MTG Players Rage Over Modern Horizons 3 + Fallout Deception

[@TheMagicHistorian]

Thanks for stopping by my friends. Todays livestream open the mtg ravnica clue box happens on my other channel - kzbin.info If you want to see any of the livestreams you missed click here to go to my livestream archive - kzbin.info/door/qBfsO3ISW41z711BIQg97w

[@jonathanadams1714]

Magic prices are universes beyond reasonable

[@markbutler8156]

I see what you did there😂

[@Xmr2024]

Nice

[@mattc9665]

Cockatrice is free mtg

[@TR-vd6lq]

Learn to code

[@kevingarlick4617]

​@@TR-vd6lqyeah look at the massive tech layoffs already this year and its only February.great advice for 2018 dummy

[@calic737]

There's no way that I could ever justify buying these new products for that much.

[@tcsmagicbox]

Wizards: Let's list a future set with a ridiculously high price, and when we lower it, they'll eat them up like hotcakes! Players: Wizards is fire selling their own product before it's even released!

[@astreagc1187]

Someone remembers when Modern Masters had a Msrp of $6.99 per pack??….How we ended here?

[@huggernaut55]

For real!

[@felipepereira214]

Nice Mike to mention about the situation of us Brazilian MTG players. I hope the day finds you well!

[@Arkzard]

What is going on?

[@felipepereira214]

@@ArkzardWotC will stop printing Mtg cards in Portuguese after the realise of Modern Horizons 3.

[@marcelfranca5304]

I came back to competitive scenario two years ago, make small champs on my city that don't has a LGS, even get a car and get people on own home to play, and now, this. I'm really pissed off.

[@NateBullock-ow6on]

​@@marcelfranca5304Hasbro is straight crooked 😮

[@marcelfranca5304]

@@NateBullock-ow6on Can't agree more.

[@idego447]

I HAVE TO KNOW if he came up with Dragon Puncher McGee and The Goat Tickler off the top of his head. it seemed so natural, and yet also so "wait, what did I just say?" *chef's kiss*

[@TheMagicHistorian]

I made both of those names up, Dragon Puncher McGee I made up on the spot recording this video today, Goat Tickler is a name I made up on the spot a while back in a previous video and goat tickling has been mentioned multiple times since then. I don't have scripts for these, just a few rough notes that make sure I don't forget to cover a subject so it's all just a regular conversational flow, and yeah I totally do get to enjoy "Wait, what did I just say moments" all the time, mostly in the livestreams.

[@PlatinumAbra]

I would buy those cards!

[@sortasurvival5482]

At the end of the day, the cost to print a normal set and a premium set is the same. It will never cease to amaze me that one piece of carsboard is $80 and another is .05, only difference- the pattern of the ink.

[@sortasurvival5482]

@@moonmanwithham2 it makes the world a little sillier.

[@maaikevreugdemaker9210]

There is no difference to the 1 dollar bill and 100 dollar bill. Value is belief in these situations and is nothing new really. Belief is just quite a bit more unstable with Wizards than the national treasury lol.

[@sagethegreat4680]

Need Rage - 1 green and 1 , enchantment. Whenever wotc makes an announcement put a counter on this card . Tap- discard this card - remove all counters and flip the Table deal 2 damage for each counter removed to all players and all cards are on the floor .

[@paul_goddard]

Congrats on 56k! Missed the stream, but dude that is great!

[@DHale-qj1nm]

Power creep is a subtle form of rotation for non rotating formats like commander.

[@BIGNEILCOUSINS]

Everything you said about Modern horizons 3 is correct. I am getting to the point where I can't justify buying cards anymore.

[@simplyyunak3189]

I cant justify it either. Thats why i dont buy sealed. I order singles. Gets me the cards inactaully need for a price less than a display

[@winnipeg316]

"ETB" was much better option than "Enters"

[@magusofthebargain]

I disagree. Enters is fine. We now say Shuffle instead of Shuffle your library.

[@solcloudchaser4988]

"Shuffle your library" was much better than 'Shuffle."

