The Worst Magic: the Gathering Sets of All Time

[@3rdtimesacharm84]

You forgot Magic 30th Anniversary. EASY number 1 worst set ever.

[@beanofknowledge2125]

Honestly even then I'd make a point for Homelands being worse - At least WOTC didn't force players to draft 30th Anniversary cards. But I definitely agree that it should've been on the list, easily taking 2nd place at least

[@dantelarka6112]

I think he considers it a supplementary product

[@joelhaggis5054]

​@beanofknowledge2125 30th Anniversary definitely deserves 1 for the damage it did to WotC's reputation as a brand.

[@3rdtimesacharm84]

@@dantelarka6112 like an UN set?

[@midn8588]

This isn't even a real set, the cards aren't playable

[@sharlockshacolmes9381]

The fact that Wizards lesson they learned from unfinity, was that people didn't want "Un" sets, and Aftermath that people didn't like non-draftable lore oriented mini-set, is crazy. It just shows how even when they learn from their failure they can't understand why they failed

[@sunstrid3r44]

Something something missing the forest for the trees

[@tymandude1510]

The lesson was learned long before Unfinity as the decisions made for that set were done because not enough people were buying Un sets to make them a good use of design resources. People just don't care about about a heavily draft focus set with cards which aren't legal in any format, it's unfortunate but just how it is.

[@whiffleball3939]

Not to mention the issue with third sets. It is wild hearing the story at 18:11 and coming to any conclusion other than "this set needs to be larger"

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Unsets were basically mark rosewater’s passion projects and wotc had been trying to get rid of them and having actual legal cards was the compromise and because it didn’t work no more unsets

[@DimT670]

But that was the lesson from unfinity and aftermath. If lots of ppl wanted more unsets unfinity would have sold better. Ditto for aftermath Now im not saying other factors didn't play a role, and a different implementation might have made these sets more desirable or even change the paradigm But look at a dogshit product like the 900 anniversary thing that sold despite being so shit, just because ppl wanted something like it so much

[@Nopenotyou]

One big reason Prophecy cards don’t really see any play at all today (and what Rhystic was supposed to key into) were the cards that played into leaving lands untapped during/at end of your turn. The removal of mana burn crippled those cards

[@mattm7798]

Ah the mana drain effect lol

[@VulcanHeStan]

I still wanna make Mana Cache work, dangit

[@AkukAkuku]

The whole set was set up around mana denial: sacrificing lands, encouraging tapping out. The Rhystic cards just don't work in an environment where people leave untapped mana for interaction.

[@nihar2009]

Aaaahh citadel of pain ...good times

[@pinobluevogel6458]

This set does have very little to offer, but I've seen recent sets that has worse design and less appeal than Prophecy. Yes, the cards are more powerful, but the flavor is bland, as is the overarching theme of the set.

[@CDShap]

I remember that When I started playing Magic my brother and I asked our father to buy us each a booster box of Revised for Christmas. When he went to the store the clerk said "hey, this new set just came out, you should get them that instead" So the first box I ever opened is #1 on the worst set list. I had mostly stopped playing Magic by the time Ice Age came out. Fast forward to 2013 and a friend of mine says "Hey, you should check out this format called EDH I have been playing, I think you would really enjoy it". Back into the game and itching to crack some packs I bought a box of the latest set. So, the second box I ever opened is #2 on this list.

[@dannyboy1200]

Did the news about the Pinkertons get you curious enough to buy your 3rd set ever 😄

[@CDShap]

@@dannyboy1200 Nah I bought a box of each of the Alara block sets next. I forget what I was chasing, but it led to me building a Rafiq of the many deck.

[@pinobluevogel6458]

Don't feel too bad about it, everyone has their bad purchases. I bought a whole lot of Dragon's Maze for some reason. It is the only set I ever completely owned, including a 4 playset of each common and nearly all uncommons. The main downside of spending money on sets that are bad is that they take up storage space where you want actual good cards to be. Actually buying boosters is really bad for your storage, you should only buy singles if you value your space and it saves you money too.

[@nickfifteen]

My version of this story is that, growing up we didn't have much money, so what little money I got in high school went to getting maybe three or four packs of Tempest and Urza's block. But those sets warped my expectations of set quality... so when I finally got a job and was making enough money to be able to buy entire booser boxes or two or three, that's when I went all in on.... PROPHECY. The upside is that I have like 20 copies of Rhystic Study, so I guess it evened out in the end 😅😅🥲

[@pinobluevogel6458]

@@nickfifteen It sounds a bit sad, but you still probably got a kick out of it at the time and it is not like you lose sleep over it now :)

[@InRealTime769]

The problem with Aftermath and Epilogue boosters had nothing to do with the concept. On paper, a lore based set with a small print run is pretty cool idea. In practice, as with everything Wizards does, it was just a cynical product designed to squeeze more money for less effort. It boggles my mind that I would happily pay for a smaller amount of cards if they were reasonably priced and came with some cool lore, and Wizards is like, "too much effort, here's some $1000 proxies instead"

[@mattm7798]

I think the official justification is yes you get less cards but IIRC the chances of opening a better card was higher.

[@evanreign9344]

Even a cynical product designed to squeeze more money for less could've gotten a better response than than Aftermath if it did THAT well. Instead it told us almost nothing lorewise, and had like one card that actually supported any existing archtypes, while also not really having enough cards to be able to build up any new archtypes on its own. It really was the worst possible first implementation of an idea that was on its own merely mediocre.

[@pinobluevogel6458]

It would have been perfectly fine if they had offered 5 card boosters for a 3rd of the price of a normal one. That is assuming rarities worked in an equally fair way to the normal packs. By far the most people do not like spending more money on 'premium' sets either. For a set like Modern Masters for example, they maybe do one draft with it, generally buy the singles of the cards they really need and skip the rest.

[@fernandobanda5734]

​@@pinobluevogel6458I don't think so. They experimented with 5-card boosters (for a lower price) and nobody wanted them.

