Mormon and Neurodivergent (Autism and ADHD or AuDHD) - Paul Martinez | Ep. 1986

[@paulmartinezsd]

What's up, beautiful people! So happy to share my story. If I may please address the labeling and terminology. For starters, I knew there would be controversy. Terms such as "neurodivergent," "autistic," "person with autism," "high/low support needs," etc., can mean so much depending on who you ask. Some despise being labeled as having high/low support needs because it's so broad-some may need no support in one area and a lot in another. It also feels clinical, and people don't like the idea that they are being studied in some scientific manner. Others despise the "person with autism" label because it denies their identity and feels like it's coming from a source of political correctness. You would never say a deaf person is a "person with deafness." Others despise the term "neurodivergent" because it's more complicated than just being "different" and denies the singular trauma that comes with autism and ADHD. All I ask is that we allow the individual to identify as they choose. This way, we affirm their autonomy and agency, acknowledge diversity, and introduce a greater spirit of cooperation. Thanks so much for all your thoughts, and I look forward to helping spread our gospel that is kindness, love, affirmation, and acceptance.

[@lotion_laura]

Great story! We have a lot in common. I joined at 18 and served a mission at 21. We have the same last name. 🙂

[@trixieloo]

Thank you for your vulnerability and honesty.

[@bethelbethel845]

This is The Way ♾️♾️♾️♾️♾️

[@Another_b4891]

Thank you for sharing!!! This was so wonderful. You could be like a speaker for ADD and autism

[@jlarchigirl]

Absolutely loved your story. Related in so many ways. I'm also a project architect. Currently doing work in California. Left the church about a year ago and just related to this so incredibly much. No one has put words to how it feels to leave like this. Thank you for sharing your brain with us.

[@janalynelzinga3970]

When Margi talked about loneliness when in a relationship with a narcissistic person... That hit hard. My mother, my only parent in my teen years, was a narcissist. When I think back to that time, what I remember is being lonely and feeling invisible. Because of my own neurodivergence, I didn't have many friends, and then being lonely in my own home and family as well... That is devastating.

[@flyawayfarmstead]

What a sweetheart! He explained ADHD better than any explanation I have ever heard.

[@Another_b4891]

And Autism.

[@janetlynn1708]

This is one of the best Mormon Stories I have heard. You had my full attention the whole time.......all three of you were great!!

[@sweetmountainviolet]

I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but as a queer person with AuDHD, this is the most relatable Mormon Stories yet. The church offered structure, not having to deal with the unknown, and community. But it wasn't true and it stole my identity. "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

Great point, great insights. I needed those three things too. The church really is a trap for neurodivergent people because of those three things. Neurotypical people need them too, but they have the capability to cultivate them on their own if they have to. I haven't been able to find or reconstruct structure, predictability, or community since leaving the church. Partly because, since they provided it, I didn't have to learn how to do it for myself during my formative years.

[@Sarahwithanh444]

“The church… stole my identity”. 🔥🔥

[@andradanielleparrott]

I am a teacher and have been to hours of professional development on ADHD, but this interview has given me some huge insights into the minds of my students. Thank you Paul, for helping me become a better teacher to my neurodivergent students.

[@megandickson4102]

This would be my experience too. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 10. Been on and off meds the entire time (now 38 and 1.5yrs exmo). Rebuilding is like being a baby in the world trying to raise yourself. This interview was good to hear the representation of neurodivergent people breaking "foundation" of the church. It's a monstrous task for us. It was our world in which we are to survive. The message was that I COULDN'T survive without it. 😢

[@MoreWordsPlease]

I also grew up with a dad who alienated me from my mom and her family, and had a violent temper. It gave me shivers when you described the fear from being robbed at gunpoint as being similar to being in the path of your father's anger as a child. I understand that fear and still have not fully purged that memory from my body. I'm also audhd and understand how black & white thinking and scrupulosity play a big part in how one experiences mormonism. In my teen years I also kept some things to myself during bishop's interviews out of blind panic of the consequences & then spent most of my life convinced that every good thing I ever did was invalidated by my sins. What a weight to bear! The church had me tied in piles of knots for decades. I cried when you said that you didn't know how to recieve love or didn't believe that anyone could ever really love you. I'm still in the middle of recognizing those beliefs inside myself and learning to apply compassion and grieve for everything I've lost. Sometimes I feel like all I do is cry but it's such a relief to peel off one tiny piece of sadness at a time and set it aside so my body can finally rest and heal. Also, like you, I married young. My husband and I are still together and we have 3 children who aren't yet grown. But ten years after my faith crisis I'm finally able to admit that I'm bisexual and have known for 20 years but have kept it carefully tucked away like it was a bomb that might go off and destroy everything. But thank you so much for being willing to be vulnerable and visible!! Your story has made me feel valid and normal and real. ❤

