Mormon Missionary Vs Convert: Disturbing Confessions ft.

[@kenburwood]

Just last year (2022) the church implemented a rule that missionaries are not longer allowed to be invited for meals by members. My mom, who's still active, for decades always liked inviting missionaries for meals to help give them some nice meals. But last year they had to start refusing and told her that the rules changed and they're no longer allowed. Mom was staying with me so I asked the missionaries directly about it and it was a church wide rule (not just a local thing) in order to not "distract" the missionaries... Even though they only ever stayed long enough to eat--less than an hour. They were just stopping to have a meal! No distractions. It does however keep missionaries more isolated... It's outright abuse by the church toward its missionaries. Update 2023-12-31: Based on the comments below, looks like this wasn't system-wide. Both a set of missionaries and my sister, in wards that are 100+ miles away from each other, told me that this was a new system wide rule--I asked my sister after the missionaries told me, because I honestly thought they were just trying to nicely not put any pressure on my elderly mom to keep feeding them. Based on the comments below though, looks like that was definitely not a system-wide thing. Perhaps it was only regional, and they were just mistaken about how broadly it applied. Hopefully it's also been undone in those wards that it had been applied, because it was a terrible idea to implement. Making this update because I see people still occasionally respond, but having seen the other comment replies--so putting this up in this parent comment so that it's easy to find.

[@amberinthemist7912]

Wow. I did not know that. I just had dinner with my parents and their local missionaries at the end of last year. This is more cruelty from the church. Shouldn't be surprised.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Oh nooo! That’s awful! Why would they do that? These kids need home cooked meals.

[@kenburwood]

@@amberinthemist7912 It had happened last summer. So sounds like your missionaries might have gotten lucky. Or was there a non-member present too? Last winter and spring My mom had invited the missionaries over a few times for dinner, but then in the summer the had to start refusing. I'd actually thought that they must have made it up just to not put pressure on my mom since she's elderly, not realizing that she really truly enjoys it. I asked my sister, who's also still active and lives in a different state than me, if that was actually an official change or if they were just being "kind". She told me that it was true, they'd just changed the rules. I asked why and she said it was to reduce distractions away from their mission work. I totally disagreed with that logic, it's just long enough to eat! Though my mom asked the missionaries: What about if I knew a friend who was interested? They said yeah that's fine, as long as there's at least one non member, even if they're not necessarily investigating, then they can have dinner at a member's house. I feel sorry for the missionaries. Hmmm, another possibility could be that it's the regional thing. My sister's in a different state but still in the same part of the country as me. I wonder. Though I can't see why there wpuld be a regional rule like that.

[@sonofthunder-fb3cm]

As both a priesthood holding member & a ward missionary who mingles quite a bit with the missionaries, I'm not familiar with this rule. Our elders still pass around the calendar for families to schedule meals with. If it is a real rule, rest assured it's not universally followed lol I think there's a bit more of an independent spirit amongst the members nowadays. At least in my stake it's pretty laid back lol even though I'm still in the church, I do appreciate your content & your drive to help people. It may seem paradoxical, but I genuinely enjoy your videos lol

[@FalconOfStorms]

I wonder if that rule is because of me. I kept having missionaries over for lunch in Summer of 2022 so I could give them good food and teach them about Christianity.

[@elainesutter5761]

I think as well that it's so refreshing to see Tanner fully and actively listen when Samantha speaks. I know that should be more common, but growing up in Mormonism, that is not the case.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Absolutely! He’s a gem of a human 🙌

[@deeperthings]

I'm sorry, were you saying something? I seemed to have not been paying attention.... Joking aside, he was actually practicing a skill we all learned in the mission field of focusing attention on your companion when they are speaking and appearing to pay attention, even when actually debating in your mind what you were going to have for lunch, or if the exchange rate might go up this week.... I'm not taking away from Tanner here, and I agree he is awesome! But as I was watching this, I kept wondering if he is always this attentive, or if all the talk of mission days had brought back this much ingrained behavior from those days.

[@elainesutter5761]

@@deeperthings I remember that conditioning well. But, as someone who's watched most of Zelph's videos, I feel like this is a Tanner thing. But, that's only speculation as I've never seen his interactions in person or real life. The Parasocial sphere is wild, isn't it?

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

@@deeperthings he definitely do that even in videos that has absolutely nothing to do with his mission

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

Omg yes! Tanner is just amazing. Love them sm!

[@superfreakmusic7681]

Sounds a bit like a narcissistic relationship-starts off with 'youre amazing, youre loved! Let me help you with your problems' then once youre hooked it descends into 'youre not good enough, youre a bad person, you need to try harder!'

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Such a great observation!!🙌

[@lehisilver1191]

There are good words and there are bad words I've been to many different words there's a big difference people are human just because they're mormon doesn't mean they know everything in life or know how to treat a person they're filled with human frailties like everybody else. Only you are responsible for your happiness

[@spiritofhonuguidanceforlife]

Joseph Smith for sure was a narcissist. And so the whole religion is based off that. I wish more people could see it.

[@chlyri]

​@@lehisilver1191There are several issues that are church-wide. Like saying that you're responsible for your own happiness, but if you aren't happy in the church, you're wrong.

[@robinedwards8796]

Cult tactics mirror the tactics of narcissists almost step by step.

[@DeathValleyDazed]

Samantha and Tanner are shining examples of the “brain drain” sucking the life out of what is left of Mormonism. When you mix higher cognitive function, eloquence, and humor you get to enjoy dynamic Ex Mormons like these guests and host.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

They are so much fun and yes, so intelligent! I loved their answers.

[@darrinhawkins8087]

When you mix arriogance and ignorance of sp[iritual matters this is what you get.

[@DeathValleyDazed]

@@darrinhawkins8087 yes, this defines Mormon leadership

[@darrinhawkins8087]

@@DeathValleyDazed Where does your amazing wisdom, spiritual; knowledge and understanding come from?