[@pinobluevogel6458]

@@fernandobanda5734 I'm aware nobody wanted them, the value of the set was too low for the asking price. Also, the set wasn't good to begin with. The statement I made was that I would be fine with lower number of cards sets if they make it equally reduced prices, but being greedmonster WotC they asked way more for it.

[@AkiVainio]

I disagree with putting Fallen Empires here instead of Homelands. That rule you mentioned for Standard was known as the Homelands rule, because it was so bad. For the time there were actually playable cards in Fallen Empires like the mirrored knights.

[@aliasisudonomo]

Yeah, I feel like Seth is looking too much at 'what would be played today' and by that measure *every* early Magic set is straight trash. For every OMG overpowered card there's "kick yourself in the crotch, sacrifice all your lands: add a +1/+1 counter to this creature". Fallen Empires had *many* playable-at-the-time cards beyond Hymn, and Thallids were a popular enough tribe to both come back in Time Spiral and to make the Saproling a common green token. Homelands had... Serrated Arrows and Merchant Scroll, once the rules changed to make it a more powerful tutor.

[@meshuggahshirt]

Also Aeolipile, which has been barred from ubiquity by the Reserve List

[@SuddenReal]

@@aliasisudonomo Let's not forget Breeding Pit/Bad Moon. Two mana for a 1/2 each turn? And when you popped down your second Bad Moon, a 2/3? Why not?

[@ericaschner3283]

I remember the Fallen Empires release party and it was kind of a feeling of, wait, not every set is good, Wizards can make mistakes too. But a lot of it made some sense, there was so much broken stuff in the earlier sets that was trying to be fixed here and FE at least felt like there was a game. Then with Homelands it was worse, because it wasn't a mistake that it was bad power wise, they'd already seen that. But it wasn't even playable within itself. You can't take a box of HL boosters and make two cohesive decks and play each other. There was seemingly no play testing at all and they just didn't care. FE I learned design is hard and mistakes can be made. HL I learned that Wizards is just a corporation and is perfectly willing to sell you trash products as long as you keep buying them.

[@NightEyes042]

Wasn't there also a big paper or packaging quality issue with Homelands? I remember some set from that time having all the cards cupped with really bad print quality from cheaper paper and thinner booster wrapping

[@shiranui498]

Can't wait for the 200th set in 5 years time!

[@kscius]

give them 1 yerar xD

[@pinobluevogel6458]

This wont take them 5 years.

[@zachariahpoltergeist4516]

At this rate, we'll have supplemental sets to Secret Lairs in six months.

[@hitmonkey2984]

Give it 6 months.

[@Atmapalazzo]

Another fun thing about prophecy is it's other mechanic (untapped land punishment) was completely dismantled with the loss of mana burn

[@barrywade3774]

The primary reason people think Fallen Empires was poor is because it was massively over printed and was everywhere and dirt cheap. It had great flavour, tournament staple cards and was a unique and fun set to draft.

[@mattm7798]

It did have a really cool story but saying it had tournament staples is not a criteria of a good set: it's the amount of tournament staples and FE had VERY few.

[@barrywade3774]

@@mattm7798 More than other sets of its era like the Dark or Homelands. Probably just as many as Legends on an average basis based on set sizes. (Percentage wise.).

[@MTGGoldfish]

It didn't really have that many staples, but I would agree it's better than Homelands in that category. Homelands had literally zero tournament staples I believe.

[@mattm7798]

@@MTGGoldfish Checked the list only one I could see would be merchant scroll and memory lapse?

[@barrywade3774]

@@mattm7798 Serrated Arrows was used sometimes to deal with pump knights. (Order of Lietbur, Order of the Ebon Hand, Knight of Stromglad and … Order of the white shield was it?)

[@jrjamesson]

I don't think Fallen Empires should be #1. Just because it was overordered/printed shouldn't mean it's the worst. It gave us some incredibly powerful and influential cards, like hymn (best discard), high tide, goblin grenade. Even things like Orgg or the sac-lands were influential designs. And it gave us saprolings, one of the most enduring creature token types of all time. Meanwhile homelands doesn't even make the list?

[@jonathanarlt9578]

Yeah it's a crazy decision to not include the obvious worst set of all time. I understand bringing things like failed expectations into account, but homelands looked terrible and felt terrible to play

[@KabobHope]

You make a strong case. I think as the first major misstep for WOTC it's ok. Fallen Empires boxes were on the shelves forever.

[@pinobluevogel6458]

The only reason it was on the shelves forever wasn't because people didn't like it, or didn't buy it. They simply had all the cards they wanted, so there was no reason to buy any more packs. The set was printed for way more people than actually played magic at the time. While it was not a highmark by any means, it surely was not as bad as people make it seem I have fond memories of playing the Thrull deck at the time. All you saw was Thrulls, Saprolings and Goblin decks running rampant on the casual tables. The Thrull deck featured the iconic Thrull Champion to boost all your Thrulls and steal your opponents, some of the sac thrulls to get various effects, soul exchange to get your creatures back, breeding pit to get some sac fodder and the dreaded Ebon Praetor as a finisher that slowly grew stronger.

[@antischtick3502]

It almost killed magic before the 2000's. When a set is so bad that it would kill the whole game, it deserves no.1

[@pinobluevogel6458]

@@antischtick3502 Well, that is my issue with this. The set itself wasn't as bad as multiple other sets, the issues were with massive overprinting and being surrounded by questionable and weak other sets. The Dark was a very small, but not a very outstanding set. Homelands was far worse than Fallen Empires itself. Chronicles was pissing a ton of people off (and was also massively overprinted) and 4th edition was like Revised, but minus a ton of all the cards people wanted and needed. The whole period killed magic, not just Fallen Empires alone. The fact that it was on the shelves for so long made it the scapegoat, while it was all these sets combined, over a very long 2 year period of drought that nearly killed magic. Having lived through this time, I can say at least early, the set was reasonably well recieved at the gaming stores I've frequented. It took a good amount of time for people to realise the cards weren't worth much and starting to devalue the set as a whole. Like Chronicles, the set was blamed for the fact that all the cards that people really wanted from the first magic sets that sold out extremely quickly, were quite out of reach for most people. You could say, not having good reprint sets in reasonable volume was the main culprit of magic almost dieing an early death. It took years for them to recover from this dark period and it pretty much killed the hype the game had in the early period.

