MORE D&D Youtubers Learn Pathfinder 2e! Abomination Vaults, Session #1

[@sfigge1355]

Not sure if you discovered this already, but divine focus can take the place of material components for clerics. From the cleric spellcasting text: Because you're a cleric, you can usually hold a divine focus (such as a religious symbol) for spells requiring material components instead of needing to use a material component pouch.

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

That is correct! Pinning.

[@robertswisher6311]

You can make your shield (with your gods symbol on it) your divine focus.

[@jltheking3]

@@robertswisher6311only if you took the emblazon armament feat

[@karhawk97]

Damn, I needed to watch it. Not made to be cinematic, not perfect, just people playing, which makes me feel I can try DMing as well

[@scott3013]

Blaine Simple has the best male doing female voice I've heard in a live play. Well done!

[@Gloomfall]

One thing that I think can help for Colby.. The two actions to grab a stowed object from a backpack is only for items that are actually properly stowed in the backpack. If you clip items like rope to the outside of a backpack or to various other harnesses you can access them much easier. As a GM I'd easily rule that anything you prepared ahead of time for use would only take an action to grab since you don't need to go looking for it. Though it has to make sense.

[@Gloomfall]

For Clerics, with Divine Spellcasting it mentions that you can typically hold your religious symbol in place of using a material component for that spell. I believe the exception to this are spells that list a specific material component that costs money. This makes Emblazon Armament incredibly useful for battle clerics!

[@jbark678]

Blaine's character voice is impressive

[@darkowl9]

On 5e feeling like having more movement: the attacks of opportunity that everyone gets I find tends to completely nerf that, because once you get in striking range you basically lock there. I've found with only a few classes and monsters have AoO, my players tend to use actions to move around more, which makes the combat _feel_ more dynamic. 5e is just rush up and rock-em-sock-em till one goes down.

[@cruciblegaminggroup5471]

That's something my players noticed right away when enemies would attack them and then move away freely (no fighters in the group), leading them on chases around the room, forcing the PCs into positions that were more ripe for flanking etc. The lack of everyone having an AoO opens things up a lot but you have to remember to take advantage of it.

[@fotipitrakkos1193]

"You must gather your party before venturing forth." ... "You must gather your party before venturing forth."

[@fistimusmaximus6576]

Best watch your actions while in these woods. My Inn is as clean as an elven arse.

[@KevinVideo]

I love that Blaine is playing an anime character. Very much suits his channel's style. Cayden Cailean is also The Drunken God, The Lucky Drunk, and The Drunken Hero. He didn't just wake up a god, he was blackout drunk and woke up a god without any memory of how he did so (and no hangover for the first time that he could remember). Even though he's human, my dwarf characters tend to worship him if Torag isn't a prominent deity in the area. I'm just as excited as Cody is to see him be a magus.

[@michaelb.garrison4314]

lord of the rapier!

[@michaelb.garrison4314]

that's a sword i hope

[@renzonunez6046]

But it doesn't fit the rest of the group, does it? I think it's fine if people want to play anime campaigns, but it's honestly very incosiderate to force one into a campaign where nobody is playing one. That honestly just feeds the stereotypes about anime fans.

[@-Fr0nt]

He said he went on a crazy bender and woke up a god. I don’t know if you were making a correction on the drunk part, but there wasn’t a need for one. That’s what “a crazy bender” implies.

