NEW Codex Stress Test! Recon Guard Vs Mech Guard! | Warhammer 40,000 Battle Report

[@seal3626]

The less important dice rolls being off camera is definitely appreciated!

[@thearmoredbugger9344]

A Recon Element with a Baneblade supporting it is also known as, "Recon by Fire."

[@brandonsteinhauer5281]

House Steiner in 40k Disguise

[@LordoftheSwarm]

True facts, America has Abrams tanks in its recon units. You know what's better than knowing where your enemy is? Destroying them in place and looking for a bigger element to report back on. Recon units also can guard flanks. Fast, big, well protected guns are for winners.

[@rileyernst9086]

Well in Italy where steep hills made advances very predictable along the few roads the British did take to using Churchill tanks to lead the way, when they had them, because that was about the only thing they had that could reliably survive taking a hit. The baneblade is certainly going to take a hit, and level whatever had the gall to open fire to boot.

[@marasmusine]

"Sir, we've located the enemy position, but you'll have to scrape them off the treads."

[@Gandalf50Shades]

Whoever labelled this a recon unit came from the same school of thought that came up with the Steiner scout lance.

[@muellermat]

@@Gandalf50Shades it is easier to count them if you blow them up first

[@dominicl5862]

⏸️ 53:27. Middle of round two, top of Mech Guard turn 2. Mordian hit it right on the nose as to WHY Simon ofc wasn't finding the detachment rule working for him. You aren't gonna be rewarded when ur opponent takes out your transport. Cmon now. Mordians take is spot on "you can't take an old army and plug it into a new Detachment." You need to lean into it. Mech Assault is almost like Bridgehead, it's about delivering strong punchy units WITH transports and striking hard and fast. It obviously IS NOT a play cagey and gunline my opponent army. I just think combined arms is best for players like Simon who just have their army and want to roll dice without leaning into anything specific. These detachments aren't just army defining, they are play style defining. You need to Play like a mechanized assault IN mechanized assault. Also, HUGE props for throwing down the literal card of the unit you were using. NO ONE has the integrity to say "I can't have every single stat memorized, but I want to use my unit correctly, here's the card " omg I actually pogged. Edit: "This Detachment makes you build bad lists because it's not a list I would build." Is the exact mentality holding Simon back. Should a squad of Cadian shock troops getting out of a Chimera do any significant DMG to a BANEBLADE besides grenades. I don't think so either so what's the complaining about?? Edit: Post game thoughts: Mordian gets it again, 💯, "you start this list with 3 squad Kasrkin inside tauroxes and 3 scion squads in taurox primes." Yes and yes. Or even better take OGRYNS. Yall are sleeping on 3 man squads hopping outta advancing tauroxes with full rerolls and reroll wounds. Like the power is in the synergy of Strategems. I dont want to spread negativity, all I want to say is Simon saying "I see literally no reason to take this detachment over combined arms." He just doesnt have a growth mindset, like refusing to see why or where it can work. Or why his list didnt work. Just refusing to have an open mind you arent gonna look to actually improve your list nor get better at the game. And every time MG says, oh this unit would be good, Simon respons with "oh well now youre talking a 200 pt unit blah blah blah with no orders." That Rogal Commander was a 265 pt unit that did bugger all. For all players seeing this, mechanized has teeth but you have to sharpen them, and even then they arent the swiss army knife that does EVERYTHING, its very specific play style. I love MG being a learning platform for all us Guard players. We gotta figure out these detachments.

[@ZapFosho]

Thank you for putting it this way. Still listening to the battle report, but I can see this being an issue. I was looking at a mechanized guard list and was debating 6 chimera with 4 cadian shock troops and 2 scions, one with a command squad. Reading this and listening in, makes me think I should not go with mechanized assault because I didn't want to go with kasrkin or all scions. I wanted to lean towards basic infantry and occasional stormtroopers.

[@matureshrimp5192]

I completely agree and im glad someone put it in writing! Especially when he says "its a detatchment that makes you build bad lists" its just a detatchment that hes not used to and a style hes not used to trying. Im in the same boat as him with being a combined arms player and loving it, but i did have to recognise when looking at combined arms that the best thing i could do was to load up taurox primes with scions and tauroxes with kasrkin, or maaaaaybe catachan if I was really itching for more mobile infantry. And of course no disrespect meant to simon, in fact i really feel for him. I tried the siege regiment and within one turn realised i missed my lethals soo much and went back to combined arms instantly 😂

[@ThrowerofGames]

I agree with this I do think you can justify a “cagey” unit in Mechanised Assault would be ratlings shooting and re-embarking using shoot sharp and scarper for a +1 to wound with their 9x 3+ S4 -2 D2 and 1x big sniper

[@Mark_Batcheler]

Finally a video with the recon detachment, it’s getting ignored and I really want to see how it does

[@adamcarey7712]

I wanna see siege played by somebody competent. I’m doing okay with it but I’d like to see a deep dive on how to make it work best.