[@jenniferanderson4201]

Margi is a true treasure, can we please honor and protect her!?!❤ Thank you Paul for sharing your beautiful spirit with us. Leaving the church was and still is a true challenge for my autistic young adult son. Thank you for speaking to this challenging, complex circumstance.

[@rainajones8170]

Can you elaborate on protecting Margie?

[@SuzanneBarthelemy]

⁠@@rainajones8170it’s just a figure of speech that’s been popular for the last few years. “____ is a treasure and we must protect him/her at all costs!” Jennifer is just saying that Margi is wonderful and we cherish her ❤

[@amygreen758]

Thanks for listening to our requests to have neurodivergent guests and guests who suffered in Mormonism with disability. I dealt with selective mutism and autoimmune diseases as a child, which was so traumatizing in that religion. Thank you for a chance to relate.

[@Another_b4891]

Did you feel like you should have been healed? Just curious. Everyone has such a fascinating story with this religion.

[@lisagrace6471]

YESSSS. The first thing to go for me MANY years ago was the word of wisdom. I found out the hard way that wheat and grain made me sick. So then I fell for plant based to try and help my health issues for along time, and it ruined my digestion even more. All I mean is, that is outdated information in SO many ways. I think different diets work for different people and different health conditions.

[@lisagrace6471]

And get the church to care about those with any food allergies or health conditions outside of the norm - good luck. I had a relief society president who knew I had food allergies hand me a plate of treats on my birthday in my house and as she handed it to me said "Oh yeah, you can't eat this" and STILL put it in my hands. Don't even get me started on my child. So glad that we left at least before he got to priesthood ages.

[@davidisrael-zz1zz]

Some of It was illogical, but I know it is true. I feel it. I felt the love of Jesus. Learning Jesus was a failure, and that Joseph Smith was restoring the true gospel=do his ordinances and earn salvation. Even sexual purity which was easy for Joseph as he heard from Jesus to seal young girls and other men's wives to himself while lying to his wife while she did not feel the Holy Spirit's endorsement. Yet he wakes up and leaves the church. But loneliness is not good. Jesus is my best friend and savior from sin= freedom never alone. and I have ADD set free in a relationship with Him.

[@davidisrael-zz1zz]

exactly

[@ginamarquardt-sz8xm]

Mormon stories is a special interest! I can’t explain why I listen, I am not Mormon, to my husband, but I still do. It’s the perfect background to whatever is going on for the day. i’ve also learned a lot about high demand religion, as I was not raised in one. It’s interesting to see how that applies to other things as well.

[@missionledcontent]

Ha ha I'm exactly the same! I've gone down the Mormon stories rabbit hole as a non Mormon and it's definitely a special interest no-one around me understands lol

[@shanepratt3568]

So many of us who are older are just now starting to understand why we did things as we grew up. I was an elementary school teacher for 32 years and I am now realizing, after helping countless children, that I might have some form of neurodivergence.

[@duplessis3]

What a thoughtful and caring person! and his description of ADHD is spot on. He has such a depth of compassion. One of the best I've heard.

[@avantgauche]

this is such an impactful interview. I'm neurodiverent from a neurodivergent family who has also suffered from narcissistic abuse from an undiagtnosed family member. As part of my healing journey, I've listened to many interviews with people in controlling relationships with people and organisations to the point where it has become a special interest . I could relate so much to Paul's story and how his neurodivergence interaced with his Mormon journey.Thak your all for your candor , empathy, patience and understanding in this discussion

[@marlena98148]

Oh THIS is gonna be super relatable as a fellow late diagnosed AuDHer, thank you in advance John @MormonStories for this subject

[@paulmartinezsd]

I sure do hope so! I would love for my story to help other people 😀.

