MTG Top 10: Sorceries | Episode 33

[@Ratt_Piss]

"Thoughtseize is the most powerful discard spell in all of magic" It gets 1 card for 1 mana and 2 life, where One with Nothing can get 6 usually also for 1 mana and no life.

[@NizzahonMagic]

Lawl

[@imsorrydave9000]

Can’t argue with facts

[@felixeisenmenger6254]

@@imsorrydave9000 Technically true is the best kind of true

[@colepointon4169]

I do agree but i assume its due to the fact you get to look at the opponents hand as well, so you can play around their cards

[@mightyone3737]

Seriously though, anyone claiming Thoughtseize is anywhere near as unfair as Mind Twist have never been Mind Twisted for 3 or 4 cards at random. Usually you still have a fighting chance in a non-combo deck vs Thoughtseize, but Mind Twist ends friendships. Just as Taylor Swift!

[@jacfac9969]

They should make a sorcery with flash

[@henningbrown5687]

Jackson Wald but what would they call them? Speedies? Quickies?

[@Vaknuva]

Well they have made sorceries that can gain flash if you pay an additional cost of some sort

[@hankschaefer4381]

omg thats just an instant, i hope you're joking

[@fragniz]

Hank Kopta That's why I would love to see a sorcery with flash in an Un set if Wizards ever decides to make more.

[@hankschaefer4381]

Garfield Arbukle yikes im dumb

[@ImSquiggs]

This series is seriously addicting... great stuff dude, I've been loving these videos so far.

[@NizzahonMagic]

Glad you're enjoying them!

[@MrBurnsyboy12]

I love the new 5 color combo logo. very simple, clean, and it really stands out without being too long. Also great content

[@Vensris]

MrBurnsyboy12 I was about to say the same thing!

[@plr2473]

Wow. Drown in Sorrow has amazing art!

[@osuasheuatl]

I was pretty surprised Lingering Souls didn't make the cut. Great vid as always.

[@dragonkingxd29]

I really appreciate how straightforward you are with how you determine your rankings. All in all a very good list, and was a little surprised to not see Treasure Cruise on the list. I guess it was banned out of most formats before it could build too big of a resume.

[@NizzahonMagic]

+Greg Johnson Thanks! Some people are frustrated by my methodology, but I think,it is an interesting and useful way of looking back at cards. And Yeah, bannings often really hurt cards' chances on lists like these.

[@RagingPoo]

Show and Tell? I'm sure in legacy alone it has put up more results than many on this list.

[@M0mentum11]

Dubious Challenge is on the list right?

[@clydegrey5061]

Lorwyn block made the list a couple of times! Super happy lol.

[@modernminded5466]

Cards on power nine or not more powerful than other cards just because they are on that list. I don't think you can find a single decent player who claims Yawgmoth's Will isn't better than Timetwister.

[@NizzahonMagic]

That's a good point.

[@Menosh]

To be fair, Timetwister is probably the only exception to the Power 9's power level.

[@BenziTrain]

@@Menosh I think timewalk is weaker.

[@Menosh]

@@BenziTrain ...I sincerely doubt a 2 mana extra turn spell is weaker than a wheel effect, but I don't feel like arguing, so whatever

[@TheTomac]

@@Menosh I applaud your restraint. if he thinks that now, he is very unlikely to be able to learn why he is extremely wrong. But I do not share this restraint. Ben Train, you are a fucking moron.

[@TheHive616]

Watching this now... The channel has come a long way

[@WisdomIsPrecious]

This list explains why my black red dragon control deck in Tarkir kicked so much ass I had 4 of the cards in this list in it

[@treejr1000]

I don't think they see much play in top 8's but that does make me interested in perhaps a Top 10 Eldrazi

[@isaoblack987]

Its a shame that things like Balance, Mind Twist and Hymn dont even get an honorable mention. Alas I think they are too old to get anywhere based on the criteria involved.

[@NizzahonMagic]

+Isao Black Yeah at one point I considered doing about 10 honorable mentions for the list - Channel and Fireball are also worthy.

[@Jonathan-qk5ed]

Hymn to Tourach, Preordain, and Contract from Below? (I know the last one never really saw play, but lets be honest it's the best by a long shot.)

