EPISODE 27 - The End of The End of The Rainbow

[@soulflower8687]

Gives you the ability to tell people: "I run a tube-based recording studio"

[@Janne19691]

You know Eric, your stuff is very valuable info for somebody like me with no option to try out things. Much much much appreciated you have the time to explain these in front of camera. Not to mention the stuff you put out when recording. Love it all.

[@RipperFromYT]

If you ever need an idea for content in the future since you're wiring the whole studio for cameras it would be off the charts fantastic to watch a live session sometime to see how you work with and how you "produce" musicians. I think a ton of people would love to be a "fly on the wall" for that and learn a crazy amount while doing it. Show us how you "Make records" Eric!! Thanks as always!

[@tortugulaproductions]

👍

[@HubLocationSound]

Some Kind of Monster II

[@studiodude1]

Amen brotha! I want to see this room in use in an actual session!

[@VyzCreates]

We are loving the videos. Would love to see a walk through of the whole studio! It’s been so long since we have seen the whole place!

[@mrwev]

I'll try to do that again soon!

[@ferdinandobarisciano6934]

Even the difference between your voice in the mixing room and the hallway is IMPRESSIVE! Good job!!!

[@billyhughes9776]

My god -- the studio is going to be amazing. A rare time the word "epic" truly applies.

[@Stormsurf001]

Major Congratulations Eric! What a long torturous road you've been on, but it's been fun to watch and clearly the result is astounding. Celebrate - you've earned it. And all of us got the pleasure of learning from your experience. Thanks!

[@Studio22mix]

Man, you are such an inspirational positive guy, I really enjoy watching your videos and have a lot of respect for your deep digging and hard style diving to the bottom of stuff. You have my respect sir 🫡

[@samuelosborn2645]

"a weird, giant tootsie roll nightmare" is a hilarious way to describe the room at the moment

[@johndraws6470]

Amazing , that's all what should be told ................... Thank you for this gold value content !!!!! Respect and all the best!

[@S.K.166]

Gonna miss these episodes once it's a all done.. was so looking forward to them while you guys were moving in and away from posting videos but they have been more detailed than could have hoped for and so interesting and fun to watch!! Thanks Eric!! Watching you make music and mix in the space will be just as awesome though too🎉

[@oldguitars]

Can't wait to see how you dress all the tubes and treatments!

[@mrwev]

Me too. haha!

[@snapascrew]

Honestly should just put a false wall of fabric in front and call it a day lmaooo

[@mikewolfe9458]

This is so awesome. Thanks so much for bringing us along for this journey. I can’t wait to see what you create in this space!

[@willudallmusic]

the pursuit of excellence! great stuff Eric!

[@antoniorobbins6768]

Really an unbelievable journey, AND so true. I’ve built three studios with varying results. The last one just using glass wool pink fluffy stuff. It appears that just porous absorption is the answer to all room problems. The thicker the better. The more the merrier. Just remember to add back m, or keep some of the reflections so that it sounds natural. Awesome ERIC!

[@Martinknn]

I really love these so much

[@33rdststudio]

Hey Eric, just commenting to say I was excited to hear “Good Time” on the way home tonight playing on our local radio station. It have to say it’s been one of the best sounding productions I’ve heard on that station.

[@bg9419]

I appreciate and understand the obsession. Thanks for sharing the struggles and success.

[@caleykelly]

Legend. Seeing all the graph variations really puts it in perspective. Cheers.

[@RonnieLeBlancMusic]

thank you and congrats man. Been a great journey with ya

[@PiercombProductions]

This is some next level mad-man shit. I love it!

[@pesam64]

Eric, it has been a pleasure to follow you in the process and I hope you will be happy considering all the money and hard work going into this. One thing I reflect on is that when you measured the room to see what the VPR panels did you always seems to look at the frequency response. I would think that the VPR panels would make a difference in the time domain that can be monitored in a waterfall graph. Obviously the frequency and time domain will be interfere, but regarding the room modes that you have from the physical dimensions of the room will have a big influence on the reverb time.

[@mrwev]

Yeah sorry I didnt include any time domain stuff. As you would expect, in general, the RT of the reverb shortens as you add more and more tunes. Same with the VPRs. The time domain stuff in Fuzz Measure was a bit erratic. I don't know if it was actually being erratic in the room or if the software was just being inconsistent. There were times when I would add a tube and all of a sudden the RT at 63hz would get really long. It didn't seem to correspond to the changes being made in the room a times and so I stopped paying attention to it.

[@pesam64]

@@mrwev Okay, then I understand. It would have been interesting to see the waterfall plots. Perhaps you could use REW to capture the end result to see if it corresponds to the Fuzz Measure waterfall plots.

