The craziest Mario speedrun drama

Patterrz Reacts to • The Many Scandals of M... The Many Scandals of Mario Speedrunning
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[@Phantom_User]

“like seeing your girlfriend get ripped apart by wolves-“

[@lostsauce911]

Same

[@raichnl330]

Yes

[@gunsandroses896]

Kinky~

[@lostsauce911]

@@gunsandroses896 no

[@hybridvenom9]

@@lostsauce911 Yes

[@JaggerG]

The Mario Kart 64 drama here is interesting because it’s a very different dynamic from most other speedrunning. Number of records is just so much more significant in games like this, because you basically start toppling records like dominos once you’ve gotten good enough to take one. But for full games, competition seems much more often inclined to celebrate alongside each other, not go behind each other’s backs. On top of the inherent differences in categories, the Mario Kart leaderboards had been hosted on a specialized site, separately from typical runs you hear about from Speed Demos Archive, so they literally had a separate community from the get go. I actually took part in a short-lived record battle in a Mega Man Gameboy game. Back in 2014, Tremane made it his mission to get the records of all 5 games. He had been close, only needing MMV, and I just so happened to have been practicing MMII for a GDQ submission (it didn’t get in that year). He beat me by like 20 seconds, so I’m like, “Ooh, there must be some tricks to learn!” So I ended up beating him, and he beat me back. After another back and forth, I just conceded abruptly. He got so sad, and even DMed me begging for more competition. :^< I kinda felt bad, but I’m just not interested in being as good as him. Naturally, he did get all 5 records shortly after, and apparently is still 2nd in MMII today, as I’ve plummeted to 9th. The point is, I admired his first record that beat my first record, but I never really cared about having a record. I mainly loved learning games, and I’d seen just enough time loss in his run, so I aimed to encourage him just a little further out of love for the category. My ultimate goal is merely that a really cool run exists, be it by me or someone better, then I just move on. I had other fish to fry, like orchestrating an elaborate scheme to make people think I’m good at Metroid Fusion.

[@TecTitan]

It's obviously not cheating or breaking rules but I think there's a concept in speedrunning where the community is cooperating as well as competing. To ignore the way most people operate within the circle purely for personal gain and keep secrets is allowable and nobody should stop you, but I can understand people not being excited about it. People liked that "rising tides raises all ships" quote from the pyramid head girl drama. It applies here. Patterrz just doesn't operate as a speedrunner and he only seems to be concerned with whether or not something breaks a rule. And that's normal and expectable and I don't think anyone should be upset with that.

[@angelsalinas17]

"Join/Come with us to watch our friend Tavo Betancourt play in a relaxed and fun way this legendary videogame of Super Mario from the 80's incredibly in only 5 minutes. You can't miss it." Is the exact translation although "de" can have 5+ meanings depending on context so it wont be EXACT but the wording is as precise as possible. P.S. Yes I will put this comment in the OG video

[@ARDIZsq]

I feel like hording records and then releasing them all at once is kind of a dick move. Speedrunning is really just about having fun and trying to improve, and just having someone dump all of this progress at once is kind of unfair for everyone else. What if he had found some sort of crazy skip that would benefit everyone? I feel like there was definetly an overreaction to it, but it's all a contest too. Holding out until the very end is kind of just disrespectful to everyone else going against you. At the end of the day, it's nothing too serious and some people definetly went too far, but I feel like you just shouldn't do that kind of thing to begin with.

[@niedas3426]

I think it would also influence the motivation of competitors heavily. Why aim for the record if at any point im time, someone could come and dump a better time that they horded, basically invalidating the success of having made it to first place? It would also be frustrating in the sense that you could never know if it would be worth it to even grind since you would have no way of knowing how far ahead the competition is and make goals to beat them irrelevant.

[@BetaJackMaxis]

It's NOT cheating, but it IS poor sportsmanship.

[@FrozenInIce]

This dan dude wanted to win so won by default because he hoarded his records hide them so nobody could challange him. Like breaking an oponants leg so they cannot win the 100 meter dash against you.