[@TheRusty]

"Thoughtseize is the most powerful discard spell in all of magic." Mind Twist and Hymn to Tourach would like a word.

[@mattd3978]

I can see hymn being up there, but mind twist over thoughtseize I'm not sure about

[@davidminor4213]

Technically, One With Nothing wins by a landslide

[@mightyone3737]

@@mattd3978 Clearly you have not dealt with Mind Twist much? It is deeply unfair.

[@mattd3978]

@@mightyone3737 you're right I haven't, I'm just thinking of overcoming the Mana efficiency of the card

[@bwuceli3801]

When he called "The Deck" Esper Control I shit myself.

[@IanPeon]

"Toxic Deluge" + "Demonic Tutor" + "Green Sun's Zenith" + "Fabricate" all shoulda' been on this list somewhere, if only for EDH players. Plus yeah, "Hymn to Tourach" is better than your # 1s, as evidenced by it getting banned in standard. Totally agree with "Gitaxian Probe" though.

[@Shadouga]

Honestly expected Ponder to take the top, but I'm happy to see it still place #2- so much value for the one mana cost

[@Brolgari]

A few guesses I have: Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Pyroclasm?

[@Brolgari]

Nice, I got #1 and #3

[@NizzahonMagic]

+Brandon Matheson Well done

[@Brolgari]

Thank you kindly, I really enjoy your top 10 videos. I think a top 10 combos would be interesting.

[@NizzahonMagic]

Brandon Matheson Definitely a topic I will get to one of these days.

[@nathanrao-maillet1600]

No Inquisition

[@davidminor4213]

Maelstrom Pulse. The lone green representative. I know this is old, but what is the #1 mono green sorcery?? Is it traverse? Kinda wouldn't be shocked if it turned out to be attune with aether ....

[@rom65536]

Turn one Thoughtseize is bad? Sonny, back in my day we feared turn 1 triple dark ritual followed by Mind Twist.

[@Morgormir]

I really think you should reconsider the grading system, as it edges out the actual best sorceries in mtg. The fact that demonic tutor, yawgmoth's will and hymn to tourach (not to mention entomb exhume and goryo's vengeance) aren't anywhere to be seen is very telling.

[@NizzahonMagic]

Goryo's Vengeance is an Instant, silly.

[@lyraharrow3005]

リンク 天皇陛下 as is Entomb.

[@nonameimpotantlive9233]

No card beats Timewalk that card is beyond broken

[@sybmike]

I was absolutely certain that Demonic Tutor was going to make number 1 on this list.

[@sonesofficial]

i think hymn to tourach is #1

[@jaredt2590]

Oh duress is incredible, I've still got mine from Urza's saga.

[@TempestDacine]

Does any card in any list even come close to thoughtseize? Amazing how massive its score is

[@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos]

Why no Preordain? Actually, this is a chennel-wide phenomenon: the PT/GP top 8s as a metric does tend to miss (1) powerful old cards and (2) banned cards.

[@alexbaker9578]

His whole ranking system is very poor

[@Semmelein]

@@alexbaker9578 Any thoughts on how it could be improved?

[@birdman22b]

Powerful old cards are typically banned as well. I do believe if a card is banned in a non rotating format, it should receive compensation points of some sort based on each year it was banned. I just watched the top 10 instants video before this. Both are older cards. Brainstorm at that time was slowly catching Ancestral Recall which is strictly better but banned in legacy and restricted in vintage.

[@Finngrinder]

if this wasn't GP/Pro Tour based: Honorable Mention Tendrils of Agony, Top 0 Sorceries Tinker, Yawg Will, Time Walk

[@DesolatorMagic]

You should use a higher bitrate encoding for your audio track. It sounds like you're underwater.

[@NizzahonMagic]

That's good, because I generally record underwater.

[@DesolatorMagic]

Nizzahon Magic *gaaaaasp* you're the long lost Merfolk leader! :P

[@Zologe]

LaBass666 and your hostility can leave too. Constructive Criticism =/= hate.

[@ghostlyjester9134]

I want u to show off how the release of certain skills like haste vigilance trample etc. Even the more obscure ones like haunt and infect effected the game. 1 being the most impactful and 10 being the least impactful the only rules for the video should be that the ability in question must be able to be on a creature with enchantments sorcery etc., along with your normal point system

[@TheMaskedHero]

Ponder did nothing during its first printing in Lorwyn?

