Morgoth's Ring Explained

[@wisedude4285]

The way that last line was delivered about "the return of THE King, of which the other was just a glimpse" was masterful. Absolutely excellent, well done sir as always.

[@cabudagavin3896]

eh? is he saying that Aragorn was not THE king? who was then?

[@ALJCpalaeozoic]

The One, himself

[@joelbeck200]

the one true king, the great I Am

[@wisedude4285]

@@joelbeck200 the One and Only King forevermore.

[@knightl3y]

@@wisedude4285 Quit speaking in riddles, man! Give us a name!

[@Johnnyoity]

The quote from Sam is great - and Tolkien sprinkles this theme throughout his LOTR trilogy. My personal favorite is Galadriel saying that her and Celeborn "together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat." This long defeat of living through Arda Marred. It is a real glimpse into how the elves in general and Galadriel in particular experienced Arda as marred by Melkor.

[@longbottomleaf6918]

It also explains the waning of the elves.

[@johnt.inscrutable1545]

@@longbottomleaf6918Exactly, there is no tiring of life in the undying lands for they were spared from the influence of Morgoth’s power. But elves grow weary in the rest of middle earth due to the injection of everlasting into it by the big M. Lothlorien was repaired & maintained to some degree by the power of Galadriel and her ring. But once the one ring was destroyed the power of the three also waned. Galadriel didn’t lose power, but without the ring she could no longer keep Lothlorien free from decay. Thus she wearied like all her kin and sailed to the undying lands where there is no evil. There she awaits the ending of Arda and will only then know the final fate of her fëa. Humans, of course, don’t during life know the immediate or long term fate after death. Elves knew only that they would live on in Valinor so long as Arda exists, but not will happen after Arda is no more. Thus, in the end, neither elves nor men know their ultimate fate, though humans have the old idea that they were freed from Arda and likely returned to the presence of the creator even if they’ve lost sight of this as they refused to carry the truth about what happened to them when they first awoke. See the debate between Gintid and ???. Dang, can’t recall her exact name. If you’re watching this you likely know who I’m talking about, because you are likely a geek, too. Love to all geeks, JTI

[@_hello_yellow9825]

I like that in the books it’s made clear that in introducing evils, Eru points out that Melkor did not consider that he would cause the creation of fair things. Clouds and snowflakes are because he introduced extreme heat and cold and he was a cause for the good and the just, as well as different races, to form wonderful friendships.

[@kreuzrittergottes9336]

"For all that thoust do has they utmost beginning in Me" Eru Illuvatar to Melkor after the Second Music.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

Ultimately Melkor was envious of Eru's power of creation. It was really all Eru's power and vision. The Maier and Valar were just acting as supports to fine tune the process. Kinda puts in perspective why Melkor was so irredeemably evil. He was consumed with this emotion to his core. He had no room in his heart to love another's creation when he wished to be the one making.

[@DAMusic-qu2ec]

One of the reoccurring themes is evil deeds inadvertently causing good things to happen.

[@NikolaosSkordilis]

Well, without clouds you do not have rain, and without snow you have no stored water for the period when the rain stops, thus getting droughts during spring and summer.

[@sotetsotetsotetsotetsotet2379]

dialectically you cannot have good things without bad things.

[@charlotteosborne9991]

I just want you to know that these videos serve as a very welcome escape from the stresses and anxiety of daily life for me! Thank you x

[@Roguedeus]

Your content is so much richer than most others who talk of Tolkien's work... You seem to have a much deeper relationship with it. It's impressive.

[@BluhmGardens]

Other way to take "Melkor's Ring" (since he sung it before becoming Morgoth) is like the ring of a bell (or sustained note), referring to the corruption he sung into creation.

[@danielbuzi7742]

This might be my favorite video so far. I never realized the extent of Morgoth's power

[@biscuitsalive]

Sauron’s one ring was like the sharp point on a stiletto dagger. When power was pushed through it, it could be deadly and it’s effect keenly felt. Whereas Morgoths power was like a incredibly deadly poison, tainting an entire ocean. Turning everything living in the ocean just a little bit evil.

[@Johnnyoity]

I looked at it like different forms of a lens. With Sauron, the ring was used to focus in a point, like a kid using a magnifying glass to burn up ants. It was clear, present and could focus his will. But with Morgoth, he used it like a lens to defract his power, like using a small light to light up a whole room.

[@john.premose]

What is "evil"?

[@john.premose]

@@etiennevanier87 meaningless, yawn

[@MenaceGallagher]

​@@john.premoseask a pointless question, get a meaningless answer.

[@john.premose]

@@MenaceGallagher so you think asking what is evil is pointless?

[@istari0]

Yet in the end Morgoth failed. Despite the corruption he introduced into Arda, the world remained filled with goodness. He was unable to rule and order Arda as he desired nor destroy it. He did not have the Flame Imperishable and true creation was beyond him.

