MTG Top 10: Saviors of Kamigawa | The BEST Cards in one of Magic's WORST Sets | Episode 382

[@rattlesnek3847]

Maybe a low power level, but way up there in flavor and art direction.

[@TheGemoChamp]

WotC has definitely gotten better with top down design.

[@invertedghostgames9899]

For a set that was intentionally made to be weaker statistically, they did indeed make up for it with the lore and art. Cause hot damn, the art from this set was absolutely beautiful.

[@DimT670]

Its one of the first set that gave us legitimately consistent art direction which is awesome because before that the tone set by the art was basically either always samey generic fantasy regardless of set or nonexistent

[@destructimus]

That's a good point. One of the sets I regret not buying much of, now that older me has had time to look back and reflect.

[@stonechewer1227]

Facts

[@Graatand]

What about a “Worst (rare) cards of the strongest sets”? 🤔 What are the bulk rares of Urza’s Saga, Mirrodin, Eldraine, etc. that you never hear about?

[@jameshanus3813]

I’ll give you one from Eldraine. 1BB for a 0/0 that enters the battlefield with 4 counters and whenever taking damage it prevents it and loses a counter instead

[@phoebehamilton8957]

Sundering Stroke, Electryte, Tower of Eons

[@juliussiemes9569]

@@jameshanus3813 Aww man i remember opening that one and getting pretty salty about it, might be one of the worst rares I own.

[@ColtonSpears]

I started playing magic in Kamigawa. This brings back some nostalgia. I never realized it was considered a bad block though.

[@bugsySA]

Like Nizzahon said the first 2 sets were fine, Saviors was just really really bad.

[@SomeOfTheJuice]

Part of that is because of the overabundance of legendary creatures. There's many cards in that block that, had they not been legendary, would have made a much bigger impact on the game. Add in mechanics that, which thematically solid and interesting, just don't really get used anywhere outside of block, such as arcane, soulshift, bushido, etc. Even ninjutsu didn't do great, with Ink-Eyes I think being the only one to see much play later.

[@dyciefisk2535]

Considering that Mirroden block was before this, Kamigawa just couldn't compete. That and the fact that Ravnica came right after kind of left it by the wayside. There are some people wanting a revisit to Kamigawa so that it can get the justice it deserves/R&D can try again, depending on how you look at it.

[@Es-yb3db]

I started at the beginning of mirrorin, so my intro to magic was based on a pretty degenerate power level. I went to the CoK prerelease and even on that people were commenting on how weak of a set it was. I wasn't experienced enough yet to really see it, but in retrospect it was pretty obvious Noob days are such wholesome memories~

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

A lot of people scapegoated the standard formats problems of the time with Kamigawa (mirrordins affinity was running rampant until betrayers) since alot of the cards were powered down by comparison. A lot of overcosted spirits and samurai. It’s also just a badly timed set because 15 years ago, Americans weren’t privy to Japanese culture like they are in the 2010’s and so were turned off by the weirdness of the block artworks and creatures which is unfortunate. The block has since aged much better than most sets we consider bad.

[@bladerz1191]

I personally would love to see a return to kamigawa, although, it may just be the weeb in me talking.

[@PhysicsMathandMe]

[SPOILERS/RUMORS AHEAD] We might get a return to Kamigawa in the next year or so, but with a cyberpunk setting. The name "Kamigawa: Neon Destiny" was registered by Wizards of the Coast a few months ago.

[@bladerz1191]

@@PhysicsMathandMe I did not know this, i hope its true.

