Most important Cable in a Hifi system?

Find me a cable, Mabel!
Where did I put that cord, Gord?
Gramps, get your hands off my amps!
Take that magic crystal off my dac, Jack!
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[@IBuildIt]

Subtext: at what level do you stop worrying about the quality of the parts and components that make up a sound system? Do you need an atomic analysis of the copper used in the circuit board? Do you need to know the exact chemical composition of the plastic used for insulation on the wires? Do you need to have the performance specs for stranded versus solid wire when used to connect drivers to a crossover? It's this kind of granular thinking and focus on relatively insignificant factors that comes from a lack of real experience and understanding of how this stuff actually works. And it's the perfect thin edge of the wedge for manufacturers to use and take advantage of when selling products for many times what they are really worth. They are building doubt into your thinking (with the assistance of those who are already indoctrinated) and using that doubt to sell their overpriced and overhyped products.

[@Aswaguespack]

There are some places where you certainly don’t want to “skimp” in choosing quality parts in any build of any consumer electronic devices. Parts matter.

[@IBuildIt]

Parts do matter, but not to the degree that most audiophile think they do. For example, most have absurd ideas about opamps and think they do not belong in highend gear. When asked, they can't give any real (based on fact) reasons why that is, and are hesitant to say that their bias originates from what they heard from other audiophiles.

[@vonantero9458]

@@Aswaguespack The thing to remember is, there is a difference in quality and snake oil. For example, you can buy quality crossover parts for few bucks, yet we see some $500 and up "upgrades" that change absolutely nothing.

[@charlespablo1414]

Thank you Sir for your in-depth analysis. The problem starts when we use music to listen to the hardware.

[@BillRodgers2]

Good morning John, I will admit I know squat about sound systems as I’m deaf but as a electrician and heavy equipment mechanic for over 40 plus years I’d go on record saying the ground cable is the most important cable in any circuit/ system.

[@act.13.41]

Wise words, indeed!

[@Aswaguespack]

Very important indeed. Often overlooked, neglected and not used or even connected in many consumer electronics devices of all types.

[@LessTalkMoreDelicious]

Just like cars I guess. Bad grounds can cause all sorts of hidden and/or intermittent gremlins.

[@Aswaguespack]

@@LessTalkMoreDelicious very true and we are seeing some major auto makers using poor wiring harnesses either cheap insulation not suitable for high heat area and it’s a ticking time bomb waiting for a short to happen.

[@johnnydingo8680]

Is that so you can stay grounded while listening to the music 😊

[@IBuildIt]

Find me a cable, Mabel! Where did I put that cord, Gord? Gramps, get your hands off my amps! Take that magic crystal off my dac, Jack!

[@philliphugh3347]

the most important cable.... the power lead! 👍

[@GalaxyStranger01]

That's just toe-tappin'

[@Aswaguespack]

A good “hook” for a Paul Simon tune”. You’re a genius John!

[@jeffbaker8808]

From the song "Fifty Ways to Peeve My Buffer"?

[@Aswaguespack]

@@jeffbaker8808 😂

[@SKarlsson]

I like the Blue Jeans LC-1. I've used throughout my system for years. Made in Seattle, sturdy RCA cables from USA made Belden wire stock for sane audiophiles at a reasonable price.

[@yoyofargo]

stanley cups laid end to end to complete the circuit is the best cable

[@paulhirst3548]

"the lie that they are getting is the one they want to hear".......this is so true and is applicable to most of our society. Back to audio, if you really believe that you need "quality cables" it is easy to make them yourself for a fraction of what you will pay. Rather than reading claim after claim, buy an inexpensive set for $16, then make yourself a quality set for $10 and see if you can tell the difference. If you can, then use the set that sounds good.

[@IBuildIt]

Their doubt is the real demon. They've been programmed to believe that everything that goes into making something is equally important, and that includes the method of doing it. And since they are not renowned cable builders themselves, they can never make one that would be as perfect as the one they are trying to copy. Add to that that a lot of guys would have trouble making a cable, because they don't have the tools or minimal skill needed to do that.

[@scottjarvis5485]

Its amazing what your brain will convince you of if you want to believe it I reckon if you pretended to change cables in a listening demo people would hear a difference

[@jeffbaker8808]

At $16/cable or $160/cable...I must have about $50,000 worth of cables in the "someday, someone will need one of these" bucket. Just waiting for that day to be a hero...

