Mr. House and Andrew Ryan Debate Freedom - AI Voice

[@ryanlaurie8733]

Ryan is an idealist. House is a realist.

[@patriot17764th]

Pretty much.

[@vincentvalentine4401]

Even if Ryan is flawed at some points I can get behind him. Same with Ryan Despite everything that happened at Rapture, because you never know when someone intentions to protect people slowly becomes the one to harm them

[@funnyjupiter4499]

Ryan embraces human nature's flaws and all, while house fights it for better or worse

[@smexehcougah3]

Ironic, since Ryan is more conservative/libertarian which is a position usually associated with realism while House's progressive authoritarianism is the one associated with realism here.

[@hexazalea]

Which is why Cutting his NCR alliance was stupid.

[@recursor9469]

Mr. House: I have brought prosperity, stability and security to my New Vegas. Andrew Ryan: _Your_ New Vegas? Mr. House: Don't make me kill you.

[@sithstalker770]

Lmao

[@imgvillasrc1608]

Tbf, this places Ryan in a worse position than Obi-wan. Ryan was the builder of an ancap society and saw it fail with his own two eyes which he was indirectly responsible for.

[@CteCrassus]

@@imgvillasrc1608 Actually, Rapture's fall was 100% his fault: His AnCapistan utopia had no proper way to address income inequality, which left a sizeable population of downtrodden rife to be exploited by a criminal element he had no way to deal with, and the moment there was a risk that he could lose totalitarian control of Rapture he became the ultimate dictator, depriving his own citizens of even freedom of intellect.

[@jeniskindof]

"Oh yes Ryan my new Vegas just like how you tricked all those fools into believing it was "their" rapture"

[@neilhannan5112]

It Basically With this Qutoe Mr House Philosophy is that Peace without Order is chaos Andrew Raye Philsophy is of Order without Freedom is Tyranny

[@neilhannan5112]

Or these 2 were in the Assassin Creed Universe ❤ Andrew Raye would be an Assassin Mr House would be an Templar

[@joshuagraham2843]

What happens if these two wok together and provide each other?

[@5226-p1e]

@@joshuagraham2843 it wouldn't work out, lol, they may have grand designs in their methods, but their goal to that end is not the same, and i would more than likely see them go to war over their ego's, i know it's weird to say a robot or AI has an ego, but often times robots or AI's are so sure of themselves that there could be no other path but their chosen paths, so in a sense that is where the ego comes in. i mean we saw the same logic come from another robot in FO4 by a robo brain robot who used the logic to end all human suffering in the most efficient way was simply to kill them, funny thing about that logic, is it actually makes sense because it would end the suffering because they would no longer exist, just as the logic of the institute in FO4 with Father was to eliminate all other factions on earth so that the future of the world can become prosper as the earth will finally get a chance to heal instead of the prolonged events of constant wars keeping the earth in the state of war and staying within that cycle. i think Shaun had the right idea, but it's morally wrong to have this as his ultimate goal or outcome because it strips freedom and liberty and justice and choice for all other factions that exist in the same space. but i agree with the outcome idea because that would help the earth heal so that they could restart humanity without so much corrupt DNA and factions constantly attempting on destroying the world and each other in that same process. morally it was wrong, but sometimes as a leader you have to make the hard decisions in order to progress into the future for a better outcome of that future or in his case, humanity could have better chances to thrive.

[@trianglemoebius]

@@joshuagraham2843 That's the ideal - when that happens, the necessary cycle is in place and everything goes well for everyone. The problem is getting them to work together.

[@Northraider123]

i could almost see this being turned into some kind of quote that loops back on itself... maybe.... Peace without Order is Chaos, Order without Freedom is Tyranny, Freedom without Peace is Anarchy i feel like it works pretty well in a "you must provide the first to gain the second and avoid the third" way but i'm willing to bet that others could think of better

[@TheAnonyomusGuy]

Master Splinter and Kratos on fatherhood, prehaps

[@TheCouriersGambit]

I’ve seen this suggestion a few times and will get to it soon! Haven’t forgotten about it :)

[@KingBullDogg]

Yes please

[@patriot17764th]

​@@TheCouriersGambitthank you

[@colddaze6680]

Lol I thought he was joking

[@maylabrown4584]

Master Splinter would destroy in a debate on that topic lol

[@MrMichaelHouse]

Mr. House is spitting facts

[@centura86]

No Hes an ignorant arrogant idealist Everything will collapse around him, if only for him, possibly, through his false actions, false values bring bad resolution, and change, as the only true constant, will lead to something new and different, far from what he hoped for, for he has not total control, no matter how powerful he seems and feels. If there is a lot of struggle and it better would have been avoided, can never be known or will be seen later by scholars.

[@xivit]

As always

[@AmericanBrit9834]

@@centura86 Still a better man than Ryan

[@redbaronace19]

@@centura86 and what if Ryan? An idealist who rushed technology and suffered the consequences of not being prepared for the consequences of the enhancement drugs he created. New Vegas works compared to rapture because mr house does not take advantage of people. Take the white glove society for an example mr house left them alone as the white gloves “promised to not be cannibals” clearly that failed Too much freedom is chaos too much order is tyranny house understands both. He is neither Cesar nor president kimbal.

[@Unknownstatus_521]

​@@centura86Well, he has been around for 200 years. While Rapture fell after a decade

[@williambowes-xt2sm]

It's like monopoly man arguing with Howard Hughes! You'd think they'd be besties or something

[@zenoblues7787]

Both these guys are based on Howard Hughes. The fact that they're so different speaks to how the same ideas can still be interpreted differently.

[@wiilov]

And how any philosphy can be bastardized by those that want to.​@@zenoblues7787

[@jonathanwells223]

@@zenoblues7787it’s like debating your clone after a decade separated

[@JoeMama-me2yj]

Ironically I could see them still being friends despite thier differences....two men who could debate and discuss among themselves

[@The-Big-Boss]

I think that speaks to the writing of this guy, able to see the subtle differences in their philosophies its so smart.

