Sequels & Expectations

[@adammoynihan2589]

I think transparency and clear communication from the developers is very important on this point so audiences don't feel like they've been hoodwinked when a sequel is drastically different.

[@TheMichaellathrop]

At this point I just don't pre-order anything, no matter what horse armor I get for the gamestop pre-order bonuses.

[@_george84]

I love your reviews but I love even more this "thoughts" videos. You are articulate and intelligent.

[@xxTICxxTOCxx]

I think you mean 'articulate' 'Articulated' means having many sections, connected together by moving joints.

[@_george84]

@@xxTICxxTOCxx Thank you! English is not my first language and you taught me something new. I edited to fix it :) PS: In Spanish "articulado" is the word for both meanings, thus my confusion. Thanks again!

[@xxTICxxTOCxx]

@@_george84 Congratulations on speaking multiple languages, you're certainly more accomplished than myself in that regard. Have a great week, George.

[@_george84]

@@xxTICxxTOCxx You too!

[@clifcorcoran9917]

I came for the KZbin jazz... But yes expectations are incredibly tough to manage. One of the things I enjoy about this channel is that there is never a full throated negative nor positive review. You do a good job of highlighting the positives and negatives of each game. I appreciate that.

[@macdd7257]

I don't play videogame that much anymore, but I continue watching your channel as you are one if the most relevant creator in the video game genre. Please continue your good work, mortim

[@vividwight]

Dragon Age is a really good example, not least because of how much Origins was pushed as being a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 by the company that made them. DAO seemed to keep in line with this lineage while doing it's own things, but DA2 moved away and then DAI was very different. It's difficult for people who bought in because of the linkage to games they loved to then see them be abandoned. The timing was important for how reactions formed as well - DAO had come after a slump in the CRPG market, and felt like it could be a re-birth. Instead, from DA2 it felt they wanted a mass market, console approach... much like what had happened in the CRPG space in the late 90s/early 00s leading to the slump. As we've seen since - the CRPG genre has a substantial market and lots of dedicated fans, and I think people who bought in to DAO were very disappointed when the sequels didn't help build the market, and instead had to wait for other games to do so.

[@cbake52]

The first Dragon's age was my favorite by far. I put 70 hours into that game the week it came out and has just been bummed since then.

[@sodapopinksi667]

Same boat. Multiple playthroughs of the first one. The other ones...I'm glad if you liked them.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

DA2 at least has some good ideas and imo has the best party in Dragon Age. That short development time EA forced on them is where most of its problems can be attributed to. Inquisition? Ugh so many decisions made irritated me especially Corypheus he's such a terrible villain he *almost* makes Kai Leng palatable. He's so terrible compared to the rest of the Bioware rogue's gallery it's offensive lol.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

@@GabrielPassarelliG Corypheus being a compelling villain will make the fact he's being puppeteered by someone else even better. He's not though and that's a problem especially since Bioware previously has always managed to have a compelling villain in all their games even minor ones or in the case of Jade Empire, well if you've played it you know exactly what I mean by that.

[@mathieuguillet4036]

I did like how DA2 had you see the evolution of the city over time.

[@cbake52]

@@jmmywyf4lyf I am thinking you're on to something and would love to be dissapointed. It's just super sad that as these triple A developers have gotten larger they have lost the passion to make great games and are greedy husks of what they used to be.

[@harleykennelly9994]

i understand that these types of videos dont usually do too well, but i wish more well established creators would speak like this more. its always nice to see and hear from people who rely have video games as their way of making money, it feels more geniune. I personally wish you would continue making these types of videos cuz you are well spoken and are careful with being aware of what all sides might feel in regards to the topic. Fantastic stuff as usual mort keep it up.

[@Shikao87]

Something a little bit different is a nice refresher from your usual content I could easily listen to a half hour version of this

[@levantine1978]

I've always felt like expectations are the death of fun. Sequels, by design, have expectation built in so oftentimes they have a lot working against them. A sophomore effort needs to give people what they liked while still iterating and providing something new and it's so difficult to stick that landing. The most successful sequels, in my mind, are the ones that capture the spirit of what came before but that's a pretty ephemeral quality. To paraphrase a bit: I'm not sure what it looks like, but I know it when I see it. I agree with your assessment of Dragons Dogma 2. It felt like it was lacking a lot of QoL and features of DD:DA. It also felt like they ramped up the player-antagonistic features but that's not what I personally enjoyed about the original so I bounced off it a bit.

[@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968]

I absolutely agree but Mass Effect 2 is universally praised but I feel in many ways it didn't really iterate much from the first game, yet somehow ended up more popular. I think in that case it's due toe narrative and characters but I also think it's due to the gameplay too. It brought a lot more looter/shooter folk in because it stripped back the RPG mechanics.

[@MinecraftMartin]

That's exactly why I don't buy / play games like Dragon's Dogma 2 right when they release. If I have expectations and am struggling to put them down, I'll let the reviews come out. Watch the usual hate pour out of all the angry gamers who couldn't wait for reviews (thank you angry gamers :P). My expectations will be tempered. Boot up the game and have a blast because I'm not waiting for my mind to be blown, I can just focus on the game in front of me.