[@chrisdooley1184]

I think it was because evil cannot exist without goodness, even in the Arda he tried to create. The more he tried to usurp that natural order the more he ultimately failed. I find it utterly amazing that we’re here discussing issues like this stemming from a massive universe Tolkien created from scratch. I don’t think I’ll ever read such a prodigious creative force in my lifetime 😊❤

[@jameswells9403]

Yet morgoths will is still felt in arda, even as the doors of night are closed upon him and he is cast into the void.

[@kreuzrittergottes9336]

Id say he was pretty successful loo. He single handedly messed up everything amd will require Erus direct involvement to be desteoyed.

[@istari0]

As Eru told Melkor, "And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."

[@Bannermann]

He did, but at the same time he didn’t. He failed, because Good prevailed. But he succeeded because now there will always be evil, no matter how often a new Dark Lord is defeated, one year or a thousand years from the moment of the defeat, there will be another one.

[@purduebebo]

Surprised you didn't incorproate Iluvatar's quote to Melkor when he was signing the dissonance and proclaimed that all of Melkor's dissonance will eventually bring glory to Illuvatar despite Melkor's desires.

[@haakoflo]

I was thinking the same. Without Melkor, Middle Earth would be really boring. If not for Melkor (and all that happened due to his "ring"), Iluvatar (and Tolkien) would mean nothing to us. Or to stay within the world, without Melkor's darkness, nobody would recognize the light.

[@Studiosmediamilk]

​@@haakoflo"Your genocides were necessary for my own ego" -Eru to Melkor, probably.

[@rauntche]

@@Studiosmediamilk >applying the human understanding of ego to a transcendent being Your theology reps, bro...

[@dotanon]

@@rauntche It's our duty to do so IMO. What's the point of a man playing a god's game? The alternative to applying our incomplete understanding to transcendent beings is simply to never apply any thought to anything at all. If gods dont like it then they should have made us better.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

​@@dotanon Is a fruitless endeavour. Worse than ants trying to understand Human High Culture.

[@rafaelgustavo7786]

With the One Ring Sauron could use the "Morgoth's Ingredient" in Arda: "To gain domination over Arda, Morgoth had let most of his being pass into the physical constituents of the Earth-hence all things that were born on Earth and lived on and by it, beasts or plants or incarnate spirits, were liable to be ‘stained’." "It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such ‘magic’ and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it." With this "mana"/Morgoth's Element, Sauron could: - Control the weather; - Cause Earthquakes; - Control thousands of Orcs, Trolls, Wargs, etc; - Cause Diseases; - Resist a lightning storm; - Cause Volcano Eruptions; - Corrupt Harad, Rhûn, Númenor; - Recreate his physical form;

[@AndyBobandy-nc9fd]

And it still wouldn't be enough to stop Eru's will or even a single Valar. Sauron would lose no matter what.

[@elagabalusrex390]

Interesting! Sauron certainly had his work cut out for him by his former master. Perhaps that was partially why he made, in some ways, a more effective Dark Lord than Morgoth.

[@NeroLucife666]

​@@elagabalusrex390More effective?? Is that a joke?? Morgoth was responsible for 2 of the greatest Eleven Kingdoms fall. Nevermind the fact he had Dragons and Balrogs under his command while Sauron had only Orcs/Goblins and trolls🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@arjunakorale6166]

@ahmetakgun5358But neither Smaug nor Durin’s Bane allied with Sauron as they were far beyond his control. In fact, at no point in Tolkien’s history did Sauron have control of either the Dragons or the Balrogs!

[@NeroLucife666]

@ahmetakgun5358 Lmao. Stop it. That's cap 🧢. The Numenoreans were responsible for their own fall. Sauron only egged them on. The only realms he made fall was Eregion. You Sauron fans sure like to move the goal post. And Arnor fell because of the Witch King. Since Gondor didn't fall, I would say the Kingdoms established by the Faithful still stood. So, no Sauron didn't make any Kingdoms fall. Just Eregion.

[@wkelly73]

This was fantastic. I've read LOTR four times (first when I was 12, now 50), the Silmarillion in full twice, and consider myself knowledgeable in the deeper legendarium... yet this video made so many things that I thought I understood, click into place on a completely different level. Thank you so much for your insight!

[@dandiehm8414]

Now its time for you to tackle Unfinished tales and the the whole History of Middle Earth series. There are some fabulous late essays that shed all kinds of light on things.

[@MarcusHalverstram]

Robert is good like that

[@SLrandomshitposting]

I've read the lotr trilogy about 20 times so far. Last year I finished the turkish translation and now I'm halfway down finishing the spanish translation, its funny how hard I find spanish translation than turkish one having learning spanish for five years . I was able to learn so much turkish within less than two years

[@ericfogle4965]

The first bit of the Silmarillion is a bit of a slog … and seems out of place .. the rest of it and all Tolkiens works are outstanding though ..

[@Zepp710]

@@ericfogle4965hard disagree. The Ainulindale is the backbone of the entire story of middle earth and without it you miss out on the deeper themes

[@WrinkleRelease]

That was a damn good video, sir! I enjoy that you don’t merely recite plot points; you revel in and enjoy the beauty of Tolkien’s language.

[@miaththered]

Arda itself is called Arda Marred because *it* is Melkor's ring. Every shadow, every ghost, every evil thought and horror in the world is his doing.