[@IAMELIPHAS]

Alternate take at 1:36 : Ryan: Is a bird elevated when caged?! House: 'Caged', you say? Hardly. If my people yearn for the 'freedom' you drone on and on about, all they need to do is walk out the gates, and into mojave, and experience the 'freedom' it has to offer. Nothing of mine stops them from doing that. There they can experience the 'freedom' of injury or death in any number of ways, each one worse than the last. The 'freedom' of accomplishing nothing at all, of stagnancy, of a meaningless existence followed by an equally meaningless death. The 'freedom' of having a slave collar slapped around their throats, or a gun pointed at their heads. The 'freedom' of digging around in the sand for the barest scrap to eat, the 'freedom' of having to sink to lower and lower lows simply to survive. Then, when they see that this 'freedom' isn't all it's cracked up to be, they are just as free to return to the safety and comfort of what I provide. Remind me again of what exactly happened to the people living under your so-called 'freedom' when they tried to do the same? Why don't we invite one of them up here and ask? Oh, that's right, we can't, can we? Because you murdered them in cold blood when they tried to leave your so-called 'free land'. For all your talk of 'freedom', the irony is that they're far more 'free' under me than they ever were under you. Rapture's 'freedom' was never more than an illusion, a bubble waiting to be popped at the slightest poke. If I wanted to have my fill of brazen hypocrisy, I have the NCR Embassy a stone's throw away for that. The fact that we are having this conversation here and not there should tell you otherwise.

[@trabadoireacht6545]

Fucking killed it dude.

[@wolfbane7497]

Also Mr Ryan what did you do with all those people that tried to express their freedom from your tyranny what about Frank Fontaine the man who had to smuggle in Bibles and cigars because you didn't want religion. You didn't sell Bibles you didn't sell crucifixes you practically opened a market for something that everyone demanded. It was Frank's fontaine's write his freedom to do that job but yet you found him a threat. What about Adam the market on Adam you allowed that freedom to run rampant and then you got mutated crazy people. But that was fine that was okay as long as the money was rolling in but then a war broke out and then you used an experimental hormone to control the splicers taking away that very Freedom you preach about. And then before that you had Frank Fontaine supposedly murdered just because he was exercising his freedom. What about Sophia lamb and her coat it was her freedom to have such a cult if she wanted it. Even you orchestrated a public debate and when she humiliated you your little ego couldn't handle it so you had to throw her in jail. Where she became a much more bigger threat if Rapture was under my management I would have had her clothes at my side you saw her as a threat I would have saw her as an ally and what about Bridget Tenenbaum the woman who let all this madness run rampant you did nothing to control to manage the excessive use of atom even when the results were staring you right in the face it was freedom Freedom with the market your own audio logs say that.

[@CainEverest]

"If I wanted my fill of brazen hypocrisy the NCR Embassy is but a stone's throw away" I fucking burst out laughing lmfao

[@tuauafiafiahoching1753]

Man I can already hear Mr House voice reading these lines in his demeaning and reprimanding voice and just awe in how well his delivery would’ve been. This is a well written piece of dialogue man.

[@MrTHEMONEEMAKER]

Well done this is excellent

[@Northraider123]

Hearing these two visionaries debate mafe me think of Ceasars whole 'thesis, antithesis, synthesis" idea....House runs a cold and efficient state, thesis. Andrew Ryan ran a society built to maximize personal freedom if you were willing to work for it, antithesis. So if the two were able to work together...it would stand to reason they'd basically create a perfect utopia doesn't it?

[@constantinethecataphract5949]

Ceasar ( and the writers) don't understand hegel

[@DrEpicPhD]

@@constantinethecataphract5949 Maybe that's the point.

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

@@constantinethecataphract5949 not the writers, they understand many things, Ceasar is an intentionally flawed character: he tries to emulate a society he doesn't actually understand.

[@TheCouriersGambit]

@constantinethecataphract5949 The writers understand Hegel just fine, Caesar intentionally doesn’t understand Hegel.

[@brandonlyon730]

The problem with Ryan’s society is that it can only maintain its values if the man on top stays on top which is Ryan himself. As soon as someone starts doing better then him he does whatever he can to stop him and remain on top. He’s also a massive hypocrite, he talks about the artist being safe from the censor, but as soon one person wrote a songs making fun of him, he had her killed.

[@tapewormrage]

Nobody wanted Mr. House to be right, but he was.

[@JosephShemelewski]

They're both right. Although I do like House offering security and work while not bothering with your freedom as long as you don't go murdering people

[@lunkycultist5519]

I did, if a person can make the lives of most people comfortable, enjoyable and safe then let them be ruler for life. I'd much rather be happy under a dictatorship then uncertain in a democracy.

[@ethaneldredge3994]

​@@lunkycultist5519 Yeah, I think it's easier to be all ra ra democracy! From a comfortable life in America or Europe when compared to the wasteland. House could build a stable and independent Vegas with little intervention in people's personal lives.

[@LaGuaridadeChaz]

@@ethaneldredge3994 The other things people tend to forget to point out when talking against House's philosophy is that he is, all in all, incorruptible. You cannot bribe him since he already has the monetary means at his disposition. Women, drugs, alcohol, luxury homes, are totally out of the question because he doesn't need them. The only way to actually have a way to alter House's trajectory is by blackmailing him somehow (very unlikely), or to offer him something that is productive towards his goals, like chunks or land near Vegas than can be essentially "annexed" by House. Also, he has TIME. That's something no other faction can say they have.

[@ethaneldredge3994]

@@LaGuaridadeChaz he'd be an excellent leader especially if the courier is his right hand man and gets him to care about the Outer Vegas area more. I think if the NCR withdraws , I really doubt that house would just let the fiends or powder gangers run wild especially with the new robot army at his disposal

[@Rubyofthedead]

Nice to see Odo and Quark are still arguing.

[@douglasbabb1725]

Beat me to it. RIP Rene Auberjonois.

[@danialshamshuddin]

Andrew Ryan’s actor is Armin? I never knew that until now.

[@douglasbabb1725]

@@danialshamshuddin Doesn't sound like him, does it? Then and again, I think the Ferengi prosthetics might have given him a slightly nasally sounding voice, so who knows.

[@danialshamshuddin]

@@douglasbabb1725 Apparently the Ferengi teeth did. Armin Shimerman said he had to pull out his old teeth (not like that) when reprising his role for Lower Decks. Granted, he still didn't sound exactly the same, but it still gave him that weird nasally tone.

[@Arkay24]

No effin' way, you've just blown my mind. I grew up watching old DS9 and TNG tapes!

[@enocescalona]

very funny to see Andrew be all over freedom, yet he brainwashes splicers, fires rivals and tries to kill them. He is all over control too, he just deludes himself. Honestly, i would love to see more of these two.

