As a DM, how do you deal with “Murderhobo” players who kill everything in your D&D campaign?

[@funnyblog100]

Oh my main quest giver was a lich. He had multiple backup bodies. He was primarily an artificer so you are talking to one of his robot duplicates. If you try to go murder hobo on him he will just bill you for damaging company property. I based him off Walt Disney. Lich who's real body is frozen underneath a theme park.

[@birdup1_2]

I love that, that’s so creative! A quest giver that’s also probably the final boss!

[@funnyblog100]

​@@birdup1_2 Oh he's not he will actually help you deal with the big bad and any other threats by acting as a fixer and supplying you on your adventure. But in doing so you are only helping him by eliminating his competition. All because you wanted to go on this epic quest and wanted the loot and reward. You could have refused the call to adventure at any time. In reality you are helping the big bad win every threat you eliminated in every town just helps him expand his empire and take over. He's actually affable and friendly with the party in order to gain their trust. He will even exploit the flaws on your character sheet. Hinting that he's keeping tabs. No matter what the party does he ends up claiming a victory in some way. In my game if I ever get to run it again refusing the call was actually the correct choice.

[@heavenlyderpfowl1180]

So walt disney with lmd's?

[@funnyblog100]

@@heavenlyderpfowl1180 More or less. I named him Sabastian Miles. Abbreviated it is smiles. He always introduces himself as Mr.Smiles the founder and ceo of the smiles entertainment company. Think something like Mr. House from fallout new Vegas. In this world he’s a lighter shade of black. There’s no such thing as alignment and everyone you deal with has some sort of agenda he’s just the most honest about it.

[@xei2694]

@@funnyblog100 That really doesn't seem like a good idea, sorry. People generally play DnD because they want to roleplay being heroic and doing good. A game where not playing is the only right choice? That's not fun. Also, after the lich claims all of his victories and steps up to take over the world or whatever, couldn't the heroes just fight him and stop him?

[@VidelxSpopovich]

The thing about the term Murderhobo is it’s thrown around a lot where it simply does not apply. For instance I played with a group once who I was working with to stop a cult. We found two people who were being hunted by the cult who we were told, in no uncertain terms, would absolutely be killed if we didn’t protect them. They tried to run away from us so my character chased them down and brought them back after knocking them unconscious and stabilizing them. I was called a murder hobo and told I was a bad person out of game for doing that. Then the rest of the party set them free and the cult found and killed them.

[@reaverfang377]

I am going to guess this didn't reveal their folly afterwards

[@ireneshelton3661]

Did the GM say that to you, or did your teammates say that. Because if it was the former, then they should have their GM privileges revoked. And if it was the latter, I hope the GM made the rest of the party feel guilty while you got off scott-free

[@VidelxSpopovich]

@@ireneshelton3661 So it’s funny you should mention that because the GM was the only person on my side during that fiasco. As I relayed above he had the cult soon thereafter hunt down the escapees and ultimately kill them which was later revealed to the party. Long story short the party ended up splitting due to that and other disagreements in-game with only one of the wizards and the bard left to take on the cult since my character had split off before, returning to town in disguise, since the local government was controlled run by the cult and our group of adventurers were on the run due to this. Now, the irony in all of this is that my character absolutely was secretly evil. But evil in that he only adventures to gain fame and fortune for himself on top of aspiring to be a crime boss. I bring this up because I had decided by this point to sabotage what was left of the party’s efforts. I messaged the DM in private and did a little mini session wherein my character tracked a high ranking cult member to their secret base and sold them the location of the party’s current camp in exchange for my character’s name being cleared in this region. They paid him 1k in gold on top of that and my character left to return to the capital city. The group’s bard was killed later when the camp was attacked by cultists and the wizard fled further into the woods effectively banished from the region. Now granted this was in a Westmarch, which if you don’t know is an open world type of D&D setting with multiple GMs and lots of players so that wasn’t the end of the story for my character. He went on many adventures afterward and by the time I left that group he was a well respected member of the capital city’s guard regiment and a very rich man, not to mention an accomplished criminal with a secret network of tunnels and at least one safe house beneath the city. So yeah, everything turned out pretty good for him.

[@ireneshelton3661]

@@VidelxSpopovich I am pleased with this information, and I’m glad the the GM sided with you.

[@dylanzlol7293]

​@@VidelxSpopovichlol, karma. Anyways, did your character get his good ending? Or get any relationships?

[@neochance]

Murderhobos are generally a symptom of the game system and how the gm runs it. As a system, D&D has more rules for combat than anything else, this unsurprisingly leads to killing things as a default solution. It also generally rewards players for killing things (exp, gp, magic items, etc). If you want less murderous activity, try offering quests with non-violent parameters or rewards for non-violent solutions to problems. You'd be amazed at how quickly behavior changes when players are incentived to perform non-violent actions

[@aaronhumphrey2009]

Solid advice. P. C.s that use violence selectively, as appropriate to the scenario, should be rewarded.. Murder Hobos in my DnD games are eventually treated like outlaws , with Cash Bounties on thier heads, local ' heros ' gang up on them, the King sends the Champion of the Realm to defeat them.. etcetera.. My personal favorite tactic of last resort is that an after the murderhobos have won a tough fight, and are standing around huffing and puffing , an Army of a hundred mercenaries comes galloping in on them..With the Champion mounted on an adult Silver Dragon , fly overhead..

[@vida2559]

@@aaronhumphrey2009 dont need a hundred mercenaries. Need a party of paladins clerics and some mages lvl 20 do the job. Like the DM: you are all turned to Evil, people fear you and now you face a mighty party of clerics paladins and mages who came to bring peace to the land.

[@Shades14]

I guess, but at the same time, players who aren't psychopaths should know better than killing indiscriminately.

[@unwithering5313]

Reminds me of a DM who made SO many things inevitably and unreasonably hostile to us and were dangerous enough so that they WOULD kill us if we gave them the chance... Yet he would pretty much accuse us of being murderhobos (even though most of the killings could literally be considered self-defence).

[@DHTheAlaskan]

The only time I had to deal with a murderhobo was when I really didn't have too much of a spine. Murderhobo in question was playing a "lawful good" fighter and any who dared question him would be threatened with being kicked out of his place. While venting to another friend of mine he suggested a diabolical plan. That I invite him to play and he makes a Lawful Evil rogue with the assassin prestige class (this was 3.5E) who was hired to take the murderhobo down. We got the okay for my friend to join because and I quote the murderhobo "we need a trap guy." So my friend joins the party and when the Murderhobo begins his usual routine my friend launches his net with fish hooks woven into the net laced with poisons that did damage to wisdom over him. THEN the net's enchantment of Hold Person kicks in and the murderhobo failed the save due to his now very low wisdom score. My friend goes on a speech about actions and consequences and how it soemtimes takes a monster to kill a monster. He then delivers coup-de-grace which sends the murderhobo into an out of game temper tantrum. He demands my friend leave and I begin packing up to leave telling the murderhobo I was finally done with his shit.

[@dylanstephens524]

Damn that's a good one.

[@xei2694]

Why do these people have temper tantrums when things don't go their way? Probably just like feeling powerful, I guess. And they've probably never had a situation where things didn't go their way.

[@Badartist888]

@@xei2694 I wouldn't have a temper tantrum but I'd be pissed. If I was doing something the group didn't like I would like to think an adult conversation in private would soon fix that. Rather than ganking my character via a ring in PC.

[@xei2694]

@@Badartist888 They kind of did have a conversation, though, as the rogue was about to kill the murderhobo. Yes, you need to tell them what they are doing is wrong, but it's also a bad character they made that should not be in the game. You also need to understand, it's not like these murderhobo players are doing this out of naive innocence. It's not like they don't know what they're doing is wrong. They're simply bad people, and talking isn't going to help with that. Also, as The Alaskan said in the beginning, they seemed to be non-confrontational and didn't really know how to talk about it. And judging by what kind of person they described the player as, he probably wouldn't have responded well to being told no, anyway. You don't seem like a bad person, and if you or I did something wrong, then yeah, talking it out would probably be better. But this case is different.

[@dakinademino977]

To put it easy. Strike one: Cops have been called. Strike two: Here comes the swat team. Strike three: is that the army rolling on you?

[@hugofontes5708]

The GTA approach, sometimes it works

[@nunyabisness1979]

My dm came up with concept of the god of slaughter. IF you kill to many innocent npcs the god of slaughter will first take notice of you, THIS IS YOUR FIRST AND ONLY WARNING. if you keep killing innocent npcs the god of slaughter shows up declares you to be one of his champions before spiriting you away to his domain to never be seen again.

[@d1nodray]

@@hugofontes5708 lol

[@vigorouslethargy]

Our DM has the exact OPPOSITE problem with our group. We're always trying to befriend/adopt enemies or NPCs. My favorite so far was a Simic assassin group that was after a prince under our protection. We kept the last of the group alive for interrogation, and after our Bard did some mind reading she explained that since she had been compromised her master would kill and "repurpose" her, so we might as well just end her life there. My character thought that awas a terrible way to run an organization, and offered to keep her safe if she agreed to instead work for us, citing the fact that we wiped her ex-coworkers without much issue so any retrieval attempt by her overlord would likely meet the same end. We only got to keep her for a few sesions before our DM had us meet with a group of Simics that had broken their psychic connection to their ruler to live in peace and took in our new friend to help her do the same.

[@yellingintothewind]

My current group all (cept one) think they are the "good guys", but reliably double cross and otherwise betray any decent character, while repeatedly trying to make deals with the CE monsters. They then are surprised when those CE monsters double cross them.

