Mouthpiece Placement, Embouchure, and Buzzing

[@rp11106]

So, as a wary beginner I’ve viewed many videos. Your videos are easy to follow and your obvious expertise lends you your authenticity.

[@general5104]

EXCELLENT advice, young lady. Thank you. I have always liked Trombone, Glenn Miller being my favorite, of course, I'm telling my age, by this. My Grandson bought a Trombone and he keeps it up here at my house, so I decided to learn to play it, by watching a bevy of videos...getting multiple opinions on what the lips must look like. I also, several years ago, bought a Harbor Freight Bugle, just for laughs. Now, every time I go by it, I pick it up and try to get a good clear note. I still sound like a ticked-off Elephant! Thanks for your instruction. Bill, from Tn. 🇺🇸

[@soccerchick1234ful]

I've been playing flute for about 4 years and I'm switching to French horn & have to teach myself during summer for marching band season. This really helped thank you! 🎺😊❤

[@singjazzy6697]

OH my goodness, it worked. I have been struggling with getting one note, and because of the detailed mouth buzzing, I did it! How exciting!! Thank you

[@srivenkatvidyasubramanian6348]

I have already learnt how 2 play trumpet, cornet and French horn in my *school band* . I haven't got my instrument yet, but I asked others and they gave me :) :)

[@kifin2]

i've been playing tuba for some years now and the last days i am trying to play french horn. Although the embouchure is similar (or i thought it would be) it is very different at the same time. The video,the tips and the trick with m p helped me a lot. Many thanks. Yiannis Kithira Greece

[@ManosKassimatis]

cheers mate!

[@Lotuxus]

Thank you for posting such an excellent tutorial on buzzing. This is one of the first videos that I ask my horn techniques students to watch, before our first "playing" class.

[@Thomashkg]

Thank you very much for this excellent video

[@Herodotus3]

Having had difficulties with the embouchure in junior high I can't recommend her approach enough. It is NOT the same as a trumpet and the head is even above the instrument, not horizontal to it (as w trumpet or trombone). Thanks so much. This will help a great deal.

[@MrDCWood]

Just what I needed! I’m learning to play the bugle for the role of Teddy Brewster in a production of Arsenic & Old Lace. This video has clear instruction I needed to get the technique right! Thank you!

[@canaanmaison1751]

i realize I am pretty off topic but does anyone know a good site to watch newly released series online ?

[@lsefia]

My girls just started working on the french horn and I have been trying to practice too. I watched a couple of videos but was only able to buzz and make sounds on the mouth piece after watching this video. Thanks for your input.

[@wilktone]

Thanks for responding, Dizzyphan. I wouldn't call Arban, Gordon, and Maggio "wrong," but they are rigid in their instructions where there is a lot more variety than they (and you) acknowledge. Again, you might be interested in my embouchure videos as they show upstream and downstream players on all brass. FYI, more lower lip inside (upstream) is less common on all brass, not just horn.

[@asterixopatopuffy2837]

I like your video very much. I'm a complete beginner and this has been extremely informative. Thank you so much :)

[@wilktone]

I've found the same basic embouchure patterns on all brass instruments, including horn, and in about the same ratios. Look at the embouchures of Dennis Brain, Phil Myers, and Domenico Ceccarossi for examples of excellent horn players with placements similar to Miles Davis and Wynton Marsalis. Everyone has a different face, everyone has a different embouchure.

[@edgarwalk5637]

Best first lesson ever!

[@GarmanyRachel]

Wow this woman is gorgeous.

[@DavidDArcyWestsideMichigan]

I was in an auto accident late last June that prohibited me from playing the trumpet for two months. Now, although I can make my lips buzz like you do, I can't replicate the buzz for the mouth piece (nothing by air, no notes/sounds). Currently, I can only hit high Ab during my first scale warmup. After that, not even close. Obviously, my two month hiatus has hurt my embouchure. Will continued practicing, like weight lifting, help me slowly get back to hitting high A? Finally, tongue placement. I've been taught to high high notes, I need to make an EEEEEE sound (so the back of the tongue rises up). Any suggestions? (PS, just came from the dentist and he said I have a significant receding jaw-where my upper teeth completing covers my lower teeth when my mouth is shut...which is seldom:-) Thank you for your free video. I'm a 56 year old medically retired veteran and my only desire to learn the trumpet is the ability to play Taps at funerals, but if I can learn to make good sounding notes (now they're kind of fuzzy) I'd enjoy playing the trumpet more. Warmly, Dave

[@circbert]

Right from the start, I called it, I knew she was a French Horn Player. Nice mouthpiece placement maybe for FHorn, not so much for trumpet and for endurance and for high range, and yes she is pretty.