[@levantine1978]

@@MinecraftMartin This is great advice. I try to game about 6 months behind the curve, for the most part. It allows me to avoid hype cycles and rocky launches.

[@radeksilar543]

And some tip for next expectations revealed tomorow: What will Warhorse show, sequel Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 or different game, connected to first game or separated. No idea what will be next, and I do not want to have any expectation, except that final product would be breathtaking like original game. (Expectation of free roleplay game is bullshit, not in every game you have to play as your own character, but for already existing one without your choise)

[@cbake52]

​​@@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968 Mass Effect 2 was incredible, I played that first and enjoyed it so much I played mass effect 1 then replayed the second after for the load data and knowing how I wanted the story to go. I think that a lot of sequels made for niche genres like CRPGs are made by people who play those games so sequels tend to be better than the first like baldurs gate, pillars of eternity and so forth.

[@rmdmariscal1899]

Tyranny was my first crpg. Man what a game! I wish they could make a sequel or even a prequel.

[@vyxzuw768]

Or just finish the game.

[@simoncharlton3426]

This is a great discussion. I had a similar conversation with my friend regarding Cyberpunk, as I had been loving it, whereas he had somewhat rushed through it by just doing the main story and dropping the game. It certainly isn't black and white, but there is always something to enjoy or criticize when it comes to expanding on the formula or playing it safe in some areas. Thanks for offering a insightful glance from your perspective. :)

[@JoshuaKeithYoung]

I watched this last night, and these concepts about change and how resistance is inevitable is applicable to so much more than just video games. Stuck in my head all day. Thanks for you work!

[@spacesui-t]

The biggest takeaway from this video is that you never played Nier Automata and should rectify this mistake. Go in blind.

[@tobiastheblueman]

Hell yes, brother! Thanks for teaching me something new. I've never heard of Hedonic Adaptation before & it's a very intriguing phenomenon. Can't thank you enough for your vids, Mort! These types are some of my favorite 😊

[@terrywong7677]

I like videos like this! You have so much experience and are so wise when it comes to this stuff, would love to see more

[@kaidorade1317]

After DD2 I’ve learned to keep my excitement/expectations low when it comes to sequels. Life is already disappointing and having sequels I look forward to fall into the same category is very crushing imo

[@Syaniiti]

Getting overhyped for anything is not good, that's why modern trailers are great since they make everything look like shit. Then again I haven't seen DD2 trailer but the game is pretty much exactly as I expected (with simplified gear unfortunately).

[@jrsomethingnumbers9704]

Sometimes though stuff like Armored Core 6 releases and it keeps your hope up for sequels lol

[@eirsilvermoon4911]

In the same boat, i go with the attitude its probably going to suck....then i get called a hater because i downplay everything xD Worst thing about it, 80% of the times im right...

[@ThomasPaine01]

Solid points, good reasoning, great video.

[@rubenhoelz1464]

Great video that brings up interesting points/ideas!

[@EastyyBlogspot]

Tbh if there is a Kingdom come deliverance 2 i really hope they take all they have learned from the first game.....as for a first game it was a great first attempt but have to say i do expectations for the sequel

[@tortolia_23]

I’ve found that some of my favorite RPG franchises - Final Fantasy, Shin Megami Tensei, and SaGa - avoid a lot of this inherently due to mostly opting out of the sequel treadmill. They’re all long running franchises with a number of different entries, but in many cases have limited how often they’re doing direct sequels (which invite that expectations crisis Mort mentions) in favor instead of treating each entry as largely unique. They fall under the same umbrella due to things like recurring design aspects, monsters, motifs and the like, but are otherwise just standing apart under a very broad umbrella. As a result, while there’s always going to be those discussions about the older games being better, or the new ones solving problems that other titles had, it’s less clearcut as a result and folks tend to just be happier being able to carve out their own little part of that niche to latch onto. I’d honestly be curious what Mort thought of the upcoming SaGa Emerald Beyond, which feels like they’re going for almost a giant melting pot of SaGa Greatest Hits in terms of design, but going for the 100% would probably be an odyssey to say the least based on what the developers have said and looking at what SaGa Scarlet Grace did (which seems the closest analogue here).

[@shizeeque]

as a Mortal Kombat fan since 1998 I can relate to this completely. Despite the fact Mortal Kombat II (1994) is the definitive game of the franchise to me even today, my favourite of them all is Mortal Kombat XL. And it makes me super sad seeing the state of the franchise today. Great video!

[@eddienash4400]

always appreciate your insights Mortym. Keep doing good bud.