[@jaredt2590]

Wrath of God reaches it potential in creatureless decks.

[@boolieman]

One small note, you didn't mention that Supreme Verdict is in legacy, usually sideboard of Miracles, did this add to the points? You should include it in there as for what I've seen it seems to be ubiquitous in the sideboards of Miracles.

[@NizzahonMagic]

It does add to the points, when I was going through and looking at the formats of individual events I think I must have forgotten to check Legacy.

[@muchograndeyolatengo]

Seems silly that neither time walk, tinker, show and tell or yawgmoth's will is on the list. Seems like the point system could need an upgrade where wins in older formats accumulate more points than in newer formats.

[@ettoreozzy9932]

Nice I actually thought Ponder and Serum Visions would be the #1 happy to see my lovely black discards are number one- thought they would be number 2 XD I wonder if Lightning Bolt would be a top 1~3 in a instants top 10, I would guess #2 or #3. Keep it up the good work :D

[@NizzahonMagic]

+Ettore Ozzy Yeah Bolt is my prediction for number 1 there. I will get there eventually!

[@Maximxj750]

Serum visions will be number 1 I am guessing.

[@krosnest0713]

Could you do if you haven't done it already a top 10 for instants?

[@Lost1nTheFog]

It's just going to be burn spells , counters, and removal.

[@fxyang1989]

How does inquisition do on this list? What's the score for it? I think that's a more popular discard spell in modern.

[@NizzahonMagic]

Inquisition has a score of 76, and so narrowly missed the list (tied with Mizzium Mortars, for 11th if you're curious). It has 66 GP Top 8s, but only 5 PT top 8s. It is a good candidate to get itself on to the list within a year or so I'd say.

[@TheLodfeltBrothers]

I get that you cand find data for top 8's when knowing what card to "search for" but how do you find the actual 10 to begin with? I mean how do you know that for example Anger of the gods is top 10 before knowing to seartch for its top 8's in differend tournaments? Interesting data which make the list relevant :)

[@NizzahonMagic]

+The Lodfelt Brothers I go to gatherer, look up all the sorceries, and search for every single one of them on mtgtop8.com. It takes a lot of time, that's why I don't do it week in and week out.

[@TheLodfeltBrothers]

Oh that sounds like a lot of work indeed! Makes a good list at least :)

[@palkia192]

I am so sad that Ponder and Preordain are banned in modern.

[@NizzahonMagic]

Yeah, it's probably the reason that there's no real control deck in Modern.

[@imyerf5382]

As a stats nerd, should probably normalize scores that cards get from being in standard with how many runs they had through standard, cards with multiple standard formats are getting more opportunities for points with nothing to do with its power level

[@northeastoperations]

Demonic tutor

[@thejuggernautofspades9453]

I think they should add back phylaxyan Mana cards, it would be cool to see them printed again

[@davidminor4213]

They shouldn't, but at some point they like will in a mh

[@nathanrao-maillet1600]

Inquisition of Kozilek?

[@malcolmweissman5602]

Def though it was going to be git probe!

[@MrDebauch]

i can't believe no yawg-win on this list

[@crisgale8098]

so many people getting upset that you didn't include a card lol. watch the start of the video. it's not the best cards in a vacuum it's the cards that have the most wins

[@NizzahonMagic]

+Our Lord and Savior Mountain Dew Supernova Yep pretty standard on my top 10s!

[@TheBatCave09]

RIP Gitaxian Probe (Modern)

[@NizzahonMagic]

And good riddance?

[@Lost1nTheFog]

It only hurt storm really.

[@davidminor4213]

Two years later, banned in Pauper

[@ubeentrolled]

My take away from this video: "there are more than 1000 sorcerys in magic's history." That's it!?

[@MageSkeleton]

how about doing sublists of like "top ten enchantment removal sorceries" and then "top ten creature removal sorceries"????

[@evakajetaniak]

Yawgmoth's Will?

[@Finngrinder]

You only gain that much of Twister in Combo decks though. Not P9 worthy at all since it refills your opponent's hands in a format full of Force of Will, Daze, Drain and Mental Misstep. Still a strong card, but it really needs specifically Storm to shine

[@herringway434]

Neither collected company nor chord of calling? I'm surprised

[@NizzahonMagic]

Both are Instants, so that's probably why.