[@aesthetic_paul]

YES we love it

[@Memymo-c8r]

Super excited about this episode! As an AuDHD person, my experience with religion and family dynamics, including narcissism, played a huge role in my life and ultimately was the reason I had to leave my family behind and move far away and create boundaries from them and the religion.

[@spunkycat6144]

Me tooooo❤

[@hedgehogsinspace]

Thanks for another excellent video! As someone with ADHD who struggled with religious scrupulosity and is married to someone with Autism, I related to this one HARD.

[@susanwilliams70]

I was what the missionaries called "Golden" at the time of my conversion also. I still remember the one Elder's name. This was 49 years ago. I left the church three years after my mission in 1993.

[@spunkycat6144]

This guy needs to write a book, blog, podcast, youtube, all of it😊. Each topic could be discussed so much more.

[@not.samcooke]

damnit, Paul!! i was so touched by this episode, from how you talk (reminds me of back home in SoCal) to defining ADHD (my current partner has it too) to your faith journey to going to Burning Man 🪩 thank you so much for sharing yourself and your beautiful story!! 💖

[@trixieloo]

What a beautiful, insightful interview. Paul has clearly done so much work to understand himself and his “why” in life. Radical self expression! Love it. Margie brought such a meaningful depth to the conversation, especially her comments on people (and institutions) with narcissistic traits. Thank you!

[@whitajeman]

Thank you @paulmartinezsd for this wonderful, vulnerable interview. I experienced an abusive relationship and my son is Autistic. I related so much to your story & it was lovely to hear about your journey!

[@sun-ship]

Paul has a gift for communication.

[@amymac41890]

He sure does! I really enjoyed this episode

[@ryanb.wilkinson8828]

I disagree. I found him very annoying to listen to.

[@Alibee123]

I’m the glittery sheep in my family. I was taught there were ‘good’ (obedient) and ‘bad’ (disobedient) children at church. I made a goal to be a ‘good’ one and tried to earn the acceptance and love of my parents and their tricky God. My parents claimed they could make any child behave. Exasperated parents sent their (adhd) children to my parents to ‘sort out.’ Threats and various kinds of violence were used in an attempt to break children into obedience using similar methods to ‘blanket training’. They demanded children control their emotions and regulate themselves better than what they as adults were able to. Most people in and out of the church thought my parents exemplary as I appeared so ‘well behaved’. After years of therapy this is still not easy for me to talk about. My own child diagnosed audhd will never have to feel they need to prove or be anything they are not to have my support and love.

[@eleesab4883]

Thank you, Paul, for the AuDHD representation with your Mormon story! I appreciate your bravery.

[@WayOutHerePodcast]

I have an ADHD diagnosis and I'm medicated, and you are teaching me so much about my diagnosis. I am really blown away. You have an excellent knowledge and a great way of articulating some of the symptoms and super powers and specialties of ADHD and neurodivergence. Thank you! Really appreciate this.

[@madelinesmith1363]

Loved hearing Paul's story and perspective. Seeing his emotion throughout this conversation was beautiful. Wishing him all the best out of life! 😊

[@letahamilton]

Every time an episode drops, I’m so excited & never disappointed

[@audreyr6854]

i have never been mormon but grew up in the christian church with undiagnosed adhd. i didn’t find out until my last year of college and it was so validating to finally know why i struggled so much with simple things! so much of what he says resonates with me. loved hearing his story!

[@kaysharogers32]

I devoured this episode!

[@supervegetariangeek]

I'm a never mormon and neurodivergent and have been watching ex/post mormon content for over a year now. I am also in the architecture field (as a lighting designer). Love that he shouted out autodesk in a critical way, Revit is my life and it deserves all the criticism lol. This interview brought a lot of things full circle for me, I can relate to a lot of it. Deconstruction has been a special interest of mine because I need to know that people aren't inherently bigoted.