[@NafenX]

When this showed up in my recommendations and I watched through to the end, I was looking forward to immediately queueing up the next episode only to find that this video is less than a day old D:

[@Gloomfall]

Another thing to mention for Rhexx. There are archetypes and class feats that allow him to use a shield much more readily. It can get to the point where you're either spending a reaction to raise your shield when actually needed all the way up to being considered always having a shield raised. Bastion is a great archetype for any shield based character. For Dwarven Warpriests specifically I tend to look at both Sentinel and Warpriest to take advantage of heavy armor and easily used shields. Low level is definitely a character coming into their own though. They don't have all of that fancy stuff yet. :)

[@peterstedman6140]

Champion feats can also help make a very sturdy cleric

[@ZombieApocalypse09]

Very cool to see another group trying out 2e for (many of them) the first time. I think Blaine's comparison to 5e action economy is unfair since they are using a house ruled version of inventory management. RAW in 5e, what they describe is not one turn. You can't pull an item out for free. In 5e raw, if you draw a single sword for example, that's a free action. But if you drink a potion or use another item that's your whole action. Even though it's one action it's more significant. Then you get into stuff like "object interactions" vs. "Free actions" vs. "main actions". It gets a bit confusing but you do end up using an Action and an object interaction for something like stowing a weapon to get a free hand to draw a rope. So RAW, I think item interactions are actually pretty similar. The thing is that most 5e tables just house rule that away and I think many 2e tables do that too to some extent (not as much the weapon drawing/stowing as that is integral to balancing things like free hands and getting wands out) as much as the getting out rope or a potion (I think to most people it's reasonable an adventurer might have rope or a potion on their belt or somewhere easily accessible and only take one action to draw it instead of two).

[@AdamDane]

Just want to chime in that managing undetected/hidden/detected/observed is radically easier if you apply the Foundry conditions rather than just kind of remembering, but it is still just as tough to remember what conditions apply to what characters. Fingers crossed for a module that lets you set the current relationships to each other player.

[@LightningRaven42]

The action economy will feel less oppressive when you guys are in the tighter rooms and corridors moving forward into the Gauntlight. The issues with climbing and balancing will be more rare. I'm actually surprised Paizo had such a rich encounter. Their combats are often flat rooms that are small (4x4) to mid-sized (8x8) without a lot obstacles.

[@rayoman67]

Mr. Rhexx must remember that anyone can use a shield. Also, after playing a Champion the shield can be powerful with the right features and feats using the shield to block damage or punish enemies.

[@treboreroom124]

Lucky number 600 so cool!!😊

[@cruciblegaminggroup5471]

Always interesting to see new folks learning the game. I'm new myself so videos like this help me to see things I can better explain to my players as we go. Thanks!

[@MrCapitalOrange]

i agree with the inventory management takes that came up at the end. in my games, i decided to allow players to grab things for one action, ignoring the extra action of rummaging through your pack. I dont like when there are actions that don't really have an actionable outcome. I do the same thing for weapons (ie you can switch weapons as one action, rather than stow/draw). It just helps smooth out some of those awkward turns, and makes it feel alot less clunky. However I also get wanting to stick to the rulebook, especially one that's as good as 2e's.

[@rainey82]

I was discussing “actual plays” on Reddit, and I was happy to recommend your series because of your strong grasp of the rules supplemented by your post-production *addenda. I fall into the camp of many actual play streamers where I “wing” or hand-wave rules for the sake of maintaining inertia and rhythm. Thank you for helping me to better grasp how to GM for new players while also teaching gameplay mechanics.

[@GryphonDes]

What a fun cast you have assembled and such a fun campaign to dive into - good luck all - this is going to be pretty Epic! Was a great way to appreciate that skillls really do matter in PF. Also fwiw - at my table and many I have played with the whole 'if it aint impactful do not ROLL' is the byword :D

[@alexpage5268]

Anyone who is thinking about the Warpriest should really play the Cleric+ bounded caster version from Pathfinder Infinite (has FoundryVTT and Pathbuilder Support). It gives you the full martial armour/weapon progression, uncouples font from CHA, and is a good foil to the magus. A much better port of the PF1e Warpriest than what Paizo did and completely balanced (basically a divine magus with spell strike restructured to something else to make it play considerably differently).

[@Kiaulen]

I'm currently running 5e, but I got the core rulebook and beginner box and I'm hoping my group (we meet monthly) will try pf2e out with me. I agree that the action tax is punishing sometimes, but it sure made this combat more interesting. In 5e, a group of level 1 characters would probably have a warlock/wizard using eldritch blast or firebolt, a cleric using sacred flame, and any melee characters making a DC 10 athletics to use their move to climb up to the rafters and smack the mitflits. And the wizard might have gone down in one dart before the fight really began.