[@randomarcgunner4543]

Yes, and that isn't getting into how Andrew followed an ideology which is inherently anti freedom. At first glance it may seem that I am incorrect, until you remember that Andrew destroyed unions and had no social programs, which forces workers into an autocratic system where their bosses are like dictators.

[@Sonic8577]

Exaclty, Andrew Ryan was a hypocrite, It wasn't his ideology that caused rapture to fail, It was his hypocrisie that caused rapture to fall. That is the one thing I disagree with house on.

[@brandonlyon730]

He also talks about the artist being free from the censor, but as soon as one woman started creating songs making fun of him he had her killed.

[@nyotamwuaji6484]

Didn't he become paranoid and actually started going crazy? At least I seem to recall that being in the book anyway

[@TheAngryXenite]

He also preaches the virtues of the unfettered market, free from state interference, but once the bathysphere was developed and threatened to financially ruin him and most of his backers who'd sunk most of their money into the train system, what does he do? He forces a bailout to save himself despite knowing it would cast the rest of Rapture down into poverty.

[@MrCaputo90]

I would love to see more Mr. House and Andrew Ryan dialogues.

[@josephhicks6445]

The philosophical debate I never knew I wanted but I am so happy it exists. Thank you KZbin algorithm for recommending this.

[@TheCouriersGambit]

Thank you for watching! Glad you enjoyed it :)

[@BlueBoxRevan]

I role play as a Time Lord in New Vegas. This video hit home for me big time

[@jeniskindof]

Ryan: you cannot cage mankind the are not living not free!!! The quarry infested with death claws a few miles away:

[@paytonkraft7564]

I never considered how much I LOVE these two's voices. And their philosophies! So many places where each man is both right AND wrong. The two have so MUCH in common yet nothing at all. Two visionaries on the opposite ends of the same spectrum!

[@Zhuravliov]

"Business is the way to stay The bloody hand of tyrants Convinced yet? Sail and ask My buddy Andrew Ryan"

[@MrRolyat98]

Couldn’t stop watching. Two characters who would never meet who wouldn’t waste time debating each other. Yet here they are.

[@joshpelillo957]

The voice of Andrew Ryan here is very good! The little gasps and breath of air is a nice touch.

[@JoeMama-me2yj]

It feels haunting honestly...but my god I adore how it sounds,so authentic

[@samjudge1240]

Ooo, i just love this meet up. I would love to see Andrew Ryan meets the original The Question, since him being a objectivist, he would see Rapture questionable. So perhaps The Question meets Rapture?

[@samjudge1240]

The Question meets Andrew Ryan I meant, thou having Victor Sage question the irrationality and subjectivity in mortality of the city's anarchy, is a subject to be talk on.

[@astarteswillum5259]

I like that idea.

[@therealdankclank]

The Question as voiced by Jeffrey Combs.

[@Amazingmashups75]

Please do Darth Sion and Joshua Graham debate on Pain and suffering

[@Akial2935]

Ryan and Kreia could have some words on individuality. As Ryan is (as Kreia would likely put it) a slave to his principles and ideals, where as Kreia acknowledges people as tools soley for the self gain

[@DeathMessenger1988]

More like Kreia would rightfully call Andrew out on the fact he betrayed his own ideals and how his "utopia" was so flawed it lasted a mere few decades before imploding on itself. Even the Sith Empires (even Palpatine's Galactic Empire) lasted longer.

[@comicbookreviewer4856]

@@DeathMessenger1988 To me Andrew Ryan is like a Teacher or a Person you knew who force their views and ideals onto people than failing to admit if forcing it onto people is really going to fix anything as People need to see or think what is really best for theme or stop and think if forcing things onto people is going to fix anything as you need to help and talk with people in baby steps and see if they want any real help

[@OrysB-po1fy]

@@DeathMessenger1988That’s because Star Wars lore is nonsense. They literally made it completely nonsensical for Marka Ragnos to name Exar Kun the Dark Lord of the Sith when Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion and an entire sith empire was out there. Then the republic has to fight Exar Kun, the Mandalorians, Revan, the grand council gets killed by the triarchy of Treya Sion and Nihilus. And somehow the Jedi are just back and competent enough to fight an entire empire of Sith that haven’t been weakened by anything. 😂. Worst story ever written.

[@DeathMessenger1988]

@@OrysB-po1fy So... the lore is clearly too complex for you to comprehend, so you feel the need to diss the entire franchise in a discussion that has very little to absolutely nothing to do with what you're saying. Okay, I'll use baby words as much as possible. It's not "completely nonsensical" because, at the time of Exar Kun, Tenebrae AKA Vitiate was still rebuilding the Sith Empire. There's a time period of 1003 years between the Old Sith Empire's Collapse and Exar Kun's Rise to Power, and it took 316 years more before Vitiate's New Sith Empire could strike. The whole point of Exar Kun was not to replace Vitiate, but to turn the Sith from a hostile foreign empire to an ideological cause that could motivate Jedi to fall AND once again let the galaxy suffer at the hands of the Jedi's flawed teachings causing their own members to fall. Between the First Jedi Purge/KOTOR 2 and the Great Galactic War/SWTOR, there's still 273 years. That's plenty of time for the Jedi Order to rebuild, especially since Kreia makes it clear that there were MANY Jedi the Sith Triumvirate didn't kill (i.e. Bastila Shan, Juhani) aside from Meetra Surik and her Padawans. The GGW lasted 28 years, and it's clear by the time of the Cold War that the Jedi have been struggling to keep up. Or haven't you noticed that the Imperial Storylines have the Jedi getting their arses kicked left and right and constantly fuck up. The Sith's inner rivalries and fucked-up policies + Vitiate's own egomaniacal plots are the main reason the Galactic Republic wasn't dust. But I guess understanding all that requires having enough attention span and cognitive skills to pay attention to plot points & details, dialogues and texts. Hard stuff for the majority of the population, especially the people who think Disney Canon is oh so fantastic and original and like being coddled by the Great Horny Rat.

[@KRIMZONMEKANISM]

You know the weakness that is shared by Andrew Ryan and Mr. House? Vulnerability to golf clubs. :)

[@mercenarygundam1487]

Nine Iron, wedges or putter?

[@NexusApollo]

A crossover between Frank Horrigan and Adam Smasher. I wonder how that one would go.