[@daveg8htfadlibaudio250]

Hi John, back in 1973 I worked in the service department for a well known privately owned hi fi shop in Liverpool called Hardman radio, I also helped out in the sales department when they where busy and got to know all the reps from most of the companies the shop dealt with i.e. Kef, Harman kardon, Celestion, Tannoy etc. One day a new company turned up making and selling there own brand of interconnect cables (and yes they where very expensive) they where called QED, so I looked at the products and measured the resistance and capacitance of the whole range of the products and yes they where just same as all the much cheaper cables we stocked and sold from other manufacturers, so I ask the question, how can you charge so much more for your products and the MD of company ( QED ) said it's all in the name son it's quite easily done . 😀😀 In my opinion as you stated a good quality cable is just as good as any other, some of the cheap ones use copper coated crap to make cables this is not good, but the still the most critical thing to not do in your system is to change the cables from your record deck for some odd stuff that may be silly expensive but may be quite high in capacitive loading that will attenuate some of the HF from your expensive pick up cartridge the Bullshit factor always creeps into the hi fi world as you know. Keep up the good work John. Regards Dave Fletcher.

[@karlspencer2026]

Audio cables are considered to be low frequency low current carrying conductors. Well made quality connectors , and good flexible insulation are what is important . If you are sending them into space or they are being used in a vital military or aerospace application you may have some other requirements, but for everyday audio consumer grade material and good manufacturing practices is all that s needed.

[@davidbailey6350]

As my father-in-law told me once, There Is An A$$ For Every Seat…

[@99Duds]

I did not know the word Audiophile was a term that described quality, I thought it identified a person as a fan of Audio.

[@PappaBear_yt]

This is the greatest thing said on internet - and I don't mean cable-wise! I'm sharing. Thank you, John! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@josvanoorschot2958]

From a rational point of view totally true. Nevertheless when buying a streamer and connecting to the amp there was a significant sound difference with some RCA cables. I could not believe it but could tell the difference in a blinded test very easily. Better crossovers are made of quality parts is my understanding. And good design of course. Speakers with e.g. Jansen capacitors und such have better reviews. It is not all snake oil. Listening and being critical is what is relevant.

[@IBuildIt]

And yet there are exactly zero blind listening tests that conclusively demonstrate that these significant differences exist. Why is that? Think about it: if you are making cables to sell that you claim sound better than other ones, wouldn't you be running for all of the independent testing facilities to get the hard evidence for that? I mean, your sales would go through the roof if you could prove a real improvement and you'd have the added bonus of shutting up all of us cable deniers once and for all.

[@misinformationwithrandy]

Love the turning cut shots 🤣

[@kappandrew1]

You speak the truth. That’s all that needs said.

[@rainier939]

I love the videos that show the weirdness in the audio world. The cable thing can get you into the weeds when you start out. My experience with cables is that if you use USB use a double shielded one. Above that there isn't much to gain Power cables can make a tiny diverence in some very specific surcomstances. I could hear something in one part of one track consistantly other then that nothing changes, not better or worse just different enough to tell. There might be something there but it wasn't worth the hassle to me. Speaker cables, interconnets and any other cable is not worth anything more then the minimum you can spend to get your system up and running. Any dollar spend there can be used to improve the room which has 10000% more impact to the sound.

[@buka9330]

Well said. Unless the cable is atrocious there will be no difference. Tho I'm experimenting with differential connections to stop ground loops from messing with my signals hahahah. Definitely don't want to remove the mains earth connections as some manufacturers do. I'd like to be alive for a bit longer....

[@GalaxyStranger01]

You're absolutely right. My dad got scammed into buying a metric ton of Monster cables in the '80s. They sounded fine! So did the cheap, unshielded spool wire from Radio Shack. And don't get me started on what he did with CDs... When I get cables, I worry about gauge and how badly I need it insulated. Super cheap wires can break over time if you move them around much. But I get the gauge I need that's insulated on the off chance that I'll get interference from something else, especially if I'm running up the inside of the wall and over the ceiling in the attic. Other than that, the cheapest you can get your hands on the better really. Gold plated connectors are nice to have because they don't oxidize.

[@solitary200]

What did he do with the CD’s?!