[@scrapbotcommander]

idk, that doesn't sound like a problem to me... it just seems really wholesome c: If anything, it just creates the potential for really fun RP in nuanced situations where you want to befriend an enemy, but the results would be mixed or uncertain.

[@vigorouslethargy]

@@scrapbotcommander We're currently in the fey realm and I've been tempted to try and recruit one of these little Waddle-Dee lookin' guards that work at the stronghold we just helped liberate. They're so smol and round.

[@jonathancarlson6127]

Told this tale before- I was not the DM, but when our story of unlikely heroes saving world devolved into murderhobory, our DM tricked the party into picking a fight with an old man who had seven canaries. It was like opening the Ark of the Covenant.

[@jollykirby2138]

tell me more, i wanna hear about the canaries

[@silverlight6074]

@@jollykirby2138 Google was actually quite helpful in figuring out exactly what this was referencing, quite literally just typed "old man with seven canaries," and the first thing on the list told me how many Tarrasques worth of trouble that fight would be.

[@oburci9596]

@@jollykirby2138 Copy pasted from a google result "According to the tales, Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon, sometimes walks the world in the form of an old man accompanied by seven yellow canaries. If threatened, these canaries will transform into seven gold dragons to defend him. He is often kindly and helps travelers he meets on the road - a humanoid face to speak with the cosmic power of the deities."

[@Roadburner4]

Oh shit thats Bahamut!!

[@wherewiiwentwrong]

Outstanding play!

[@Señor-Donjusticia]

Talk to the players first. Let them know you don’t want to run a murder-hobo campaign. If they ignore you after that, either end the campaign or do the in-game consequences.

[@BrianVaughnVA]

Communication is key; talk to them and if they're dick heads, boot them out and find new players. If they persist and continue stupid shit in game, boot them out after delivering consequences.

[@freeb455]

How to deal with murderhobos: unleashing the kraken. Simply have a cult be in the area doing cult things, and once a certain body count is reached, have the sacrifice of innocents power a ritual that summons a kraken at midnight.

[@Solrex_the_Sun_King]

A kraken? Aren't we in a landlocked country? Did I fricking stutter?

[@williamgearing4305]

Kraken lacks legendary resistances making it a fight that’s actually fairly doable. Orcus on the other hand…

[@funnyblog100]

Oh I’d just send one man after them. An old character of mine. A half elf bard so terrifying he earned the nickname the minstrel of death. He was a college of whispers bard with levels in rogue as well as the crossbow expert and sharpshooter feats. He also had a signature crossbow called the messenger. Had it modified to have a harpoon gun attachment. It was a speargun that dealt double damage compared to a normal light crossbow and he could spend his bardic inspiration to add psychic damage that scaled with level due to his bard subclass. He also had sneak attack from rogue as well. Plus the 10 extra damage from sharpshooter. He could deal more damage than a fireball spell without using a spell slot this way. He also had spell slots always available due to primarily using his crossbow. He did not fight fair. He also has an enchanted rapier called the lightning rod. He had a dagger of lightning infused into it. So if you have high ac he will turn it against you by taking advantage of the fact that you are encased in metal and electrocuting you for double damage.

[@jojogacha974]

@@funnyblog100welp ima steal that. My character qhad (pronounced car) has the eye and hand of vecna so yea I can just make him level 20 and if he catches wind of the party’s murder hobo bullshit he comes in taps them and if they fail the check they instantly die from there bones being turned to jelly. And if they succeed well let’s say qhad is frends with a rouge so he will have learned how to be a sneaky motherfucker. Also he is a bird person so have fun trying to catch someone who can fly and be sneaky and also kill you with a boop. And he is an arcane fighter so yea he would also be able to teleport. I love D&D

[@funnyblog100]

@@jojogacha974 We were only level 5 or 6 but my bard almost single-handedly massacred over a dozen men after they tried to get out of paying the piper by killing him and taking the loot for themselves. It played out like a horror story as my bard massacred then one by one before throwing one of their leaders to a horde of goblins he just tried to cheat after splitting the loot with them. An entire ship ended up at the bottom of the ocean along with its crew. It’s captain hung drawn and quartered. Teaming up with the party my bard handed evidence to the royal guard that this crew was part of a larger criminal organization and offered to help. Within weeks the organization fell apart most of its members dead or jailed. There were enough bodies to fill entire graveyards. Counted as a crowning moment of awesome for my character as he went all John Wick on them.

[@fleetcenturion]

It's not always the players... Player 1: We enter the orc camp under a flag of truce. Player 2: Yeah, we want to deliver the bandit king's head to the orc chieftan, so he doesn't attack the village. DM: OK, make a persuasion check. Player 1: What? But... We're giving him _exactly what he wants!_ DM: Roll persuasion. Player 1: [ 5 ] Player 2: [ 7 ] DM: The orc chief isn't buying it. Everybody roll for initiative! _3 very bloody hours later..._ Player 1: Damn! Glad that's finally over! DM: I swear, you guys are such murder hobos. 😆

[@d1nodray]

lol what

[@fleetcenturion]

@@d1nodray - Never happened to you? Playing AD&D 1e/2e back in the day, I could count the total number of ability and proficiency checks I made on one hand. Moral of the story: If you want the dice to determine absolutely _everything,_ roll up 4 or 5 characters, and play by yourself. 😛

[@eduardoquinonez2929]

That first DM has learned ALOT from the mistakes of others and probably saw more than a few attempts tried in his campaigns. Those are some great punishments and a lot of realism behind it. I'm definitely going to take these and use them.

[@wrenwynter9336]

Honestly, their just making the horror story worse. All their scenarios were about an entire party of murderhobos, which if that's the case the best thing to do is talk to them to check if thats the game they want to play: a band of villainous outlaws against the law. If it is then the DM has to decide if they can run that game or if the party needs to find a new one.

[@eduardoquinonez2929]

@wrenwynter9336 you're not wrong. But it goes in a number of ways. Sometimes you'll be a DM looking for a party and when you found one, it's with a bunch of murderhobo's. Other times, it'll be with a dickhead DM busting his party's balls trying to railroad them to tell his story. And everything like that in between.

[@danielcrafter9349]

​@@wrenwynter9336- believe me, the Players won't understand until your actually give them the consequences Until then, they'll just assume the DM is being a dick

[@GymbalLock]

I had a player as a solo character in a cyberpunk-type vehicle RPG. After engaging a police vehicle on the road, he stopped to salvage the laser weapons from the police car's turret, leaving the officer to bleed out in the driver's seat. This player continued to do so even when I described the flashing lights of other police cars approaching. Still, he continued to unbolt the weapons from the car. Finally, the police back up arrived. When the police NPCs saw what the character was doing while a brother officer lay dying, the police shot the player character where he stood using anti-vehicle weapons (leaving a mess). Then they all agreed the player character had pointed a gun at them first.

[@Marxon1134]

One of my favorite ways of dealing with murder hobos? Have a bhaalist cult form in worship of them. Imagine an entire cult made of edgy versions of oblivion's adoring fan.

[@mugenokami2201]

God? Why did you let the Demons play D&D?

[@aaronhumphrey2009]

Brilliant. And make thier ADORING new Bhaalist fanatics clingy synchophants with the True Believer feat..they.can rise back up without spells or components thru a group ritual..so they won't stay dead, even if the Murder Hobos kill off a few..and if the whole group of Bhaalists are killed , they come back as undead, rotting zombies that ceaselessly chase the P. C's. around..😂 Karma comes with Upgrades in my World..🎃

[@sniclops15]

By Azura, by azura, it's the grand champion!

[@themurmeli88]

@@sniclops15 Standing here! Molesting me!

[@tfordham13]

My favorite way is discussing it with them and talking it out

[@Docktavion]

I detested my old GM. He would constantly berate players for killing the likes of skeletons instead of finding alternative ways of dealing with them. (One argument he said in particular was he wouldn’t award any exp for killing a group of skeletons we had come across in a dungeon, we had to lock them in a room ((one that we never had chance to explore)), I argued back the room may not be secure, it could hold important clues, leaves us open for ambush or another group etc.). Whilst he argued over this he would fully embrace an half elf going around shanking and r*ping folk (because it was in is background that he hated humans). The murder hobo elf would wait until we were embroiled in tense diplomatic talks and then he would launch Molotov’s, stab random distracted folk etc. Eventually after he tried to r*pe a PCs character that he paralysed we killed his character off and the next 5 he brought.

[@BrianVaughnVA]

Ah man I'm sorry you had to deal with that kind of experience. Always talk to a DM if they're being shitty, or just leave, never stick that crap out. Though I will say it's cool to think outside the box sometimes (never just run straight forward all the time) - you shouldn't be rail roaded into that.

