Mr. Welch's Mad Musings: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge)

[@Iridium-77-g]

"Just remember this game is German. It wasn't designed. It was *engineered*." Top tier commentary.

[@Robert-fw1we]

Petition to have a Klaus Kinski picture in every episode from now on.

[@ren_dhark]

While I really only played the 1st Edition before switching to BECMI I still remember some of the mage spells, e.g. "fulminictus donnerkeil, schlaget drein schwert und beil" (-;

[@murgel2006]

Mate that would be a fumble in 3rd ed. because the formula became "FULMINICTUS DONNERKEIL - Triff und töte wie ein Pfeil!" ;-)

[@Red80008]

you're both such nerds ^^ and yes, it takes one to know one...

[@murgel2006]

Ok, this made my day: "Just remember this game is German, it wasn't designed, it was engineered!" Absolutely brilliant. Back then I owned the BECMI red box and DSA. In the end, I stayed more with DSA because the combat mechanics were more to my taste and I really liked the magic formulas and felt it more fun to use the incantation "Fulminictus Donnerkeil" instead of just telling the table "I cast magic missile". Oh, and we loved the fact that often gestures etc. were also provided. We often used and still use those at the table as well... 🙂

[@Panzerfan93]

the best thing about DSA is what they call the character sheet in german: Heldendokument (Hero document) This is the most german word they could have chosen for it and i think that's hilarious

[@madmachanicest9955]

I like the play needing to remember and speak spells.

[@verbandstasche2905]

In the earlier editions it was not only the name. Each spell had its own rhyme that had to be recited. Lets take the the "humble" fireball: Ignisphaero Feuerball - Gleißen, Brand und Donnerhall Ignisphaero Fireball - Glint, blaze and thunder roar

[@GreekGeek73]

Ral Partha Europe still has the minis for it. Lovely sculpts.

[@twilight-2k]

I found The Dark Eye relatively easy to pick up mechanically. Character creation is relatively quick with the races and professions (even if you modify a profession). The first time you try creating a character from scratch (eg without a profession), it will take you hours to do. I find the world to be much more overwhelming because so little info is available for it in English. I find that a lot of the world info reads to me like overviews with strong hints that there is a lot more info available (and there is much more in German - especially if you want to get hold of DSA4 Aventuria books).

[@tirirana]

Schönes Video, danke!

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

LOL, I accidentally hit your profile picture and the first thing I could see was that you’re subscribed to Noah Lugeons! Have to applaud you for your good taste in Podcasts!

[@fullovstars9447]

Many Years ago I got hold of a Dark Eye double Scenario - The Secret of the Blue Tower/Witching Hours and just used it for D&D.

[@Red80008]

HERESY!!

[@thorinbane]

@@Red80008 hardly, most people didn't run modules anyway. Homebrew is always a thing and stealing from other games is a time honoured tradition.

[@maggoli67]

"Dw i'n bwyta cennin!" Famous Welsh war cry...according to Brother Cadfael...

[@Whipster-Old]

What I'm hearing; Herr Scrombles kommt.

[@kvasir7537]

Den Zwölfen zum Gruße.

[@DwarfElvishDiplomacy]

First roleplaying game i ever played... I didnt returned to rpgs for the next 10 years

[@jamesadamsfl]

Mechanically this sounds like a nightmare, but I have to admit I like the way the magic systems sound. I like that they effectively make the war-mage and war-cleric impossible, forcing the magic-users and their allies to think more strategically. Also, they make for just a different flavor of Magic than what DND uses.

[@Red80008]