[@AkukAkuku]

Saviours of Kamigawa had another common theme with Prophecy: mechanics that encourage unfun play patterns. Prophecy wants you to not have mana, Soak wants you to not play spells, so you have a full grip. Both wanted you to keep lands in hand instead of playing them.

[@jorritdriessen5728]

23:40 And thus Mesa Falcon guy was born

[@Jaytracker]

Dw, he bought a boosted box after and got 0 serrated arrows to replace the mesa falcons

[@MTGGoldfish]

lol, @covertgoblue

[@natendragon7172]

As a heavy casual MTG player, Unfinity had some really fun shenanigans and hearing for the first time that it's likely the cause of no future un-sets hurts the soul.

[@mistertadakichi]

I loved the theme, but the stickers and the legality confusion killed most of my interest in dealing with the set

[@natendragon7172]

@mistertadakichi I admit I didn't interact with stickers, but I agree - the theme was really fun and attractions were a cool mechanic

[@ecoKady]

As long as Mark Rosewater works for WotC, there will be a chance they come back. I think WotC will give him a 'sendoff set' when he officially retires from full-time work (probably 8-10 years).

[@MTGGoldfish]

I like unsets, they just need to keep them not tournament legal.

[@lelandbatey]

Same; unstable was the most fun I've ever had playing MTG and I'm sad unfinity was such a wet thud with its confusing approach.

[@kokonots7311]

Fallen Empires had flawed execution but the design was ahead of its time, it pioneered many concepts that are staples of Magic sets today: 1. First set to be built around color-based factions. 2. First tribal set 3. First set that made heavy use of tokens and counters 4. Alternate arts (EDIT: Antiquities was first, so I guess FE had the first nonland alt arts?)

[@jamespatterson5644]

Antiquities pioneered the alternate arts. The 4 arts of Urza lands and 4 season Mishra's factory. even the 4 strip mines. this was HUGELY popular and was what Magic was trying to imitate in Empires.

[@chazzanschutz6096]

Even more fun when you draft it with 3 Dark 3 FE packs. (Remember when we could do that for under $20 per player).

[@Pug8]

Yeah it's very very different from homelands.

[@jonathanarlt9578]

Yeah fully agree. I have some nostalgia for this set, but playing through homelands was a complete nightmare

[@kokonots7311]

@@jamespatterson5644 ah of course you're right, I had forgotten that Antiquities was first!

[@stonerainproductions]

No Homelands? I remember buying a box and being so incredibly disappointed. Autumn Willow was the biggest card from the set...it was so terrible.

[@lain2k3]

Only because no one knew how good memory lapse was to be fair

[@00110000]

Did you watch the video? Homelands basically shares the #1 spot

[@pinobluevogel6458]

@@lain2k3 Nobody at the time respected memory lapse. It was seen as vastly inferior to counterspell, or mana drain for the people that were fortunate enough to own those.

[@erlanddrow7950]

I feel bad for Fallen Empires. I remember going through my dad's old cards and thinking how cool it was that some of the cards had multiple different art works

[@nathanwalters6682]

When I got my first cards, the current sets were 4th Edition, Ice Age, and Homelands and it was FOREVER before Alliances came out. That meant that while my best friend and I were learning the game we had a VERY limited selection, except that the LGS had a bunch of Fallen Empires cards. Let me just tell you, we went out and got Fallen Empires WAY more than we got Homelands because it was so much better on every axis. Thallids and Thrulls may not be heavily-supported creature types but they were fun, and there were actually enough cards to throw together an interesting Goblin or Merfolk deck. Homelands cards, on the other hand, were just sad.

[@pinobluevogel6458]

You are correct. Homelands barely offered cards to play with, or build decks with. There was a decent amount of theme in it, but that was similar for Fallen Empires. At least FE offered a few relatively strong tribal themes that were really fun for casual play. Not to mention that everyone played pump knights and hymn to tourach in tournaments.

[@bobboberson8297]

I was really surprised to hear BFZ on this list considering how hyped up it was prior to its release. Also at the time simply getting full art lands and even the expedition lands if you were lucky were very popular and lead to future sets having those too. Feels like that should have been mentioned

[@Joebob31100]

Please keep making more videos like this and your other lists Seth. Love listening to you talk about Magic on my way home from work

[@Vinegarhusband]

I bought a ton of booster packs of Fallen Empires from a mom and pop video rental store when I was a kid. I loved the story and the alternate arts. Thallids, thrulls, and homarids are still my favorite creatures of all time.

[@spoopyboi1882]

I really liked BFZ. It may not have lived up to original zendikar, but as a thematic set i really enjoyed it. The focus on eldrazi showed they were such a menace that it was super hard to get rid of them

[@hunterlee4412]

My deck i played came from that time in green black aristocrats.

[@rotten2209]

I was given a fallen empires booster box in 94. I was sooo excited about it but was quickly let down. I still have the entire set.

[@alainbelanger9852]

I bought Fallen Empires booster packs for 1$ at the local Dollar Store, circa 1995 or 1996. My ten year old self thought it was pretty cool.

[@OnlyRoke]

I'm surprised that Innistrad Double Feature didn't make the cut. Just re-releasing two previous sets that had no real cohesion between each other, aside from vibes, and then removing all colour to make it black and white was just an insane idea. Especially since the packs were twice the price of either booster and had half the cards 😂

[@AwolGG]

I still giggle thinking about playing ages ago with unhinged cards with friends and "Tapping that ass" with "City of Ass" lol.