[@MordianGlory]

Siege Detachment coming in next batrep!

[@БОМБАСТИЧЕН]

@@MordianGlory Mordy being the man of the people!

[@Lattidude]

Simon is so done with your infantry corps speech 🤣

[@simone2095]

that is an understatement, i think i was done after the 2nd time! I swear he only does it to drive me crackers 🤬

[@joshuasutherland6692]

Catachan lascannon HWS in transport detachment sounds fun. Get the most out of the +1 to wound. Basicaly play a bunch of technicals.

[@rileyernst9086]

Soldiers of the 150th Rifles Recon battalion: Looks like we are going to be reinforced by a tank for this one boys. "What only one?" Looks over at the arriving tank support. "Fucking hell yeah."

[@agentcoriolis9208]

Finally something other than that bloody siege detachment 😂

[@francescogiovagnoli6549]

This Is the problem with the new detachments, they have to contend with Lethal Hits, which Is a hard task to pull off. I'll try the recon detachment today. Three 20 men shock troops full command squad and castellan, 2 Kasrkins, 3 combat Engineers, 20 Rough riders (2x5 and one 10 blob in reserve for rapid ingress) and 10 Sentinels (6 Scout, 4 armoured). I'll be against Wolves, so a melee army, i will try to stress test the detachment and see how It goes. Great game and great work as Always, keep It up!

[@Ph1lnomenal]

@@francescogiovagnoli6549 how did your game go?

[@francescogiovagnoli6549]

@Ph1lnomenal pretty well, It was a solid win. Tripwires + draw them out + tanglefoot granades were very strong in delaying relevant charges in his turn 2, even in a search and destroy deployment. T hey gave me the chance to preserve my firepower while using Sentinels to apply pressure and allow me to pick targets undisturbed. Losing Lethal hits was surely huge, expecially for the lasgun, but the detachment worked really well preserving the durability of my units.

[@dominicl5862]

Shoutout to Catachan Heavy Lascannons teams utilizing their rule and it actually translating into dmg

[@bweezybeech]

While the testing from the video is valuable. I think it's important to mention this is the first time with everything, and the mirror is a particular kind of matchup. If Simon was playing world eaters, the cover and extra saves would mean nothing, and their sheer speed would mean most of the anti melee tech wouldn't work well enough.

[@parko246]

Mechanised needs massive buff. Something like being able to reimbark after shooting as an army rule. It just seems so shit that you get out shoot with a buff. Then have to spend your next turn getting back in. So you really can only benefit once every 2 turns without spending a million CP for the strategems. It's just really struggling when compared with lethal hits.

[@T3koner]

mech guard vs. recce guard, Now that's soldiering sir

[@DiceandGlory]

The muzle breaks on simons russes is giving me palpatations

[@jamesmarlow8035]

Mech guard is the second strongest detachment after Bridgehead...in my opinion. You have to run Scions, Kaskrin, Ogryns and krieger Heavy Flamers. Bin off the tanks!

[@dominicl5862]

@@jamesmarlow8035 well said

[@philippr.9870]

Regarding the Precision question. Precision doesn't let you pick your target. It lets you allocate the wounds. So the best way would be to fast roll all your hits. fastroll all your wounds and then go one by one with allocating and saves to see, when the character is dead. (first melta. Second melta. dead) and the rest can be allocated as normally to the unit. Note that you cant pick out special weapons or Sergants with precision. ONLY characters. i think it was different in the past. At least thats how i understand the wording of this rule.

[@jakejohnson9552]

I think that for mech assault to really work, orders need to change

[@dominicl5862]

@@jakejohnson9552 elaborate? Because there's a strat that lets Infantry officers embarked inside a transport to issue essentially vehicle orders to other transports

[@jakejohnson9552]

@ the issue is with the timing of coming out of transports. They have the Kasrkin problem. There aren’t enough officers that can be put in the transports that can then come out and make the troops inside hit harder or more accurately. With only 12 spots in most transports Castellans are the only ones that can go in reasonably. Transports either need 15 spots so you can get a squad plus a command squad, or you need officers to be able to issue orders after the command phase natively. I had no desire to use kasrkin in transports before the new codex because I couldn’t use orders. I’m going to be reluctant to use any other kind of infantry in them in the mechanized detachment for the same reason. If I’m going to jump out an hit on 4’s I might as well have lethal.