[@GalaxyStranger01]

@@solitary200 Audiophiliac Magazine told him to take a green sharpie to the edges of the CD. Some bullshit about reigning in the laser that improved sound quality...

[@PappaBear_yt]

@@GalaxyStranger01 I remember this myth, I had a friend who also did it back then. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@MrFrobbo]

Touching on psychology again, it's also down to status...they can brag. This evolved mechanism can be seen all around us, from owning a Tesla to incredibly expensive holiday destinations, kitchens, houses, through to designer handbags and shoes ...the list goes on.

[@normanbott]

BS Audio - I love it! I used to watch Paul McGowan's channel once, then it seemed to descend into rambling anecdotes and a hard sell, so I stopped. Amir of Audio Science Review has interesting stuff to say about PS Audio products.

[@mkshffr4936]

Yep, he seems to be focused on panning things he doesn't sell.

[@MJHiteshew]

Amir isn’t innocent either. That crowd takes the approach that you must only use what the ear cannot possibly discern. Their position on noise floor and other unhearable yet measurable differences is ludicrous. One group claims to hear things that can’t be measured, the other things that can be measured but not heard. The truth is out there, somewhere in the middle.

[@richardmarkham8369]

Placebo effect is extremely powerful. As long as the connectors make a resonably good contact and the soldering inside is ok, phono leads are all the same. Likewise optical leads. Speaker cables need a little bit of current carrying capacity bt that's all. I would say going as short as possible in all cases is not a bad thing. As is not coiling up overly long leads. Only exceptions might be very cheap chinese leads that don't use copper! Many electronic components don't use copper leads anymore. They use tinned steel.

[@ThePhilGrimm]

Out of sight, out of mind. Amen to that!

[@showtimebabies]

great thumbnail

[@egis7908]

John, this video reminds of a quote from Winston Churchill “ In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies." Does not the same sentiment apply to cables and cable manufacturers? Audio/hifi customers can understand the message or “buy” into the lies.

[@aydngulgun8936]

Most important part of a system is the one which improvement, improves the system performance the most. That is not a music question. Also in my humble opinion, less then 1 dollar means bad cable, around 5 dollar 'meh' cable, around 10 dollar is a good cable and around 20 is damn good cable after that snake oil. (for few feet of interconnect or speaker cable)

[@user-sr9ht4qg8m]

Just plug the speaker directly into the wall, problem solved, no loss in the signal path. Just good ol 60 hz 😂

[@JimDockrellWatertone]

The return of the Monster cable myth.

[@mlo5083]

Hi John, I am getting into these baffle speakers after watching lots of You-tube videos and separated the pro's from the wannabees as much as I could. Hence my question for you, a pro. I listened to Danny at GR-Research and yourself. Could you make a more detailed video on "wings" and their sizes etc. As far as I can see the new speakers from Clayton Shaw are flat in the front with no wings. (it's difficult to find a back and front view picture). Danny has worked out exact wing sizes and angles, tweeter gaps and more. How would it affect the sound if the front surface was slightly convex and by how much as compared to flat. Some are egg shaped, others have small eggs on top larger further down. It is said that a LARGE rounder over makes the wave propagation better at the interface.There's one guru who did all sorts of shape exercises with different results. None of them were rectangular. I am looking at Clayton Shaws' new CALADAN speaker, but I need to get some some things squared away in my mind first.

[@johnnydingo8680]

Yes, when age creeps up on us, it all sounds the same 😊

[@mlo5083]

Did you ever get to that run of 20 pairs?

[@summerforever6736]

JOHN 100% AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!1

[@theangryhog]

For analog cabling (RCA's, speaker wire, etc) only 2 things will make a real world difference - wire gauge and shielding. With lower gauge wire (lower = thicker), you have lower resistance which means more power makes it to the other end of the cable. You can literally get more of your amp's power to your speakers by simply having higher gauge wiring. With RCA's, since you are dealing with lower voltages, the presence of noise (which is essentially any signal that's NOT in our source audio) is a larger proportion of the signal, which then gets amplified along with the desired signal to wind up audible from your speakers. This is bad. So you want to shield your RCA's as best you can. This is especially important in the car audio world where there is limited routes to run wiring and electrical noise is everywhere. I used to compete in car audio sound quality and would show people the difference with a pair of thin, unshielded RCA's feeding my front speakers (buzz/hum/whine would be present) and then switch to a heavier gauge shielded pair (noise would all but disappear). Brand names mean nothing. But wire gauge and shielding do. For digital cabling, as long as the 1's and 0's get to the other end, it will sound perfect.