[@bartoffer]

Many sets, like BFZ, can be viewed as unfortunate misfires. Unfinity felt like an unintentional execution, with the one holding the smoking gun having been too distracted by arguing that companions are totally a good and healthy idea. It feels more like a set whereby no-one was allowed to challenge unfun, unintuitive, and uninteresting design choices at any point, which was shoehorned into black-border at one person's insistence. Compared to Unstable, which remains a total blast to draft and cube, it's total night and day.

[@mattm7798]

IMO Unfinity was Hasbro saying we need this set to sell more so make some of the cards tournament legal...the sticker mechanic is a cool idea for digital but horrendous for paper.

[@jacobwiren8142]

I disagree completely with BFZ. Nothing about it was a "misfire". The Un sets have always struggled to be profitable, that's why they tried something different each time. Every Un set, by definition, has been a shot in the dark and/or a misfire. Original Zendikar was profitable and popular. All they had to do was redo its mechanical themes, maybe try to balance the annihilator mechanic (which is not hard and has only gotten easier with the introduction of treasure/clue/food/blood/map tokens), maybe even reprint some of the popular commons from the original Zendikar. Instead they tried to "fix" things that weren't broken. People complained about allies, so they "fixed" them by making them trash. People complained about annihilator, so they "fixed" it by replacing it with something even worse. People complained about Eldrazi being too expensive, so they "fixed" them by making them cheaper, more generic, and less interesting. They had a roadmap for success and they deliberately ignored EVERYTHING ON IT. If Unfinity is a misfire, then BFZ is the equivalent of loading the gun, standing next to the target, aiming at it, and then deliberately pointing down and shooting yourself in the foot. It was awful in every way, even more so because it didn't need to happen and had no reason to. Compare the original Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre with Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. The first one is a terrifying threat that you must block that slowly grinds all your resources to dust, forcing you to generate them faster, which turns the game into a tense race. The second one is cheaper, has a more powerful cast trigger, and exiles your library. It is generically more powerful and has less counter-play for no reason which means the game is basically over if it gets an attack in. Also, Ceaseless Hunger can be reanimated and cheated into play early...

[@pinobluevogel6458]

@@jacobwiren8142 I really like your points about BFZ and they hit the mark extremely well. I was among the people that was truly excited to get more allies for my ally homebrews, but the set didn't deliver at all. It basically didn't even feel like Zendikar anymore. The same thing happened with the Innistrad sets, which was also a much loved design before they revisited them. Not only did they Eldrazify another world and many of the cards that would otherwise have added to the earlier set, the set simply didn't fit with the world they created that people loved so much in the first place, nor were the mechanics and play patterns as fun. Both these examples have the exact same issues that I find with modern, more recent sets; There are some cool individual designs, but the worldbuilding, cohesion, elegance of the mechanics and smoothness of play has declined to a point where I basically can't be bothered.

[@jacobwiren8142]

@@pinobluevogel6458 Original Zendikar was my favorite block and landfall to this day is my favorite mechanic. For the first time in the game's history, land pockets became a good thing. We had R/W aggro decks with 24 lands, U control decks with 28 lands, and mono green decks with 32 lands. The one card that is simultaneously the most important and most boring was now the most interesting and fun. It was revolutionary... Then they never reprinted any of those commons or uncommons again and never recaptured the magic. It was the same with allies and Eldrazi too. Damn shame...

[@pinobluevogel6458]

@@jacobwiren8142 I feel you man. Original Zendikar was one of the high points for me too, even though the sets tapered off quite steeply in the block. It was great for drafting, had a fun and relatively healthy constructed format and the casual decks at the time were just chef's kiss for me. I think you are spot on with the landfall mechanic, which is just about the only thing they managed to hit a few good notes on with the BFZ block. Like many dedicated magic players (or former dedicated magic players) I could talk for hours about my favorite sets, favorite formats and favorite decks, so I really understand the enthousiasm you rightly displayed. Thanks for making these posts, it takes me back to a great time.

[@rorymeehan7492]

Fallen Empires has a place in my heart but also ticks me off b/c my 8th grade music teacher took advantage of her students and sold booster packs to us for $4 in school.. years later I learned how badly we were all ripped off

[@theonlyenicfanever5346]

Unfinity was such a fun set with really solid silver border mechanics, marred by just a small handful of terrible decisions. So sad.

[@snakeman830]

Agreed. Stickers should have never been tournament legal.

[@pudgimelon]

I think EDH really changed the value of the whole Kamigawa block. There are so many iconic and fun EDH cards from Kamigawa block, even Saviors.

[@theputnamto3468]

"epilogues are a good way to lazily sell a third of the product at the same price" FTFY

[@leemay7780]

when Fallen Empires came out I was way into Magic. Friend and I went to the mall, bought some packs, opened them in the food court, and never played Magic again for the rest of our childhood.

[@moedark4390]

right there with you, homelands and fallen empires came out at the time when no one knew what was gonna be in the set. so i bought some, nothing good...bought some more, still nothing, then stopped playing for over 20 years lol

[@floalternity3997]

@@moedark4390exactly same here

[@jasonmohn1472]

Homelands was WAY worse than Fallen Empires. Fallen Empires at least had some staples for its time. Breeding Pit was essential for Lord of the Pit. Goblins got some good cards with Goblin Drums, Goblin churgeon, and Goblin grenades. Even the storage lands had use at the time. I'm not saying it was a good set, even the. But it at least had some utility. Homelands had nothing really outside Sengir.

[@Hologhost69]

This is my exact argument when people say it was not that bad, the set made people quit Magic. Yeah, I agree Homelands was terrible and definitely worse, but if you made it through Fallen Empires, you basically just accepted Homelands....Fallen Empires had people quitting Magic, Homelands just reinforced their choice.

[@moedark4390]

@@Hologhost69 well said

[@carlosmgh3]

I stopped playing (spending money) about 10 years ago and yet this channel recently appeared in my feed and I'm loving it. Congratulations.