[@FrozenInIce]

Speedrunning is about compatition not winning thats why people are pissed nobody could try to beat his record without the knowlage of the time. So this move is no diffrent then punching a hero while he gives his friendship monolog.

[@TheBomberman122]

Good, you shouldn't monologue.

[@parttimesaint3165]

Hmm.. I can see how people find entertainment in watching a speedrunning record go higher and higher and watch two people fight to the top of peak gaming. Instead they got a dead channel for a year and a quick flare that died in a few days. Imagine a fantastic show going on hiatus for a year and then drop half an episode saying "yeah, we're done. Bye". It's not about getting a super detailed half an episode with insane CGI after a year, it's about losing the whole year of content. It's about the community cheering each other on and encouraging each other to be the best. But maybe I'm missing the point, who knows?

[@IbukiLazuli]

First dude's a genius... Show me the rule where you have to submit your times ASAP? This is an amazing way to get records in racing games like Mario Kart. He didn't cheat, he didn't lie about things, he did everything fairly

[@itztaytay2]

He didn't break any rules but he was part of a wide community effort of keeping anyone from achieving the (at the time) never before seen having 32/32 world records all at once. There were literal years of them trying to keep Matthias from doing it by grinding times they found potentially beatable and making records he didn't have yet harder, and Dan knew that they would try to stop him if he ever tried to go for the full 32/32 also. So he decided to hoard records until he could claim the 32/32 all at once because that was the only way he would ever get it instead of beating the other runners fairly like Matthias very nearly did (at his highest point he missed 32/32 because one of his records was taken an hour before he got the last). Also by winning like this he entirely ruined the community goodwill, there was no cash prize or anything, so all he really won is a title to his name and infamy amongst his peers.

[@TheBomberman122]

​@@itztaytay2read your whole reply and all I got from it was that he was smart. If they didn't want people to do this they should've just implemented a simple ruling against this behavior, don't try to call it out because you didn't have the foresight to prevent it. People will always try to game the system.

[@getshwifty3101]

Speedrunners: *Trying to escape Intrusive Thoughts* I'm gonna try to beat this World Record! Me: *Just vibing with the Intrusive Thoughts* When most people stand by a high ledge, they apparently feel an urge of throwing themselves, but.....how long would it take to actually fall?? Like, would you have enough time for the adrenaline to wear off, and start panicking? Or would you manage to die before actually realizing the consequences??

[@TheBomberman122]

Obviously depends on the height of the fall, tf?

[@zalo_1]

1:56 also the theme song for the super mario bros super show was used in the mario movie so theres that

[@hunterotte9555]

Harassing over Mario kart: overdramatic and kinda sad on everyone's account, but whatever. Actually tracking someone down irl over cheating at Paper Mario: ... Kindly cease to be, please. You're wasting the oxygen people who actually deserve to be here need.

[@TheBomberman122]

While I agree that there are lines that shouldn't be crossed, I also feel like you get whatever you deserve once you open the floodgates by cheating or doing anything you know is wrong. Seems a bit extreme? Sure I will admit that, but then I remember that if this person just didn't do a bad thing nothing would've happened in response. It's that simple, don't cheat or be dishonest.

[@hunterotte9555]

@@TheBomberman122 it's been a year so I forget the context. But uhh, no. Hard disagree, and I would rather support cheating than that nonsense from reading my comment.

[@L4ZERGD]

Saw the stream! Should def do more

[@CC-df3pn]

So the reason people took issue with the hoarding of MK64 records is because yeah speedrunning is about getting records... But above that it's about community and friendship and a love of videogames, pushing the game you all collectively love to it's limits. As such there's unspoken sportsmanship between runners, because why would you at to employ underhanded measures to just win? People with that mindset don't fit with the larger mold of speedrunning. By withholding records that were beaten, Dan prevented fair competition and didn't allow other runners to compete with their times in a timely manner, instead just dropping a ton of records at once. Which also would be incredibly demoralizing to other runners as well. All in all its just a dick move all around in a space that is supposed to be about friendly rivalries and just enjoying games

[@johnark4723]

This is like an Olympian winning a competition, then people get mad because they didn't post workout pictures on Instagram. Are speedrunners incapable of speedrunning unless they aren't at the top? If everyone else stayed stagnant just because 1 person wasn't speedunning, then it isn't about self improvement and a healthy competition. It's about being better than someone. At the end of the day, someone shouldn't be forced to post anything, for arbitrary reasons, and shows a severe obsession.