[@RadeFoxxy]

Thank you all involved for this great lesson!

[@soldier660]

Blaine familiar looks like a Kingdom hearts character.

[@SheenaTigerspielt]

3:02:00 yeah, issue with this in D&D is what Blaine said himself. A lot of DM's might do it that way, getting things from the backpack, changing weapons and so on. But that is not as the rules state it as far as I remember. PF2e: put weapon away, get new weapon, attack ... 1 round D&D: put weapon away, get new weapon, wait for next round That is, from my memory... thanks to the myriad kind of Actions in D&D this might be wrong but unless you drop a weapon I see 1 Standard Action and 1 Move Action in use.

[@telapathetic9944]

It feels like many of the concerns I'm hearing are regarding systems and things in 5e that are a bit more "rules light" or are so fiddly most DMs play it a bit loose, were in PF they're just clearly defined. I know at my own 5e table I'm sure if you ask myself and the rest of my table to explain backpack/item access in combat you're going to get 5 different answers. Blaine seems to see that 5e has some spots where that stuff just gets hand waived but when you have clearly written rules it's much easier for a GM/DM to just say nope that's not how it works. While it can feel bad it's not really a limitation of the system it's an expectations issue.

[@SheenaTigerspielt]

@@telapathetic9944 I dug out my barely ever used 5e players handbook and looked around. It is defined... kinda. More loose as usual in 5e compared to PF2. What I read is: 1. as "Other activities" you could handle 1 object ... examples given include drawing or sheathing a sword or taking a potion from the backpack (I want to see the authors doing that, fishing out 1 specific item from a likely full backpack on their back in 6 seconds AND move AND Standard-Act like attack... just for logic sake) 2. the "Use an Object"-Action comes into play when you want to handle more than 1 object. Since "stuffing your mouth with food" and "handing an item to another character" are examples given for 1 I'd say drinking the potion from the backpack equals the whole Standard Action. Changing weapons as well. Leaving only the move action for that character that turn. That is how I would interpret the rules as written. That is not how I expect every table to handle things. If played as close as possible to the rules as written (which are an offer by the creators to give everyone a common ground, not a law) I'd say PF2e wins this spot, even though it all costs 1 action. Looking at something else though, 5e wins the Action-Economy... opening a damn door! PF2e: move to the door, open the door, move through the door... 3 Actions D&D5e: move to the door, open it while you are moving, use the rest of your movement... the Standard Action is not touched, opening the door is part of "point 1" further up. Just to make things clear once more, I talk "rules as written" (and understood by me) not how I expect people to interpret or change to fit their style. Honestly, for changing weapons I would totally jump onto the wagon and do it more loose ^^ Cursing with my Hunter in PF1... changing weapons when enemies close in on him is horrible. I have to drop my bow every time...

[@FrozenLavaDragonProd]

You are correct, Rules as written in 5e you can only interact with one object for free, then you must use your action to interact with any other objects.

[@Whrait72]

I can't help myself but laugh when I see MrRhexx speak but doesn't recognize he's been muted for the whole time

[@comfortablegrey]

This here is the honest proof of how much set-up and hotkey experience it takes to get Foundry to do the heavy lifting. Around 1:50:30 the Rules Lawyer talks about preferring to do mental math, still the fastest method! GG to everyone.

[@Year2047]

I really enjoyed this. It made me feel a lot more comfortable playing a thaumaturge as my first character.

[@Delboy_1999]

Thaumaturge is hella fun to play, I hope you enjoy it!

[@mikesvideos66]

i always thought a good way to explain thaumaturge is a "Witcher".

[@soldier660]

d4 decided to play magus he he, happy to see, but i have the feeling he is not gonna like the action economy and incrible low number of slots. but good Luck guys ^^ !!!