[@Blackvolttage]

@@bladerz1191 [[More Leaks if you are interested]] The timeline of the registration, with a leak about market research focus group wizards employed all suggest neon dinasty will come next year. The trail indicates that next sets will be: Innistrad 1 (with teferi, arlin and wren&...6? Arenn& 13?), innistrad 2 (both already know information) then return to dominaria and then kamigawa, maybe with a set in between (and its not impossible to be the other way around, they should announce theen all together anyway). Another leak that was 100% right so far in stuff that no one can just guess (from mh2 Grist being a creature, free evoke cycle to kaldheim foretell and so on) also talked about "Gin Gitaxas, Reality Hacker"

[@jonathantillian6528]

@@PhysicsMathandMe Yup, people are complaining about Warhammer 40k MtG being a thing, but no one is batting an eye at cyberpunk Mtg

[@TheLuckySpades]

Hope you enjoyed NEO as much as I did

[@kieranl5249]

Kamigawa block was one of the best of all time, great lore, flavorful mechanics, amazing design

[@mitchellgetsreckt4066]

Stop the cap

[@mattblom3990]

This is a really good series Nizzahon, just wanted to give some encouragement. Keep it up!

[@jonathanstoger5566]

I loved the art style of kamigawa block

[@headshiphero]

Really appreciate these turn back time videos. I started playing in 8E and remember these cards really well. I'd really like to see a mammoth list of all cards, even just written down. Although I guess that would spoil all of your top 10s!

[@danielvanderklift5802]

I had no idea savoirs, or even the whole block, was considered bad. Kamigawa block is honestly one of my favorites

[@techoutsider5631]

Me too, and I only started playing in 2019

[@blabik]

It was weaker on purpose because the block before it was Mirrodin. That set was so strong that Wizards made the next one weak to balance it out and not lose customers.

[@TheShinyFeraligatr]

@@blabik Mirrodin Block wasn't even overpowered, Darksteel was a bit above average at best but evened out by Fifth Dawn being highly underpowered, but the problem was all the really powerful stuff (except KCI and Belcher, which are powerful as combo enablers) happened to be colorless artifacts and play well with each other so they all fit into the same deck. When Affinity got banned in Standard, the power level of the format as a whole dropped dramatically.

[@joedominguez8064]

Kamigawa had probably one of my favorite storylines in magic, super cool set.

[@dexterkairaiuak2955]

I used to ramp with Sakura Tribe Elder, Kodoma's Reach, Drop the 5 color Dragons, Genji of the Realm, Wraths, Shrines. So much fun.

[@stevenglowacki8576]

I remember working the pre-release. It was the lowest turnout ever. People were up in arms about how low the prize support was, because the organizers couldn't afford much since they paid way too much for the venue considering the amount of people that showed up.

[@alaraplatt8104]

top 10 worst art is one of my favorites of your videos, so i was thinking today that i'd also like to see top 10 art and/or top 10 artists!

[@currentseer8919]

Oboro is still in play in modern decks with landfall triggers. Specifically, modern mill decks with ruin crab and hedron crab. If you didn’t draw a land that turn, and oboro is in play, you can tap it to add it back to your hand, to play it again, and activate a landfall trigger to mill cards again.

[@anarchymatt]

the names of the card's are cool; for instance manrikigusari means something like "full power chain" 万力鎖 (the characters mean that, but I just looked it up and it is a name for a ninja weapon)

I am legitimately surprised Ideas Unbound isn't used more given how efficient of a drawspell it is. The downside realistically isn't even there.

[@NizzahonMagic]

I think the fact that the discard doesn't happen immediately is what keeps it from being played more.

@@NizzahonMagic I guess that's fair. I've been playing around with it for awhile now and it never seems like a dead draw at any point.

[@geinerelizondo2019]

I love the lore of Kamigawa; I want to see what they do the next year!

[@Kagebushin01]

Kamigawa was the block I started playing with and I hate how people call it the worst set. Homelands was the worst set not Kamigawa.

[@EEE_MMM]

I'm amazed Kataki never gained points in standard, especially considering it was in the same standard as Mirrodin...

[@ViashinoWizard]

By the time it was printed, affinity decks had already had their key cards banned out of standard.

[@monocommander1292]

And also, if i remember correctly, the standard back there was so unhealthy, they were nearly no standard gp for a year, and kamigawa got played again in official standard event after the rotation of mirrodin out

[@EEE_MMM]

@@ViashinoWizard Fair enough, I didn't play standard at the time so I may not have had my timeline straight :-)

[@andyspendlove1019]

9:55 wait there weren’t any relevant artifact decks in Standard with Mirrodin block? I don’t know a lot about historical Standard formats, but I thought Affinity decks and Modular decks were a thing back then…?

