Why Toyota Is Intentionally "Falling Behind" On EVs

[@baronvonjo1929]

I dont blame Toyota for not going EV crazy atm cause I keep seeing the struggle the Ford, GM, VW, Mercedes, Nissan and the Korean brands have. So many things to learn. I would personally just be investing into R&D and see what happens as lots of those other brands are burning through money for each EV they sell.

[@shadowninja6689]

The problem is it takes 3 years on average to bring a new car to market, and for a vehicle that's an EV instead of ICE like they're used to working with it'll probably be longer than the average turnaround. So yes, Toyota is really risking screwing themselves over by not investing in EV's now. Public sentiment can shift in favor of EV's faster than Toyota can shift their lineups towards EVs. And that's not even counting all the countries with bans on ICE vehicle sales after 2030, which Toyota is basically forfeiting their sales in by not shifting to EV's now.

[@tribalypredisposed]

Sounds like you could be management for one of those companies. Being completely wrong 24-7 is what they do. The problem with your idea here is that it just takes a lot of time to ramp EV production and to learn how to make EVs well, efficiently, and cost effectively. A lot of time is what these companies do not have. Yes, there are so many things to learn, and a lot of those things are ONLY learned by doing, on the factory floor, and not in the R&D labs. I worked at Tesla for some of their learning process. Two companies make a profit selling EVs, Tesla and BYD, and both are massively vertically integrated, making most of the parts of the car themselves. Toyota is pretty vertically integrated so they have that advantage over most legacy automakers, but they still will need an enormous amount of battery cells to transition to EVs, and the mines to supply the factories for those cells do not exist at the moment, and the cell factories also do not exist. I estimate Toyota needs to make five million EVs in 2028 to maintain current market share, and that would mean about 350 gigawatt hours of battery cells, and really you would be lucky, if you knew where to mine for the minerals needed already today, to have permits in hand to start developing the mines in 2028. Tesla already has their materials contracts in hand. BYD does too. As for the battery cell factories, construction needs to start no later than 2025 if you want them fully ramped by 2028. Yeah, all those other companies are struggling, and so is Toyota with their EV, because it is not so easy and they really lack the core competencies for EVs, which is a lot of top level software engineering expertise, and then battery cell and pack and electric motor expertise. Unfortunately they need to learn by manufacturing EVs, but they waited so long that very few want to buy their EVs while they struggle to make a vaguely competitive product. At this point, Toyota is a dead company walking. There is no way they can ramp production and figure out how to make competitive EVs at competitive prices in time. By 2028 almost no one will want Toyota ICE cars, or their hybrids, or their EVs.

[@runnerxa]

You really think the countries can enforce the ICE ban after 2030? I doubt it because the economics are not in favor of the EVs. I bet that the ICE ban will get extended multiple times especially in countries that lack the charging infrastructure.

[@itisabird]

Most of the engineering needs that Tesla and BYD had were learnt by Toyota half a century ago. You forget that they already make some of the best cars in the world. Making it electric is just a minor percentage of the engineering needs of a car. Also, don't forget that they are the top selling brand on hybrids, wich are electric cars with batteries recharged with fossil fuels. For them it is as simple as replacing the small battery with a big one. Regarding software, it depends. The amount of software that Tesla has is staggering, but not really necessary. High end cars are sold to people looking to have the shiniest thing, but the majority of cars are sold to poorer people that don't really need that many things. We've lived all our lives with just an stereo, and for that and the standard management of the vehicule you don't need 1000 engineers.

[@tribalypredisposed]

@@itisabird I worked at Tesla, and no, Toyota has very little of the technology and engineering that Tesla has. An EV is also definitely not super similar to an ICE car. The difference between a car and a horse and carriage is also just the motor and transmission and steering wheel, but only one out of hundreds of carriage companies survived to make cars for long (Studebaker). At Tesla, the software engineers are not just for the UI, they are all over the production lines making the robots work better and faster too, and then of course working on the full self driving and so on. Tesla is a Silicon Valley tech company that primarily makes cars at the moment. Tesla bought Grohman Automated Engineering which was the world leading engineering company for automated production at the time, and the go to company for the German automakers. They combined that knowledge with the huge expertise Tesla has in software engineering and with the SpaceX/Tesla metallurgy expertise, and with getting first pick every year of the best engineers in the world, and that put them way way ahead of Toyota.

[@ariorobotics8583]

Look at direct injection. VW was one of the first to implement it with many issues. Toyota took a more relaxed approach by ironing out the technology and it ended up being reliable.

[@HermanWillems]

WRONG, the Bz4X is NOT ironed out and NOT reliable at all. Just look at the many complaints of users. It's a good car, just a very bad electric car. Many things that should be GOOD at an EV to be a good EV are just BAD at Toyota. Their whole battery heat management is very bad. It can cold and hotgate at the same time. Which is actually very weird. One part of the battery is too cold, and other one is too hot. :) haha

[@ariorobotics8583]

​@@HermanWillems The bz4x is a compliance car

[@HNRichard]

@@HermanWillems US BZ4X has the bad batteries, the rest of us got the good BZ4X which honestly didn't have major problems at all on the EV systems. This also includes the Chinese sedan version they worked with BYD; the BZ3 too. No problems there as far as I know.

[@Hernsama]

@@HermanWillemsactually he was referring to Direct Injection. And if anything the BZ4 is a perfect example. They rushed and looked what happened its on your shit list. They should have waited but luckily they are making the right move.

[@anestacom]

Toyota was successful at catching up because during that time they have strong leadership (Ohno/Shingo and Toyoda that bought into the idea) that relentlessly focus on quality/improvement and bottoms up approach on quality. With all the recalls they have after 2000s, I doubt the culture is still there.

[@thomasroewer5673]

Plugin hybrid is the way to go for most. I have a Prius Prime and use it in EV mode for most of the time when driving to work. But unlike with a full EV, I don't have to worry about running out of charge when taking a longer trip. It's really the best of both worlds.

[@bradhaines3142]

i dont understand the fascination with pure electric. its so unrealistic for so many use cases, but a hybrid is almost entirely beneficial.

[@gigirobinet2879]

@@bradhaines3142it’s a trend for sheeps

[@busetgadapet]

people dont buy ev in this time for long trip, why people still cant get understand this easy single fact?

[@canwelook]

Most people want the convenience of having a car that handles all situations ICE cars currently handle... including long trips (not to mention fast & convenient refills from extensive networks, working as per normal in all weather conditions, street parking without connection to the grid, etc, etc, etc). Why is this so hard for ev cultists to understand?

[@basilyashchenko5389]

Absolutely agree.

[@mollytherealdeal]

Environmentalist I talk to do not like EVs; they prefer walkable communities so people do not even need cars. Also, many young people I know are not buying any carl; they purchase electric bicycles and electric scooters instead. Also, not all people commute to work, some work online which reduces a need for a car and the need to live in the car dependent suburbs.

[@broed731]

agreed, walkable communities' and good trains are the future of green. EVs are just a bullshit tech bro fad that just make your pollution emit at a power plant rather than the backside of a car. Not to mention all the rare metals needed for batteries using slave labor and producing a ton of toxic waste byproduct in Africa.

[@billant2]

Ya good luck biking in a storm, rain, snow, ice, freezing cold, or unbearable heat/humidity. Oh and go grocery shopping with 10 full bags, or take home a large TV from Best Buy, drop off and pick up the kids from school. All that must be really fun on an electric bike. lol Come on man, get real.

[@Vaasref]

​@@billant2 That's kind of the point of walkable communities. You don't need to drop or pick up the kids they have legs too so they can walk from and to school alongside you and when they are old enough they can do it alone instead of forcing you to drive them to their activities or buy a car for a most accident prone teenager. Instead of buying in bulk thinking the price is so much better but forgetting the price of owning an depending on a car, you take quick detours on your walk back home to buy a bag or two of supplies when you need it and save up by not having to own a car to do literally everything outside your house. As for big items, well I'm guessing you are not buying TVs every other week, in any case if you do then you environmental of your car is probably piss all compared to the over consumption. But yeah, when you big a big TV, you have it delivered I mean the thing is going to cost 3 to 4 figures anyway, why risk to break it by doing the transport yourself ? Not needing and thus using any car is always better if possible but when not possible EV have their place and the more car dependent someone is the bigger the environmental improvement is to switch to an EV.

[@billant2]

​@@Vaasref- Ya, that may work in an utopian world but not the real one.

[@Vaasref]

@@billant2 That's no utopia. You can live without a car in most European cities to even modest towns if your work is reachable by transit. The only difference between Europe and the US is that the US bulldozed their downtown to make parking lots and highways and outlawed most development that allowed density. But laws can change even more when they are local zoning and the same way a downtown can be bulldozed, it can also be rebuilt.

[@Martian74]

A PHEV (Plugin Hybrid EV) seems like the best choice at the moment. Short range on battery only and then unlimited long distance driving with gas. An electric vehicle writer getting upset with Toyota is obvious, as it is his bread and butter (soy and lentil?) to write about EVs. I'm definitely considering a hybrid for my wife.

[@tivertontom]

consumer reports says the plug in hybrids are the lowest in reliability, truck evs after that

[@Martian74]

@EnriqueThiele cars don't catch fire often, I have never seen one and are more likely in old cars with rotten fuel lines so EVs are unlikely to be in that category yet, once they are left in a barn and rats chew on their power lines and short out wires, we will see them catching up. EVs just have too short a driving range for me to be even considered. Hybrids have far better range and good fuel economy.

[@yulusleonard985]

Hybrid have problematic designs. There are reason why hybrid are more likely to catch fire, like using passive cooler for batteries and inverter and storing batteries inside compartment instead outside like BEV. Also smaller batteries means faster degradation.

[@williammeek4078]

Hybrids are a fool’s bargain. Resale value of anything with a gas tank will be very low in five years as it will be clear to everyone by that time that pure EV is the endgame.

[@wyw201]

@@williammeek4078 You’ll need to tell this to all the Chinese who are buying all the Chinese hybrids. Largest hybrid market in the world. Will see how residuals play out on year by year basis. Maybe 5 years is too aggressive of a prediction?

[@josephsager9425]

As a big car guy, I was really excited for EV's when it was bleeding edge tech, but my concerns have been growing for years now about cost. I think if EV's are adopted too quickly, they'll become something only the rich can afford. After I heard about Toyota's strategy, the more I think about it, the more I'm like, "yes - Hybrids are a necessary gap *if* America wants to keep it's car-centric nature." That said, I believe things that would reduce our car dependency, like a massive investment in mass transit and laws that mandate employers offer remote work are the way forward. Because even an EV is just another car, and cars are a hugely inefficient way of moving people around. As a fan of cars, I want to keep cars alive as something you drive for fun if you enjoy that hobby, not something everyone needs to drive to get anywhere, even if they hate driving.

[@Sacto1654]

I'm not sure if mandatory remote work is a completely good idea. There's always fear some hacker could break the encryption used by the Cisco AnyConnect VPN software for remote work (AnyConnect is a very popular connection sofware for remote workers) and cause no end of havoc, which could quickly end the age of remote work in many cases.