Well, if I might just say, your opinion sounds like it comes from a very comfortable place because DnD is easier and TDE is more complicated. When you learned TDE first, it's no big deal, DnD just appears way easier. To understand and to play. And that's completely fine, it just depends highly on what you're trying to do/play. So much for that. TDE tries to mimic the real world while incorporating magic and fantasy, kinda forging rules for all those fantastic aspects while DnD tries to narrow everything down to the most necessary values, so it's easier to understand, easier to play and especially make fights a lot quicker and movie-like. Skill checks are actually fine and take only about 33% longer than in DnD because , well, you have two more d20 to roll... In fact, if you ask me, from a fluff players' perpective I love that in DnD because I can just simply spend more time roleplaying than playing a roleplay game and roll dice all the time just because I can roll on every combat skill that I have, just to find out if it works rather than simply having it as a bonus to my basic combat skill. On the other hand I do appreciate the effort of TDE to put a more realistic touch on a fantasy world, because it makes it way more immersive and realistic (considering the foundation is rooted in actual European history a lot and simply adds every fantasy element it can get its hands on), makes me think about my roleplay more than about just numeric values (as in I feel how hard it is to learn a spell or skill and why and not just add it to my spellbook because I can) and lets me experience my whole character development way closer than DnD ever could. DnD is "just" a game, TDE is a simulation and where I don't really care about the fate of my char in DnD because it takes me only 30 mins to create it and I don't give a crap about its backstory, I do care about all of my characters a lot and I take care of them in the game. Because it took me a whole day to set them up exactly the way I want to play them. Another thing (and probably the biggest difference) is the magic system, in fact the view on magic as a whole. Where DnD brushes over it with three ingredients: knowledge, preparation and slots and then you can actually cast, no matter what external circumstances, TDE actually created a way of expalining magic and how complicated it is. I mean, seriously: a mage/wizard/spellcaster) is not a physical bucket just for fun, they are like that because they study most of their lives, so why not show that in the game? Levels are fine and all but once you know a spell, the only way to influence it is by casting it on higher level in DnD. In TDE once you understand what's happening, you can actually and quite literally "cast" a spell, as in weave magic into a spell, as in own magical energy and form it to your liking. You become literally a spell-"caster" and you get a much higher appreciation for the rarity of magic rathe than it being a mere skill that anyone with the right prerequisites can acquire if they wanted to... The fact that TDE has more numbers and numeric values to its skills, attributes, spells, life force and astral force makes it imho MORE believable and WAY LESS prone to loopholing, making the whole world more serious and me as a player more committed. I've been loopholing the living crap out of the DnD system as a player because I just fluff play everything and distract the GM until he/she remembers that thre's still crunch in the game and lets me roll checks. It makes me lose the respect for the rules of the world, because I get rewarded for loopholing my way around a task. In TDE there's no way around that, really and once I find a solution to the task at hand, I feel a real sense of accomplishment and pride. Because I understood the world, its rules and found a way to solve the quest whithin those challenges... I never flet that kind of pride in DnD. On the other hand I also never felt that rush of an action-packed fightscene with obscene movie-like actions and action and sort of landed in a superheropose at the end of a round and felt like the sort in TDE. This truly only DnD can give you... ^^

[@thorinbane]

I would say the only reason D&D seems easy is because there are so many resources and likely your friends taught you the game. Thats how most of us got into gaming. I still love palladium because after D&D basic it was my gateway drug. You want simple, but crunchie, mythras/BRP/CoC d100 games. You have a percentage for skills, which combat is, and you roll under. Pretty easy. My grandkids bounced off D&D but took to Mythras really quick.

[@HerrFenrisWolf]

Love the randome German impressions. Some just plain wrong, some pretty on point. I never played DSA/The Dark Eye but I aspire to do. Already created a Andergaster mercenary. I imagine it as fantasys Biergarten where Hänsel und Gretel leveld up after the witch and started slaying Undead Dragons.

[@zdron07]

This sounds great, i like the reading spells thing

[@janoschjobstmann4588]

It took me years to figure out drakensang river of times system i do not even want to know what Das Schwarze Auge will hold for me. *traurige deutsche Geräusche*

[@juancholo7502]

I bought the 4th edition English version when the company had a big push for it at Origins Game Fair years ago. It looked interesting at the time.

[@AlainproFredric]

Mr.Weltch, they just came out with the SLA.Industry book, and I bought the pdf. Would you like a copy for a future review?

[@Mr_Welch]

Contact me through the email on the about page

[@RevDrKillJoy]

@Mr. Welch, any plans to cover "Call of Cthulu" or "Delta Green?"

[@Mr_Welch]

Call of Cthulhu was one of my very first reviews. I would have to find a copy of Delta green that's not an easy book to get ahold of

[@NefariousKoel]

@@Mr_Welch - The latest edition of Delta Green? Are they sold out already?

[@RevDrKillJoy]

@@Mr_Welch that's right, my bad, I remember your Call of Cthulu MM. I guess it was more the Delta Green setting. I ordered it from the big evil "A" company, but I understand if you choose not to go that route. Anyway, just reading the rules and such I've found it's one of the best RPGs in the last 20 years or so. Anyway, thanks for the reply and I look forward to your next video.

[@OvaltinePatrol]

No matter what game he was playing, Klaus Kinski always rolled with a 0 SAN character.

[@springheeledjackofthegurdi2117]

I've seen the video games based on this system go on sale a lot on GOG are they any good?