[@CC-df3pn]

@@johnark4723 the whole point of speedrunning has always been about sharing times and pushing eachother forwards as a community. Yes people push for the best times but it's far more than that basic want. Again there's a level of sportsman like behaviour and keeping to a fair competition that all speedrunners typically keep to, hence why runners were jot the fondest of the hoarding and the eventual change in the rules. Speedrunning generally prioritises the community and what is healthiest and most fun for the runners over absolute pinnacle or peak anything and using any tactic to win

[@johnark4723]

@@CC-df3pn Does every speedrunner want to be active in the community? Last time I checked, socializing isn't sportsmanship. Being polite is sportsmanship. What you said doesn't even apply to other speedrunning communities. The Fallout community has had members that have beaten the world record but decided to not post it, and instead ground the time until it was leagues better. Then shocked everyone.

[@CC-df3pn]

@@johnark4723 of course each community will have its own intricacies, but in my experiences the push for a fair competitive friendly space and good sportsmanship is the norm. And again, the MK64 community by and large agreed Which is why the rules changed.

[@loneranger7831]

@@johnark4723 let's say your in an eating competition and you and someone else are tied then they give up and you eat two more. Now after you decided to stop the person reveals the actually secretly ate ten more earlier with out anyone knowing so you lose. Let's say that it wasn't against the rules, that is exactly what happened here.

[@skywalkerjohn8965]

By giving other participants no chance to contest against is a dick move imo

[@amia7z]

at this point if you don't start a speedrunning video with HOME you're doing it wrong

[@Chaosking5445]

what web browser do you use to control the master volume

[@MendedPearl]

omfg the whole ace attorney bit killed me

[@MrJWTH]

Another factor regarding the Holy Molly Molly cheating scandal was there was a video about cheating in speedrunning which have had over 600,000 views and specifically discussed Mario 64 splicing and now it was detected not long before he brought up his old cheated run. To my knowledge it was never confirmed whether or not they influenced the desire to investigate his run but I wouldn’t be surprised if it did.

[@bobwaka1]

After watching this video I’d say unless you’re gonna be a straight laced speedrunner you might as well cheat since the community will treat cheaters, jokes, and bad sportsmanship all the same.

[@roka9963]

Speedrunning isn't always just start to finish. Segmented speed runs exist.

[@CassiusStelar]

Segmented runs don't *really* exist anymore Sure sometimes people upload sum of best videos to show what they're capable of, but people don't really submit segmented runs to the boards. Speed Demos Archive is long dead

[@kristinborn8882]

As a plactions speedrunner (who would have 4th if I recorded my 3:21 time), if someone hoarded all 24 individual levels' 1st places (which is unlikely because speedrunning plactions is pretty much dead at this point) and then submitted all 24 at once, I wouldn't be too mad, because they got the records, they get the 1st places.

[@EddieB-ready]

The reason why withholding times is seen as a complete dick mov by the Speedrunning community is mostly due to the fact that records that stay unchallenged for long tend to stagnate, interest drops, and whatnot, oh, and a new record means that things that were deemed as impossible, or too hard to achieve may have been made mor possible with each new record. So it's basically a case of just overall not being very sportsmanlike and withholding info that'd improve the Speedrun from the other runners

[@syntrix7360]

patterz was spitting bars no cyap

[@Yoshigamingchannel]

Burbank is a city in California which is in the us so Dan Burbank would live in Burbank

[@Skew0443]

im a speedrunner, and ive been hording all my runs since i started because i didnt have a capture card. i now have one, but i think i will wait until i get a place worthwhile posting about. wow, im so low on the mario odyssey board that my computer can't load how low my place is. for sure worth posting. no, im not hording records. im a child.