[@johnvcougar]

It's always a good morning when I don't have to watch EV re-runs! 😂

[@coondog209]

Thanks Eric!Super cool! 👍

[@flat3studio]

Thank you, Eric! Very helpful! What do you think about trying same tubes but with a metal foil instead of paper? Do you think its gonna work as well? And what about those ASC sophisticated tube traps with a complicated technology? Do they work much better than these pipe insulation tubes?

[@CarstenGoeke]

Hey Eric. I love this channel. Would love to see a deep dive episode about recording electric guitars. I know these 3 parts from s.o.s. which are really great. I am curious about your take on the importance of micpreamps and outboard compressors. Greetz from Germany. Carsten ✌🏼

[@lmstudio5338]

i love that Tube sound! ;)

[@likenokevin]

Eric Valentine, the surveyor! Nice drill bit plumb bob!

[@thomasrockwell1166]

Rad, thanks for sharing!

[@Candyman_Young]

You're insane! But that's why you're the best in the game! Love it! Haha

[@MoreSpaceEcho]

Great stuff. After treating and testing my room I swore I never wanted to hear that damn sine sweep ever again. Soooooo many tests. So worth it though. Anyway, I noticed a couple amusing things when you flipped the camera around and I have two very important questions: 1. How many pairs of glasses do you have? 2. Do you go barefoot in the Vermont winter?

[@6WireBender]

Congrats to finding the end of the rainbow and thanks so much for taking us along for the ride, Eric! Meanwhile a certain pro audio manufacturer: "Well yeah UTA, but what if they stop making them tubes, huh? You're screwed." (sorry, I had to LOL)

[@mrwev]

Haha!!

[@johngiuca9933]

At 25:50 you can see the right monitor come is dented. How and does it affect anything?

[@acklin83]

Just noticed the same thing

[@benjaminabercrombie6807]

This is what interventions were made for.

[@avibortnick]

Thanks so much Eric for sharing the process and results. Curious if the LF evenness is across the room, like in the rear "producer" position, or its really just in the mix position.

[@onemic-theminimalist]

Mandatory watching for all the so-called "audiophiles" that wax poetically over their $20,000 speaker cables in virtually untreated rooms.

[@frequincyrecording4286]

How will the tube traps be hung parallel to the ceiling? I am assuming they are currently up there with tape? I have a few ideas how to hang them when they are wrapped in fabric, but I’m curious…

[@VijverEendje]

Sweet update! I love watching your studio evolve. Really love the desk with that SPL controller! Could you share the dimensions of the desk?

[@viralempire1986]

So are the vacuum and bin in the background to make it look like your cleaning up?

[@geoffschuller4875]

Fascinating. And I'm sure I missed a few episodes. What are these tubes and where can you get them?

[@bloozerd]

Thanks for sharing Eric...!...Can you elaborate on the various uses of the tubes...?...How some are covered and with what...?...How to make a helmholtz resonator using tubes...?...Are the tubes filled with rockwool or empty...?...etc

[@TehSyneS]

Thanks Eric

[@aasmundr]

Love your videos, you are a great resource! What is the exact spesifications of the tubes you are using?

[@isaacyom5552]

congratulations on finally dialing it in to where you're happy with. it's amazing to see how those tube traps are effective on the low end. definitely will do that on my next future studio. just to be sure, are those just simply fiberglass shaped into the form of tube with no other material apart from the paper or adhesive? if it is so, my guess is it would have to be above certain density in order to be effective? couldn't find the value for that from their data sheet.

[@jonathanbobo722]

What is the material of the tubes called?

[@markusgraf4782]

Does someone know how thoses tubes are called in german or where one would get those in Germany?

[@gorshenbag]

Where are you ordering the tubes from? Also, would love to know why you didn't go with a soffit mounted speaker setup.

[@nateyoung]

He answers that in another acoustics video. Might be the first end of the rainbow episode? Quick summary is he wants to be able to use all the space around the freestanding speakers to acoustically treat the front end of the room.

[@mrwev]

I ordered the tubes from this place: www.homans.com/ The product is pipe insulation and is made by a company called Johns Manville

[@TheBeatFarmStudio]

Hi Eric, many thanks for sharing all of your knowledge and expertise. Question regarding the MPDI-4… I usually have it on kick and snare. Do you recommend engaging the -20dB pad and running the gain hotter on the preamp, ie. -50 on the gain knob with the -20 pad engaged vs -30 on the gain knob without the pad engaged? Would this actually drive the preamp harder, or is it 6 of one vs 1/2 dozen… I’m already recording with the -10dB output pad and load switches engaged for maximum harmonic colouration. Thanks again!

