MSFS: Full flight using VOR navigation - KFXY to Y51 (USA) - Cessna Skyhawk 172

[@JohnVanderbeck]

"Minus two plus two trick" I had never heard this before and I think you just changed my life

[@KipOnTheGround]

There are some caveats so I made a short about it a while back if this is helpful: kzbin.infoOtLLdJMySHY

[@DrinktheVenom]

🤯 this is my new go to! Thanks

[@MojaveHigh]

This is awesome! I hope you can do a lot more flights/navigation like this in various planes/avionics.

[@Poundy]

I just went and watched this one and then planned and flew my first VOR only flight (in the 414). Good to see you here too !

[@BertPoole]

Yours is one of the few channels I have on notify. Thanks for the clear and clean presentations. Thats a lot of work, but its very much appreciated. Everyone says it but in this case its true: you deserve more subs. Thanks for the content.

[@KipOnTheGround]

Thanks Bert, I appreciate the kind words! Happy flying :-)

[@roblisbell]

As an older ex private pilot I really think your videos and instruction are excellent. They take be back. I obtained my PPL by flying a C172 out of Sky Harbor in Phoenix

[@mikevadnais7722]

Kip, another great teaching tutorial. I have used many of your back to basic sessions to learn the fundamentals of flying. Thank you so much for giving us all your time. After just purchasing the NVIDIA RTX 3080 TI 4 days ago, I have once again really started to appreciate this sim. What a difference when everything is turned on.

[@KipOnTheGround]

Thanks, and congrats on getting a 3080! I have the non-Ti version and it's a beast. Enjoy the improved quality and performance. MSFS is stunning and only getting better :-)

[@keimahane]

This was a very clear and enjoyable VOR how-to. You have taken most of the mystery out of the process. I am going to try this tonight. Thank you.

[@ahetzel9054]

Dude, the -2/+2, didnt know about this but holy shit thank you!!! Thats a great trick! Just sat here and played with it, absolutely fool proof!

[@brettmcallister6635]

Wow! Love these tutorials. I just flew along with you and learnt so much, once again! It’s the way you explain and then do, so I can follow along. All the little things that I often miss (eg where the button is for outside air temp for pitot heat or Top of Descent calculations) make my enjoyment of the sim so much better. Thank you from all your Australian subscribers.

[@ifirekirby7498]

This is a really awesome video, really explains VOR tracking well. This goes a lot more in-depth than most videos do. Just a couple things, I'm sure you know this but maybe to the people watching, the fixes/waypoints can also be pretty critical not only for lateral changes, but also for vertical ones. MEAs and MOCAs often change at these points and often you'll see the interrupted/barred lines surrounding the waypoint due to that, meaning you may have to climb after reaching a specific one in order to guarantee continued reception or obstacle clearance.

[@barneyrubble9811]

Excellent! Going to have a cup of tea and then try to replicate your flight. Thank you.

[@exquirentibusveritatem9793]

This is how I like to think of VOR: The CDI (Course Deviation Indicator) instrument senses the emitted radial from the VOR station and determines which radial the plane is on. It then sets the TO/FROM flag depending upon the compass direction currently at the TOP of the CDI. FROM flag indicates the TOP direction is mostly pointing away from the VOR while the TO flag indicates the TOP direction is mostly pointing to the VOR. When the pilot centers the CDI needle by twisting the OBS knob the two directions will be exactly the directions to/from the VOR station as indicated above. i.e. if flag is FROM then TOP direction is exactly pointing away from the VOR, and if flag TO then TOP direction is exactly pointing to the VOR. So if pilot wants to fly to the VOR he merely twists the OBS knob until the CDI line is centered with TO flag, and if the pilot wants to fly from the VOR he twists the OBS knob until the CDI line is centered with FROM flag.

[@dav3nator]

Great video. I have zero flying knowledge, so I will be watching your videos a lot.

[@wdavis6814]

VOR navigation has always been a mystery to me. But thanks to this vid, I flew a 2 hour flight and got my way around using the CDI. There were a few points where I wasn't sure, so I threw open the NavMap only to find myself on course. Thanks!

[@musicmystro]

I was actually looking for a VOR tutorial on FSX but came across this and decided to give it a go. I Learnt a heck of a lot that also applies in fsx. Thankyou!