[@Tonius126]

Smasher would see Horrigan as a simpleton. He'd also mock Frank having it easy while Adam has to fight hypersonic missiles, attack helicopters, tanks, mechanized logistics and proffesional cybernetic soldiers. No comparison to deathclaws, tribals and raiders at all.

[@blueberet0]

@@Tonius126 Horrigan would still destroy Smasher. Frank is bigger, stronger, and far, far more powerful than Adam.

[@mercenarygundam1487]

Just two guys beating the shit out of each other.

[@lindsaysfallout]

It would honestly be funny if someone set this up like it was going to be a serious fight and then they just smashed each other.

[@ArchWizardCj]

I have a gnarly one. Kratos , Joshua Graham, and Master Chief discussing sacrificing everything as Cogs to a greater machine (soldiers)

[@Lazlo117]

nice to see odo and quark together again

[@dubuyajay9964]

Which is Odo and which is Quark?

[@connormacleod4922]

@@dubuyajay9964 Ryan is Quark, Mr. House is Odo.

[@barchspoofpro]

Let’s all appreciate the fact that this is Odo VS Quark all over again.

[@funeral1395]

This could be a good one, Paarthurnax and Batman discussing justice and overcoming ones own evil nature

[@PauloHernandezXD]

Most AI videos are always boring with having a character like John Marston speaking Zoomer slang. THIS, this is absolutely amazing. And worth producing 100+ hours worth of a modded DLC.

[@ThatPupRain]

This channel is just basically bioshock infinite. Multiverse lol

[@rodguy35]

Ryan's Utopia collapsed under the weight of its own ideals House's collapsed under the weight of my modded pool-noodle warhammer

[@michaelwalk3487]

Ohhhhh I got one for ya, Frank Hoorigan from Fallout 2 and Adam Smasher from Cyberpunk, maybe they would debate reputation proceeds them more? Kinda a passing contest really xD who is scarier.

[@TheCouriersGambit]

I actually almost put out a video of a conversation between them instead of this one, but it felt strange having them talk, as they would both probably resort to violence after less than a minute

[@JesterHellequin]

@@TheCouriersGambit Regardless that would be one interesting 30 seconds

[@michealbadman6411]

Good to see Quark and Odo in the same performance after so many years.

[@TealAirro]

I like how House in this semi-respects Ryan for his philosophy. While Ryan is just as inflated in his own mind as ever.

[@WARMACHINE9824]

Could you do johnny Silverhand and lex luthor Debating

[@TheAnonyomusGuy]

Debate lex? I'd see Johnny debating Superman, but I doubt he'd even bother speaking to Lex. Just speaking on characterization

[@WARMACHINE9824]

@TheAnonyomusGuy you're right johnny debating Superman is much more interesting than Lex.

[@silverblade357]

Johnny Silverhand debating Lex Luthor would literally just be a gunshot!

[@abankson0346]

This is an interesting crossover between those two. I like how Yes man broke the fourth wall at the end. Anyway, can you do Aiden Pearce (Watchdogs) and batman debating or Alex Mercer (PROTOTYPE) meeting Albert Wesker?

[@MrJefferson07]

xD

[@Anonymous-yy7ur]

I was looking for a debate of these two on the internet everywhere thank you for making it

[@DaftDeadshot]

These are always so entertaining, thanks for the fresh content!

[@TheCouriersGambit]

Glad you like them!

[@MrMaradok]

3:17 DAMN, Andrew Ryan just casually calling the securitons slaves! House is gonna need some RadAway for that radiation burn!

[@ETTheFirst-hf8se]

A nice reference to his iconic words, "a man choses, a slave obeys."

[@TheCorrodedMan]

Ironically, the voice actors of these two were best friends after working together on Deep Space Nine. René Auberjonios and Armin Shimmerman. Those two were a fucking duo. All I can imagine watching this is Quark and Odo arguing in the Holosuite over the silly 21st century video games that Nog bought off a scrap dealer.

[@lunkycultist5519]

My head cannon In the mr house ending, he eventually makes another life extenders for a 10 intelligence courier, and the courier is an advisers to mr house.

[@ceccascorp8149]

Alternative take: when house says "how do you think i preserve my paradise" ryan could have said: -Paradise? Paradise? A place where the parasite wins over and over? Canibals, traitors, snakes fighting between your finguers, and everytime you win, it is not your control who keeps the city standing, it is your corriur's choises. For he chooses as the stongest should. In the end you are not a man, Hoise, you are a crackling computer beliving to be one. Dont you see? People dont come to vegas because they see hope of a better future, they come because they need. Either because its someone with some order in the middle of chaos or for the simple gable addiction, either way, there is no idea behind vegas, its not a beacon of hope, its a desparate deal between the hundreds of parasites tring to survive in your shadow, just like any giverment. And just like you saw with you very eyes in this very world, every giverment falls because war, war never changes. -

[@madlord124]

Now I want a Sofia Lamb interaction, she always been my favorite Bioshock villain

[@Emicraft555]

Carajo, apesar de no dominar totalmente el inglés debo admitir que los debates que haces apesar de durar relativamente poco se sienten largos y deseo que nunca acaben, buen trabajo

[@SlowingSun90]

please do another Fallout BioShock debate. I would love to see Caesar debate Sofia Lamb from Bioshock 2. utopia vs dystopia, Both were doctors who built their own cults, both wished to reshape humanity though by very different means. Both wished to changed human nature, though Sofia believed it would come from creating a hive mind through her daughter, whilst Caesar believed it would come from one uniformed culture. It would be interesting as Sofia constantly talks about the folly of tyrants, who by their nature tear down humanity for their own needs. In contrast Caesar believes a strong absolute dictator is needed to move humanity forward.

[@theeternalchronicler3072]

Would like more of these two

[@silvioxp1300]

Makes me wonder, if Ryan would easily agree with, or have some difference in belief, if he ever meets Zaheer from Legend of Korra, who I'm sure would have plenty to say to House.

[@artemisarrow179]

Mr. House understands no man, however accomplished, is not an island.

[@jacksavere6988]

These 2 actors played Odo and Quark on Deep Space Nine, so funny to see them reunited and arguing again in such a weird way😅

[@atlasgraham154]

House's AI voice is on point. Ryan's sounds like a tired Ron Perlman.