[@TheShinyFeraligatr]

Saviors hit right after Affinity got punted out of the format, and there were no Standard tournaments from around Darksteel's time to Ravnica CoG. One of the unfortunate failings of this type of scoring system is that a lot of really good cards and decks end up being left out because Wizards used to be horribly inconsistent about organized play - if there were more tournaments during KAMI/RAV Standard a few cards would be on the list purely from Ghost Dad, for example.

[@Hundo_Mo]

6:47 my friends hate me for using Oboro with Hedron Crabs/Ruin Crabs. It always guarantees me at least a land drop a turn. And, it can pay for itself to bounce itself. 🦀 🦀 🦀

[@johngleeman8347]

Saviors of Pithing Needle. XD

[@l.p.7585]

Minamo tapping for double blue to hit unbound ideas in your pyromancer deck was always top

[@PlasticSiding]

started mtg in kamigawa, I know people hate it but easily my #1 block

[@rowerewolf]

When these Top 10 lists come out, I normally guess the #1 slot wrong. But not this time.

[@SamuraiMotoko]

If they Made most of cards 1 colorless mana cheaper they would be pretty good and acceptable cards

[@thenextchicken]

Kamigawa is probably my favorite set of all time despite the many flaws it had.

[@justinreschke3642]

Remember when a 2/2 for 2 with protection from a single color was really good... Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[@samuelpaulson6416]

In my opinion, underpowered sets like Saviors of Kamigawa aren’t bad at all. I would consider them to be very good in fact. It increased the number of unique cards and effects that players have access to when brewing decks. The “bad” sets are the massively overpowered sets that irrevocably change the nature of eternal formats (sometimes for the better, but usually for the worse and there is no way to go back to the way the format used to be if you really loved it).

[@ninjacom3]

I love how 90 percent of this set was clunky unusable pseudo jank, and 10 percent remains among the most obnoxious cards in commander to this day.

[@oORoOFLOo]

I started at 8th edition and I remember when kamigawa came out I absolutely hated it. It didn't look like anything I knew from magic, which was mainly Mirrodin and forementioned 8th edition. Nowadays Kamigawa is becoming my favourite block due to the number of hidden gems in that block. So many EDH playables or just interesting cards that make people read them. My favourite's Samurai of the Pale Curtain atm.

[@kaseybennett7415]

Weird note, but I think you look much better in darker shirts when your camera is on.

[@Triceratopping]

was surprised not to see Freed from the Real, Promise of Bunrei or Erayo on this list, but maybe those are more for commander or other formats? Can't believe the super-powerful One with Nothing didn't make the list, smh.

[@jormgundtheballast7397]

😆😅😂🤣 love it. Though I too am surprised to not see Freed from the Real.

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

Champions and betrayers of kamigawa have aged better than a majority of sets people call bad and I’d argue they’re better than sets people consider good or rather, the ones people excuse because they are from the old border days.

[@spawnofmelkor]

So sad that One With Nothing didn't show up on this list. It started its life as an Owling Mine sideboard card, and was a decent Hogaak accelerator for a moment there.

[@adancein]

I'm surprised Oboro hasn't seen play in Landfall decks - is landfall a thing in modern/legacy/vintage?

[@NizzahonMagic]

If it had ever been in Zendikar Standard it probably would have, but landfall isn't really a deck anywhere. Legacy has a "lands" deck with a land fall sub-theme, but it doesn't have any Blue, so it isn't interested.

[@adancein]

@@NizzahonMagic Thanks for the explanation!

[@edwardfranklin4467]

I see the copy of wingspan there! That's me and my mums favourite board game! Do you have the Oceania expansion? It's really good

[@MrKurtiso]

His slight monotone voice gives me comfort for some odd reason

[@inujosha]

For Ideas Unbound, if you were able to cast all cards in your hand before your end step, would it just negate the discard effect or did you have to keep at least 3 cards to discard?