[@deloymecham214]

Good program seen alot of kindness

[@jillhughes9009]

What a intelligent and self aware person. So well spoken.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

What an ableist comment.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

To just clarify, a little, on the description of ADHD: Paperwork and chores aren't "boring" in the sense that neurotypical people think of the term. They find paperwork boring too. It's just that unbeknownst to neurotypical people, their brain gives them a tiny chemical reward for completing a goal, however unpleasant the task itself was. People with ADHD don't have that. Every chore we do, we do without a chemical reward. It's all drudgery. It's not boredom, it's meaningless pain. And it's even worse when the chore is something we have to do every day. Not only is there no chemical reward, there's also no real-world reward. For example, if you mow the lawn really well? Good for you, you don't have to do it again right away. It doesn't matter how well anyone does the dishes, there will always be more dishes. That's how every boring task feels to the ADHD brain.

[@helyns1416]

Exactly. Boring tasks elicit pain, rage, and depression. It's not just boredom or preference or laziness. It can be paralyzing. I'm currently in an eating disorder program bc you know what sucks? Having to eat multiple times a day every day for the rest of my life. Every part of the process is a persistent challenge and even if I have a good day or find a good tool it never turns into a long term habit.

[@paulmartinezsd]

I like to say that it's not only boring, but dreadful. It's like when you realize it's leg day at the gym...your whole body fills with a crushing anxiety.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

@@helyns1416 Well said! I'm sorry that eating has been a difficult thing to manage for you too. I should look into a program, my issues there have only gotten worse since I got braces. I hope the program is helpful to you! Creating long term habits is so hard, it's no joke. Hugs to you!

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

@@paulmartinezsd That's a great way to explain it. And on top of that crushing feeling, apparently sometimes in order to force ourselves to get through the crushing task we run on cortisol. So it's like our brain is using cortisol to make up for a lack of dopamine. No reward but bonus stress? Gee thanks, brain!

[@marlenemeyer9841]

Something else is I can’t focus on something “boring”. There isn’t enough stimulation to be able to understand or decode or do a task. My brain needs stimulation to function. If I allow a task to get to the deadline or beyond then there is enough “stress” to stimulate my brain so I can accomplish a task. If something is “boring” to my brain I literally cannot understand it. I’m intelligent but I cannot decode things like instructions to a game or how to set a clock on a microwave. The ADHD brain craves novelty because it needs the chemical release just to function.

[@tawnyachristensen7310]

So many of us figure out that we're neurodivergent as adults, thanks for sharing your story Paul!

[@argood59]

What an amazing episode all the way around episode. What a sincere Human Being, thank you Paul for sharing the learning of the discovery of your emotions, beliefs, disbeliefs, pains, sorrows, joys and discovering of your most latest life. Excelente ❤ John and Margie thank you ❤❤

[@Latter-Day-Aint]

This is very relatable to me, as a former Restoration Branch priesthood member (a break-off of the RLDS) from the Independence area. Mental health was not acknowledged and I grew up with extreme anxiety/depression, and undiagnosed dyslexia. I was very awkward and didn't know how to make friends or ask girls out on dates. Later in life, it's complicated to be diagnosed with conditions on the autism spectrum, so I've had to focus on treating the symptoms rather than validation of diagnoses. I self-identify as neurodivergent and struggle with ADHD. I dreaded church, and prayer was panic attack inducing. I've come through a lot of it, finding the most peace by placing distance between myself and the church. Before the CES Letter, the book "Partway To Utah" broke my shelf. I appreciate his story and it's comforting to know I'm not alone in my experience.

[@aneleseallen5491]

Really related to this episode. I found this really affirming. Thank you for being so vulnerable and transparent about your story. ❤

[@JulianneLauraMamaMemories]

Oh my gosh. I saw this and felt like bursting into tears. This is so needed. Two wonderful things in my life coming together. Currently both deconstructing my faith (nevermo, but a lot of similarities), along with figuring out my neurodiversity and feeling both… lost… and like a blank slate with an unknown and exciting future. I’ve been a high achiever my whole life… (and I believe high masking). Diagnosed as an adult as adhd and experienced what I believe to be autistic burnout during the pandemic when a lot of my supports disappeared. I haven’t returned to the same level of functioning as before and no longer WANT to live the same way. My worth is not based on my achievement nor productivity… yet I need to redefine it. The world of neurodiversity feels so daunting, but understanding myself is so so needed. I can no longer physically and mentally push through situations that I used to be able to and… it’s left me… without effective tools… with a lot of shame… and just not knowing what to do to best navigate my own life. Ok. Going to listen. But had to pause for a message and a cry. Feel very seen and grateful. I only listened to 5 minutes, but just people talking about “high functioning”/low support needs neurodiversity in a culture that values performance and appearance so highly, is such a gift. People don’t think of people “like me” having a disability… and there is a ton of internalized ableism. Seeing it talked about on a platform like this means a lot!