[@randyb4191]

Morning mortim

[@Adam-xp5nm]

Your discussion of dragon age (also a fan!) Reminded me of Tomb Raider. Obviously not an RPG, but the franchise has consistently had this problem of falling into similar patterns rather than innovating with each new release. The innovation has largely been when the franchise has changed hands or undergone a reboot. As such, the fan base is now fragmented into 3 (Classic Era - 1996-2003, Legend Era 2006-2008, Survivor Era 2013-2018). The character, backstory, gameplay and overall focus of each era is so radically different that it's now nigh impossible to please everyone with their next installment now that the Survivor arc has wrapped up.

[@Somebody374-bv8cd]

Your video reminds me of how in the music industry whenever an artist decides to do something different from what they usually do for whatever reason (maybe simply because they're tried of making the same music all the time) their fans start being outraged and calling them sellouts/etc.

[@epsiloneka3612]

0:45 It's funny. I appreciate you for introducing me to Tyranny, yet at the same time, I resent you because now I'm eagerly awaiting a sequel to a story that seemed destined for continuation, but unfortunately, it may never come to fruition.

[@toniviskari417]

Excellent analysis and I agree with a lot of what was said here. As an addition from my end, not only do I think the Dragon Series is an excellent example of this, I also feel it and the Mass Effect series had another additonal element that complicated the sequel analysis there. When those dividing sequels came out, and I saw the following happen in real time, people critical of the sequels started contributing gameplay mechanics and narrative dynamics to the prior games that weren't there. And that isn't even meant as a subjective opinion, but that developers themselves came out to those dispel those claims to no avail, receiving further attacks in the process. That created this absolutely wild environment for discussion as it wasn't that opinions varied on the sequel, but there wasn't really even agreement on what where the actual foundations they were build on and should be judged by. Additionally, that further impacted the response to Dragon Age Inquisition in an odd way as the publicly expressed perceptions of both that and DA2 shifted almost in unison, just to different directions.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Stupid EA they should've just let Bioware call it Dragon Age: Exodus instead of Dragon Age 2. Putting the two there meant people expected a direct sequel, I certainly did and while I never hated it like so many at the time did I definitely felt a little let down because of it. Looking back at it with a critical eye I think the vast majority of it's problems can be attributed to EA and it's insane short development mandate.

[@toniviskari417]

@@CrazyxEnigma Completely agreed on both criticisms of EA there. It's also weird to realize that even the first Dragon Age game wasn't Dragon Age, it was Dragon Age Origins. So to just put that 2 there was odd. However the bigger issue is that staggeringly short developmental cycle they gave to the game. Like usually I don't find 'release the game when it is ready' a compelling argument as they have to be released sometime, but DA2 had a dev cycle of 10-14 months depending how you count it. Which is absolutely insane. It also makes me sad as if they achieved that in that short of a time, just imagine if they had had another 12 months. Like it is the only game where when listening David Gaider's interviews, the central writer for several BW games, he sounds wistful about what they could have done.

[@aggieking87]

"Hedonic adaptation" My may droppin some big words for 7am 😛 Thanks for the video as always

[@Aggrofool]

That is some Noah Gervais level wordsmithing

[@obake6290]

@@spellandshield Maybe so, but I've not heard either of these terms. Could just be me being ignorant, but those terms never come up as a consumer.

[@ForTheLaughingGod]

I really do hope this sparks a trend online. So many hobby channels just crap on the thing we supposedly all like and I really think if more people had this kind of mindset we would be in a healthier place

[@bakuiel1901]

I appreciate your thoughts on this, personally I enjoy games that are basically rehashes but with new stories. I could play more Pathfinder games with no second mode, or Might and Magic games that are like Swords of Xeen, or if Mass effect had stayed as more RPGs like 1. I know that Devs get bored and other people don't want these rehashed game engines but I thrive in the comfort of it.

[@mathieuguillet4036]

Excellent points overall.

[@coconutologist]

Thanks for the video. That's a good point. Either it will be more of the same, and thus boring, or it will be too distinct, and thus unfamiliar to what you like. Onward to 400k. All glory to the algorithm.

[@devinwhitehead3214]

It's a balancing act. You don't want to change to frequently, but you don't want to be stagnant either. Making small, subtle changes that most won't even notice is how you want to tackle it.

[@gemodemplay415]

Honestly, I feel like these discussions happen only when a sequel is bad and makes you think about all these things. I believe if a sequel is good then that is it, it's great and we do not think about these topics at all. You only question things and think about things when something is not done right.

[@alexscofield3810]

I hope this video does well for you! I like that you do both opinion pieces and reviews. It helps add context to your reviews and these are fun n quick

[@MisterEnsayne]

I personally really enjoy these editorial-type videos. Even though I know the rights are wild, I want a new Shadowrun game, any genre.

[@marcelsansalone3829]

Dorian my Goat

[@YetiCoolBrother]

This whole video is why I will always have the utmost respect for Square Enix & the Final Fantasy series for being around and relevant for all this time. I can not think of another dev (of anything not just games) that chooses to drop almost everything to do with a previous successful entry in a series & "re-invent the wheel" each time out; they're not all bangers but they have hit more often than they've missed and that is MASSIVELY impressive IMO.