[@normalguy5208]

In the heart of New Vegas, in the Lucky 38, Two minds debate the future's fate. Mr. House stands with plans so grand, While Andrew Ryan speaks of man's free hand. Both hold visions of a world reborn, Yet in their dreams, the ideals are torn. "Freedom," says Ryan, "a utopia bright, Where man's own work shines like light. Rapture was my dream, a sanctuary free, But you, Mr. House, seek control, not liberty." House counters with cold, steely grace, "Order is needed in this desolate place. In Vegas, I’ve built stability and peace, A future where mankind can find release. Without my guidance, chaos reigns, Unchecked freedom brings endless pains." Ryan retorts with conviction clear, "Your rule cages man, instills fear. True greatness springs from struggle within, Not from a gilded cage, where all is thin." House remains steady, his logic cold, "The world outside is harsh, uncontrolled. I offer a shield, a place to grow, In this wasteland, where little flows." "A bird in a cage," Ryan declares, "Can never know the life it bears. Your city is but a monument to fear, A place where dreams are drawn near." House’s eyes narrow, his tone grows stern, "Direction and order, these things you spurn. Rapture fell to man’s own flaw, A lack of control, a fatal law." Ryan scoffs, his patience thin, "Machines serve you, but what of men? Can they not choose their path to take, Or must they bend until they break?" House speaks of vision, of a future bright, Where machines and order hold the light. But Ryan’s words cut deep and clear, "Without true freedom, there’s only fear." In this place of splendor and design, They argue the fate of mankind's line. Ryan warns of revolt, of dreams turned to dust, House speaks of control, of power, of trust. "New Vegas will fall," Ryan does say, "Your rule is but a fleeting play." House, unfazed, stands tall and sure, "My city stands, a legacy pure." The debate grows fierce, ideas clash, In the city's heart, where futures crash. But then the plot twists, the Courier’s play, A pacification field ends the fray. Yes Man reveals what lies in store, For House and Ryan, their plans are no more. "Surprising, isn’t it?" Yes Man grins, "The Courier has outmaneuvered your sins. He’s been through this timeline, seen every thread, From Rapture's rise to the living dead." House's grip loosens, his power wanes, The Courier shifts the balance, breaks the chains. No bullets fire, no war begins, Just quiet words in this den of sins. Ryan and House, once titans bold, Now see their end as the story unfolds. For in the game of power and might, True strength lies in shifting sight. House’s face, once full of pride, Now reflects the toll of the tide. Ryan, too, must face his past, A dream that crumbled, couldn’t last. In New Vegas, under its glowing light, The fate of men is questioned in the night. Control and freedom, two paths collide, Yet both must bend to fate's swift tide. The Courier, unseen, holds the key, To a future of possibility. For all the plans, the schemes, the lies, Truth rests in the unseen skies. What is Vegas, but a dream forlorn? A place where destinies are torn. Ryan retreats, his ideals bruised, House stands firm, though somewhat confused. But now the story's threads unwind, As the Courier shapes what’s left behind. "Let me stop you right there," Yes Man smirks, A twist in the tale, where chaos lurks. "Mr. House, your time is done, For the Courier sees what’s yet to come." In the Lucky 38’s grand hall, The future awaits, the rise and fall. "Your ideals," Ryan says at last, "Are but shadows of the past." "And yet," House replies, with iron in his voice, "Only one can make the choice." For in this world, where power shifts, The Courier brings a change, a rift. The securitrons stand, silent and still, Bound by a force beyond their will. The game is over, the players bow, As the Courier stands, the master now. And in the halls of Vegas grand, A new age begins, shaped by one hand.

[@BenHopkins1000]

What’s next? Blitzo (Helluva Boss) and Shrike (Monkey Wrench) debating their own experiences as independent business owners?

[@BenHopkins1000]

@pjusttheletterpreally.noth2995 Give it time...

[@henrycrabs3497]

​@pjusttheletterpreally.noth2995Yes, there is a Brandon Rodgers Ai voice

[@christopherbravo1813]

I dunno if an AI voice exists for Amane Kuzuryu, but I would enjoy seeing a debate between her/Remiel and Emily.

[@CopeSeethorntin]

We are not going there the fan base is to demented to be allowed in the fallout fan base. Not all of them but I've been through enough of vivsies comment sections and Reddit posts to know they must not under any circumstance, spread.

[@davidolvera1031]

Is this House vs. Ryan or Odo vs. Quark?

[@rangopistacho6928]

Its like im watching the polar opposites of humanity debate over freedom or control but manifested into two very well suited gentlemen

[@christopherbravo1813]

Regardless of how much of a point either of the two have, Mr House has one clear advantage over Andrew Ryan Mr House's philosophy, however flawed it may be, *works.*

[@Gun_Metal_Grey]

Never understood how people to this day think that House and Ryan are similar characters with similar beliefs. Apart from the fact that they are both venture capitalists and sharing similar likeness to Howard Hughes, these two characters are NOTHING ALIKE. House is a pragmatist, he always has a backup plan whenever the things may go south, but Ryan is idealist at best. House turned NV from band of backwards tribes and fight clubs to an impenetrable fortress heavily armed with his Securitrons. Ryan couldn't even avert the civil war and Frank Fontaine, his rebellion went right under his nose and he couldn't do anything to avert it. There are also differences in the way they interact with the player characters. Unless you, Courier turn arrogant and refuse to give House his Platinum Chip, he will, no surprise, be pretty pissed, meanwhile in Bioshock, whether you are Jack or Elizabeth, Ryan is always hostile and looks down upon you no matter what. House is the least condescending one in all of the New Vegas' factions, he never chastises and gives you more than enough chances to redeem yourself while you are working for him, the luxury NCR and Legion won't present you at all. Sure you can go saying that House is dependent on you, that's true, but regardless he is still nicer to Courier than NCR or Legion ever will be. And objectively the Very Good Karma Courier siding with House while presenting Barter check to General Oliver in regards to NCR leaving Free Economic Zone of New Vegas alone but maintaining good relations with and scouting its highways is the BEST ENDING a New Vegas can offer. Ryan deserves the golf club execution, House? Hardly, not so much.

[@_RTD]

1:36 GAURHHH NOT THIS AGAIN

[@blazermettro2059]

Of the two places to live Id choose Mr House. We all saw what happend to Ryans dream.

[@vos2693]

You do not choose in autocracy, autocrat does.