[@unconventionalideas5683]

The problem is that a huge and growing percentage of Americans don’t even have a license to drive, so America keeping its car centric culture is likely to fall away anyway, because if very few know how to drive and nobody is interested in Autonomous Cars, well, how can cars logically be a major part of transportation into the future?

[@L8nitedave]

The problem isn't so much EV vs hybrid as much as it is new car demand and the evolution curve on both. The hard truth is the EV evolution curve is closer to sustainable long term than ICE cars. But hitting the sweet spot of infrastructure when consumers learn how to use EVs becomes the target. Selling more long lasting ICE cars makes that target demographic longer and easier to hit for them while everyone else is committed to expensive EVs.

[@billant2]

It's definitely only for those who own a home and can do overnight charging in their warm garage. Most of those living in apartments and condos don't have overnight charging available. So yes, at the current higher prices EV's are definitely for the well off folks.

[@SimonEllwood]

​@@billant2You do not need a garage. An off-street parking spot and a Level II charger and you are good to go.

[@zeroreality]

You didn't answer the question in the title of the video! "Why" is Toyota falling behind? You went into how they are not investing in EVs at the same rate as other companies, but not "why" they aren't doing that. Your video should be titled "How come Toyota is intentionally falling behind on EVs".

[@nami1540]

Do you know of DeArrow? It is a brobser plugin that replaces catchy titles and thumbnails of YT videos by the one the community voted on. Thogether with Sponsotblock (skipping sponsored video segments) it is absolutely great. I will upload your suggestion.

[@chadhaire1711]

How about another title " EV's SUCK"

[@Shambolicoholic]

5:52

[@philipbrown9006]

Other companies are losing billions throwing good money after bad. Toyota decided not to.

[@tjjavier]

He did answer it. As the user above said, 5:52

[@jkid4855]

it's really simple. They are delaying EV until they can control the battery tech that made sense to them. Once their solid state battery is up to par, they'll unlease their EVs. They're just not idiots who follow twitter trends.

[@HVM_fi]

Yeah, Toyota's solid state tech is only 3-5 years from production! -And had been like that last 20 years...

[@carlosandleon]

Also EVa are impractical for most people

[@HVM_fi]

@@carlosandleon Lol, nope, only people who tow their boat 600km in one go.

[@carlosandleon]

@@HVM_fi Im not driving 80 km to the next charging port bro

[@jkid4855]

@@HVM_fi and if they can't get it right, they will keep making excuses why EV sucks. Toyota can afford to wait.

[@ccarniver]

Toyota's HSD is the envy of the industry, it'd be foolish for them to throw away this card just because others had to

[@toyotaprius79]

Ach! Don't you be foolish! The HSD has been squandered for two decades now. It's completely adaptable for plugin batteries but Toyota resisted and compromised it every step of the way And you omitted how the HSD is an owned patent which makes hybrids more expensive for consumers, especially if Ford payes Toyota dues, or if Mitsubishi has to spend billions on it's own

[@ccarniver]

@@toyotaprius79 the patent is key, HSD is just superior to any other implementations of hybrid powertrain, both in terms of power delivery and simplicity

[@zomgneedaname]

The Risk is being kodak'd. Y'all gotta check out the Byd DM-i powertrain, goes entirely around the HSD patent lock

[@jensenraylight8011]

@@zomgneedaname what so special about EV anyway, it gets you from point A to B, the difference is only the Fuel. This is a Car not a Smartphone, and Toyota Can produce EV, don't act as if they're still at stone age, couldn't figure out how EV Works. While Kodak, literally just straight up didn't want to sell their new Technological marvel, Toyota, ford, Porsche, all of them have EV lineups, nothing special they're the first to realize that people Want hybrid not EV, so when the Age of EV come, why would they become the last to Pivot? They're ahead in knowing the market demand. Unlike Tesla that had the nerve after selling Less car, they shamelessly pump their stock so obviously to be way bigger than Toyota.

[@AlessandroLosi]

I'm from Italy, and here the Toyota mindset is working a lot. We don't have a lot of charging stations and most of the people does not want to give up on the convienience of the gas engine. In fact the Toyota Yaris Hybrid (which i don't think exists in the USA) is one of the most sold cars here, and I would say that is one of the most reasonable hybrid to buy (small, relatively cheap, low fuel consumption, great advantages like free entry in city centers)

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

Yaris is super expensive. It's the most expensive B segment car only surpassed by the Audi A1.

[@GethinColes]

I live in rural Australia. Ideal car for here is a small battery hybrid. Battery for local runs, hybrid or range extender for longer. I dont think anyone is making this, and its puzzling. A range extender that can maintain charge at 80kmh would be fine, because anywhere that you can go faster has charging stations available

[@genericreference6969]

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV but it isnt the smallest of vehicles

[@GethinColes]

@@genericreference6969 I'll check it out!

[@GethinColes]

@@genericreference6969 I see it's drivetrain is still directly connected to the wheels, I wonder if you dropped all that weight and had a petrol-electric drivetrain how the weight savings offset the conversion losses.

[@lapin46]

@@GethinColes the engine is actually coupled with a clutch to the drive train. Below some 60-70 km/h, faster for newer models, the engine drives a generator with no direct connection the wheels itself. The generated electricity is used to drive the car. Above a certain speed, the engine is coupled to the wheels with a clutch directly driving the wheels, but also driving the generator. This way power can be provided to the electrically driven rear axle as well. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJ_Xm5abhZKLhqcsi=8_QHwKMFkxuFxlC4

[@by010]

Chevy volt or smh?

[@someguy2135]

No mention of choosing both in one? Toyota's Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime plug-in hybrids! No range anxiety. Enough EV range for most people for driving around town during the day and then charging overnight. No charging hassles on long trips, since you can then just pretend that you just have a regular hybrid or ICE car and gas up as needed.

[@AmericanRoads]

I live in an apartment and have no capability of charging at home. If I drive an EV, my only option is to charge at charging stations, and they are getting just as expensive as refueling a gasoline car. For people like me, hybrids are actually more economical to run than EVs. I am glad for the variety of RELIABLE hybrids that Toyota is currently offering. I currently own a 2022 Corolla LE hybrid and a 2023 RAV4 XSE hybrid.

[@tw8464]

Exactly. The electric stations they keep getting more expensive because the corporations are charging more and more of a hefty premium to use their stations because they know people in apartments are now their hostages and they're monopolizing because a lot of the people have no option to charge at home so they can just keep doubling the price then forcing people back to ice destroying their own cash cow. But the "trickle down" always drains their golden goose they have all the wealth in society to just go from goose to goose while everyone else pays for each monopoly after another

[@paulo123-]

For you a hybrid is the perfect choice.

[@TTOS69]

I would much rather have a hybrid than a fully electric car any day.

[@yggdrasil9039]

Toyota is not betting on hybrids. Toyota is betting on ICE, predominantly. Only 30% of its sales are hybrid. Toyota is really still an ICE manufacturer. For instance, the waiting list for the Rav4 hybrid in Australia is currently 2 years. They are just not interested in selling hybrids, or making them in any significant number.

[@zxb995511]

They make million of them, they are just in extremely high demand. Toyota is interested in selling anything that could make them money.

[@sartonnis]

I don't see how someone could say Toyota isn't interested in or betting on hybrids when more and more of their models are either now hybrid-only or have hybrid options. The next gen Camry is exclusively hybrid, alongside the Sienna and previously the Venza (which itself is being replaced with the Crown Signia, another hybrid exclusive). The entire upcoming Crown series is either hybrid or PHEV only. Corolla has a hybrid model. The new Land Cruiser is hybrid-only. Hell, even their pickup trucks all have hybrid powertrains as of this year. Odds are the next gen Corolla and RAV4 are gonna follow the Camry and become hybrid only as well.

[@yggdrasil9039]

@@sartonnis I hope so. I think Toyota hybrids are great. But in Australia there is a 2 year waiting list for some models (Rav4 and Camry) and they won't bring PHEVs here under the lame excuse that Australians don't like plugging things in. If you go to a Toyota dealership here they will fall over backwards trying to sell you a pure ICE rather than a HEV.

[@nadie8093]

30% out of 10 million is huge.

[@yo2trader539]

Firstly, Toyota is the company that developed hybrids in the 1990s. It's took 10 years for Toyota to make money on hybrids, but they continued to sell money-losing cars in Japan because they strongly believed in the hybrid technology. So it's not that Toyota or dealerships don't want to sell hybrids. They simply couldn't manufacture enough of them to meet the high global demand. In case you don't know, there were severe supply constraints during the pandemic, especially with semiconductors. Automakers had to cut back due to component production due to shortages, but media reports say that component supply situation has stabilized by end of 2023.

[@joshuadoliveiro]

can I also say that the current state of EVs are not designed for the reduction of environmental impact, they are designed to meet regulations and sales targets. Toyota is not evil, they're just realistic about what the market is ready for and when.

[@utharaptortrex]

I recently attended a lecture with a high level Toyota engineer and he asked the students to do a simple thought experiment. On averege a Toyota hybrid will be 15% to 50% more efficient than an equivalent ICE car. Use de 15% for a conservative estimate. Now consider that most Toyota hybrids only use a 1.5kWh battery (non plug ins). An averege EV will have a battery of about 45kWh. So with that battery you could make 30 Toyota hybrids. So what would be more effective in reducing fuel consumption and emissions? To reduce the fuel used by 30 cars in 15% or to remove one ICE car from the road? If you do the math you'll find that 15% reduction in 30 cars is the equivalent of removing 4.5 ICE cars from the road. In other words, it's at least 4.5 times more efficient that making a single EV.

[@johanvts]

It's a false dichotomy. There's plenty of lithium, and actually also alternatives like natrium or sodium batteries. Just more excuses to keep milking their cash cow. We need to get to 0 emissions and a 15% reduction just isn't going to get us there.

[@pine111]

That just sounds like the same PR jargon Toyota spits out all the time to try and rationalize how horribly behind on EVs they are. It makes tons of assumptions in favor of Toyota, the assumption that the person coming from an ICE vehicle isn’t coming from a particularly efficient one or even just another hybrid, also waiving the fact that 30 hybrids would need significantly more materials and parts to build overall than just one EV, like engines for 30 cars (because they’re hybrids), etc., it also ignores the simple fact that hybrids still produce a significant amount of direct emissions, and 30 of them would be produced a pretty large amount of direct emissions, full EVs don’t do that, and even if you account for indirect emissions, full EVs are significantly more eco friendly than hybrids when used regularly like any other car.