[@JulianneLauraMamaMemories]

Also been abused and taken advantage of and had no idea it was related initially. It’s been a process of seeing how these things have come together.

[@paulmartinezsd]

I’ll cry with you. Life can be so hard.

[@markdaniels3373]

Thank you for bringing this beautiful soul. He's a catch for a loving partner.

[@jodeesmith3282]

I grew up with a brother with ADHD (born in ‘63) thank you for helping me understand him more. We lost him when he was 38 and have so many unanswered questions. I’ve deconstructed from the LDS church/cult/corporation but still believe in life after this one. Thank you for sharing ❤ you have touched me in a big way!!!!

[@sammie7162]

Really beautiful interview with incredibly captivating storytelling by Paul. Thank you for your vulnerability

[@klggrabo]

Absolutely loved this episode!

[@dianethulin1700]

Paul I used to live in Santa Monica as well. I lived in the Sea Castle Apartments until the earthquake (they have rebuilt the building) and then moved to Palms. I think you sound like you were around that area? We used to love to eat at Pancho Tacos at Lincoln & Pico, also Georges on Lincoln; a truly excellent burger joint that was a little sketchy. I also lived in Topanga and my ex is from Malibu. I am devastated for all of those people who lost their homes recently in all those places I know so well Thank you so much for speaking out as someone who is Neurodivergent and ADHD in a good way to help educate those who don't understand. It is so helpful and important! Many autistic people in my family including my beautiful grandson. It hasn't always been easy

[@lynnpowell-macklin7328]

Thank you for sharing your story! My daughter has ADHD & autism and I love the way he explained how the two diagnosis’s bring about different things. When the video began he had a big smile on his face and I recognized that from my daughter. The adults in the office at her school used to call her “Smiley,” because when she was uncomfortable (most of the time) she always just smiled. ADHD manifests a little differently in girls too and that made it harder to get diagnosed. Girls typically don’t run around and cause a ruckus like boys typically do. This is important to remember if you have kids. Thank you! We’re in San Diego too.

[@sandaroocompilations5182]

Great interview! I loved Paul’s honesty and insights. He’s truly a remarkable person.

[@dianethulin1700]

Don't forget that the original Burning Man still exists in San Francisco at Ocean Beach! It still adherers to the original ethos and it is FREE!

[@whitajeman]

Really looking forward to this interview & suspect that I will watch it several times. Thank you for this MSP!! My son has autism & I suspect his Dad has some undiagnosed neurological conditions. He struggles with regulation in many forms to the point that he was abusive in the past (I was able to leave that situation safely eventually). My son is not a member & I am so thanful that I have been able to raise him without the boundaries of the church especially as it relates to his special needs.

[@iamjustsaying1]

He captured the essence and excitement of a young convert who believes that an amazing truth is being revealed. I felt the same.

[@katlizski]

I am diagnosed with ADHD. I am also a mom to 4 kids I am pretty sure they all have ADHD but I only have one kid diagnosed so far. this will definitely be an interesting topic to watch. I left the Mormon church 6 years ago.

[@harpfully]

Likely yeah. I'm an AuDHD mom to 3 AuDHD kids

[@sherryg1838]

Loved hearing about Paul’s experiences. I think anyone can relate and learn, no matter their diagnosis.

[@AndreaMaeJ]

I appreciate your perspective and can relate in so many ways. I also have ADHD (diagnosed) and probably some autistic traits if I'm being honest. The way you describe so many things just fits my life experience 100%. Thank you for sharing your story!

[@msmdare]

Thank you so much for all the sharing Paul. My son was you and seeing you well up and sharing what life is like for someone on the spectrum reminded me of the pain of people being so mean and using him. He had such a good heart. Yes he is gone too soon.😢❤🌹

[@wizardbrandproducts]

Powerful episode. Thank you.

