Mr. Welch's Mad Musings: Shadowrun

[@MrKangaroo123]

In my experience, Shadowrun can be summed up simply enough: multiple sessions of prepping and haggling and getting everything ready only for the ork or troll to fail their stealth roll and you have to go in all guns blazing anyway.

[@swj719]

Back before FASA closed shop, the games Earthdawn and Shadowrun were linked - Earthdawn was the 4th World, Shadowrun the 6th. Several characters from the former are findable in the latter (Harlequin, several of the Great Dragons, etc). That all ended when the games went to different companies, sadly.

[@MrRourk]

The Thorn Queen they had some good modules in those days.

[@stephenclements6158]

Did you get to play Earthdawn? If so, any good?

[@edwinlamont4187]

@@stephenclements6158 It's very good. Our ref worked a link between the 4th and 6th worlds. Not that we could cross between them but things we did in the 4th could be found in the 6th. He was good. RIP Ken.

[@MrRourk]

Remember Vote Dragon 2056!

[@fsgtadZ]

Howling coyote 2024

[@stephenclements6158]

Wow, that sounds even cooler than I had thought. At a con next week, I'm getting in on a 2 hour introduction to Shadowrun adventure, and I'm quite looking forward to it.

[@bookwormbryan]

Great video! Love how in-depth you go into the history of Shadowrun and its growth over time. 'sighs' I love the setting so much, now if only I could get through all the crunch and get my players to try it out with me. All in due time, I suppose.

[@dirus3142]

I read part of the 4th and 5th edition books, and made a few characters. IT's not for me. It's just not shadowrun mechanically. I also have a problem with the world changes. It radically changes the world, and the mechanics to fit the new idea. The "the dice pool" mechanic is what made FASA shadowrun unique in the RPG world. It was a pool of dice you could supplement your rolls with. However it depleted turning the round. Want to get better odds shooting that mage, use 3 dice, out of a pool of 5. Watch out , that mage has a street sam body guard with an SMG. If he hits now you only have 2 dice to soak damage. He can shoot your twice. In 4th/5th edition the "dice pool" is just a label. It means nothing. 4th ed is a stat plus skill level roll game. The game calls that the "dice pool" There is no supplemental dice, or tactical thinking using them. Then there is teh wireless "matrix". Your new decker rules allow them to hack a persons cyber ware on the fly because lol no one thinks about game braking mechanics. How did he do that from 50 feet away? Well he linked his connected through the coke machine with a wireless connection that the stream sam was using as cover duh.

[@MrRourk]

Ahh the priceless look the first time you introduce the Murder Hobos to the Detective Mage and Swat Combat Mage. Good Times!

[@singletona082]

This is what we call a Reality Check.

[@templarw20]

"Yes, you can have top grade cyberware. But you have to have worked for this one company. Other players, please ignore the ticking from this person's head..."

[@MrRourk]

@@templarw20 have you like actually ever played the game. My post says nothing about cyberwarez. Reread it.

[@templarw20]

@@MrRourk I was more referring to a murderhobo player ignoring the GM's MASSIVE SMILE.

[@trynnallen]

I've got signed hardcovers of 2nd and 3rd ed. main rules. I got dragged into because it was being played in the dorms in college, and I said what the heck. I enjoyed it, I enjoyed the crew at FASA every year at GenCon while they were in Milw. They were/are a great bunch. We incorporated elements of Call of Cthulhu...because we could and gave New England and the Maritime Provinces a "feel" like some of the other settings in the game, including a notebook on "setting". It was very much a fan work for it, but folks at FASA were genuinely intrigued by it and thought it an interesting edition to the universe (probably just say that, gods only know how many times they were bombarded with these kind of setting expansions), but it was useful for character creation, a large handful of runs, and it got the gang out of Seattle and into the rest of universe.

[@misomiso8228]

More Shadowrun vids please!

[@allones3078]

One of my favorites.

[@NDLV]

I wish I could ever play a Shadowrun game that's tabletop that lasts for more than one session

[@Se7enBeatleofDoom]

Sadly Seattle still hasn’t recovered from the cultural cancer of Kurt Cobain and plague of hipsterism.