[@oatlegOnYt]

That excuse is based in the false argument that lithium is lacking and/or very pollutant. For the scarce argument, I will say that most people doesn't understand how reserves work. Reserves is not the quantity of raw material that exists underground because we don't know how much is that. Reserves is a concept around known or estimated deposits that we can exploit under certain extraction technologies. So if your estimations are wrong, or the extraction technologies get better, reserves can go up. And they did. If you search for the numbers, lithium reserves are growing despite we extract them faster than ever. So the real quantity we can exploit at the end of EV adoption is unknown. But it's most probable we will be able to electrify as much as we want. A clue of that is lithium in sea water. The sea water reserves are some orders of magnitude greater than land deposits and more than enough to electrify everything. It's just sea lithium is considered too expensive to be massive adopted. But if a new extraction technology is invented that allows to reduce that cost, then it won't be any problem. Besides that, BEV doesn't need to be fixed in lithium. We are seeing now the upcoming of sodium-ion technology. Now with lower density than lithium, although more than enough for some purposes. It will probably dominate stationary storage in a decade if lithium production doesn't raise fast enough. About the second, it uses the fallacy of decontextualization. While it's pollutant, as any mining, the quantity needs to build a EV battery is a minuscule quantity in comparison with the thousands of litters of fossil fuels (that required even greater quantities of oil in the process to create that fuel). While is more pollutant per unit of material, it's a lot less overall. Besides, batteries are starting to being recycled, and recycled lithium has a lot less environmental impact, so in the end, the impact gets lower and lower across time. Not something that ICE cars will ever do.

[@laserdrill2023]

The best way to reduce emissions is less car on the road. Such as Uber, car share, and public transportation.

[@robertsheperd502]

The battery argument is a false premise. CATL is operating at 50% of capacity.

[@volkhen0]

Honestly I thought it was a conspiracy theory that oil companies blocked development of electric cars. Yet it seems it was true. This time about NiMH batteries. I’ve heard similar story about Li-Ion batteries.

[@h2835]

It does not matter even if they did block the development of EV-s. In the end the major limiting factor is the power grid. Example: Ukraine now has the option of exporting up to 550 MW of electric energy into the EU. A single TESLA supercharger cable uses 150 kW. So if we use all this electricity to charge electric cars we can charge around 3600 at the same time. As a ballpark figure: to use EV-s you need to have a 96 spot charging station for every 8 pump petrol station. That 96 spot charging station will use up 14.4 MW at full output. A nuclear power plant is capable of delivering around 2000 MW at optimum performance. How many petrol stations do you have in your country? How much power is needed to swap those out for charging stations? How many Nuclear power plants do you need to have enough power for all of these? Solar and Wind is NOT an option here, as you need this power even at night when there is no wind. So you could build batteries, but it is cost prohibitive. Oh, and you also need connection points from these power plants to the grid. So more high voltage power lines all across the country...

[@aabb55777]

Oil companies didn't. See my comment on the patent shown at 2:35.

[@nami1540]

@@h2835 Well it will need to get expanded and it is within the realms of our possibilites. You are just suggesting not to try it because it has not been of priority in your country. Look at Denmark, for example. Thei have no struggle with the grid even though they heavily bet on EVs and they use and export mostly wind power. In Germany it will still take a few decades but it is a finite investment. Maybe also think about the extensive oil and gas infrastructure. It was established historically but it is also quite an engineering effort. We have natural gas pipes in all streets and refineries and tanks for gasoline spread all around the country.

[@steffengustavsen9678]

@@h2835 Not true. Here in Norway electricity consumption will only increase 6% if everyone get a Tesla model s. The same amount we would save if every house switched to heat pumps.

[@crusherven]

I doubt that's really a major issue. I understand patents generally last 20 years, so the patent would have expired 4 years ago.

[@elliot3751]

As someone who just bought a new car. I had the options of looking for An EV, Hybrid or Regular ICE car. I did so much research I did a lot of comparing and contrasting. I didn’t budget myself too strictly but I wanted a car at or below $35,000. I would’ve LOVED an EV but the only ones under that price (at the time) were the Nissan Leaf and Chevrolet Bolt, both which did not meet my standards or expectations. I got a chance to test drive both and hated it. I also looked at a used Model 3, test drove it and was surprised and loved it! It was around my $35,000 budget. But insurance cost for them was too high, even with the Tesla Insurance. As well I did the cost for maintenance and while I would spend anything on oil changes, the cost of replacing tires literally just cost the same as oil changes throughout the years because I didn’t know EV tires were very expensive. As well I drive a lot in my field of work and range for EVs does not compare to ICE cars as well I can’t afford to stay at a charging station for 30 mins while working. So I went for Hybrids. It was honestly very shocking how much I liked them. Most I saw were within my budget and the range was very good! No need for Charging (I didn’t get a PHEV) and the maintenance was cheap since I usually do my own maintenance. I love an EV but it’s not viable for everyone yet. Hopefully one day I can own one and not worry about any of my complaints but for now, I think Hybirds and ICE are the way to go for me.

[@coleeto2]

You were making sense up until tires. Cost of ownership for an EV has been lower for years now. Depending where you live hybrids make a great option. If Toyota actually cared about the environment they would be making more PHEV, there is currently a 2 year waiting list to get one, so they can’t blame a lack of demand

[@otus_]

around here (Africa, Southern Africa, Botswana), Toyota leads sales with an all petrol/diesel lineup, we simply dont have enought electricty to charge our phones and cars., probably the same case for all of the developing world, not enough electricity and I am talking about the coal made stuff, not that new solar green clean eletricity.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

I bet you have sun in Botswana. No need to import petrol.

[@captaindak5119]

​@@jamesvandamme7786solar power is far less reliable than fossil fuels for electricity generation and solar power plants take up a lot of space compared to a fossil fuel based power plant of similar electricity generating capacity. Solar panels are OK for putting on a house but not for powering an entire country, especially manufacturing sector

[@planefan082]

​@@jamesvandamme7786While long term it would save incredible amounts of money for developing countries to leapfrog to clean grids, the problem is they usually don't have enough money for the upfront infrastructure costs. Same reason a lot of people aren't buying an EV and switching to renewables right away elsewhere. It's expensive to be poor.

[@dulio12385]

Toyota is playing it smart; Let everyone take all the brand damage of introducing and working out the kinks of new tech while taking notes, then step in with a perfect design and an intact reputation.

[@bobby350z]

I hope you are right. But by then most people who want to move to EVs will have already done by buying Teslas and other EVs.

[@gibbonsdp]

You can't just "step into" EV technology, as every other traditional car maker is discovering.

[@bobby350z]

@@gibbonsdp - Mainly due to no charging network. And every mfg is trying to charge quite a bit more money for an EV car/truck.

[@dark6c159]

its no like toyota was right. just everyone else went crazy over EVs. unreasonable expectation have to face the reality sooner or later .

[@christophers707]

​@@bobby350z EV growth is slowing Toyota made the logical decision plus none of the EV's compare to hybrids when it comes to reliability. When Toyota releases an EV lots of people will buy because they trust the brand which other car companies wish they had.

[@davemccarthy7366]

EV's aren't selling now, but Toyota is up 16% YOY. Who got it right?

[@ourkaravan]

And the best selling car in the world? Tesla Model Y

[@peenoice5176]

​@@ourkaravanand everyone else fails.

[@benmarley3086]

⁠@@ourkaravan pretty sure it’s still the Corolla

[@ShaunRF]

A little surprised you made no mention of Toyota's hydrogen fuel cell investments, which they are desperately clinging to due to their enormous sunk costs in the doomed technology.

[@rkan2]

Waiting for the day when a hydrogen fuel cell doesn't require palladium, doesn't cost the car's msrp's worth to replace and of course when hydrogen production is 90% efficient 😂

[@yo2trader539]

Hydrogen-fueled buses using Toyota technology is already running in Japan for years. Now, hydrogen-fueled trains with Toyota technology are being tested by JR East. The project name is "Hybari."

[@evancombs5159]

Hydrogen fuel cells make sense, just not for cars. Their investment will pay off, just you won't notice it as a consumer because you won't be using it directly.

[@Roggor]

​@@evancombs5159 Exactly. The physics, rightly derided for years, don't work at a small scale. Larger vehicles like buses and trains have some application for this technology.

[@planefan082]

​@@RoggorI'd dare say trains don't make sense for them when electrifying the route is so much cheaper (usually). I think hydrogen will find greater use replacing marine fuel oil and potentially in medium haul aviation.

[@jamesodell3064]

Toyota also has the Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime. I am considering the Prius Prime when I replace my Camry. I would drive all electric over 95% of the time with the 44 mile all electric range. Charge in the garage with 120V saving the cost of the special charger. When I want to travel I would not have to worry about finding a charging station. I would expect over time as batteries get better and hopefully cheaper the all electric range will increase.

[@someguy2135]

I mentioned them in a comment before I saw yours. This looks like you get the best of both worlds. They get about 40 miles of range in the EV mode after an overnight charge. Availablilty for both models means a long wait time to buy one. The only advantage of a pure EV would be the fact that they do not need oil changes, and have less to go wrong. Toyota has such a great track record for reliability, that that wouldn't worry me, though.

[@christophers707]

just get a plain hybrid look up plugin reliability its awful might as well get an ev

[@lukeclifton4392]

@@someguy2135”You can’t have your cake and eat it too!”… that’s seems to be the case with PHEV too! Yes you can run EV mode all day and every day for normal commutes, it’s fine!! On the other hand the extra weight of both a medium sized battery, an engine and the projected lifespan of the battery (because it’s being used like an EV, a lot of cycles) ends up being no more efficient than a normal hybrid. You have to think of Hybrid battery chemistry like a capacitor (it’s a different chemistry to EV batteries). Hybrid batteries are smaller, less weight=more efficient and last longer. The Hybrid battery’s efficient sizing is just adequate enough to store “lost” energy (not just from braking) and deliver it back to the “an appropriately sized” power train under situations where the engine is least efficient. PHEV vehicles on the other hand use undersized engines and RELY on the Hybrid side to boost the engines performance… so why have the weight of the engine there in the first place??

[@jamesodell3064]

Good point. It will be four or five years before I need a new car. Perhaps by then Toyota will have worked out the bugs. I will check their reliability the and make my decision. @@christophers707

[@linusa2996]

Just get a straight hybrid Prius. it's cheaper and just as reliable or more so.

[@adam-k]

Pioneers rarely last. The Wright Company is not the largest airplane manufacturer today just because they invented airplanes. Waiting until the product gets popular, the quirks and legislations ironed out, the world is saturated with charging stations etc might be the right move.

[@pyromcr]

EV's aren't selling and prices are being slashed across the board. Manufactures are losing their asses on them. Meanwhile every Toyota model is flying off the lots above MSRP and have months long waiting lists. But yeah for sure it's Toyota that's gotten it wrong.

[@ferfromla]

It looks to me like Toyota is going to continue to make truckloads of money by managing the transition from ICE cars to EVs. They know that EVs are the future, but as we are not there yet they can put off the shift for later. Given the high price of EVs in the US, Toyota can offer cars that people love and know without anxiety about range and cost. Since there are few really affordable EVs, hybrids become an easy choice. Because Toyota has considerable experience with hybrids, they are no stranger to electric vehicles, and when the market is right for them they should be able to deliver a quality vehicle at a good price. In the meantime, Tesla will continue to dominate the higher end of the EV market and continue to grab market share from the big three in the US. Nonetheless, there remains a real opportunity to sell more affordable EVs and that is where Toyota could profit handsomely. If they can time it right, offering affordable electrics would be a great strategy. As the charging infrastructure improves and battery prices decrease, EVs will be viable for the broader car-buying public. For the time being it does not appear that Tesla or the Chinese will be a factor at the low end and that is where Toyota can make its mark. If Toyota can't do it someone else will rise to the opportunity and fill that gap.