[@tweedeldee8122]

I think if it's not just straight speaker wire, the connection to the jack can matter as well.

[@RoadTo19]

Yes, application and distance are factors not considered in John's blanket statement. In a small listening room like his, perhaps there is no difference. Use the same cheap audio cabling in an auditorium or a car from the 70s or 80s after a shade tree mechanic turns his car into a hot-rod with high amp ignition... You'll notice a difference.

[@tylerhackman6832]

Skin effect is also real though. There are some genuine differences in how electricity travels in different types of wire. Solid core, stranded, etc. that impacts the sound, albeit minimal. I was turned on to using belden coax by an engineering friend. Unwind the positive and negative twists and bundle them together. You then have nice thin solid core runs to avoid the skin effect, but enough of them to create a decent gauge cable and keep resistance low. Plus it’s dirt cheap. Switched my system over to it and never looked back.

[@RoadTo19]

@@tylerhackman6832 "skin effect" is something new to me so I just looked it up, interesting. Do you use it for power from the wall, signal to the per-amp & amp or speaker wire? If you know of a website with more info, please share a link.

[@IBuildIt]

Skin effect isn't a thing at audio frequencies. It's yet another "issue" that guys get hung up on because they can't put it in perspective. It's like saying your car will go faster if you wax it.

[@davidzoller9617]

There are differences concerning loudspeaker cables, but to my hearsay knowledge, there are very capable cables for less then 10$ per meter.

[@whome8192]

Paul McGowan says if you see a directional cable run…guess what, the only Unbalanced RCA audio cables PS Audio sells are directional. So I agree with you there. The problem is the trend of using balanced quad audio cable for unbalanced audio connections, with the shield only connected at one end. These can impact the sound, negatively. But with ideas like trying to avoid tone controls, buying overly bright speakers, and then taming them with poorly, but highly expensive cables gives people the impression that cables make a difference. Cheer up, don’t let the audiophiles get to you.

[@ohmythatsweird]

Was about to make a joke about Gold Voice Coils...... but they have Gold Voice Coils ! ....... Shit I'm poor.

[@flectalux6214]

Nice. I heard so much BS on this topic, nice to hear some sane people here. Belden cables, old stock western electric, poles to avoid the cable touching the floor, how sad some situations can go...

[@TheLukemcdaniel]

Why are you baking in subtitles/captions?

[@factotumindustries]

Using balanced audio would make more of a difference than half the "fairy dust" things done in hifi. Go look at a recording / broadcast studio. For every claim on esoteric hifi "cables" I'd offer a blind listening test.

[@ants9230]

I've never found an audiophile who is prepared to do a blind audition. Go figure.

[@EF-69]

It's the Op Amps John, but only if you spend $4700 on them. But it could be the cables, only if they're pure silver, which everyone knows sounds "sweeter" than copper.

[@garethsnaim8174]

why does this video have hardcoded sub titles?

[@FukemStudios]

This is my opinion! I am 52yo with hearing of a child my hearing test and doctor says. I can definitely hear differences in cables. I think (My Opinion) People who can't hear the difference in cables may have some sort of hearing lost. I got people around me who says there 600$ boombox sounds better than my 21,000$ hifi system. I have a cousin who was boasting about his hifi system and when I finally heard it I informed him both his subwoofers was busted and it sounds like sh*t🤮, He said "WHAT man, sounds GOOOD😤🤬!" I think its just are personal hearing ability and personal tast!😁 My Curious Cables took my system from being to forward (Digital) to more relaxed (Analog) sound. Oh, No debt many of these cable makers are scammers!🤔

[@IBuildIt]

You are an example of the problem around this issue. You claim you can hear a difference (assume that difference is an improvement), but can't prove that claim. Anyone can claim anything, but conclusively proving it is another thing altogether. To this day there have been no double blind listening tests proving what you say is true. Why is that? If there are so many that can definitely hear the difference, why hasn't anyone proved it with real evidence?

[@FukemStudios]

@@IBuildIt You can't prove sound to someone who can't hear well. That's like telling a blind man your shirt is blue and the blind man saying no its not its black. Then the blind man goes show me proof that your shirt is blue. How your going to do that if he can't see? If a person can't hear differences in sound (Tone) that's ok.