[@dominicl5862]

@jakejohnson9552 Castellans get two orders so you can get out of transport two squads at a time. Or rely on Ogryns who don't need order. Creed is special Castellan who offers triple order.

[@jakejohnson9552]

@ and you then need to have the two to three squads be within 6 after popping out, and then you can only bring one to two of them back into their vehicles at the end of the next turn. You’re also then limited to Cadians, unless you are supercharging kasrkin, who will then also lose scout. It’s also further limiting because these officers, who cost nearly as much as the squad they lead, are also now up front and vulnerable to enemy fire. Having a Castellan up in a chimera “should” work, but it doesn’t. Because the Castellan has to get out of the chimera to issue the order instead of staying inside. (And of course if you use Ogryn you’re then not interacting with your army rule and it’s anti-synergistic which is a different issue.) I want this detachment to be a thing, I really, really do, but because orders have to happen in the command phase unless the officers pop out too, it doesn’t. We see it here, it’s a bunch of hoops to jump through for small benefits that you’d be better off in a different detachment for, and the fix is right there. I’m not saying a massive overhaul, just that orders need to work like the Kasrkin’s ability. Occurring at the top of a given phase, because it just doesn’t work as is. As an aside, I was watching the battle report and couldn’t help but think the whole thing is using a detachment to make a worse fish of fury, and that’s just sad.

[@schiffsmechaniker8061]

Cool battle report. Can't wait to try out the New detachments my self.

[@chriscook6547]

Seeing as the Krieg and Cadian HWT are on the smaller 50mm bases now the Catachans should be too

[@RotnDot]

Old grognard speaking here: I modelled my HWT on the 60mm they came with, there is no way I am rebasing them.

[@chriscook6547]

​@@RotnDot yeah it's a pain but I rebased mine to the smaller 50mm. Easier to hide but they definitely looked better on 60mm

[@doccroc5962]

With 21 heavy weapon teams, no way in hell i *could* rebase them, at least my 18 missile teams are on pairs of small infantry bases instead

[@Draganic2104]

I think the mechanized assault is meant for more elite infantry like ogryns, kasrkin, scions and maybe ratlings where the +1 tp wound is a higher break point.

[@RotnDot]

It's sad to see what is essentially a quintessential mech infantry army list playing so cluncky in the mech infantry detachment. The detachment looks good on paper, I'm wondering what an 'optimized' list would look like for this attachment, if the armoured fist squads are not doing a lot.

[@jordanbrown4779]

Mordian made a good observation. The mech detachment may be a pseudo grenadier detachment, focusing on protecting heavy hitting infantry.

[@texonmax8478]

So the base size of each type of heavy weapon squad are different now?

[@Brit18172]

Sorry Mordian but im team bale eye

[@viju_diju]

do they even playtest the detchments? "oh i have an idea! let's do it!" and the rules come out and the community is like: "what's this? it does not work."

[@briarsandbantams]

No, they really don't do much playtesting anymore. GW got rid of most of their playtesters some time ago. What playtesting they do prior to launch is outdated by the time a codex gets released to the public.

[@DakotaPoitras-z7z]

Leontus can order the titanic's again tho

[@TheTobaccoman]

Baneblade recon !?! It’s never been done ! Hurrah !!

[@aronrowley411]

I think the mech detachment infantry should get their bonus for being in a certain range of a transport instead

[@davidpidgeon7939]

Can someone explain the detail of the courageous diversion strat please. I am reading it as only the one unit has -1 to if it is the closest, but they were playing all other units if the selected unit is closest. I assume I am missing something along the line.

[@insanity90]

I recently went seige vs mech assalt and i was demolished by hobbits jumping in n out of chimeras, presision destroyed my orders. Wasnt a good time, but still had fun

[@nukeybrown5732]

I feel like the dice Simon uses are the exact same ones I have and I'm sure they are cursed that the average roll for the number of shots is always 2. But in the Guard we make do with what we have, not what want. Hot Take I think unfortunately Solar is an 80% auto include in our new detachments, as you need to be able to leverage all your 3 - 4 CP each turn.