[@jameswalberg3265]

This is such an important epidode. Only John and Margie could have done this.

[@Zeett09]

Not sure why but I really liked Paul’s speaking style. Great interview.

[@melissaowen9689]

Paul - you seem to be an incredible human. You’ve done the emotional work in so many ways - I’ve learned a lot by listening to your story. Thank you for sharing ❤

[@DanielFreed-f2b]

Excellent interview

[@pianomanchristopher]

Paul, you ARE a badass;). I can relate in many ways. I'm ASD and an exMo - also divorced. I hear ya man;)

[@LoraleeNunley]

My heart goes out to you. My gosh. I get it.

[@annheydt3731]

Compelling, interesting story. Love this guy & his authentic and caring nature.

[@Secular-Serenity]

Very interesting guest. Loved this video.

[@beckyburnett8641]

Great episode!

[@blckprsthd4791]

This resonates so much. Thank you Paul. I've often wondered as much as the church preaches several gifts for each member, why couldn't the prophets seers and revelators that make the missionary assignments discern each missionary's gifts/superpowers and send them to do work that they are best suited for? If the church were near as true, this should not be impossible for god to do.

[@Deepdiver4U]

It’s comparable to the analogy of the goldfish being thrown away in the ocean inside his bowl, and even though he has the entirety of the ocean, he can never leave his bowl

[@barbarasmith2130]

Now THAT is exactly what I needed today!!

[@iamjustsaying1]

I relate to this story so much that I'm shocked and triggered. I didn't expect to relate, (certainly not to this extent), because I've never been diagnosed as neurodivergent. But, boy, this feels familiar.

[@Another_b4891]

This helps so much in so many ways. Especially hearing about neurodiversity.

[@helyns1416]

My heart hurts for the way he describes autism. I would not have solely described it as deficiencies or being "not the best" at things. That's not a criticism, I understand why he would think/feel/say that, but I would highlight things like monotropism, stimming, the double empathy problem, etc. I would also clarify that neurodivergence is not just autism and adhd. Honestly it's a good prompting to do some of my own writing and advocacy. It's an honor to hear just one of the many untold stories of neurodivergent experience and trauma. I hope people who are encountering some of this information for the first time understand the incredible diversity within the autistic/neurodivergent communities.

[@iamjessjoy]

finding out about monotropism was one of the best things to ever happen to me!!! ironically, I could talk about it for days on end. loved your comment ❤

[@paulmartinezsd]

Thanks for your comment! I was thinking long and hard about how to explain ASD, from terms to use to whose perspective to take. I tried to take a medical/psychiatric point of view ("deficiencies, "prefrontal cortex") and then switch to an ableist perspective ("we're just a minority"), and then finally address the issues people have with the ableist term ("we're a vulnerable and traumatized people, not just 'different'"). The discussions regarding ASD/ADHD have evolved, and depending on when and where you were born, one will appear more appropriate than the other. I knew there would be some controversy but decided to go for it anyway. Thanks for sharing!

[@emmasusan1997]

Thank you! I tried to express similar sentiments in another comment and it came across wrong. You have worded it much better❤

[@a_blaser]

This is an incredible episode, thank you Paul for sharing your story! So much of what you shared resonated deeply with me. Best wishes!

[@larias3907]

Wow… amazing. Thank you MS and Paul.

[@aaronhawkins1541]

❤You rock Paul, thanks for sharing ❤

[@spunkycat6144]

He is describing my Dad, and I am only on minute 7. But mine added alcoholic rage, and returning from Vietnam, but he was that way to begin with and so were his divorced parents. He just beat till ya passed out. And he still can't acknowledge any of it.

[@barbarasmith2130]

Those poor boys who went to war and came back really so much worse than before. Then their kids copped a rough time. And no way to talk about any of it. 😢😢😢

[@rubyoliver2942]

Mormonism is my special interest and I have never been Mormon lol

[@spunkycat6144]

I think my neighbor would LOVE this guy❤.

[@markkrispin6944]

This is a very powerful interview

[@naturelovin-29]

I loved this episode! So powerful and incredibly true. I’m a non practicing member who left with my family 2 years ago.