[@wyw201]

@EnriqueThiele Are you predicting this year, ICE car sales will be 50% globally?

[@binskee677]

@EnriqueThiele i think you are massivly underestimating Toyota. They are still the most profitable and biggest car company with the best reliability by far, and Toyota is after Tesla the most valuable car brand in the world. Toyota has a huge soft power around the world, even if they are late to the party, just the Toyota logo on a car will sell them. It's not just EV's, in general Toyotas and Lexus are always a step behind their competition when it comes to new tech and features but still they are selling a lot of car, even in Europe where the Germans dominate and you also have french cars in the mix. Even Lexus is outselling their German competition in the US and many other markets. Once battery technology improves, they will jump in and people will buy it. If they can pull off the solid state batteries it's game over anyway for low cost ev's as Toyotas will dominte the market. Toyota won't be the giant they are now in the future anyway, they will loose market share to the chinese no matter how much and how early they are going to invest into EV's. The good thing about EV's are that the tech is very scalable, if you develope one drivetrain, you can scale it to any model in your whole range. Toyota is the most innovative company in the world when it comes to production facilities, even Porsche uses TPS, it won't be much of a struggle to change them as Toyota doesn't produce on assembly lines rather they produce within a Kanban system, making an EV wont be much different for them than maken a new model, especially due to their hybrid expertise they already have decades of knowledge with battery tech and electric engines, that just has to be scaled up.

[@Aka.Aka.]

Chinese EVs will win tbh like it's literally a fact

[@HermanWillems]

Their EV's are also UTTERLY shit. Bz4X is total shit. Its a good car, just a bad EV.

[@wyw201]

@@Aka.Aka. Facts are stats driven

[@UrbanNaturalist]

Toyota is right, also their hybrids are way ahead of the others. The Prius transmission is an ECVT, without a belt to wear out. It has an ingenious way of using a planetary gear set and electric motors to remove pumps and clutches from the automatic transmission.

[@UrbanNaturalist]

@EnriqueThiele sure, but for most of the country, they only work as second cars. I’ve loved the idea of electric cars for decades, but I’m not in the place to own an electric car as an extra vehicle. It would not fit our driving needs. The charging infrastructure is not there yet and some more environmentally friendly battery tech will be coming soon that will allow the masses to get on board. For now, we’ll let you pay more early on to fund the improvement of those issues. I’ll keep my old Toyotas running until the tech improves.✌️

[@kalmmonke5037]

although there is no evidence for humans causing climate change beyond natural climate change, there is evidence and some very apparently suspicious artificial chemical stuff, which is now known to be definitely harmful, such as dirtier forms of combustion, tire wear dust(see xenoestrogens, microplastics, etc) , wiper fluid etc. best way to use non fully recyalable limited battery supply (which is almost always never recycled ) is to have small combustion charging battery and electric assisted turbo in lightweight areo car. weight makes it less crash safe for everyone involved in crash, worsens road wear damage and tire wear , exponentially, and makes preserving momentum around turns less possible to minimize degradation of battery from regenerative braking , then powering up again after regenerating the energy less efficiently than how it would be in preserving momentum around a turn. . ev are heavy because high weight per energy , you arnt using all that energy at a moment of driving but you are carrying all thr weight. instant torque makes it worse. @EnriqueThiele having the sedan jump up to have its structurally strong parts lower in the car, hit the strong parts of other car before crash, would also have higher safety with all the supremacy in balanced values of sedans. a lotus style lightweight agile momentum preservaton sporty driving can be integrated into encouraging effceint low emission driivng to make driving fun and safer, too recent honda insight is closest we got to this ideal , but they intentionally didnt do their best becayse they were afraid people wouldnt buy their car as much if they made a aesthetically weird shape like prius , they wanted to get people whos buy prius if only it didnt look weird . they knew almost every who says they care about emissions actually do not care(mostly because low trust in "the science" and its funding), and they are already far less than 5 percent of all customers , so they comprimised. noone praises honda, they praise tesla for making a gossip attracting toy r

[@UrbanNaturalist]

@@kalmmonke5037 Honda is years behind Toyota when it comes to hybrids. Ahead of Toyota in EV market though.

[@kalmmonke5037]

for example honda didnt make 2017 insight areodynamic because they were appealin gto people who wouldve brought prius it prius didnt look weird. its also a wider car. if they tried to make it more effceintt they probably could have @@UrbanNaturalist

[@jimfarmer7811]

The Toyota hybrid system is elegant in its simplicity. I have the same system in my Ford Maverick. It eliminates the complex automatic transmission as well as the starter, alternator, serpentine belt, and turbocharger. The naturally aspirated engine doesn't work nearly as hard as a turbocharged engine.

[@deivclayton]

Plug-in hybrids are a great in-between step. Pure EV's still have the major disadvantage of needing longer times to charge while traveling on road trips.

[@hojnikb]

Yeah, they are great at nothing and terrible at many things. There's a reason why inbetween steps in life in general don't work out. It's really just a way to manufacturers to skir arount the fleet emissions.

[@lcwpg]

Hybrid is sorta like a solution to high fuel prices but to maintain an engine plus a battery that will degrade how is this the solution for now. I rather have a engine or a ev not a hybrid.

[@billant2]

The biggest disadvantage is that they cost almost double than regular cars. I don't care if it runs on gas, water, or cow fart, just make them cheaper than current gas cars. All I need is something to get me from point A to B cheaply and refuel quickly, don't need any of the self driving camera whistles and bells. And why not? Electric motors and the rest of the mechanics is much less complicated than gas cars. They are literally charging more for something less convenient to refuel especially for those who don't live in house with overnight charging. smh

[@twosteptothatyo]

Teslas can charge from 0% to 80% in ~20 minutes at a Supercharger. Same amount of time it takes to wait in line at Costco to fuel up.

[@billant2]

​@@twosteptothatyo- I find it silly how they always say charging an EV from 20 to 80% takes 20 minutes. But charging it to 100% takes 45 minutes. I don't know about you, but always I refuel my car to 100% in under 5 minutes, 80% would take about 3 minutes. lol

[@perroaventura]

It seems to me that Toyota is playing a double game: trying to delay the full electrification of mobility and, at the same time, conveying the message that they are technological leaders and that they are very concerned about the environment. They want to take advantage of either of the two options that settle in the future.

[@prakhargupta2081]

EVs aren't that green and good for environment.

[@getthecats]

@perroaventura you are making the assumption in your argument that to be technological leaders they must be promoting ev's with full backing. Highly subjective, and I'd say that you are wrong. As stated in the video there's not enough chargers yet and MOST customers don't want an EV. So Toyota are making hybrids available to the MOST people and are substituting full ICE cars with hybrids. Toyota is being very utilitarian. It's way easier to convert people from full ICE to hybrid and they can do it in way higher numbers than converting people from full ICE to ev

[@FrVitoBe]

They playing games only for there own profit and nothing else

[@getthecats]

@@FrVitoBe they're a business not a charity. I disagree because of the wide range of hybrids they're making

[@Kni0002]

Toyota makes cars you can fix or a small business mechanic can fix. Teslas are impossible to fix. so much for being green, it’s being wasteful.

[@ruzzelladrian907]

Maybe Toyota is waiting for CATL’s high density batteries. CATL’s latest battery technology can give a car a range of 800km, (500 miles). It was recently put into the Xiaomi SU7. Though I suspect Toyota is still holding off until they’re sure about the reliability of the batteries.

[@TheAtqthe30th]

Yeah I'm curious with solid state batteries. To be honest I'd trade some range for longer lifespan of the batteries and less likely to burst into flames if damaged.

[@kornkernel2232]

Considering they care about reliability reputation, they are very likely waiting for really reliable battery tech that last and has better range. Now we have that, Toyota will wait and do its own research and see if this is a time.

[@tails300]

They’re building their own battery plant in the US as joint venture with Panasonic I don’t think they’ll be using very CATL packs in their cars.

[@rkan2]

No automaker is going to succeed without their own battery and cell production, especially if they are just going to be buying from the Chinese. Chinese automakers will always be undercutting their price. That is why BYD and Tesla are in the lead. Tesla uses batteries from basically everyone.. Cells they make themselves with license from LG, LG manufactured cells, CATL cells, BYD batteries. Also Samsung is on the horizon. They are only missing some of the more obscure and lower production cells made in Europe.

[@KaNairo25]

​@@kornkernel2232This is how Toyota will fall. If you wait for the market to mature without being at the forefront of R&D, building up the ev supply chain, You won't have skin in the game for ev tech. Therefore the time is now...

[@alexvonburen]

The reason Americans aren’t buying EV’s is because their fuel is so cheap compared to the rest of the world. Yes the other factors, charging infrastructure and price of the car play into that as well but the fuel cost is the main reason. I hired a BMW X3 in Florida a few months ago and worked out it would cost more than double to fuel up in the UK then what it did in America. So in the US there really is no incentive to buy an EV.

[@michaelqu]

Toyota understands most don't want or can't afford an EV and that the charging infrastructure is inadequate

[@totalstrangerthing7419]

Tell that to Chinese who sell their cars for around 10K$. That's right 10000$. Not 1 Million, not 100 thousand but 10 thousand. And monthly cost of recharging the around 100$ MONTHLY.

[@mostlyguesses8385]

​@@totalstrangerthing7419... The cost of gasoline is around only $100 monthly in US. Gasoline is darn cheap, EV promoters act like it's $10,000.... that's the problem, gas is cheap. """""When we divide 2015's consumption of 140.43 billion gallons across those roughly 214 million licensed drivers, it adds up to 656 gallons per driver. At an average price of $2.15 per gallon last year, the average American forked about $1,400 just to fill up their tank."""""

[@totalstrangerthing7419]

@@mostlyguesses8385 that's in us. I m from Bosnia. Here thx to war in Ukraine U started, cost of gas 2x than US, give or take where u live. My brother bought EV last year & he is so pleased that he said he'll never go back to gas. Now my father is thinking to also buy one.

[@yulusleonard985]

@@mostlyguesses8385 Thats the privilege living in US where your government have no problem bombing other nations for oil just to keep you happy. People who scream "EV are scam" almost all of them are American.

[@babananabanana9163]

​@@totalstrangerthing7419 But Bosnia is pretty small ? No ? I dont know your country really well, so i just assuming its size from how it looks at google. Sure Wuling BYD etc are pumping cheap EV, But the problem is.... is it sustainable ? Those cheapo EV are taking the resources that are rare and making it expendable commodity. And you know that raw material are finite. Of course we can always recycle those battery material, however.... those recycle mineral gonna degrade and arent gonna be comparable to a freshly mined mineral. And that is the dilema of EV. It looks good on short term, it sounds promising, and it looks like a cheaper alternative. but it is SHIT !

[@jerom_jomon]

Toyota was never the leader of innovation. So it makes sense to take it slow but reliable approach. That reliability reputation is worth a lot to upkeep

[@HermanWillems]

Reliable? 80 People in USA got killed by very very bad quality software in their ECU's and also other parts of the car failing because of that. Even NASA had to get the code from Toyota and concluded it's super shit code.