[@tootory9506]

Instead of wrapping the tubes, can you just hang a curtain in front of them so you don't have to do all that extra work .. Also, do the tubes need to be filled with anything? Would that help like foam or a pole down the center with foam?

[@mrwev]

We think alike! that was my plan for the back of the room. I'm gonna make panels with acoustic fabric that will sit in front of the tubes. I think it will be WAY easier than trying to cover all the individual tubes. I experiamented with stuffing some of the larger tubes. I had read that some people were doing that. I stuffed 3 of the large tubes in the back of the room with mineral wool and it made no measurable difference, so I moved on without it :)

[@tootory9506]

@@mrwev that's a great idea. Can't wait to see the panels. Wow, I'm so surprised that filling the tube did not make a measurable difference .. this whole sound Absorption /Balancing thing, is so strange, but I've learned so much from your channel. As always , Thanks for sharing all your hard work!

[@nikht0]

Crazy. Congratulations for getting to the end zone. It got me thinking: if you could build a control room and there was no limit to size, shape or materials (within reason), what would that ideal control room look like?

[@raggedrec]

such a deep dive for acoustic 'perfection' for your own sake. my main question now its done is what is the final aesthetic look, will the tubes stay white and the plywood walls visible ?

[@jacksbyrne]

But what about the eggs? Did they ever get refrigerated?

[@akkr1234567890]

hi eric! could you give a demonstration some time on how you are EQing the monitors? is it an outboard eq in the monitor path or some sort of plugin in the signal path? thanks!

[@cprang]

Eric, do you have a recommended way to obtain these tubes? I’m having a tough time finding a distributor but maybe I’m missing an important part of it.

[@mrwev]

Here is the lin kto the Johns Manville store locator www.jm.com/en/insulation-locator/

[@cprang]

Thank you! @@mrwev

[@sundogaudio851]

had you done a deep dive on how to do the tubes? or its just literally use the tube like right from the store? i have to imagine them being filed with something? thanks for all you do!

[@Dani_Vallés]

They are meant to isolate pipes. So you can buy and install them without further tweaks.

[@henrikb9700]

Hi Eric, super interesting results! Can you repeat the spec on the tubes? I.e. the material and thickness of the walls etc. I am sure you have mentioned it, but the specific ones you use are not available in my country afaik. Here we just use thin (1/6") paper tubes... thanks

[@domgirard4095]

it's near the end of the other End of the rainbow video

[@MrJasonsanderson]

Really great job Eric. It will be interesting to see how you approach the asthetics moving forward. Are you thinking a light weight framed structure with some fabric or drapes to cover the tubes?

[@jqpublique]

Awesome video. Just wondering. In Topanga you used a lot of pink fiberglass in deep traps and soffits. Did you abandon that approach for a reason?

[@rockerbottlevideo]

I'm curious. Do you ever check your room with an omni mic using music?? I always look at a good reference mix using a mic in omni and also looking at the spectrum analyzer on the actual recording as well. I found using real music with an omni mic instead just sweeps with a mic pointed forward was super helpful.

[@ovonisamja8024]

Eric is savage! Doesn't care that the dust cap on the gazzilion money right bass speaker is dented.

[@timlovegrove1097]

Really stupid question - could some of the tube mayhem have been avoided with a different room size/layout/dimensions etc? IE would a slightly higher ceiling, a larger or differently proportioned room have negated a lot of those challenges?

[@fourbittaco4816]

Hi Eric. Do you have any recommendations for pop filters? Do you have different favorites for singers and instruments that are producing large blasts of air or do you simply move the microphone further back and focus on positioning? Or is it combination of both depending on various factors?

[@ten4450]

Hey Eric!! How is the vintage M160 after Grace dropped it on the floor on the Kelly Clarkson Show? No Damage?

[@mrwev]

It survived :)

[@mrpres17]

Do you get fiberglass in your feet since you're walking around barefoot?

[@mrwev]

Huh. I haven't experienced that but the bottoms of my feet are pretty tough at this point. i rarely wear shoes :)

[@Dani_Vallés]

Eric, you got outstanding results, congrats and thank you for sharing your experience. I have 2 questions if you don't mind. It seems to me that the tubes do work just because they are porous. In that sense, did you try to experiment at some point with porous walls? It should work similar but being, maybe, be a bit more friendly to install, put fabric over and so. Another question, The frequency response is tilted instead of flat. It's that because the graph settings or is that your target curve?