[@DeathValleyDazed]

@@darrinhawkins8087 Directly from my spiritual gift of discernment.

[@amandasale3840]

The conversion manipulation definitely goes both ways. When I was an active member, I walked in on a group of missionaries talking about the "flirt to convert" method. Where I live , western ny, there are a lot of young, single moms who are at a difficult, desperate, lonely place in their lives. When I confronted the boys about this, they said there were lines they'd never cross and the method was very successful. They reasoned that as long as it led to baptism- the greater good - it was an acceptable way .

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Ahhh yes the flirt to convert!! So awful to take advantage of vulnerable single moms like that.

[@arowace498]

​@@maroonblue7064it was the boys themselves saying "flirt to convert". If having the intention of flirting isn't flirting then what is flirting?

[@GonzalezKoerber]

@@maroonblue7064Single mothers may be quite young-14, 15, 19.

[@gilbertodominguez5212]

I didn't get married until I was in my early 30s and would sometimes go with the missionaries on their teaching gigs. I merely played the role of taxi driver because the missionaries had bikes and not cars. One time I went with them when they were giving the lessons to this young woman maybe in her mid to late 20s who was from Mexico, I think. She was a single mom with two kids. Not unattractive but not someone I would necessarily be attracted to. But the missionaries seemed so anxious for me to join them when they visited her. Later, when we were leaving, they asked me in the car what I thought about the lady. I don't recall what I said, but I felt that they might have been trying to create a "love connection," maybe as a way to get her to convert. Not really sure, but that's what it felt like to me. But I let it go and the woman eventually stopped seeing the missionaries.

[@lehisilver1191]

We all have free agency !!! God-created us that way.. I also see women pick abusive men and then cry about all men being bad ... Where are the good men.. All the good men are in her friend zone but they are invisible to her she wants the bad boy that's going to make her cry

[@djdingwall1]

I have been enjoying both sides ~ a convert and a missionary. I haven't verbalized or even know just HOW to verbalize my personal experiences being in and now OUT of the church. This is super helpful.

[@calanm7880]

Just 3mins in and I finally find out the actual meaning of Zelph on the shelf! 😅 friggin perfect! I'm a fairly recent ex Evangelical, still untangling issues and fading from that scene. Tanner & Samantha (and Paddington Bear always in Background) are truly awesome, so easy to connect with on the screen. And their appearance has highlighted this channel which I've just subbed to. Btw Tanner performed one of the most remarkable "parodying" but a work of art in music and visuals, on Bringham Young ("Bring 'em young" on their channel I think was called?), which really deserves a huge viewership.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Calan! Welcome! That sounds awesome. I’ll have to check it out

[@theeight-roadwanderer6286]

I recently said this on Tanner and Sam's channel but if I hadn't gone on a mission, I would still be a strong member to this day, which is so strange whenever I think about it. My mission was absolutely insane and was 100% a cult.. I served in Argentina and it literally broke my mind and I've suffered from severe ptsd ever since. There were no boundaries at all, my emails were constantly monitored, I was being worked a minimum of 14 hours a day, I was being forced to baptize p*dophiles and r*pists, I was sexually assaulted multiple times by companions, I had no personal space and had mission leaders (zone leaders and district leaders) randomly going through my things and taking stuff they liked, I nearly died of a fever of 104 degrees and wasn't allowed to go to the hospital, I was taught to use skeevy tactics to baptize children and poor people, and I was nearly murdered over 8 times. To this day I still suffer from intense nightmares and random panic attacks, as well as things like weight gain and commitment issues. The only thing I really got out of my mission was great friendships, but now that my old companions know I don't believe in the church anymore, all but one of my "friends" have completely cut contact with me, and I no longer even feel like part of my family due to how I no longer receive the same kind of emotional support or affection. Everything is cold and distant now. But hey, at least I learned Spanish!!!

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Am so sorry you had to endure such trauma.

[@theeight-roadwanderer6286]

@@marquitaarmstrong399 I appreciate it

[@theeight-roadwanderer6286]

@@maroonblue7064 I can feel the Christ-like love oozing out of you

[@theeight-roadwanderer6286]

@@maroonblue7064 everything I said happened and I am/was indeed a member. I'd even show you pictures of the people who did these things to me and I would show you Whatsapp messages as testimonies of what I said, if I knew you. My mission was a god awful place. You not being able to fathom such a terrible experience isn't really my problem. I suggest going on a mission outside of the U.S. and you'll see these things happening all the time. This stuff is common. I just happened to get a lot of it due to being shifted between so many companions, even though I wasn't even a problem missionary lol

[@theeight-roadwanderer6286]

@@maroonblue7064 whether you like it or not, my experience is my experience. It's not my fault nor my responsibility that it makes you uncomfortable to the point you feel the need to call me a liar, even though you weren't there and would have no way of knowing what happened 😂. Also, comparing my experience to someone else's in order to display how I'm "inaccurate" would do absolutely nothing since my experience is MY experience and not theirs. Your whole perspective only serves to display how average LDS people have incredibly low critical thinking skills.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

I really appreciate Samantha and Tanner. They both often speak with so much clarity and I think when you've been a TBM you're just sooooo thirsty for clarity....at least that's the way I feel.

[@offairhead]

14:38 when I lived in Oklahoma, two very young Mormon door-knockers (both male) came to my house. I had recently converted from atheism to non-denominational-Protestant-Christianity and was extremely intense with research and I asked them a lot of questions. I was 17 and they didn’t appreciate that so they asked for the adult. They got my grandmother who was a sweet, humble and kind widowed-retired-woman who studied her Bible non-stop and she was well educated in why we don’t believe in other fathers and she had even more questions they couldn’t answer. The next day two female Mormon door knockers showed up and bombarded us with all the answers the younger boys couldn’t answer the day before so we asked a whole lot more questions and by the end of an an hour of talking they left in tears. - we were incredibly kind but extremely accurate in our verses and Bible references. From that point on, anytime we saw Mormon-door-knockers in our neighborhood they always skipped our house. I wonder, now, if they ever questioned their own faith after our encounter.