[@Docktavion]

@@BrianVaughnVA 100%, it was annoying as every time you tried to roleplay it wasn’t acknowledged or it was sidelined due to the antics of the M-hobo. he berated poor speeches etc. regardless of what you rolled, he banned almost every dnd expansion for your usage but Each session the GM insisted in trying out changes. Almost everyone objected to most but he just rolled over objections, “weirdly” they always favoured his friend’s characters. He accused me of meta gaming of knowing certain facets of locations because pregame I talked about some of the story books that featured these locations, all the while his friends had read the gm only pre-made mission and always knew when to avoid certain encounters/locations but this was always fine. The end for me came after he banned short rests (ruining 2 characters including mine, changed the barbarians armour ability ((but not his friends monk character)) and would ask you to roll and regardless of abilities/skills/prep etc. you would fail every time. I was playing a Jekyll and Hyde barbarian. High int and high str. I would flip between being erudite and “simple” depending on if I was raging (it would also change my personality from mildly condescending book worm to childish compassionate). I was creating my own “monster manual” from my encounters. I would ask/pay locals, guards, adventurers etc. for information /folk lore etc. Last time I attended, I was breaking into a Locked box. This was within a small room with visibility outside into the main room via barred windows. I secured both doors with wedges and a couple bear traps after checking for hidden doors. I had 4 characters and 2 NPCs on watch, positioned in the corridor and the main room. The next moment, I was attacked by 6 bugbears that had made their way past all of these without anyone noticing (including opening the two doors) I defeated these guys, much to the annoyance of the gm. I got up, ripped up my sheet and walked out.

[@talscorner3696]

Kudos for persistence...

[@Docktavion]

@@talscorner3696 it totally burned me out of playing D&D. The group I was in before was nearly as bad by the end. So I had high hopes this group was going to be better but nope.

[@oneangryboi408]

Um, maybe its becausse of my own experiences, but even with a chaotic evil character, I can't imagine having a character that r*pes. I mean, I get it, chaotic evil, but... It gives off red flags for whoever is controlling that character.

[@DYWYPI]

I hate what's happened to the "murderhobo" term. It used to be a pretty useful tongue-in-cheek way to refer to the kind of game D&D tended to produce - a group of adventurers with no fixed abode or particular connection to any one place, who enter a town, hear about a local quest or dungeon, and solve the problem by killing it, and then leave for the next town. The joke was that it was a more accurate, less glamorous term for "adventurers". It wasn't necessarily a *wrong* way to play, just a way of diagnosing why the experience might feel shallow or samey without taking steps to counteract it. But at some point it seems to have merged with "murderous cretins", which was already a term for exactly this.

[@hugofontes5708]

Never heard "murderous cretins", good to know. It might be inaccurate or downright wrong but I used to call wandering hitmen/slayers games like those just "hack and slash". Murderhobos as wandering criminals instead of wandering bounty hunters made sense to me because law and history often don't call those who kill whomever their side considered "enemies" murderers, just heroes or something. The more you know

[@xei2694]

I think it's a very good and fitting term because it describes exactly what it is: A character made by a toxic player, who has no backstory, no home, no connections, and no concerns, who goes about murdering everyone. And as Hugo pointed out, it's more accurate this way, because killing the bad guys doesn't make you a murderer.

[@xxscrublordxxx5652]

​@@xei2694When you stared into the abyss, and the abyss stared back, you blinked.

[@kyriss12]

@@xei2694 It only toxic when it’s just one person trying to crap all over everyone else’s fun. If you have a full party of murder hobos and everyone’s having fun with it, it’s just a friendly weekend one shot.

[@fanofmetal1]

​@@kyriss12it can also be fun when done in the most absurd ways possible. A buddy of mine had started a one shot, 3 people playing. I played a chaotic evil barbarian hobgoblin. I asked if I could min/max that build. He said yes, for every 2 points I lost in 1 Stat, I could add 1 to another. So I maxxed out strength and dex, and had con at a respectable 18 at the cost of intelligence which was 4 and a wisdom of 10(not a complete fool). Thus began the rampage of Manta tempest. At the start, the characters meet in a bar at the edge of town. Manta being the last in, ordered a drink and got into a conversation with a party member about philosophy(he lost). The they 3rd party member got into an argument with a couple of people at the bar asking about joining them for a party at an estate.(from Mantas perception and bad rolls they didn't) Manta then gets the bright idea to crash the party and loot everything. He interrupts the conversation and when disrespected smacks one with the broad side of his axe. The other Npcs try jumping him(they failed). Manta then proceeded to kidnap the last party member into his quest to raid that party and head straight there. Turns out, the DM hadn't planned for anyone to go to the party and that the party was planned for a follow up game if we chose to do one. (All player are now laughing). Through sheer chaotic energy we arrive out of time and space to find out it was a birthday party for one of the Npcs that were felled by Mantas mighty axe.(everyone is still laughing at the absurdity of it) That npc returns as a revanant with about 7 or 8 more with him. Manta solos 5 of them and the others are dealt with by other party members. We then proceed to take everything that isn't nailed down and leave. The DM found it hilarious enough to let me use Manta in a different campaign where he basically became the new crime boss of a different town.

[@chaozgaming8565]

The 'heroes' reached the sacred sword, a weapon created to slay evil and capable of stopping the BBEG. As the Paladin attempted to wield the sword, the touch started a flame that stoked across the paladin's form, burning him to ash. "I am a weapon designed to smite evil, and you have tasted my power, fiend!" An archangel descends, picking up the blade, and points it at the party. "You are not worthy of wielding my brilliance! Prepare to perish now, evildoers!" I could say roll for initiative, but the blade was designed to counter evil so...

[@derpaderpy4931]

My murderhobo player, I dealt with quite lightly. He's your common murderhobo Paladin. First instance, I had a story important NPC express a visibly distrust in him due to an aura he possesses. The entire party took note. Second instance, an NPC asked of his class. He said Paladin. NPC replied, "Perhaps it's time you started acting as one." He actually stopped believe it or not. He's not a bad player. Just a bit reckless.

[@Joshua-fo9zw]

Consequences: Vigilantes/City guards run down the murderer/s. they learn a lesson and can't go back to that area, or they don't learn the lesson and their reputation precedes them wanted posters at every city gate, bounty hunters looking to make $$$. they learn a lesson and can't go back to that kingdom, or they don't learn and their reputation becomes legend and justicey gods take notice and start sending crusades after them, evil gods look upon them with jealousy and send more and more bigger hobos their way, Assassin's guilds become upset that they're killing people for free. If they wanna be super villains I can run that.

[@Lonelysoul02]

I keep a karma counter through the DM, and as more evil actions occur I have it reflected in the world. More pestilence and diseases as those who treat them go to seek safety in other areas. There is more crime and I have monsters who grow stronger the lower the good Karma there is feeding on the sorrow and misery of the people. So where be easier for good players become near impossible the worse they make things.

[@duncanharrell5009]

This is brilliant! How do you assign the Karama meter? Orphan/Refugee saved +10 Good, random homeless man party slays +10 Evil?

[@Lonelysoul02]

I assign point values to certain acts, that my players don't know, but it plays on the factor that the more chaos they sow the less safe the world becomes because those who healer might not be great at combat so will go someplace safer to practice. This means disease and untreated conditions will begin to spread more, and become more virulent, as they kill guards, farmers would have less protection and it means the production of food becomes more stagnate and banditry becomes more prevalent. So it also a little cause and effect that I keep in my notebook which I tally, but it cause and effect really. Since like take out goblin camp that has been attacking small towns would be a plus 5 and a food production bonus. Where removing the protection be the negative 5 and food availability loss. But you can add a bonus effect depending on the scenario like if town has temple, and when they are really dicks when you have cost a god too many temples party can get a debuff or well a crusade.@@duncanharrell5009

[@wilkinscoffee4228]

The best way to deal with murderhobos is to talk with the players directly.

[@ShadowDude6488]

In my homebrew campaign, I have an knight order of Doppelgangers that pose as standard citizens, but swiftly act upon shows of unnecessary violence at the cost of the killer's life and the party's funds. This not only discourages the act of murderhoboing, but gets the party distancing themselves from those that do. Aside from that, the party solving quests and contracts with violence when it isn't called for usually results in reduced to no pay, rejection from hire, and bounties for them if desperate enough. If it gets bad enough, the forces of the BBEG may try hiring them if not becoming the good guys by trying to kill them.

[@amelialonelyfart8848]

My god that's such a terrifying concept. State watch of shapeshifters who can be anywhere, in plain sight. The paranoia and dread that could cause could make some great stories.

[@ShadowDude6488]

@@amelialonelyfart8848 They're referred to as the Deizen Knights, but their tactic is to use Hold Person to paralyze the target, Shape Earth to set up a block beneath them, followed by a beheading. Much like how a Murderhobo would say, 'It'S wHaT mY cHaRaCtEr WoUlD dO.', it's what the medieval justice system would do.

[@hugofontes5708]

​@@ShadowDude6488sounds cool and all but had me kinda wondering what adventurers are needed for. Considering these are any and everywhere, I mean.

[@ShadowDude6488]

@@hugofontes5708 Because evil doesn't go around and murder everything out in the open, and for obvious reasons.

[@hugofontes5708]

@@ShadowDude6488 still sounds a bit weird to me, I guess I just don't know how your world works. I mean, do your stories ever have raiders, village attacks, etc? I get the sleeper elite knights might just not be interested because of a code, oath, pay, or whatever really. I guess it just feels like some other story with actual autocratic authorities deploying thought police assassins and not just an elite enforcer group.

[@an0rangutan]

One thing I do is usually hide one or two high level sleeper NPC's into any given settlement that would only become hostile under certain circumstances. In a small village it might be a traveling mercenary of high renown, while in a bigger city or kingdom it could be a royal knight or mage, the list goes on but there's almost always something that would be above the party lurking in any given place. Second thing is most rewards aren't in the form of loot, it's information, spells or cooperation of a powerful potential ally, something you only benefit from if they're alive AND willing. Also everyone in my setting knows about the natural ebb and flow of good and evil, if there's a large increase in one or the other, something drastic can happen to even out the balance, if an army of demons shows up from the Abyss, shortly later a legion of fairy warriors may also appear from the Feywild to fight them, etc. So being a Murderhobo nets you resistance at any and all points in this setting.