[@Agent-OO]

love love love these videos! And they are created based on the United States! Thank you and looming forward to seeing you on Vatsim!

[@RVP23]

Reciprocal +2 -2 rule was maybe the best learning of to day LOL...thanks

[@RVP23]

Oh and the caveats....thanks for heads up

[@RVP23]

so minus 2/plus 2...or plus 2/minus 2. And then the 19 instances where it get over 360 decres. Think i got it right now LOL

[@bcsimpilot3497]

This is great cuz I am intimidated by all the radio buttons etc and really want to learn navigation and IFR, RNAV, ILS etc. Thanks Kip. Kip, even sounds like an airforce nick name lol

[@Dave_TheFBO]

Great video! I learned so much from this!!! Much appreciated the effort put into making this!

[@adampowell2792]

Great video, been trying to learn VOR flying for a while and yours is the best I’ve seen.

[@RiccBallard]

Thank you for a very good tutorial, I really appreciate leaving in the mistakes, and how to correct them. Which I think most of us do and see how to recover from them. Sub-ed

[@KipOnTheGround]

Thanks Ricc, glad you enjoyed it!

[@Sebastopolmark]

GREAT video Kip. It is just packed with all the information we need to begin to learn VOR navigation. This is a reference video! !! !!!

[@REDMAN-ROTERMANN]

This is exactly what I was looking for. Nice work keep them coming.

[@Youngsirsquatch]

I saw the mistake at Nodine but I knew you would correct it. Obviously I’m an expert at reciprocal headings pshhh. Great video and very very informational on flight navigations. I sure this will help lots of folks and maybe myself when I get into flight sim.

[@gabsmoscow]

What a great tutorial; well done!!

[@cyberrider1765]

Good stuff Kip! Really enjoyed this one!

[@jamesjobe4307]

That was great! Thank you!

[@handoromper7987]

You really are brilliant thank you.

[@skyginer7370]

Hi Very instructive video. Your channel is a really good discovery. Thanks a lot.

[@manngeetforever]

great video! very helpful thank you!!!

[@Patrick_AV]

As always, great tutorial! Fun to watch. Thnx.

[@amol1608]

one thing I noticed is that you did not write down the CRS for when you switch to LSE. You did do that for the RST switch.Thanks for these videos, I learned A LOT from them EDIT: ok you corrected it when it came to that :D

[@KipOnTheGround]

I didn’t end up using LSE actually, just stuck with ODI for the last leg that led to our destination. LSE is a terminal VOR, so it has a pretty short range and may not have been able to get me all the way to the airport. I mainly decided to stick with ODI just to not have to switch to yet another VOR. I’m not sure if LSE would have worked out - maybe!

[@amol1608]

@@KipOnTheGround thanks for the explanation!

[@JasonFarrell]

Thanks for this! Today I completed a 330 mile trip from Catalina island up the California coast to San Francisco (KSFO), using nothing but old school manual VOR navigation in an old steam gauge Cessna 152. Using an actual SkyVector nav map to create the flight plan added extra realism. I found alternating between Nav1 and Nav2 for upcoming active VORs helpful since the morse code starting to beep was an easy audio cue to let you when the next VOR was in range. Unfortunately VOR is fast becoming obsolete and I understand it will be mostly phased out by the FAA in 2025, so there's not much use in relying on it anymore. It is still taught in flight school? GPS wins.

[@KipOnTheGround]

Yes, that's a great use of the second NAV radio and I do the same thing myself! Some other uses for your second NAV radio are to tune it into the same frequency as the first for redundancy, or using it to do cross-radial navigation, which I haven't covered in a video. AFAIK, at least in the US, using VORs is still part of the training to get your private pilot certificate.

[@jeffchapman8992]

Perfect. Thank you.

[@MichaelPeronTofolooo]

Excellent.Thanks Sir

[@TBizzleII]

Great tutorial and easy to understand. Thank you!

[@DaveVT5]

Thanks!

[@KipOnTheGround]

Thanks, Dave!

[@TheMekein]

You are on a roll! Keep it up! Hope to see you in VATSIM soon, no pressure tho :P

[@fergatROn]

VATSIM, VATSIM, VATSIM! [chanting]

[@TheMekein]

@@fergatROn hahahahahahha lol

[@KipOnTheGround]

🤣

[@billadams8795]

Really great video. Nicely done.