[@Dizzyphan]

Yes....I've seen them. Very nice.......yes the "buzz" is there in basic form, but horn embouchures aim for mostly top lip blowing down,etc. Trumpet embouchures aim for 50/50 for the most part, which is different from horn.

[@MarkTaylorMusic]

@circbert at first I was confused by your comment, but then I realized that I've seen her other videos where she talks about the info being for Horn playing. Actually, I think she say so in this video several times. I would think the statement that the "Horn embouchure is not like the other brasses..." would have tipped you off which, of course makes the rest of your comment irrelevant. Horn players have to navigate a 4 octave range daily and this setting evolved to do just that.

[@wilktone]

I think we've found a point of agreement, Dizzyphan. It's the player's anatomy that dictates the embouchure. Where we seem to disagree is on whether there is a "horn" embouchure versus any other brass instrument. My research suggests that the same basic patterns, including variation in mouthpiece placement, apply to all the brass and in about the same ratios. Most upstream players do not have underbites, more lower lip inside the cup makes it upstream, not horn angle or jaw position.

[@jacquelinekerstetter8361]

Of my horn students that use a trumpet embouchure 1/2 and 1/2, most cannot easily play from the high range into the low range unless they do a huge shift. Some music does not allow the time to make those shifts. If they are resistant to trying the 2/3s, 1/3 ratio, I have them work on Beethoven's sonata, which forces them to move through the ranges quickly. After attempting the Beethoven, they'll finally give the 2/3s upper and 1/3 lower a try and their playing will become more flexible through all the ranges. There are always exceptions to this, and Dennis Brain is one of them. However, if you study the majority of professionals hornist's embouchures (photos in Phil Farkas's "Art of French Horn Playing"), you'll see the majority of players play with a 2/3s upper lip, 1/3 lower-lip ratio than 1/2 and 1/2. Because we must be able to play flexibly and quickly through our 4-octave range, more upper lip in the mouthpiece really helps.

[@jacquelinekerstetter8361]

I agree regarding the player's anatomy. Also, I'm sure you noticed Phil Meyers plays uncentered (mouthpiece placed more on the left side than right), and typically we don't recommend that. But he's an amazing player, so clearly it works for him!

[@wilktone]

@@jacquelinekerstetter8361, thanks for the response. I had forgotten about this video and the discussion. The main point I was unsuccessfully trying to make is that regardless of what's typical, mouthpiece placement is extremely personal. When I teach I prefer to approach each student with the standpoint that their placement might need adjustment. Where it ends up is going to be different for every student. I have put up many videos on my KZbin channel that discuss this in more detail as well as on my blog, if you're interested in hearing more about how I approach brass embouchure pedagogy.

[@PacMan1096]

3:25 She explains that the trumpet emboucure differs from that of a French Horn, which is what she is playing. (On the mouthpiece, of course.)

[@DutchPointOfView]

Thank you this is so helpful

[@squirrel3310]

Hello ! can you tell me on witch lip you feel te vibration . Even we take more upper lip the vibration can be on the down lip ? I don't know !

[@Dizzyphan]

Yet a french horn embouchre uses mostly top lip as is instructed here. Trumpet is mostly 50/50 or a little variation either way in placement depending on the player's teeth/mouth structure. They are not the same.

[@Queeze101]

yay! this is working for me so far.

[@wilktone]

Dizzy, I'm sorry your feeling frustrated. I'm talking all brass. Horn angle doesn't dictate the air stream direction, mouthpiece placement does. You can watch videos on my KZbin channel to see this for yourself (on all the brass instruments).

[@xSammyAngelx5x]

When playing, you should also make sure that your teeth are wide open, not touching, because it can affect the sound.

[@elkartian]

mmm ,prrrr ,great and for buzz try saying vrrrrrrr it works ,what you think

[@DaveWatts_ejectamenta]

Sandra Bullock's musical younger sister?

[@estudiomonteverdi]

fantastic

[@gcejudop]

You all have to check this out!!! Without words...

[@凛-r3h]

I have a problem, I can't change my sound it always sound the same.I try blowing harder, and it makes it louder but the sound isn't different.And I feel like if I change mouth position I wouldn't be able to do it anymore.A lot of saliva or spit comes out when I do the buzzing or when I blow in the mouthpiece. Is this normal?