[@nonexistent4177]

For Baldur's Gate, I can say that I understand where some people are coming from. I know I liked Baldur's Gate 3, but I couldn't tell you anything about it either. I just know you had 3 baddies and one big bad, and a twist with a certain "person?" that helps you throughout the game, though it was pretty obvious from the start, so not really that much if a twist. Meanwhile, I can name every character in BG1, and BG2, simply cause they were that memorable.

[@grey_wulf]

Hi Mortym! As a huge fan of Arcanum, I am very interested in how New Arc Line turns out. Cautiously optimistic.

[@jweare333]

For me when I approach a creative work, I try to always evaluate that work on its own merits. It’s so hard going from book to movie/show or vice versa. Sequels are hard because of expectations. Ultimately, I try to see if I have fun. I have certainly bought games simply because they were a sequel and found that I didn’t care for them very much. I try to do that less these days, but these days I have so many games to play that I can wait for a couple thoughtful reviews to see if it’s something that sounds like a game I want to play. At this point in my “play queue“ I just don’t have a lot of room for Insta buying sequels for the sake of them being sequels.

[@javiernovoa8756]

Assassins Creed really runs the gamet of the facets you described in the video. One of my favorite all time franchises.

[@finnmarr-heenan2397]

In my mind there are two types of sequal , reinventing the wheel adding in whole new elements and mechanics , then their is the school of refine what you have and expand all the exsisting elements . In my mind super Mario world is one of the most perfect sequels , it refined and expanded everything great about Mario bro’s 3 while adding new elements like yoshi and the cape,

[@beccangavin]

I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this subject. I found myself on a Reddit thread recently where people were discussing their preferences regarding the characterization of Shepherd in the Mass Effect trilogy versus the characterization of Ryder in Andromeda and I can say for certain that their expectations colored their perception of Ryder. I think Andromeda ended up with too much busy work in it, but it did actually address a bunch of the stuff that I thought was kind of…well…silly about the Mass Effect trilogy. Namely, everyone in the universe constantly tells Shepherd that they are amazing and Shepherd has zero character development. It’s also not possible to role play as anything but a bad@ss. The changes didn’t sit well with some of the people playing Andromeda because they expected to be the most important and well respected person in the universe and couldn’t do it as a 22 year old that got their job through nepotism. Even if they chose serious answers all the time, nobody was talking the nepobaby seriously. What’s funny is I’m not having the same experience. My Ryder is, according to her psych evaluation, “empathetic” and “poised under pressure”. The people around her find that inspiring. She is also sometimes impetuous, but hey that’s youth. That’s a lot more depth than paragon or renegade Shepherd had available. Being honest, I got annoyed with Shepherd being perfect all the time and had her down drinks whenever possible in Mass Effect 2 so I could pretend the pressure was simmering under the surface and she needed an outlet. Well that was a lot more words than I had intended for my algorithm comment. I love you work btw :)

[@sodapopinksi667]

This video reads like a post from truegaming or patientgamers on Reddit lol

[@toniviskari417]

While it is a game series that is outside the genres touched on this channel, having just finished, like literally yesterday, Horizon Forbidden West, to me that game is one of the most fascinating examples of sequel making in a long while. It also really made me rethink how, for me, thinking on the preceding game can cloud your view about what the sequel is really about. I absolutely love Horizon Zero Dawn with, for me, that experience of learning what happened in the past and why the world is as it is is still one of my all time greatest gaming experiences. Thus, when I was playing Horizon Forbidden West, during the first third or so of the game, I found myself reflecting that as fun as it was, and I was genuinely enjoying the game, the lack of that central fantastic mystery of the first game did diminish it a bit. However, then it struck me that not only did HFW not only try not to repeat that solve the mystery approach, a bit to its own detriment actually, but it had completely changed the thematic approach to the story told in that world. With the first game, both the main quest and a lot of the side quests were about the sins of the past, about the burdens of the actions made by others. Which makes sense considering that it is about the mysteries of the past. In the sequel, however, the quests is very much about either drawing inspiration from the past to face the future or being able to let go of what you were in order to strive to be something better. Hell, writing this, I realized that even the main antagonists in the game are defined by not only being chained by the past, but actively clutching to what was and having that drive their decisions. I still think personally that the first game was a bit better, partially because the ambition of the second game makes it a bit scattered, but still think that HFW is a flawed masterpiece, for me at least, and continue to be incredibly excited to see how they finish their grand story. More importantly, having had that revelation, it allowed me to appreciate the game for what it was trying to be instead of judging by a standard that didn't fit it.

[@vacuseal]

I would imagine the rising cost of development for major releases is a large contributor to playing it safe with sequels. Nobody will approve the project unless they feel it will sell well and make a profit. So, I would guess it is more attractive to go with what worked before rather than take a risk on something new and experimental.

[@jonwelly]

Thanks for the lovely video, as an amateur gamer it’s nice to hear from a professionals thoughts

[@FL-uj7cs]

I'd love to hear what you'd want from some upcoming sequels like Bioshock or Fable.