[@magusofthebargain]

@@solcloudchaser4988 True, it was better, but Shuffle and Enters is a reasonable way to shorten the amount of text on the card to save space if needed.

[@winnipeg316]

@@solcloudchaser4988 shuffle your graveyard? Shuffle your hand?

[@solcloudchaser4988]

It's not that players are to stupid to not understand what to shuffle. It's that they are so greedy and cheap that they can print cards with so many effects that no one wants to read the entire card, but they want to save fractions of a cent per hundred cards printed by not including two words that make the ability read seamlessly and be understandable to old and new players alike.

[@kuragariinuken255]

This is why I buy singles. I miss the days of $120 for a booster box.

[@noahkieffer7410]

To think I was born so late in the golden age, and still enjoyed it, but took it for granted!

[@sheldonadams2847]

Not putting reskins of Universes Beyonds in packs is a slap in the face for anyone who didn't purchase the secret lairs. The dnd cards are 30+.

[@TapTwoCounterspell]

Start using the Epson Secret Lair. Print whatever you want.

[@ThjyuGaming]

How? Proxies are the only way most people can ever play the game with the fucking insane prices wizards has for no reason.​@@moonmanwithham2

[@cdean107]

Dnd is still wotc so I consider it in universe

[@kwkarakw2750]

deception? WotC? I can't believe this

[@joeferreti9442]

Production cost of MTG cards is likely under 5 cent per card in mass production.

[@Seority]

They make the feds jealous by the amount of money they print 😆

[@Firevine]

This "Enters" change is one of the dumber, more pointless changes they've made. I thought they couldn't top changing "casting cost" to "converted mana cost" but here we are.

[@registereduser]

Isn’t it “mana value” now? Ug.

[@marceloaraujo2803]

It actually makes sense if you factor in the average amount of words on a magic card in 2024. They are running out of space already lmao

[@XarianTheElf]

I don't see what's dumb about it. It clearly reduces the amount of words and is as clear as before.

[@BlueGriffin20]

Reminds me of Yu-Gi-Oh changing graveyard to GY.

[@babylonastronaut]

"Any target" so I can bolt your land? No, any target means something completely different from "any" target.

[@sbirc254]

As Dr. Cocks and Associates said If you don’t like our product don’t buy it. I used to buy about $1,500 a year on sealed product and then project booster fun hit and I maybe have spent $450 on sealed anymore. The Willy Wonka of cracking packs and thinking you pulled something unique has been washed away by reprints after reprints and secret lairs. Love the game and won’t ever stop playing but WOTC is going crazy and for me that fun of open booster packs is gone. Hopefully they change.

[@thor82ak]

I thought the Fallout panic was from the Collector boosters, not the precons.

[@Mirthful_Midori]

It has to be the collector's box. I think, or at least hope, that everybody already learned this lesson with the Warhammer 40K decks. The decks will 100% be reprinted, since the demand at least appears to be there.

[@noobtuber10]

Its collector boxes ye

[@kanga2468]

Remember when WoTC said they don't look at the secondary market? Pepperidge Farms remembers

[@rahminh]

My target in Oklahoma is selling the clue set for 75 bucks! Yikes !

[@samwisegamegeek]

401 games in Toronto has the price at 499 for a collector box. And the play boosters are 3 something

[@NateTmi]

if the cost is too high, then don't buy it. Buy food to eat instead.

[@thenickoftime167]

You deserve it man, you are genuinely funny and entertaining. Even my 8 year old who cant stand magic loves your intro.

[@Zjivarra]

I’ve quit being a WotC customer. No dollar of mine will be spent on new magic product, when it’s like this. Prices are crazy! Just gonna cube and enjoy the collection I have. I might buy a bulk lot of the sets that come out for cheap, if I can find it. But if not, I don’t care. At this point, finding free or cheap ways to play, or forms of entertainment, and then saving up for earlier retirement just seems way better. Might be getting old. Hopefully wise.

[@MrGenyaAvacado]

3:46 Beyond Universes Presents: Dragón Puncher McGhee & THE GOAT TICKLER

[@atheistmantis1264]

The brass neck of Rosewater and WotC ...

