MPPT VS PWM || Solar Charge Controller

[@greatscottlab]

What? A video on friday? Long story short, I will be going on vacation tomorrow and take a small break from producing videos. So this is basically the video for sunday. But don't be scared, there will probably be another video ready for the next sunday.

[@manar6187]

Enjoy your holidays Scott!

[@shubhamgiri5801]

GreatScott! where are you gonna go.

[@pulkittyagi496]

sir you are making a ordinary person a engineer

[@alinbostan4569]

Enjoy your vacation !!! Thanks for video, and i will see you next time !!!!

[@badraa7838]

GreatScott! Man your videos are awesome!!!!

[@invictu4488]

4 years later this information is still gold... Anyone else admiring the neatness of his handwriting? That alone makes the video more plausible and the results from the calculations, as well as his conclusions more believable. 😃

[@rmsalkin]

I couldn't agree more.

[@Kabodanki]

for some reason I find this really satisfying seeing your face saying "Stay creative and I will see you next time"

[@Jajaho2]

Sapher me too, it's so weird

[@shahidmohamed8210]

Sapher oh, me too

[@weasel2htm]

Agreed, it's great to see his face. More (for lack of a better word) "Personable" that way

[@djfmitv]

Finally, a face to the voice - love your videos :)

[@skychen8565]

factory whatsapp[phone]

[@proyectosledar]

Nice to see you on friday!!!!

[@proyectosledar]

can you use grid tie inverter?

[@manar6187]

Te le adelantaste a Scott con la energía solar eh! jaja, abrazo!

[@powerwall]

www.amazon.com/dp/B0778D7SP9

[@id104335409]

The final calculations were shocking to me, but they confirmed how AWESOME you are to not hesitate to show real numbers even if you don't like the outcome. Keeping it real! I like that!

[@nathandtanner]

Mppt really comes into its own with larger systems where the PV voltage is configured to be much higher than the battery through series connection of panels. In either case though, the energy harvested over the whole day will be significantly greater with a good mppt controller. Really enjoyed the video mate, cheers!

[@MasterXXL3]

Something that you didn't mention is the main function of the MPPT is to vary the voltage or current in order to maximize the power generated depending on the temperature and irradiance of the PV panels. This is specially important during days with lots of clouds in the sky since partial shading of panels can really decrease the power generation if this is not compensated by an MPPT module.

[@TheKillerjohny]

Yep he is human after all. Just like everyone else. Do not panic people.

[@micahmills7516]

You forgot one of the most important points about MPPT vs PWM! Most PWM controllers will not work until the output voltage of the panel reaches a certain voltage, but a MPPT panel can boost low panel output during early morning and evening sunlight. This means that you get more hours of battery charging during the day from MPPT instead of PWM.

[@MTMiser]

That might be important for grid-tied systems or any system that needs to maximize watts all day long, but for many people who are using solar on RVs or off-grid if they're still desperate for watts at the end of the day they've got their system sized way too small. The PWM system on my camper starts charging the moment the sun is on the horizon and my batteries are fully charged by 10 am to noon on sunny days. By the end of the day I don't care if it's getting any watts at all since it's just been throwing them away all afternoon anyway. On cloudy days when charging is minimal, yeah, maybe that would make a bit of a difference. But I prefer to have enough amp hours in the battery bank to last at least 5 days without any charging at all, to guard against running out of power in case of multiple cloudy days, etc. PWM has worked fine for me for ten years now and it saved money over going with MPPT. Everyone should do the math for their particular system. Sometimes MPPT is the only way to go, but sometimes not.

[@stopPlannedObsolescence]

@@MTMiser do u know how i can use a system without batteries ? iwanna just work for my fridge in the ligthday

[@MTMiser]

@@stopPlannedObsolescence You would need to know how much power your fridge pulls, especially on startup. I'm assuming it's a residential fridge? Those pull a lot of amps on startup. Then you need enough solar panel wattage to handle that and an inverter to convert the solar array's voltage to whatever voltage the fridge runs on (120, 240?). But I think you'd be better off with a battery bank. Otherwise the power would fluctuate every time a cloud passes over. I would think that could damage the fridge's motor over time.