[@classycasual3910]

I love this channel and can't wait for Mort 2 to come out!!

[@dempa3]

These discussion videos are my favorites. I think that a disappointing sequel isn't the end of the world. There are more games to play, than I have time. I can simply play something else if I prefer.

[@SgtWilko1979]

As someone who has been pretty vocal about how worried I am about Dragon Age Inquisition, I agree with a lot of what you say here (and of what you said in another vid about how DA:I wasn't as far from DA:O as some people like to make out) but to me a sequel has a duty to FEEL like a sequel. I am a huge old school CRPG fan like many of my generation, I go on and on about Planescape Torment or Arcanum enough that many nephew smiles and nods through most of it. That said I personally loved Fallout 3, it was a sequel a long time after the prior game and few could have expected it to be the same, especially in the games industry at the time, but Bethesda, in my opinion, captured the FEEL of Fallout and I felt like I was playing a game in that universe (certainly more so than the Brotherhood of Steel ARPG). I loved DA:O but I still enjoyed DA2 even if it was just Mass Effect with swords and a DA skin, I liked Mass Effect (even ME3) and the world looked and felt like part of the DA universe. [edit]Veilguard has changed it's art style significantly to a more stylised look and the combat seems (from what we've seen) to have stripped out the last of anything tactical. I want to like it as it's continuing this universe, but it looks like it's finally lost the gameplay AND the feel of what brought me to the franchise. Final Fantasy is my prime example, FF16 may be a GOOD fast paced combo heavy action game with light RPG elements, but it's just gone a step too far for me. FF1-10 and 13 had different systems but essentially a very similar combat style that was the thing that made it Final Fantasy considering the game worlds were different each time.

[@mortirn7332]

I like many of your other videos but i really love this one

[@Notsram77]

I appreciate you and your approach. Making stuff is hard, and is to be commended. What gets made will be, by definition, not for everyone. Enjoy what you can, and don't spend time hand wringing over stuff you don't.

[@chanm01]

One thing I absolutely hate about the sequel driven nature of modern AAA games development is how it incentives late comers to use someone else's creative property as a canvas for their own work. I get it, modern video games aren't an auteur medium, but there's a difference between building upon a legacy and just wanting so use someone else's IP to dress up your own ideas. I can't define exactly what that distinction is, but it's like when someone makes your favorite dish but they make a weird creative substitution of the wrong ingredient. You might not be able to say exactly what's wrong with it, but you know it's off.

[@oguzcanoguz5977]

I think if you look broadly, there might not be an universal solution, but if you separate games into categories, I think the solutions become more apparent, at least in different aspects. Usually, if a game initially comes out and becomes loved, the second game is fairly easy to make. Narratively, if you left the ending open for continuation, then you can just continue the journey with bigger stakes. If not, you can do what divinity original sin 2 did and just tell a story in the same universe. Mechanically, these games usually have some aspects people would love but would be unpolished, so you can just use the first game as feedback to remove or improve the parts that did not work while keeping and even expanding on the parts that did work. If the game was a second game that already polished the first one though, you have two choices. If the game is popular enough and people want more of the same thing, just expanding horizontally and telling a different story is usually enough for a sequel. If the game is stuck however, you need to break an aspect and remake it, otherwise it will stay stuck forever. This is how I feel it is with Baldurs Gate 3, as a sequel to both Baldurs Gate 2 and Divinity Original Sin 2. They changed the mechanical formula to be completely turn based, which gave you a lot more control as to moment to moment gameplay and was closer to TTRPG. It did alianate some people, but I think it was worth it overall. As a sequal to Divinity Original Sin 2 mechanically, the way everything was voice acted and how different decisions played was a great improvement to the overall formula. If they were to make a DOS3, just like DOS2 but with a fully voice acted story, I would be completely satisfied with it.

[@borat656]

I think one thing that really makes a difference is whether or not the new version of the game feels in line with what the developer actually wants, or if there's a publisher breathing down their throat. I kinda dislike blaming the publisher every time, but in the case of Dragon Age, I think EA's influence on the series IS the reason for a lot of those changes. If Bioware actually believed the new direction was better for the series, I think it would have taken on a different manifestation, which would have been much less contentious. Obviously we will never know, but that's my take.

[@HeWhoShams]

DA Origins and DA2 were way better than DAI. I played DA2 recently, and realized, how much I actually enjoyed it

[@RJ-cq8dd]

In movies sequels rarely are any good. But in games they often perfect the formula the second time. Uncharted 2, Abes exoddus, Street fighter 2, Skate 2, Portal 2, Dirt 2 Tekken 2, Tomb raider 2 to name a few.

[@galotta8475]

You can't always reinvent the wheel, but you can still put pretty rims (e. g.: Baldur's Gate Series, Dragon Age Series, Realms of Arcania Series, Ultima Series, Anno Series,...)

[@dom2666]

I’ll never forget booting Dragon Age 2 for the first time and realized they used the same maps over and over and I was FURIOUS.