[@SuburbanDon]

Nice job with this. I may have to.get back into FS

[@jakew9887]

Excellent presentation. Thanks

[@MrYeshwanthln]

Awesome bro !

[@JohnVanderbeck]

So your route was basically all along the airways which makes this process easier, but many routes I get don't actually follow the airways. Would love to see an example of how to get all the chart data needed when in this case. EDIT: In hindsight I realize this is a somewhat stupid question because the obvious answer is "Well that's what GPS is for". However the reason this question popped out of my sleep deprived brain was that I had been doing a lot of reading on old school RNAV, not GPS but the older implementation that was essentially a radio system that let you offset VORs to plot routes outside of station to station. In MSFS the Black Square Analog Cessna 208 Grand Caravan has one of these and it is fascinating. The KNS-80.

[@atcmiker]

Thanks Kip great tutorial.

[@KipOnTheGround]

Glad you enjoyed it Mike! Cheers!

[@atcmiker]

@@KipOnTheGround After nearly 40 years in the military as an Air Traffic Controller, your tutorials have shown me how little I know about navigation. Every day's a school day eh

[@exquirentibusveritatem9793]

CONTINUING FROM PREVIOUS: Planes using VORs often set up flight plans involving VOR to VOR legs. Note that when flying from one VOR to the next VOR with the needle centered with FROM flag and X degrees at the TOP of the CDI (meaning X degrees is both the radial and the direction the plane should fly away from the VOR), then, at the half way point when the pilot switches to the next VOR frequency the CDI will switch to the TO flag with same X degrees at the TOP (meaning X degrees is the direction the plane should continue to fly towards the next VOR). The degrees at the BOTTOM of the CDI will then be the radial of the next VOR the plane is flying on.

[@tco2023]

Notice the little math trick you did to get the reciprocal. Do you have a more indepth video on some cool aviation math tricks? Thank you for this video. Learned a lot!

[@nfapeng187]

Been watching all these videos since last night, i still dont understand the getting 126 or the numbers on the gauge itself. But im gonna watch it again to see if I can finally get it.

[@twistedyogert]

Could you please do a video about fuel planning? I've always wondered how pilots calculate how much fuel is needed for a flight. I do know that flying isn't like driving a car. At least with my family, we've always filled up the car completely until fairly recently (gasoline is more expensive these days). However, cars normally don't fly so weight isn't an issue. With planes, more fuel would obviously make the aircraft heavier which would reduce the maximum payload that you could carry safely.

[@GumperVanLier]

Great video, Kip. You really do explain things well. I've done a few VOR flights but I now know I really didn't do it correctly. This video is worth a second view. Kip, are you interested in the Just Flight's 172 Classic Enhancement? It's similar to steam gauge Caravan but it's not done by Black Square. I'm holding out for the steam gauge King Air.

[@KipOnTheGround]

Thanks! I actually just got the 172 Classic Enhancement today! Flew it around a little bit. I noticed that it doesn't play well with my ALT knob on my Honeycomb Bravo, but besides that it seems pretty awesome so far. I need to dig into the manual and learn all the proper procedures since it's more realistic :-)

[@GumperVanLier]

@@KipOnTheGround Looking forward to your video on it.

[@meligunicoliparoto1988]

video grandioso!

[@AplusMUTE]

Great videos, love your channel, keep it up. However, you lost me @30:01 when you were over the VOR, why didn't you change the standby VLOC frequency to the next point in your route? you kept heading "FROM" the same radial you were at... It confused me, shouldn't you change directly the VLOC frequency and then set OBS 1 to the next heading angle towards the next point in your route?

[@KipOnTheGround]

Since VORs have limited range and require line-of-sight, you generally should use the closest VOR. You can think of it like a lighthouse, where the farther we get from it, the more difficult it is to see. We continue to navigate using the close, bright lighthouse that we just passed over instead of trying to see the next one that’s really far ahead and isn’t visible yet. Unless a specific “changeover point” is in the charts on our airway, we switch over to the next VOR when we’re halfway between the two.