[@stopPlannedObsolescence]

@@MTMiser thank so much mate,yeah so with this point of view, i think is better a bank batteries that support the peak and the consume required for 1 hour like minimum ,or another idea is a onGrid system for reducing my kw/h just for startting in this world.ty and escuse me for my bad english heheh

[@yourTuBaer]

@@stopPlannedObsolescence If you would not want to use a battery (can't recommend) you better use a peltier fridge. It does run on 12V and it will not stop running if too less power (like a 12v compressor fridge)

[@seinosatoshi6971]

I saw you face GreatScott at first time. Thank you very much great video every times. Especially I love your schematics drawing beauty. Thank a lot.

[@dalahmah]

I think the true value of the MPPT will become apparent when there is partial shading on the solar panel or when it is cloudy.

[@genuino-qo5yq]

Can't wait for a diy mppt charge controller...

[@greatscottlab]

It will happen....but not soon.

[@nightmareinaction629]

GreatScott! awww

[@Markle2k]

It's not a complex idea. Construct a graph of your panels' voltage vs. current. You want to have the line from the origin to your panels position on the Current/Voltage diagram have its maximum length. Equivalently, find the point on the curve where the tangent's normal passes through the origin. The issue is that the curve changes shape as illumination changes (you really need a 3-D map if you wanted to do it like your car's ECU) and an iterative approach is needed. The simplest is this: change the voltage on the input by varying the duty cycle on the controller. If this increases the power, do it again and again until it doesn't. Repeat every few intervals or when a large excursion happens on the input power.

[@tubamacmac]

There is even a chip that he could base a circuit off of.

[@techs5564]

GreatScott! i made one. not effective but working.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

For many people the solar efficiency is not a monetary matter. Instead...it is their only way to obtain any energy so the extra power you can capture on any given day is priceless. Nice video!

[@StreuB1]

GREAT VIDEO!!! And I agree with everyone else. SO GLAD you finally came in front of the camera!!! :-D

[@322doug]

Great video...thanks. Im a EE and q General class radio operator. I built a 125aH portable battery power box, for my power needs outdoors for long weekends operating radios and everything else I needed for my comfort...fan, lamps ect ect. I use a $15 no name charge controller now for about 6 years of regular use. It performs very well.

[@groingo]

One thing you neglected with the first PWM controller has a variable input power setting from 13.7 (default) to 15 volts, the 15 volt setting would bring in not 3 amps but upwards of 16 amps depending and your current battery charge state.

[@RandomElectronics1]

Please take apart the cheap charge controllers!

[@RodLucanor]

My sincere respects for this guy who take seriously efficiency analitical energy costs. You are a true hero. Cheers from Argentina!!

[@kokopelli314]

I purchased some MPT7210a controllers, mostly because I use a mix of 230w, 285w, 300w panels charging a 60v LiFePO4 stack. It's fun to watch them compete with one another to push current into the batteries when the system is under load

[@NavinChoubeyB]

finally got to see man behind such a great show, thanks for being inspiration for plenty of my diy projects.

[@greatscottlab]

+Navin Choubey No problem :-)

[@samarasaunders6794]

Thank you so much for making a video about this! I've been scavenging parts to build a portable solar generator for a while now. This video was VERY helpful! P.S. It depends how damp your garage is and how cold that block wall gets in the winter but keep an eye on those exposed terminals they can corrode quite quickly if condensation is present. If that happens adding a plywood backboard and/or some dielectric grease should remedy the problem. I see it alot in mains electrical panels.