[@IBuildIt]

You can prove YOU can hear the difference. You claim you can, now prove it. Or should we just take your word for it? No one has done that, ever. Why not?

[@boomcrash]

$1000 cable sounds better than a $16 cable. Trust me. Anyone want to buy my $1000 cable? 😀

[@IBuildIt]

I'll open the bidding at $1

[@_Rick_S]

It's ridiculous that companies like Kimber Kable even exist. A 2 meter pair of their flagship speaker cables are $25,000 😂😂😂

[@Mrsmashsmellow]

Hi, I appreciate the concept of the video. I just want to express my opinion that absurd products like 'high-end cables' exist because there are people willing to buy them. I disagree. These products exist because companies need to sell more every year. Since the market is saturated, they struggle to sell more because there's nothing more we need in this part of the planet. So once they find the latest "new" product, they invest in marketing, and after bombarding people with advertising for months, people start buying. Everything we buy in electronics nowadays is induced demand, see for example the smartphone market. Companies are investing more than ever in marketing because they're producing useless stuff and need to create the desire for their products in people's minds. The market is driven by production, not the consumer. Suppliers need to sell more and more every year, that's how capitalism works, which is why iPhones are made of titanium, and hi-fi cables are sold at astronomical prices. DIY will save us all!

[@IBuildIt]

People buy iphones because they want one, not because they exist. Have you bought any $1000 cables?

[@Mrsmashsmellow]

People want one because they're bombarded with marketing. A hundred years ago, people didn't desire an iPhone. People might want practical machinery like washing machines and vacuum cleaners, and perhaps even a smartphone, but there's no logical reason to buy a new iPhone every year except for an induced desire by the market. They inundate people with ideas about having everything faster, better, and more performative, creating a sense of dissatisfaction with what we have and fostering a desire to 'upgrade.' And no, I don't have 1000 thousand cable but I would love to see one lol @IBuildIt

[@IBuildIt]

Your understanding of how this all works is incorrect. Back before we humans developed agriculture, there was no bread. We developed the tech to make bread to add stability and convenience to our existence, like every other technical advance since then. We want stuff, therefore we develop and make stuff. It's as simple as that. I'm sure there are things you don't buy, even though they are heavily marketed and millions of others buy them. I haven't bought any face makeup, even though I've seen thousands of ads for makeup products throughout my life. I haven't bought any highend cables, even though I'm fully aware that they exist and hear guys talking about them and see them in magazines.

[@Mrsmashsmellow]

I believe this is absolutely true, or at least it was true up to a certain point in the history of Western countries. Except on the medical front where progress is still desirable, in all other aspects of life, all our needs have been fulfilled. We have a machine for everything, and technology handles numerous tasks, and this has been true for 20, 30, even 40 years already. There was a 'happy' phase of capitalism where humanity was getting richer, buying more, and industry was thriving. For years, this model based on economic growth worked wonders, as long as there was a need to buy. The phase we find ourselves in now is a market saturation stage: no one really needs anything anymore, and selling becomes increasingly difficult. That's why new sales strategies have been introduced, such as planned obsolescence that compels us to buy 3 refrigerators in our lifetime instead of one, or, as mentioned above, creating new marketing strategies. We are in what is called a crisis of overproduction: we no longer know how to sell all the stuff we produce because we already own it! To finish answering your comment, you've never bought makeup because you're not the target audience for that product, and furthermore, marketing doesn't force the buyer but pushes them to buy. So, not everything that is advertised to you leads to a purchase, obviously.@@IBuildIt

[@IBuildIt]

You still don't get it. The stuff that we have today isn't there because of marketing or the evil greedy capitalists who you think only live to get richer and exploit the weak. It's there because we WANT it. If we didn't want it, it would not sell - period. Lots of new things are developed and invented and innovated every year, but only a fraction of those make it into the market. Those are the ones that the consumers want the most. Planned obsolescence is another widely misunderstood concept. Products are made to a price point that YOU the customer is willing to spend. That means you don't get a fridge that will outlive you for $400. But you CAN buy a fridge that will outlast you - it costs $10,000. AND you can buy a fridge for $400 if that's all YOU can afford. If you want to go back to a time when things were simpler and the wealth and convenience we have today doesn't exist, you can do that. Go find a piece of land to live like a caveman where you can hunt for your food and gather firewood to cook it and make cloths from the skins of the animals you eat. No one is stopping you from turning your back on the progress humanity has made and way too many take completely for granted.

