MSI Patch Strategies and LCS Roster Moves | The Dive

[@gabevilleneuve2468]

The Dive being year round is SO exciting. As someone who no longer plays but loves the game, I get legit sad during League off season with no content, so you guys will be my IV drip of League until next season starts 😂 Cheers for that! 🎉

[@tealover7058]

Same I find watching the game so much more enjoyable than actually playing

[@pretentiousfly]

All my friends just Uninstalled last week with me. We watch every league, but playing ruins your life

[@gabevilleneuve2468]

@@pretentiousfly I get such weird looks whenever I mention watching League in my friend groups. Its sad how the terrible reputation of the game can hinder a genuinely fantastic spectator eSport

[@alexhirsch5738]

The year is 2019. The most dominant team in NA is TL led by CoreJJ. The most dominant team in EU is G2 led by Caps. This is definitely the year that the west wins international tournaments.

[@VexOoo-x7y]

What a great dream that was huh? 😢

[@Jonathan-gk6se]

What an exciting time to be a league fan

[@pretentiousfly]

​@xxRockyBxx I have been watching pros since 2015 religiously. I can confidently say the west is worse now that they were since maybe 2017.

[@paradigmschism2324]

Giga-peak content would be getting Emily Rand and Meteos on the same episode during MSI to discuss the matches. Make it happen, Mark Z! I know you are reading this!

[@rynbrtn]

Emily is so ridiculously insightful. I second this motion.

[@OneWingedRose]

Jatt Emily and Raz are why I always tune into the pre-show of a stream, love those three! (Love when Kobe and Azael are there too!)

[@SpaceZeee]

Nah we need a dive with meteos and sneaky talking about buttholes

[@nightwing09x]

Emily is waifu

[@CaptainLanky26]

Holy shit dude don't get me so hyped for something that isn't real yet

[@bm8350]

How funny this came out immediately after the official Thanatos announcement.

[@dothangbui4918]

why funny?

[@bm8350]

@@dothangbui4918 because they said C9 Thanatos isn’t officially announced yet. See? Hilarious.

[@dothangbui4918]

@@bm8350 xD

[@escobarisanoctopus]

52:25 - Azael: "Leblanc got some buffs, Sylas got some buffs..." 53:58 - Azael: "I didn't say Sylas." Azael's deadpan response is killing me.

[@mattbadger811]

Bro, idk why but sometimes the shit Azael says gets to me. I'm glad you caught this too cuz I was like bro you just said sylas got buffed not 3 mins ago...

[@thindiesel11]

Also: I'm SO ridiculously hype for MSI coming up 🎉

[@paragrin8385]

I don't think fudge was the reason C9 was losing. They lost their experienced shotcaller, Zven, and had noone to replace him for that role. I am still worried they will be a ship without a rudder even if they pick thanatos up. Obviously Reapered is a great coach, but he can't make the calls in game.

[@longers1028]

True, but I could see Reapered coming in and building up someone else to be the shot caller. I would say that Blaber, Jojo, and Vulcan are some of the smartest players in the LCS. Bring in Zven as like an assistant strategic coach, and they could hopefully bring more of that magic to the roster. I think the current roster didn't seem to do anything to substitute the loss of Zven's voice, and I'd assume Reapered is smart enough to recognize that.

[@DrChristopherMueller]

Fudge never won a lane, he went even at BEST. Dog champ pool and no spark for a team. Absolutely useless human.

[@paragrin8385]

@@longers1028 I would rather see zven on an actual team. I do have high hopes for Reapered coming back. Not sure on Vulcan since he looked back last split and this one.

[@jborg0074]

Analysts and even the pro-players agree that Zven was a big loss. I remember hearing at one point on how Zven was likely the one keeping Berserker in check and that's why he was making a bunch of errors during spring split this year because no one kept him in check. C9 definitely needs a level headed shot caller because they are quite the ego-heavy team. There is also the possibility that Thanatos doesn't require the same amount of 'resources' as fudge did so maybe they can at least divert the attention elsewhere

[@narhwallord6985]

@@longers1028 Zven was staying at the Cloud9 house/facility still. So I'm sure they could have asked for insight and such. Fudge wasn't the issue, but you have to change something and Fudge is a really obvious choice compared to the rest of the roster, right?