[@NizzahonMagic]

You don't have to keep any cards. If you have fewer than three you discard your whole hand. If your hand is 0, you don't discard anything obviously.

[@inujosha]

@@NizzahonMagic OK sorry. I wasn't sure if you had to have the exact amount in your hand because I was playing with this black card once, can't remember the name, but it's a 5/5 for 1 colorless and 2 black that requires you to discard a card as an additional cost. Sorry if my questions are stupid. I'm trying to get back into magic after over 10 years out of it and all of the new changes have me a little overwhelmed trying to relearn everything.

[@ravenknightvincent2722]

Why did Kataki not score any Standard points? I assume, however short, it will still be in sideboard due to sharing a Standard format with Mirrodin block and its affinity decks.

[@JB-ym3vj]

Affinity had already been more-or-less banned out of the format by the time Kataki was printed.

[@BlakeFaeMorton]

I was surprised any cards are above the lands, except for Pithing Needle of course.

[@latsblaster]

Kataki didn't score points back then but artifacts were relevant in standard (mirrodin-block).

[@NizzahonMagic]

The artifact deck had been banned into oblivion by the time Kataki showed up

[@latsblaster]

@@NizzahonMagic There wasn't more Good artifacts around than those banned?

[@DaveyDAKFAE]

I've been looking at getting the board game Wingspan. Is the gameplay as good as the art? Would you recommend it?

[@NizzahonMagic]

The game play is as good as the art, would definitely recommend, especially if you like games and birds.

[@Scooter_Alice]

Enduring ideal seems like it would work really great with the enchantment creatures from the Theros sets

[@Valnjes]

Kamigawa is my most favorite set, i love the draft! Wish Kamigawa came back...

[@pepijnwarmerdam8784]

Kamigawa block had too many mechanics that just didn't quite work out but it was very well done flavour wise. Saviours had all the problems of the third set in a block being the weakest and some pretty dreadfull cards.

[@thomassolecky87]

I used to love this set because it was when I really got back into magic I remember my green monk deck it was so much fun

[@SoukouAkkiKadorus]

Where is One with Nothing?

[@LeonusStawalker]

It'd be neat to get a video that's the opposite, the worst cards in sets that most people think are full of strong cards. Preferably more a more modern set like Eldraine or Amonket since old sets will have lots of bad creatures by modern standards.

[@Ceracio]

That would be a great idea, but unfortunately it would probably just be full of vanilla creatures and common spells that don't do much, or are overcosted. It would get pretty damn repetititive after the first couple of cards, I would wager.

[@n.m5253]

@@Ceracio you could do it with rares and mythics only.

[@corey2232]

I'm just really surprised Wizards hasn't felt a need to return to Kamigawa after all this time. Not only does it give us a chance to revisit a plane, but it gives them a chance to redeem & build upon a set generally seen as pretty weak but with interesting lore & concepts.

[@NizzahonMagic]

I think it is pretty much confirmed we will be returning in 2022.

[@YTzinkk]

great list

[@PokeBattlerJaze]

Sooooo Pithing Needle?

[@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor]

I actually never got the hate behind Kamigawa. Mostly because my favourite deck (soulshift tribal) comes from there. But still, like I hope for more Soulshift cards, I hope for "Top 10 Vintage Cards (Minus Power 9)"!

[@dyciefisk2535]

People who were playing at that time don't have fond memories because "It did nothing to curb the overpoweredness that was Mirroden block" And it's been sort of forgotten because it was sandwiched between Mirroden and Original Ravnica. Some people are wanting a revisit to Kamigawa so that is can have an actual chance to stand on it's own.

[@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor]

@@dyciefisk2535 Yeah, I get that feeling. But I agree with Pretty Deece, people didn't quit *because* of Kamigawa, they quit because Wizards did nothing to stop Affinity until it was too late. But yeah, people probably would have fonder views of Kamigawa if it wasn't tainted by the never dying scourge that is Affinity..

[@stigmaoftherose]

should do top ten dragons maze. It is the best set ever made after all.