[@colbymclemore7642]

Your voice has the oddest calming effect on me 😂

[@felipehsmartins]

There are two types of changes to gameplay: Vertical Change: Upgrade/Evolution - Think of the transition from combat in Divinity: Original Sin 1 to combat in Divinity: Original Sin 2. Downgrade/Simplification - Compare the combat in Dragon Age: Inquisition to that in Dragon Age: Origins. Horizontal Change: Complete Sidestep - Consider the shift from Pillars of Eternity to Avowed. Spiritual Evolution - Reflect on the progression from Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 to Baldur's Gate 3, from Real Time with Pause to Turn-Based D&D. The only change I dislike is simplification. It's hard to argue that Dragon Age: Inquisition wouldn't be a better game with a polished and improved version of the combat mechanics from Dragon Age: Origins.

[@MemeSupreme_]

What were some of the downgrades in the combat between Origins and Inquisition? It's been a while since I played either of them.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

They tried to hybridize the tactical pausing ability of Origins and the more action oriented 2 and it just didn't work. Worst thing is the AI became stupid no more tactics scripting which is a great loss imo a shame only DAO, DA2 and FF12 used this feature.

[@felipehsmartins]

@@GabrielPassarelliG Perhaps 'downgrade' is too pejorative, indeed. 'Simplification' is a better term. I agree that DAI improves some aspects over DAO. But, in my sincere opinion, a enhanced and refined version of DAO's combat would be better than the simplification of DAI. Think about Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2. The second one is everything I liked about the first one, but better (combat wise). Something like that is what I would like for DAI.

[@christopherr.561]

Enjoyed this one.

[@OldMusicFan83]

Excellent video, Mort.

[@TechnoLawyer]

I’ve never quite understood the toxic fandom so present in media. Don’t like the sequel? It isn’t what you wanted? Ok, don’t play it, no need to be such a neckbeard and try to ruin the fun of those who do enjoy it. I think that devs need to manage expectations. If the sequel is basically more of the same - which is totally fine in many cases - just tell us. “Loved DragonassSlayer? You’ll love DragonassSlayer 2 as we take the gameplay of the first and continue the story to find out what happens after the dragon loses its ass”. You’re never going to please everyone. Not much point in trying. Best is just to be honest and transparent, manage expectations, don’t release garbage, and use early release to iron out bugs. And gaming isn’t even the worst one for toxic fans. Movies / TV are just brutal.

[@andycanoy863]

My thinking on sequels may sound basic but when it comes to sequels, all I want in the end is a good game. I can't always expect a sequel to be better than its predecessor. At bare minimum, it should be fun to play. Tweaks and new additions are fine as long as it doesn't compromise the gameplay and keeps the spirit of what made a franchise fun to begin with. We've been jaded by so many releases from companies which promised major things to a game that they fail to achieve many of them.

[@valacarno]

Very wholesome. Thank you. 🥰👍

[@AJCrowley0153]

IIRC Bethesda outbid Troika for Fallout. So NV would've existed without FO3, just in another form and not on Bethesda's engine

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Troika went bankrupt not long after. Maybe they would've managed to stay afloat by finding an investor for a Fallout pitch, who knows. But Bethesda had already been making a Fallout game for several years before they bought the IP they had paid to use the license from Interplay around 2002/03 or so.

[@KoongYe]

Still my golden standard of a sequel done right is Portal 2. Portal 2 brought everything that made Portal 1 great and improved on every aespect, and then some. Most recent example would be Talos Principle 2 which I'd say has pulled a Portal 2.

[@wombat4191]

Speaking of sequels, Henry's come to see us!

[@williamamos8296]

Just curious what are your favorite mods to games?

[@dependent-ability8631]

another question would be what are your favorite games to mod

[@samantha_t99]

Enderal for Skyrim, Convergence for Dark Souls 3, Tekkit Classic for Minecraft.

[@MortismalGaming]

I'm not really partial to any mods unless they're required to get a game to run

[@King_Lelouch]

To be honest, I always try to keep my expectations very low when sequels are announced/released so I don't get too disappointed because I know it likely won't replicate the feeling I got the first time I experienced it I've probably only got that experience from sequels just a couple of times, like God of War 1 and 2 Great video as usual Mortem

[@King_Lelouch]

@@miguelbranquinho7235 that is typically true aye

[@jinchoung]

i think i can forgive anything if it seems like someone CARED… as opposed to just being a cash grab. and you really can tell one from the other. it's the difference between another far cry or call of duty vs baldur's gate 3. if there is a VISION that's being pursued, i think there's value in it whether i think the vision itself is what it should have been. basically, when a franchise is basically releasing annually, that's when i think they've lost the plot.

[@Quecojo]

Yeah, I can understand your points. My biggest fear of this is how Homeworld 3 will turn out…

[@Dioevileye]

Great video.

[@Dar4real]

Good morning Mortim. This is a beautiful video from you as always. I haven't gotten to play DD2 yet and I'm still playing the 1st game. Anyway my take is that we probably set our expectations for DD2 so high that every little mistake or glitch in the game hurts. Dunno how I'll feel when I actually play it.