[@InmortalidadOtaku]

With regards to NA vs EU. NA has been really fun to watch this split, while EU had some games that were truly unwatchable, I think that's where most of the negativity comes from.

[@JM-fh2em]

I feel like the bottom of NA is leagues better than the bottom of EU. Hopefully the top of NA is better than the top of EU as well.

[@arturoflash]

C9 vs SR and NRG vs 100Thieves are 2 games off the top of my head that had some really questionable gameplay. Every league has multiple games that devolve into chaos. DK vs KT in the LCK Is another example, alot of DK games actually and other teams as well. LEC has a really condensed format and that probably has an influence on the perception around it

[@Darkstormsun9865]

​@@arturoflashI mean chaos is just natural. Just because it's a Fiesta doesn't mean it's bad.

[@benheilman5770]

So...I have watched this for years and I have to say the biggest laugh I have ever had is when they ask Meteos 'will this solve Cloud9's problems'? His reaction was so genuine, with a shrug and 'Maybe?' Thank you guys for all you do, I look forward to this videos every week!!

[@connorcherry822]

This iteration of the dive is the best league content being produced at the moment

[@DMBABT]

Twist the avocado not the knife when you twist.

[@Brawph]

35:56 I know people tend to ignore the minor regions, but if you're talking about domestic titles... Yutapon has 16 titles (in a 2 split league) in the LJL with DFM, so if you're looking for someone to compare Caps to in dominance / longevity in a region, Yutapon is a really solid comparison point (even if in a less successful region).

[@Hotsauce0811]

Getting a Dive episode on my birthday>>>> You guys are awesome keep up the great work 💯

[@ProfessorBjorn]

happy birthday! 🎉

[@jrfox18]

Best podcast ever! Missed this in the absence of regular season and playoffs. Can’t wait for next week!!!!

[@woodwest11]

This is my official petition for @riotgames to bring @meteos along to china having people like him is huge for us NA fans who are gonna try and catch as much of the games/broadcast/content as we can since it’s in the middle of the night for us like if you want to sign

[@insignificantdamage3446]

It feels bad watching LEC and seeing that most casters have put all their eggs in the G2 basket. I understand rooting for the strongest team in the region, but the bias is hard to ignore as someone that is a fan of another team.

[@artemisentreri-isaacs3059]

It really is. Like it's ridiculous how slanted even the casts are when G2 is playing literally anyone. Don't get me wrong, I understand that G2 is good, but such biased casting is just obnoxious.

[@Hleler]

Absolutely agree with Meteos' point about LEC negativity even as a predominantly EU fan. EUphoria has a healthy amount of copium still at times but even the other analyst podcast The Jungle is just riddled with dunking on EU and being depressed about the prospects for EU. I don't think anyone seriously thinks TL is at the level of a T1 or GenG but the narrative that Yaptain America Yapa is gonna all chat the eastern teams into submission just makes me so much more excited to watch. You don't have to 100% believe in your teams winning to at least build a bit of hype and excitement rather than shooting it all down beforehand

[@jesseyang5771]

seriously been waiting for the dive. The Best podcast to come and watch

[@seluhir8820]

I love the LEC broadcast. Its especially nice because their broadcast focuses mostly on discussing the game and the players, not what is happening in chat. lol

[@ryanlaughman324]

I always suspected but the avocado bit confirmed it, I'd listen to the Dive crew even if they weren't covering LCS or anything League related.

[@DillyHD]

I don't see Thanatos staying in NA for long, but my god I hope he does. I'm so hyped for summer to start!

[@Kowl636]

I don’t think JoJo and Berserker work well together. Did they see the Cloud9 video?

[@manashieldmedia]

Which video?

[@JM-fh2em]

There was some behind the scenes C9 content and Berserker was getting annoyed at Jojo for running it down in scrims. Berserker was correct for being annoyed.

[@tavpros]

fr as soon as he said that, I was like "does he know?"

[@bryanpritzl5812]

I agree I can’t believe people haven’t noticed this more? Or maybe since they are both so good it keeps getting glossed over

[@dobbyjenkins3903]

Jojo plays like 3 champions with azir banned all he has is yone lol

[@sggcaboose1]

My favourite player is playing this season? excited for Meteos to be back in c9

[@bryanpritzl5812]

Ditto

[@MathieuCastro]

KZbin doesn't want me to say thanks for producing off season content.