[@ericjackman1143]

I never understood wizards history of “this set was really pushed, let’s way underpower the next set to balance it out and prevent power creep.” It never works. Just make a normal powered set with a dozen or so good and interesting cards. In comparison to the powerful set, it’ll still be underpowered but when the old one rotates you’re not left with a steaming pile of doodoo

[@donparsons5268]

Essentially its less 'lets underpower' so much I think as they get gunshy and very careful about powerlevel as the developers are worried about messing up so all the dials are tuned to 4 instead of 6.

[@magnusprime962]

Overcorrecting a problem is basically standard procedure for WOTC.

[@Hienox]

Seeing Battle for Zendikar in here is shocking to me. It was the set that introduced me to MTG and it still holds a special place in my heart to this day.

[@beefwich]

I started playing Magic in May 1994. I was in 5th grade. The first pack of cards I ever opened was Antiquities. The rare was Colossus of Sardia. The first booster box I ever opened was Revised. I remember being bummed out because my box was full of dual lands. I didn’t want stupid lands! I wanted Force of Nature or Shivan Dragon! The LGS I went to had a Beta booster box on sale for $200. I told my mom that’s what I wanted for Christmas that year (1994). Christmas Day rolls around and there are TWO wrapped boxes under the tree. I was beside myself with glee! It was two boxes of Fallen Empires. “The man at your little store said these had just come out and I figured you like them more!” I still jokingly pester her about that decision to this day.

[@CanadianPianoMan]

Great video! A couple things I wanted to mention though. 9:37 to be fair, Ulamog also saw plan in standard in Aetherworks Marvel decks and in modern in Tron decks 11:44 I wasn't around to play it but I've heard that the wisdom mechanic also made limited really unfun and swingy because Deathmask Nezumi and cards like it would encourage you to do things like intentionally miss land drops and just not play the game because a 4/3 fear for 3 is so many miles better than a 2/2

[@Bot101101]

Homelands was way worse than Fallen Empires. High Tide, Goblin Grenade, Hymn to Tourach, Goblin War Drums were all decent FE-cards.

[@asherhinrichs9566]

I loved playing Fallen Empires as a kid! my brother & I built 10 decks one for each faction & played them again & again. To each their own I suppose.

[@pentatronic]

That sounds like so much fun

[@NKMitch42]

Honestly, I think think that old pro tour rule of needing to use some cards from every standard legal set is really interesting. If part of the purpose of a PT is to promote the game you need to make sure as many cards as possible are being played.

[@SomeOfTheJuice]

It's so crazy to me just how extremely Voice of Resurgence has plummeted in price. I remember when it came out and it was a solid $40 card. Knowing it's $3.50 now just hurts my heart, and knowing that that's expensive for a Dragon's Maze card makes me sad. RTR block was the block that got me into Magic, but it definitely feels like that first set of the block really was its high point and then was a pretty far fall down to Gatecrash before cratering at Dragon's Maze.

[@soldancer]

Definitely agree about the Voice. It was hot stuff during RTR standard, but now it's like, just sort of ok? I guess? I get the same feeling with Cranial Extraction from Champions of Kamigawa. It was like $25 on release and now it's like fifty cents.

[@NeoN-PeoN]

I remember when Homelands came out, a lot of people thought that MTG was dead. People genuinely believed they ran out of ideas and the game was on the out.

[@Orionstar528]

I started playing as a kid during Mirrodin, and I remember back then I bought a fallen empires booster once. The cards were so ugly and bad that I thought they were fake and I threw them away. I just discovered now they were official! Definitely worst set ever!

[@GH-un9uz]

Its so good to see they learned their lesson from mirrodin and urza block. Now when they release busted sets that result in bans, they don't change a thing and keep going like nothing happened

[@jacktupp4358]

Fun fact: I just ordered a Conch Horn for my Runo deck because I saw it on this video. It even fits the sea creature theme.

[@TheGregoryodd]

Too funny hearing Rosewater toss Jockusch under the bus , given some of Rosewater’s missteps in the last 4-5 years

[@RBGolbat]

Which missteps of the last 4-5 years were Rosewater specifically??

[@TheGregoryodd]

@@RBGolbat companion comes to mind

[@mattm7798]

LOL Energy immediately comes to mind: "What if we creature a completely knew resource, have it only be available in 2 sets(thus making it very parasitic)....and have 0 good answers to it or barely any ways to interact with it!!!! Sound good?" Development should have playtested it and realised "Um...this is really good and there is no way to interact with this...someone make a few hoser cards for the following sets!"

[@hammernnaila7031]

@@RBGolbat War of the Spark, and if you're willing to go back to Battle for Zendikar he was the lead designer for that set. Maro is just bad at designing sets.

[@RBGolbat]

I’ll give y’all companions, but most of the other issues are related to Play Design and balancing, and not what MaRo does.

[@stormycat0905]

Fallen Empires was a sweet set at the time. Cards like Hymn to Torach, High Tide, and Goblin Grenade continue to be powerful and highly played cards today.

[@herbertwiley]

I vividly remember playing MtG in 1994, back when people would buy a starter pack or two, shuffle them together, sit down, and start playing. The modern ideas of deck construction were still years away and so every game was essentially "kitchen table"....although I was known to t1 Swamp > Mox Jet > Sol Ring t2 Swamp > Dark Ritual > Mind Twist --> you discard 6 cards...but only at random. Sometimes, I wish people would forget the last 30 years of deck construction knowledge and go back to "buy some cards, put them together, and play". Fun times. Anyway...at the time the storage lands like Bottomless Vault were fascinating if overvalued--play one on turn 1 then just bank your mana until you cash it in later? Cool! Yes, cool....but only in kitchen table because the mechanic of proliferate was a long way away. I do have to admit that even at that time Ice Age was great, but FE was pretty bad.

[@pinobluevogel6458]

That sequence of play where you mindtwist your opponent on turn 2 for 6 cards doesn't sound like a very interactive experience.

[@herbertwiley]

@@pinobluevogel6458 It was 1994 and 1995--we didn't think about things like that back then. It was all just pure fun.

