The Excommunication of Bishop Sam Pinson and his Family in Ammon, Idaho Pt. 3 - Mormon Stories 1323

[@puppy7505]

it's "patently obvious" Sam Jr. should host a TV or radio show. That voice! That vocabulary! A brilliant future in broadcasting awaits if he wants it.

[@amandacollins518]

I agree!

[@damonm3]

These kids... so mature. And Olivia is so sweet and thoughtful.

[@UtahProspector]

This interview is THE Definition of healthy, open and honest communication between family members. I am soooo happy for you guys! I love the authenticity.

[@bdm1957]

Thank you for sharing your experience, I was a Bishop and like you found out about the history of the Church and have a real problem with leaders not being HONEST in all their dealings - like they expect from the members. John, please keep up these Mormon Stories - you do such a great job and very useful for so many members that are afraid of coming out of the faith closet!

[@sandiekaye5241]

Olivia thinks she doesn't have a handle on how to articulate how she feels. She doesn't ...she has an amazing gift for articulating how she feels/felt in such a glorious way someone "out there" is yelling, "Yes! That's it! That is how I felt too." What a lovely brave young woman. Thank you Olivia.

[@savanawomack9774]

I love Olivia and Sarah. Their perspectives are so valuable. People who are going through a faith crisis will find their perspectives so helpful. Growing up in the church, the women’s view is overshadowed or not heard on a large scale. I wish I could’ve heard from Olivia more throughout all of the interviews.

[@sandiekaye5241]

And then this marvelous young man Sam, Jr. with his very insightful, well beyond his years wisdom and understanding of the things he was taught, believed, and trusted just falling into pieces around him and he is explaining it to all of us. I agree, this young man needs a platform. But until he is ready for that, go forth young man and learn all you can. You have a message and a purpose.

[@define3855]

I don't know how I got here from watching Mormon Housewives to this but I'm kind of glad I did. I don't have any knowledge of the Mormon religion but I love listening to people's life stories. This was so eye opening to me. The Pinson family are beautiful inside and out. Keep on living your life. Life is beautiful and it will get better.

[@lsonnabend9044]

What a wonderful family. VERY SMART KIDS. ✌👍🏼👏

[@ThorWildBoar]

Ridiculously smart.

[@420girl4life]

Clapping out loud while sitting alone in my house for this amazing family and these INCREDIBLE kids! I'm a nevermo, but my dad's family is all Mormon, and all live in IF. I hope one day they all get to be as free as you all are. Being a non-Mo with lots of Mo family was hard, it was like there was a special club we weren't allowed in (not being able to see my aunt get married HURT). But we were non-denominational, so I had the assurance that I had the RIGHT religion. Happy to have freed myself from that equally damaging epistemology.

[@tomweisser6203]

What amazing kids. Sara and Sam you did a great job raising them, and Olivia and Sam Jr. you are so very mature and wise for your years. Olivia Live for Life and live your best life everyday. As a former member of the Church, I so relate to every bit of this conversation

[@kellydaniels5594]

I love these episodes where you bring the kids in. It's so interesting to have their perspective. Please do this more! Sam Jr is so incredibly articulate and thoughtful... So much respect for that teenager

[@vagabondmom448]

What a lovely family. Each of you are so very well spoken. Thank you for sharing your story

[@mostlyvoid.partiallystars]

Sam Jr is so sharp and articulate. Good for him.

[@corybarrus9181]

Olivia and Sam Jr., You two are the smartest people your age I have ever had the privilege of listening to. Thank you for your thoughts and perspective. I wish I was more like you when I was younger and even now. Keep it up! Great things in store for you.

[@mormonstories]

Amen

[@fernandoseminario9811]

One of the reasons they are smart is because of the influence of their parents and the environment they grew up in,

[@fernandoseminario9811]

I knew Sam's Parents and they were wonderful Parents and Wonderful members of the Church, I am sorry to hear this happened to their family, I listen to what they said about the LBGTQ hate the church encourages, and it is not true,

[@sjpinson]

@@fernandoseminario9811 Hi, Fernando! I'm not sure I understood your comment - are you're saying that the church doesn't encourage hate/judgment against LGBTQ folks?

[@maryanne2772]

I sense some kindred spirits as I listen to this family, and these teenagers remind me so much of my children. A lot of these discussion topics and tangents are similar to those that circulate my mind - like the parts where you are talking about Mormon “prophets” justifying errors made by previous presidents of the church and the insanity that is and always has been the LDS church (as well as many other churches) being centuries behind the times concerning social issues, etc. I think about so many of these things, and it is refreshing to hear them discussed in this series. Also, I love how courageous and open everyone is. Brilliant!