[@Auturgist]

Did you guys watch Phreak's patch rundown? Everything he said about Draven and LeBlanc as weak, pro-gated champs seems to apply to Elise as well. I want to know what Meteos and Kobe, as junglers, think about the state of Elise and why she can't get the buffs needed to make pro appearances.

[@timchin]

@Azael, you can cut the half with the seed in half again and just peel the avocado off the seed. Hope it’s a quick recovery!

[@dutchdude1985]

Being a loyal follower of both LEC & LCS for years now i do have to say the general level of LCS teams has gone up where they are all really competitive with eachother and the games dont seem like absolute clown fiestas for the most part. This is exactly why EU fans are critical of EU too, not because its EU vs EU and hey someone is winning right but because of the way these teams grab the wins and just how damn messy some of these games are that makes us less confident in international play when even basic stuff is being messed up. As for Caps yes hes been absolutely smurfing and you could argue he has reached a new peak personal performance. That being said lets be real here the Caps we see this playoffs is not Caps as he has been for the past years. Be a fanboy all you like but you cant in good faith argue he was legit the best mid all these years as he simply was not.

[@Anikthias]

How do azael and kobe always look so fresh???

[@tray7787]

U made me look at Azael jacket and it’s fire

[@krisdeyanov8970]

Because they shower every day, try it yourself!

[@MattM284]

you probably like that veganQuest shirt on kobe XD

[@FaustTheThird]

very happy for the dive to be year round, very cool!

[@jonart8433]

Faker inting away a finals is what made that finals the best ever

[@Darkstormsun9865]

Old man didn't have the same vigor at worlds. Even with faker inting. They still made it to 5 games compared to other times lmfao. Geng didn't look better or weaker, t1 is just strong compared to those previous times.

[@yumei5058]

Kobe's haircut looking fire

[@christopherriordan2057]

Fudge got blamed for playing weak side on Berserker’s team When it was a hyper carry meta they won the split When it wasn’t a hyper carry meta anymore, weakside top made him look bad

[@462seb]

Damn a dive post split. We are spoiled!

[@Supagenki]

I just want apa to tilt caps, NA vs EU all the way!

[@WHIKKEDDDD]

i actually find it fascinating that KC is replacing BO, if you listen to the voicecoms you’ll see why he probably has back pains. excited to see the C9 changes and what happens with TL & Fly at Msi

[@tiltmasterflex7220]

They've said they benched him cause they can't afford to build the type of roster that would take advantage of him.

[@WHIKKEDDDD]

@@tiltmasterflex7220 yeah that’s a wild ass excuse to me tbh hopefully they can turn around their team next season tho

[@JM-fh2em]

They need a new support that actually talks. I'd take Bo in NA he's better than what Dig have at Jungle currently.

[@tavpros]

​@@JM-fh2emNah, let ExYu grow. I'm tired of replacing young NA talent with imports

[@spaghettivase4808]

@@JM-fh2em exyu was probably the best part of Dig’s team. He was always proactive early.

[@Roxscy]

Love you guys!!! I actually really like Meteos in interviews !

[@michal3270]

Well if drafts were player driven in C9 isnt that also reason to shit on coach? He cant just let them play anything (like he did) and expect to win lol

[@manashieldmedia]

exactly my thought

[@CxerRy96]

Apparently the khazix pick was Chovy saying it would work against the enemy draft and canyon said fuck it we ball...and I completely agree it reset his mental to have a carry game for once

[@2bumlegs]

I really hope Licorice joins Shopify Rebellion! They will make playoffs and maybe even claw out a top 4 spot! God they will be so fun to watch!!!

[@JM-fh2em]

This makes sense. Fake God has been ass.

[@verafied9225]

The avocado thing is a skill diff. What you wanna do is cut it perfectly in half and use the bottom edge of a 8-10 inch blade to pop it smack into the seed. Then you grab the outside of the avocado with your hand and pop it off. Very simple to do but it requires a big knife 🔪

[@games_with_austin]

Almost didn’t watch this episode cause Meteos wasn’t in the thumbnail 😂 glad he is still a part of it

[@CJDM310]

I love 'The Dive' theme music it's so good!