[@ClosedOpenness]

Why not just ETB… it’s not like people don’t already use that for short hand.

[@SSolemn]

Because if you translate that, it doesn't work. At least in Spanish we don't use those types of shortened phrases, and the letter's name are way longer, so it would be a mess. Idk about other languages, but I get that "enters" its easier no matter the language

[@gnarleeinstrumentals]

Thank you for clearing up the fallout mess. I pre-ordered the Caesar Deck and I've had people online warning me that my order might get cancelled.

[@realitychecktime101]

So glad there are good quality Proxy companies out there. I will not be contributing to this absolutly absurd price gouging game. $500+ for 12 collector booster packs, $380+ for play booster box lol, get real WOTC. Modern Horizon 3 looks nice, but only if the prices are about 1/3 of current pre-release values.

[@mikes7423]

All universes beyond cards need to be considered silver-bordered for eternal formats. Way too much power creep in these side products.

[@lixocontextualista]

Shout-out for the Brazilian community of MTG players whom've finally decided they've had enough of this BS.

[@jamessnedeker4799]

I stopped buying Magic with the recent Hasbro layoff/bonus two-for- nonsense but can't give up this channel. I'm happy not just for your success but that you are absolutely loving every moment of it.

[@NightfallShadow]

Anyone here have a foil portugese Storm Crow from 7th Edition?

[@anaskaadan5845]

The answer is simple. If you don't like their business practices, simply don't buy sealed products. Vote with your wallet!

[@joeferreti9442]

I can believe that WotC denied so many years to shorten "when enters the battlefield" and now they do it. :/

[@Reluxthelegend]

need more space for more effects

[@davidmitchell621]

complexity creep along with power creep

[@skeletor957]

As a casual commander player, I have issues with the $45 pre cons as is. Especially since build quality is all over the map.

[@ReaperofKings]

wait are you saying that the EDH decks are 300usd? I live in Australia and even with out tax added on top that's nearly 500aud.. good thing I got out of the game but it's always good to see how much WoTC is fucking over their player base.

[@shorgoth]

You have Modern horizon prices versus let's say Star Wars unlimited where your box cost barely over a 100 bucks canadian... yeah, Wizard is just high on their own stocks at this point. They will kill the game with their greed, this is like eating the golden goose.

[@aaronthompson4726]

Played in a Clue event at me LGS. I got 2 Golgari packs and someone else in the event, from the same box, got another Golgari pack. If it wasn't at my new LGS, and wanted to get to know everyone, I would have passed.

[@utube3625]

We only had enough for 2 pods (2 clue boxes cracked) and totalled to 4 packs of gruul

[@michaelgleason4791]

I don't remember a time when Magic players weren't angry.

[@dudeguy7347]

I'm happy

[@mtgwanderermage279]

I miss the old days of 3 set blocks with the only option being draft boxes at AU$ 180 each.😮😢

[@glassface9953]

Play booster was supposed to be a middle ground between draft and set boxes. But somehow ended up costing more than both combined

[@AC3handle]

All this overpricing is making it easy for me to just...step back. At the least, I can wait till prices drop. I bought a Karlov collector box, and after seeing the price drop, sent it backfor nearly a full refund

[@dane_anubis6213]

How can someone buying a $600 commander deck and be "casual"? $600 isn't casual it's a serious commitment. You could print tron, merfolk, burn and some budget versions of 2 or 3 other tier modern decks and sold them at those prices.

[@grasshopper1153]

Modern Horizons 3 should have nothing to do with Commander. What a train wreck. Modern Horizons should also be about making cool, powerful cards to brew with rather than making cards for sweaty, tryhard, tournament grinders. I liked playing Modern because it did not have rotation. I never played Modern to be on the pro tour. The cool thing about Modern back in like 2018 is you found a deck you liked and bought into it and got to play your deck at LGS events without having to worry about your deck becoming obsolete.

[@patrickmcathey7081]

Yes that is the literal trait modern legacy and vintage had that wotc HATES with a passion. Pioneer should never have existed moderns job was the non rotating high power format we can print to demand. Ie no reserve list.