[@pinobluevogel6458]

@@herbertwiley It was one of the first things I noticed while playing discard, or land destruction, or stasis, or even a deck loaded with counterspells or burn spells, this rubs people the wrong way. There is nothing wrong with this style of play for a lot of the early magic players, we are used to it and can take a hit. But as soon as the hobby grew and got more and more 'sensitive' people involved, it slowly got removed from the game. The rubber tiles under the playground sorta thing. I think it's fun, but playing the game now, I care a little bit if my opponent is enjoying the game as well :)

[@schmian95]

I think a rollarcoaster effect in how sets are released would be good. Single set-> 2 set block-> full block, than back down would give a good mix of being on a plane long enough to tell a story, and short hops to cool new worlds to try new things

[@jboveda]

Seth is low key a great video essayist and this is one of his best. I know Sam (Rhysticstudies) is god-tier in this space but Seth brings the heat with videos like this. Love it, keep it coming plz!

[@AWESMATHEGREAT]

Seth's definitely walked into some obvious rakes with Mind Goblin

[@maxxlanglois]

Me feeling bad for having waaaay too many dragon's maze cards in my collection

[@UniGya]

I love devoid. Yeah, it's mostly just flavor text or exists to keep eldrazi colorless synergies functional I think it's really cool flavor text. It's why I'm so excited for MH3 and M3C

[@AirbornChaos]

Don't forget. In 1994 and 1995, MTG was available in two sealed products. Starter Decks of (IIRC) 45 random cards +15 random basic lands (why the minimum standard deck size is 60 cards) for ~$8.00; and Booster Packs of 15 cards and (1 basic, or no lands) for ~$3.50. Starters were, by far the most economical way to buy cards, even if you got a ton of basic lands you didn't need. But I've never seen a Starter Deck for Fallen Empires, and the Boosters were only 8 cards for the same $3.50.

[@jonathanarlt9578]

As someone that played through both, I would challenge you to open five packs of both Fallen Empires and Homelands. I'll venmo you $12 to cover the cost! See which feels worse, guarantee it's Homelands. I'm pretty worked up about Homelands not even being on the list, like personally offended. It's possible I didn't get enough sleep. I'm going to go take a nap. But for real, try it! Homelands nearly killed the game, but Alliances was a huge hit.

[@Ganjau]

Battle for Zendikar was THE set that really got me into magic. I started playing when Aether Revolt was released but BfZ,OotG and EM became my favorite sets to obsess over as thematically Eldrazi fit a lot of stuff that I like. I had no idea it was so unliked

[@edsainmuramasa4751]

God damn it, I completely missed that -mind- goblin was a reference to "mind goblin". I knew the meme, I knew the joke, but I was so focused on trying to figure out the card and why mind made it special that I completely missed it.

[@darklord161]

There is still a sealed fallen empires booster at my local gamestore for like 20 bucks and nobody wants it

[@mattm7798]

Haha, why would they. What they get a Hymn which is dirt cheap lol.

[@drmajalis1583]

NGL I would buy that just to show off to house guests "Look, this is a booster box of the WORST MTG SET ever, it only cost me $20!" It would be a great conversation starter

[@Welverin]

The store I go to has some, the owner actively talks people out of buying them. I wanted one to have one (unopened), I had to convince him to let me buy it.

[@chazzanschutz6096]

If you want just one pack, look for the comic book that came with the free pack. (FE #1). (Funny story, when the local LGS went out of business back in 2000, I ended up buying all those comics for 10 cents each, ended up building a few set out of them. (Bought like 300ish (all they had)of them)).

[@adammorin2955]

I’ve seen some lgs have ice age drafts lmao

[@Brian-qn7fn]

Fallen Empires is not the worst set in MTG history, not even close.

[@akjhdkjahskjdlf]

Back in the day, a magazine had a section where people could write in with combos and stuff. The one that I still remember to this day is any Fallen Empire card and a trash can.😆

[@adamminniear3984]

InQuest. Classic stuff.

[@docpox3900]

BFZ has a soft spot in my heart because it was the only prerelease I legit swept. I can't remember the exact list, but it was "UG stay alive until you cast Void Winnower"

[@ChinmanPlayCOD]

Classic WOTC learning the wrong lessons from Unfinity. People like/tolerate silver border sets as long as you don’t make it a confusing mess, where your infamy of misprints makes a confusing guessing game even worse. Attractions should have stayed silver border, as should have stickers, maybe they would be reusable 1-2 times, but not for a whole legacy tournament

[@theonlyenicfanever5346]

The whole set should have been silver border, and people would be happy. I still pack silver border cards for casual formats whenever I’m missing the right card. Whole lot funnier than proxying!

[@sharlockshacolmes9381]

Yhea it's crazy, unhinged is my favorite set, I wish some of the cards in it where legal in commander

[@3rdtimesacharm84]

Or if they are $250 a pack. People don't like that either.

[@tymandude1510]

@@theonlyenicfanever5346 No one would have bought it. Unfinity was designed as a last ditch effort to make Un sets worth making. People just don't care about heavily draft focused sets with cards which aren't illegal in any format which is unfortunate but it's just how it is.

[@Welverin]

@@sharlockshacolmes9381 Not legal in Commander is exactly why they did what they did. Unsets are meant for casual play, but people won't even use them for casual play and they're straight up illegal in the biggest casual format. Why they did it makes sense, they just failed miserably to do it in a fashion that would be accepted by players.

[@matthewliddell6638]

A Fallen Empires booster box was my Christmas present in 1995.

[@soldancer]

You have my sympathy. I won a box in a tournament, and that was bad enough.

[@Dizzula]

I was a player way back in the day. Started playing just before The Dark, so I'd inherited a lot of my brothers old 1st ed cards. I can confirm that Fallen Empires was the beginning of the end, and after completing my Ice Age collection I pretty much stopped playing. Seeing this and the cards inside was crazy to me!

[@kritikverloren1814]

Mercadian Masques was dominated by counter rebel decks. The add mana costs could a) slow down the rebells to grow quickly and b) gave non-blue decks the options to "counter" or avoid larger attacks.