[@Wade_Fucking_Wilson]

It's funny because ared means earth / ground in arabic

[@mingthan7028]

​@@Wade_Fucking_Wilson Obviously the Professor made this Quenya word based on the Germanic ''earth~aarde~erd'' allofamily

[@ens0246]

​@@Wade_Fucking_Wilsonhe was a linguist after all

[@billyalarie929]

As someone who only V A G U E L Y understands this world (partly bc it’s been beyond my control that I haven’t had the attention span or comprehension to understand not the nuances that so many have reported finding impenetrable in this story, but rather minute, mundane things: descriptions of seemingly incidental information, atmosphere-building set pieces, etc.) I was understanding it as “Mard” which led me to “martyr”, which could work in its own twisted way.

[@emanuelapetani6985]

Not true Ungolianth was not created by Melkor

[@guibox3]

Morgoth's Ring is one of the best books ever if you want a detailed and chronological history of years (measured by the two lamps, the two trees, and the sun years) of the creation of Arda, the reign of Melkor, the awakening of the Elves, the war of the Valar and the events of pre-First Age.

[@Scientist_Salarian]

The idea that gold brings out the worst in people because it’s the literal essence of Morgoth is very cool! Tolkien really did consider every last angle of his world.

[@thomaswalsh4552]

That’s not at all what was said. Gold was brought up because the One Ring was made of gold and the point was that power was concentrated in that small amount of gold, as opposed to Morgoth’s power dispersing into everything, all gold included. He even says that Morgoth didn’t create gold

[@billcarson6954]

For someone critiquing not listening; you seem to have missed the part where it’s said Morgoth’s influence wasn’t evenly distributed. The Undying Lands are said to have inherited a small influence. Whereas gold contains a lot of Morgoth’s essence; resulting in Dragon Sickness. Nobody here is claiming Morgoth made the gold.

[@Scientist_Salarian]

@@thomaswalsh4552​​⁠​⁠ I never said that Morgoth created gold. I was commenting on the idea presented at 7:59: Morgoth’s influence wasn’t spread evenly throughout Arda. As spoken, “Gold, in Middle Earth, seems to always have a more evil tendency than other precious metals.” Yes, the whole of Arda is poisoned, but gold appears to work as the veins through which the poison disseminates. Please watch the full video before responding to people’s comments. We’re all just trying to have a casual, friendly conversation, here.

[@ms.aguilar4077]

Another terrific video. I really feel like, of all the Tolkien commentary available on KZbin, your videos really capture the depth, spirit and incredible detail of his work. Your work brings both knowledge and understanding. Many thanks!

[@Augustus_Imperator]

"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will." - Morgoth

[@mingthan7028]

He barks well

[@7yep4336dfgvvh]

​@@mingthan7028and bites even better

[@Klaus-y3v]

He went against Eru Iluvatar and lost. If he had a bit of common sense, he could have figured that out from the start. But, unfortunately, putting two and two toghether was never Melkors strong side

[@johnpotts8308]

@@Klaus-y3v "Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven" - Morgoth would surely agree with the Devil on that one (from "Paradise Lost")

[@NikolaosSkordilis]

@@Klaus-y3v Melkor, just like Lucifer in the Bible (and Paradise Lost), is ultimately the originator of free will. Without them the stories do not work, not just because all stories need a bad guy but because no one would have free will. Eru deliberately created a rebel Valar for this purpose. Without Melkor, and the Maiar who followed him, everyone in the Ainulindalë would follow Eru's lead in both songs like sheep. Arda would be created with an absolute herd mentality right from the start, and the same would apply to Elves, men, dwarves etc Everyone, lacking free will, would have the same voice. Not exactly an example of perfection... That is why Arda was doomed to be created marred. Evil and discord are basically side effects of having free will. Only after Dagor Dagorath (the ultimate squaring of the circle) evil and hate will become redundant, yet without affecting free will.

[@zachfakename6675]

"Notes on Motivations in the Silmarillion" is my favorite piece of any writing that Tolkien left us.

[@maarkaus48]

I never would have picked up on this by reading LOTR. I am going through the books again, and will read it in this light now. This adds a whole new level to the books. TY.

[@striker8961]

While Sauron could have his ring around his finger, Morgoth could never hold the whole of creation in his hands. It also explains Morgoth's ability to "curse" people. Since everything has a bit of him, he can exert his will to affect things. Which I believe further diminished his power out of sheer pettiness. Every act of evil he ever committed was like a bratty child smashing all his toys because he couldn't have the entire toy store, until he had none left.

[@iepvienredstoneHuy007]

to me, his cursing ability is just a natural power of an Ainur - being of concept so using curse wouldn't reduce his power of evil on Arda. Similar to the tree of life, Morgoth is not the big bad monster, he is a primeval evil that express itself into the physical realm as a big bad monster. Since he is a concept, every thing he or other Ainur do and said become the very physics rule of the world it self (from arbitral concept to physical manifestation). Case in point: the wizard's spells, Saruman and Gandalf wasn't speaking words made of sound, they were speaking law of physics to each other.