[@Nephalem2002]

Kind of blows my mind they chose Commander Precons over Modern Ones. What would be so bad about printing good mana bases for the Modern Format in Precons?

[@grasshopper1153]

@@Nephalem2002 I hear ya man

[@joeontherun]

i pre ordered my commander deck at game stop and they told me im the only one who pre ordered there😅

[@mikenahmias7102]

For the record, I never say it's free, but appreciate the shout-out. Congrats on 56K!

[@Adam.AI.]

The clue edition was sold out at my LGS and I went to another to pick one up. I didn't get any duplicate packs. Lucky me, I guess.

[@MTGUnpacked]

Congrats on 56K! You'd think it'd be hard to make so many Magic news videos per week, but Wizards just can't help themselves by providing so much material, mostly unintentionally😂

[@heecks9375]

I play arena everydays and I never heard about free gem day ??? not sure where you got this info.

[@thedarkritual6675]

lol Bro, I love this channel. “Your house is full of snow now.”- Most Canadian thing I’ve ever heard. That’s gotta be flavor txt on a card in the near future 😆

[@thefrizmeister3666]

I wonder when people will wake up and realize companies and especially corporations don't give a FFFFFFUUUUU about them and they will take everyone for everything they have if given the chance

[@nwttp]

That's not the issue, and honestly, why would they? The issue is that all this stuff damages the game, loses players, and will be bad for them in the future. A good corporation will think past the next earnings report. I still see a bunch of people playing, but the amount of people just proxying has become astounding. It will continue to increase, and this type of stuff will bleed players.

[@JeanWayne]

Always remember when you think about MH3 prices; Its printed paper.

[@atk9989]

Play commander and use proxies, I spend $26 on a full deck plus $14 in shipping.

[@Kagebushin01]

MH3 hasn't popped on Amazon for me yet

[@sheldonadams2847]

They could have easily just made mh3 60 card decks w new cards instead of commander decks.

[@seanc4953]

Can we get Time Stamps for topics, please?

[@patrickmcathey7081]

Let me ask when was the last mtg product that price point wasn't the problem? At some point the problem might be us

[@tcgmetaslayer4202]

I agree they ruined modern. I liked it better when they did type 2 and then extended, which is how standard and modern should be. Well, at least I can play oremodern without worrying about wizards ruining that closed format

[@registereduser]

No internet in Universes Inside? Bullshit. More like they can’t find away to squeeze enough money out of them.

[@GallantLee]

Solution to Secret lairs without universes inside will eventually push more people to be comfortable with proxies.

[@afrocious8281]

I came back two months ago and the amount of people that run proxies now is insane. I’m sorta against it since I’m sick of proxy gaias cradle. I’ve always been okay if you own a copy or if you’re producing something you plan on buying. Not proxying 15 100 dollar cards to make a good deck.

[@enricomassignani]

The amount of people with proxied Alpha Duals is honestly ridicolous. Play shocks and pay the 2 life already.

[@davidh1265]

I think "Enters" makes perfect sense. Everyone knows that EDH is the money maker. I always hear players shortening "enters the battlefield" to "enters" while explaining the card. This is just like when they decided to use mill to describe putting cards into the graveyard from the library. It's a slang term the players use. Why would we get upset over that?

[@Seority]

Was someone upset?

[@Seority]

Thank you for the "enters" clarification 😊

[@Azonavox]

I got my gems for like 1600 and change gold. But I was in the shop the second it reset, then it was gone a few minutes later.

[@Seority]

Every day I get tempted to just start playing my pokemon cards, or make deck of free Lorcana cards.

[@Mark-sz5rh]

I picked up (traded for) the Clue set because I'm an old gamer and I remember Family Game Nights where we would play Clue. So I got this set for the characters/places/weapons and the actual fun of playing Magic/Clue (it actually works really well). But the boosters in the set....yeah, they were bad. 2 Boros, 2 Dimir, 1 Simic, 1 Izzit, 1Rakdos. Now, the duplicates weren't actual duplicates. Each of those focused on 1 of their 2 colors. But NO, those boosters did NOT mix well together at all (we ended up using our own commander decks to play).