[@mrwev]

My understanding is that there is something uniquely effective about the cylinder shape. I talked to one of the engineers at ASC and he shared as much as he could without giving trade secrets and he talked about the tubes creating some sort of pressure gradient that enhances the low frequency absorption. The frequency response is the target. It is not weighted in any way. If the sinewave sweep is patched directly to the input of the anylizer it is a perfectly flat horizontal line. I definitely prefer more low end in the room. It is more satisfying for me to listen to. Perfectly flat has always felt unsupported and shrill in the room. Good questions!

[@Dani_Vallés]

@@mrwevThank you! Very interesting responses. It seems something is going on with the tubes because you are absorbing down to 50Hz and that's very low for only porous, will need to investigate this effect. I just setup my room with flat frequency response and some subtle 'natural' bump on the low end by having the speakers as close as possible to the front wall. I will try tilting it a bit and see how it goes. Thank you again Eric :-)

[@castawaymusic144]

You're going to have to put "The Tubes" debut album cover somewhere in the room.

[@mytt88]

Fuck it I'm buying headphones

[@HubLocationSound]

😂

[@ReubenGingrich]

LOL

[@jacknifeskiggs2081]

Lolll

[@bloozerd]

What Speakers are those...?

[@TomCatSound]

Hey I am in the middle of this process in our small studio and I was wondering if you think forming normal fiberglass insulation into tubes would have the same affect??

[@mrwev]

I have never tried it so I don't know for sure but my guess is that regular bat insulation would not be dense or thick enough. The walls of the pipe insulation cylinders are pretty dense. Definitely different than regular bat insulation you would put in the wall.

[@TomCatSound]

@@mrwev Thats good to know. Thank you for this video series. It has been immensely helpful in getting our own studio in line.

[@ub2562]

Dear Eric, Thank you very much for these super exciting episodes - I watched them all!!! Question: Have you measured the effect of the metal plates in the VPRs. So did you measure the complete room with and without the metal plates installed? I would be very interested in THAT. Funnily enough, I always doubt that they're doing anything USEFUL with the acoustics (haha!).

[@GaroNargizTV]

Did you fill the different tubes with any material or are they literally just the way the come from the store?

[@mrwev]

Good question! I experiamented with stuffing some of the larger tubes. I had read that some people were doing that. I stuffed 3 of the large tubes in the back of the room with mineral wool and it made no measurable difference, so I moved on without it.

[@jonaslondonguitar]

Tube traps being dummy proof is exactly what I experienced. Did you fill yours to the specified density like ASC does? Highly recommend covering it with a polyester wrap before wrapping with fabric so you don't get all those fiberglass fibers in the air.

[@DRUMAWAYEMAN]

this is unbelievably rad. captivated by the process. will you every give a gear run down? specifically how youre navigating IO (avid and antelope)

[@mrwev]

Definitely! Once I get into some mixing stuff in the room I'll be able to show the whole setup.

[@DRUMAWAYEMAN]

@@mrwev awesome can’t wait.

[@Studio8Recording]

Of all the craziness of these tubes, the dented dust cap on the right monitor is the thing I'm most irked by. :) Some masking tape rolled into a loop works great for pulling those dents out.

[@mrwev]

I've tried a bunch of stuff to try and undo that. No success yet. On the next WTF episode I'll explain how it happened :(

[@domgirard4095]

Beside the tape thing, a repair man told me that he uses (on cheaper speakers...) a small bent guitar string after poking a tiny hole in the dustcap with the string, maybe you can try on a dead speaker first if everything fails.

[@TerpyMcTerpMan]

Why aren't you showing us the time domain waterfall graphs ?

[@mrwev]

Yeah sorry I didnt include any time domain stuff. The time domain stuff in Fuzz Measure was a bit erratic. I don't know if it was actually being erratic in the room or if the software was just being inconsistent. There were times when I would add a tube and all of a sudden the RT at 63hz would get really long. It didn't seem to correspond to the changes being made in the room a times and so I stopped paying attention to it.

[@TerpyMcTerpMan]

Why not use REW ?@@mrwev

[@darkironman07]

Try checking the windowing on the measurments. The auto window function in FM4 can sometimes be quite short. If you set the window times to be the same across all the measurments they should be easier to compare.

[@richeymcc]

I’ve so enjoyed this series - amazing! Are you planning to use anything like the Trinnov on top of all the room tuning you’ve done?

[@pupkid8613]

I wanted to ask this question too! Mine has been invaluable in making my loft studio work for consistent mix results.