[@delta932899]

Loved the Pinson’s. Sam Jr is one smart kid. Very well spoken young man

[@benjamingardea4511]

The courage of Sam Jr and Olivia is incredible!!

[@tonyarodgers2885]

Thank you for sharing your story. Your story was so powerful for me. One of my issues with not being able to leave the church alone is one fact. The members still continue telling everyone that they belong to the one true church. They continue to send missionaries out in the world to lie. Why can’t they leave the world alone? Live in their little bubble and keep quite to themselves? That is what I struggle with. Best of luck to this beautiful family!

[@markh.harris9271]

The reason is simple. Mormonism is a billions $dollar holding company for at least seven (7) for profit corporations; its a pipeline of money and power, where only the masons (satanists) at the top of the scheme really have the whole picture of the power and the delusion. The folks at Sam Pinson's level don't have a clue--- not, that is, until they bump into the CES letter, or read other non mormon literature and then start asking questions for themselves.

[@carolinew1152]

Many years ago, maybe 1981, my father in law sent me a book to read to be prepared for a visit from my husbands brother who was totally in a cult. One that they always shuffled their feet never picking their feet up. His teeth were black-green from something they were eating. Never smile. It was some sort of religion on the east coast. He could hardly utter sentences because he was born with a mental slowness... so obviously easy to control. The father was desperate to get him out of their cluches and he agreed to come see us for a short while. So, I get the book, I read about 10 pages and I’m having these thoughts that run through my mind that “I’m” in a cult! I was sooooo shocked and I slammed the book closed and went and threw it under my bed! For 3 days I walked around the house trying to make sense out of that thought that “l” was in a cult! Thoughts, memories, feelings flooding me just from reading a few pages of a book describing what a cult is. I then crawled under the bed and got the book. And read it. It wasn’t then about convincing my brother in law that he was in a cult.... it was me seeing for the first time that I was!!!! That something was way wrong with the church!

[@randomname4726]

​@@carolinew1152 That's amazing, thanks for sharing.

[@ceejaybeard9121]

Such a sweet, kind, loving, smart family. Such a hard thing to go through. But what growth. So glad to see they’re on their way to healing together. ♥️

[@louisecoulombe2854]

Love their kids. So well-spoken, very intelligent. I think they'll both do great things in this world.

[@annalovesrnm]

- so impressed with your kids! well-spoken, thoughtful and mature

[@semidemiurge]

Truly impressive kids and a great family.

[@thedailyswirl]

I love the reply to the stake president saying he’s not giving you permission to leave, “It’s not yours to give” mic drop, finger snaps.

[@bdcottr]

Sam Jr you're a stud, super articulate and rational beyond your years

[@AzukaTheGoat]

Wow this family are amazing. I’m so glad they found healing.

[@Roxykthv1]

This is more of a side note than a remark on this episode because I have so many thoughts on the topic and I absolutely love Mormon Stories ….. but as a side I love how many episodes I watch and how many beautiful woman’s arms I see. As someone who came from abuse and men taking away my “cleanness” as a child the church really just added onto my trauma by teachings like covering our arms and the looks and chats that would happen if I didn’t. It took years after being unplugged from the matrix that I realise how much the “one true church” just added onto my trauma and encouraged my selfharming thought and actions

[@randomname4726]

I can't imagine being raised like that. It's oppressive.

[@UtahProspector]

Many people already know In their gut that the church isn’t true before they even ready the first page of the CES letter. Reading that letter for me was more of a confirmation of my gut feelings than anything. Sam Jr is incredibly articulate and has the vocabulary to do literally anything he wants to in this world. Especially authorship/speakership.

[@johnhanson9450]

Little Sam just blows me away with his voice and wisdom. Very good!

[@markh.harris9271]

I wish the best for you Sam, and your family, in your new found freedom; this story is all too typical and so heart-breaking.

[@pr9541]

what an amazing family!

[@fabidepaulo]

OMG!! Just watched this and I am so glad I found this video. Thanks for sharing your experiences! Wish you all the best!

[@SarahRumley]

Relate to Olivia so much!

[@safari79]

I resonate with Sam the Dad so much!! The constant changes are so damaging to the “true” gospel foundation.

[@Katied2017]

Thank you for sharing your story!

[@aligolightly7359]

I grew up in a different church. Have explored many churches. When I was 21, I had a profound dream that I didn’t understand at the time. Many angels were clearing red tape off the outside of a beautiful gray granite building. I converted at 35, and realized God had given me that dream to understand that there is a horrible lot of red tape in the church, and that building was the Salt Lake Temple. So, most of this doesn’t surprise me, and I have never believed the church is wholly true or the only true church upon the earth. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Period. And all who follow Him (whether they realize it or not) have a place in His Father’s house. Those who stay on the straight and narrow path are meant to follow Jesus, not “the church” checkboxes. That goes for any church. Jesus was pretty clear: love God; love neighbor; see you later.