[@elisee9935]

When they made the Prius, that was leading in innovation. The difference however between Toyota Innovation and other brands' innovation is that Toyota will only release things that are ready for mass consumption. If they can't sell it everywhere in the world, they won't make it. They can't sell electric cars in Africa or Australia, so they're holding off until their battery technology is ready.

[@HermanWillems]

@elisee9935 Tesla is ready for mass production. Tesla Model Y is best selling car in the world.

[@elisee9935]

@@HermanWillems being ready for mass production is different from being ready for mass consumption/adoptation. All big carmakers can mass produce EV's if they want to, but if not all people can buy them, it 's not ready for mass adoptation.

[@joaquimbarbosa896]

Their evs are not reliable, and they are not developing any super amszing tech, instead they are far behind Its impressive that they've been saying the same bs for years and people still buy it

[@tokyo-wt7fq]

Note that Japan has many natural hazard like earthquake and heavy snow. EV would be useless in crisis situation

[@crimsonlightbinder]

and you can say that about many places which makes EVs even more stupid

[@Jake-rs9nq]

An earthquake that takes the grid offline would almost certainly destroy gasoline pipelines as well. Also, you need electricity to pump gas.

[@aakankinskywalker384]

@@Jake-rs9nq no refuelling in emergency situations can be done without electricity.

[@Jake-rs9nq]

@@aakankinskywalker384 How? You can use a generator, but you still need electricity. The only alternative is to have a manual pump and crank it, but I haven't seen one of those this century.

[@staycgirlsitsgoingdown2]

That’s fully not true, in emergencies EVs literally have the capability to act as gigantic batteries to power buildings. There are stories of people in Texas and Florida where after a hurricane, they’ve got their EV powering their house while everyone else on the block sits in the dark with their gas cars. Not to mention… in a blackout, gas stations can’t pump gas

[@journeysend1754]

I love how one of the pioneers in ecofriendly vehicles is looking at making tech better in the long term for something we still heavily depend on, Batteries in there current state are emitting greenhouse gases as they are being produced and a lot of the elements are mined in very slavery rich areas, the whole point of moving away from gas is to lower emission to help the environment not just to take away gas reliance ( now that's how it was marketed to the people) we still need to work on EV Tech down the pipeline because we have no large scale battery recycling while all the elements excluding lithium are rare earth metals and lithium is very reactive

[@linusa2996]

@@stickynorth only because you are a cultist. Fact, gasoline, despite it's inefficiency still creates 50x more watts per lb than the most efficient battery used on cars.

[@TeslaRoadtrips]

lol. if you open up with slavery. already lost me, most EVs made now use LFP chemistry don't even use cobalt, manganese, etc

[@linusa2996]

@EnriqueThiele it could be recycled, but thus far only 5% is being recycled

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@linusa2996 Vapes or phones don't get recycled, but a 500 pound car battery you can get money back for. Just like lead acid gets recycled near 100%.

[@linusa2996]

@@jamesvandamme7786 I'm not talking about vape or phone batteries, I'm talking specifically about the large EV batteries. As of today, only 5% are actually being recycled.

[@davisdesigns1153]

Toyota has always made sensible choices, this shows the benefit of doing so

[@hojnikb]

except when they needlessly poured billions of dollars in to deadend tech like hydrogen.

[@ashutoshshahi9321]

Video starts at 5:55

[@anvilsvs]

I'm not a Toyota fan boy. Didn't much like the early Prii (too slow, etc.) but they've got it right on this.

[@ali_adeeb]

Toyota will be fine. I see all manufacturers struggling selling their EVs from Ford to GMC. Plus the reliability is garbage especially in colder climates. I think an extremely efficient hybrid is the solution, and can help us get to a stable eco-friendly equilibrium of carbon emissions given we change the rest of the energy production system to net carbon zero like Nuclear etc. @EnriqueThiele

[@noodlechrist4958]

Ah yes, the CEO of Volkswagen. Such integrity.

[@zdzislawmeglicki2262]

The problem with those oh so proudly exhibited EVs is that … nobody wants them. The lots are full of unsold EVs so much so the companies are forced to shut down production and accept horrendous losses on EVs sold, while the dealers openly refuse to carry the vehicles and to pay for the exorbitantly expensive infrastructure and expertise needed to support them.

[@zdzislawmeglicki2262]

@EnriqueThiele That was a *projection* for 2023. The real number is not known yet and we've seen a slump in sales towards the end of the year. As to further growth of EV demand it is a projection too. As shortcomings of EVs become better understood and strategic materials required to build them less available and more expensive, the supply and demand may well drop. Currently just one country, China, accounts for 60% of global EV sales. But China is hardly your typical automotive market.

[@YeHtetWin]

@EnriqueThiele stop crying

[@johanvts]

Nobody wants them? Model Y was the best selling car across the world last year.

[@johanvts]

​@@zdzislawmeglicki2262or the number will just grow as battery prices keep dropping and more affordable cars like the ID2 model 2 and E-C3 reach the market. But I think the US might just take a lot longer to switch to evs than the rest of the world.

[@zdzislawmeglicki2262]

@@johanvts The best selling cars of 2023 according to Car and Driver: 1. Ford F-series 2. Chevy Silverado 3. Ram Pickup 4. Toyota RAV4 5. Tesla Y 6. Honda CR-V 7. GMC Sierra 8. Toyota Camry 9. Nissan Rogue 10. Jeep Grand Cherokee Now, when you add up all ICE cars sold against EVs you see that EVs make up a small proportion of total sales, with Tesla dominating this market niche almost completely. Generally EVs are unsuitable for really cold weather (-20°C and below), long distance drives (500 miles and above), and towing (over 2000 lb) which is why we here in Estados Unidos don't want them.

[@doctorbhudda]

EVs are great in theory but when it comes to where that electricity comes from, for many Americans it's generated from fossil fuels. Where I live the only power company available is coal powered. For renters, which is most people here, solar panels aren't an option. So here buying an EV means more coal burning. At least with a hybrid there's less carbon being emitted.

[@justinjones6810]

Toyota sees that evs will not be viable for mass market adoption until certain specifications are meet which are consumers being able to charge the battery from 10 to 80 percent in 10 minutes and have 400 miles of range building electric cars before those two things have been achieved is ridiculous once the battery manufactures have cells that can do the charging rate as stated above that is when you push forward with electric cars

[@kornkernel2232]

​​@EnriqueThieleYep, and thats the tech is where goldilocks zone for EVs. Probably Toyota knew about this and will make one based on new tech. Now that just need to have the cost done and truly reliable. Still too new and not yet well proven Toyota is kinda conservative company, except they occassionally experiment. But for the most part they want that something that last since its their own reputation is in line here and wanted to keep that. Its not like ICE vehicles is completely banned in all countries, it will be a long transition still. Thats why they want to sell more Hybrids instead for now.

[@YeHtetWin]

@EnriqueThiele stop crying

[@billant2]

Why not charge from 10 to 100%? I don't refill my gas tank to only 80%, but always full. They might as well say charging from 10% to 100% in 30 minutes. lol

[@bradhaines3142]

the thing is even with those abilities, that battery is easily 1000-3000 pounds by itself. battery tech needs to move so far before the car itself is viable, and more importantly the grid needs 30 years worth of upgrades before it can handle them. most people dont realize an ev pulls more power than a whole house with a single charge, and most places the grid is almost maxed out in summer/winter.

[@billant2]

​@@bradhaines3142 - Exactly, let the blackout times roll! lol

[@coreylee9504]

Toyota’s business model has always been to perfect existing technology, not to pioneer new technology - this is a big reason why Toyota has such great reliability. This and their commitment to process improvements through incremental steps. They’ve always been the last one in on new tech to optimize costs and return-on-investments. This is not a new playbook, just an old one on steroids

[@KbB-kz9qp]

Folks in Chicago recently had a demonstration of how EVs have some problems in winter weather . The thing about cold weather is that it can become life threatening, especially in sparsely populated areas, and so in colder climes, having a reliable car is important.

[@jamesphillips2285]

Strange how the EVs were having trouble in Chicago, but not colder places. Through I heard through the local grapevine that 630 CHED in Edmonton complained about EVs not starting ... could not find a copy of the episode. After having rescued my sister's ICE car that would not start at -20c (-4F): I blamed the 12V system. EVs can be boosted just like ICE cars in the extreme cold.

[@opmacace523]

@@jamesphillips2285they are having trouble in Norway too you know the range basically gets cut in half in cold winters because you have to use the heater and the battery capacity is lower. They just don’t talk about it to much because it doesn’t fit the agenda

[@jamesphillips2285]

@@opmacace523 The agenda of having a livable biosphere?!? THAT agenda?

[@opmacace523]

@@jamesphillips2285 just tell me that you don’t know how batteries are made and shut up

[@jamesphillips2285]

@@opmacace523 I can also say you obviously don't know how oil mining works.

[@MrManuel1329]

I love how Honda is flying under the radar with only one EV that hadnt been released yet.

[@Alarios711]

It's really weird that the video frames the full electric as greener than hybrid when the very document they read mid video seems to indicate otherwise. If you commute 12-15 miles to your job, you plug-in hybrid is pretty much going to run only on the battery. So you get an EV, that can do long trips on demand (or has a back-up if you forget to charge it overnight), has has 1/6 of the battery requirement a full EV has. It's like an EV but way less polluting to manufacture due to the smaller battery size.

[@thomasreese2816]

That 'material' is Toyota marketing, not research. EVs on a dirty grid are greener than plug-in hybrids. They always win

[@nicewall8311]

@@thomasreese2816 Producing an electric car produces significantly more emissions than an ICE car. Even the greenest electric cars, with small batteries, powered off a 100% clean energy grid take years to break-even. This is common knowledge that even EV enthusiasts are well aware of. Hybrids are absolutely greener in many instances, the reason EV people still push EVs is that rapid improvement of technology will start to widen the gap. But for now, in this instance, EVs are not as green as they may seem at first glance. Toyota is simply waiting for other companies to solve the problems EVs have and jump in later, for good or bad.

[@Yutani_Crayven]

Research shows that most hybrid owners use the vehicles in the same way as a regular ICE vehicle, meaning, people don't charge it often enough and run it on gas most of the time, negating the environmental benefit of electric motors.

[@jessemeyer3052]

Lack of charging stations is a very real concern for many. If one has a home, a BEV is far more convenient, since it only takes a few seconds to plug in each night. If one is an apartment dweller, a gas or hybrid car is frequently more convenient.

[@jamessmyth5949]

It's not just the lack of charging stations that concerns me with EVs. It's the astronomical cost of a replacement battery, if you can even get one when the time arises, fudging of the figures when it comes to actual driving range, the cost of more expensive tires and more frequent tire replacements, the higher insurance costs, faster depreciation, lack of repair shops that deal with body repairs on EVs, the length of time you wait for a repair due to lack of parts availablity. There's just too many negatives.