[@whatworkedforme]

good call @Samara Saunders - Installation is as important as compatibility and other tech stuff. I have seen expensive equipment (not speaking of solar specifically) fail due to corrosion, within a year, through damp getting into low power circuitry. Things start getting weird (unreliable) first then failing completely.

[@intixshintei5429]

Thought great scott was around 40. Not disappointed

[@workrelatedgmailaccount4378]

As I am sure you know, but did not state for the video, the MPPT really begins to shine when you hook up the panels in series. Increased panel voltage is less loss in the wires and the MPPT can convert the higher voltage.

[@philippbayer797]

I also have a small solar off-grid system and I used a PWM charge controller from Steca for a long time. This charge controller is absolutely great for small solar systems and its of high quality as well. But I also bought the MPPT charge controller from Victron with a integrated bluetooth module and it works just fine. I think a PWM charge controller from a well known brand like Steca is a safe choice unless you want to build a bigger solar system.

[@aiman_rzn]

Video quality just got better, keep it up scott

[@ahmedrisha]

first time to see great Scott face not disappointed at all. looks awesome dude 😉

[@mundo_electronica]

Great video to watch on a Friday, regards Scott!

[@NityanandaHazarika]

Good to see you after a long time.

[@BeezyKing99]

although I've only subbed recently.... now i finally find the video that reveals the face behind the voice... so clear yet concise... overall I gotta admit I am learning from your content as time goes on.

[@lubricatedgoat]

Dude... you look much younger than I imagined. So wise for your years!

[@NNNILabs]

There's a reason why people say 'Thank God its Friday' and today I realized why.

[@alexstrings]

Is because you are a cheap slave. Work for yourself or be a slave

[@attackaffection5444]

@@alexstrings bro he meant that Friday because of the fact that this video released on a Friday which was "Out Of Schedule"

[@alexstrings]

@@attackaffection5444 sorry, i was in troll mode that day😂😂😂😂

[@attackaffection5444]

@@alexstrings oh well nvm ok lol😂

[@alexstrings]

@@attackaffection5444 lol ok!

[@norvinsakiral4450]

This is my first time to watch your video with you in the front explaining anything.

[@leroywarner7354]

Excellent both in writing and in verbalizing clear into the point

[@dennissimmons3730]

This is not what I thought great Scott would look like

[@Taikausko]

OMG I thought you are middle aged guy with this knowledge :o You really have done your lessons and research well!

[@wa9kzy326]

This is a really good presentation. You have included considerations that nobody else has thought of. Good work.

[@shermluge]

I've watched many (but not all) of your videos, and this is the first time I've actually seen your face!! But Thank you.. You confirmed with what I thought on my small project and I appreciate it.

[@bluesquadron593]

Great to meet you in "person"!

[@ExarchNZ]

I also like the talking to the camera video format.

[@martinverkaik3136]

That handwriting is so satisfying..

[@zero2011zero2011]

Finally, we find you in front of camera

[@stratismiritzis285]

I prefer those kind of talking to the camera videos

[@jedoTAck]

MPPT vs PWM what you miss: the difference in efficency =( vPanelMPP - vBat)/100% (-power comsumption of the charger) This means if you have 2 panels in series with a 12 v lead acid battery the difference would be way higher. In short: the more your panel voltage missmatches your battery voltage, the more you want to use mppt.

[@rm6857]

True, which panels did he used?

[@ErikThiart]

So young. So stress free. Ah 5 years ago, simpler times.

[@MTMiser]

Great video, GreatScott! It's great to see somebody saying to do the math before choosing between MPPT and PWM. It seems a lot of people think MPPT is more efficient than PWM so that's all you need to know - go with MPPT! But PWM makes sense for many people. You really have to do the math for your particular system in addition to taking other factors into consideration (like build quality, etc.). I built a solar system for my truck camper back in 2009. I wanted to go with a high quality charge controller so I bought a Morningstar PWM. It cost me $155 US but it is a solid, excellent quality controller that is still working flawlessly today. The MPPT version of the same controller was almost $380, $225 more than the PWM version. I added an extra solar panel to my array to make up for the difference between PWM and MPPT. The MPPT controller would have given me 39% more watts to my batteries (at the most, not all the time). The extra panel gave me 36% more wattage, so nearly the same advantage. And the extra panel was $100 instead of the extra $225 for the MPPT controller. So it saved me $125 over going with MPPT. And for 9 years now the system has been working great.