[@MrMarlow1980]

A few pointers for salty Simon... Playing cagey is not a good move when you have vehicles vs infantry. On turn 2, every single vehicle could of moved forwards and charged every single unit. Supporting the infantry. Personally think it was a fool errand to even bother to deal with the baneblade. When it has a 2+/3+ save. Should concentrate on the infantry instead. Double heavy bolter chimeras are naff. Especially vs recon. In combined arms, then they are decent. Thos infantry would of had a 5+ save vs heavy flamers. You can redraw behind enemy lines for free on the first turn. Mech guard requires more CP. Solar, or Creed (or both) would of really helped. Cadians are rubbish. If they were kriegers, you would of been much better off. Rogal Dorn tank commander should probably have multi meltas. Reroll hits+wounds and damage! One multi melta on that baneblade would of ruined its day. I hope you give recon another go! But don't play like combined arms 😅

[@БОМБАСТИЧЕН]

Im seeing catachans being able to make a lot more use of the +1 to wound with their flamers. Might be something to look out for. Also Simon had a bad deployment and order deficit, you are right that simply plopping ye old mech guard list into Mech Ass is pointless. Honestly a bummer cuz its the quintessential Mech Guard detachment. On the flip side we have 2 more detachments that work plenty ok for us thread heads so Bridge and Mech Ass can stay the "disembark and shoot" detachments.

[@xiaoyihan4212]

You can’t use the grenade stratagem even if you can still shoot after falling back ! 😅

[@ericsmith5770]

Damn….i need a new chimera now

[@askeytheman]

48:43 - demolishers are D6+1 now right?

[@askeytheman]

1:22:40 - it's all good, it didn't get nerfed!

[@nedchirgwin2803]

@@askeytheman Two different weapons now, demolisher cannon on the Baneblade and all the Space Marine vehicles, Demolisher Battle cannon on the Russ chassis.

[@lintrichards6007]

Is there a source for Old World units like how you can get the 40k indexes for free? Would be a bit Ossum to organize a Tyranid force as an Old World style army.

[@parko246]

Super hyped for this I love the steel legion! Just finished the yarrick omnibus

[@5thlegion123]

Can I get the Mechanized List written out? I'm planning to go that route for my IG Army.

[@DeidaraTriops]

Dont copy this list its really bad

[@simone2095]

Don't use this list under any circumstance competitively , we ran it to see how a more traditional mech list works with the new detachment (spoiler : awfully)

[@pistoneteo]

Great video 🎉

[@skyeranger]

The thing is: If you have to run this with Elite Infantry ... then why not run Bridgehead in the first place ?

[@dominicl5862]

Because Bridgehead +1 to wound only works on Tempustus Scions where at Mech Ass gives +1 to wound to ALL INFANTRY. That includes Kasrkin and Ogryns. Both of which are missing from this bat rep so we don't get to see their potential. Bridgehead is all about Scions and using the uppy downy strat every turn to recycle units. Where as Mech Ass has huge strategem support for transports. You can order transports with infantry officers while they are inside, you can reactive move transports, you can reactive embark in transports, and you move after disembarking from transport. There's a lot of play and cool tech with Chimeras, Tauroxes, Taurox Primes, synergizing with Ogryns and Kasrkin. Bridge head has one thing that transports can use "advance and shoot".

[@skyeranger]

@@dominicl5862 So bridgehead is when you only want to play with your Scions and MechAssault you take when you want to play with all your other expensive toys.

[@dominicl5862]

@@skyeranger O7

[@joejps84]

​"Mech Ass" - I think they prefer to be call Skitarii​@@dominicl5862

[@LarpPaladin]

yea i think its plenty fine to do all the small dice rolls off camera. thumbs up f rom me! :D

[@DerKrampus-ou2ln]

Sweet

[@ZapFosho]

This makes me kind of sad. It makes me question what detachment to use to really make a steel legion detachment. Combined arms doesn't feel right and the one detachment that does feel right, doesn't fit the way you would try to make the list. Requiring elite infantry is hard to swallow. Makes me debate ditching base infantry and looking at artillery and tanks only.

[@Madlarkin00]

Mordian, you do realize the overcharge losses are not model that fired the shot right? You just roll all the over heats and do 3 damage to whoever you want if you fail, which with castellans going to 4 wounds means you can cheese 1 if you only fail 1.

[@BentJacket]

has to be a model who used a hazardous weapon. Common trick to fire a normal plasma gun too. hazardous are rolled at end and each 1 deals 3 to a hazardous. you dont roll model by model.

[@Madlarkin00]

​@BentJacket you are correct, I guess I didn't explain myself fully. Yes the fails have to be taken on a model that used a hazardous weapon. That's what I thought i implied by saying to just roll all your overheat "hazardous" checks and assign who you wanted it to, meaning that fired hazardous weapons.

[@BentJacket]

@@Madlarkin00 Then you were right in your thinking sir. Just making sure its clear, the dudes I play with mostly absorb rules from watchign vids and reading comments, so doing my part to make sure things are clear. Keep up the good work.

[@Gromeish]

Can't finish you move ontop of a terrain peice, unless you wholy fit.. First baneblade movement was illegal unfortunately.

[@rileyernst9086]

Terrain sucked. Mordian Glory terrain bonanza every time.