[@TonttuTorvinen]

@@iepvienredstoneHuy007 Much lesser beings have ability to cast curses in Silmarillion. The archer-bandit from the band of Turin, dies like the lesser dwarf min curses. Maeglin was cursed by his father to die the same way as he did. Though the curses do seem malicious so maybe they draw from Morgoth in some way.

[@7yep4336dfgvvh]

Melkor was the only one of the valar with a brain and will

[@SPIKESPIEGEL1969]

he’s got the whole world in his hands, he’s got the whole wide world in his hands…

[@eourt1986]

That was a every, "eye opener." Thank ya for diving deep into the world of Tolkien, and sharing your finding. I really enjoyed that knowledge.

[@hatuletoh]

One can't appreciate the incredible philosophical structure that Tolkien created to underpin his world without understanding the story of Melkor. He is, in the way of all great villans, the driving force of the whole story even when he isn't present, and even though he's barely mentioned in the LotR story. On one hand, I very much wish that Tolkien had lived long enough to have turned what we know as "The Silmarillion" into a properly organized and edited series of books, so that we got the whole story as best the storyteller could tell it. On the other hand, the fact that we only have the rough draft version of Tolkien's mythology leaves room for the imagination and interpretations of others, and maybe that is a part of why the Tolkien's universe still feels vital and alive so many years later. There's just enough ambiguity to it to make it feel real somehow. In any case, it's not just an incredible literary, linguistic, and storytelling achievement, it's a genius level work of philosophy and mythology too.

[@zettkusanagi6322]

Makes sense that the magic of the Valar/Elves. etc wes derived from Illuvatar, and while Melkor was also from Illuvatar, his influence and "ring making" of Middle Earth made the magic Sauron and all other entities would use. I believe Sauron wanted to escape his constitution, his essence and become something entirely different, and noticing Melkor's "miasma" in the world, he opted to use it since it was something relatively new compared to everything else that flowed from Illuvatar. However, as much as he could or tried, he at best could only become Melkor himself. Nothing else, nothing more. He would try, and we know he could not really become that, but rather, become something akin the creatures of the dark.

[@n00bplayer72]

5:19 That picture always makes me chuckle. It's like Tulkas has Turin in his pocket as a last-ditch resort if something goes wrong. Morgoth: This time I'm the victor, Tulkas! Tulkas: Pocket-Turin!! Morgoth: OH GOD NO AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH--!!!!!

[@Tohar7]

Brilliant analysis as always Robert! There really is no better Tolkien channel than In Deep Geek.

[@GERnebu]

I love these videos about the deeper lore behind the creation of middle earth.. these "biblical" stories are really interesting imo

[@MyVanir]

I love how Tolkien fans have a tendency to whine about how he never intended any allegory in his writing, but everything he wrote is dripping christian symbolism and biblical morality.

[@GERnebu]

yea, probably.. but I meant "biblical" more like epic, fundamental, mythological, .. I just dont know how to describe it. - There is christian symbolism all throughout a lot of his writing, but I am interested in these stories because they are... idk.. cool, I guess. Another example are the mentions of the nameless things, that are constantly gnawing at the foundations of the world itself. Concepts like that are just so cool to me @@MyVanir

[@ryancruz1876]

@@MyVanirI’m not sure you understand what allegory is.

[@andrewrollinson7739]

This is like a PhD in Middle-Earth Studies. Thank you Robert!

[@glennrabb]

I am a MASSIVE FAN of you works. Your breakdowns and discussions of various topics are brilliant. This is one of my new favorites. It add so much to the full world concept in a way I newlyweds realized I was missing. Thanks you so much!!

[@7yep4336dfgvvh]

Thank you

[@TulsaSooner1979]

This was EXCELLENT! Tolkien's Christianity really shines through his legendarium. When Arda is unmade by Eru, all will be as it was originally intended. Likewise, when God merges heaven and earth together, all will be as it once was from the beginning - we'll not only be saved from our sins, but from the effects of sin, and the very presence of sin.

[@TheCraftMansion]

I think the Scouring of the Shire is an excellent example to Arda still being marred and evil being present. It contrasts exactly with the win against evil the hobbits experienced, and showed that that win was not against the whole of evil.

[@SB-yp8vp]

Interesting video as always. I have to disagree with some things you said about Arda marred vs healed. Arda is as Iluvatar intended because anything Melkor did only served to add to Iluvatars glory. In the end, even Melkors doing was part of the grand plan so to speak.

[@euruski]

Until the end, when all evil is overthrown and Eru's true intention is revealed.... Not even Mandos knew that

[@squidmanfedsfeds5301]

I think it’s more it was planned to see how melkor would affect the creation, so that eru could remake arda again using what he learned

[@forsakenquery]

It wasn't his plan, but he granted free will to the three generations of his children. The world is his too, so it will revert back to the good at times and through his agents. His children are each granted more privileges but less power - most to the ainur, but the most moral restrictions, then the elves, with more freedom and finally to men, weakest of all, but granted almost total impunity and the Gift. The only thing not allowed for men was to destroy Valinor.

[@VirusEclipse]

"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.”