[@0PercentImagination]

I've noticed the rogue players that try to steal from anyone and anywhere tend to overlap with murder hobos because as soon as people are sent their way due to the consequences of their actions they'll rarely avoid killing them regardless of if they are innocent or not (like guards just trying to do their jobs). Then it'll just spiral from there til the consequences kill the character.

[@anguishedcarpet]

Yeah this is why as a DM I just say "no" to retarded shit like that unless the ENTIRE party is on board. If they are they get TPKd and we start over with an understanding that there needs to be an attempt to actually play the for anyone to actually enjoy themselves

[@None38389]

What I personally like to do is presenting them an out when they are about to die, which is usually along the line of signing some form of contract with the "big bad", and then the story will enter an alternate path to break free from the contract which will eventually merge back with the "good" route where the ultimate goal is to defeat the "big bad".

[@DomyTheMad420]

7:20 "i call it the stick and the stick approach." "you mean carrot?" "no either you take the beating for the rest of time, or you take the beating for a year. your call." "I don't like these options" "neither did your innocent foes."

[@Skywarp2099]

In my session zero discussion, I layout that character types that fit into "edge lord" and "murderhobos" are absolutely NOT tolerated in my games. I have not encountered a player that hasn't turned one of these archetypes into a toxic, total party wipe, or extremely uncomfortable situation for any female player that sits at the table. Sorry, this isn't a failure as a DM on my part. After twenty years of DM'ing, I no longer have the patience to deal with the whining, rules lawyering, egos, and disturbing Machiavellian behaviors of some individuals. With that being said, anyone who chooses to subvert this ban is met with a rather unfortunate, and quite game ending, curse I call "The Emperor's New Clothes." Named after the children's story due to the effect, this curse cannot be removed due to its Divine origin. After a Murderhobo or Edge lord starts with their shenanigans, they're visited in their dreams by a veiled figure. When they wake up the next morning, all of their belongings turn to ash. If they try to pick up a piece of equipment, it turns to dust right in their hand. However, if they try to take someone ELSE'S stuff, it will ALSO disintegrate in their hands only to have it reappear in perfect condition back with the original owner. For anyone who has ever used a consequences based method to deal with these types of players, I can assure you that the last one of these murderhobo/edge lords wants to be is streaking in whatever town they're in with no possible way of getting equipment or defending themselves against the impending mob. I've only used this punishment twice: once on a friend who didn't think I'd do it (which turned out to be a funny story), and the second time was on a person who truly deserved it after they began making multiple female players uncomfortable. "It's what my character would do," is not a free pass to be a deplorable person. That person left the Discord and no one even remembers their name.

[@robertbridges2378]

Best comment. ANY Player that makes ANY Female player " ------" uncomfortable - Real World consequens WILL happen.

[@aaronmurphy5384]

I was helping a friend DM a youth group and they liked the killing and looting. And these were preteen kids for the most part, so I didn’t want to crack down super hard. When they went over the top and destroyed the goblin camp with fire, well, a lot of loot went up in flames too.

[@DunantheDefender]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. It's very rare that I've had to deal with disruptively aggressive players, but in those rare times I feel I did so quite well because the offering players "reformed". The first time, one player started a battle with a patrol of town guards. Their job was essentially covering the few miles beyond the town walls. The party ended up killing five of them as the rest of the party kinda got dragged into the conflict. But crimes of passion lead evidence, and a few days later the party was arrested. After the trial, they were set to be executed at dawn, but at the last moment I spared them the headsmans axe in favor of sending them on a quest. This was the quest I was going to have them do anyway, but instead of all the fun hooks I'd planned, this was the route they took. So that was my active method. The second instance, my game world corrected the issue on its own. The offending player struck down a merchant guard, then tried to strike the merchant. He was quite surprised when his blade shattered, and the merchant (whose shop was set in a remote area far outside of the city) began to lecture the fool on manners while slowly reverting to his true form, that of an Ancient Red Dragon. After a suitable demonstration of force, he came back from the edge of anger and explained to the PC that his shop was all the way out here so that his form didn't damage the town should he be angered, and to give him time to gather information on anyone who came to visit. He then proceeded to enumerate every important person and place in the PC's backstory, and describe how he would incinerate literally everything that player had ever held dear. He then extracted the necessary gold to pay for his slain guard's resurrection.

[@graveyardshift2100]

Playing in the standard Forgotten Realms? A lone dark elf with dual scimitars appears. They don't hear the 600 pound panther approaching behind them.

[@danpitzer765]

Who needs to do that? Are you anywhere /vaguely/ in the north of the moonsea? Between the Baneites and Tormites, there's nowhere to hide. Just a question. Holy smiting or heads on pikes as a warning. Powerful militant churches with literal government power and dogma that flat out commands the termination of people like that. One good, one evil, they both agree on that point.

[@anonydun82fgoog35]

Drizzt and Guenwhyvar!

[@Kylesico912x]

Might as well throw all the famous ones at them. Drizzt and Guenwhyvar. Why not also throw Minsc and Boo. Some Jahiera... Can honestly keep going down the list til you have a solid murder hobo hunting party.

[@themurmeli88]

Hey, I know this one! Ok, so the tactic is to position party members around Drizzt (box him in) and then remove those party members from your party. Then attack Drizzt with ranged weapon, since he is boxed in by the NPCs he can't hit you, and he won't attack neutral NPCs.

[@graveyardshift2100]

@@themurmeli88 you forgot the 600 pound panther that is now stealthily and quickly picking off your archers, and now you can't see because Drizzt cast darkness which he can see through, also he has deflect arrows.

[@GalisSlipscale]

I had a very... insistent party who was genuinely convinced that murdering everyone who disagreed with them, refused them, or even just didn't help them fast enough was a 'good thing to do' because they (the party) opposed the greater-scope villain and anything was justifiable in that end. All were classes that had no bigger authority figure necessary (2x fighters, barbarian, wizard and a rogue). I just stopped bothering to correct their conception of alignment and instead shifted around who would deal with them. They did not even seem to care that their 'patron quest-giver' shifted from being the king to a green dragon. They liked the green dragon better. He showered them with trinkets and didn't care how big a body count they left behind as long as they got the mission done. It worked out pretty well over all; the green dragon also opposed the greater scope villain after all, and the party enjoyed 'making examples' out of towns that didn't 'fully contribute' to the effort. Eventually they overthrew the local kingdom and installed the dragon as a tyrant, and were his favorite band of 'problem solvers'. Meanwhile the dragon had a super easy time controlling them - they responded really well to flattery, a bit of gold, and the opportunity to commit violence, and they hated being scolded about collateral damage, so the dragon never did (whereas the king had actually cared about such). The only weird part about it was how, if you read their character sheets (that they controlled, not my copies), they were still all lawful good, except the chaotic neutral rogue - who, by the way, was the ONLY party member to ever oppose plans like 'hanging shopkeeps by their thumbs for not providing big enough discounts' and things like that. They were absolutely adamant that 'ends justifies the means'. Everyone had fun in the game but man they had a strange outlook.

[@theoverseer9153]

The simplest form i found is that word of their troubledoing would reach the ear of a local hero or guild that would either go themself or send and elite team to eliminate them.

[@NeedsContent]

Murder Hobo players are actually some of the most fun to play with because they can be easily baited into terrible situations. And believe me, they will take the bait pretty much every time. One guy I DM'd for, his character went off on his own, to indulge in his murder-hoboing ways and ended up getting a dubious invite from some shady character. He accepted the invite and was lured into a secret, underground den of "murder and debauchery" where he eventually came face-to-face with a master vampire. The character got to play out his darkest desires as his mind was being hollowed out by the master vampire and became a thrall.

[@BHJ-YM]

Like everyone else it all comes down to in-game consequences. That said, I made an NPC that's basically a litmus test for murder hoboing behavior and an immediate punishment should the players engage. I would like to introduce to you all Terry the level 3 red dragonborn wizard. A humble jolly shopkeeper with an inventory of rare magical items. Adorned in colorful but largely unremarkable robes he travels from town to town selling his wares at reasonable prices to those who would do business respectfully. He's intended to be a quest giver and a way to give the party a small boost earlier in the campaign. That said, should the group try to kill him and take his stuff, well, Terry the Dragonborn will reveal himself to be Terry the Teleporting Tarrasque and it's basically TPK time. To be clear, this dude is selling his wares in a marketplace out in the open. There are town guards patrolling and all that. The scenario is set up in such a way that no reasonable person would think robbing is a good idea.