[@juicebox853]

Amazon basics are a little shaky on quality. I normally use a Worlds Best which are made from quality off the shelf components and decent soldering from what I have see. Probably no sound difference, but better durability.

[@simonzinc-trumpetharris852]

Me too! BS audio for sure.

[@MCsCreations]

Yeah, if some component was optional... Why to use it at all? For more common they are, if you don't have an specific resistor... You're screwed. 😬 Anyway, thanks, John! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@sudd3660]

what if the lie i want to hear is that my cheap cable is as good any any high priced ones? not exactly a way to find and answer now is it.

[@IBuildIt]

You need to look at the reasons why we lie to ourselves to get the answer you think you need.

[@sudd3660]

@@IBuildIt i should stop thinking about the answer and try things for my self.

[@fubartotale3389]

I stopped watching McGowan when it became apparent that I had never learned anything useful from his videos.

[@asx1248]

Hi John, I’ve noticed you seem to have a little disdain for ‘audiophiles’…. In this vid I got that impression when you called a subset of them ‘true’ audiophiles. I don’t get it though because you yourself are an audiophile are you not? You care about how your music sounds and want to reproduce it with the best quality… anyone like this is an audiophile the difference is some believe the BS and some don’t. Rather than ‘true’ audiophiles you should call them the BS believing audiophiles (BSBAs).

[@MJHiteshew]

“True Audiophile” is quite the term. “Mystic” may be a better description. While I like Paul’s folksy delivery, and I have actually learned some things from him, he is unfortunately a snake oil salesman like many others that “audiophiles” fawn over. A fool and his money…

[@RickMahoney2013]

I call it Pure Shit Audio. That being said what is your opinion on when replacing internal parts on a piece of audio it there a part (cap) or (resistor) that you should upgrade to get better sound and longevity from that piece of audio equipment. Thanks.

[@IBuildIt]

Only reason to change resistors is if they burn out. Upgrading them won't be audible. Same for caps, but they have a lifespan especially if they run hot and are not properly sized.

[@sambaron1319]

Cable is racketeering. Make a "solution" and later create the "problem"....

[@nerop]

I can't see that people want to get lied to. I can see how people spending substantial sums on something unneeded/frivolous (perhaps "luxurious") can inflate their egos. Criticism of these purchases are then taken as direct attacks on the self-worth of the person, thus the purchase/product must be defended at all cost. I agree that the manufacturers are very happy to support this behaviour.

[@IBuildIt]

A lie becomes the truth if it's the truth you want to hear. No one consciously likes to be lied to. They want their lies dressed up as what that want to believe.

[@JeyDeeSweden]

Why only empty talk and: No actual proof or actual listening tests. The actual fact is that enormous and obvious differences exists in build quality when compairing different electronic components and cables. A bad connection with bad connectors is a bad? Connection. 😊

[@IBuildIt]

For example? Please list some of the obvious and enormous differences you've seen that affect audio performance.

[@Openeyesopenheart42]

I sense that this guy has expensive cables and thinks he can hear the difference.. I once splurged on Kimbre cables and speaker wire, it was a GIANT waste of money, total bs. I have large horn speakers that are ultra sensitive and I could not hear a difference between them and my homemade shielded cables made from Belkin cable . If anything I know that my home made cables will be better in a noisy electrical environment.

[@jfritzy4358]

John, you are a fantastic woodworker. You have designed and built some really interesting speakers and provide good information most of the time. Unfortunately, in this case just flat wrong. Claiming Amazon Basic cables and 100X or 1000X cables are made of the same stuff is wrong and blew your whole premise. That is the same hand waving BS you just accused PS Audio of performing. Where is the technical data to back up that claim? Quality of everything that goes into a cable matters. A well performing cable DOES NOT have to be uber expensive. Most uber expensive cables do not perform at such a superior level to justify their cost. Heck, have personally experienced moderately priced "audiophile" cables with shoddy construction. In no way do I promote uber expensive cables. Quality at a reasonable cost is the better answer. After trying cheap to moderate cost claimed to be "audiophile" quality cables, trashed them all and built my own. Quality parts, not expensive or containing pixie dust, that do the job and will last a lifetime.