[@ellonysman]

😮My head hurts😮😅

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

@5:54 in the video you go from RST 076 to Nodine and you say the halfway point is 25nm. Why don’t you set a TO Nodine of 256 ? Is it because you know that RST has the range and there’s no need ? You know the radial intersects with Nodine exactly ? Just trying to get my head around this. Very educational. Thx.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

You answered my qn @35:42.

[@NOTNICE24]

Please make more

[@hiortintexasracing]

What a great video! I’ve started to use VOR navigation. I learned a lot. I actually did not know the AP would track to the VOR! I’m not completely clear why you simply don’t track TO the VOR from the start instead of going FROM and then halfway switching to TO. This is provided you have contact with the next VOR, right ? If it’s a long distance I understand why you track FROM and then switch to TO.

[@KipOnTheGround]

Glad it helped! Yes, the idea is to tune into the VOR closest to you. This makes it less likely that you'll lose its signal. Also, since VORs share a limited set of frequencies, you could be closer to a different VOR that has the same frequency as the one you intended to use. I think the most important reason is simply the accuracy of your course. The farther you are away from a VOR (whether you are flying from one or towards another), the less precise your course will be, since, the radials become spaced farther and farther apart from each other. If you tuned into the more distant VOR at the start of your course, you'd be farther off the intended course/airway than if you used the closer VOR.

[@bertfitness5747]

Thanks for all your great videos, do you have any VOR on G1000 NXI?

[@universeunknown1880]

Are you at least a PPL holder? Great stuff !

[@KipOnTheGround]

Nope, just love the sim 😆 thanks!

[@wunnenstein]

Hey thanks for this awesome video. which bind do you have on your trimming wheel so it clicks? Cheers

[@universeunknown1880]

You have white arc for the flaps. In 172 its around 85

[@KipOnTheGround]

10 degrees of flaps can actually be used at or below 110 KIAS in the 172. The white arc represents full flap operating range (40-85). It looks like I said it was 120 in the video, so that’s my mistake, but it’s 110 according to the POH.

[@universeunknown1880]

@@KipOnTheGround I’m currently reading POH for 1964 C172 Goes as follows: Red line: Maximum speed Yellow arc: Caution range ( Level flight or climb ) Green arc: Normal range (Level flight or climb ) White arc: Flap operation range Nowhere did I find about 10 degrees of flaps can be used over white arc speed. I would like you to prove me wrong. P.S. Your videos are immaculate !!! PP.S Just to double check my self I i grabbed POH from 172S (mine is 172E) and you’re actually right, 10 degrees of flaps can be used @ 110 IAS!

[@republiccommando1234]

Great video, thank you. What is the instrument to the right of the tachometer? Was flying the Beaver today and noticed it.

[@KipOnTheGround]

That's an ADF -- Automatic Direction Finder. It's how you navigate using NDBs, which are Non-Directional Beacons. The NDB frequency is entered into the ADF receiver, which is above the right-seat yoke in the C172 in this video. If the NDB is in range, the ADF indicator will simply display the bearing to the beacon. Hope that helps!

[@republiccommando1234]

@@KipOnTheGround that helps very much! Thanks

[@scolariIRE]

what would cause my Garmin to differ by about 5 degrees. When my CDI is lined up on 032 degrees with the needle centred my Garmin RAD=037

[@rogerwatts5566]

Hi Kip Thanks for your great tutorials they’re very helpful. I’ve been practising the KFXY/Y51 VOR flight. Ok in the Cessna. But I’ve switched to a TBM 930, as the G3000 layout suits my elderly eyes better. I’ve tried the same route but I’ve had real problems getting the AP to follow the VOR flight plan. It picks up the Mason City VOR and tracks up to Rochester OK but after that it’s hit or miss at the other VOR’s. The NAV setting on the AP just ignores the flight plan and my plane wanders where it wills! Any thoughts?

[@adamduncan2044]

Hi thanks for helping me get into vor navigation but I'm struggling with changing onto victor airways with no vor channel. If the don't have a vor to go to or from do I just go by miles traveled then hope I change my heading at the right time? Also there is no heading to use. Any help would be great. Thanks again

[@starroger]

8:16 Just remember NEODD & SWEVEN.

[@bertobones7182]

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@zynrob]

I followed the link provided for your mods, trying to fiind the 'tugs' you use but I see no reference to it anywhere on the page. I even searched the MSFS market place but couldnt figure it out.

