it, we enforce it and reward it ourselves. When we do wrong, we know that we are wrong, we also know why we are wrong and we try to assign the appropriate response for that wrong. Our moral system is more refined and developed that any religious one, and all religions borrow from our system, if they want to function in our world. Our rewards and punishments are more just than any religious ones, they are more immediate and more rational and fair. As well as being reasonable and easy to explain to convince others of their validity." ‐Johnny Drivebye (Ytuber)

[@metalman4393]

Temporary government-sanctioned supervised slavery for criminals seems like a reasonable alternative to incarceration. Like make them work a factory job or something. We have something like that here in India in a place called Tihar jail. They make products in prisoner run factories. They hold music concerts and stuff. But I guess that's more like rehab than slavery. kinda slavery but not really. There's another region in India called Laddakh, where criminals are sentenced to build mounds of limestone. Not much utility for mounds of limestone, but I've seen whole fields of these mounds. Looks kinda cool. Maybe a bit of forced labour can be good at making people chill? Idk.

[@markharrison6498]

I love Don. He took that abuse like a champ. The bloke has such a positive attitude.

[@prettybabyface7313]

😂

[@markharrison6498]

@@prettybabyface7313 I used to not appreciate him that much but he’s definitely grown on me over the years. Maybe I’m wrong but he doesn’t seem to have as much of an ego as some of the other hosts

[@prettybabyface7313]

@@markharrison6498 I couldn’t agree with you more,he seems to take life on the softer side, He also looks like it’ll take so much to make him angry..but I don’t like his consistent laughter,at times it’s not needed lol

[@Andy-ju8bb]

Damn. 2014 Matt needs to watch some 2021 Matt. 2014 Matt was far too tolerant of all of that.

[@OfficialSeth]

If this call happened in 2021 Matt probably would have hung up on him after 5 minutes.

[@JohnJones-ot5rg]

Law of gravity Doesn't need to be written down But it still totally exists

[@artistryartistry7239]

Lol, 2021 Matt would've never let the caller decide who he wants to talk to.

[@hamtrucker]

One of the best... That guy knew Matt would own him lol.

[@Mikorator64]

"So harming people is wrong?"

[@davidroberts1689]

Yeah, I'm calling and I want to speak to only Don too.

[@Codswallop58]

The caller starts from the erroneous assumption that atheism has a doctrine, a moral code, or anything of the kind. Many atheists are also humanists (like Don and Matt). But the one does not necessitate the other. He also doesn’t understand the social contract

[@jerryheeg9288]

You can't blame Don for being stumped by an insane line of questioning. Asking someone why slavery is wrong is as absurd as Asking why the holocaust was wrong its painfully obvious and most people don't have an easy answer for such an obvious question

[@chrism6315]

Tldw for everyone else, 28 minutes of set up for the caller to just make a circular argument.

[@onlychangeiscertain]

“Survival of the fittest/strongest” - another theist not understanding evolution. What a surprise.

[@shanewilson7994]

I've found that they like to take overly simplistic explanations and act as if that is the end all be all instead of looking into the more detailed explanations.

[@AlexPBenton]

“1+1=2” “But what if someone wants 1+1 to equal 3?” Then they would not survive nearly as effectively as someone who knows what they’re doing.

[@freddan6fly]

1+1 = 10 in base 2.

[@AlexPBenton]

@@freddan6fly Yeah, not 3

[@yoredeerleader]

Cats have been domesticated for 10K years and dogs have been domesticated for 50K years and both animals did jobs for humans that helped in the survival of all species.

[@HaeravonFAQs]

I guarantee you that this caller knew ahead of time what Matt's responses to these would be, and specifically wanted to avoid that discussion so he could focus on Don, instead. He didn't want to come to any understanding through debate, he wanted to try to score some points.

[@alicelaybourne1620]

Wow, looking back at this old video, Matt was so differently. Could you imagine for a second if Seth talked to Matt like that in 2021? Jesus Mary and Joseph!

[@IoDavide1]

When a caller mistake the surprise for the idiocy of his questions for a lack of ability to answer

[@heavymeddle28]

Am I the only one thinking that the moral question is sooooo boring. Like a broken record. Same thing over and over again💤💤💤💤

[@ajclements4627]

That’s the only thing believers think they can argue, everything else is just a bunch of zombie topics they resurrect in the threads 24/7.

[@heavymeddle28]

@@ajclements4627 yea I know that you're right about that. It's just such a boring topic. Such a silly thing to debate. I can't even remember how many times theists have asked me "what stops you from raping and killing anyone anytime?" That question says more about themselves, right? 😅

[@ajclements4627]

@@heavymeddle28 That question is THE most ridiculous and ignorant one they can ask in my opinion.