[@kennethd.9436]

I found it invaluable to meet and befriend people who are LGBT.

[@jimmyshrimbe9361]

@@apologiamixer hahahaha nice job showing your lack of intellect.

[@rwheeler4156]

Does Sara have a KZbin or podcast? I'd listen!

[@mormonstories]

Amen. Me too.

[@Ginnilini]

I love that Sam said "The Lord of the Rings is powerful," because that's typically one of my standard examples when I talk to people about the Bible. As someone who grew up as an atheist without any contact with religion in my family and very little contact in my daily life, I have always felt and stated that I would be more likely to believe in LoTR or Harry Potter than the Bible because they are more powerful fictional texts to me. To me, with no religious indoctrination, the Bible is just a dusty old book with fairy tales and there are many more current and impactful books dealing with history or morals if I really wanted to learn about these topics. It's always such an offensive idea to Christians that it's interesting that Sam made that connection/statement.

[@randomname4726]

Exactly. And as someone who loves reading fantasy, there are so many beautiful, powerful and spiritual stories out there.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

These kids are incredibly intelligent.

[@username_undefined]

Great interview! Is it just me or does the dad sound like Toby from The Office?

[@robertramsay5963]

How old were those children in 2020? They seem so mature. Amazing.

[@kennethd.9436]

@36:00 this disclaimer should be announced before every speaker.

[@tiffany_sant]

Love hearing the kids perspective 💜💙

[@kelleemerson9510]

Beautiful family! Sam Jr. is charming and will now have the problem of keeping the girls off him.

[@RB-zh1eq]

When I told my bishop about my doubts, my problems with the BoM, the BoA, all that, his advice was to read the BoM and pray. I had done that and what did I get? Crickets. But I guess I wasn't doing it right, or didn't want it to be true, or just wanted to sin, or never believed it in the first place. My wife will never see her way out, I'm a liar, or been lied to and led astray by satan. We've decided, after three years that I'll do me, and she will do her. It's been a rough road. Her whole family are TBM's, and I've "lost my light". Really sad.

[@kellygreen2038]

That makes me sad to hear especially when it is you that has "found the light" and they who are in darkness!

[@RB-zh1eq]

@@kellygreen2038 My wife applauds ignorance. I love her to death, but her epistemology is horrible. I think all Mormons bask in the glory of ignorance.

[@madamecurious]

R B, my daughter and I left the Jehovah’s Witness religion a year ago. What helped us to finally “wake up” were the Leah Remini Documentary Series about Scientology. The similarities of practices like mind control, information control and shunning of members who leave the cult where mind boggling!!! We learned about Prof. Steven Hassan’s “Bite Model” which is used to identify cults, helped us tremendously with the emotional turmoil that comes after leaving. Maybe you can show the Docu Series to your wife - sometimes seeing the problems in a different religion or cult helps to see the problems in ones own religion.

[@sallymackenzie7953]

Know how you feel read the Bible pray to Heavenly Father of happy ex Mormon born again Christian 😄😄

[@ermannos]

@1:10:42 "when it comes to spiritual matters you're not an authority" being divorced and my kids living with their LDS mother I fear this day will come. I hope it never does. Losing credibility as a father because of religion must be devastating.

[@aligolightly7359]

This is great awareness. However, I will say that evangelizing, done well, is not ethnocentrism. Ethnocentrism involves a level of force and power by man.

[@makay1116]

This is an interesting topic 🧐 I’ve been sitting here for a minute trying to think of a situation where evangelizing isn’t ethnocentrism and the only instance I can think of that comes close is if you belonged to a somewhat secular religion and your only intent on doing missionary work was to preach that all faith is valid. However, even that assumes a certain level of there is a higher power, which is still pushing a singular narrative to people who don’t believe in god. I think that a lot of missionaries from variable faiths have good intentions in their heart but their beliefs were instilled from other believers who told them that their way was the correct way. I’d have to say that missionary work is the manifestation of ethnocentrism. Thanks for brining this up, I enjoyed thinking about both your perspective and the original statement of the speaker. 👍

[@aligolightly7359]

Makay ok. Here’s the dictionary definition of ethnocentrism: Sociology. the belief in the inherent superiority of one's own ethnic group or culture. That’s dealing with an ethnic group. Not religion. First point there. Christianity is not based in a specific ethnic group or culture. Jesus, in fact, made sure of it, by serving Samaritans, Romans, and later sending Paul out to the entire world. Following Christ more often means staying within the ethnic group and being of service to them. With LDS it can get weirdly cultural in the changes, but that’s not the doctrine. This is why I say that when done well, it is not ethnocentrism. It’s a challenge for a young white man from Provo, Utah to go to Ghana and not want some of his old culture. But, that’s his challenge to overcome. His mission is to lead people to Christ. And that will take a change for people. But that change isn’t inherently enthnocentrism.