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

U bet your boots they did!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@1yoginiheart]

This conversation reminds me of my second Baptism, as I was raised in the Church. Then had myself ex-communicated when I became pregnenent out of wedlock. ( The male missionaries had no problem with me being a single woman, alone with two men). My nephews and neices have gone on missions. As did my sister. Half my family practice. Some are on the fence. Some are stepping out. These conversations help me so much in my healing process, and I am so grateful to have found this channel. Much thanks.

[@ConnieRichard]

I vividly recall my mom telling me, as an adult married woman, that I'm suppose to be quieter and not draw attention to myself.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Oh no! I hope you’re loud and proud now 😁

[@ConnieRichard]

@@CultstoConsciousness Yes, Ma'am! I am learning to be unashamedly myself, which is very loud and proud!

[@ConnieRichard]

@cindybin2001 no one said it has to do with leaving the church.

[@danieljohncarey7917]

The cat named Bernie Sanders sitting on the desk is the cat's meow. LOL. I can relate to so much of what Tanner says about all the head trips of being on a mission. It's so much denial, repression, inner conflict, and remaining silent so as not to say anything out of tune with being a Mormon cult missionary. We were overworked, misguided, used, abused, brainwashed, controlled, manipulated, spiritually brutalized, infantilized, mistreated, stigmatized, malnourished, forced into poverty, had our true needs dismissed, our feelings belittled, and are relationships and mental health damaged, and were stuck in false beliefs we were expected to sell as sales reps for the cult. We were controlled 24/7, and expected to follow all regulations, from what we wore, thought, said, read, listened to, participated in, and spent time on, and who we did it with. It's 100% solid cult standards, practices, and behaviors. What the cult has done and is doing to young people is criminal. The Mormon cult missionary program is a human trafficking system with one goal: to increase the income of the cult. It has NOTHING to do with any sort of heaven, or salvation, or saving people, or a god, or anything but: money and power. It's a cult of greed.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

It really is awful when you boil it all down to what it really is. Recruitment of more members who will pay tithing. Especially since missionaries have to PAY to be salesmen to bring in more people who pay. Its so sad.

[@kirahall414]

I’ve had several experiences with missionaries the first time I was about 8 and I’m still friends with him. Then had meetings with them once I was older on 2 different occasions. Found it interesting and nearly got baptised twice. I will now hold conversations with them if I see them but I am very clear on my faith now so never goes beyond a conversation.

[@elainesutter5761]

Your shows are always so great. I love Zelph on the Shelf's insights! Thanks for having them on!

[@merricat3025]

I have never seen them so calm

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks Elaine! They were great! I have another video coming soon with them.

[@connor.ragan89]

I relate to Tanner a lot because as a Jehovah's Witness "pioneer" I spent countless really long days preaching to disinterested strangers. Spending all day walking and wearing a suit in the heat sucks! I had grown up being told that being a pioneer was one of the absolute best things a "true Christian" could do, particularly while still young. I was quite a zealot at the time, so I took my ministry extremely seriously and spent all my time studying so that I could be a more effective evangelist. But in the end it was just boring and exhausting (and expensive), and my enthusiasm waned. I was disappointed because all of that effort didn't pay off like I was assured it would. I didn't convert a single person. And in the mind of a JW, success is proof of God's blessing, and conversely, a lack of desired results could easily be interpreted as a personal failing or even evidence of wrongdoing. I didn't experience the sense of fulfillment and satisfaction I was taught to expect. I was also bummed because Witnesses are generally very proud of their pioneers and are told to support and encourage them. I didn't receive much of either. The other pioneers had parties thrown in their honor, but not only was I not even invited, I was ignored and received no such fanfare. It's not that I need constant praise, but I was proud of myself for once (I had zero self-esteem for a long time) and thought I was doing everything right. A little validation would have gone a long way with me.

[@katelynbrown98]

That is awful. In some sense that seems true for most all Christians.

[@rhondadearborn3265]

Great to see you getting all of these fabulous guests!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks Rhonda! More to come!

[@jacobdahlgren5292]

I knew Tanner on my mission, he was very hardcore obedient even by missionary standards. I had a very similar experience at the start of mission as well. I also suffered for the first 3 months. But I went a different direction though, after the first bit I gave up following all the rules of the mission. I spent a good portion of my mission at the local LAN houses playing Dota during the day, and then would go out at night to try to hit my numbers.

[@natez9059]

What is a lan house? Thanks.

[@CentaurTesticles]

@@natez9059Local Area Network. It’s a video game thing. Essentially all the computers/consoles in the house are on the same network, so they can play games together

[@JulianGentry]

​@@natez9059 Local Area Network. Connecting with local computers to play games, without needing internet

[@n4musica]

Google it!

[@BlessYourHeart254]

You’ve just earned a new subscriber. I already love Zelph on the Shelf ❤❤❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Welcome aboard! Happy to have you CJ! 😁

[@206doglady2]