[@KipOnTheGround]

I'm 99% sure it's the Airport Regional Environment X North America (AREX) mod, but I was going to wait to test it to be sure before I wrote "tugs mod" next to it on the video description. I'll check it out today to be sure. Unfortunately the website for the mod doesn't show off the hand tugs, so I couldn't verify yet!

[@zynrob]

@@KipOnTheGround Thanks for responding. I have the Global Ver. AREX and I fly general aviation only but I have never seen one of those small tugs.

[@DeadlyDragon_]

How do you switch the autopilot over to nav2

[@JerryDechant]

Hi Kip. Question off topic for this video: I've been flying the TBM 930 a lot lately. On the specifications sheet, it says the top cruise speed is 330 knots, but when I'm flying, the indicator shows about 265 where the green ends and barber poll coloring begins. Also, I've never been able to get it anywhere close to 330 knots except when I did a dive from higher altitude. So, why does it say 330 when I don't think it cruises at that speed?

[@KipOnTheGround]

Hey Jerry, I took a look at a TBM 930 POH (pilot's operating handbook), and their performance chart shows 330 KTAS as the maximum cruise. That's measured in true airspeed, which is different than KIAS (indicated airspeed) which is what your primary airspeed indicator in the plane displays. And it says it can reach 330 specifically when at 31000 FT, 6300 LBS weight (minimal fuel), and -20 degrees ISA (much colder than average temperature) at that altitude. Basically, 330 knots TAS is the maximum possible performance with minimal weight and at an ideal temperature and altitude. If you look for your TAS or GS (ground speed) at the G3000 displays, you'll see comparable speeds. IAS displays the speed of the air passing over the wings, which decreases as altitude increases due to the atmosphere being less dense.

[@JerryDechant]

@@KipOnTheGround Thanks for the explanation. I'll have to look and see where on the G3000 it shows the TAS. I guess for all practical purposes, one would seldom practically cruise at that speed. I generally fly at low altitudes because I like to see the scenery more close up, and when I do so, the indicated air speed is around 250ish. (287.6949ish mph)

[@KipOnTheGround]

Just for comparison, I'm on a flight using the CJ4 at 41,000 FT right now. My indicated airspeed is 221 KIAS, but my TAS is 435 :-) My ground speed is 431 due to a cross-wind on the current leg. Here's a summary of the differences: www.aviationfile.com/ias-cas-tas-gs-speed-definitions/

[@JerryDechant]

@@KipOnTheGround wow! That's quite a difference.

[@hiortintexasracing]

One more: you mention “pattern altitude” …. How do you determine it ?

[@KipOnTheGround]

In the US, the chart supplement for each airport is where its TPA would be published, but if it isn't mentioned, the default is 1000 AGL for a light plane like the C172. Here's the FAA page where you can look up a chart supplement by airport code: www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dafd/search/

[@markrobertsUK]

What set setup do you have. The quality is awesome?

[@KipOnTheGround]

I have all my equipment listed here: www.kipontheground.com/ I record using OBS studio at 1440p and 24000kbps before editing and exporting with Premiere.

[@WillOHaver]

Question, how’d you get the 172 without the G1000 in MFS?

[@KipOnTheGround]

It’s part of the Deluxe edition

[@hiortintexasracing]

How can I calculate how long my fuel will last ? (Time and distance)

[@KipOnTheGround]

This isn't something I can explain too easily (or maybe at all due to my limited knowledge), but a lot of factors are involved. The fuel consumption rate of the specific plane you're flying will be different during each phase of flight (taxiing, takeoff, climb, cruise, descent, approach, etc.) and involve the weather, temperatures, expected winds, cruise altitude, and the power settings you're using for the plane. Basically, the plane's fuel flow rate and resulting ground speed throughout the flight determines how long/far you can fly. Since I'm not able to calculate all this myself manually, I rely on tools like SimBrief.com to do my overall flight planning for me. After generating a flight plan there, it gives an estimate for overall fuel needed ("block fuel") that includes each phase of flight, diverting to an alternate airport, and reserve fuel. I'd recommend trying it out!

[@Mauleflyer100rv]

Why not just use GPS. So much easier and VOR’s are slowly but surely going away.