[@lesliejentzsch1063]

I dont hear a lot of prophecy or revelation coming out of the Mormon church. I do hear a lot of Christian Prophets Prophesying these days. Most are spot on and not part of any organized religion. In day like this, we as a people worldwide need prophecy and revelation to understand and have encouragement. Where are these words from the Lord like as in days of old.

[@pilotandy_com]

In part 2 I was thinking there were certainly some dragons in this family. 1:16:00 ish, I can see that my intuition was accurate.

[@mindeloman]

Sam Sr's comments around 11:00 are a case in point example of Kimball's extremist/puritanical view on sexuality that were disseminated and taught throughout the world. I'm about the same age as Sam Sr and as an X-er, we got slammed hard in the 80's and 90's with the Kimball "miracle of forgiveness" view on sexuality. My bishop had a stack of those books on his office credenza and there is no doubt as to why they were there. I agree with Sam. Even having a thought back then was considered a level of sexual iniquity and sinful. It stands to reason that the church didn't think that one through when they announced that "same gender" attraction is okay as long as you don't act upon it. What????? I thought even a thought was bad? Just too much inconsistency.

[@stevenpolatis]

mindeloman great point. ‘Kimball’s extremist/puritanical view on sexuality’ is spot on. Have you seen the leaked FP memo of the 80’advising TBM’s that even married couples who indulged in oral sex weren’t temple worthy. Growing up in the 70’s and 80’s with SWK the MofF book was everywhere causing guilt, shame and blame which is a powerful tool of CONTROL used by any authoritarian institution and culture. They cut you with the Guilt/Shame knife and offer one the exclusive bandage of embarrassing/awkward confession with the Bishop.🤦🏼‍♂️

[@Kellethorn]

Just a friendly heads up; there's a typo in the title on this one! :)

[@mormonstories]

Thank you!!!

[@kathleenberg9168]

Warren Jeffs and Joseph Smith parallels.

[@sonyalazanya7]

Emotional potluck of hell 🤣

[@mlrobinson228]

Can you get a tithing refund?

[@brenda8010]

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤔

[@jissymendex526]

I have a question... I've seen a couple of the podcasts and I'm sooo surprised at how they can still have a relationship with God after they leave. I have also recently left a religion... but I guess I have accepted eternal damntion (I'm going to hell). I belive in God still, I guess, but I grew up believing that if you truly love God you would obey His commandments. I evnvey people who can "sin" and still belive, like Justin bieber. I wish I could. But I just can't.

[@randomname4726]

Hell is not real. Maybe reading, or listening to audiobooks from a lot of different authors and perspectives could help you. Philosophy, secular buddhism, psychedelic experiences. Even fiction. Explore the ocean of knowledge out there, it's beautiful. You are better off free from dogma. ❤

[@junejune1031]

The concept of an excommunication is insane to me. Like how can “the church” decide your not a member. You can believe whatever you want thus you belong. Bonkers to think someone(s) can decide you’re OUT. That said - good to be out 😆

[@giuseppemariocescutti-fitz5835]

Well thats what is wrong with religion. Do as I say. Guilt. Hatred. Racism. Woman are less than. The to its nit a sin anymore. Hypocrisy! And thats religion. Its ridiculous! More harm has been done in the name of religion than anything else. So they can kick you out when you challenge the church and they dont like it. Its pathetic!they dont like to be challenged. No. Truths all lies!

[@danvan2683]

The mormon church creates athiests by setting up a religious system that isnt historical or in touch with reality, when discovered the conclusion is religion is a sham! There are real mysterys and big questions that should be approached with integrity and objectivity, athiesm avoids the questions and thats not helpful in the same way as getting the spiritual experience from an invented system, the feelings were real but were wasted on the wrong avenue of truth, i hope you guys keep asking difficult questions and dont fall into the my truth vs your truth game, there are absolutes that are compatable with our morals and at least my discovery is the truth points out a brokenness that christianity does answer pretty exclusively. There isnt a perfect church but there are honest ones as well as outright fraudulent ones, i can see this experience has strengthened your family, i hope you see how rare that is, im the only person thats questioned the churches ability to provide answers in my family and maintained any kind of faith.