[@KevinVideo]

I was ecstatic to see Cody play as magus. I hope he's happy playing it.

[@Boiled_Pizza]

i wonder if he's playing it because he's thinking of adapting his bladesinger build to pf2e, even though magus does not play like a blade singer at all 😅

[@Kajiyaification]

@@Boiled_Pizza no cody is smart enough to know hes not supposed to copy over builds because its two different systems

[@OtandaGaming]

Until you can get hasted

[@Joeys-Channel]

Just about to run this so good timing also!

[@kevinb5417]

"Mostly Tasteful Erotica" would make a great album name.

[@undrhil]

Yeah, no. In 5th edition, if you pull something out of your backpack that is an item interaction of which you get one per round. Usually it can be done alongside a movement or an action like attacking. So you can draw your weapon and attack in the same turn. However you cannot, in general, draw out 2 weapons and attack in the same turn. Drawing the 2nd weapon would use your action for the term.

[@sfigge1355]

Mr. Rexx might want to switch classes to champion. If he really wants to focus on DR, champion is the king of DR for others and self. AND he can still play the exact same type of character as he currently is playing minus access to the heal font. But he would get lay on hands, which isn't as good, but still provides some healing.

[@grinningbuck]

My friends and I are playing this adventure now - Can't the champion just refocus every so often and regain his lay on hands? Asking for reference, since that's how we played it

[@matthewjamesmjw4172]

I can't watch this because I'm starting abomination vaults soon myself - but I will watch when I'm done!

[@fistimusmaximus6576]

that music sounds like vandal heart, great game

[@ChristopherGibson-hs1wu]

Mr. Rhexx, what you're looking for is either Bastion quick shield block, or Champion's quick block. Sadly, Clerics do NOT have a way to get the Fighter's Paragon's Guard to raise their shield for free. IMO, you want to get the Champion's REACTION.

[@draggo69]

Nice!

[@raylendt]

i disagree with all their comments on skill feats just being flavour...they are absolutely critical to the success/failure to a truly optimizing.

[@raylendt]

raise a shield action makes you appreciate your fighter more, who, with feat choices, can do it all for free. But a combat cleric with shield, is very unoptimized. So, there is that as well.

[@havokmusicinc]

unfortunately this is 5e-brain messing with their expectations a little bit

[@StabYourBrain]

@@havokmusicinc It's a process to get used to 2e coming from 5e. I bet they'd play it way more elegant and would be less frustrated if they did it again today.

[@rayoman67]

I agree with Colby. I hate Milestone progression. I like gathering XP so you can see some kind of progression.

[@masacio]

I think the problem people are having with milestones, is the DM's don't know how to use them. As a long time player, you instinctively know when it's about time to level, after a certain amount of time or encounters, especially of significance. That's when the party should be leveled. Not when some campaign marker has been met. I mean, you can level them then too. But waiting for that is the mistake. Keeping track of xp is a pain.

[@StabYourBrain]

@@masacio Keeping track of XP is only a pain in 5e, because of the ridiculously high XP numbers. In Pathfinder XP is scaled with Monster Level relative to PC Level and only requires 1000 XP for every level. Meaning that weaker monster will be worth less XP the higher you level (and eventually worth no xp once you've outleveled them too much) and stronger Monsters become more widely available for you to defeat, while the math stays exactly the same for each level.

[@titan9720]

Hey great session. One small critique I have is that someone from the players should show the battles since the viewer shouldn't see what the dm sees.

[@Oniphire]

1:04:53 I'll be a little sad if there's anyone who didn't get that reference. Maybe they just didn't want to take up time commenting on it.

[@yuven437]

Banderdash lying?! Thats a sarenrae anathema! :0

[@Notsogoodguitarguy]

To Colby's point - yeah, Movement is an action, while in D&D you have a free movement each turn. But, on the other hand, in D&D, if you can't reach what you need in one movement, you're screwed. You gotta waste your whole action, or do something subpar. Whilst in PF2e, if you can't reach in 1 action, you can use a second, and you have an action to attack.