[@NikolaosSkordilis]

Melkor/Morgoth is such an exciting figure in Tolkienverse, as is Lucifer (less in the Bible and far more in Milton's Paradise Lost). In Ainulindalë Melkor's song can be seen as one of discord at a high level or _the voice of free will_ if you dig a bit deeper. Every other Ainu fell into line under Eru; they followed the boss and joined the herd like loyal sheep, singing along the same song. No individuality, no free will. Melkor, being a Luciferian figure, opted to sing a different song. Like Lucifer (or Prometheus in ancient Greece) he _rebelled._ And he did so, interestingly, per Eru's plan. The tragedy is that seeking individuality, free will and full self-reliance later led to Melkor's fall. And the paradox of free will is that it can create discord and spawn evil, while the lack of free will leads to a kind of totalitarianism or herd mentality, which are also evil. So can free will be retained while respecting the free will of others or will there always be conflict of wills, hate, fear of those who are different and evil? I think at a low level this is what the destruction of Sauron's One Ring represents, but ultimately Tolkien resolves that paradox for good in his prophetic Dagor Dagorath, where he sacrifices Melkor to represent the paradox's dissolution. Charles Bukowski once asked, rhetorically: "Can man be free without being alone?" This is the essence of the free will paradox. Dagor Dagorath, the 'battle of all battles', is when we can answer "Yes, we now can". The destruction of the One Ring is its prelude. Dagor Dagorath represents the end of hate, end of fear and thus end of evil, all without affecting free will.

[@TimelyAbyss]

I always assumed that during the dagor dagorath Melkor would recall all his power from Arda “un-maring” it so his full power could be brought into the battle, thus when he’s defeated, he’d be utterly eradicated so that the second song would be completely free of him.

[@Kassadinftw]

Middle earth history and it's magic made 1000x more sense when one of these lore videos pointed out that each being (other than Illuvatar maybe?) had a limited amount of power to use up. Like starting with a full jar but having to expend it to do magical or mighty/unnatural things. It makes so much more sense as to why Melkor and Sauron waited and built up or plotted deviously to accomplish their goals. They couldn't just throw their power around because it would be gone in a flash and they'd be expended.

[@TheJacheed]

This why I think Tom Bombadil is the good half of Melkor. Tom was melkor’s attempt to concentrate all of his power to making a good creature. And he succeeded. But he unintentionally completely divested himself of all good. Leaving two beings. Tom and Morgoth. It explains why Tom calls himself first and eldest as does Melkor. And why he sings the song of the Ainur to Frodo in his cottage. And why the Ring hold no sway on him. Tom is basically Melkor’s first Dragon. Indeed when Smaug is detects the Ring in his hoard he also seems equally unimpressed.

[@xsvrrx]

Mind blown

[@quadcannon]

Fun theory. I’ll have to reread all of Tom and Melkor’s parts to see what might more likely support that.

[@TheJacheed]

In the very last chapter, as Frodo sails west, he hears music. Music which reminds him of his brief time at Tom’s!

[@amcg7546]

A great musing, even a rationalization of the concept, on 'how could a supposedly benevolent god create such evil,' and 'why must the world end in fire as I have been taught to believe?'

[@AlexAnteroLammikko]

Lets all remember, no matter how bad our singing, Morgoths singing was so bad and out of tune that it ruined the entire universe. So at least our singing cannot be that bad.

[@TomInIreland110]

Or was it Erú’s plan all along? There’s a great quote in the Silmarillion where Erú says ‘all music has its uttermost source in me’ (something like that).

[@gamingoverlord8854]

@@TomInIreland110 Don't know if it's true, but that'd make Eru the ultimate bad guy of the story, and wouldn't make for as good of a story imo.

[@billthomas7644]

From the Silmarillion: "Ilúvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth!"

[@sjdave]

Thank you. You have a terrific voice for these.

[@heath_deadgerpvp1161]

The best storytelling reflects the Master Storyteller; who has created this multi-dimensional plane of existence and awakened our souls. Thanks for illuminating Tolkien's work; as it has many implications. There is a hope for us humans too; a final Blessed Hope, (7777-JC). Keep making Rad Content!

[@WhoIsCalli]

Great video Robert. Currently working my way through the Book. Interesting stuff

[@TheGeneralGrievous19]

Another amazing video, Thank You! 💜 I love the deep dives in to Tolkien's legendarium & inspirations of it. I enjoyed the story about Morgoth's Ring. 🌍💍

[@waylandertheslayer3259]

Love the video! Tolkien’s faith is very evident in answering questions like this.

[@jsivonenVR]

This was amazingly insightful! All hail Melkor, _the Original Big Baddie in Tolkien’s Legendarium!_

[@hodgrix]

Robert has such a succinct yet poetic way of putting things :)

[@alexrocky9147]

This video is just a love letter to Lotr lore fans, thank you so much

[@royceflores23]

This one was really beautiful. Thanks Robert.

[@thegenxgamerr]

Excellent video very well presented, thank you

[@leminjapan]

In all my Tolkien deep dives I've never heard of Melkor's ring. How interesting!