2 of my favorite ex-LDS podcasters awww, I LOVE YOU GUYS! Thanks so much for shedding light on the BS 🐂💩 in the church. I was brought up indoctrinated. I escaped as soon as I was old enough to leave. I have no support system from family and no involvement with them, other than surface level. They left me for dead and sabotaged my divorce. As the shunning has been life-long but they smile and offer to bring me back into the fold if I will read my scriptures and return to church. I have flipping cerebral palsy require caregiver assistance and help with managing details in my life I have no support beyond a couple of exLDS friends and the state social work and medical care system. It’s hell… but I’m free to think, choose and feel as I like. I’m literally isolated, in bed most of the day and fighting for my survival. They use this vulnerability to try to coerce me into thinking that there’s something wrong with me that I’m mentally ill, that I have ruined all of the relationships in my life that there is no hope for me unless I return to the church and I gain a testimony. It is the absolute worst thing to go through emotionally when all I want is love and acceptance and inclusion from Family. Instead, I had to call Adult Protective services and requested no contact order and cut ties because it was becoming so abusive and difficult for me to function that I developed anxiety anytime I had to think about or interact with family. I love them and I realize I don’t like them very much. I don’t like the bigotry and hypocrisy I don’t like the criticism and judgment, and I really don’t like the exclusionary way that they live their lives while they look down their nose on me & put he selves on pedestals. There is a narcissistic personality disorder, and the family, and only one of them went to therapy and got diagnosed with it, and is honest about it. The church structure and beliefs feeds narcissistic supply. A big Mormon family can be your narcissistic supply if you’re a raging, narcissist, especially if your mail because that way you have absolute control over the family because you are the priesthood holder and your wife is subservient to you and so are the children. This leaves a lot of room for mental and emotional abuse, and can lead to physical abusers being hidden within the family. If there is a bully, he generally gets to be a leader. It’s a really sick situation and I’m sad that my family is caught up in the cult that they are unable to participate in my life in a way that they find acceptable and enjoyable, Other than from a distance, and in a limited surface level way. I definitely need more support. I’m really struggling. I don’t know where to find it. I am in Washington state.

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

Now that more and more ex-Mormon KZbinrs are popping up and joining forces the Mormon Church is up against a tidal wave of truth. 🤓 Scary scary stuff.

[@bobbieboothroyd8531]

What is it you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Lol.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

We are here and ready to take on the world 😎 ***insert epic superhero music here*** 👩‍🎤 lol

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

@@CultstoConsciousness You guys rock. Go forth and rock the Mormon madness! 😎

[@PtylerBeats]

Not scary for us

[@briancrismonpetersen7885]

If you all believe that 18 to 20 year old young men and young women could have this kind of power, you haven’t spoken to many missionaries! Sadly a great way to monetize. Even though untrue. Over $900 million was donated to Humanitarian Aid last year. This is not going back into the Church it’s helping multiple causes including $32 million to the World Food Programme. Money is nothing compared to God’s work. But in this world, think about what that can mean for so many people! For so many families! Could this be considered “fruits” as we learn to judge prophets by their fruits? As Christ said in the Sermon on the Mount.. “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” The fruits put forward by this Church are a blessing to many. I pray that you will actually investigate why so many continue to join.

[@superfreakmusic7681]

So agree re spiritual experiences-I think people from many religions do have genuine experiences with God, but then the logic of thinking that everything from that religion is also true doesnt follow at all. Like, just because God healed you doesnt mean that now you should be against gay rights, or be against evolution etc etc

[@JessHartling]

I grew up evangelical and although it's not the exact same experience but hearing you guys talk about it I experienced very similar pressures and issues.

[@DeliciousPigeonCheez]

A wonderfully enlightening podcast. And also the cat was fantastic

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Wander2WildBlueYonder]

Thanks!

[@robertbenz8028]

Thanks for this superb interview. It's very helpful to see what my ex-Mormon friends may have experienced!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

You’re welcome!

[@mouthymormonmetalhea]

Subscribed! I recently found this channel! I'm a post mormon living in Calgary Alberta Canada who helps run a very small support group called After the Truth, mostly ex JW and ex lds, but we have some 2 by 2's and people coming out of Korean cults similar to the moonies as well. I really like how you talk about different kinds of mormon extremism that seems to be regional as you moved between Utah, California and Oregon. I have also noticed this growing up in British Columbia Canada and moving back and forth to Alberta. Same observation just a little further north. The people who don't move around are ofcourse totally oblivious to this and try to gas light questioning members who are having a personal problem with the regional judgementalism in their lives. Just thought I'd drop a comment.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi! Thanks for sharing! I love that you are in the work as well. I’d love to hear more about the Korean Cults. Would love to hear from you if you have time. [e-mail] 🙌

[@Lyodification]

​@@CultstoConsciousness Hi, been binge-watching your channel for the last 24 hours, great stuff! I am an ex-Moonie, having been successfully "witnessed" to (witness = convert, Unification Church lingo) in 1993 in St. Petersburg, Russia, and becoming a member of the Unification Church (UC). I left the Church in 1999. Decades later I am still puzzled by many things, the memories are quite fresh, both good and bad. Didn't want to post anything as I saw comments on another video, along the lines of: "Ah, Jehovahs and Mormons are two completely different things". I'll post anyway, since the experiences and aftermath of leaving the Rev. Moon church are very similar to those experienced by former Mormons. A little reminiscing: in the early 1990s, Russia was not the most hospitable place for any foreign religions or "cults". 1993-1994 were the years when we, Moonies and Mormons held each other's hand, so to speak, and supported each other quite a bit. At that time we were two of the most hated churches and had to go through a great deal of public attacks and government oppression. So we sought each other out, and formed a kind of "alliance" that helped both churches to endure. A live talk show was to be aired on national television to expose "dangerous" cults. Six or seven "cults" were invited. We only agreed to participate if our Mormon buddies were also invited, and vice versa. Later, in a TV studio (only Mormons and Moonies showed up), we totally TRASHED a harsh and downright vicious three-hour attack of politicians, journalists, and activists, subsequently winning over the audience and having a blast. We were all around 18 years old at the time, and quite feisty.

[@Lucifersfursona]

The hair game on this episode is unreal 🥰

[@CultstoConsciousness]

🥰🙏

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Yeah. All three have great hair!

[@jamesbrooks3664]

Nobody cares about their hair! Lol

[@Golf2foto]

I noticed too 😅

[@0ddOdd]

The "be quieter" mentality in mormonism (mentioned briefly around 42:15) REALLY messed me up as someone with autism and adhd (both unknown about me at the time.) I naturally can get a bit loud / rowdy. I'm not always conscious of my volume, enthusiasm, etc ESPECIALLY in the moment. Being indirectly told that those sorts of things were inherently bad was awful for my self esteem. Obviously certain situations call for calm and quiet. That's reasonable but the church was not very nuanced and understanding in those ideals. On a different note I very much appreciate Tanner mentioning the historical and cultural significance of trans people. Wonderful video!