[@rotcoke652]

I don't think Fudge was C9s biggest problem, but signing Thanatos is a massive upgrade. He'll be the best top laner in NA. Vulcan and Berserker need to figure things out together for this team to live up to it's potential though.

[@F00Lsmack]

For Summer I hope the LCS go one best of one round robin followed by a best of two round robin based on seeding from the first round robin. Consistent broadcast times, more games, no ties and a little bit of adaptation. Can prep the first draft, normal experience second draft. It ends up as a modified best of 3 by the end of the season.

[@manashieldmedia]

9:55 realest shit kobe has ever spoke and kobe is a real mf

[@bobbysimon1078]

39:06 this is a weird comment. You can still comment on the quality of game if someone wins and someone loses. Like one team always wins an iron game that's how the game works. Just because a team wins doesn't mean the team is good. You can evaluate the teams based on their decisions and plays.

[@jeremyj8153]

Bruh if the seed isnt coming straight out by squeezing the avocado you gotta leave your avocados on the counter for another day or two

[@joshuaharbman147]

I'm so excited for the dive year round!! tbh i follow the LCS so i can know what these guys are talking about lol

[@orionmilbury4817]

Bring me more dive!

[@arturoflash]

Nah. G2 this split was not untouchable, not by a long shot. Caps is the only one that has consistently played really well. And in the finals they should have started 0-2. The throw FNC did was not a forced error either and FNC fumbled multiple leads, but that doesn't mean that it felt like G2 was going to always win the game

[@honzavesely2111]

But it looked like players thought, that they cant loose. Which team in their right mind will chase a fcking penta instead of ending the game, if they respect their opponents.

[@tealover7058]

@@honzavesely2111yea they can’t lose because they know even though the opponents might be up gold they will just lose their mind eventually and throw the game. They were right.

[@arturoflash]

@@honzavesely2111 Oh I agree. And that mindset the players have is going to come back to bite them so fucking hard

[@Zulverius]

You are supposed to apply pressure to the back of the Avocado to push the seed out.

[@Jonathan-gk6se]

Jensen had some good games on akali at worlds two years ago, specifically against faker too, and he's a good Leblanc player so I don't think the buffs to these champs hurt flyquest already slim chance of beating eastern teams

[@artemisentreri-isaacs3059]

People don't like to give Jensen any credit, the especially the Dive. They forget that Jensen has the record of most kills on a champion in a single game in the NA playoffs and that champion was an assassin, Leblanc. They just conveniently forget that kind of thing when talking about him.

[@S0UV3N1RS]

K6 pick benefited from ASol being picked. You dont want to group against ASol even more so when someone like Chovy is playing it

[@TheSnozzwangler]

If you're going to be mashing the avocado for guac anyway, then you can just quarter the avocado which makes the seed really easy to remove.

[@PopsicleTom]

Woo! We love the dive

[@D-Z321]

Kobe always with that bedhead 😅

[@mountainoceanproject]

Tbh why we sad Fudge is gone he legit didn’t play solo queue I hate that shit

[@MM36Productions]

K'Sante seems fine :)

[@aadityadav5526]

Bro, I just saw the draw. I am hyped for biwpo vs Zeus. Both are psycho. I think that should be best top match in the tournament.

[@argantyr5154]

We have to remember the best players is not equal to best team.

[@doloran-]

C9 Jack and winning the off-season.

[@xandmangaming2885]

Am I the only one who thinks its a little odd that meteos is saying you can’t judge game/player quality based on regional play? Like I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of player capability independent of them playing in a certain region and can tell when a player is performing better or worse than previous years in that region based on how they are playing.

[@CrazyCatMan13]

i love Azael's jacket btw

[@embr54]

Are you guys able to speak on the Esports Cup?

[@12fulworld69]

I think the EU thing is a bit cultural. We tend to both feel close to the players and not want to play ourselves up too much. It has its pros and cons, but I don't think the players feel to disrespected by it.