[@OuttaMyMind911]

I'm one of those atheists that the Mormon Church has produced. I think it mainly stems from the realization that all of the issues that can be found when looking at problems with faith/doctrine/authority/scripture, still apply just as equally in any other belief system. I would just be trading one troubling system for another, so what's the point? I am curious with a statement made: "atheism avoids the questions" What questions do you believe are being avoided?

[@danvan2683]

@@OuttaMyMind911 I would hope you are still a good person in or out of mormonism, but why? Where do our ethics come from and why would we worry about stuff like justice or mercy, I'm remembering alot of themes the book mere christianity brought up that are real interesting to think on. I am religious after all the issues about joseph smith etc. And find similar problems in other churches I've been to but I believe the narrative of Jesus and the gospel message historically.

[@danvan2683]

@@OuttaMyMind911 I'm curious what it was specifically that got you thinking that mormonism might not be what it says it is? Maybe just the initial snowflake that started things along.

[@OuttaMyMind911]

@@danvan2683 I was curious about the questions that you say atheists avoid. Is this it?: "Where do our ethics come from, and why would we worry about stuff like justice or mercy ..." Ethics are set of relationship based standards that people employ in order to forge cooperation with individuals and groups. As a species, we've developed to make use of the benefits of cooperation. These benefits are reinforced, generation after generation and also give rise to the use of similar concepts such as justice and mercy that help reinforce that cooperation. Justice reinforces it through the use of rules and laws that represent the societal view of their ethics and mercy makes use of the human desire to keep human connections, even if ethics may seem to be circumvented by an individual. This is a very basic summary, but as you can see, I have no problem recognizing and understanding concepts such as morality without requiring a supernatural diety. My question to you would be: what reason or evidence do you have for requiring a supernatural source of morality? As to what has me not believe Mormonism/religion? First, I cannot identify any real feeling/impression/prompting that I could say was a "God" trying to communicate with me. And believe me, I've put in the time, prayers, study, and willingness to be open to such prompting. I can already hear the response of: well, God is talking to you, you might not be listening. Sorry, but if there truly is a God, it would know exactly what I need as a willing person, and it hasn't happened. So, being left out of any possible connection, I've had to examine religious claims as they stand, and have found no good reason or evidence to believe the claims that are given.

[@danvan2683]

@@OuttaMyMind911 my analogy I was just imagining on my commute is, it's like I've grown up going to the museum with my parents and seeing works of art with the idea my dad painted these, some were done by my grandpa but mostly my dad and I grow up thinking this, it's problematic to discover as an adult that it's silly to imagine he was responsible, maybe he grew up the same way and that's why he would carry on like this with me, the truth is there are works of art and now I have the duty of learning what the truth is hopefully without hating my dad, I feel pity for mormons today that have the lense put on that everything has to be viewed through, I recognize it's pretty normal to do this and simplify the resolution that the world and reality is seen through, I catch myself still cheating at an issue by using someone else's conclusion maybe someone smarter than me. I'm a christian now but not real active in any community, I see similar problems with every community but the god question for me seems obvious even if I can't measure him or point to him, I agree mostly with your objections, if your still interested at all in biblical studies you would probably find michael heiser real interesting.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

Some cultures are inherently better. But in today's society it's a wrong thing to say. Like, a society with no slavery and cannibalism is not equal to one with both.

[@randomname4726]

True. I also think cultures without religion are better. I feel very lucky to have been raised agnostic in a country with mostly Atheists.

[@RaDHeyward]

The church may not be "true", but it generally provides a framework that produces good families like this.

[@sjpinson]

Happily, my wife and children made it out together. Many families do not. For many, the LDS church is a major factor in divorce, estrangement, suicide, depression, poverty, etc. The LDS church helps some people and is terribly destructive to others.

[@melslatt]

I don't want to speak for the Pinsons, but from my observation, they are a good family because of the people they are, not the organization they were a part of. It also seems that the church often got in their way of growing their relationships because they couldn't freely talk about some topics, etc. This is to say, I don't think any particular church/religion/organization manufactures "good families." I think good people are the reason. And churches are definitely not exclusively full of "good" people. Just as not all "good" people are members of a church.

[@dadsarepeopletoo3785]

When you wake up to the big lie that man made religion is, you go through a dark night of the soul. The very foundation upon which you have based your entire life has been ripped away. It's awful. And yes, you look at others still happy in their illusion, you can become envious of their blissful ignorance.

[@randomname4726]

I've never been religious but it sounds awful. So glad you got out though. ❤

[@dadsarepeopletoo3785]

Evangelicals are coming out of organized religion too!