[@nomollyshere]

Lol I have to laugh cuz I was raised in the church (NH!) and I never heard that😂😂😂 probably because everyone knew me and my family don’t have an “indoor voice!” 🤣 the only time I would actively try was the temple and even then my whisper wasn’t quiet enough but I refuse to not speak clearly since these old guys can barely hear anyways😂😂😂 Just left the church a couple months ago and I’m still just as loud💅🏻🤣

[@toriibarlow]

I think a big thing for converting is love bombing and very quickly the church becomes everything. That's your social network , your doctor your dentist your yard person, child care. It's everything. And if you do anything intentionally or perceived you get punished for that in subtle ways. I also was called a golden investigator. I remember I was homeless and couldn't get rides to the ward for about a year. Tbh a lot of those people are way crazy. But once I got my own car, a good job and a apartment. I thought I'd really like to go back and i can. Not even realizing non of those people EVER reached out to me. Not even missionaries. I was still in all the Facebook groups so i knew a Relief Society event was coming so i prepared my self even dressing the part with a nice long skirt. I was super nervous but excited to see this once warm inviting place filled with my biggest support system(don't have a lot of family or friends. Was also moved away from my hometown ) I sat down in the room partake in the activity. Tried to strike up conversation join in conversation and was ignored and maybe got a few curt responses but everyone mostly ignored me. It was the most bizarre thing. I went to the bathroom to cry was stopped by a sister I used to love with who said they would've loved to know I was coming as they had some mail to give me but then nothing more after that. I came back to the event for a little more grabbed up my project and extras as was encouraged and left. Never went back after that. I have actually been blocked by a few people at least. Sometimes missionaries friend me on Facebook. But my only main contact from the church are email notifications about things and mailed letters from the bishops about stake meetings and conference.

[@bend1841]

I served a pretty unique mission from 1998 to 2000. I was unable to contact my family for long periods of time as I was in areas that didn't have a post office (or electricity). At times I went 2 months without contacting my family, even when I did, it would take 3 weeks for my letters to get to them... then of course I wouldn't see a reply on my letters for another 3 weeks. Needless to say, I was completely separated from my family. In terms of my passport, yes it was taken away from me by the mission president's 1st councilor. That felt like more of a precaution though. On a few occasions I was robbed so not having a chance of losing my passport was for the best. I was strongly against targeting baptizing children (unless I was baptizing the entire family). I was also hesitant baptizing teenagers was then just seemed to be joining for a friend and the social aspect. So much more I could say.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Woah that’s wild! Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[@katelynbrown98]

That seems like the best way to go about it, except for the isolation. :(

[@annadrift4]

This confirms to me how genuine lovely people can be pulled into religions that are toxic, controlling, and deeply problematic. I used to be incredibly hostile to religious people but it really is the institution and power structure of religion that to truly free us from we need to have discussions like this.

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

Love Sam and Tanner! Loving the podcast so far (still watching) but I got to say, I'm in love with your necklaces every episode!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww thank you! I love wearing my crystal necklaces 🥰

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

@@CultstoConsciousness they're crystals? Omg that's why they're so pretty! They do look very medieval and magical too hahaha. Would love to know more abt them.

[@CliffordKindred]

Ha, Ha, oh my mission, top baptizer. I remember the MTC (Mormon Training Center) as I'm being "trained". As a teen I was trained in sales techniques selling rabbits for thousands of dollars, sheep, horses for 100's of thousands of dollars. In the MTC I told the teacher that the techniques where high pressure sales tactics . I was told, "oh no we are not using high pressure sales techniques." Yes it is, I've used them for 100's of thousands of dollar in sales. I went through a list of salesman books, many written by Mormon authors. It's all about the numbers. On my mission the weekly report of "numbers" is absolutely like running a team of salesman. My husband just can't believe what we did as missionaries for the lord's sales force. I was really good at sales! I got away with so much crap on my mission because I was a top baptizer! Such Crap! It's all about the NUMBERS!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Clifford! You are so right. Thanks for sharing!!

[@Mizzlenum]

Perfectly said elder.

[@anjelikag]

So thankful for John Dehlin and MSP for finding you! I have experienced both types of Mormon missionaries no caffeine even on soda/ soda is okay we have soda shops.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Happy to have you here! :D

[@leahannewoods6170]

I was Mormon for two years and got out of it. I had to send that proper legal letter to Salt Lake City that makes them have to remove your name. I’m so glad I got my son, who was 6-7 at the time, out of this! Mormonism is much like Scientology from what I’ve learned. It’s all about the numbers, power, money, eventual being the church of the world, lying to people etc.

[@amberinthemist7912]

And if you ever need confirmation of how cult like the mormons are, you can just refer back to this post of yours and immediately being called a liars by someone who doesn't even know you. Nothing proves "cult" like their rabid fans freaking out on ex members.

[@JFat5158]

@cindybin2001 bullshit, it's all a hoax. There is nothing unique about the Mormons, just another church that claims to know it all. Too bad there's 50 other religions that also claim that and literally no way to know if any of them are even true.

[@trissvlogs]

Actually YES, they only care about your tithing, my own experienced, I am far away from the church building, and I still called active member even not attanding the church because I keep pay the tithing, another case I have member friends who needs help for their medication because they are not enough money for that, and church doesn't care, even when on my mission I have an investigators and she needs help with her madication, and what I got the answered?, it's not church obligation with her medications, it is their family obligation, and they are all die, that is why, church only wants your tithing, they doesn't care about your life, the church is liar.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Exactly. I’m so happy that you got out with your son!