[@МаксимНиколаев-ч9э]

You are free to leave New Vegas whenever you wish, tho​@@vos2693

[@TheOzBear]

Suggestion : Joshua graham and Max payne debates gods existence it could be good in my opinion

[@joshuagraham2843]

I would like to meet mr payne

[@TheDentedHelmet]

I agree with everything that Ryan says buy I'd pick living in New Vegas over Rapture any day.

[@DiegoRamirez-xn7nl]

Dios te bendiga por tan magnifico vídeo. Es un maldito sueño hecho realidad. God bless you for such a magnificent video. It's a damn dream come true.

[@High-Pie_Chop]

I was not excepting this type of video...

[@devinmccanna645]

Two fantastic characters who I wish we could have seen more of in their respective games

[@DivineKnight_115]

One is an overprotective father and the other became the very thing he swore against.

[@HiddenGemHunt]

LOVE THIS. One thing, though. Just to match House, it would be cool if Ryan was represented by his photo wearing the fedora on a screen, the one that appears everytime he talks to Jack. It would here perfectly.

[@mr.gockderdudel9274]

The postal Dude and Joshua gram on The meaning of life?

[@qwertyui622]

The Dominion War sure has been hard on Quark and Odo

[@ras8472]

I need to hear Andrew Ryan and Joshua Graham go at it now.

[@noahberg101]

Mr. House: I survived because my mind was stronger then my body just as you who's will was stronger. Graham: I survived because the Lord saw fit for me to repay my sins. M.H: Is that it, then tell me was it God who dropped the Bombs? Was it God who smothered the world with atomic hellfire? Where was your God...when mankind needed him most. JG: He saw no need to interfere in a relationship in which man saw them as more powerful then He.

[@theoneand0nly874]

dr ford from westworld and Josuha gram debating consciousness and the divine spark of the human mind.

[@fasthink864]

Do you write these yourself or do you let AI write the dialogue? It’s written well

[@TheCouriersGambit]

I write them! Thank you!

[@Lord-Gazimus]

Clearly, written by a fan of the deep lore of both.

[@UnanimousDelivers]

Odo vs Quark? Was Ryan trained on Ryan's voice actor Armin Shimerman? It doesn't sound like him.

[@darthflipyap7040]

Quark and Odo arguing yet again!

[@fosphor8920]

House literally said he doesn't care about what humans do, as long as they ain't going mad. He had cannibals as henchmen when we meet him, saying that he seeks control is just wrong haha

[@constableconstable2563]

Both Ryan and House both make solid points on how their respected philosophies ruled their empires which both have their strengths and weaknesses. Rapture was built upon the ideal that humanity would prosper by allowing geniuses in their fields operate without restriction be it science, medicine, art or industry, even though this is a noble idea it is, however slightly naive because even though it led to Rapture developing advanced technology decades ahead of anyone else, it can also lead to people abusing their power. This is prevalent with morally corrupt people such as Frank Fontaine, who took advantage of Ryan's free market ideals to create plasmids which in turn led to citizens overusing ADAM and becoming psychotic splicers. With Mr. House, even though he maintains stability through thinly veiled autocracy, he failed to see that the gangs he recruited to help run the strip were plotting a coup against him. And the courier who could make the choice to simply kill him and takeover. To put it simply, Mr. House sees things in a realistic way where humanity needs to be kept in check with a velvet glove covering a iron fist. Andrew Ryan however sees things in a idealistic way where humanity should operate without restriction to reach their full potential. While this lead to Rapture's advanced technology, it also left it open to morally corrupt people who could exploit it.

[@1IteleportedBread]

have you taken your blackberry joy constable or did you forget?

[@Rangernewb5550]

The House AI sounds phenomenal! I'd love to hear him verbally destroy more radical idealists

[@AndyJP]

The Think Tank need suitable debate partners

[@rimfire8217]

I'm blown away Having no previous reference for Robert House before watching this and reading the Fallout Wiki, I think I get the gist; Authoritarian dictator who, in the aftermath of an apocalypse, wants to create a perfect society that can be truly eternal. In contrast, Andrew Ryan is an Objectivist who firmly believes in individualism, he created Rapture for himself first and foremost with all others simply being collateral. The overall philosophies of these two are in line with the tradition of Aristotelianism and Platonism. Ryan believes in a Free-Market Meritocracy that allows people to pursue their own individual happiness. While House believes in an Authoritarian Aristocracy ruled by a single enlightened Philosopher-King, Him. Both of these characters were inspired by Walt Disney by the way.

[@Princebryon1]

I kind of really like the conversation to the point where yes man was getting to the point of breaking the fourth wall and hey time travel is kind of cannon in the fallout universe because there is the reference to the Star Trek the guardian of forever. There is the guy with the mysterious Magnum. And even in fallout 4 there's a picture of him on the comic called the man who could stop time and the astoundingly awesome tale

[@Dragon66898]

As much of a Bioshock fan that I am, I’m choosing Mr. House since I want protection from someone that’s trying to eat my face.

[@AgentXA564]

I find it interesting that Mr. House seems to have at least some respect for Andrew Ryan while Andrew Ryan doesn't seem to have any respect for him.

[@RealCheemsJr.]

It's exactly why rapture fell. He believed he was the apex predator in the game of the survival of the fittest. He never believed he was wrong, even at the end.

[@ethrsag735]

Ultimately both are right, humanity must be allowed freedom and liberty to probe its potential, to test its perceived limits with individual beacons lighting the dark of the unknown. But in that same vein, such liberty must have a code to keep itself from allowing its extremities from burning it from the root and stem, snuffing out the flame before it learns the heights it can grow towards.

[@Spoomis]

It's hard to side with either party, they both make excellent points.

[@samjudge1240]

Another idea, Charlie Morningstar (Hazbin Hotel) meets Joshua Graham, talking about redemption, as each person has a different means to redeem people. It be also interesting as one is the daughter of Lucifer, the other being a Morman, so perhaps talk on heaven and Hell perhap? Maybe having Joshua Graham how optimistic yet naive Charlie doing in her child like means, while talking about wisdom and experience over blind idealism, even to a religious Man of Joshua Graham, he dose take a realistic approach to life, while using his belief in christianity.