[@lucassousa-nm1qm]

More speed run Patt please

[@hamzahkhan4067]

24:36 did I just get f'ing Weezed in a Pattterz video about Mario 64 speed running? WTF.

[@dantez.6462]

Latin american viewer here to talk about the Badabun stuff, old channel hated by everyone for lying, being stupid, stealing content, false copyright claims and stuff like that, the latinamerican version of 5 minutes craft fused with those elsa video channels and Jake Paul

[@timalechkevitch4566]

MASSIVE L take on the Mario Kart 64 records. Total dick move from Dan

[@stephengleason3059]

There os nothing wrong with the Mario kart one.

[@violetasanchez6368]

12 minutes!

[@lostsauce911]

9:51 it would be less of an ego move you’re doing the Same thing as everyone else but you already know you’re the best you just post it later to slow the competition while their learning what you did right you’ve already perfected it

[@ribbonfly]

I don't know about the first one. A win is a win I guess.

[@fauzanabdurrahman4624]

E

[@mikeclark7026]

I LITERALLY don’t see how you can’t see how huge of a deal this was… (The MK64 Horde). He should have been thrown out of the community and probably banned by the speed run mods that approve runs…

[@RaphielShiraha64]

It's literally just a dude grinding records and posting them at once, he didn't even use cheats at all, i really don't see why it's a huge deal. If anything they should be proud of his efforts of grinding for a entire year in order to get records. That's like complaining your son decided to study for 1 month by themselves, instead of studying slowly over time with friends. I absolutely disagree not only i think this isn't wrong, saying he should have been banned, and overall attacking him and offending after all the effort he did, is absolutely toxic.

[@leoleonvids]

​@@RaphielShiraha64i do think it's kinda wrong, since mk64 speedrunning was mostly just competing for the fastest time on all tracks, if this was a different game where people didn't care about how many tracks they had the fastest time for it would've been different as an outsider, the reaction to what dansgame did seems fucking _insane_ though, especially since the dude apologized seemingly sincerely

[@Cheatrunner]

First 😊

[@Phantom_User]

Btw ur 5th

[@oksure9261]

I’m no speedrunner, but it’s kind of cringe to: 1. Cry that someone used underhanded but legal methods to get a *title*. 2. Use underhanded but legal methods to get a *title*.

[@johnnyanderson2-roblox185]

Bro, dan got that fair and square. Mathaius could easily regain those records so I don't see the big deal, it's not like he hacked someone. In my opinion, there was nothing to be sorry about as nothing wrong was committed, shady but not wrong, no broken rules. Honestly, mathaius and the associated fans should feel ashamed for forcing someone to retire, supremely uncool and toxic.

[@kfed9834]

They were sending pizzas to their house but not paying for them so it was basically forcing them to pay for the pizzas or try to awkwardly tell the delivery guys that they didn't buy them and bother the businesses.. its arguably one of the worst things you could do that isn't swatting cause you're causing issues with multiple parties.. like sure Chibi cheated and may have been sus, but swatting or doxxing people is literally the worst thing anyone could do to someone, super cringe reactions to someone cheating at a speedrun

[@Inquizitive-]

They don’t pay for it??

[@MiamiTots]

what pizza places still allow you to order delivery without paying ahead of time?

[@kfed9834]

@@MiamiTots last I remember most pizza places still accept payment when they deliver, usually paying ahead of time is just an optional thing, though to be fair last time I ordered Pizza was like 2018 so idk, that's just how it used to be lol

[@master_swish]

Pat it's not that he has the records for the day, it's that he was the first one to get 32/32 tracks all at once. He prevented Mathias from achieving the goal even if Mathias was a better runner by not letting him contest it, and prevented the anti 32 group from stopping someone from getting all 32. Even if Mathias can easily beat all the records again, he won't be able to be the first to get 32/32

[@noremac7216]

I feel like he found the winning strat and everyone else is a bit whiny

[@Altoryu]

@@noremac7216 What he didn't isn't really against the rules but it was shitty and unsportsmanlike regardless to hoard those times and rob Matthias of the chance to get 32/32 the hard way. Pretty sure the Anti 1 alliance made some sort of agreement to not stoop to such levels but Dan did it anyways and was rightfully called out for it.