[@tw8464]

Yeah the EVs current technology they are better for people who own a home and can charge overnight

[@tw8464]

​@@jamessmyth5949definitely a lot of issues though probably many of these issues will get ironed out. Anything new is going to have issues to iron out. The insurance is an issue although I have some suspicion insurance companies aren't doing some price gouging perhaps thinking ev owners early adopters are more affluent

[@Steve_in_NJ]

Went car shopping today. Well, sort of. I took my 2022 Hyundai Kona to the dealership for it's routine oil and filter change. While waiting, I sat inside a 2024 Kona top model and even though it's "space age", the 1.6 Liter Turbo engine (what I drive now) will *only* get 26 mpg combined. Meanwhile, I am also seriously looking at a 2024 Toyota Corolla Cross HYBRID XSE for next year and for the same price (approximately, depends of whether the dealership does dealer markups and how much), a Toyota Crossover hybrid will get 42-48 mpg!!! Something to consider as I am not ready for full-on EV for just those reasons you mentioned in the video (price, price, price). The price of a new EV, the price of having a charger installed at my home (solar roof panels, green charging energy), and the price of the increased automobile insurance.

[@Steve_in_NJ]

Oh, and the OTHER reason why Toyota isn't going fully electric? They are developing Solid State batteries to replace Lithium-Ion so that's a better technology once it's available.

[@chrisdeguzman7795]

@@Steve_in_NJi heard that as well, thats a game changer…

[@itisabird]

Solar panels are not a requirement for having an electric vehicule in the same way as you don't need an oil well in your garden to have a petrol car. You can charge your car with energy from your utility company.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Would you buy a $25K EV?

[@linusa2996]

@@itisabird Per Elon Musk, the electrical generation has to double to just meet the electrical demand for an EV economy. Hint, the US is not going to be able to double it's power generation for decades.

[@Morboxx]

They're betting on reactionaries, mostly, I think. All manufacturers still have combustion cars, but the urban clientel is already moving on. Here in Stuttgart, Germany (definitely a car city), you get a LOT of EVs. If you're not in the game now, you're certainly going to lose parts of the market in the long run, especially if you consider rare earths. Getting access to the resource markets will be more difficult, if others all have long-lasting contracts already. They'll get what's left. I don't see them buying lithium and cobalt mines Henry Ford style. So what they hope is that reactionaries will slow down the market and buy enough combustion cars so they can come to the party just as it gets started for real. It's a bet you can take, especially if you're very confident in your egnineers' abilities to get where others are in much less time. They do have the advantage of already being a huge producer of electric cars...that happen to be crossdressing combustion cars. I HOPE they're wrong. And I do think they're wrong. In any case, the company won't go down. There WILL be regions and parts of the industry where combustion cars will continue being important for a while longer. But I do believe that the more affluent markets will mostly be over combustion cars before even reaching their goals in this regard. I live in Germany and I follow the technological advances to some degree. There are still BIG steps being made in battery tech and prices are falling. EVs are already more cost-effective if you take a look at lifetime costs of cars. Gas is expensive! The issue right now is mostly: investments are expensive up front. And people WILL realise that buying a combustion car is more expensive in the long run. EVs have much less stuff that can break...

[@danpro4519]

In other words, Toyota is smart as usual

[@qn3734]

I have a 1998 Toyota Camry and it does the job

[@Maebbie]

The video discusses Toyota's strategy in the electric vehicle (EV) market and why the company has been slower to adopt EVs compared to other car manufacturers. Toyota has focused on hybrids and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, citing challenges such as critical minerals, charging infrastructure, and affordability. The video suggests that Toyota may be intentionally "falling behind" on EVs to save its hybrid sales, which make up a significant portion of the market. However, Toyota has announced plans to release more electric cars in the coming years.

[@PeterBryn]

Toyotas logic in this document is circular: “EV’s won’t happen because the technology isn’t there, so we’re not going to invest in the technology until the technology is there.” Change doesn’t happen until people make it happen. The investment in chargers and research happens alongside commercialization. I’m glad other brands are showing the way.

[@gregvanpaassen]

It would be interesting to know in detail what big fleet buyers think about EVs now. For example rental companies.

[@Xander1Sheridan]

well Hertz is having issues renting Telsas, to the point they basically only rent them to people that use them for ride share.

[@csilver9625]

Rental companies are struggling with EVs. They are renting them out without much EV experience from the employees or the customers. Even though I personally will never go back to a combustion engine vehicle. Rental fleets with EV’s face an uphill battle. One of the biggest benefits of an electric car is to be able to fuel up every night while you’re asleep at your home. When you’re in a rental, you’re probably not staying anywhere where you can “fuel up” while you’re asleep.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

I bought my car from Hertz and had a good experience. I've been shopping for a Bolt from Hertz, but they want $30K for a 2 year old with 40K miles. There's very few, and of course they're all ugly colors (white, black). I've also heard stories about Hertz never charges them so you drive off and have to find a charger in a strange town. And the Teslas, people want to see how much zip they got, so of course the tire and repair expense is killing them. Delivery services are going crazy for EVs because the maintenance costs are so much lower. The USPS should have had EVs years ago. They stop at every mailbox and they'd save a LOT of money on fuel, brakes, etc. Unfortunately they're buying them from a crooked company.

[@jlrguy2702]

I think you have your answer now, Hertz are selling them all and going back to Gas cars. Electric cars are great when you buy one and look after it, but who knows what you are getting with a second-hand one and when they go wrong they cost a packet to fix.

[@wisenber]

"For example rental companies." Hertz is reducing their EV inventory by 22k this year and replacing them with hybrids.

[@leeswecho]

there's an important piece of information that makes all of these actions more understandable: there's only two companies that currently can build an EV for less than what they can sell it for -- Tesla and BYD. And its not even close. I've heard of negative margins on the level of the selling price of the car (i.e. costing almost double what its being sold for). For the moment, every other company is "faking it til they make it" and hoping they can figure it out before they bleed to death. It's why GM ended the Bolt (and hoping to reintroduce it on its hopefully-profitable Ultium technology platform).

[@addanametocontinue]

Why on Earth would I want to buy an EV when the charging infrastructure isn't there, charging time is still not that great, repairs are, from what I've heard, incredibly expensive, and they generally cost more? Toyota is absolutely right. If I want to cut down on emissions and still get the benefits of a gas car, I would get a hybrid. All the benefits of an ICE and you get even more range and MPG.

[@moatplay]

How I see it Toyota went all in on hybrids. They are the only company to have most of their line up available as a hybrid including their Lexus brand. Building cars is hard and it’s difficult developing brand new automotive technologies. As an example, any company that can build a successful nuclear power car will have the exact same problems EV makers are having today.

[@mikhilmuhuthan6903]

As a car enthusiast, I respect toyota for not going full ev like other car manufacters. They stay grounded and watch as the others fly too close to the tesla sun and melt thier wings and plunge into the ocean, helplessly swimming back to the shore or drowning and sinking into the cold, dark, deep ocean.

[@thersanothersidetome]

I think you misunderstood or misstated Toyota’s statistic. They said materials from 1 EV battery can be used to produce 6 Plug in hybrids, and 90 regular Hybrids.

[@Kosciejas]

Toyota is just going to wait until it becomes mainstream. Keep doing their thing that is clearly working, and let others keep forcing EVs and figuring things out. It’s not like EVs are so green too so i totally understand them.

[@billant2]

Nothing wrong with that, in the meantime they keep selling less expensive and more desired gas cars. Mind blown!

[@Kosciejas]

@@billant2 exactly my point...

[@emmanuelgutierrez8616]

Like Polaroid waiting for digital to fade out of style lol

[@billant2]

​@@emmanuelgutierrez8616 - No, unlike Polaroid, Toyota knows that 90% of consumers still want reliable, less expensive, and long range cars. When the time comes they'll make plenty of great EV's at affordable prices. We're not there yet, battery technology the power grid needs to be upgraded first.

[@evancombs5159]

@@billant2 something everyone misses about the power grid, they are only going to upgrade it as the demand requires them. There is no benefit to the power companies to have excess capacity. They want to stay just barely ahead of the curve otherwise they risk wasting money managing those additional resources that they otherwise didn't need. The grid is the least of our worries, it will expand as our electrical needs expand, and no faster.

[@philmarsh7723]

I want a plug in hybrid which has no transmission and where the engine only operates a generator to keep batteries charged and provide power and heat. Why are they still putting transmissions in hybrids???

[@yumameda]

Because the tiny electric motor they put in those cars are not enough to power the car. They only work low speeds for a short distance.

[@stephenberry8658]

Nissan X Trail E Force Electric drive with ICE generator or Mitsubishi Outlander plug in hybrid with EV drive train

[@Quaerite.Intellectum]

First of all, EVs are NOT affordable for most people. They're affordable to only the relatively small percentage of people who can actually afford them and all the idiots who constantly have a loan on cars they can't really afford, AKA they spend most of their money paying for a car loan and then complain, "I'm broke!". Ya, that's because you buy shit you can't afford. Second, something you did not address in your video and it's VERY important. If everyone is buying EVs, the demand on our power grid is going to sky rocket astronomically. Are we as a country building tons of reliable power plants and other power sources to be prepared for that? As far as I know, that's NOT happening. It's certainly not happening in California. Last summer the governor asked people to not charge their cars for a few days. Those two things need to be solved.

[@coleeto2]

EVs have a lower cost of ownership compared to ICE vehicles. It would be more accurate to say most people can’t afford a brand new car! Secondly, if starting today all new car sales were EV, it would take about 20 years for all (well close to all) cars on the road to be EV. There are a huge number of renewable energy projects in the works, some are built and waiting on red tape from the grid companies.

[@Quaerite.Intellectum]

@@coleeto2 Test

[@evancombs5159]

California is a special case, don't assume anything that is true in California is true anywhere else. In fact, it is usually the opposite.

[@T33K3SS3LCH3N]

The argument that EVs need too many precious metals is definitely a copout. Lithium ion batteries for EVs are currently on course to drop below $100/kWh of capacity. And there are multiple replacement technologies without rare minerals, which aren't far behind the curve and would take over if lithium gets too expensive. The environmental case against lithium and copper mining is also weak when compared to fossil fuels. Global electrification will require some tens of millions of tons of metals to replace TRILLIONS of tons of fossil fuels. The total amount of mining and shipping for renewables, electric cars, and electric heating is dramatically lower compared to coal and gas power plants, gas cars, and gas heating.

[@snafu1635]

>anime pfp

[@carefree85a]

you think we will be able to power global electrification via renewables? mathematically impossible.

[@vadskar64]

One should be in Midwest this week to see why EVs are not ready for the prime time.

[@rancidmarshmallow4468]

The lack of L2 chargers in normal parking lots and spaces feels like the last major hurdle for the tipping point of adoption- I looked at buying an EV recently and what I realized is that while it would have the range for any weekend trip I regularly make, it wouldn't be able to get back home without stopping at a dc fast charger along the way. There are fairly quick, but at the end of the day take time in the middle of routes. I'd much rather have been able to get that same range while parked during the 6 hours I was at an event or someone's house. Even old compliance EVs that you can find in California for well under 10k would be useful with thier 60-100 miles of range if that meant being able to go somewhere 60-100 miles away, be guaranteed whatever you were visiting had a charger, and come back instead of feeling like you could only safely go 30-50 miles away because you needed to get back without charging. If Toyota didn't just want to make excuses and complain that evs don't work, they could be putting real effort into making them work. Bonus, it makes thier plug-in hybrids better too, if every parking space had a charger plugins get a free 10-30 miles of bev range every time you stop on a trip.