[@mrwev]

I have a Trinnov unit and used it in my Topanga setup. What it does is really amazing. It is not feeling like I need it in this setup. Things feel very accurate in there and the stereo image is like nothing I have ever heard before. The match between the L/R Strauss monitors is stunningly accurate. The speakers are so good that I struggle with the idea of putting the signal through that heavy handed digital processing on the way there. I need to setup an editing room and I may use the Trinnov in there because it is not big enough to allow me to put a bunch of tubes in it :)

[@gregedenfield1080]

TUBE-A-RAMA!!! LMAO 🤣😂😅🤣😂

[@half-tonstudios6961]

Has anyone UK based found a suitable product for the tubes? They're piping insulation right?

[@mrwev]

i dont know about the UK but here is link to the dealer that I bought it from. You can see the manufacturer as well. It might help chase down something similar in Europe. www.homans.com/search?f=%7B%22attributes.wall_thickness%22%3A%222%5C%22%22%7D&query=johns+manville

[@half-tonstudios6961]

@@mrwevthat's brilliant thank you!

[@korestudios]

Yes!!!!

[@cornerliston]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a real time calibration? First pass = sine sweep to see the room response. Result is used to addressing specific frequencies, e.g. 50hz cancelation with real time sine wave in the room, then the 100hz and the 200hz. I'm pretty sure most rooms have severe issues in the low frequencies, and at the long wave length wouldn't it be possible to manage this in a real time? That way you can watch the calibration tool reacting to every single movement you do with the material (tubes or what might be used). Also, about directivity-what about a Neumann KU100 style of mic (at calibration standard), would that do anything good to the measuring or just mess things up completely? Maybe it's just that we should try thinking in a different way than and try a technical iteration of our tools.

[@mrwev]

Yeah the REW real time analyzer is the best I've seen. There is something about the Fuzz measure process that feels comfortable for me. I like being able to refer back to previous versions as I make changes. With KU100 it might be possible to capture both at the same time and then average the two captures. That probably would be closer to what our ears experience. That's a cool idea!

[@cornerliston]

@@mrwev I didn't realise REW had real time. Must take a look. Thanks for the reply.

[@yungspoiler]

I wanted to ask whats your thoughts on the fiber glass discourse, i.e. is it harmful to health or totally fine. obviously your using alot of it so you are comfortable with the stuff, but i just want have a definitive answer on this because i feel like theres only the extremes ends out there where its either extremely cancerous and ruins your entire house if you get it all over the place, or completely fine and you can basically eat the stuff (lol). Any thoughts? Any one else have some insight on this?

[@RedSpark_]

Most of the time when I hear people talking about the dangers of rockwool etc, they use the word 'potentially' to pre-fix it. i.e They haven't actually tested it yet and don't have strong evidence. If you look at things like EU standards etc, they all say it's safe. I can't find the source for it but there was a paper on mineral wool safety that said man-made fibres disolve in your lungs fairly quickly, where as organic material fibres like cotton etc stayed there for years. There was some good sources about it on gearspace if you want to do a deep dive.

[@EDEN-LIMINAL]

You surely have gone to the very end of the rabbit hole ;)

[@snapascrew]

Dang I guess I’m buying tubes for my new room.

[@HubLocationSound]

Hi Eric, congrats on your flat-ass curve 🏆 It’s hard to know when to stop/give up, right! 2 nerd questions: 1) where in the chain are you eq-ing those last few nulls and are you using hardware or software? 2) just curious… how does your room’s response hold up when you increase/decrease playback volume? Ie. Does more energy/amplitude accentuate the natural peaks/nulls?

[@mrwev]

i put EQs between the output of the monitor controller and the power amp for the Strauss monitors. Not surprisingly, the EQs are UTA MPEQ-1s.

[@RUGBYmusic]

Thank you for saving me thousands of dollars haha.

[@fxcn414]

Hi Eric!

[@mimidhof2179]

M.Valentine. Great video. I'm really glad to see the result after all those month of progress. But please when you take the camera on your hand don't make those weird fast camera move as around 24:45 or so. it is really a bad moment for the viewers. You could make same but slower move. Thank you.

[@gavmurray7398]

just started watching i am hoping this episode ends with a rainbow curtain coverering your tubes. i wish this to happen for your marriage!

[@arnesl929]

Tubes all the way down.

[@ivywilson6515]

Next is to install a Wacky Waving Arm Inflatable Tube Man out front.

[@MartinMartin-yi9to]

How about the next video : EV cleans the mess A-Ha! Cheers

[@mrwev]

Haha!

[@henningbortne8650]

It's so nice to see someone who is a nerd like me. I also went through all this myself and my studio are amazing good. @oslomastering

[@deadrituals]

Hey Eric!