[@glenhaase6817]

Mark said they weren’t going to do mass Universes Within printings for people who just want random cards without outside IP, not that they wouldn’t do needed reprints.

[@CBuiscuit]

Depends on deck list for commander precon. My average deck I spend $200 on building because I don't usually buy the super expensive cards the decks could use. I bought the previous Eldrazi precon for $120 and after upgrades it's been my best deck since it came out. I remember seeing the singles for the deck coming out to around $200. So I'm at an impasse since to me they could be worth the price point, yet they could just as easily say we'll sell it for $20 and just print millions of it and rake in the cash. Cardboard rectangles are cardboard rectangles after all.

[@TheElfDad]

Why does modern need comman ders?

[@RainbowMarc]

I was hearing about all those insane prices and looked at the pre-order prices here in Germany. I was pleasantly surprised. Though they are still very high, comparatively, they are feeling almost reasonable 🙃 I hope there will not be any box toppers, because instead of a play booster box, I decided to go for gift bundles (77,50 Euro for 9 play boosters and 1 collector booster) and I was able to find the normal commander deck set for 184,50 and the collector's set for 392,99. The collector booster boxes are 325 Euros right now. All a bit more expensive, but with the 5 guaranteed rares and mythics in every collector booster, the full art eldrazi lands, a new sword, flipwalkers, reprints of the MH2 Elementals, etc I am still excited and I can't wait for the decks!

[@alexandercandicedad1355]

They couldn't even make the box 10 guilds per box, and each guild is semi-randomized, like they did with the theme boosters?!

[@mikes7423]

My collection is crashing in value as a consequence of over printing reprints. Won't buy packaged product anymore and I've become very choosy about the singles I obtain too.

[@seanmaxwell881]

I see a lot of comments on getting 2-3 packs of the same guild in the clue box. You're all missing that Wizards, in a typical cash grab, made 2 variants of each guild. 2 each of four guilds may be no dupe packs. Frim the few boxes I saw opened, it was pretty rare to get dupes of the same pack, but common enough to get at least one guild, both sets. It's still bad, but it's pretty similar to other jumpstart releases - no surprise.

[@Nephalem2002]

Rightfully raging over MH3; Why the fuck does this product need Commander Precons. You know what would’ve been better? MODERN PRECONS. Proper Mana Bases for each of the 4 Decks, each Deck is a Varient of one of the Tier 1 to Rogue Options that counter eachother well, god what is wizards afraid of? People playing more Modern, people buying more MH3?!

[@swervin5986]

I was gonna talk shit about some of these opinions but this guy is super into this and I am completely in support of that.

[@glennschroeder3828]

I think Arena's dirtiest trick is how they usually have a cube to draft just before a new set releases. They're trying to convince you to drain your resources so you don't have gold or gems saved up to draft the new set without spending more money. I know why they do it, but i just can't help myself and usually fall for it because I love cube drafts 😂

[@Sardanapulus]

Genuinely sad there are not going to be universe within versions printed of universe beyond cards :/

[@allahcT]

Bait 'N Switch

[@Beckola44]

CONGRATS on 56K Magic Historian. This does not surprise me anymore. Wizards loves to screw over the distributors, LGS and Players. They are shooting themselves in the foot for short term profits. Cocks and Williams are low life scumbags. Players should stop buying these OVERPRICED products. I am so glad I stopped playing Arena over 2 1/2 years ago. MH# prices may go down a bit but it is still a major RIPOFF just like Dominaria United, Commander Masters, and Ravnica Remastered. Players should not pay those ridiculous prices. You can buy some good cards on the Reserve List instead. Looks like I may buy some more Proxies. Rosewater is a jerk and is Wizards "Yes" man. Don't believe a word he says. It does not cost that much to print cards. Thank. you for the video Magic Historian.