[@laurenchobert8985]

This is basically a GOT episode! Seth = Ramsey Bolton. Don = Jon Snow. Matt = Tyrion

[@jeromemccollom936]

That's a good point, a law in science is a probability, it approaches but does not necessary reach being absolute certain.

[@andrewgarner3428]

My dog is a valued member of my family, and is treated extremely well. I’d trade places with her in the veil of ignorance scenario. I wouldn’t trade places with a slave. Simple.

[@bcgroves]

Clearly caller has never shared a house with a cat if he thinks humans own cats - I think he has it backwards.

[@sabin1166]

This guy is an example of how religion, dumbs down the human race.

[@dragowolfraven3806]

Before she died my grandmother taught me how to figure out right from wrong. Plus she actually existed which is more than I can say for any deities😂

[@walnutoil100]

Prove God does not exist and prove you actually know right from wrong objectively in the real world

[@canbest7668]

@@walnutoil100 Can't be proven as it is not a claim. The burden of proof is with the one that makes the claim. (some simple examples - "You stole my wallet", "Pizza is the best food ever"). Theists make the claim while atheists ask for proof. Some atheists would be overjoyed with solid proof. Unfortunalty, some theists continually fail to 1) grasp this concept and 2) provide proof. Over and over again

[@sknnyd2676]

@@walnutoil100 Drago said that they cant say a god exists, not that no god exists. You either intentionally misunderstood and strawmanned their position, or you simply dont know how burden of proof works. You are fallaciously attempting to shift a burden of proof that is entirely on YOUR shoulders. Nice try but that crap doesnt fly around here

[@garyskinner2422]

@@walnutoil100 God is unfalsifiable, along with my invisible octopus

[@walnutoil100]

@@canbest7668 Can't be proven as it is not a claim. - Your evidence is? "The burden of proof is with the one that makes the claim." - IN this case thats the atheist.

[@krazer9515]

I find it amazing that Theists consistently use, but misunderstand value judgement words. Right/Wrong, Good/Bad, Better/Worse. Every last one of those is subjective to the person using them. But Theists seem obsessed with the idea that they are absolute. Something is WRONG in all aspects and situations, but once you pose a hypothetical where it is worse to not do the action, suddenly they start deflecting. None i have talked to or heard ever seem to accept that they already live in and are perfectly fine with a world of subjective value judgements, but seem obsessed with thinking their subjective judgement has an objective backing. Just pointing out the bible, they Have to subjectively judge the bible to cherry pick their objective commandments, then ignore the opposing commands.

[@walnutoil100]

Right/Wrong, Good/Bad, Better/Worse. Every last one of those is subjective to the person using them.- So slavery is not morally wrong if one feels its right - correct?

[@krazer9515]

@@walnutoil100 Apparently you didnt watch the video. Morality itself is a subjective construct of the individual about actions taken verses the reality we are in. Slavery is wrong in my view, because in a world where it does exist, i would not want to be a slave. Nor would i want anyone else to suffer as one. Does my morality make it correct for everyone? No. But society as a whole agreed that some things damage more then they help, and made them illegal. Slavery is one of those things. Now an actual good question would be "Is Slavery immoral if the person wants to be enslaved?" That is a harder question to answer, but that isnt the Got Ya you wanted it to be.

[@walnutoil100]

@@krazer9515 Morality itself is a subjective construct- Your evidence is? Is this an objectively true statement? If its subjective then slavery cannot be wrong because the slaver FEELS its right

[@krazer9515]

@@walnutoil100 You seem to be insisting on running the old "subjective vs objective argument". A) i dont believe in objective morality. Objective truths could exist but because of basic constraints we have on how we perceive reality, we can never be sure what we perceive is objectively correct. B) Subjective morality does not mean everything is permissible. Just because a Slaver does not feel like his actions are wrong, and almost by definition they would not, does not mean that everyone else and Society at large does not view his actions as wrong and punish them accordingly. As far as evidence for the subjective morality, Where is any evidence for an objective morality. Should you say some form of deity, are they bound by the morality themselves and the morality is somehow tied to the universe, or did they dictate the morality and therefore it is still Subjective to their dictates. If it is a universe bound morality, why should we follow it, how do we identify it? TLDR: Yes a Slaver can feel like they are doing the "Right" thing. Surprisingly Society doesn't care what they feel.

[@walnutoil100]

@@krazer9515 i dont believe in objective morality. = Your feelings are irrelevant - prove objective morals dont exist. "e can never be sure what we perceive is objectively correct." - is this an objectively true statement? " Subjective morality does not mean everything is permissible." - Your evidence is? According to what objective standard is something not permissible? "does not mean that everyone else and Society at large does not view his actions as wrong and punish them accordingly." - Legality is not morality

[@anrose8335]

I so enjoy the mind of Matt Dillahunty!