[@NeoN-PeoN]

I will still never understand why tf Elvish Farmer made the Reserve List.

[@AccessAccess]

Where I lived Fallen was 5 packs for $4.00 and then it dropped even farther. By the end it was around 50 cents per pack. The real problem was the duplicated cards (3 or 4 of each card, just with different art) meaning you could get the whole set in maybe half a box. So players didn't have to buy much to get the cards they wanted. The cards did have some great art like Elvish Ranger but this was really all there was to like about this set.

[@ninjanoodle2674]

1. Fallen Empires 2. Homelands 3. The Dark 4. Prophecy 5. Legends 6. Legions As bad as we might think that some of the more modern sets might be, these sets just had so many objectively bad cards in them that in each case these sets had little to no impact on the competitive scene when they were released. Magic set design was truly in a dark age post Antiquities until the release of Ice Age, and Homelands killed the momentum and Alliances had to save Magic

[@pinobluevogel6458]

Legends is a set loved by many, as is the Dark, at least at the time. Even Fallen Empires, while grossly overprinted, wasn't as bad as is mentioned here. It had pump knights, hymn to tourach, goblin grenade, high tide and a whole bunch of more casual cards like the Saprolings, the Thrulls, a ton of goblin cards, Orgg, Ication Town (first ever token card that created multiple tokens), Hand of Justice and the casual favorite Breeding Pit.

[@ninjanoodle2674]

@@pinobluevogel6458 As someone who was playing when most of those sets came out, I can tell you that The Dark and Fallen Empires were both NOT very well liked at all even when they were new. While I agree that all of the sets I listed have some good cards in them (especially Legends), the overwhelming number of unplayable to almost unplayable cards really had players scratching their heads when they were printed. Now that we can look back at them with a more discerning eye, we can see just how bad those sets were.

[@pinobluevogel6458]

@@ninjanoodle2674 Well it wasn't as liked as some of the earlier stuff, that is true. Like you, I played through this time and started playing slightly before the Dark came out. I was extremely young, knew absolutely nothing about the game, but I did enjoy all the early sets quite a bit, as did my very large playgroup at my LGS. (which wasn't even called an LGS back then, but was an early boardgame store) Everyone had oodles of fallen empires cards and chronicles cards, as they eventually were around a dollar per pack, which was affordable, even for young kids. It was a pretty dark time for magic though, which altered the vision of Fallen Empires quite a bit. With Legends and Revised already on the shelves in 1994, it took them almost 2 years before they finally released another reasonably designed set in Alliances, with Mirage in the same year really picking the game up. Because Fallen Empires was on the shelves for all of this barren period where barely anything good came out, the vision on how good or bad this set was got greatly skewed, as it stood for everything that was wrong with Magic at the time. This probably was the period where Magic was as close to dying as it has ever been, going from an extremely hyped, superpopular game, to an almost niche thing that people barely played anymore. My LGS groups more or less fell apart and moved into other cardgames for a while. It was the first time I quit magic, having close to 2 years of almost no playing.

[@lewst]

Will you make a best sets video as well?

[@MTGGoldfish]

I was thinking about it, should i?

[@jond2697]

@@MTGGoldfish I'd watch it!

[@1997Awesomedude]

14:30 Coppercoat Vanguard also sees some play in Humans decks

[@LawryBoyer]

I’ll never forget my parents surprising me with a dragons maze booster box for my birthday. I appreciated it but it was basically a giant pile of bulk and two shocklands

[@soldancer]

It says something about how interesting this video is that I was able to listen to this voice for 24 minutes.

[@DukeLetoIII]

Holy shit, you're telling me. I keep wondering, "Is this how he speaks in normal everyday life, or is it his 'video voice'"?

[@Chavorrucosbarandgrill]

I started playing in early 2000, so I have a ton of cards from the Prophecy block :( To think that if I had started a bit earlier those would have been Urza's block cards.

[@thetuerk]

16:22 1am in the morning, eating some cake and watching this scene right here. When he said "WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN PLANNING TO DO" I had to stop everything and went DAMN. This man... i cannot even say where to start to feel with him. That must've been a gutpunch to the team.

[@ShaqPlaque]

As a limited player, I actually really like Dragon's Maze.. in Sealed. Drafting it has some issues but is still okay I guess. Battle for Zendikar was also "meh" but not bad to me. It got better with Oath of the Gatewatch because the colorless mana mechanic was interesting. I remember drafting a Twilight Mire as an Expedition and having it function as a tri-land in my draft deck. The fact I still remember this at all tells me this was kinda cool.

[@samogburn2662]

Colorless mana was such a cool mechanic, but its baffling that they didn't just introduce it in BFZ. I remember being so confused when I opened packs of both sets and saw that the eldrazi spawn tokens had different text

[@kingfuzzy2]

really happy after this video that i made a 10 set unplayable cube a year ago

[@greenapple9477]

Really wish I was way more into MTG and way more proficient in playing it, so I can really understand the hatred behind some of these sets, and actually contribute to the conversation. I only managed to conceptualize only one deck, and that was just based around heal triggers and counters. (If you're asking why I"m here, I'm here for these video essays and Phil's/Brewer's Kitchen's content.)

[@theonlyenicfanever5346]

Only way to learn is to play! Sounds like a solid starter deck.

[@davidpepin3017]

I bought an absurd amount of fallen empire back in the days. It was before the Internet and the reason I bought so much is that I was sure that at some point I would get the big super power card, that seemed to be ultra-rare, so rare in fact that it did not exist... Same for Ice Age, I tried to get the 3rd Jester piece,...

[@madjoe8622]

I did the same with FE, keep buying and buying until I get something good. After been tired to get crap, I finally looked for that set on Internet (it was available at my university)... I was like oh, I should have buy revised.