[@CopeSeethorntin]

You are completely right as my main issue I have with Charlie is the fact this to idealist and the fact her idea of redemption is so over simplified to the point she sounds like a 9th grader trying to argue in the defence of Stalin or one of those MFs who try to defend rappers who murdered some one and go *"let my boy go he did non'then wrong 🗣"* from one of those memes. Especially since the universe of hazbin bands over back wards to prove Charlie right with absolutely no backing or actual deep thought provoking challenger to at least question Charlie's flawed ideals and were all supposed to go with it because shis the kind picture perfect princess. Sweet for sure but come on if you at least try to seat down and question the logic of the hazbin verse the more I become convinced there was no thought put in to *How* redemption would operate in said world. Especially since the searous is so black and white and unironicaly goes "the Devil was unironicaly the good guy the entire time boys and girls" since the only people who would have acted as a foil to Charlie's altruistic dream are complete incompetent dummies. Take a look at Adam who just a mysoginstc A hole who adds nothing other than being a shows local sunday villain. I would have loved it if there was an equally endearing character who would logical oppose and act as Charlie's foil interms of ideals and seeing them question each other would have been Hella fun. But allas we just got an over simplified moral conundrum that has Charlie's be right all the way with no one to actually challenge her. Best example being how the Angeles who created the universe and it's rules and yet have no idea the qualification of what it actually takes to get in to heaven or even how the process of getting damhed even works. With Sara the Arch angle who oversore the creation of the Universe and humanity admitting she doesn't know the rules either. This is built upon during Charlie's case against her with Sara and the Angles pulling the most half assed bear minimum reason for why people go to Hell or heaven to stay face. Like "don't murder people" or "dont steal or lie" the real obvious basics, and that was legit enough to put Charlie on the back foot and nearly lose out to Adam of all angles, till light of the fact the Angles didn't know how souls menefested (Despit over seeing the creation of the Universe mind you) conveniently just when Charlie was on the Verge of getting slapped left and right, absolutely ruining the Angles and there stance. It Gave Charlie and opening to fire back despite the ramifications of that knowledge baring so much narrative weight and making no sense to the point im convinced that tid bit of knowledge only exists to validate Charlie's skew point of view. And even though the Angles arguments were also pretty trash and basic to the point it felt like a Tumblr discussion section. It was ironically enough to put pressure on Charlie all the way until that mcguffin of knowledge that the Angles didn't know what the Hell they were actually even talking about being what actually saved her trifling and shaky foundation from completely breaking and collapsing. This is built upon on how Charlie despite knowing heavens corrupt and genuinely not know what there even doing (which is still dumb given the fact they created the Universe and it's rules and not to mention most people who go to heaven are actualy good people with the people who go under being repeatedly shown to have done terrible things) she still tries to help send them to heaven despite knowing just how scummy the Angles are and how brokenly corrupt Heavens structures is. With her singing an entire goddamhe song (which is catchy NGL) proving she genuinely acknowledgeds how full of crap heaven is. And yet still tries to send them to heaven. What's even the point of redemption and helping souls go to heaven if Heaven is just run by a bunch of holier than though prentenouse dumb D heads who don't even know there own rules they at the very least helped create??? And yet the show glauses over this very important and structurally set up narrative that changes everything we thought about the hazbin world world, to not make Charlie come out as an altruistic dummy who genuinely doesn't have a plan beyond just having a hope and a dream that we know for a fact is doomed to fail now that we know how heaven is really run. I'm sorry but Charlie would absolutely be torn to shreds by Joshua if they ever got in to a moral argument about redemption and who deserves it and doesn't, just due to how overly simplyfied Charlie's ideals are. Though they would agree on the very basics I do think they would invetbly come to blows with Charlie eventually losing out to Joshua. It would have helped better of hazbin hotel was more moraly grey and Ambiguous as it at the very least gives both sides and Alibi for why they took there stands. And it would have helped better if Adam was actually wise instead of being the shows punching beg as he would have acted as a medium to better argue and communicate with Charlie and would have allowed gradual conflict of doubt and character growth to Charlie's till she eventually reached a balance with Heaven. Instead of the show scewing and brute forcing its way into making Charlie right with absolutely no way of her being wrong what's so ever. As her Nobel mission must be moraly righteous with not hint of irony or philosophical conflict or even the questioning of its feasabilty. And those who oppose her ideology are simply an obstacle that must conform through hugs or be destroyed and burned on the hot pier of her pitchfork for hindering her benevolent mission.

[@samjudge1240]

@@CopeSeethorntin Err..heh, quite the essay you have made. Here's my simple conclusion, Joshua graham would talk to Charlie like he would to a little girl, or be a somewhat father figure to her, about right and wrong. I do respect Charlie good intentions, even thou their means are child like, I still value her good intentions, just her means be questionable, like making a hotel a group therapy session, then simply a Hotel for sinners and demons to relax and unwind their troubles in hell. What I would like to see, is Charlie run a hotel and simply talk demons and sinners of their problems, offoring place to enjoy and find purpose. You know like instead of "moral gray" way between heaven and Hell, you could simply have demons visiting the hotel to find peace and sence of "change of new leaf" like you would to a friend who is not happy. To keep this simple, I would have Charlie running a hotel like normal business, with the intention to help demons and sinners as people, you can have Charlie close friend, college, Adam and her father tell her how this is not ideal, challenging her ideals and keeping her conviction true, as she is the heroine of the story and you only want the best for her. And for Alastor and Adam, both could be won hearts and mind to Charlie, as well Angels would come to the hotel, place where demons and angels could be share common interests and be friends. I know what I would have is corny, and itself could just be ideal as her, just how I would set up is keeping it rational, without compromising morality itself. This show is still a lighthearted cartoon, so I would like to keep it that way. So to simplify, I would like the show be more rational and thought out by the creator, as I bet she don't understand how heaven and hell is actually be, while also maintain good values to Charlie and her friends. I would want Adam be more thought out more, as I bet he was made purely as a strawmen character, and not a the first man of god with years of experience and divine knowledge over the years, as to his perspective, Hell is a place for bad people and they should remain imprisoned always, so Charlie could challenge that as a argument. I apologise for the long comments friend, I want to discuss more, yet for now this is just a basic perspective of my words to the show, i don't like it yet I don't hate it, as I only want it be more care to the characters and writing be rational, and not a "look how edgy we are" like a child would say if he or she thinks what adults do.