[@avasgranb1]

Struggles with learning and social interactions may also come from other places. For myself, as a senior, my education and social interactions were made difficult by my sight. Back then, much of teaching was based on the chalkboard. So I didn’t even know what I was missing. It wasn’t until 7th grade that my vision was tested, and I got glasses.

[@ileneoverall6165]

I am alone and I love it!

[@Marangelification]

Super interview

[@jayroach947]

Great job Senor Polito, thank you for another great guess.

[@cathyray6030]

Thank you!! ❤

[@spunkycat6144]

Omg, the last question by Margie is life helping❤.

[@andrewrwhitfield]

Awesome episode!

[@spunkycat6144]

I have SO much in common with him (during his missionary years) The family aloof and not caring or communicating while I was in the military but really not approving anything with the church. 😮

[@nicolerichman595]

Love love love!!!

[@jaymesc1018]

I love how he framed neurotypical people in the minority. Neurotypical’s have different behaviors as well but because we are the majority it’s not viewed as such.

[@some-guy-out-there-]

I know someone has figured it out when they describe it like you did. Just the pain, betrayal, and grief. It hurts. Six months later still processing it for myself but finding benefits on the other side. God i wished it was true. It's just not

[@KarenSuzMorris]

Great episode!!! I can so relate!!!

[@ant.o.nina.123]

I feel like this explained my work world effectively. Also so can relate to the faucet being so easily turned on.

[@larias3907]

“They give it to you so they can take it away”

[@tinaquinones6969]

Grew up in LA love Tito’s Tacos ❤

[@spunkycat6144]

Funny, I was adoring the stitching and color of that jacket and the shirt and tie before they ever mentioned outfits. Yes, everyone should dress how they want.

[@pebblebrookbooks4852]

Great guest!! 🤩

[@JaredSJones82]

This is amazing!

[@ew5301]

LOVE ❤ thank you so much !!!!!!

[@pbgrace1]

Don’t know if this was mentioned yet, but low supports needs is the updated term for high functioning (this is related to the description)

[@mormonstories]

Thank you for this correction @ pbgrace. We will fix the description ASAP. I am sorry that we got this wrong. We will be more careful/educated in the future.

[@phoenixrising5338]

I have a problem with the members being the salt of the earth and unwitting victims. The members are the enforcers. That includes your spouse and your kids, in many cases. If you question or you leave, the members and your family are the enforcers. So they are not just victims, they are complicit. You run into a double whammy when your spouse is literally a narcissist and you divorce him for abuse. Talk about running into the enforcement juggernaut. The church hates you for divorcing, "airing dirty laundry" (abuse) and besmirching the public image of the church, and the narcissist trots out his whole arsenal, including "you've destroyed the eternal family." The bishop, stake president, R.S. president, and much of the congregation are too often right behind him.

[@bmo5082]

It’s a mixed bag though. Not all members are of the same mindset. Some are great, some aren’t.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

@@bmo5082 The church (as in the leadership, the institution) doesn't want decent people. We can see evidence for this in Paul's story, the dismissive and cruel ways that leadership in his ward treated inactive members. Neither the local nor the general leadership would've supported "extra" effort on his part to reach out to those people to actually meet their needs, even if there wasn't the promise of more attendance or tithing numbers in return. The church tolerates people like Paul because they care so much about PR. But authoritarian, bigoted, obedience-first members are definitely their preference. If they had their way, all members would be cruel in private and "nice" in public.

[@beckyburnett8641]

Oh he nailed it .... Fear just the same in the church. I don't them no on a calling then left.

[@StevenAlaenyaHendrix]

I love the test you gave yourself- imagine saying no to this person, terror!

[@larias3907]

Margo was also amazing!

[@4leafclovermomto3]

I enjoyed this. I did notice how Paul kept acknowledging John and never Margie, which spoke a lot to systemic misogyny. Anyone else hear that? I tried to ignore it, but it really bothered me. Aside from that, there was so much about this story that resonates. Thank you for sharing.

[@Zeett09]

My wife left the LDS faith due to the shame culture. She had a child out of wedlock and the whole family (her, siblings, and parents) was shamed right out of the church. Lucky her family chose her over the church.