[@gregorypdearth]

The "aught" is actually simple. If you value benefiting you aught to do that which is beneficial, not detrimental. Thus any detrimental act (as objectively proven based on our knowledge of societies and harm) should be avoided for that reason. The only trick is being sane enough to value that which is not detrimental.

[@Pohgrey]

I played a drinking game while listening to this video called "so you're saying" and boy am I smashed right now... :p

[@mindhead2005]

Seth : “Here is my script, which I wish to present to the host I wrongly perceive as being weaker on this subject” Hosts get him off script Seth: “Here is my script, DON…” Hosts get him off script X 30

[@jeremybentham3313]

Only Christians and Sith deal in absolutes

[@walnutoil100]

Is this an absolutely true statement?

[@Orbital_Dew]

gosh these calls are infuriating and i love it

[@jeff6660]

I love the way Matt flushed Seth and his presuppositionalism crap right down the toilet.

[@kobe51]

Summary of Caller - " Hello, I need to talk to someone who can't handle my presup script, please."

[@drhexagonapus]

If anyone claims absolute certainty about anything, you can be sure they're almost certainly wrong.

[@AndyCampbellMusic]

Morality cannot exist unless evolutionary awareness reaches a certain level. The steps are. 1. Awareness 2, Awareness that some events are less desirable than others, good/bad/right/wrong. Usually not dying = Desirable/good/right... Dying = Undesirable/bad/wrong.... 3. Awareness that events happening to something else, would be undesirable, if they happened to you.. (empathy). 4. Empathy then creates a version of morality. Without it the concept cannot exist... 5. Empathy cannot exist, unless awareness exists first. Morality cannot exist, unless the first two are in place. 6. None of these concepts can exist, without preexisting matter being there to house and form a level of awareness, capable of conceiving of them. 7. No matter = No mind. No mind = No concepts.

[@dudesayingthings]

Cats and dogs are not slaves. It is immoral to treat them as such. Keeping pets happy is a big part of pet ownership. What a disgustingly dishonest person he is.

[@ARINOXMUSIC]

Treat my dog as a slave, last time I checked I play with my dog and he comes to play with me ,slave masters don't play with their slaves nor have friendly interactions

[@whocares3591]

He's talking to don and trying to corner him,keep Matt out of it,for we all know you can not corner Matt....

[@bobphilips7998]

Entertaining start. Interesting middle, and then, AND THEN we had the last beautiful 7 or so minutes.

[@cooltube2000]

mmm fresh AXP

[@oldcountryboy]

Actually you can get clean water from a dirty filter Filters are made to last a while The 1st time water is run through the filter the filter is dirty So unless you only use your filter one time You are getting clean water from a dirty filter

[@DavidWilson-eu1mv]

I would have immediately taken Seth to the barn over his comment about accepting incest. I can see why this clown didn’t want to talk to Matt. His arrogance is only secondary to his ignorance. Glad to see Matt step in and mop the floor with this clown.

[@therealunklefreaky]

I'm absolutely certain I am experiencing. That's about it.

[@cynic150]

Whatever you do in life, it may be right or wrong, but it depends largely on context and circumstances.

[@nicholasagnew2792]

All that was needed to be said was "Thats just like your opinion man". That would have totally refuted everything Seth said.

[@russellh9894]

He's definitely called in before about this topic.

[@johnbull1986]

Poor old Don. He was never cut out for this.

[@phillipseifert694]

Atheists have no way of determining that slavery is morally wrong ??? Please inform caller that … slavers used god to justify slavery for 200 years in this country alone Don brings a warm fuzziness to the show (he’s perfection at it) … if you want to play gotcha … that’s what Matt is for The ending is fucking hilarious

[@AuditAmplifier]

Basic principles of morality: reducing suffering like pain and fear, promoting individual freedom/agency using empathy and rationality based upon an informed and ever-evolving consensus instead of doctrine and dogmatic (Neanderthal) thinking. Religions are just the politics of the ancients...💯

[@TheWuschi]

My heart is breaking for poor Don in this messed up call: the caller insisted in talking to him like a child choosing some weaker enemy-figure in a computer game just to make sure to win, and alas, he was right. Matt's interjection about "these questions being so stupefyingly easy to answer" didn't make the situation less embarassing, and Matt's jumping in to finish the caller off was a wonderful relief for the audience's tortured brains, but pushed Don for good onto the substitutes' bench. Matt never should have agreed to the caller's demand in the first place. Today's Matt wouldn't have, anyways.

[@arthurhunt642]

If Seth dropped a 10 lb bowling ball on his toes 5000 times, would the law of gravity be a law?

[@jaclo3112]

According to Seth, it would only be a law if you believe his god exists.