[@millesabords1654]

Now our expectations in games are like our expectations in life : useful, but genuinely narrow. If you expect your next TV serie, your next song/album from your prefered artist, or hey, your next president (!), your next girlfriend (!) to be exactly this and that and click all the boxes, after a (short) while they will appear to not fit in your scheme, because it's not just about a green mark in every square. Very wise decision not to go on with Baldur's Gate 4, btw

[@rachaelpracht]

The game that falls into this condition for me that I loved, but people hated, is mass effect Andromeda. I played the trilogy, and then I played Andromeda afterwards, and I loved it just as much as the trilogy.

[@abraxis59]

I agree with everything you said and I think I can even add to it. In addition to everything you mentioned, there is the added problem of cognitive dissonance and nostalgic self deception. Ubisoft is an excellent example of both (as well as the fracturing you mentioned). Gamers and critics alike SAY they don't like the formulaic open worlds or games that are too long because of filler and I believe they believe that sincerely. However, the fact is that these games have ALL done extremely well no matter how many they make. I think this is just a bit of cognitive dissonance because these criticisms are valid and can be frustrating, but at the same time it is fun to just go to the place, fight the guys, get the reward, clear off the marker and move to the next (I am guilty as charged BTW). Despite this, when the community was a clamoring for a return to its roots, Ubisoft tried to accommodate that fracture and ran into another problem: nostalgic self deception. If you really played and analyzed their older games, they are not as consistent in their themes and mechanics as nostalgia makes them seem. So, what really makes the original games what they were. Some of it is simple - a return to the original protagonist and antagonist groups for the story, but the rest is really fuzzy. One hit kills? More mechanically difficult wall climbing? Crowd camouflage? These mechanics did appear in the older games, but not every older game. So, what everyone remembers the original series to be will, right from the start, be very different. As a result of all of this, Ubisoft had to literally segment what they are doing into three major categories to move ahead, back, and stand still at the same time (nostalgic shorter games, open world doozies, and the truly innovative experiments). I do want to make it clear that nothing I have said is meant at all to be a criticism of anyone experiencing these feelings or fitting into any of these categories as we ALL do at one point or another, but I find it constructive to really think about what it is that draws me to a game and what I have ended up happy with and not happy with. Channels like this combined with this introspection has helped me to steer clear of SOME of the bad choices I could have made but you still have to take some chances to win in the end 😀

[@XYZ-em5vu]

Fallout: New Vegas is actually an adaptation of an unreleased Fallout (3?) game by Interplay codenamed 'Van Buuren'. The key factions of the plot are more or less taken directly from there.

[@lucakoselj7123]

Watch dogs is a good example for this. All three games are totally different. Theres this feeling that the developers tried to acknowledge the criticism of each game in its sequel but went too far in the opposite direction. Which is quite sad, because, for me at least, the first one was the best game with the most interesting setting.

[@erikskoog8415]

Good show sir

[@Lemurion287]

For me, the biggest one is still Fallout; not Fallout 3 to New Vegas, but Fallout 2 to Fallout 3. They changed an Isometric RPG, which I love, to a first-person ARPG, which I am quite a bit less fond of, to the point I played Fallout 1 on release, but didn't bother with any of the Bethesda Fallouts until after 2020. BG3 was very different from the originals (when it was announced I wanted something more like Pathfinder Kingmaker) but it's at least still a party based RPG and with a mod to give the correct number of characters I love it.

[@NickaLah]

As a diehard Dragon Age fan I'm really trying to keep my expectations and hype in check for the next game. That said I am one of the few that liked DAO and DAI equally, so maybe I'm not quite so picky? I did play through DA2 once and actually loved a lot of elements like the narrative and characters, despite the obvious faults that game has, but it's never been enough to replay it like I have most other RPGs. Beyond all that, I'm just too aware of all the shenanigans going on at Bioware, whether it be EA's influence on them or not, so that more than anything really helps keep my expectations low. I also adore BG3, and I'm ready to let go of Dragon Age if DA:D bombs. At least there's hope within Larian and I still hold onto some tiny bit of hope that another company somehow gets the rights to Dragon Age and brings it back to it's old glory. BUT, like usual I'm getting ahead of myself, we have to see how DA:D turns out to begin with.

[@Cowbell_Hero]

There are however objectively universal wrong steps for a squeal, usually powered by greed, see OW2 and everything it does with monetization. But I agree on the overall point made, I for example heavily dislike random engagement from old final fantasy games, yet some argue that its a staple of the series - or the combat.

[@alexandrejesus8709]

Tyranny is my number 1 game for a continuation for me

[@rofalmatt]

fracture the fan base = ANYTHING DISNEY TOUCHES!!!!

[@eleven2435]

Cool topics! I think a game franchise should not be changed too much on the game mechanics, story progression. For example: DOW 2 should have been released as a DOW spin-off and not as a sequel. I prefer DOW 2 over DOW, but it has a very different game mechanic.