[@master_swish]

@@noremac7216 nah. What he did shows he was afraid he would lose easily. If he posted the records when he got them, which he should've, he would've been beaten as soon as he posted them. Instead he hud his records so noone else could beat them. It's not like they were racing in secret, they were all trying to beat scores as they came out to hold them, meaning if you hid yours away then while other's were focused on something else(especially when you're openly running that track to them but not the other you hold), you're stealing that competition from them and preventing them from actually contesting it. And then you add on the fact he was a part of the group that was preventing the 32/32? Only for him to turn around and take it? Don't defend shitty behavior even if it's legal.

[@noremac7216]

@master_swish I guess I just like sneaky. Maybe if I was invested in the community more it would offend me on some personal level, but as far as I'm concerned he gamed the system and won in the most hilarious way

[@master_swish]

@@noremac7216 fair enough. to me i like shortcuts and no holds barred myself, but only when they're actually speed running lol

[@Kirby_Super]

"You cannot lose this" is a mistranslation, It is more like "You cannot miss this"

[@Ezra09_]

Dan was also a major hypocrite. He was part of the A1A alliance, a group of speedrunners working to make sure that someone couldn't hold every record at the same time, then went behind everyone's back because he knew that same group of speedrunners would try to stop him too.

[@0potion]

as far as I can tell about the whole situation everyone in this instance is a hypocrite. And I love hearing all these people not in the speed running community talking about how it's about friendship and togetherness and all that crap when from what I've experienced of it people are petty and backstabby as fuck unless the game is old as hell and everyone already knows all the tricks.

[@Charziken]

Pat surprised at a game from 2013 being still around is kinda funny to me. I know of a game that is quite literally a 20th of it's size and has somehow been around since 2010. This isn't a flex of any kind, it's just kinda funny to me.

[@sakurakitsune1492]

I know a game that's been out since 2008 and still has a dedicated, but admittedly small, fanbase that plays regularly. Most people give the game flak for being a pay-to-play game with a monthly membership to be able to progress, but I'd argue it's worth the $10 for 1 month to play.

[@DecayedPony]

While watching a video about a game that came out over 25 years ago

[@themike370show]

In the mk64 story it was the fact that he stole something no one else will ever be able to clain and that's the first to have 32/32 records. The crazy comparison would be turning off everyone's alarm clocks before a competition so no one will show up.

[@michaelrose3625]

I remember i used to get suggested a bunch of Badabun videos (i'm from mexico so i get suggested stuff in spanish) but i was never interested in their content, they really feel like just "content farming" stuff and probably lost a lot of views after people found out most of their content was usually stolen from other sources

[@x-0hero4]

you know little to nothing about their evil, good for you

[@m0002856]

As somebody from America, I want to make it ABDUNDENTLY CLEAR that I'm pretty sure the people who rolled the Germans in WWII was literally the Germans themselves when they decided to go poke the Soviet Union for like zero reason. Well, okay I'm probably being slightly disingenuous here, but I think our greatest contribution was D day and pushing back the front lines. Pretty sure if they hadn't fucked themselves over, the war would have been a LOT closer. The Soviet Union rolled their asses over and they went from Blitzkrieg hyper fast victory to me that time I got Salmonella poisoning from Taco Bell's green onions (which is why they stopped putting green onions on anything back in the early 2000s btw look that shit up it was horrific and people died from this). Shit started going wrong at both ends, and I just had to deal with it.