[@HazelnutColossus]

How about a top 10 all time list? Cards that have accumulated the most points across all formats? Unless there already is one

[@MPfist0]

So ebony owl doesn't make the list?

[@AqueleGamer]

Kataki is completely absurd, it's almost one-card win con against artifact decks

[@necrogenesis1981]

I run it in my Alesha EDH deck, it's gross because I can just sac it every turn and bring it back. I also have magus of the Tabernacle for a similar effect.

[@henlohenlo689]

in vintage alot of decks run mana rocks equipments affinity vedlakin shackles ischron sceptor walking ballista the list is LONG some of strongest cards and decks have loads of artifacts. if running white kataki wars wage and stony silence some must adds in my opinion if playing vintage and running white. problem is though how to build a competitive deck in white in vintage using these cards.

[@SeanHrecho]

Actually Manriki-Gusari probably won't see any future points because Kaldra Compleat is the new equipment to get, and it's indestructible.

[@necrogenesis1981]

I doubt it, Kaldra Compleat is 14 mana to cast and equip, it's not even that good in commander for that reason even though 14 mana is technically nothing.

[@stevenglowacki8576]

@@necrogenesis1981 Kaldra Compleat is 2 mana to put into play, like all equipment (Stoneforge Mystic), and doesn't need to have the equip cost paid because of Living Weapon. It's generally the fastest available clock now for decks that play Stoneforge Mystic.

[@necrogenesis1981]

@@stevenglowacki8576 Why wouldn't you wanna put it on a better creature though? That germ token is nothing. I would put it on something huge for excessive damage.

[@stevenglowacki8576]

Sure, you might *want* to put it on a bigger creature, but you don't *have to*. It's a 5/5 haste trample etc for the low cost of 2 mana and tapping your Stoneforge Mystic, who even found it for you. That's plenty good enough to win games by itself in competitive formats where Stoneforge is legal, which is the context for Manriki-gusari. The latter is just pointless now that it won't destroy one of the most relevant targets.

[@necrogenesis1981]

@@stevenglowacki8576 I guess that's just my Timmy side coming out lol, I tend to have a weakness for big numbers and lots of keywords lol

[@toastghost9145]

Honestly, I would be interested in seeing strongest sets overall.

[@AkhierDragonheart]

Kamigawa is my favorite block. Though mostly because of the story that goes with it

[@ianilgner5556]

pithing needle my beloved

[@officialbusy]

the first set I played in standard

[@shinsua_]

One of the worst things affecting Kamigawa was the legend rule at the time. Try playing any format with the old rules for legends and walkers. You'd see that WotC has done just as bad, if not worse sets since Kami

[@davidminor4213]

What are the top 10 sets?

[@EpicCrossovers]

If Wizards hates Kamigawa so much and never want to go back to it, they should make a story where the Eldrazi destroy it forever then it answers the fan's questions

[@demilembias2527]

I have no idea the hate for original kamigawa, as long as a set is well designed within its own format and has good flavor and art direction, it really doesn't matter if it's a little underpowered for the meta of high level formats, so its really dumb that people complain about that. especially because it was right after mirrodin and I'm guessing a bunch of designers at wizards had their jobs on the line if they made cards that allowed anything as broken as affinity decks in standard again.

[@stevenglowacki8576]

Ideas Unbound is played in Legacy Doomsday. I'm guessing that's never made a Legacy Championship Top 8? That doesn't mean that it doesn't have any impact on Legacy, which is one of the flaws of your scoring for the Eternal formats, especially Legacy. Legacy is a very deep format, so just looking at the Top 8s doesn't give you a good picture.

[@UrsielHauke]

C'mon wizards, give us weebs another Kamigawa block

[@derrickbuhonick3105]

I know you said you’re doing the worst sets. I’d just like to see the top 10 from every set!

[@NizzahonMagic]

I will do every set eventually - and I have already done several sets not considered bad!

[@KnucklesEki]

Kamigawa is actually my favorite block. Part of me wants to see my home plane revisited, but at the same time... each time a plane is revisited, it ends up getting wrecked (Mirrodin plz), so...