[@Tigerbro6]

Mortym you're such a nice guy with great opinions about games. makes me wanna start a channel too

[@RegularEverydayNormalGuy]

I think that when a developer still has something to share about a game they usually can make something I will appreciate, but more often than not, what I see is just shareholders that push a new release to capitalize on fame, in which case we get games that have nothing exiting about them.

[@Firenutz]

Mort, would you consider playing/reviewing The Bard’s Tale series? I had the original on floppy for my Apple IIe back in 1996. Yep, I’m that old! I disappeared for weeks into that game and loved it, but I never played any of the sequels or modern remakes. Still, that first slow, buggy, monochromatic RPG opened the doors to me for what became a four-decade love affair with RPGs. Hope I get another four decades!

[@MortismalGaming]

Maybe at some point, but it wont be soon

[@ZlothZloth]

An important corollary to this: when you're reading/watching reviews, remember that the reviewer is probably hungrier for originality than you are.

[@Jkend199]

Not that my opinion matters here but I am going to say my piece anyway. What I want in a sequel is refinement... What I want is for the developers to look at the game that they are attempting to make a sequel for and say to themselves, what did this game do right. Did it have good character creation, good character progression, a good loot system, what did the game do right. I want those elements to be kept, maybe expanded on. Then I want them to look at what did the game do badly, maybe questing or exploration or dialogue or whatever and I want those systems either overhauled or scrapped and completely redone. Let me give you an example of a sequel I FUCKING HATE. Front mission evolved. If you know anything about the Front Mission series, you know that the entries that made Front Mission popular were turn based tactical RPG's. Front Mission Evolved scrapped that and became A BAD ARMORED CORE CLONE. No one who loved Front Mission wanted that... and no one who loves Armored Core is going to play an inferior Armored Core clone... This was a terrible decision... maybe Front Mission Evolved isn't a terrible game, but it's not a game that appeals to the Front Mission audience, and frankly it's not good enough to compete with Armored Core. What is the value of an existing IP... I would argue that the Value of an existing IP is that you have a built-in audience (you don't have to build a new audience, the guy who created the IP already did it for you) All you have to do is create a game that appeals to the built in audience... You know what the built in audience for Front Mission wanted... ANOTHER FUCKING TACTICAL TURN BASED RPG... Let me put it another way. You're an Armored Core fan... FromSoftware just announced that Armored Core 7 is a going to be a turn based tactical RPG, are you still interested... I didn't think so... CUZ THAT IS NOT WHAT ARMORED CORE FANS WANT FROM AN ARMORED CORE GAME. Sequels should be refinements of everything the predecessor did well and reworking of the things it did poorly... Not Complete reinventions of the entire game. Now if you wanna do a SPINOFF of Front Mission, and make the spinoff say a first-person shooter, ok, I am fine with that. Maybe if it actually does well then you can make more FPS in the Front Mission IP, but the MAIN LINE GAMES IN THE FRONT MISSION SERIES MUST BE TACTICAL TURN BASED RPG'S.

[@Syaniiti]

Fallout 3 existing is not a requirement for New Vegas existing, Van Buren was a thing way before Bethesda bought the IP.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Not as the New Vegas we got. I don't even remember who else was trying to buy the IP apart from Troika and they died not long after that.

[@Syaniiti]

@@CrazyxEnigma And if Troika had gotten it we'd have a good fallout 3.

[@glinteastwood]

Enjoyed this very much. Hope it does well for ya

[@mhjmstultiens]

I believe we need to get over the fact that every game needs to fit the needs of every gamer. That's not the case and can never be. Expectations, past experiences *and* preferences vary to such an individual degree there's no "one size fits it all". As for sequels: IMHO, besides bringing more money in for the franchise, story wise there's no reason for many of them to exist. These "forced" games are often the weakest sequels to be honest. The harsh truth: I know gamers often crave for more content (being addicted as we are), but sometimes you just got to give your heroes the rest they deserve.

[@FruitsBootG]

Dmc 5 is probably one of the best/successful sequels I can think of in recent years. There was a decade between the original 4's release and 5 so there was a decades worth of expectations and anticipation. And then 5 blew all expectations out of the water. So... it was massive disappointment when Dragon's dogma 2 turned out the way it did, especially considering that Dmc and Dragon's dogma was directed by the same person. I have a feeling that Dragon's dogma 2 got rushed and that's why it turned out the way it did, but we'll never know. I just hope that any sort of update or DLC will let it become just as good or better than DD:DA

[@jetdathreat]

So many differing opinions on change, but one thing remains true. War, war never changes!

[@richard_n]

A sequel should always be easier than starting a new game. In the sequel you basically just have to improve on the bad parts of the original and it will do well.

[@OysteinS]

H A D E S 2 that is all sorry for the digression, just wanted to share my excitement about the technical test and upcoming early access. Looks like it sticks quite closely to the formula of the first game while being the studios first sequel.