[@fuhuaherrscherofsentience8424]

Peoples: make funny videos for kids Teens:that absolutely bullsh If it bullsh why you even bother to watch it in the first place? It were made for kids

[@Nathan55411]

Man the fact that people got upset over the MK64 thing is insane. People really out here getting mad over literally anything huh.

[@potatoe972]

1:45 Yeah that’s nostalgia. I used to watch it as a kid all the time, but watching it now, it just kinda sucks

[@the_uncreatives1451]

i watched that super mario super show it was such a classic

[@Divine.Lion08]

Super Mario bros super show, was the shit!

[@KenBladehart]

There are bunch of MMOs and gacha games that are actually been running for almost or over 10 years

[@dynosgarcia7645]

If what Dan did was unmoral and hurt the community because he kept those records for himself in order to try and get the perfect 32, then Matthias was no better Matthias could have honed any one record and show the community what the limits of any one track was and showed great tactics to everyone, but no, he kept all his talent and knowledge hidden every time until someone else threatened his chances for a perfect 32 (and he did this for more than 1.5 years)

[@0potion]

Finally someone who sees the hypocrisy. If you just look at the history of speed running it has always been particular speed runner's hoarding techniques until others figure it out and then start to compete with them. Like yes there are plenty of games where people will actually give pointers to new speed runners and teach their tricks to them. But the vast majority of the serious world Record runners on games that aren't old as sin hoard to ever live in crap out of their techniques.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Love your videos man!

[@susjustsusthatsit5124]

first 1,000 views

[@leacwm]

I love manykudos

[@CarlosThadeu]

12:15 No Pat, I'm also with you, I'm just sitting here like... flabbergasted that people blew this up out of proportion

[@StormyStars64]

I heard one of the retired and the other one gained the 32/32 record but people deny it but it feels like the unsportsmanship talk shouldnt count whenthere is basically a group of bounty hunters stopping the 32/32 record

[@masterprick1]

Same here, it feels so incredibly dumb. No one even beat these records since he could hold them for over a year. The fact that it is not allowed is also crazy because it means they would deny a better run just because someone didn't post it immediately.

[@master_swish]

​@@masterprick1 It's not about denying them. They didn't deny them despite it being very unsportsmanlike because it's not illegal. What Dan did was deceptive as he prevented someone else from achieving the goal they were all working towards (getting 32/32 first).

[@oost_javeln]

​@@masterprick1nobody beat them because nobody went for them. Poeple would go for it if it was shown that there was competition.

[@sadraccoonboy]

Bro what dude in the first one didn’t deserve all that hate god people are dramatic 💀

[@BeanKally]

I agree, while it definitely was a dick move it wasn’t AS bad as people were making it out to he

[@NeoCinnamon]

14:00 Honestly I don’t understand why it would be so bad. It’d be pretty annoying if I had just gotten a world record on a thing nobody else had been attempting and then right after I succeed someone is there to cause me to fail. Like I’d understand if it was taken maybe a few days later, but these were in the same day a lot of the time. Where Mathias would stop trying to beat the record on a much harder track just to send Dan back. Dan likely didn’t like this and played within the rules to stop the behaviour that could honestly be considered poor sportsmanship in other circumstances by dropping his times all at once as to not have them overshadowed in a single day. You also have to realize that to do this he would have had to do this on top of battling the records of Mathias to keep public image.

[@redteayoutube]

First

[@Phantom_User]

U r 4th actually

[@Axo_Real]

First 🤣☝ (kinda stupid for commenting that)

[@Phantom_User]

@@Axo_RealI aint stupid I checked myself and this is the fourth comment

[@Phantom_User]

@@Axo_RealThere are 2 ways for comments to be grouped which is top and newest. He is the one all the way at the bottom cuz he is the most unpopular comment and he is the 4th in the newest because he is not first.

[@Axo_Real]

@@Phantom_User its fourth which only makes it dumber in my opinion when a video is a good like 1 hour old and you comment that i accept it as being a lol gahaha lolz but idk

[@truewwechampion7831]

The Mario kart 64 drama at the beginning was the most spoiled and childish shit ever