[@denizsi]

It never sit right with me how Melkor is supposedly the originator of all evil, slight or grave, dismissing the capacity of ordinary beings for "evil".

[@SugerSprinkledFun]

It's catholic symbolism.

[@Vampiracho]

Melkor with the jazzy notes.

[@wythore]

I've always assumed, after reading the Silmarillion, that Eru Iluvatar's own desire (if you can call "desires" from a cosmic being) was that Arda/Ea should have parts of Melkor's song in it, or else he'd prevent Melkor from singing right from the start. It always felt to me as if Eru intended the world of Arda to have balance between Melkor's evil and the rest of the Valar's goodness; no side could ever totally subdue the other, which in turn would mean no fully "good" world could ever be achieved .

[@pomeoxfl]

Moreover, when Eru found the Melkor's part of the Ainulindalë, He didn't erase nor undue the Music, but said, that, as an aspect of His Creator's Thought (embodied by the Ainur as His tools), anything that Melkor could bring into being in the Arda had its source within Eru himself.

[@DreamMorpheus42]

I think Tolkien is a bit more sophisticated than that.... The "problem of evil" is a huge bugbear to theologians and philosophers since time began. Tolkien is making up his own new mythology for Europe just for fun, his imagined people explain "the problem of evil" much the same way we did in the real world, through sometimes contradictory metaphors and parables. Evil was a part of Eru's ineffable plan... It was also caused by this malevolent entity... It's also inside all of us, along with the divine goodness... Evil is both inevitable and defeatable. Did Eru create suffering? Did Eru create Melkor to then create suffering? The answer is whatever you want it to be.

[@GruntoSkunko]

@@DreamMorpheus42 Good and evil don't exist; there is no "problem of evil".

[@alexae1367]

Why or how would someone need to intend for something to happen if they couldn't stop it from happening? It doesn't make an all-powerful God sound possible

[@johnsmith7303]

Dude everything about this video is fantastic, especially the linguistics. Easy to follow and you tied in everything with a neat little bow. Well done.

[@Marconius6]

There is another solution the Elves didn't consider: that Arda will never be healed, that imperfection is simply the nature of all things; and that we have to learn to appreciate that, the good and the bad. Perhaps this is why the Elves faded away, while the imperfect, fleeting Men thrived in this world: there was no way for the Elves to understand what all Men knew instinctually from birth.

[@galen2242]

Excellent explaination for someone new to LOTR !

[@thebobbrom7176]

I know Tolkien likely would have found it blasphemous But this makes me really want to see his take on The Book of Revelation now. Like that's clearly what's being referred to But it'd be cool to see an End of The World story which has the return of Elves and Dwarfs and such

[@mingthan7028]

There is no such thing as Dagor Dagorath.

[@XadaiSantos]

God damn it, your narration is truly captivating. Great video!

[@matthewvega7171]

I like your riding more than Tolkien's sometimes. This is particularly good.

[@MyVanir]

Do you prefer to be ridden or to watch others be the mounts?

[@MegaBrekky]

That was a beautiful deep dive into a complicated topic. Thank you!

[@RakeeshJ4]

One hopeful thought for the Tolkien world: the elves and maybe even the Valar seem to think that the only way to cleanse Arda of Morgoth’s influence is to utterly destroy and remake it. But…I think that maybe they’re forgetting that as far beyond, in quality and in scale, Melkor was over the other Valar…Eru is over Melkor, to say nothing of Morgoth. At the end of the story told by the Music for Arda, who knows what Eru will do in that final battle? Who knows what Eru *could* do? If Eru chose, could he hum a tune and whisk Morgoth’s essence out of Arda? Or for that matter, could Morgoth do so as part of that final battle, when supposedly his full power will return? It would be very fitting if Morgoth, in an attempt to finally win, retrieved his essence from Arda to recover his initial power…and was defeated, again, even so.

[@andysellers8298]

This was deeply moving. Thank you.

[@genlob]

Arda Marred puts me in mind of Tolkien's Catholicism and the idea of Original Sin. We're all born corrupted because Eve gave Adam the Forbidden Fruit (knowledge). The Prometheus and Dionysus myths have similar themes of the innate sinful nature of humans. Tolkien has expanded the idea to include the whole of creation.

[@jamesastroberg7493]

I do kind of like that this would imply that after the second song of creation and the remaking of arda, that evil would then be undone

[@PuReWiReZ]

So if Melkor wove a dischordant harmony into Arda and his ring was the whole of Middle Earth, does that mean Morgoth invented the Ring Tone?

[@AnubisofScorpio]

It might seem dark or hopeless, but Eru had already claimed all that Melkor would be. Discordant song and all. So all he would ever do would still be part of Eru's plan, his ring perhaps.

[@juanignaciolopeztellechea9401]

The fact that you didn't say "his power was thin, like butter in too much bread" is evil.

[@lorenzo3987]

Your narration is on another level compared to most, great job!

[@Baelor-Breakspear]

You can be Goth but you’ll never be Morgoth!!!!

[@garyvance4172]

I know people love to hate Feanor but you even found a way to include him in this.

[@matthewkillion5933]

I have opinions about show. But the rings of power has a pretty cool intro. Sand being shaped by music and subsequent discord.