[@herringway434]

*facepalm* I'm an idiot. I think it might be like one with nothing where they just popped into my head as powerful sorceries even though they aren't.

[@Leelee-Brown]

I do find that the ranking system seems to leave out prevalence in vintage and I guess EDH? Similarly for Highlander and Pauper probably.

[@NizzahonMagic]

+Chris Brown EDH, Highlander and Pauper aren't really competitive formats. Not in the same sense as others. You're right about Vintage though, I have changed things in more recent videos so it is more adequately represented.

[@jaredt2590]

Serum Visions and Ponder I don't use. If it was just Look at the cards and rearrange them I wouldn't have an issue but if you keep them there your opponent knows there's something there unless you're just trying to fool them but why would you do that and give them a possible advantage if they get good draws? There's better cards that let me draw and keep what I have a secret I use to keep my hand full.

[@NizzahonMagic]

The way you think about Magic cards is...interesting, let's say.

[@llama762xd5]

#3 was legal in zendikar

[@filipzo]

I have never realized that duress was so powerfull :O

[@davidminor4213]

Pauper sideboard staple too

[@JO11190]

The thing is, it's VERY strong against control, and shit almost everywhere else. The ultimate sideboard card. It's very hard to maindeck because it's (almost) useless against aggro and there's no point in going one of, or two of. It's the kind of card you want to play early when it's good. Basically when it's good it's very good and when it's bad it's very bad. Thoughtseize fixes both those issues and is just very good all the time.

[@ashzciwobuz1277]

shahrazad should have made number one just sayin. Jokes aside your channel is amazing keep up the good work

[@NizzahonMagic]

+Ash Aman Shahrazad is a cool card referencing real world literature at least! Glad you enjoy the content.

[@Bitchfinder_General]

Ash Zciwobuz I

[@Lovuschka]

I have NO CLUE why Shahrazad was banned in all formats. Must have something to do with it being too powerful. No, jokes aside, it was because it is too time-consuming.

[@russellclement6633]

Because it lost at its own side/mini game.

[@procrobat]

Any plans on addressing Frontier?

[@procrobat]

Also my guesses would be like Gitaxian Probe or Inquisition of Kozilek probably.

[@NizzahonMagic]

+procrobat There are lots of things I want to address like Frontier and recent spoilers, but been too busy for the impromptu videos lately, just getting time to do the regularly scheduled ones!

[@NizzahonMagic]

procrobat Surprisingly, Inquisition finished just outside this top 10. I was surprised too!

[@fred-ss4ym]

Opt > serum visions

[@NizzahonMagic]

Yeah this video is older than Opt.

[@nathanrao-maillet1600]

Tutors?

[@Srynan]

Shardless BUG ... isn't that sultai nowadays?

[@jpancake84]

it makes me sad that these are only rated by PT/GP stats. many great cards don't see GP/PT play but are amazing.

[@NizzahonMagic]

+jacob pancake True. But a pretty good measure of a cards power is whether it ever saw play at the highest level.

[@someperson7622]

heard that, ashes to ashes liked your comment and said, I am awesome aren't I and exhaustion, I love a good old, opportunely timed exhaustion

[@Finngrinder]

Nizzahon Magic , it's actually just to an extent. The best sorceries ever printed were removed from the bigger scene after a super short time, like Yawg Will and Tinker.

[@itzmagictime8824]

Uh no Ad Nauseam?

[@nikos731]

Let's see if no1 is Ponder or Thoughtseize.....

[@xunxekri]

My guess: Grapeshot.

[@astrawberrypoptart]

What about divest?

[@JO11190]

Divest is pretty much the aggro version of Duress. Honestly, a VERY good sideboard card, but a sideboard card. As most format age control usually dominates aggro, and is why duress has the edge there. But I see your point.

[@meryatathagres1998]

"Thoughtseize is the most powerful discard spell in all of magic" Mind Twist and Hymn to Tourach disagree. Keyword manascrew.

[@lorekeeper685]

One with nothing

[@liemsolow3697]

"Not something I can do week in and week out" Seems like you do now, lol

[@NizzahonMagic]

Haha I mean top 10s on whole card types. Way more research than my average list.