[@Mr_Welch]

I remember the ones from the 90s were but the one that was released lately apparently is terrible

[@NefariousKoel]

Drakensang went up for sale on GOG recently. Despite having the collection on disk, I picked up the core game so I wouldn't need to bother with them. The character dialogue and such is a bit cheesy but the game, itself, is interesting for it's mechanics and character building. It does lend a heavy tabletop feel for a video game. On that merit, alone, I recommend giving it a try. Think I had to disable an in-game option, or something, in order to keep it working in Windows 10 but it wasn't a big deal. Mentioned in it's GOG forum. Hope GOG adds the DLC at some point.

[@The_Crimson_Fucker]

@@NefariousKoel I low-key hate when video-games try to be tabletop rpgs. What a game should take away from pen-and-paper is freedom of action, a maximal degree of freedom to pursue and solve issues and interact with the world in the player's own way - at least as far as is materially feasible. I find it infuriating when videogames copy mechanics which are _meant to substitute for things that can be directly modeled and simulated in videogames_ .

[@RuSosan]

Regarding The Dark Eye-videogames: *Chains of Satinav* and it's sequel *Memoria* are excellent point & click adventure/puzzle games. Highly recommend. *Blackguards 1&2* are tactical rpgs with no real free roaming but great writing. (You move from combat-to-combat or interact with a settlement screen instead of free roaming.) *Drakensang* and it's following prequel *Drakensang: The River of Time* are third person RPGs that have kind of an MMO-feel to them. *Demonicon* is a mediocre-at-best third person RPG and an edgefest. I love it tho, but I love all of the Dark Eye-videogames so make of that what you will. Not sure if all of them are on GOG though. (Edited a couple of mistakes to present actually accurate information. Mixed up the first Drakensang with it's MMO-followup Drakensang Online.)

[@wolfsruhm]

AKSHULY... sorry i had to. 4th edition already only had 8 attributes. Courage, Intuition, Wits(Intelligence), Charisma, Dexterity, Agility, Constitution and Strength. Those other attibutes of 3rd edition were transformed into postitive and negative perks, that allowed for more in depth customization of your characters, although some races come (4.1 is still the most played version of the game) with inbuild advantages and disadvantages already. 5th Edition 'just' brought down a bit the bloat that developed over the years in 4th, and reduced the amount of skills and also jobs as well some slim down tweaks to the combat system, which probably was one of the most complex ones out there, unless you really only ever touched the base rules.

[@vicentgalvan70]

Klaus Nomi was great.

[@jmcscore]

Hey, I took a look at the next game you're going to cover, and I can say you are right on the money about it aging badly. And the art is kinda grotesque and you're problebly going going to have to cover some of it up if you're going to use it. Also, are you going to cover The One Ring? I know that it's out of print, but appearently there are talks about bringing it back with a different publisher. Free league if I recall.

[@madmachanicest9955]

I think you should review kobolt at my baby because it's a fun game.

[@Mr_Welch]

I'll see if I can grab a copy next paycheck. Though it's probably going to be a really short review

[@Winterydee]

A RPG game from Germany... of course the rules are complicated! It wouldn't be a properly German made game if they were anything less than complicated!

[@MrfnordTim]

I had a couple of German friends in high school, and we played a little bit of what must have been 1st edition that they hand-translated. I don't remember much, but I was honestly wondering if they'd kept anything at all when I read the 5th edition rules!

[@murgel2006]

Frankly? 4th edition was a massive change in the fundamentals of the game and 5th edition massacred it. They even tried to kill the combat system and make it more in line with D&D's. Really sad, very sad.

[@lizardjr.7826]

You've done this and still haven't done d20 modern?

[@Mr_Welch]

Only store nearby with a copy thinks it's printed on Gold Leaf

[@CowCommando]

@@Mr_Welch You can borrow my Core Rule Book if you want to. Just tell me where to ship it that won't give away too much. I haven't convinced anyone to play it yet, so I'm not using it right now anyway.

[@templarw20]

@@CowCommando shame. I had a lot of fun running my Modern games. Thing could have done well with a Pathfinder-style slimming down of the skills, and was best if you started at 5th level or so to allow access to the second tier of classes. But I had a player shooting out tired during a chase by leaning out the passenger window and propping his sniper rifle on the fender... while the driver was trying not to crash. Nuts, but fun.

[@verbandstasche2905]

"It wasn't designed, it was engineered" … yeah, I can see that. @Mr. Welch, glad you liked it