[@NeroLucife666]

🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@johncox6794]

Great video. There's not many videos covering this topic, alot of lotr topics and ideals are oversaturated with videos. This is the first videoI've seen of morgoths ring. Throughly enjoyed it

[@thenerdfaraway]

Morgoth is akin to the sin nature of man/the fallen world...I see what Tolkien did there! How lovely to be able to contemplate what is to be my hope this way and thus lead me to strengthen my real faith.

[@Thaumh]

This, has given me much to consider for my own as yet unpublished legendarium, the 'Creation Story' of which goes back to and parallels the "Big Bang", the very *Creation* of our Reality, and the balance of powers within it as I tend to view them.

[@Mjdeben]

Sauron's schemes seem disappointingly small-scale when you talk about Morgoth haha!

[@elagabalusrex390]

Two different MOs. Sauron was mostly interested in the domination of minds and wills. Morgoth wished to control the matter of the earth itself.

[@NeroLucife666]

​@@elagabalusrex390Is there a big difference between Control and Dominate??

[@aggulvar]

Another difference to consider is that of perspective. Sauron didn't ultimately see himself or his goals as evil, even if the means were at times unseemly (Sauron is basically deluding himself). Melko meanwhile is as spiteful as they come and revels in the fact. In a way he's far more self-aware than Sauron, but simply chooses to wholeheartedly embrace evil

[@DanielValdebenitoC]

"He (Sauron) succeeded in destroying the Númenóreans by turning them against the god-like Valar and finally pushing them to completely reject the Gift of Men (though it's fair to say that they didn't require much pushing). Eru was thoroughly pissed off with Sauron for doing so, to put it exceptionally mildly, and takes a direct and overt hand in things for the one and only time following the Music". Sauron succeeded in getting Eru to intevene in Arda and change its form. Not even Melkor caused something of such magnitude

[@sauron5666]

​@@elagabalusrex390Morgoth wanted to destroy everything and everyone. In the end it might be even his servants. He is more powerful but more stupid. While Sauron wanted order which in his perspective means all beings would listen to his will. Sauron is much more complex character

[@johnfarley2365]

My goodness I could listen to your voice all day. You have that radio voice that just makes everything you say just that much more Intresting. Fun Fact.

[@rafaelgustavo7786]

It's possible that "the morgoth ingredient/element" was dispersed in the universe/Eä (galaxies, planets, stars). That would explain the entropy, the cosmic indifference and the death of the universe. I think that the history of middle earth - HOME say something about Melkor's dominion over all hröa/matter in Eä.

[@DragonoidBerserker1]

I was thinking about that idea a few days ago

[@johnkirk8338]

Incredible insight, great vid

[@Tiredjungle13]

In a beautifull way, all of Tolkiens works are about change, the old fading to make place for the future, letting go, beeing selfless, having faith in a higher plan. Tolkien believed that everything that truly is good would remain, while darkness would pass soon or later. So even in terrible times there is this hope of a new dawn after the long night. It is a lot about letting go, letting go everything that does not realy matter. I belief if Tolien would have written a bigger story about the fight against Morgoth in the end, it would have been about letting go the physical and old world, moving forward to the new earth. The choice to burn with Morgoth in the old world or to leave. Just like the elves leaving. The theme of all of his works is " letting go to be safed "

[@tired_and_stressed]

Amazing apologetics in this video.

[@martinmucha4858]

Very deep but also precise rendering of the substance of tolkien work. Great content. Thank you sir

[@pUch.BikeBetter]

Wow, Tolkien really understood the Bible, Thanks to him, I understand it better

[@bobbob8387]

Wow! This is proper theology. Deep!

[@pertinaciousD]

Tye more I listen to these analyses the more I realise how much Tolkien’s Catholicism permeates his stories.

[@Feuerbach1]

I mean would you say our world marred as it is, is lucifer's ring?

[@padmewan]

Thank you for this reminder of how deeply Christian thought informed Tolkein's work. Perfection can only be achieved through apocalypse: is this a dream or a nightmare? We should remember that the Elves of Middle Earth are not the good guys, spiritually.

[@iowaredneck9416]

I’d like to think that evil is a cruel, but necessary part of the world. Without struggle, there is no triumph. Without fear, there is no courage or bravery. Without dark times, good times go unappreciated. Evil is obviously not good, but without it those who are good would never have the chance to become great. Swords, armor, spears, and arrows. All needed for the evils of war. Yet without the skills of those craftsmen, would there be any cities, halls, or other architecture to look at I’m breathtaking amazement? Yes, there would be great creations, but much fewer and further between. My take on evil is not about evil itself, but on how the individual CHOOSES to overcome it or let it consume them. The character of an individual is what matters, not the hand they were dealt.

[@bluesbest1]

The only way to truly appreciate anything positive is by contrasting it with its negative counterpart.

[@mingthan7028]

Bruh...I just want to be in a perfect world. It's ok if we never know evil or appreciate good. Some might say it is a Stockholmn syndrome to say evil is necessary.