[@evanhuizenga8626]

Okay but why go to such extreme lengths? At that point you are basically making it crystal clear that YOU, as the GM, are punishing the player for their behavior; it has nothing to do with "actions have consequences" because terrasques don't polymorph themselves into mortals and live life as humble merchants, unless that's part of your homebrew lore or something idk Why not have city guards arrest them? Or have the merchant's guild send bounty hunters after them? Those are realistic and reasonable consequences. You point out that a reasonable person would think robbing is a bad idea because there are town guards patrolling, but your consequence for evil behavior is very far from reasonable lol. That said, I'm not telling you how to DM. Just questioning the apparent disconnect between "a reasonable person would know this is a bad idea", and "no reasonable person would be able to predict this as a consequence"

[@BHJ-YM]

@@evanhuizenga8626 I can see where you would see a clear disconnect there. To clarify, Terry is unique in that I don't run any other NPC that does exactly what he does. He is broken and is intended to only appear once. I have other similar NPCs that exist but none of them are there to punish the players (unless they do something stupid). An example would be the level 14 fighter waiting tables at the put to pay off a debt. He isn't designed as an encounter. Just a dude who will jump in to help the PCs if something goes down in the bar assuming they weren't at fault. To elaborate on something I, admittingly, should have put in my original post: if the party engages Terry in the market he will tank the attack, yell out for help, and teleport away leaving them to deal with the reasonable consequences. If he is isolated, say in a scenario where the party follows him into an alley or out of town and try to gank him then the tpk encounter will happen. Additionally, he will only attack the people who attack him first. If there is only one player who is out to kill him and the rest of the party stays out of it then only that one player will die. To add a bit more context as well, I play with a tight knit friend group and I am normally not DMing. Not great at it yet, but I'm trying to get better. With all that said, I have a long history of making similarly unassuming characters (mostly as PCs) and the players know that as we've been friends for anywhere between 5-15 years. They are in on the joke. I do appreciate the input though. Hearing an outside perspective helps me understand how people will perceive my somewhat insane ideas and that helps a lot. So, yeah, thanks.

[@wolfyblackknight8321]

I might have to make that an npc in My world its a soild idea

[@hasanmuttaqin464]

I played as player on my friends campaign, the afformentioned friend you see.. is also a player of previous campaign i DMed, and he was a murderhobo, i flip the table on him, i attack the lvl 20 task giver, burn a forest, and kill cr 5 fiend at level 3rd

[@waywardwarrior2817]

an idea I've always had is make the BBEG a necromancer have him reanimate every character the party kills directly or indirectly watch the party get overwhelmed by the corpses they created

[@danielhale1]

I like the last story the most. Yes you need consequences for the rational players, but even so, the first option should be talking to the players and asking why they're doing this. Set expectations and boundaries. A murderhobo campaign is an option, but only if the GM and other players are entirely comfortable with that. And if someone is just there to ruin the game, be prepared to kick them out or walk away. When someone at the table is it total psycho power fantasy mode, killing and torturing people to get what he wants, it's important to not try to engage with them in the game or at all: enforce a hard line. They will *not* behave that way, or else they're off the table. It's not your burden to work with someone that defective.

[@avakio19]

As a DM, my understanding is that Murder Hoboing is a symptom of boredom or a lack of consequences. So the best way to avoid it is to engage in the player's actions and backstory. And to also make sure you throw a healthy amount of combat encounters for them to duke it out with. But it also helps if you demonstrate that you are willing to take off the kiddie gloves and show a willingness to throw in the works, whether its ability score damage from shadows and shadow assassins, power word kill, exhaustion, feeblemind, stuff like intellect devourers, etc. Players can and should have the option to murderhobo their way through encounters, how far into the murderhoboing they get to enjoy it is another story. Much like how Baldur's Gate shows us that you have to be smart about picking your fights, make sure you let the players understand how fucked they are on initiative if they pick a fight with the guards or attempt to threaten an elected official, and you'll find they're a lot less willing to pick fights with neutral entities. Also, environmental/traps are important. In the existing RAW there's Glyph of Warding, Symbol, Hallow, but making it so that there's effects like Extradimensional Interference (but on humanoids) or including things like Wizard Towers helps too. In a world where a single dude can potentially call a meteor swarm at least once a day, odds are someone has thought of a countermeasure to prevent the massive amount of death that would potentially bring to a stationary city. If there isn't, you are basically stating that high level magic isn't used in wars, which is an insanely stupid thing to insinuate since things like the Geneva Convention are regularly ignored by countries that are actually fighting in wars. Such a countermeasure likely won't be mobile, and definitely requires magical power, but in a stationary city that's large and wealthy enough, its not the craziest defense that could be put in place.

[@fatcoyote2]

Gave them a single +3 Vorpal Longsword that could not be sheathed. Did not need attunement. Literally anyone could wield it. Since it could not be sheathed, they had to walk around with a naked blade at all times. If they rolled a 1 while holding it, which they always had to be, they had to roll to hit themselves. Had to roll once an hour to see if they had an accident. Couldn't leave it alone, because every time they did, I had someone find it and use it on them. People would see them walking around with naked steel and act accordingly, with consequences. Accidentally skewered their horses, shopkeepers, random villagers, etc. many times. Turns out, swords a dangerous!

[@junbathory2362]

Once, one of our players was going that route at the detriment of everyone else's fun. What our DM did when we got fed up, at some point, is when he rolled a perception check, the DM broke the fourth wall and destroyed the character's mind so he became a vegetable. For the sake of making it not too unfair, though, he had the right to throwing the dice five times in total until he rolled a Nat 20. He did not. He fell flat moments after that happened, our party was shocked at the turn of events! So we turned around shrugging, resuming our task together muttering to ourselves "Must have been my imagination..." We carted his body back to town with the bulky quest item we were after and sold him to black marketeers, premium price too since he was in top form. He was used to provide entertaining and vengeful relief to all he caused to grieve. He ultimately died by tomato throws.

[@comatosesage7232]

I did a murder hobo thing in the last session our group had. We had just taken down the leader of a group of bandits capturing and selling animals for profit. The handful of bandits remaining had surrendered and had been put into one of the cages previously occupied by captured animals to be taken to the proper authorities later. My character, a warlock, has a deal with their patron that he will take life force for them in exchange for his warlock powers, seeing a sizable payment to pay down his loan he couldn’t resist the temptation and cast cloud of daggers inside the cage, effectively creating a bandit blender, after some token shock and horror from the party (our group loved the carnage) our DM described my Warlock Sword being enhanced with an additional 2d6 to damage rolls. TL;DR I murder hobo’ed and was rewarded with extra murder power.

[@splatninja9447]

Ny favorite was a cursed vorpal blade. If you killed with it you'd take 2d8 psychic damage, after a time as the curse grew stronger itd become 3d8 4d8 etc. But if you rolled a crit, as your foes body falls, your eyes grow dim, breathing becomes difficult, your party watches as your lifeless body collapses to the ground. A screech of pure terror eminates from the blade, as your soul becomes bound to the curse it holds. Fun part, removing the curse destroys the weapon.

[@firstnamelastname9794]

One possible way, maybe as a next-to-last resort if they become too powerful for the local law enforcement or bounty hunters or certain monsters to defeat, is to start a new party (possibly with brand new human players) and make the first party into the BBEGs. If there are new players, then the final boss encounter would be the second party attempting to defeat the first party, with both sets of players there. But if the second party turns into murderhobos......well, then it's time to take up beekeeping or something.

[@Miranda17137]

i'd love to hit a murderhobo party with 'the caesar has marked you for death, and the Legion obeys. ready yourself for battle'

[@ianyoder2537]

As a DM the first question I ask my players is "what kinda game do you want to play? Drama, mystery, action, adventure, comedy? Do you wanna fight dinosaurs, have a high sees adventure, lead a revolution _crush_ the revolution? If you want to be a justified murder hobo we can go full vermintide doom guy." Yes, as a DM I have my own world with my own story. But I don't want to change my world to fit the players on the fly, nor do I want to force the players to fit the world if they're set on a specific experience.

[@kylegovender6211]

I have a funnyish one Be me Chaotic evil murderhobo edgelord at the time I was about 14 I was being edgy for the sake of out edging everybody Easy task since nobody else was edgy DM throws innocent cutsy child at me as bait She inherited a magic valuable necklace from her aunty I kill her for it She sort of possesses me after that and we fight for control over my characters body My character's goal changed from kill BBEG and take his place to Convince the girl that we need to burn puppies I accomplished neither But it was fun trying

[@Cretaal]

In my campaigns, players have been supported by the BBEG who slipped them a map to a hideaway in a stone valley tomb. He'd interact via avatar and send troops and equipment in varying stages of decay. Turned into them defending their stronghold against heroes who were flocking to the challenge, which brought in some high level hijynx. Basically put, if they want war, let's make war. If they want bodies to stack, who am I to stand in their way? They get 2 attacks on the city before a hero finds their hideout. Or just 1 if they absolutely seige it. They actually loved it so much I just made a campaign starting them as low level villains waging war against a city that exiled them, like Morgana trying to take Camelot. Ran it 3 times and they finally marched an eyewatering army to the gates and just... well... murderhoboed the whole city. Only thing that slowed it down was a wizards tower absolutely dumping magic missiles on the army. Got hit by the trebuchet.

[@brainfat1]

"Oh, you guys think you are the biggest, baddest fish in the lake? Well, a wise man said, there is always a bigger fish."