[@stanaklol]

People are negative about the LEC right now because the level of play is objectively the lowest since its peak. If you actually watch the LEC regular season and playoff games, you'd understand. Even the players agree that the level is low. They're not getting flamed for being bad at last year's worlds, they're getting flamed for being shit right now.

[@jordanchartier4226]

When meteos talks about coaching it now makes me related that he compares every coach to Reapered and all of them were not nearly as BA as c9 long coach Deeeeee Reapered

[@DrChristopherMueller]

Azael hasn't seen the sun in 10 years holy shi

[@rom6040]

Always excited for NA vs EU. If TL vs G2 has a chance to happen despite both being 1st seeds, the trash talk is going to be IMMACULATE

[@orikha1640]

Anyone know where Meteos' hoodie is from? Tried looking around for it with no luck.

[@robinhahn1170]

Pick up the half of the avocado with the pit with two hands, face the pit away from you and press on it from the skin side

[@hangster559]

Didn't know avocado was that deadly LOL How tf I've been doing it for years and never got myself cut.

[@Darkstormsun9865]

Just takes one moment slip up.

[@acreo7357]

Usually on Meteos’ side for his takes but the LEC broadcast calling out the teams being bad is just the truth they don’t have to sugarcoat everything, if they look at a team playing bad they can say they look bad. Also the whole you can’t compare because it’s EU vs EU makes no sense cause if they look bad in their own region they’ll get ROLLED AND SMOKED by LPL/LCK

[@keyentitycain8420]

Sneaky is on a team?

[@thindiesel11]

Episode 13 babyyyy LFGGGG

[@Morty04]

Many great players in EU are just not on LEC teams right now, thats why the negativity from the narratives in EU are somewhat justified imo. I totally get that it can get a bit much after some time, but several people here think that these teams do NOT have the best players in our region and thats why they are talking about being in trouble at MSI.

[@markstenquist2315]

I love watching Azir, personally.

[@escobarisanoctopus]

The LCK Finals were absolutely incredible. Such a great 5 game series. However, for Chovy's legacy... he needs to translate that regional success into international success. He's too good at the game to NOT be great internationally. And with the team he's on, they're definitely poised for a great year.

[@SleepyFen]

18:00 Caedrel spent a lot of time during his co-stream emphasizing that Kha'Zix is a super strong counter to Xin Zhao, so I don't think it was half as crazy and sketchy as you guys make it out to be here 😅

[@vend5032]

What’s so funny is last week I did the same thing as a azael but instead I stabbed my palm from an avocado 😂

[@107thFruit]

I'd love to see them adjust some more champions to give them flex pick (they stopped Camille support for example) I'd love to see: Camille, Sylas, Leona, Pyke, Nasus, Naafiri, Kled for example. Strictly from a lore standpoint having Camille, Naafiri, Pyke working in the shadows makes more sense, and Kled has a bear trap.... Leona is wandering the world trying to find Diana, and Nasus is a dog.

[@107thFruit]

For jungle **

[@MathieuCastro]

I don't comment on these videos ever but watch every single episode. Hearing they're going to keep producing them during the off season was the best present I didn't know I could get.

[@mrdevonscook]

I have one criticism of Meteos’s comments on the sentiment around EU this year: he is disregarding the expertise of analysts. These EU analysts (you can include Caedrel if you want) have actual knowledge about the game. They can look at the actions teams are making, macro and micro, and make judgments about the objective quality of those actions.

[@alfredosolano7955]

The avocado part was so American, they be cutting the whole seed 😂, actually crazy if what Azael said about being the reason most people get stitches while avocado being one of the easist fruits tu cut

[@trevzy91]

Yeah, the way they were talking about it was so violent. Just chill and hold onto the thing, it doesn’t take that much effort lol

[@Jbartholomew14]

You can basically guide the weight of the knife with no extra force if its sharp

[@BimBachelord]

I was saying. Glide knife around seed then wedge a half off. Why we tryna cut the seed ?

[@jaydee4177]

​@@BimBachelord they're not talking about cutting the seed in half - a lot of people cut the avocado in half, then use the knife to wrench the seed out of whichever half it's stuck in. Still not a great idea but not as bad as what you're picturing lol

[@Jbartholomew14]

@@BimBachelord Avocado can be super slippery it guide a knife around the seed, its so much easier to sink a knife into it and twist. it pops right out super easy.