[@arackofhats5235]

I really disagree with your scoring system, your methodology makes it extremely hard for older powerful cards to get onto the list simply due to exposure. A few of these i agree with. It has an extreme favor towards modern and standard.

[@deathByStupid]

What's the alternate scoring system you would suggest?

[@Finngrinder]

@@deathByStupid actual card power/cost/efficiency. That puts Yawgmoth's Will, Time Walk, Tinker, Balance, Demonic Tutor, Imperial Seal, Channel, Wheel of Fortune and several others way above all the cards put here

[@deathByStupid]

You don't answer the question. Whats the alternate rating system? It wouldnt be practical for Nizzie to build decks using the card to compare them. He has to have some sort of baseline. How do you compare cards that are basically unplayed because they banned in popular formats?

[@joshuakaisoelnsa1607]

The-Jaded if you wanna see something like that, go watch Tolarian Community College

[@milesgreb3537]

Counting block formats vs non block is pretty unfairly weighting block cards

[@kalebcartier5474]

Traumatize, Fireball, Overrun.. these cards are literally game winners. Who gives a shit about "Stats" and "Wins" these cards are hands down the best sorceries.

[@NizzahonMagic]

Lawl Traumatize.

[@kalebcartier5474]

Nizzahon Magic In a match with two opponents I managed to cast Traumatize Twice in one turn, the look on their faces alone makes this card a winner, it does as the name says "Traumatize"

[@alexisfiligree9116]

This video came out 3 weeks before Gitaxian Probe was (FINALLY!) banned in Modern. I'd been calling for it to be banned for years...but people kept telling me I was wrong...that it wasn't that powerful. It drove me nuts. For the record, /r/ModernMagic is a toxic place...

[@mikelong2756]

John Jacob Finkelheimer Smith....

[@tripleeyeemoji]

Harsh Scruitiny seems like it could potentially be better than Duress

[@NizzahonMagic]

+Matt T Maybe. But Duress doesn't see a ton of play these days either, in a world of Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize.

[@davidminor4213]

Harsh Scrutiny would be an awesome Pauper card if it ever got a common reprint.

[@ClassicalMMAChef]

No memorable mention for Balance? The most powerful sorcery in Magic...

[@NizzahonMagic]

Balance is definitely not the most powerful Sorcery in Magic. Time Walk is.

[@ClassicalMMAChef]

@@NizzahonMagic 2nd most then??

[@thecusk6918]

It will surely be enter the infinite.

[@Lost1nTheFog]

Lol i wish that was a thing in modern or legacy, sadly its only getting played in commander.

[@the_sorrow2180]

No traumatize?

[@NizzahonMagic]

Nope.

[@joshuabrooks8615]

Serum visions

[@ichweissnichtgenau92]

ANCIENT STIRINGS !

[@salvadormadrigal3164]

Serum vision

[@andreibarabash9701]

Duress FTW!

[@Bottles7]

Drown in sorrow? What?

[@darkmatter32x]

sadly GProbe got banned in modern.

[@mbalazs3544]

was very useful

[@NizzahonMagic]

+M Balazs Glad you enjoyed it!

[@MrBuns-yi2hk]

WTF! I am so tired of KZbins BS. I thought I was subbed, but apparently you need to subscribe three times in order to actually subscribe!

[@NizzahonMagic]

+Archn Scythe Sorry, I've heard such things from others.

[@schrenjaminsstift92]

I thought grapeshot was on number 1

[@leagueofschneider4079]

Tooth and nail

[@alexsduthie23]

Thoughtsieze I'm guessing thoughtsieze

[@gongos9514]

Time Walk..... end of discussion....

[@bwuceli3801]

True but also Timetwister, Balance, Yawgmoth's Will, Wheel of Fortune and the craziest of them all: Contract from Below

[@haydenkiller]

Top 10 joke creatures!

[@nicholask7494]

thoughtseize or cards like it

[@herbertspineckie5194]

wog number 1

[@llama762xd5]

Call me picky, but removal should be instant.....

[@thomash2311]

Jund ftw

[@KabukiKid]

Yawgmoth's Will! At least in Vintage, it is a game winning card. aka Yawgmoth's Win! heh

[@NizzahonMagic]

+KabukiKid Yeah cards like Channel and Fireball could have been honorable mentions too

[@Stretch213]

Love