[@themadone3282]

One of my players is the murder hobo, and I give consequences, and then suddenly, one of my other players killed the murder hobo

[@LeonardAndHisBiscuit]

There's one great way to deal with murderhobos destroying your world and story: Give them a different game that caters to that kind of playstyle. Save that game for players who are more willing to be the audience and protagonists for it. Players and GMs should know what they're getting into before the game even begins. Is this a serious game? A sandbox game? Epic scale? Down to earth? Players who don't know and are just out for having fun will be caught off guard by a furious GM. A GM who isn't paying attention to what the players want will be caught off guard by the players' in-game actions. It's important to have that communication. I've got two teenage brothers in one of my live games who go *nuts* with weird things and make spontaneous, extreme decisions that sound funny to start with, and end up being disastrously hilarious. They don't bring it out when I let them know that things are serious in the big game, but when I'm running a one-shot? I've never laughed as hard as I do during one-shots with those guys. I know what kinds of games they can get into, and every once in a while I'll capitalize on it and let them go wild. They're great players, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[@MannonMartin]

I think one of the best things you can do is have a session zero where the DM and all the players plainly state what type of game they want to play and everyone comes to some sort of consensus. If your players all just want to kill stuff instead of roleplaying you can just run a dungeon crawl. And you can make sure your players are building characters that will want to cooperate with the party and not individually tank an entire game. This is also where you can let them know unambiguously that should they start murdering NPC's just because they get bored there will be consequences and get them to actually agree to that in advance. If they still do it later on you can remind them of it if they complain. The main idea is just to get everyone on the same page. Having said that, you might also want to talk to the murderhobo players and ask them why they are doing it. They might just be getting bored. Maybe they don't like all the RP heavy stuff and want some action. Or maybe they imagined their character as some sort of assassin, and they're just trying to fulfil that, but haven't had any decent targets to murder so they're just sort of looking for an excuse. They might also be trying to play some sort of barbarian that jumps into fights without thinking. In many cases you can help them find ways to play their character true to character without derailing the entire game. Maybe the barbarian could learn to threaten first or to just use his fists in nonlethal combat unless his opponent draws weapons too. Maybe you can seed your town with some nefarious NPCs the assassin can follow down dark alleys and dispose of without having it blow up the game. This all links back to session zero. Find out what your players want, and find ways to give it to them. If you have no idea what they really want and just build your world, your way, and expect them to interact with it in only the ways you intended... well... you're asking for disappointment.

[@theuncalledfor]

If you're a DM and your party are murderhobos, you don't have to keep running the game for them. You can kick the entire party from the game and look for a new one. EDIT: Of course, as one of the people quoted in the video said, it's good to try talking first. Maybe the players aren't jerks and will comply with your wishes - give them the benefit of the doubt until they dispel it.

[@theuncalledfor]

That being said, killing unicorns and other such fey or celestial creatures (I forget which one, but I'm like 90% sure a unicorn is one of those two) isn't "being a murderhobo". It's common sense. Cannot trust those smug abominations. Remember, kids: If it's not from the material plane, it probably shouldn't exist. Rare exceptions may apply.

[@BlackRainRising]

Honestly, a murderhobo will fight anything and everything you throw out, good guy npc's, bad guy npc's, children offering candy they don't care!! So... you let them murderhobo... throw waves and waves of bad guys at them. Wave 1... 5-6 things that could get knocked down in 2-3 rounds. Before that last round is up, 5-6 or six more rush in to reinforce, then a few more on the very next round. Give them a round or two to assess the situation before sending in 8 more stronger ones. By the time they realize they are balls deep in bullshit you're force feeding them the very thing thing want, zerg rush them until there is nothing left of that character then inexplicably give the rest of the party some hand-of-god way out of the situation, retreat while the murderhobo is themselves getting murdered... I keep telling my players - "if the PCs can do it, the NPCs can too" I think this should hold the same for being a murderhobo... the BBEG has had enough of their shit and just send everything at them. If not the zerg rush approach then take note of every murderhobo thing they do and have it catch up them in the nastiest of ways that they can't fight their way out of, either way... punish them severely in game for what they are doing and make them see it won't always be the answer.

[@scorpioperk1137]

My DMs world is entirely sand-box and yes he is pulling it off really well. No BBEG, or at least, none that we've found. We have a goal, but how to get there is up to us and we can always just... turn around. Oh, and he was very upfront about having chase scene encounters. As in, this is a monster that WILL TPK and our only option is run like the nine hells. Point of fact a few sessions prior, we were doing a favor for a hunter who needed live bait for his daughters first hunt we were the bait. The pray? A Yuan-Ti Abomination. We were level 2. Never in my dnd career did I have a fellow player thank me as much as our cleric (main chase target, because they have a mouth) for taking the eldritch invocation Lance of Lethargy (reduce movement by 10 ft) and for giving 3 points of healing. (celestial warlocks key feature, a d6 of healing by sight alone) Those 3 points were all he had left, after he stopped dashing once to cast guiding bolt.

[@doctorcorvus1319]

Here’s a fun bit of advice: don't play in a party of thirteen, because if there is the happenstance that some members act do go full murderhobo, that half of the danm party will turn on you. Which happened for me, you know your doing bad if you make not one, not two, not even three, but *FOUR* players who are playing borderline lawful evil character (we actually use extended alignment charts), it gotten so bad that we (the evil yet still somewhat morally good characters) had managed to convince the big bad to join us to just take out the more messed up players… It was weird year

[@joepinder7130]

I remember on of the DMs of our old gaming group started gettin frustrated and calling our group all murder hobos. Trying to explain to him that we aren't being the murder hobos, but rather reacting to the encounter. He would continuously have the group ambushed, and get upset when we killed all the attackers. Telling him if he thinks about every fight we been in, we were always attacked first, not once did we begin combat unless it was to fight undead

[@loreseer9553]

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has a sort of a sanity system - the more depraved you are, the more it blights your soul, rendering you liable to physical and mental mutation by Chaos. You'll end up being either hunted down by factions that oppose Chaos (almost everyone hates them), or destroying your character with unlucky mutations.

[@josephtownsend2103]

I sick John Wick on them. They keep killing everything? Well eventually their going to kill the wrong person or pet and end up with a level 20 character fully max-mined for combat on their tail and out for their blood. If they live? Awesome! But I've never seen it happen. Especially since most murderhobo groups start pulling this before reaching even level 10 and either learn or rage quite after the party wipe. Either way is a win for me.

[@SuperZerodragon]

my approch to the one and only murder hobo, who didnt try and talk to any speaking creature, was to finally have him arrested and tried for murder, his own god spoke against him in the trial, he was a paladin, his zombie came back later in the game to haunt the players

[@Aeis_Kalt]

I specifically put in an innocuous looking Npc that I KNOW they will go after, that is so far over thier level, they die, then I make them re-roll. If they persist in that behavior, I keep doing it until they either stop, or leave the group in frustration.

[@luthenwilliams5338]

Bag of holding full of 9th level fireballs, dropped by a druid wildshaped as a bird. Medieval drone strike

[@AeonStar1]

If you have an out-of-game problem with the players murderhoboing, don't try to solve it with in-game consequences - deal with it out-of-game. If you aren't having fun, tell them that, and if they won't change, kick them out or leave. Employ in-game consequences if you would have fun exploring them, not to punish the players. Make those consequences "legit," though, and proportional to the kind of trouble you've foreshadowed. Only employ adversaries that they can't possibly beat if you've made it clear that they're messing with something too powerful for them. Punish paladins and clerics with their deity's disfavor, because they signed up to play those classes and to gain power from that deity. Otherwise, employ the power of the local law - however strong it should be. If they're good enough to win...well, congratulations, they're a band of raiders and warlords. Encourage them to bite off more than they can chew next time! Also, of course, make it clear that indiscriminate murder often closes off quest lines that might earn bigger XP and loot. What you should *never* do outside of a Paranoia campaign is apply GM Fiat as a game mechanic to "win" against the players. No suddenly dropping unforeshadowed divine wrath or a randomly-appearing Tarrasque on them and calling it "consequences." That's not the consequences of their in-game actions, it's the consequences of pissing off a poor GM.

[@GreedyDrunk92]

If it's a small campaign, i would just give them the bad ending. Just that while they were murder hoboing, their enemies were actually working towards their goals And, inevitably, fulfilled it. I hope you're ready to fight the dark god himself guys, because you really have no other options

[@None38389]

Would be more fun if there was an option to side with the dark god. Wanna be murdering-assholes? I have an evil route prepared just for you.

[@guts60]

I played the murderhobo once. Kinda. I basically did a “two-face” where I flipped a coin to determine if every person I meet lives or dies. Just once. If I meet the same person again, they don’t need another coin flip. For story purposes, party members and important characters got to live. Also, in cases where I wanted a person to live, I could use an extra stat only my character got: luck. Luck only affected my coin flips, and I only used it when I actually wanted someone to live. If I were neutral or negative towards someone, the flips remained 50/50. Luck could be affected and altered through various means, like finding a four-leafed clover, breaking a mirror, picking up a singular dhupil (aluminum coin, the world’s version of the penny), coming across a black cat, walking under a ladder, etc. This leads to many funny instances of my murderhobo coming across a character that they actually want to let live, but they can’t use luck to win the coin flip because they fought a black _werecat_ and actually had negative/bad luck.

[@hugofontes5708]

That sounds sooo coooool

[@Fayanora]

Here's an idea: every character they kill has the potential to spawn their own version of Inigo Montoya, IE someone who will stop at nothing to avenge their dead loved one. The more people they kill, the more Inigo Montoyas they spawn, thus the more people they have on the hunt for their blood. If they kill enough people, eventually they have entire armies of high-level, extremely motivated people working together to take them down and parade their severed head around in celebration.

[@SomeRandomKydd]

A pair of skeletal figures appear at some point that are suspiciously similar to Sans Undertale and Johnny Blaze. The PCs take as much Paychic/Fire damage as the unnecessary murders.

[@destituodaemonis]

Generally, a murder hobo comes from how the game is run, or from players that don't understand or have an idea of the things they can actually do in the game, thus they do the main thing that's actually explained to them well... that being combat. First talk to your players and establish that killing everything may not be the best idea. if they ask who could possibly know it was them, remind them that divination magic exists. Often after this I'll find an in game way to gently bonk them on the head, to also point out that they don't actually know what they're dealing with all the time, and that combat is not the only solution to a problem. An old favorite of mine is "the old barbarian", based off of Cohen the Barbarian from disc world. If they fight him, he absolutely will trounce almost anyone, but since you're so insignificant, he won't actually kill you. However it's clear that if he wanted to he could have. Mostly it's making sure that players stop using hammers in search of a nail.