[@raydn05]

Kotonoha Katsura yes

[@EthanCarson100]

does it fit in my eye or possibly my ear or buttox?

[@carlosmalave3137]

Hi I was wondering if there's anything to do about this my mouthpiece is stuck on please help

[@aviationandfishingdude7591]

Whatever you do don't yank it out get your music teacher or professional to use a tool to remove it

[@IIrandhandleII]

This professor is quite hot.

[@anguslong1763]

adfasd XD

[@wilktone]

Dizzyphan, you seem to have gotten an erroneous impression from my videos or you are confusing them with someone else's. I recommend against 50/50 for all brass players as one lip or another will want to predominate inside the cup. Although it's not as common on any of the brass instruments, many fine brass players (on horn too) play with more lower lip inside the cup. Again, check out Dennis Brain, Phil Myers, and Domenico Ceccarossi for three examples. Thanks for responding!

[@siscopapa4347]

samuel glover am looking for help i go to school in Richard Akwei memroail in Ghana am in JHS 1b I NEED HELP PLEASE

[@Dizzyphan]

NO...I acknowledg variations of course, but the "aim" at setting up a trumpet or horn embouchure as in this video showing the "horn embouchure aim" are different. I have found that upstream in trumpet players also has a lot to do with front teeth "bite". People with big underbites usually go upstream and have more lower lip dn the horn points up at an angle. Example, Sammy Davis Jr. would more likely be an upstream player.

[@Herodotus3]

She said all of those things about accounting for teeth shape, etc. It is not the same as Miles or Wynton, however. This is french horn. A major reason why talented skilled french horn players are so rare is that it is a much more complicated instrument in so many ways, including the setting of the mouth on the mouthpiece, posture, etc. You should have listened to her actual words.

[@Dizzyphan]

So the Arban's book is wrong? Claude Gordon, Louis Maggio are wrong?? I have noted that this horn player IS following usual protocol for horn players aiming for mostly top lip in cup setting up. That's all. Trumpet is not aiming that way.

[@da11king]

I got it ! 'mmmm" and "per"

[@Dizzyphan]

This is talking about french horn embouchures. Way different than a trumpet.

[@colinball9032]

that's very interesting, but surely you should explain that when actually PLAYING, the lips do not "Buzz" ( don't take my word for it there are plenty of sites that explain this )

[@eula_gaming]

My lips are too big I can't play high notes with a 7c mouthpiece

[@Dizzyphan]

Yet again the horn embouchure aims at mostly top lip in the cup. This is indeed different from trumpet.

[@zoenoon2816]

My teacher said I have the worst embouchure she's ever seen... it's so frustrating that I can't fix it! She also said that she has no idea how I've been playing for so long.

[@TheGentleUncle]

What I have no idea though is how she has been allowed to teach for so long...

[@EnglishTMTB]

If you're able to make it work, it might be that your teacher just doesn't like the way your embouchure functions... or it might be that there's genuinely something wrong with it. What is it about your embouchure that your teacher is so frustrated by? (I'm not saying your teacher is necessarily wrong, but there are also a lot of dogmatic teachers who expect all students to use the same embouchure regardless of anatomy and who don't understand even the very basics of how embouchures really work, good brass playing is good brass playing and the horn absolutely does not need a specific embouchure type - teachers insisting on one embouchure type only are forcing all students that don't naturally suit that type to fail, and will then without any sense of irony point to the success of the ones that naturally suit that type as a good reason to keep on ruining other players)

[@MarkTaylorMusic]

@dabermanator117 While I agree with the principle about the wide range of faces and possible mouthpiece settings out there. Suggesting that a bunch of young Horn players look to Miles or Wynton as models is ridiculous. Do some research and maybe suggest Phil Myers or Dennis Brain or Hermann Baumann or Barry Tuckewell or... The French Horn is not a trumpet!

[@granteilers]

Is it just me or is there no sound?

[@rdangelo]

2/3 upper, 1/3 lower might work for French horn, but...

[@EnglishTMTB]

Only if you want every player who isn't naturally suited to 2/3 upper, 1/3 lower to crash and burn and fail to learn the instrument... which is basically what happens to any horn player who uses any other type of embouchure.

[@GigudoFat]

gut erklärt, hab nen Ton raus bekommen Dankeschön 😊

[@MyArmHurtsBad]

2:44 xD

[@wilktone]

Dizzy, the comments here are a poor medium to have a detailed discussion and I don't think I'm able to get my point across to you accurately this way. Feel free to send me a private message or visit my web site if you'd like me to send you some video footage of more lower lip (upstream) horn players and trumpet players.