[@bobbieboothroyd8531]

I was saying to my sister a while back Missions sounds like people Trafficking. When you take away their passport off them. I was a Stake Missionary for 3 years they forgot to realise me. Their was one old man who didn't know that Jesus died for us so he was very angry when I told him about that he use to like his ciggeret's. I think he came for the company. I was his home teacher. And I said to my companion who also got baptised on my mission what have they tarte him. I felt a bit like the Elders little friend because I could get them into places that they couldn't get to on their own. It's funny how many people I saw who was worried about loosing their family's. I never actually served a Mission because my family didn't want me to go with being disabled plus I was in a mixed faith family as well I prayed about it and the answer always came back no your job his here at home even the blessings from my dad told me that. But that wasn't good enough for the Butt Holes who was trying to get me to go. Suicide did cross my mind once or twice. But their you go I wonder if they still tell you it's OK to lie for the Lord but if God is perfect why would he want you to be deceitful. That sounds like the other fella to me. All the times I heard the return Missionary's say that was the best two years of my life. Well they must have had a crappy life by the sound of it. it sounds like an ego trip to me. It made me smile when they said please stand up if you've served a two year Mission. I was the only one who stayed sat down. My Brother had the same hassle the man Blackmailing him said I wish I could have gone on a mission at your age and her turned around and said why don't you then. He is now a vicar now funny enough. And swears like a trooper. The man who put me through Hell his out of Mormonism himself and wishes he found is way out of it sooner. I was a fifth Gen in England. And a tbm at the time. I feel less judgmental now and feel like not everybody I meet outside of the Church is trying to leed me astray which is what they used to tell you as you will know. Did you ever see the spiritual crocodiles video. They showed in the 80s/90s that wasn't exactly Christ like. That was a great Video and I really enjoyed it. I must watch zelph on the Shelf. Keep up the videos

[@warrengraham5419]

19:17 The same question could be asked about whether the experience was not just completely internal to the mind. Self-generated. You know, like how we naturally experience dreams, or hallucinations while on drugs or in extreme conditions. The brain does so much interperetation of sensory input. And this can be demonstrated in so many ways (ie interpolation for the eyes blind spot, corpus collosum hetero-hemisphere experiments, etc). Why do you need to insert anything unfalsafyable to explain the experience when we could test it and confirm or reject a natural cause?

[@beckymcdonald9529]

Pause: Idk who you are yet, but this is the first time I've seen you on my feed and I'm so happy I found the person asking The question! I'm finally gonna hear the story Subbing

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Becky! I’m so happy to have you here! Thanks for your support 😁❤️

[@caseyjude5472]

All hail Algo Rhythm! Great interview ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Woo! Thanks Casey!

[@tabithalayton2001]

Yessss! Samantha and Tanner 🎉

[@CultstoConsciousness]

🥳🥳🥳

[@matthewroberts3125]

This is a pretty epic three-some!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

😜❤️

[@katelynbrown98]

37:08 it really does make you wonder if the higher-ups make the missions hard on purpose. To give young members a testimony.

[@e.mma0]

as a convert, this is really hard to hear. but at the same time, very validating.

[@davepeen8321]

Makes ya wonder who's a legitimate freind right?

[@mads597]

Yes! YES! This is a magical trifecta!!!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks, Mads! 🥰🥰🥰

[@yourbonesareminenow]

This podcast was amazing to listen to. Love your content!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks for listening!!

[@tysonh424]

When I was a teenager, I grew close to a few missionaries while they were serving in my ward. I would go proselyting (term used for the act of just going out and knocking doors) with them, they would eat at our home quite often, go golf on P-day.. That time for them to be human and gain connection was important. I've even kept that connection after they returned home. It's sad that the Church only cares about the numbers for monetary gain. There is no need for the Church to send out missionaries anymore. Everyone has heard of the Church or knows someone that is LDS. If someone is interested, they know where to go.

[@orphanblackops4608]

19:00 Always ask religious people how do they know their religion is true when if you ask a person of another religion, they will say theirs is true.

[@emilyrln]

OMG ZELPH ON THE SHELF!!!!!!

[@lesliedaubert1411]

I converted quickly in 2013. Kind of pushed in with close people knowing that I can be manipulated easily. I think it was just because my mom and step-dad were moving and wanted me to join a church asap. I have been thinking about leaving for 2 years. Any time my step-dad says he talked with somebody in my ward for help in my house I get a weird feeling . I don't want to lose a few friends and help if I leave. I don't want my mom and step-dad to know if I leave. I'm kind of hiding in fear. And staying in the LDS out of fear of being punished by God. I am a spiritual person and have always been. Raised in a non-denominational Christian church. Please help me if you want to. A few years ago my mom and step-dad started their own Eastern Orthodox Christian church, which is very close to the Catholic church. Why did they make me join a church they didn't join ? Hmm. My step-dad was a member long before he met my mom out of spite to his dad. He was later excommunicated for some reason they've never told me.

[@SeanTheBurritoMan]

Tanner perfectly summed up what has always bothered me about the white shirt and tie requirement from the church.

[@ThatOddChickenHippie]

Why is the cat not Purrnie Sanders?

[@matthewrennermusic9652]

I love you both so informative. Thanks 🙏👍

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks for watching!

[@seekingbeans]

My name is Shelese and I'm also ex Mormon! You're one of the only other Shelises I've heard of 😊

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Heeeey! That’s cool! 😁 yes it’s very uncommon

[@lehisilver1191]

So what have you replaced your spiritual foundation with ? There is nothing wrong with being an X LDS member if you found something better that is more enlightening. The light of Christ can take many different forms but it will always be the truth.. I hope you find your truth 🙏

[@seekingbeans]

@@lehisilver1191 I am very happy without the light of Christ :)

[@Alyse_bell]

@@lehisilver1191you don’t have to have ‘found something better’ in order to leave your religion. Sometimes it just hurts to much to stay or you find out it’s all not true. That is also okay. It’s also okay not to be religious at all. As long as you’re not hurting anyone that’s all that should matter.

[@be.kind.to.animals]

Fabulous interview!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you Heather!

[@offairhead]

44:38 my daughter is 19 and she has a friend who is 21 who did mission from 18-20 and he still only got that one hour. He wasn’t allowed to take his phone or be on social media.