[@PaperScarecrow]

I've dealt with this a number of ways, but the most consistently successful was to establish interesting characters and a strong hook to make them interested in the story. Make it clear that there's a "tick/tock" game cycle, with one session being predominantly combat, and the other being mostly story. During the combat sessions they get their fix, and during story beats engineer it in a way that they can't get what they want by killing randos (ie. lock the rewards behind a death-switch, promise rewards that only function if the giver/receivers are alive, etc.). I've found that if you end a story session by teasing a spicy fight, they'll be likely to prepare for that rather than kill shopkeeper A for his potatoes. You can also punish it by doing the classic "lean into it" tactic, like if they kill a magic item vendor to steal his stuff, reveal that the items are all forgeries and the town guard rewards/honors them for eliminating the; it tends to kill the "evil edgelord" vibe a lot of players lean into and they shut down. For hardcore murder hobos, toss them an encounter or two with an unkillable god of slaughter who takes favor on them, and offers rewards for certain NPCs deaths, but doesn't like "boring" kills, and so punishes random NPC deaths. Let the party split and let them go investigate their target, it lets the rest of them progress with the story. In most of my groups the murderhobo eventually falls in with the rest once they get rewards from progressing and they don't, you do have to "feed the monster" every now and then with a target or kill. Another option is to just literally outsmart the party, all the time, every time. I've had a number of players say "I would try this, but I'm certain you planned for it" or who just know that I'm creative enough to tangent and off-script my own campaign for long enough to reel them back in, usually with consequences. If the players think and truly believe you're batman who's playing 4d chess, they won't try stupid stuff out of suspicion.

[@TheJimyjr]

Ah, the mention of the mistborn game made my heart all warm and fuzzy. Inquisitors were *terrifying* in the books, and there's no way even a hoard of mistings could make it. Maybe a couple of really strong mistborn, but even then, they would barely survive. That would be great to see. 😂

[@VoxAstra-qk4jz]

Yeah, let's just turn the problem players into an unrecognizable red mass.

[@LocalMaple]

Write down a tally mark against their name and method of death. Introduce a Vengeance Ghost. It has low AC, but very high HP depending on how many Murderhobos are done. If a weapon/spell/etc was used by that same character more than 10 times, VG has resistance to that attack; then on a legendary action can make the player relive the NPC’s day before their death by that blow, taking the other half and Wis saving against that much Psychic damage. If the players apologize, VG will brand them and leave them off with a warning. The brand will summon him when an innocent life is lost. If any players fight to the death, VG will revive and mark them anyways, claiming their sins won’t be that easily purged. The brands will only be removed if they save as many lives as they have taken. Technically, you can beat it, and have a month of freedom. It doesn’t resist damage from non-typical attacks, such as the fighter handing his Greatsword to the Wizard.

[@delguin5447]

If a murder hobo starts to commit mass murder, well the law of the world or people in general WILL go after them with just about everything they have. One of the main rule of my worlds is there is ALWAYS a bigger fish.

[@delguin5447]

That or a creature i call a "Pursuing Silhouette" starts hunting them ( Which IS killable, but is not something to mess around with )

[@Llortnerof]

@@delguin5447 I think i'd just have them find an image of shy, lanky guy trying to cover his face...

[@delguin5447]

@@Llortnerof You magnificent bastard, what a wonderful idea.

[@DamnDaimen]

I played a serial killer once. A necromancer trying to understand the mechanics of death by close observation of someone slowly dying. Used a lot of CC, and got permission to make magic missile non lethal so he could. Ahem. Experiment. He adventured because he liked the steady supply of subjects and income. Being a man of science doesnt pay. And no, he wasn't allowed anywhere unsupervised.

[@orangeoliver]

I have a Hamsterling Barbarian (Halfling stats without lucky and instead “Furball” attack) and he is a teeny furry ball of rage. He can be a murder hobo, but I don’t overdo it. I don’t wanna piss of my friends but I do it enough that it can be funny how this 2’ 5” can be psychotic.

[@yeetmanthe2nd529]

0:55 The Life is Strange butterfly effect

[@T4N7]

The chaotic evil god of my main 9 gods is basically a murderhobo barbarianesque savage rage monster who wanders the underdark making zombies of everything he kills. Haven’t started the campaign yet but if the party ends up becoming murderhobos ima just have people start associating them with the god until he takes notice of these imposters n comes hunting them. He’s the tankiest president enemy in the whole game n hits like a truck so if they try to fight him before they r high level than some of them probably wont live long enough to regret it

[@demonphyre6186]

My greatest trick, the forgotten secret on how to deal with a murderhobo: Find a new system. Level based systems that rely on XP, as well as systems with relatively mellow combat where the players are almost always guaranteed to win if they're fighting in their weight class, generally encourage being a murder hobo within the system itself. The only things stopping people from doing it are out of game, or roleplay reasons. Sometimes that's not enough. Some systems, such as Cyberpunk 2020, encourage trying your best to avoid combat in the smartest ways possible, using skills, talking your way out of situations, sneaking around a fight, all that, cause if you get shot, you very well could die, and pretty quickly. Systems like that ensure that even players who want to be a murder hobo are swiftly shot down, quite literally, by the people they are trying to kill, and it's not even the GM bringing out an absurdly high level NPC to kick their ass, or anything else that feels overtly like you are telling them to stop out of character and doing it through in character means. Combat is just dangerous, and if you engage in it regularly, and don't take proper precautions before doing so, your character will die, and quickly. That's the ultimate solution to a murder hobo. Play a system that makes sure they cannot kill everyone without consequence in the first place

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

Once I admittedly stepped into murderhobo mode. I punched a (random soldier) in the face, hoping to kill him. I was an oath of conquest Paladin faithful to Ares. Turns out this (random soldier) was Ares. I just committed sacrilege, safe to say I lost my powers. Not even an oath breaker, I’m just not even a Paladin anymore.

[@GeneralTheGuy]

I establish at the start of my campaign that I am an avid supporter of The Rule of Cool. Even if as written the rules don't support an action if it's explained away with a little bit of twisting sure we can roll with it especially if it's fun. However I will ask, "Are you sure about that". I'll lean forward, dead eye contact ask if they're sure about an action. That is their indicator that they may have consequences for whats about to come. Usually respected, because of the handful of times it wasn't.

[@hiroshock]

I would talk to them outside of the game to stop or leave my game. If they continued I would have lvl 20 characters pop up to take that person character away and I kick that person out.

[@ariokalami6550]

I dm’ed a cyberpunk Dungeons and dragons campaign once and for the first 5 sessions ish they were murder hoboing so I called adam smasher on their asses, fun stuff

[@christopherhartford5066]

"Stop right there, criminal scum!"

[@BrianVaughnVA]

"You violated my mother!"

[@JadenYoshinaru]

My players are always welcome to play their characters however they like so long as they can live with the consequences. That being said, I do not punish my players if they play smart. If they don't have a trail to track, then they don't get tracked. They fuck up a bit, people start putting the dots together. Some baddies reach out, law starts to track them etc. Their allies forsake them if it goes against their morals etc. I'd rather lean into it, but with consequences.

[@FlamesAndShadows]

I like that idea, but what about those who prey on their party also or test the limits of alightment?

[@MitchellTF]

Talk to them OOC, tell them this isn't that kind of game, and if they have issues with playing differently, they PROBABLY won't have fun playing my game. It's surprisingly effective. Two sessions ago, in fact.

[@MitchellTF]

Part of the problem, is that a lot of these solutions, past a certain part, are "Playing the murderhobo's game". Them against the world. Though, of course, the DM can always 'cheat better'.

[@MitchellTF]

...One option to the 'townsfolk hate them' thing? Go the opposite way. Townsfolk are SO TERRIFIED OF THEM, that bullying them isn't fun. They want to rob the merchant? Sure! Go ahead. He doesn't have anyhting good, but he's cowering in the corner begging for his life, unable to fight back. They're not getting quest hooks, because nobody wants to offer them things. But it's pure terror, not stuff. They can try to STEAL things, but most of the townsfolk are already bled dry by whatever. The bandits they want to go after? Treat them all friendly like. Because they're FELLOW BANDITS.

[@knutandersson4606]

@@MitchellTF Bandits treat them like peers. I have been fortunate enough to not have a murderhobo at the table, but I'll remember this if need be.

[@hyperjuliaaa]

I didn’t DM DnD or traditional ttrpgs, but I would dm a lot of casual RPs with my friends and acquaintances. Looking back on it, while I didn’t deal with murder hobos I dealt with some “problematic” players (who compared to the stories here, were breezes) and I made a lot of mistakes in handling them and ended up hurting feelings and stuff. I’m directing a casual rp again and so I’ve been thinking a lot about how to go about stuff again, and this video helped me figure some stuff up. Personally, I think making sure everyone is having a good time and having a mature, private discussion with the problematic player is the right way to go. And, I think the formula changes depending on what people you have. I think the most important thing to remember is everyone is there to have a good time, to be kind, patient, and it’s your responsibility as the DM to make sure everyone is having fun.