[@Dizzyphan]

And I'm saying your "all brass" doesn't not FIT all brass. Most of your thesis is in regard to trombone or larger brass and all of your examples are based on THAT. Horn angle is the RESULT of mouthpiece placement and jaw jutting forward or not. Upstream trumpet players are easy to spot because of what I just mentioned that their jaw juts forward thus the horn naturally aims at an upward angle. Next you'll be denying a tongue arch for trumpet players despite the old xray film showing it.

[@wilktone]

Dizzyphan, your definition of upstream/downstream is not accurate. Please take a moment and watch my KZbin video "Brass Embouchures and Air Stream Direction" to see this. Or Lloyd Leno's "Lip Vibration of Trombone Embouchures." It is not the horn angle/jaw position that defines the air stream direction, it is the lip ratio inside the mouthpiece. This is true for all brass. Thanks for the reply.

[@seantangey]

This video needs a better title. She doesn't mention french horn until halfway through.

[@ShitEuphPlayer]

God forbid any young student who sees this, terrible advice revolving around typical embouchure misconceptions. Through diligent and careful practice, young students soon adjust to their optimum mouthpiece placement, usually unconsciously. Also, encouraging students to articulate with the seed spit method usually causes them to develop an articulation where the tongue protrudes through the lips, a very inconsistent method of tonguing which only works for a select few. Also, trumpet embouchures are very half and half? Bollocks...

[@nocluewhatimdoing4543]

+ShitEuphPlayer Really? I happen to be this professor's student and find that nearly every technique she teaches here has improved my playing, aside from the mouthpiece placement itself. Now, if you'd like to provide better methods for HORN playing that would help me improve, please do so.

[@EnglishTMTB]

Actually I think ShitEuphPlayer pretty much nailed it... There are several different "types" of embouchure placement and which will work out best is quite personal to an individuals anatomy. Attempting to force a "ratio" of top to bottom lip will effectively weed out the players who aren't naturally supposed to play that way, these players will crash and burn whilst the ones who naturally are supposed to play that way succeed, thus confirming to the person that gave the bad advice that they were right (just look how all their successful students followed their advice!) they're just ignorant to the fact that the other students could have been just as successful if their teacher hadn't tried to force them to play a certain way. This teachers advice would have prevented Dennis Brain from being a successful horn player (he was very clearly upstream, about 20% upper and 80% lower lip - players like this simply could not cope with being told they HAVE to be 2/3 top 1/3 bottom). There's an awful lot of bad advice in brass instrument pedagogy - this dogmatic insistence on a very specific lip ratio is by no means unique to french horn teaching or to this teacher... that it's a common misconception doesn't prevent it from being a misconception.

[@colinball9032]

Exactly! and the lips DON'T buzz when playing

[@goodcyrus]

EnglishTMTB, But you could also say that about lips protruding out vs. not. A lot of jazz musicians play whatever is easier for them and form bad habits from a classical point of view and might have dropped out, had they been pushed to do it a certain way. On the other hand, a lot of jazz musicians do not end up having the great sound that Hooten created on this Yamaha ad kzbin.info/www/bejne/nH6xdqp-ZtKHhJY Maybe the point of such teachers is only to create the best sound in the best players possible and not just help every Joe be able to play something.

[@erasermouthvids]

ShitEuphPlayer just look at Dennis Brain, people.

[@siscopapa4347]

samuelglover

[@Dizzyphan]

Well...again your trombone/baritone low brass definition of an upstream embouchure is different from my trumpet one. I've seen too many of my colleagues in the pro world who point their horns up in the air because of their underbite and jutting out jaw warranting it. Again....Sammy Davis Jr.'s underbite is a prime example of what would be in a trumpeter's definition, "upstream". Jaw/lower teeth out forward of the top teeth, or dead even,etc.

[@frederick4455]

She is so hot!

[@hilariodaragona4473]

You are beautifull, you know it? ;-)

[@explodingsausage6576]

If you clearly know nothing about embouchure, why would you endeavor to teach it? The state of brass teaching these days is rooted in dogma and anecdotal nonsense.

[@Dizzyphan]

I'm talking trumpet and horn and you're talking trombone!! THAT's different. So you're going to deny that there are trumpet players with underbites who point their horns upwards? I'm done replying here.

[@matthewbassett3644]

Too much talking and no lesson.