[@Lynnessanovember]

If a missionary works hard he will get a "very hot wife". Does that mean all hot women are already worthy and women who aren't hot are not worthy of a good missionary? This quote is also an example of how the church is still "gifting women" to men in the church, now they just don't have to fill the promise they can blame the guy if his wife isn't hot. Also, the motivation for her physical appearance prioritized over her spirituality which is such a contradiction. Either way this sentiment is terrible for body positivity in the church.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Ohhh yes. We talk about it in the episodes with my mom. The extreme push to be perfect is detrimental to mental and physical health. Because we wanted the most righteous man so we had to be the prettiest woman

[@Alyse_bell]

Exactly. It’s not about finding a partner that you’re are compatible with just find a hot partner regardless of their personality. Personally I rather date some that’s not necessarily “conventionally attractive” who has a great personality and who loves me for me a drop dead gorgeous guy that treats me like shit.

[@suzannep]

55:15 That is exactly the same a Jehovah's witnesses, they say in the last days there will only be a small number who will be saved but at the same time they are saying the growth in numbers is one of the things that proves they are the "one true religion". This whole video is like listening to exJW talking with only a few small details different, but that same overall vibe as we had while in the JW. Cult cousins lol.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Haha yes! Cult cousins!

[@cybergrail]

Great interview! Thank you.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jessilovely]

I LOVE Sam and Tanner ❤ didn’t even know you had them on 😆

[@georgeweatherford1027]

Continued vibe crush on both of them.

[@BCFarbo]

Plural Guesting! OOOO! What level of kingdom does that get ya?

[@TaranJHook]

The bit about guys only teaching to guys hit me. We get Missionaries on my college campus a LOT and one evening when I was walking back from the main dining hall to my apartment 3 male missionaries stopped me, gave me the 'speech' about who they were and asking if I wanted to learn about Jesus. I told them I was Catholic and not interested in converting. They pressured me into giving them my phone number, I gave them my work number, and they started calling me. I was alone when this happened and the three of them surrounded me a little bit when they were talking to me. Now knowing that they're not supposed to be doing that to the opposite gender gives me the creeps...

[@tvorryn]

At least for my mission meeting women on the street and getting their information was ok. But you were supposed to give their information to the sister missionaries as soon as possible.

[@TaranJHook]

@@tvorryn There were no sister missionaries around. It was just those three guys. I don't know if there were others around campus that day (Fairbanks seems to have a lot missionaries) but they were the only three I saw, it was relatively late in the evening and they were walking towards the bus stop so probably getting ready to leave. I do still have their number in my phone though. It's an Anchorage number.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I would NOT be ok with that either.

[@trilithon108]

Interesting, dynamic conversation.

[@offairhead]

12:06 that’s interesting to me. As an American, the stereotypes surrounding English religion is always very heavy Catholicism rather than Christianity/Protestant. I hadn’t ever thought to research that but I will now.

[@sabrinastratton1991]

They tried for 4 months. They began when they heard I lost my baby and I was in a bad place and honestly needed someone to talk to. In hindsight it seemed rather predatory. I eventually just said "I'm Jewish I'm very comfortable with my faith but thanks anyway."

[@crashwithkirby6708]

Mission presidents: don’t keep score when you play basketball Also mission presidents: how many souls have you converted this week? The other district got 20, we need to get more than that. Gotta get those numbers up!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Exactly!

[@runenorderhaug7646]

To be honest, the Zelph story could be interesting from a biological perspective if it was true ironically because it would suggest the diversity of a locally isolated groups and depending on how divergent the traits(skin is less divergent than people think) they might be more interested in using it to figure out what conditions create pressure for these certain traits in a isolated population, but that would ironically in the end be likely to be just as problematic for the Mormon churches reasoning too as well as racism in general

[@thuvu8605]

I had a chance to meet a missionary from Idaho, USA in Vietnam. He is very kind and humble when he and his companion teaches english club free for us, somehow I understand that free club is just another way to convert people, but to be honest I think he knows that is not good or perfect as he used to think so that I feel like he never tries to mention or convert me by his words about God although he has a lot of chance to do it. Just feel for those young man missionary with the strugglings.

[@philippal8666]

We had missionaries in London and tried to convert them. They were two young men in suits, it was Valentine’s Day, we were going around the town giving roses to all the shopkeepers. We were in 2s and 3s, in our 20s males and females. The two missionaries were hiding under a bridge. It was dark, but early. We literally felt sorry for them, we terrified them, so we let them be. We were soooo different. Laughing and dressed warmly, but very differently.

[@orphanblackops4608]

13:11 Good ol Pascal’s Wager.

[@jc1619]

Great interview! Your channel is really growing! 😊

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you! 🥰

[@kassrripples3659]

I’ve just realized the connection between doTerra and LDS … so many of the mega leaders are members of the church…

[@juliasummers1770]

The more of these sessions I see it becomes obvious that LDS is selecting missionaries from those who are on the edge of adulthood (phooey on 18 being a magical number), sending them as far away from their own culture as possible to be moved numerous times, causing further re-adjustment and thinking that this what some spirit would approve shows the lack of knowledge in members of the mission board. (Bad sentence, but I'm beyond angry.)

[@robinedwards8796]

Samantha mentioned oxytocin. That is a bonding chemical and very effective at keeping a person from leaving. It's what bonds us to babies and romantic partners. It feels gut wrenching to break a bond like that. That is absolutely intentional.

[@markjones1337]

I always wondered what happened to Napoleon Dynamites best friend.

[@Suprachiasmatic]

I know this is an older episode so I'm not sure if anybody will ever see this but I always find it hilarious that Rexburg, ID is so densely populated with Mormons because my grandpa, a Presbyterian minister, was sent there to be a pastor when my mom was a child.

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Fascinating. Thank you 4 sharing.

[@katiemiller4187]

A couple years ago.. missionaries stopped at my house and we talked for awhile about the Mormon religion and they were super pushy on getting me to convert they were both very nice but I was not interested in converting.