[@tinecchi3648]

100thieves with zven could be interesting

[@cokecookies6935]

Very disappointed that C9 picked up Thanatos. I don't care if he is better than Licorice, I would have preferred C9 to pick up Licorice.

[@sebastianpallares5525]

So you’re saying Stixxay is going to play? 🧐🧐🤨🤨

[@Zhuny_FR]

I was wondering where the dive ep was

[@distrez]

Analysts sleeping on morde when you can play morde support and effectively trade the income of a support with a mid, ad, or top carry. morde can just go zyhonas and anathemas and prevent themselves from dying.

[@brianrich3094]

Whoever is teaching guys how to cut guacamole …. Is clearly scamming you guys… In PR, FL AZ or even Colombia we don’t have this struggle lol

[@dobbyjenkins3903]

Imo jojo needed replacing more than anyone on c9. This man plays like 3 champions. Azir got banned then suddenly he looked like ass on everything except yone. Mans champion pool is a champion puddle

[@azraiel6000]

Top lane whines when strong and gets buffs. ADC whines when weak and lethality gets buffed.

[@patricelavoie3]

if you got huni on the dive one of these msi weeks that could be really hype!

[@JM-fh2em]

I think he's in Korea doing LCK stuff full time.

[@patricelavoie3]

@@JM-fh2em i’m aware. they’ve done collabs with lec talent before (divephoria). so why not collab with lck talent like huni who has played in 3 of the 4 major regions? would be a pretty cool perspective to hear before or during msi

[@nolandelgado6313]

@thedivelol if LCS switched to Fearless Draft, which pro player currently rostered on a team do you think would be benefitted the most?

[@anthonyricher]

They'd have to play Bo2/3 first. You're probably looking at the top end of players or the older ones who've played through more metas. Having said that, the correct answer is Insanity.

[@adamhoffer3346]

A sharp knife is a safe knife, sounds like someone needs to sharpen their knives so it doesnt deflect off the seeds.

[@BelbyB]

39:00 I think the issue with LEC historically has been that they fight over nothing so much. And while China is doing it, sure, they're doing it much better than EU, so EU games can look like complete clown fiestas. (And in my mind, NAraming for prio or NA baron fights are better because at least they're fighting for a reason lmao)

[@doing63]

cool

[@beck6036]

We need a caedrel feature

[@Genevagirls-h2x]

Azir is such a cringe champ and i agree with Meteos fully. We bitched and moaned at the Azir - Corki meta and were placebo'd into complacence by just giving Corki up. The fact that Azir has 100% presence, be it pick or ban, suddenly does not matter. Very predictable drafts, boring mid lane matchups. Riot needs to shake this up, its become stale.

[@sunnylin3604]

IMO, it is insanely insincere to say that Fudge wasn't holding C9 back. I like the guy, but he would literally lose lane no matter how insane of a counterpick he got (only exception I think is against Sniper, but the guy's a rookie). I mean the guy is straight up getting out-farmed, out-laned, and out-fought even when the enemy laner is on tank duty. This always comes back to inevitably screw C9's draft because they always lose top prio, which forces their bot lane to pick kalista/lucian to prevent double losing sidelines and seeping all objectives. So every time C9 is on red side they are immediately at a disadvantage because R5 counterpick is nowhere near as strong as it should be, which means blue side gets first pick for no tradeoff. At the same time, C9 almost NEED red side to get Fudge a counterpick so he isn't completely shut out of the game. As an outside observer, Fudge's inability to win lane matchups makes it so difficult for the team to draft that I'm not surprised that every game feels like a draft gap.

[@OoogaBoogah]

This is how i felt about it I did also feel Vulcans performance was less than stellar but I think that’s in part due to how much sven held everything together

[@stonedtrooper2586]

Agreed, I feel like Fudge only did kinda good on Udyr, besides that he was getting smashed in lane

[@manashieldmedia]

Was praying for c9 impact but let's hope thanatos does well

[@anthonyricher]

I don't know that he would lose but he definitely wouldn't play to win. His whole thing was just trying to go even and scale no matter what you put him on. The most egregious thing to me is how late and badly positioned his teleports are.