[@CopeSeethorntin]

@@samjudge1240 I whole heartily agree sorry if the comment was so long it's just after fighting a pointless argument, tooth and nail through a hord of Hazbin hotel fans who would crucify you for calling out there princess. It was just a nice change of pace to finely find some one who agrees with my sentiment regarding this topic as the show of simplifies complex topic while over complicating basic topics. As the show would dedicate entire episodes exploring the complexities of whether or not murder or cheating "realy" bad, but spend 2 to 3 dialogues ochemz razering through kants entire autobiography on ethics without really adding to it. It's just become incredibly exhausting trying to take the show seriously as I feel like it's moved away from its main premise and over focusing on daddy issues 1 to many times,l and irrelevant character plots as the show begun moving away from the purpose of the hotel itself and towards random character side quest, that though contribute towards character progression adds absolutely nothing to the over arching narrative. Especially since most of the characters who could have challenged Charlie's views till she eventually begun to comprehend the notion on how whether or not her goals are achievable. Had effectively been nueterd, his father had just gone with Charlie after she talked no jutsud him, Adam is dead meaning theres no one left to act as her foil without being a deuch. And she had seemingly gotten everything she wanted and he had won and been seemingly proven right in the with no ideological conflict or any one to challamge her what's so ever. And I feel like the show is heading in to an endgame type directions where they now have to battle with the big and final antagonist such as her mother in a big epic battle. while the show most likely abondening the idea of the hotel all together narrative and story wise. Your idea of what Hazbin hotel could have been is better than what I could have ever dreamt up. I still think it should have evend the playing field between heaven and Hell through Adam and Charlie so it could at the very least allow character development for both parties as they learn to accept both point of views. As good intentions isn't gonna do much if the foundations you built them upon are destined to fall and crack. And I think Charlie finely comprehending that notion and learning how most situations arnt ideal and you have to cut corners and compromise on your Values is important for a good story. As Charlie at the moment is the text book defenetion of a merry sue where things just work out because this the MC and nice and where people sing combayia (is that how you spel it😅) while just ignoring the realities of whether or not her idea's are actually sustainable or achievable in full.

[@samjudge1240]

@@CopeSeethorntin I understand parts of your view friend, as I originally thought Hazbin Hotel was supposed to be a rag to riches story about running a hotel in hell, how Charlie wanted the place to help demons and sinners by simply running a hotel, like restaurant and to music events, as this is a musical show. I can see the creator did allow writers to loose track to the main premise of the hotel, and it did turn to a petty melodramatic family issue, heck Angel Dust, Husker and even Alastor was downplayed to a lackluster storytelling, i myself would love to see more Angel Dust Italian American backstory a little with his Italian mafia family when he was on earth during the 1930s 40s, or even more about Husker and Alastor, yet they seem to be put to the side to new characters that seem unessasery, as well have little to do with the plot or even the hotel. As for Charlie compromising hee ideals, or "cut corners" her values, I would think that's not necessary, as you can have her ideas challenge, yet still process to her goals, like how if Sonic or superman never give up their goals, they simply think outside the box and be creative. And I understand it can be frustrating to fans, even they love something, they can be in a bubble if someone question and criticize the brand. Like me defending Vegeta to DBZ fans who want to compromise Vegeta to "western" mindset, risk of distorying his character and missing the point how good Goku really is to him, as he what inspired and influenced possative to Vegeta by being the defender of earth. I think what I see in Hazbin Hotel in a nutshell, is it's disappointing, it could of been more focus and thought out carefully, rational and mature, while being possibly touching and cathartic show. What put be off is how childish and unfocused it became, being much like a cringe sappy Disney/safe kids cartoon show, then a mature, intelligent yet fun show about the perspective of Charle Morningstar and the nature of Hell to Heaven. I may be focusing too much detail the the creator herself (as well the people of A40 I think, or simply Amazon) yet when I've seen the pilot on KZbin, I've seen potential and simply want to be good for me to enjoy. Lastly, having characters profanity and making cheap sex/drug jokes, not what I class as adult, or if so, I find the humor and dialogue more childish millennial writing, then smart and mature. Granted, seeing how heaven and hell is made, is a reminder how modern creators mostly can't do heaven and hell right without trying to "modernize" the world and characters like you would to a California view to everything, when Heaven and hell are beyond our reality, making the fantastical less so, if you get my meaning.

[@GhostLink92]

This is the weirdest episode of DS9 I've ever seen.

[@enclaveofficerz3245]

Joshua Graham debates Qui Gon Jin please

[@ghosthuntergames9123]

That would be a interesting discussion

[@ChristianGibbons777]

I’d love to see a 3 way conversation between Cell, Darth Nihilus, and Dark Samus. All capable of absorbing life essences their own way. Imagine a conversation about what it means to steal or take/absorb other peoples abilities and their essence!…. Wouldn’t that be quite the conversation or argument perhaps???

[@DuskyPredator]

I would say at least House never pretended that he thought he was above others. Ryan buckled into hypocrisy when he banned the items that created a black marrket and then took out his competition and absorbed it under his control as a right. House used his knowledge to take advantage of the weakness of humans to build a system that owes him. Ryan talked big about people owning what they make, while ignoring the exploitation and corruption of his people.

[@MajesticsTwelve]

AI philosophical debates are godly content.

[@OhNotThat]

This is basically the CEO of Singapore arguing with the Owner of Ancapistan.

[@thirstysailor579]

2:50 I’d argue that House does have a human contact in the form of the player character, if the player sides with House that is, which arguably (depending on level as well) is far more effective of an agent to House than his securitrons.

[@CapriHorns]

This is art. Its performative philosophy..so aesthethical.

[@jsnap1]

Can't believe how seamless the voices are i can't find faults

[@The-Third-Rail]

Технократ и Романтик. Что может быть лучше?

[@darkwingduke1631]

Im glad Quark and Odo get one final debate

[@michaelwalk3487]

Wait! I know I just commented but I may have a better idea, Robocop talking to V from Cyberpunk, one was forced to be stripped of his humanity, while one willingly removed theirs

[@rng7197]

Mr house is perfect in this, especially the intro

[@crowreaper9393]

You know, maybe Mr. House and the Master could debate on future advances, one is mutants and the other is machine, maybe have one with the Father as well and they would debate about technological advances.

[@AuroraWolf655]

I feel like aurthor maxson and Andrew Ryan would have a massive fallout, between Ryan’s idea of no restrictions verses maxsons contain and control policy

[@The-Third-Rail]

Первые 5 минут - шедевр, фанфик после очень лишни.

[@JohnCastleSmokeless]

Missed opportunity that House didn't call Ryan "Quark."