[@brytaniegovea8269]

I was converted around 13/14. My mom had been converted as a young child along with her mom but they kicked out her mom when they found out she had been living with a man unmarried. My mom went back when I was around 13 because she wanted more support especially with my older sister who had special needs. I think we all went 2-3 times before she decided it was too much for her but arranged it with someone else to still take me. She still to this day says if I was uncomfortable with going I should have spoken up 🙄

[@totonow6955]

Selling, yes. MLM. Capitalism. Perhaps listen to Matt Christman talk about this aspect in Mormonism but not just. I come from a southern Baptist background and all Mormon deprogramming discussion rings very familiar to me.

[@orphanblackops4608]

54:39 nobody cares about hair rollers now because nobody wears rollers anymore. Great how God changes with the times.

[@rbwinn3]

1 Nephi 11:35 And the multitude of the earth was gathered together; and I beheld that they were in a large and spacious building, like unto the building which my father saw. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying: Behold the world and the wisdom thereof; yea, behold the house of Israel hath gathered together to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 36 And it came to pass that I saw and bear record, that the great and spacious building was the pride of the world; and it fell, and the fall thereof was exceedingly great. And the angel of the Lord spake unto meagain, saying: Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

[@fikamonster2564]

Ex mormon here, still lives with my mormon family. Ive never gone to a mission. Will see what i think about this.

[@vickyi1]

very informative

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Glad it was helpful!

[@samanthacousland870]

Your channel had been popping up for me lately. I moved to Idaho and have made a few friends. One friend has left the Mormon church, she was born into it. Another friend is still in it and I fear he might be trying to convert. So far I haven’t gone to church with him, but he did ask and said that he feels lonely going to church alone. Which made me feel bad for him. Does anyone have tips to avoid being converted? I’m super uninterested in being converted into Mormonism Edit: I should specify that I’m looking to not convert and not hurt my friends feelings

[@yourbonesareminenow]

(I’ve had a very similar experience) I would suggest telling him your not comfortable going to church or church activities but you’d love to hang out with him other times outside of church (assuming that that’s the case)

[@amandacamposrodriguez9971]

Some of this people just want to keep members or are looking for people who would easily join the church, so I suggest you let him clear you want to be just friends but you dont want to be part of the church, and if he keeps trying to convince you, you should run away and accept is not a real friend, but just there for the increasing members numbers.

[@lindanorton2088]

The worst thing I saw was our church and missionaries pressured a woman to get speedily married. Once they were married they had children and then it was revealed that the man was in trouble for dating a Coman who was 17 when he was 23. The church members blasted their info on Facebook and made it a living hell for the young family. The child has extreme nervous ticks and the woman that was pressured into marriage looks very worn and depleted.

[@JohnHarper-ew2gk]

Come on now, those two didn't have any reasons of their own to get married? Went on to have kids and create a family. Did they ever leave the Church where the people were being so unkind?

[@lindanorton2088]

@@JohnHarper-ew2gk Of course they left! Who could stay after those accusations?

[@pris1378]

where i live mormon missionaries are very easy to avoid: their clothing makes them stick out like sore thumbs, they are always in pairs, and therefore you can spot them a mile away and easily avoid them.

[@birdybirdy846]

Is it true that if a Mormon couple divorces, the man receives all of his former wife's property including her inheritance?

[@nomollyshere]

Never heard that one and I’m a former Mormon🤔maybe waaaay back in the day before women had any rights under the law (USA) but pretty sure that’s not legal in 2023.

[@mollymaciulla1917]

Smashed that subscribe button ❤

[@kassrripples3659]

Is it true the writers and producers who wrote the first few episodes of the Simpsons and Rugrats were connected to the LDS … ?

[@mariehillerman5579]

All of you so beautiful. Inside and out.

[@deadxdreadxpunk6091]

That cat is adorable 🥺

[@dominiquephilip4484]

Next time a pair of these young people come to my door, I'll offer them a meal. Unbelievable. There is no way I would join, but this is bad.

[@maureenbrown6610]

Do Mormons pray eight times a day?

[@ark194]

Man a low point in my life was when something bad happened and I went to the liquor store. Morman missionaries bum rushed me as I was grumbling something under my breath while carrying my beer to my car. I thought to myself, "oh Jesus" I just had a witness to my misery and I am totally undignified...these two ppl are here to watch and scoop me up. Great. Lol. I wanted them to go away Sooo bad.

[@penguins776]

I think it’s funny because I lived in Portland and I find it the opposite. The Mormon church in my former ward in Portland have been prioritized some “grand” rules and then the small stuff doesn’t matter. If you had coffee, what ever, wearing tank tops whatever, my former young women’s president had purple hair (and she was devote Mormon at least at the time). Moved to a more Mormon area. Suddenly all of things were more serious sins. Suddenly you couldn’t be friends with anyone who wasn’t a “devoted member”. There were now rules that seem made up. Like I went on a date with a guy who refused to play any card game (even go fish) because it could appear like they were gambling.

[@alentia_thegreat]

I struggled so much with missionaries moving away, I was so lonely and I loved having the sister's come and hang out with me, luckily I still talk to them sometimes. Hang on $20k, the missions cost $20 THOUSAND!!? Good life.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I heard (pretty sure from these two) it was $10k/year 🫠

[@brianwaller7383]

And the missionaries have to pay even though the church is worth 145 billion

[@danielladavis8705]

I have heard a few people suggest possibility of Mormon church accepting gay marriage ten years from now and then pretending they accepted it all along. Interesting and heartbreaking.

[@DeanMartinson-ci3lk]

Some of the missionaries do well, it depends where they are sent, specially if they are attractive females. I noticed it in the community I’m from that the more attractive females would have more perks, nice cars to get around, nice living conditions so it seems.

[@warrengraham5419]

I gotta say the weirdest thing about this whole conversation is how successful the missionary was. I mean JWs put in something like 10,000 hours per baptism, and that is not even removing the born-in baptisms from the count. Basically zero effectiveness.