[@tmakalpha1]

Same, but the time difference between the story's setting and the rest of the MTG lore makes it so unlikely that they'll come back to it. Also, as the story tells us, the kami-human war wrecked enough of the plane, so idk how else they can top it.

[@necrogenesis1981]

Rumor has it we're going back, but it'll be a cyberpunk setting, personally I hope it's true because I love cyberpunk.

[@magiccardmaster9921]

Ironic number 1 is a big meme card the needle

[@Methylimidazol]

How comes that there was "not really a relevant artifact deck" in 2005, when Mirrodin was still Standard legal?

[@AsgneonthebesT]

I think cause it was block so no mirrodin cards?

[@ptpjaydee9131]

In 2005 they banned the Artefact lands without the white one, disciple of the vault, skullclamp and arcbound ravager.

[@Methylimidazol]

@@AsgneonthebesT In Block, sure, but in Standard...? Anyway, Betrayers was the last of the Kamigama Sets, so the overlap with Mirrodin in Standard until rotation was not long. Maybe that's why.

[@necrogenesis1981]

How have these expensive cards not gone down in price if they haven't earned points in years?

[@Sweetguy1821]

Commander/EDH, just because it's not seen in top competitive play doesn't mean it's not used in other formats.

[@necrogenesis1981]

@@Sweetguy1821 I know, I play commander but I figured only competitive formats drive prices because they were careers before the pro league was dissolved. Most pros seem to hate commander because you can't make money so they have no incentive to buy the cards.

[@albaniaalban]

@@necrogenesis1981 Commander is the most popular format AFAIK. Pros and people who compete beyond FNM level is such a small portion of the player base that it isn't surprising EDH drives prices about as much as the spikes.

[@NimbusAlamaa]

@@necrogenesis1981 High demand (and/or low supply for things like cards on the reserved list) are what drive prices - so while cards being good in competitive formats does drive prices up (see fetch lands), the fact that commander is the most heavily played format causes a ton of cards to be super expensive

[@stevenglowacki8576]

Commander is currently the main driver of prices. There are orders of magnitude more Commander players than competitive.

[@elementaleighteight]

Here i was kinda liking kamigama anyways

[@PsionicMonk]

Wish they'd give Kamigawa another chance. It was doomed from the start with how much Affinity ruined tons of fun for players. There are tons of great mechanics that could be implemented better now a days.

[@larryla6121]

top 10 which set made the least impact and top 10 which made the most impct in all formats

[@jacobs483]

I wish the format would return to focus on the card art and the card examples in the introduction and not the talking head format.

[@dartheincarnate]

still better than rolling d20 :D

[@TrumanTheGrayMerchant]

Brace yourself for the Kamigawa truthers

[@MegatronYES]

Just started Ghost of Tsushima this past weekend (incredible btw, can’t recommend it enough it is like the total opposite of stupid Kingdom Come) and I have been ruminating about this set this weekend

[@john_john_xd1516]

top 10 mutate

[@shikabaneconga]

i missed this

[@LOIMPAVIDOCROCIATO]

I have several booster boxes of saviors of kamigawa in italian. 😁

[@UltimaterializerX]

You’d be really handsome if you shaved your head, bro. Speaking from experience!

[@gottinrod]

Damn i hated...HATED playing that standard...HATED IT SO MUCH more than the previous affinity era. Did not make me quit... but came damn close to it.

[@crisgroom3857]

Just because cards have an impact on the game, doesn't mean it was good for the game. Kamigawa made me quit for about 10 years.

[@gantzisballs]

What? Why? It was a flavorful set that was more balanced than the broken and degenerate Mirrodin that came before it. It was pretty amusing in limited and still offered staple cards for modern, legacy, and commander. Not to mention introducing cult favorite tribes like ninja, orochi, samurai, and rat which are all still played.

[@ZappasMudshark]

I love your videos but please stop moving your hands up and down. Love ya bud.

[@blacklancejeo6625]

Oboro can be made broken with the correct landfall decks

[@gladvlad2755]

sideboard card lives matter