[@IBuildIt]

The tech data is in the materials used - copper for the conductor and plastic for the insulation. I could say more, but I doubt it would be time well spent. If there's one thing I've learned about guys who are into audio, they believe what they want to believe, despite evidence to the contrary. They also don't have the technical knowledge and experience to put the relevant factors into perspective and fall for pseudoscience half-truths.

[@jfritzy4358]

@@IBuildIt Data does tell the story. Recycled copper is not the same as virgin copper. All plastic type insulation is not the same. All connectors are not the same. Again, I am NOT promoting expensive "audiophile" cables. I do have the engineering experience to know that an Amazon cable is not the same as one costing 10X, 100X, or 1000X more as you claim. Not sure what you have against guys who are into audio. Painting all with a broad brush implying blind belief in pseudoscience half-truths is wrong handwaving again. If you are happy with cheap Amazon cables, fine. My point is for not more than 2X the cost of cheap Amazon one can build your own with quality components that will have top notch performance and last a lifetime. I said nothing in support of uber expensive cables or belief in pixie dust.

[@IBuildIt]

So you think you can hear the difference between a "midfi" cable, like that amazon Basics one, and a genuine audiophile one? If you can and can prove it, you belong in the history books as the first of all time. Because such a claim has never been proven - ever. In fact James Randi was offering a 1 million dollar payout to anyone who could prove it, yet no one did. That tells the rational man one thing: there isn't an audible difference. That's the relevant data. Everything else is pixie dust and self-deception.

[@jfritzy4358]

@@IBuildIt Don't understand why you are repeatedly accusing me of saying something I most certainly did not. I said nothing about comparative sound quality. You made a giant leap to that conclusion. For the last time, my point is knowing what goes into a cable by making your own. Why do you design and make your own speakers? Why not buy off the shelf? Are you smarter than every speaker designer in the world? Doubtful. You like doing things yourself. Correct? I am not criticizing your speaker building interest. I did call you out for making an absolutely false statement that Amazon cables are the same as others costing many multiples of dollars. The idea that some test could be performed to shut down all expensive cable manufacturers claims is absurd. The argument around double blind listening tests has been around for decades. It will never be settled because neither side of the argument can ever agree on how to conduct a definitive test. The gigantic fallacy with double blind tests is EITHER side of the argument extrapolating an "end all" test result as applicable universally. Until you stop twisting my point so you can continue to aggressively thump your chest as all knowing about cables, no reason to attempt a civil exchange with you.

[@IBuildIt]

Double blind testing is the established scientific way to determine reliable results from subjective evaluation, so I have no idea what you are talking about. No one has been able to show that they can hear the difference when the tests are run. Plenty have been done, but none have shown results that prove audible differences in cables. So, what difference does it make if your preferred "good" cable is made from virgin copper, if you can't hear a difference? Why is it important for you to get upset about me saying that the Amazon cable is made from the same stuff as the ones that costs hundreds more, when you won't hear the difference? When the average audio guy talks about cables he's talking about SOUND QUALITY, not something else. So is it really me making a giant leap? Get real. If you think you can make a better (build quality) cable than Amazon, good for you. That and a $5 bill will get you a coffee. But to claim there's something special about the materials you would use to make the cable, and that they are so much better than what Amazon uses is nonsense. It's mostly nonsense because IT DOESN'T MATTER! You are arguing about trivial issues and acting like the fate of the Western world hinges on it.

[@gertvesterlarsen4531]

It's like you don't understand the original question Paul was asked, and your answer drifts completely off topic... It's a pity...

[@BradKaboord]

I would like to hear a honest argument to why John is wrong here. I'll wait. Not expecting a reply though.

[@MagicMaus29]

This is very oversimplified.

[@fubartotale3389]

No, not really, you will never see a manufacturer of "high end" cables submit to independent double blind testing, because they know the outcome. What does an expensive power cord do for you? Line power is very dirty, all the cable can do is transfer that dirty power to the unit which then has to filter out the noise, so its the unit itself that is responsible for that.

[@MagicMaus29]

@@fubartotale3389 I don't trust advertising promises (I come from this industry myself) or price tags. I only trust my ears. And if something for $1 sounds as good as something that costs $1,000, then I'm happy to have saved $999 without having to sacrifice anything. Unfortunately, that has never been the case.

[@MJHiteshew]

But it is this simple.