[@johnphillip6328]

Let's us be honest Great Scott is the best

[@GuzLightyear]

Finally I can put a face to the voice!

[@sebincjose9474]

o my God. U came infant of camera

[@sebincjose9474]

sorry I just saw that now

[@Aperson-sv2hc]

That's a pretty big infant.

[@sebincjose9474]

he don't sound like so

[@doormattde]

Sebin C Jose *doesn't

[@id104335409]

Sebin C Jose I guest* he did

[@22smudger]

Interestingly - I nearly bought one of those cheap Chinese eBay controllers, thinking it was an extremely cheap MPPT type - but after challenging the seller, he admitted it is actually a PWM controller (probably worth about $10) in an MPPT type case - the case even has MPPT in the model number. If you looked closely at the photo of the display, it actually said PWM - not that you can trust the photos on Chinese eBay listings either - that’s ONE of the ways they manage to cut costs - by blatant misrepresentation - that it seems eBay has no interest in regulating.

[@threedogsandacamper503]

Excellent explanation and comparison! I don’t feel so bad about my cheap PWM controller for now but may upgrade to a better quality unit later.

[@alexandruclaudiu2563]

Uei! Finally I see the man behind the voice. Thank you for the video. All together, what I think in the end is that it does not mater if a solar panel can produce energy for 25 years if a solar charge controller need to be replaced after some years (meaning more money) and if you consider the price of energy you will get in the same price as if you paid the monthly bill. I like solar but I have doubts about the final cost.

[@acgkplh]

Crazy! Never thought you looked like that. It's great to see the face behind the videos 👍

[@leventebalogh5258]

I have the same victron charger and also had a couple of cheap pwm chargers like these. the real benefit of using an mppt charger is when the sky is cloudy it produces a lot more energy than a pwm charger

[@shinesanthosh]

Happy to see your face again

[@FloatingIdeasonanarrowboat]

The really important reason to get an MPPT is because you can fully utilise standard mass produced panels that output much higher voltages than ones designed for 12V use. A panel giving 36V pp would waste two thirds if charging a 12V by PWM. It's the stepdown that's the key to making use of cheaper solar panels.

[@Doeff8]

Finally I see a video that starts with our hero GreatSCott himself!

[@davidgolden6068]

That is some A+ penmanship

[@FappyGnome]

This is a really good video, keep them up like this man. It's good to see your channel evolve

[@AnubhabKundu]

felt good to see my guide's face!

[@Hobbies-and-Experiments]

I have that cheep black pwm controller on a 300w 3 panel solar system, Charging four 6v batteries wired in series and parallel to give a 12v block at 450Ah, each 6v = 225Ah ive had it for 2 years now and was going to get a mppt controller but after seeing this video i don't think i will bother :) thanks for sharing this info.

[@KarmusDK]

Thank you for showcasing and explaining the different concepts so easily in this video.

[@fieldsofomagh]

Enjoy your vacation, you deserve it for all your efforts !!

[@succuvamp_anna]

I like this format with the intro and outros, nice touch!

[@SoloRobot]

finally we saw your face

[@Markle2k]

The other thing you should consider is your monetary investment in the solar panels. The PWM controller require an array that is nearly 20% larger to compensate for their inefficiency if your situation requires x number of watt-hours/day.

[@ahmedmani1051]

holy shit iv been watching greatscott for 2 years and i always thought his blonde and wear a glass i was like dammmn

[@rohandvivedi]

I don't know if you have appeared on your channel before I subscribed to it. but It is great to see you, generally I think great scott with flashing LEDs only. I always thought of you a mentor, and your projects inspired me.