[@alex98b627]

I don’t understand range anxiety. How often are these people driving more than 300 miles in one trip?! That’s crazy. I’m Australia and we also have a large country traverse but driving for over 6 hours wouldn’t happen very often. I don’t understand hating a car because the trip you make once or twice a year might need a charge part way through.

[@Globalurb]

I used to do that kind of trip at least once a month. There are people doing that kind of trip every week because driving is cheaper than flying and more flexible than taking the train.

[@alex98b627]

Yeah sure, I get it. But that must be such a small percentage of the car buying population. Maybe 5%? Which is why I don’t understand how it’s become such a thing. If it impacts 5% or less of the buyers out there then it shouldn’t be a thing. Surely for 95%+ of car buyers a range of even just 100 miles would be totally sufficient for 99.99% of their car trips. So 300 miles is more than plenty.

[@alex98b627]

@@CheapSushiI don’t understand the relevance of not filling up your gas tank. I would say that ‘most Americans’ live in single family homes and therefore would have access to plug in the car over night. So the partial pulling up at a gas station is totally irrelevant. Also stop start traffic is much better for an electric car with regenerative braking. So your 1 trip across your city is actually better for range than when you travel on the highway out of the city. So my point stands - for most of your trips a range of 100 miles would be more than enough. So 300 miles is surely enough over 95% of car buyers and car trips.

[@alex98b627]

@@CheapSushialso the not filling up thing happens in Australia but really only by students who don’t drive much. Your gas is soooo cheap so I don’t know why you guys are always complaining about it. Australia, Europe, UK has prices 2-4x more expensive.

[@viktorianas]

EVs depreciate 50% in a couple years, nice to buy used, but what a lunatic would buy as first buyer... It's like people who buy new Alpha Romeo...

[@pixelboy7654]

EV won't be popular in the US because the range which is a dismal 150 miles on average and charging is too long. Also Electric is not green and it won't be for a long time. And lower emission ICE cars like the hybrids are on EV's tale. There are use cases for EV because they are fun to drive but for long range and transport it is a no.

[@staycgirlsitsgoingdown2]

Not true. Basically every single EV these days goes atleast 250-300 miles, some can go beyond 400-500 on a single charge. Somewhat ironically… the only EV on sale here that im aware of with less than 200 miles of range… is the Toyota one

[@pixelboy7654]

@@staycgirlsitsgoingdown2 That would only be true if people charge it 100% and drive it to 0%

[@staycgirlsitsgoingdown2]

@@pixelboy7654 …ok? that’s generally how you measure a vehicles range… you don’t say gas cars can only go 200 miles because most people don’t drive them from full to empty

[@pixelboy7654]

@@staycgirlsitsgoingdown2 You are right and perhaps I wasn't clear: What I meant was the average range practically not the average range theoretically. And actually people do more often go from totally full to empty in an ICE or EV. Look, EV's have their place for municipal driving but not long range or transport

[@staycgirlsitsgoingdown2]

@@pixelboy7654 again… not true. Most people (over 80%) with EVs charge them at home everyday and don’t use more than 10-20% of the battery every day. I’ve had one for almost a year and quite literally the only time I’ve ever driven it to empty or even had to use a public charging station was on a road trip, every single morning I wake up and the car is fully charged using a standard household socket and the charger it came with, using less than 20$ a month in electricity. I never think about charging, I never worry about range, I never worry about running out, I never worry about having to stop, I don’t even have to think about how much electricity costs or going 20 min out of the way to get it for 2c cheaper. And on road trips, it’s not even an issue. Newer EVs can recharge to 80% in under 15 min, and even most slower ones can do that in under 30 min. And realistically, you’re probably taking a break of 15-20 min every 3-4 hours anyways for food and bathroom stops. If you’ve never owned one “20 min to recharge” definitely SOUNDS like an issue but in reality it’s not

[@mattcee7113]

1:25 Manufacturers sold EV’s in California in the 90’s was due to the California Air Resources Board mandate that required manufacturers to sell a small percentage of EV’s in the state. Manufacturers later sued the state several years later…

[@keithharmonie]

Californians are the only one's that actually want EV's. EV's are still not as reliable as gas. Thats why I think Toyota is smart with keeping the hybrids around. EVs still have low range very expensive to fix and still hard to find charging stations outside of Cali. You ever tried charging a EV in NYC?? good luck lol. Hybrids are like the DVD VHS combo its the best of both worlds.

[@bingflosby]

I live in Los Angeles none of the apartments have chargers and there is lines at the charging stations in busy areas people wait for hours

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Hybrids are also the worst of both worlds; complicated and expensive. I like Mazda's idea: a small light range extender Wankel engine. So you're always running off the electric motor & battery, but with an onboard charger that runs at ideal RPM. But I think the PHEV's era will be short as chargers and NACS plugs proliferate.

[@csilver9625]

I agree, hybrids are like the DVD/tape combo…. Going to be pretty much non existent in the future. They are the worst of both gas and electric cars… all the maintenance, unreliable and problems of gas AND a super small battery and more complexity to integrate the electric motor with the gas components so even more expensive to repair.

[@fsckool6894]

how much range do you want? Million Mile??

[@fsckool6894]

either buy new tesla which are more reliable than others, or buy used gas powered, hybrids are just stupid,

[@Sir.suspicious]

Toyota just seems to be taking the sensible route as usual

[@R0Tl]

At 6:41 Toyota didn't say the material in 6 BEVs could make 90 hybrids. As it says right there on the image that you showed, they can use the material in one BEV to make 6 PHEVs or to make 90 regular HEVs.

[@samin90]

And yet they don't many anywhere near enough. My local Toyota dealership has 5 cars on the lot, not hybrids, just cars. Meanwhile the Model Y is the best selling car in the world Clearly the raw materials aren't the problem

[@costis2024]

​@@samin90 in Europe almost 100% of Toyotas sold are hybrids

[@ijustfelldown]

​@@samin90 if your world only has a few developed parts of some North American and European regions, then Model Y is the best selling car. But it's not at all the best selling car in the whole world.

[@Maxime_K-G]

So Toyota is promoting gas cars because Chevron told them too? That just makes them complicit...

[@LeseanDeVon]

Great to see Cleveland here, but as a Cleveland born resident, I really see Cleveland moving for EVs in mostly affluent suburbs. Places like Mayfield Heights and Shaker Heights have taken likings to Rivians and Teslas, the Ford dealership that said EVs aren’t moving are probably talking about the lack of Ford EVs seen on Ohio roads at the given moment. Good video regardless though, and appreciate the 216 rep!

[@filippxx]

I would force the Toyota CEO being carried like royalty in best cars Toyota can make, to walk at least 30 minutes in a busy city at rush hour. We live in a world where mega rich pricks are deciding environmental policies based on a deck that they get in an office totally isolated from it.

[@4AMO4]

Bro ain't no way these people eyes are this closed. Behind the curve? Nah, they're just that far ahead.

[@BeefIngot]

Thats because you are living in ignorance but think you must be right with low information.

[@peenoice5176]

​@@BeefIngotnah the EV craze is just dying down, ev technology just hasn't matured yet to be considered practical.

[@drfisheye]

2,800 people per charger in California seems low. The Netherlands has 120 people per public charger, or 34 if you include private chargers. Did you mean DC fast chargers?

[@bobby350z]

Man I have seen 2 BZ4X in the last one yr in SF bay area. I normally see 20 Teslas in < 1 min on the road here. And that BZ4X isn't cheap either. It costs as much as Model Y. So for me, Toyota has itself to blame.

[@dickiewongtk]

Blame for what?

[@codechrist]

I don’t understand this comment? Blame for what? …Very uneducated and ignorant comment. Please go back and do your homework! Fail!!

[@bobby350z]

@@dickiewongtk - Making expensive EV which doesn't compete with the competition.

[@linusa2996]

@@bobby350z Per Toyota, they can make 6-10 Hybrids for the materials it costs to make 1 EV. That's not marketing, that's from the CEO of Toyota.

[@bobby350z]

@@linusa2996 - And you believe the CEO of any company?

[@GonzoSaavedra]

Electrification by Lithium Manganese and Cobalt batteries is IMPOSIBLE in the next 30 Years as a minimum. The scale of the lack of recourses problem from a "world production/reserves" level is about... multiplying everything by 100 fold, in world year production. And using every gram of Li Co or Mn produced only in EVs and not, computer batteries, cell batteries or any other Li battery dependent technology would cover LESS THAN A 2% of the world sales of 66MM vehicules sold every year. Toyota is not only doing the right thing, they are the only car company in the game not feeding structural BS to the public. And the expectancy is that in 30 years technologies like "ANY OTHER CHEMICAL BATTERY being studied and developed today" will be better and more economical than Li batteries.

[@YokubouTenshi]

The hybrid model is the only economically viable option so far, even without incentives. EVs don't make any sense unless governments take taxpayer money and give it away to EV makers.

[@CodyDavis91]

Incorrect. First and foremost, the cost of electricity is generally lower than the cost of gasoline. As a result, EV owners can save a significant amount of money on fuel over the lifetime of their vehicle. Additionally, the cost of electricity is more stable and predictable than gasoline prices, which can fluctuate greatly due to various factors. Second, EVs have fewer moving parts than hybrid vehicles and require less maintenance. This means that EV owners can save money on maintenance and repair costs over the lifetime of their vehicle. For example, EVs do not require oil changes or tune-ups, and their brakes tend to last longer due to regenerative braking.

[@lordt78]

@@CodyDavis91 EVs are good for those reasons you mentioned but right now hybrids are the way to go. Stop trying to push back!

[@tribalypredisposed]

Lol! Yeah, give me the car with a higher production cost, lots more maintenance, worse efficiency, worse acceleration, worse cargo and passenger space, way more things that can break, because it is more "economically viable." Yes, the base model Toyota Prius is $27,000 and the base Model 3 is $39,000, but your five year ownership cost is lower for the Model 3 since it will retain more of its value and have lower maintenance and fuel costs.

[@rhrh2025]

The electrical grid, probably worldwide, isn't designed to sustain massive vehicle rechargings at the same time. For this reason, I'm with Toyota. It could be a pending disaster!

[@PaponDSazon]

Exactly and there’s no way to build the infrastructure on the scale of supporting full electric vehicles for everyone. And all the other auto makers have back down on the full EV line up because of cost and logistics. We would need the power of the sun to truly have all EV vehicles and I hope that day doesn’t come

[@kiefershanks4172]

Toyota is positioning itself as the plug-in hybrid leader so they are not going to be phased out of the market by mandates. I think their reasoning to avoid fully electric cars is logical given the resource constraints of producing batteries. Most people only need a small amount of range for the vast majority of their driving. It is wasteful to build BEVs with large, long range batteries. Let's say you have a fleet of 50 cars and you have only enough resources to build 100kWh of batteries. Building one or two BEVs with those batteries would be foolish if your goal is to reduce emissions of the fleet. Sure you've made two cars zero-emission but there's still 48 other cars that must be gas powered. The overall emissions reduction would be small. But take those 100kWh of batteries to make 50 2kWh hybrid batteries and now your entire fleet is more efficient. Sure they still burn gasoline, but hybrids burn significantly less fuel than conventional powertrains, up to a ballpark of 30% less fuel. This would mean your average emissions reduction would be much higher with a 100% hybrid fleet than a fleet with 1-2 BEVs and 48 conventional vehicles. Just saying. Unlike the tech bros at Tesla, the engineers at Toyota have actually done some math.