[@sophiepedigree7139]

I remember Fallen Empires and Homelands booster boxes sitting on a lot of LGSs' shelves when I started playing the game in 97/98, all but untouched. Of course, as a naive kid who didn't know any better, I got tricked in buying some a couple of times. They were cheaper, after all, and I had no idea what was good and what wasn't.

[@andygoody2599]

1. ABOLISH the Reserved list 2. Bam all UN-sets and force them siover border until reprinted 3. 3 set blocks drag out a good idea too thin.

[@spudnik3466]

Ikoria for me, hated the companion mechanics.

[@charlesweinert4116]

I got into the game as a teenager during Fallen Empires. If it hadn’t been so readily available I would never have been able to afford starting the game.

[@AutkastKain]

Glad to see some Homelands lore, Mesa Falcon needs to be mentioned more

[@thevaultwalrus]

Fallen Empires was great Thallids and Hymns

[@XenithShadow]

The big score would have been the worst set potentially considering its only mythics, as it would have be exorbidently dificult to obtain those cards on arena. Or maybe that would havve actually made them obtainable where the bigscore booster would just give 8 bigscore cards per pack.

[@theonedraven8007]

thank you for not throwing shade at double feature

[@dragonmark101]

The booster box I bought when I was in high school was mercadian masques and I love it no matter once. I still play Rebels whenever I get the chance

[@vulture27fm]

Fallen Empires was the new set when I started playing Magic. I remember buying a ton of boosters because they were the cheapest ones at the card shop. Nine year old me couldn't process that the were cheap because literally nothing in those packs was worth having.

[@TheRusty]

90% of my FE boosters came from stealing them out of the bagged Fallen Empires comic books at the grocery store, lol. Would walk out of there with pockets full of boosters. Nowadays the comic's secondary value is like, twice that of a complete set of the expansion. Which still isn't a lot, but still funny

[@aelinstue9431]

Magic making games like consoles, "we were going to release a $40 DLC with about 3 hours of gameplay after the full game launched but players really hated the last time we did it so we just released the game with all the finished content unlocked for free"

[@pinobluevogel6458]

It is more or less WotC, instead of making a $40 DLC people didn't like, making several optional DLC packages, all with custom skins and non-existing gameplay, for $100 each.

[@Isthatchicken01]

I hope you make another video similar to this but the BEST sets

[@DerekLippold]

Most of the time even sets that we call bad give you something fun, interesting, or useful. Most of the time.

[@jamesrule1338]

Sure Fallen Empires was garbage. But I personally think Homelands was worse. At least FE gave us Thrulls and Thalids. Ok, and Homarids. I did say it was garbage.

[@CommanderGinyu]

Who cares about Thalids? they suck… homelands gave us merchant scroll while fallen empires gave us high tide and hymn to tourach so fallen empires is marginally better

[@jamesrule1338]

@@CommanderGinyu thalids gave us saprolings. And saprolings are awesome.

[@meshuggahshirt]

More seriously, Fallen Empires doesn't deserve this kind of hate because it tried to explore new design space and partly succeeded; it was the first time tokens became an actual strategic option rather than an isolated mechanic on janky rares, and basically codified +1/+1 counters so future sets would be simpler. What did anyone learn from Homelands?

[@adammorin2955]

@@meshuggahshirt the jar that destroys all homelands card is the worst card in magic

[@meshuggahshirt]

@@adammorin2955 the only Homelands cards that see play are nonpermanents

[@odoacredacalcutta5085]

I wasn't playing when most of these sets came out, but I was during BFZ and tbh it was quite fun to draft. I remember very good color fixing and therefore quite creative and flexible builds.

[@LlywellynOBrien]

Weird note, but I think 'Epic' could be amazing design space if it worked like cumulative upkeep. I.e. turn one you put in one 1/1 per card in hand, turn two you put in two etc.

[@RunsWithKniefs]

I remember dragon's maze being so awful that once the spoilers came out, the pre-order prices tanked.

[@Veiwer77]

Hey now, I loved Unfinity! The art direction was beautiful, those basics and shock lands are some of my favorites, and I built a sticker commander deck and I think it's fun!(I use infinitokens to move the stickers around) It definitely needed to be cooked a bit longer. It would have been better to be all tournament legal and designed that way. Or just stay silver bordered.

[@A.I.Friends]

Saviors has a great card: Erayo. It would be fantastic in commander, except it is banned in commander. Prophecy has Spore Frog. It is a 'fog spell' that is visible to all players. It is psychological, because people realize you can just fog, so they avoid you in some turns. Dragon's Maze: Render Silent, it is a counterspell and prevents casting that round. I remember Fallen Empires at $20 a box. Still not worth it today, but yes High Tide is used be me a lot.

[@mistertadakichi]

The comment about “more story-driven content in a format that doesn’t need to be draftable” regarding Aftermath sets is insane, considering that most of aftermath isn’t story-related, and only two of the Big Score cards feel even remotely related to the main set story- the rest are all just Vault goodies. Maybe if they had ever actually followed through on this idea and made a mini-set where story was the rule rather than the exception, this would make sense

[@PhilippeSaner]

It's very common for people making custom sets to end up with a bunch of random leftover designs that they really like, but can't justify sticking into the main set. Aftermath and the Big Score feel like an excuse to print a bunch of pet designs.

[@lloydlineske2642]

Fallen Empires isnt anywhere near the worst Magic set. Its top 10, but certainly not 1 or 2... Or 3. The cards he showed as bad cards are all very good. Hand of Justice is still awesome today. Deep Spawn is a total house. Especially if you put in a card that shuffles your deck if it gets milled. Turns the disadvantage into a positive. I use to use Gaea's Blessing to do it.

[@F-aber]

honestly as an eldrazi lover i liked Battle for Zendikar and i also like devoid both as flavour and just to we can get more diverse Eldrazi cards while keeping them colourless, thats why im glad we get devoid back for MH3

[@jdawgg904]

Crazy there was an entire section on battle for zendikar and not a single mention of expeditions. Hate them or love them, expeditions had a huge impact on the game and how people approached case breaks and box openings.