[@ervivekchoubey]

Hello German Engineer, nice to see you.

[@aaronb483]

I appreciate your practical view of the two type of charger

[@jakob1379]

Oh god.. First time actually seeing the guy. Thought he was much much older 😂😂😂

[@ABID5]

nice to see you scott.

[@FJB2024_]

I always appreciate the formulas and detail! excellent work as always. that guy about the Stirling engine has an interesting point to followup on.

[@Inesophet]

Great video, in my experience a propper battery is more important. There are many cheapo solutions outthere but there build quality REALLY matters.

[@trengineer5348]

i still dont understand how he can write that much well by holding that pen like that :D you're really great "GreatScott" :D

[@CagnPolat]

Thank you for the video. But I have to add that ,the temperature and total flux are two major parameters that should be taken account in order to determining which controller is the best. These two parameters make the bluestar mppt charge controller more valuable, especially in the low light flux and high temperature limits.

[@quentinrufin4025]

Great video. Comparing the price of electricity with the price of MPPT/PWM only makes sens if you have access to electricity from the grid. When people are living off the grid, they tend to be more interrested to produce more electricity in order to not run out of juice.

[@nicoras8803]

Turn the PWM voltage up and the current will increase. You can take the battery voltage to 14.4V

[@RumblePirate]

Nice surprise to see you, awesome work you are doing mate... Helps a lot to nerds like me

[@Destructor429]

I have and use both of those Chinese solar controllers in my RV's and like them both. However the first one (Beige in color) is fully programmable and works amazing for what you pay . I used it in my last RV for 4 years with 200 watts in panels and 4 X 6 volt Trojan T105 batteries (wired to 2 - 12 volt banks). The one and only downfall I experienced was when the batteries are fully charged at 13.6 or 13.8 volts the charger said you were at %80. You had to turn up the cut out to 14.6 volts for it to read %100 and then of course the batteries would be boiling. I just locked my cut off to 13.4 and ran it like that for 4 years. When I sold that RV and bought my next one I went with the second one you tested. The Black controller. Because ...... Well it was pretty. It charges great but has no adjustable parameters and pumps the batteries to 14 volts and holds them there. I have some people say that is fine but I honestly do not like it that high. The reason I like these Chinese chargers is because they are cheap and they have full read outs on them without having to buy some ridiculous blue tooth module. That is just my personal experience other people may have different opinions.

[@xMalhardeshmukh]

great to see you in front of the camera

[@oskarogarp]

what an absolute hunk! great vid

[@chandrurn]

What!!!! You got to be kidding dude, ohhh man you got a deep voice. we all thought that you were in your 40's, goddamm unbelievable even in screen we all feel that the voice was dubbed. Great, henceforth shoot videos with you on screen, you are too much talent dude, keep it up and let's all be creative with you, we would be glad to see you on screen every time.

[@mquintus3681]

just a suggestion: whenever possible crimp your stranded type wires. It might not make much of a difference with new wires, but as soon as some strands start to corrode, you'll lose effective diameter. Plus it makes repetitive "screwing around" (pun intended, hehe) easier and less harsh on the strands - Cheers from Trier

[@petermuller5031]

Thank you really much for the comparison! This helped me a lot. I think I will firstly get a PWM-Controller, since they are not that expensive and I can always upgrade to an MPPT-Controller later down the road. Enjoy your vacation!

[@derekvanderbyl4]

Was just browsing for controllers on eBay and wondering about the price differences. Great video - thanks!

[@NotSleepy]

nice to see you on camera. great job..

[@wickieworld]

Thank you so much for this. I know product reviews are not really your thing, but this was totally relevant. I hope to see additional videos like this in the future.

[@k1ngjulien_]

HERE IN MY GARAGE JUST GOT THESE NEW SOLAR CHARGE CONROLLERS!