[@fsgtadZ]

Ive actually had alot of luck homebrewing locally relevant monsters into SR 6e. Like just ripping mystaran kobolds to reflect rhe "rez dog" problem in some areas

[@tactiti0n]

I hope at some point you'll do a full review series of SR books like you did for Cyberpunk : )

[@templarw20]

That would probably take far longer than even the Mystara series. There are a lot, and a lot of the books (especially the magic and gun books) are just updates of stuff to new editions. Now, the major adventure books could be interesting. Renraku Acrology Shutdown, Blood in the Board Room, and such. Or the major content updates like Year of the Commet (I kinda dropped out late second edition and keep trying to get back in, hence my dated references). Actually... Hey Mr Welch, if you ever want an idea for a stream, maybe a read-through of Big D's will and explain the entries that are references or resolved story arcs (rather than story hooks for GMs to have fun with).

[@Dariushellstrome]

Bug City was really great and if you want to make your own adventures

[@Dariushellstrome]

Dunkelzahn's Will has some great ideas for for adventures Sorry but youtube on the phone glitched, I find it funny that most cyberpunk style games didn't have a lot of what we have now. I'm not blaming the developers because who really knew what would happen to computers

[@russellharrell2747]

Remember both Michaelangelo and Raphael are good games

[@michaellittle226]

Thanks for sharing .

[@youcantbeatk7006]

Did someone say stealth is optional?

[@CreatorRob]

I see the sixth edition core rule book is out. Seems to be mixed to poor reception in reviews. What have you gathered about this newest edition?

[@twilight-2k]

I haven't read the rules myself. However, everything I've read and heard about them are that they are terrible and change/simplify to the point of ruining the game. It's entirely possible it's a situation like D&D 4e where it's a perfectly decent/good game but so far removed from previous editions that most "old" players hate it.

[@z3r0_35]

One thing to bear in mind with Shadowrun: this is a game where your characters can get very overpowered very quickly just by buying better gear. If you plan on playing for a really long time you should probably consider retiring characters that get too powerful or else things get a bit ridiculous if you want there to be any real challenge, like having entire kill teams of Renraku Red Samurai guarding some random complex or something like that. Maybe excuse it as them becoming a mentor to your new character or something. Oh, and reminder for those of you playing faces: if your contact list isn't at least as long as the rest of your party's combined, you're doing it wrong.

[@DolFan316]

Ah yes, the game that first conditioned RPGers that living in a technocratic dystopia is somehow cool and fun and only their characters will ever be able to get away with breaking the law even though everyone else in the world is under constant surveillance.

[@twilight-2k]

One universal in every version of Shadowrun is that the core Matric/decking/hacking rules are *terrible*. Every single time, they were clearly written by someone that does not understand computer technology. At least, almost every edition they got fixed in the Matrix book...

[@templarw20]

I got to a point where I would just give parties a free contact that was the decker/hacker, and they have an Oracle/Overwatch voice over the internet.

[@ShadesinMirra]

Any thoughts oon 6th edition?

[@Pinned2Five]

I thought the Underground RPG was the one you had a pistol that cost more than a Sedan. At least that's what it's listed in on your Livejournal.

[@Dariushellstrome]

3rd edition player over here, we really enjoyed it and I've always felt that these had some of the most enjoyable writing compared to most rpg books. Did they get crazy with the amount of stuff introduced? Yes yes they did but really it was giving choice to gm's on adventures and campaigns. Some gm's I've watched on KZbin don't seem to understand editing an adventure to fit the party and just run them straight. You could do this in Shadowrun but you'd probably spend more time making characters than playing the game after all the party deaths. Shadowrun had to be customized to give players a chance,especially if you had a smaller group. Bug City was fun but don't think your going to survive it's

[@SerpenThrope]

What's your opinion of 6th Edition? I've seen a lot of complaints about it, but some of the complaints seem to be annoyed that it's designed to be easy for new people, so I'm not sure the best version to try.