[@YeHtetWin]

@EnriqueThiele bro stop crying. how much do they pay you to reply to every comment to say the same thing?

[@markin_]

@EnriqueThielethe car batteries are recyclable in theory, but there’s no logistics and industry ready to do it in large quantities yet. Although there’s a lot of “battery minerals” in the ground, there’s a big environmental impact mining it and it’s mostly done in poor countries with no consideration to the workers safety at all.

[@yulusleonard985]

@@markin_ Isnt today they mine cobalt mostly in US/Canada? Also the industry moving toward LFP without cobalt.

[@rushnerd]

Just Toyota being smart and extremely conservative as always. It really makes them stand out now. I could care less with my 88' Supra and 01' Celica GT-S though...

[@yulusleonard985]

@@rushnerd lol did you hear the latest news? The "conservative" Toyota, not Daihatsu so they cant dodge responsibility, commit another safety scandal.

[@teoengchin]

Their strategy might have actually worked in a universe where Tesla and Elon Musk did not exist

[@JohnDotBomb]

My roommate loves his plug in hybrid! He goes through a tank of gas every few months. It weighs less than an EV so it's probably more efficient, and it cost less carbon and money to produce. I think a 40-60 mile range is great to cover the 90% of driving for much less investment

[@stickynorth]

Oh yeah? What's his name? This smacks of a fake story used by anti EV people... Or worse? AI!

[@tribalypredisposed]

Not more efficient than any but the most absurd EVs, like the GM Hummer EV.

[@someguy2135]

What model of Toyota does your friend have? Prius Prime or RAV4 Prime?

[@tribalypredisposed]

@EnriqueThieleA good hybrid, like a plug in Prius, is as good as going vegan for reducing emissions, it is significant. It is not as good as a similar size Tesla, say the Model 3, but it is probably comparable to some of the bigger less efficient EVs, like the new GM Sierra EV. If people are only willing to eat less meat, I encourage them to eat less meat, if they are only willing to buy a hybrid, I encourage that as well. All these extremists screaming they don't want EVs, they want electric mass transit, the even more extreme don't want that even, everybody should just bicycle...it doesn't get us anywhere. Accept what people are willing to do gratefully and then wait for them to be willing to do more.

[@kalmmonke5037]

energy effiency is not a endgoal, its a means to a end@@tribalypredisposed

[@B11O567]

I wonder how second-hand EVs and their trade-in values are going to affect brand reputation. If your cars are undriveable after 10-15 years that’s going to put a pretty big damper on your reputation.

[@lanzer22]

If companies can convince us that smoking is good for you, I’m not surprised that people think climate change is not real and EVs are bad. People still haven’t figured out that the narrative of the largest industry is the opposite of what you should believe.

[@lanzer22]

@@CheapSushi It's odd that you're literally supporting climate denial studies that are sponsored by Shell and other oil companies while saying that whoever support the mounting evidence on climate change and the impact on EV is "taking in a minimal amount of information"... There's literally hundreds of studies by now, outside of EPA, outside of EU's environmental board, but by universities across the globe, and it doesn't take that many hours to read through a good number of them. It's so odd to see people assume that when someone doesn't think like them - that it must be because they haven't studied or learned enough. That's not even a basis for starting an argument. Like, present some study, present data, that's how you can start an argument. Start with an insult? Well that only paint a picture of who you are.

[@lantosadamlevai496]

Well... First: Toyota knows sth if Volvo just cancelled its plan, that said they will produce only EVs by 2030. You can't plant as many chargers, as required in a high density redisdental zone, where people live in blocks, and still have a car. Another fun fact: Amsterdam had a blackout in one of its district, because too many EVs got plugged in, and the infrastructure couldn't handle. Third one: The most green long term car which is comfortable for people will be always Hybrids. PHEV Vehicle will be good choice for those who lives in a house with garden, and an own a parking lot, where they can plant a charger in their garden, or on their own parking lot, while having solar plant on their roof. Self Charging Hybrids like the Corolla, or other Hybrids of Toyota will be comfortable for people who lives in flat. And let me explain why I said the "greenest long term car": The battery package wear. On usual EVs, the Batterypacks usually HAVE TO BE replaced around 100-150 000km (around 60k miles to 95k), because the battery package wear is pretty high. I mean most people drive it like it is a petrol car with CVT gearbox, which is understandable, because I buy a car, to drive comfortable, and not to accelerate pretty slowly, while driving others on the wall with an unnoticable acceleration. BUT: This time when you accelerate with an EV, the battery pack has to deploye pretty huge amount of energy ON ITS OWN. Not only fast chargers wears the battery really hard, but hard or even the normal acceleration too, and if you have A/C turned on, just think about how many energy has to be deployed by the battery. While in Hybrids the petrol engine take over some required energy to deploy it its own wheels, so the battery's energy output can be restricted to, meaning longer life for the battery package. Just take a look at a hybrid Toyotas. Usually the battery has to be replaced around 250 000km or even more, and you don't have to be worried about. Its electric motors are pretty reliable, and has a long life, because they are not overweared, or overpowered all the time. You have to try pretty hard, and when I mean HARD, I mean it to kill a Toyota Hybrids, like always pressing full throttle, and having hard brakes, etc. And don't try to convince me, that using an 3 tonnes EV SUV will save the planet. That's not the case. The whole world's pollution is high, but the traffic is only responsible with 5% of this, or even less, on the whole globe. Instead of roasting sports cars, and petrol cars, politicans should do sth about the industry. They have a quote how many CO2 they can pollute, but we all know these things are useless against them. They could develop catalitic converters to the chimney of the factories. But no, they can pollute everything they want without any interruption, or notice. And just because a girl went mad in the EU's parlament, doesn't change the fact, that most of these green activists are protesting on the wrong side, and interrupting the wrong people. Also a fun fact to the end: I hope you know, that Tesla's long range batteries are made in China. So just because you bought a Tesla, it doesn't mean you didn't support China's economy Greetings!

[@JeffMathias]

People aren’t grasping the effects of carbon credits and diseconomies of scale. Manufacturers unable to produce compelling EVs by 2030 will just go away.

[@TTOS69]

This is so dumb. Toyota just built a $10 Billion plant here in Greensboro, NC.... To make batteries. Thats all their doing. Making, connecting, selling: Batteries.

[@shattered115]

The electric grid of the USA is not ready to support a large number of EVs. Places like California have a grid that can barely meet its current needs,

[@coleeto2]

EVs can actually improve the stability of the grid, it was studied years ago with way smaller batteries. V2G just needs to be implemented and networked.

[@shattered115]

@@coleeto2The problem now is have we are we putting the cart before the horse? Where I live the line voltage drops 12-15 volts during peak A/C use in the summer. The grid struggles. That is in a area with mostly natural gas water heaters, ranges, and ovens.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@shattered115People mostly charge at home, at night. That evens out the load on the grid.

[@shattered115]

@@jamesvandamme7786It does for now. But what is needed to have 50% of all motor vehicles be EVs. Also, the ability to charge at home is the realm of the middle class suburbanite. Urban residents and apartment dwellers often don't have their own parking spaces.

[@the-gas-station]

@@jamesvandamme7786 Not even 3 weeks after CA passed its "all electric by 2035," it declared an emergency Flex Alert, *specifically* mentioning to not charge EVs at home, during the heatwave as to not overburden the grid. I've seen the study. On paper, having grid stability by removing the trough at night is technically better on hardware maintenance, but the grid itself is not set up to generate the power needed, especially during peak uses. This also doesn't take into account the millions of people that DON'T have EV chargers at home due to either not setting up their garage in their SFR to do so, or living in a non-SFR property like a Condo, Apartment, Duplex, etc. Many white collar workers who still don't make enough money to own an SFR still charge at work during the day, given a charger is provided, while the lowly rest are relegated to the far-too-few charging station spattered about strip mall parking lots. If CA is not adequately set up to have EVs, then the rest of the nation is far worse off. EDIT: I realize my joke username is not doing me any favors lmao!

[@peteramstutz]

I own two plug-in hybrids, a Pacifica hybrid (minivan) and Prius Prime. The people crapping on plugin-ins as "too complicated" don't know what they are talking about. a) electically variable transmissions used in hybrids sre actually mechanically simpler and more reliable than regular automatic transmissions b) because the gas engine doesn't run all the time, it has less wear and tear for miles driven. Similarly, regenerative breaks mean the break pads last way longer. c) Even though the battery pack adds weight, driving on electric is still 2x-3x efficient as gas (and even when driving on gas, hybrids are 20-30% more efficient becaue the engine uses a different cycle which is possible becaue it has the electric motor is available to help). I do think plug-in hybrids are transitional to fully electric but if a fully electric vehicle isn't available or practical, a PHEV lets you decrease your gas usage by 75% _right now_.

[@Sameer-d7w]

I heard Toyota is hedging a bet that EVs are not the way to go and it appears they’re winning as of right now.

[@Wacko2-wrx]

I recall seeing a KZbin item about a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid with a failed hybrid battery which cost $6000 US to replace. So the dilemma was do you spend $6K on a 16 year old car. That’s the concern going forward with hybrid vehicles and the same applies to EV’s. The reality is that you pay more for a hybrid when new and the potential dilemma into the future is the depreciation of the vehicle plus the cost of a battery replacement which must impact on the used car values.

[@GG-si7fw]

To add, China overtook Japan as the largest auto exporter this year and Germany the year before. China is flooding the world with mostly EV's and some gasoline vehicles. Toyota's current BRZ4X EV is a joke for a manufacturer of their size.

[@KoumotoSeihoFusei]

Companies focused on the development of electric vehicles have not performed well. Electric vehicles are outdated. The time for HVs is coming.

[@boxingtherapy87]

I was interested a few years ago about EVs. But now I am definitely more toward a hybrid

[@trucksanddirt1506]

I was also interested, but I'm keeping my gas car for many more years.

[@JonathanRose24]

Why? I have an EV, it’s awesome. I can’t imagine ever going back to a gas powered car again

[@boxingtherapy87]

@JonathanRose24 Well, affordability is a issue. At least for me. It's a investment I'm not ready to throw down on just yet

[@JonathanRose24]

@@boxingtherapy87 EVs have come down in price considerably, but if it’s a budget issue, that I can understand and can respect that. Gotta do what’s right for you.

[@JonathanRose24]

@@trucksanddirt1506 dangerous? How so?

[@DuffyGabi]

EVs are tanking. A lot of car manufacturers might go bankrupt because they won’t be able to make a reliable EV vehicle that people will want. As for 2024, Toyota looks the best positioned for the next five years. Ford is certainly screwed.

[@alanyoung159]

I want a BEV, but it's still too pricey, among other things to work through.

[@mass5904]

Hybrid cars are the best best of both worlds efficiency and convenience