[@hexxon77]

Great vid as always. You have amazing knowledge of Tolkien's world and brilliant voice to share it.

[@jaysheth1541]

Sounded almost like Horcrux magic of Potter World.

[@elagabalusrex390]

Except that Tolkien wrote his legendarium about forty years before J.K.R. put pen to writing paper.

[@bluesbest1]

I'd be _very_ surprised if the Horcruxes weren't directly inspired by the Rings.

[@joshuafischer684]

Rowling's Horcruxes seem to be a mix of Tolkien's Ring (especially notable in the Locket) and Voodoo Phylactery.

[@solring5721]

It is important to remember that tolkien is mostly responsible for how fantasy as a genre is viewed today. Yet he pulled much inspiration from the history and stories from the old times that he translated during the course of his career. He was a linguist first, and an author second. I personally dont know if an equivilant to the rings is found in any of those stories, but it is a reoccurring theme throughout history and different civilizations that there are artifacts containing vast power of deities that could be used by mortals at a cost. This could be the root, if nothing else.

[@Wolfeson28]

I was thinking the same thing. Sauron's seeming "death" when he lost the Ring seemed very similar to what happened to Voldemort - severely weakened and seemingly destroyed, but in fact unable to be totally destroyed as long as the item which contained a portion of his soul remained intact. Obviously Tolkien predated Rowling by several decades, but you have to figure the one concept inspired the other to some extent.

[@deusexaethera]

In a perfect world, there is nothing left to achieve. Everything you could (and couldn't) possibly imagine would already be exactly as it should be. Imagine how excruciating it would be to live forever in a world where your existence contributes nothing, where all you do is endlessly admire the work of a god whose capabilities are infinitely beyond yours, without even death as a possible means of escape.

[@LENZ5369]

I personally find It's all rather convenient to pin the source of evil on Melkor, and not Eru Iluvatar -who gets the credit for like everything else.

[@marsMayflower]

Melkor is just Eru's high school goth side showing itself

[@mercluke]

tbf, aren’t they all just different facets of eru? (so, blaming melkor is like blaming a specific aspect of eru, id think)

[@miaththered]

Melkor is an aspect of Eru, as all the Ainur are.

[@branuhlig8476]

I mean, Melkor is an aspect of Eru so all evil that stems from him is originally from Him

[@jacebales2951]

You mean kind of like how in Christianity everything gets pinned on Satan, while it was actually God who started the whole thing to begin with? 🤣

[@CapnAhab89]

What a beautiful video. As a Christian I was blessed by it. As a LoTR fan, I always enjoy your content. Thank you.

[@darthJ9]

Babe, wake up, In deep geek just dropped, AND ITS MORGOTH

[@vbywrde]

Brilliant analysis. Thank you.

[@Groblinmode]

I don't like this idea of Morgoth's end, because not only morgoth had a role in creation. All the Valar have woven their song throughout creation and ending it all for a new "better" world to begin seems unethical to the very nature of creation.

[@bluesbest1]

Except that Arda Marred is essentially an abomination of Arda as it was meant to be. If a sword develops a fracture mid-forging, you melt it back down and reforge it. The only difference, and therefore the only reason why Eru and the Valar hesitate, is the mortal lives living _on_ Arda that would be harmed in the reforging. It doesn't matter how much effort went into the original attempt, the simple fact is, it was a failure. Eventually, the time will come for it to be reforged, but there will be a _lot_ more voices in the choir when the elves and men join the Valar and Maiar, with none of Melkor's sabotage, so it'll actually go as planned.

[@Groblinmode]

@@bluesbest1 the ethics of wiping out a couple races is questionable at best is what im saying.

[@cabudagavin3896]

@@Groblinmode White shores...

[@Laurelin70]

@@Groblinmode What races?

[@zaknfeind]

This was great. I was completely unaware of this, but if I'm understanding correctly, this would be why the One Ring had no power over Tom Bombadill since he, presumably, existed on Arda before Melkor fell and corrupted Arda. The question would be whether the lands in his domain were affected. I would guess not.

[@DaBIONICLEFan]

If all Valar were "offspring of Eru's thought" as stated in the Silmarillion, and Melkor is evil incarnate, doesn't that mean Eru has evil within him too?

[@IRAFOX888]

"And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined" So yes, and no. Eru has the ability to be evil, though it is through himself he chooses to be good.

[@Sletty73]

I think it does!

[@johnjohnson7259]

He does as we all do, but his heart has far more good than evil in it

[@JohnHenryJones-u1r]

I think that's a problem Tolkien inherited from Christianity lol...

[@chesterbless9441]

​​@@IRAFOX888No. Melkor could've used his mind for good. In the beginning he was basically just a stronger version of Aulë, and Aulë isn't evil at all. But unlike Aulë he became jealous and eventually that led him to become the first evil.

[@iianneill6013]

Great video! I would love to see a deep dive into the fantasy worlds of Dunsay and E. R. Eddison one day.

[@bryanboobaby]

You know I think Tolkien was trying to show us the difference between melko's power and saurons power ... Melkor has a whole world while sauron only has a ring 😮😮 💍

[@Emanon...]

Brilliant video!