[@ianhockert6339]

While I understand the anger at Wizards for the price/scarcity of these products, there is some legitimacy to Rosewater's statement about modern event decks. When the second set of commander decks came out the Grixis one contained True Name Nemesis and due to people playing that card in Legacy, that deck basically doubled or more in price if you could find it. Essentially, if they put a deck together with very strong reprint value at a significant discount over the secondary market, the deck will basically be scalped or they will print so much that the price of those cards will be driven into the ground. Neither of those options are good for the game. That being said, the price of Modern Horizons 3 is higher than people would like. I also understand that while I like the idea of collector versions of Commander decks (I will pay $150 for a pre blinged out commander deck; the $600 figure is for a case of all 4 commander decks), I can understand people not liking Commander Decks being attached to a Modern product. However, I would not be surprised if commander precons are one of Wizards bestselling product lines and that is probably why they did it.

[@Gzilla313]

Why use “enters” over “ETB” It saves more space and expresses the effect better

[@eldnahym]

WOTC uses the "just the tip" strategy for screwing consumers. 😂

[@sunseekerjules]

I pre-ordered the Fallout Decks I wanted months ago on Amazon simply because I knew that WoTC was gonna pull this stunt and it they might be expensive on the front end.

[@captaindb4998]

I got my deck box in the mail yesterday! ❤

[@TheMagicHistorian]

Yo, that is awesome! you are the first one to tell me that their deck box arrived.

[@captaindb4998]

@@TheMagicHistorian Fuck yeah 😎. It's awesome!

[@jscc1786]

My distro still has decks on open order - hope they reprint the crap out of the collector boxes though

[@yurisei6732]

I think it would probably have been better to just bite the bullet and keyword ETB effects, that way you don't have to worry about grammatical correctness and it becomes a little easier to spot "sorceries with bodies" cards. Make it a soft keyword and you can still easily fit the rarer versions. For sake of example, you can have "Summon: draw a card" and "Summon: When this card enters the battlefield from the graveyard, draw a card". As for "universes within", I kinda get it. There are a handful of neat cards that it would be nice to have more lore-friendly versions of, but the vast majority of a universes beyond release is just fluff, mechanically, and only works because of the IP (when they work at all). Is anyone really interested in seeing an MTG version of Bloatfly Swarm?

[@Seority]

Enters from the graveyard*

[@Reluxthelegend]

3:00 chinese players are also doing this but over the WotC Chinese channels, they aren't happy either.

[@christopherbailey3482]

ive just started printing proxys, so done with paying this company

[@RichardMitchell-nk9ec]

I wan a be in the gam abd be a rare or mythic cuz I have a bachelors degree or do everyone have them now

[@jaxonsevero1045]

The profit margin on mtg must be fucking insane for WOTC. Literally selling paper and ink for hundreds of dollars. Greed will kill MTG not “rising costs”

[@joeferreti9442]

Modern Horizon sets are the worst!

[@endersblade]

The way they handle Arena just blows my mind. They literally get FREE money, as it's all digital product, and yet they do scummy practices you'd expect for actual, tangible objects.

[@logangomesdasilva]

Proxys gain My Friends, that is It.

[@1987cadams]

I really hope they print more or have some on stand by like you are saying for fallout. My collector box got canceled and I dont want to pay the crazy price they are at now. Its a little upsetting cause Fallout is one of my favorite game series.

[@Babyboots1]

I have loved this game for most of my 37 years alive, I know WOTC doesn't care about me specifically but if univearses beyond come into standard/pioneer/modern, I'm the fuck OUT. Ps. Yes I'm aware lotr is modern legal.

[@DadofCheemsTCG]

I will be getting Fallout whenever I get my hands on them and then wait until Bloomborrow releases. I refuse to pay $600 for $200 worth of cards.

[@carljoly1363]

On Arena the "free" gems or golds were every 1-2 months, now it's everyone 3 months and it's alternating between gems and gold. Also I don't spend cash on the game, so I don't have a big collection, but It always seems that for midweek event, I get (the ridiculous) 20 gems, instead of a rare/mythic card.

[@sergeiyamagoro431]

Looking forward to seeing that content. 🤩

[@adamwarehime6444]

For me I'm strongly against the entire universe beyond stuff they can do away with it an I would be happy or make them only secret lairs cause I don't care about them either