[@Azam_Pakistan]

Beautiful handwriting.

[@stanleytolle416]

Now $8 to $15 for PWM on eBay for 10A. There are even some MPPT ones for like $35 or so. Yes some of these are not PWM or MPPT but junk. However there are some that do past review tests. Really teardown examinations are needed. PWM needs the electronics to modulate pulses while MPPT needs at least one inductor to do DC voltage conversion. These units are not that efficient but they do the job on small systems. Like a my 50w RV battery maintainer controlled by a $10 PWM. Essentially keeps the battery from overcharging and enables me to run lights, cell phone charger and vent fan with out having to run the engine every day. For $10 it does the job with the intent to replace it when it dies which I expect. With the PWM keep the cell voltage near what your battery needs while higher for the MPPT converter. Yes a good MPPT would be more efficient but will not make much difference with something so small.

[@smlunchen7789]

I had the white china-model in use for appr. 3/4 year. Pretty much the same setup, 100W solar Panel and approx. 70AH battery. It worked so far, but I did not trust it. It was rated 20Amps, but I put a 15 Amp preliminary fuse in series with the controller, and the solar Panel. The load got a 10Amp one. - I don't would recommend pushing these things to the limit. Last week I relaced the controller with the much nicer MPPT you showed in your offgrid Video. This is a very nice controller. I like the bluetooth features, nice for tracking the data.

[@kimo4646]

Good work ... Now I'm going to change my charge controller to mppt 🇰🇪

[@AmplifierWorld]

Feel good to hear you, also to see you

[@Nono-hk3is]

If you use the cost of power available from the electrical service as a comparison point for deciding how much to pay for a solar charge controller, you should include the non-recurring cost of hooking up to the service. You can't actually get power at that price until you've incurred the price of hookup. Otherwise, if service hookup is not an option, then it becomes a simple decision of whether you need the additional power provided by the better controller.

[@jeoffer]

The cost-benefit of upgrading to an MPPT should also be considered. The size of the solar panel system does affect any decision. If your solar panel system is small the money saved using a PWM may be better spent on adding extra solar panels. For me, I got much better outcome by adding a 100-watt panel for $80 rather than spending $130 on a new MPPT. I doubled my system size to 200 watts for less than an MPPT. An MPPT would have only given me an extra 10 watts and have cost more. By using a PWM for $20 instead of a $130 MPPT I was able to add another 100-watt solar panel for $80. However, for those with a larger solar panel system, it is cheaper to have an MPPT as the 10% efficiency gained would be cheaper than adding more panels. Eg: MPPT giving an extra 10 % watts from a 2,000watt system is an extra 200 watts. Lastly, the other thing when considering adding extra panels is that it would require more space on the roof plus the cost of wire, connectors, additional mounting racks.

[@houlej19]

his face?

[@greatscottlab]

Yes, that is my face.

[@houlej19]

GreatScott! that's not how I imagined you

[@TheAscBroth]

I thought it was a man that was like 50 lol

[@hilmialbums2692]

+GreatScott! pascal?

[@WannabeSpaceman]

GreatScott! dude you're handsome as fuck

[@shanefrisby1903]

Love your handwriting - so neat😃

[@samuelbudiyanto9719]

As long I use 200WP Solar Panel on the roof and take 3 years experience, I throw away the PWM Charging Controller, even the MPPT not enough good for me. I just put simply BUCK CONVERTER, convert the sunlight to the Battery with CC-CV 13.9V and limiting the current at 7A to 12A. Leave the Buck Converter doing the job, never having issues for that. As far I know, it just more more efficient than the kind of charging controller. Put simple digital Voltmeter-Ammeter for the battery and enjoy for years with simple and cheap way.

[@amargura7]

i was surprise he showed his self on youtube

[@LeelaKrishnaPakanati]

I love the low-key->high-key disdain towards cheap Chinese electronics he shows