[@Mr_Welch]

Have not looked at it since most of my attention is taken up by getting my house fixed

[@Snyperwolf91]

On my experience right now i think it is a good starter edition. I started SR6e a few days ago and even i heard the complaints. But catalyst is actually fixing the game now with many eratas and its definitly much more playable than at the beginning. The edge systeme aint bad at all but i can understand that it takes some player agency away for a more streamlined experience. Im not a fan of streamlining myself but it has its benefits . It needs new content that solidifies the game more . Otherwise i can hardly complain right now .

[@SerpenThrope]

@@Snyperwolf91 Thanks!

[@singletona082]

'Easy for new people' is the refrain that gets screamed during any edition change. Translation: I don't want to learn new things and I spent all my money on supplement books that are now obsolete.

[@SerpenThrope]

@@singletona082 True, but that is an understandable grievance. I do like it when games try to be relatively easy to convert.

[@Sleepy_zzzzz]

3:04 Dude! The phrase is, "geek the mage," not, "shoot the mage first."

[@Sleepy_zzzzz]

Also you didn't mention food fight, the best module.

[@hellhammerCCCP]

I love everything about Shadow except playing the TRPG. My group and I reskinned Starfinder to be Shadowrun and had a great time.

[@Balevolt]

5th has some hilariously bad rules between books because the writers didn't talk to each other

[@redfeildre349]

I was one of the poor souls that bought the 1st edition. Loved the setting. But I've yet to play this game . After this video I think I'll have to check out the 5th edition eventually. Was that a picture of your shelf? I saw All Flesh Must Be Eaten on that shelf. I'm a fan of Unisystem.

[@Mr_Welch]

No, that was somebody else's shelf. I've played Shadowrun, but I preferred the Cyberpunk 2020 setting myself.

[@redfeildre349]

Not gotten to play ether. Hope t play them both some day. Closest thing I have in my collection now is Cyber Space which I've not even read and Cthulhuteck which is more anime inspired than Cyberpunk. To many games, not enough time. Love your reviews.

[@swj719]

1e was fun, but there were some balance issues that caused them to release a weapon and gear supplement just so they could introduce a few items that would make it easier to kill a couple of character types (it was possible to generate a character that would effectively never take damage). 2e and 3e were, for me, my sweet spot. I have yet to get a chance to play 5e, but I still read the source books because damn they are fun.

[@twilight-2k]

I bought 1st ed on the day of release (as did a fair number of friends). We played it once and put it away until 2nd ed came out. In 1st ed, Magic was 1000x better than anything else and armor rules meant that a shaman in leathers could shrug off an assault cannon round.

[@swj719]

Also, you sort of mixed up like 3 different AI plots into one. :)

[@twilight-2k]

Personally I loved 2nd ed and 4th ed. I found a lot of the writing for 3rd ed to be worse than 2nd ed (and the mechanics not changed enough to justify rebuying everything again). I found some of the 5th ed rules had some really good ideas but the implementation left something to be desired (alchemy was much worse than other forms of magic, wireless bonuses added that made no sense just to have wireless bonuses, etc). I have not tried 6th ed due to the nearly universally horrible reviews.

[@Snyperwolf91]

Im starting with the 6th edition . What i found out they actually improved the game and make constant erratas because of the backlash (yeah the edge-mechanic is still there but i dont mind it and see how it evolves) . For me it is a good starter edition because its streamlined and its very affordable for me . I looked up at the 5th edition and the rules fluff was too much. They sadly rushed the game because of the Cyberpunk 2077 hype which isnt understandable because shadowrun is its own thing and didnt need tge Cyberpunk hype to get good sales . But i would say now it aint that bad now. Maybe still rough but they can steer the ship back to its course.

[@seanjarnigan8978]

Knoxville tn is spelled wrong. That's kind of annoying.

[@artmanxp]

Love the lore just wish the player base wasn't so murder hobo happy

[@danmorgan3685]

I had Shadowrun 1st Edition and binned the game pretty quick. It wasn't the rule system that bothered me it was the setting. They used fantasy tropes as their gimmick instead of world building. Where Cyberpunk 2020 had some creepy predictive power Shadowrun became dated fast. Predicting Japan would be the world power after they had already gone through an economic crash was just one example. Take away the fantasy elements and you don't have much of anything left.

[@Zeithri]

Incorrect. You have a cyberpunk setting, just as valid as any other Cyberpunk setting.