[@bleysingram7789]

Lol...Georgie and the Nut!

[@raylendt]

also, don't forget Assurance Acrobatics with steady balance, for auto-crits

[@cheezeofages]

That doesn't work. Steady Balance says "when you roll". You don't roll with Assurance. See CRB 2nd printing errata where they use the text "when you roll" to keep an ability that upgrades saves from working with other abilities that upgrade saves. When it says "when you roll" it doesn't work if you got the result from something that isn't a roll.

[@raylendt]

@@cheezeofages doh, thank you good sir for the clarification. damn i love this system. Is that then the same with Risky Surgery and Assurance Assurance Medicine?

[@Django_Untrained]

​@@raylendt yup, but in this case it's "if you roll". Same deal though

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

@@cheezeofages Haha I feel they have they some optimizers/powergamers/stress-testers on staff. WOTC could learn that lesson as they develop 6e.

[@DCXCIII]

I was starting to think that this playthrough wouldn't actually happen

[@miraclemaker1418]

So as a fledgling DM myself, is it really a good idea for 2 players to wait for the other 3 to finish their roleplay before their characters even get introduced? I think I wouldn't appreciate waiting 20 minutes just to get my character introduced.

[@redono12]

That's something I try to avoid as much as possible whenever I DM a new game, although it depends on how well you know your players and if they're okay with listening to others roleplay a bit more before they come into the story. I try to either have the party already know eachother before the campaign begins or have them all be brought together at once at the start of the campaign (All in a tavern and something happens, summoned to see the ruler of the place they're in, all passengers on a ship, etc.) to smooth out the start. Another thing is the online play format kind of bottlenecks the amount of roleplaying that can happen among the group while the DM's attention is with a specific player, which can kind of drag things along a bit more than at at table.

[@Eladelia]

In a typical game I'd say no it's not a good idea. These people are all experienced TTRPG players, some of them experienced GMs, so I think their comfort with that kind of thing is probably not typical of your average random player. Definitely the kind of thing people should communicate with each other about, though, to make sure they're in sync about what kind of game they want.

[@CC-gy7el]

As a fledgling GM? Probably not. For a more experienced GM with more experienced players it depends on the group and their preferences.

[@Capt.Thunder]

It depends on the players. Imo it's very lightweight behaviour to be jealous of other people roleplaying, but some people do have a cripplingly low attention span. Just being patient for 10-20mins out of a 2-4hr session is chump change, and you get a better party dynamic out of it in exchange. More people are at the table than just you - it's only when it becomes a pattern that it causes problems.

[@johngleeman8347]

@@Capt.Thunder Yeah. If the player enjoys roleplaying the most out of all the three pillars of play, they'll likely enjoy watching others have at it for a long time without complaint. The lower they rank roleplay out of the three pillars the quicker you should try and give them a prompt/carrot/in.

[@Rashagar]

MonkeyDM switching back to his normal accent was almost jarring haha!

[@Martick05545]

How do I watch the full sessions for these campaigns?! I believe its through patreon but what level do I need to subscribe to?

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Tier 2+ For sessions 3 and later!

[@yuven437]

Will the character sheets be available in the discord or something? 😁

[@theshadowcult]

What things in 5e let you just do things?

[@OhMeGaGS]

Why only first 2 episodes will be here? Where can I see more?

[@TheRulesLawyerRPG]

Those will be on the Patreon. (Sorry, updated the video description)

[@helixxharpell]

No offense guys, much respect to all of you, but this is why I love playing in person so much better.

[@theangler1922]

All of the KZbinrs are so rude. Wouldn't want to play with anyone but The Dm Lair.

[@Tusitala1967]

As charming as all this is, if that dwarf says "Give me the meat, and give it to me raw", I'm outta here.

[@midasii2632]

4 iteresting pple and weeb XD