[@redacted606]

One thing if there is a space campaign. Give them quests that revolve around killing only the children of other races, as well as Culling endangered animal species. Give them big exp payouts. Then discribe the loot they get from the missions. "You pick up the baby humanoid and rip it's head off, then you skin it, leaving only the valuable crystal skull intact" once they realize that they sank THAT low for exp; Double down and make the very gods of greed, death, and what ever other evil god interested in their services. Turn them into the monsters you know they can be. Accommodate their blood lust. It's dark as fuck and any sane person will simply stop doing it or ask questions. This is when you explain what they did and hopefully restart the campaign with knowledge that they actively played like hooligans.

[@jackirish9022]

Ask someone that. Dm The harder you push against them. The harder they will fight back. From my experience. What I would do is lean into it. If the whole party wants to do it. Make it a evil campaign. It's meant to be funny. And if the airplayers don't want to do that. Make a system like dark souls. Where everyone comes back to life. So everyone's happy.

[@FlamesAndShadows]

Not if they also torment other players with that. Then making the asshole basically immortal on top of consequence free is not the way. Immortality should either be inbuilt or come with a loss of some kind and cranked up difficulty, if used to integrate murderhobo of course

[@None38389]

@@FlamesAndShadows Then that becomes a toxic player problem which should be dealt with outside of the game. Nothing wrong with murderhobos if everyone at the table is okay with it.

[@FlamesAndShadows]

@@None38389 Oh, if everyone are okay with it thats fine, wasn't even touching that one. Evil campaigns exist for a reason

[@CI369]

He kinda dealt with himself. I ran an open-to-public run of Candlekeep Mysteries at one of our local hobby stores, and one of my players was this tiny 12 yr old who was our resident "kill first, ask questions never" guy. He rarely paid attention to what was going on, and when i tried to get him more involved, he was only interested in chopping off the heads of NPC's, which i didn't let him get away with. I decided to introduce the Deck of Many Things after the party hit level 11, and he pulled the card that changed your alignment. He was a Reborn Chaotic Evil Oathbreaker Paladin, and I described it as him realizing the error of his ways and going forth to atone his actions and deeds, becoming Lawful Good and letting him pick a new subclass. He never showed up again.

[@victorvaldez8869]

It depends on the setting, but one consequence if you're playing a World Of Darkness chronicle is have them the chance to pick "surprising new powers" & then introduce the downsides later. Congratulations, you've been possessed by a Bane & the party are now all Formori. Pentex will be arriving shortly with your applications for joining a First Team.

[@Bertranddeghaul]

Regarding the part you called "my rules" rule 1.. I totally agree "the GM has absolute authority" I used the Term Game Operations Director instead of GM due to that rule although I didn't mind if people abbreviated it to G.O.D.

[@axelwulf6220]

That's what I would do, in-game consequences -Bounties -Rate Hike/Refusal of Services -Character Penalties such as change in appearance and denial of spells -Tarnished Reputation -"Wait, I know you..." I have a particularly good one: A Party that is a number opposite in terms of intent, and are 5 levels bigger than the Players' Party, and get bigger with every successful encounter by an additional 5 levels until they either die, surrender or turn themselves in, or stop being Murderhobos

[@petersmythe6462]

Level 1 party: exists GM: "you see a gigantic elder wyvern gliding overhead, its armored scales weathered and pitted from centuries of unimaginably violent conflict with its prey and with conspecifics, it seems uninterested in your party and-" Level 1 party member: "I shoot it with an arrow" GM: "... the arrow shatters on impact barely making a mark on its scales, you-" Level 1 party member: "I shoot it with another arrow." GM: "you realize it can easily one shot you right?"

[@robertbridges2378]

" murderhobo" " edge lord" Prevevtion 101: Everybody talks to everbody = don't allow this garbabe to ever get started.

[@Ike_of_pyke]

5:19 this is also how Rache Bartmoss dies canonically in the Cyberpunk ttrpg and video game , they destoryed his house then kept his net running fridge in cold story for a few decades JUST INCASE

[@aaronlefebre5060]

My way of dealing with this as a DM is to occasionally run a murderhobo campaign intentionally to let them work it out of their system. Then once everyone's happy with all the wanton death and destruction, I turn to a more serious campaign with new characters for everyone. The story of this new campaign? "In the name of the King and Country, you are tasked to find a way to stop the rampage of a war band that's cutting a bloody swath across the land!" And the descriptions of this chaotic troupe? They're all oddly familiar to the players...

[@JBRocky007]

I had a PC in a Shadowrun game do stupid things so there was a reward put out for him. The rest of the PC's decided to cash in on it.

[@MagicalMaster]

I'm big into consequences, so much so that enemies will learn from the party. Basically if they open up Pandora's Box, then not only do the Players get to have that kind of 'Fun' then so do the monsters and NPC's. This tones it down to more crazy rather than damaging. I got a small group with two goblins who's idea of an Exorcism is to set up a cage match and sell tickets. The spirit gets released, the locals get entertainment and the Goblins get money.

[@mawhit1176]

I let them encounter a one eyed lone traveller of some advanced years, the traveller is either odin raidin(i dont think i spelled that right) or some other being with enough power to deal with murder hobos easily, if the murder hobos change thier ways they may be gifted something or blessed permanently by the encounter.

[@GummiArms]

If it's just one player, then the advice to enforce consequences can apply, it depends on the group and if the player is a regular or not. But if you have more than one murderhobo, or the party all go murderhobo, then the game is over. Best to just end it and start a new one or find a new group. If you're not getting buy-in for the game you are running, the players aren't having fun, that's when you get a party that just doesn't care. It's a good idea to reflect on where you went wrong, why they weren't buying in.

[@Shiirow]

I blame certain video games for this, theyve conditioned people to see RPG as a murder hobo simulator, so it spreads into other games.

[@Zoie3x8]

As a DM, my players characters are generally part of some sort of guild or another, who provides various sorts of things like training, monetary reimbursement on certain goods (like mana and healing potions, minor to moderate common-ish magic items, quest-specific artifacts *[which are very much expected to be returned to the guilds vaults]* and other such perks and benefits to doing that sort of job.), and a degree of legal protection, should things have to go alittle sideways to get the mission done. The Flip-Side of this guild membership, is that there is also a bounty hunters guild, and that if they go rampant (ie, MURDERHOBO) they are also likewise very answerable to their own guild, and possibly also a number of other guilds, including and perhaps especially the bounty hunter's guild, and a murderhobo may find themselves quite swiftly facing Literal Legions of level-20 (or higher) adventurer battalions, and ALLL that they accrued in terms of items and experience / combat prowess. (ie, kind of like dynasty warriors, except that the strength-power ratio is inverted ?)

[@LEWS316]

I think i shared this on a that guy vid, not sure. Ours was a good bloke outof game but had a power fetish and would start fights (playing Dark Conspiracy, DnD in the real world for all intensts but with aliens and demons). one mission we were trying to kill a darkling agent on an island, in order to so so we ended up joining a resistance movement fighting agsint th islands human dictator (who was working for the darkling). when something went wrong we ended up on the roof of a hotel awaiting extraction - target was dead but we got made cos the That Guy decided to bazooka a guard hut we could drive around easily. As the chopper came in he said "I'm low on ammo can I borrow a mag from your bergen?" "Sure" He stole the 5 grenades I had taken from the lab of the Darkling, to have analysed as we knew they were some kind of bioweapon/neuro toxin charge. he threw all 5 off the roof and the resulting mess....he faced an Office of Proffesional Responsiblity review for that but rolled a nat 20 on his char to bribe the offical. Next missiion, we were told we cannot take firearms, we are going to a state with a strict, Local security forces only guns law. SO he smuggled a revolver in and fired it in the first fight, a police sniper in one ofthe hovering choppers watching over the city blew his head off. "What do i do now?" "Take your copy of the rulebook and start generating a new character " Our Dm was mean maybe but he had had enough of the murder hobo and that guy actions and i think this mission was purely a trap to get him. (as for his new character, Darkcon, uses a 4 years per term of generation and you start at age 13, once you rolled your stats with a d20) working out your career before becoming a secret darkling hunter for the govt or as a merc takes about 5 to 8 hours to do it all set your skills up generate your starting money which THEN you have to buy your starting gear. he was upset cos his murder hobo guy had over $1million from selling alien and darkling tech to the agency we worked for, where as my character who was half vampire, meaning he was half darkling USED what he found despite the risks (you stand out psychic wise and are easy to find). His new guy - started out with all of $35k to buy a car (an old beater) a pistol, shotgun and assualt rifle and some armour and ofc pay his first 6 months rent on an apartment

[@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606]

0:01 Ropers. Lots and lots and lota of Ropers. Maybe even buff their HP pools or AC a bit.

[@7thsealord888]

Consequences should always be there. Having a serious talk is also something a good DM should try. Straight-out booting any especially objectionable players is always an option. So is refusing to DM until they clean up their act. For fast dramatic ingame results ...... Not a path I like to take, but habitual murder-hoboing is far worse, imo. Just have the party pi$$ off a disguised god. You're the DM, whatever you say goes. No saving checks, no tap backs, no countermeasures of any kind, that god just brings the hammer down. WHAM! The MHs are horribly cursed, level-drained, take hits to stats, class privileges withdrawn, publicly humiliated and/or whatever other nasties you feel like doing to them. Don't hold back, don't feel guilty or sorry. Then tell the players that their characters will EVENTUALLY be restored IF they behave properly. Emphasize the "eventually". Set strict conditions and stick to them. If any players threaten to walk, tell them that they will not come back ever - you're better off without them. Harsh, but effective.