Commander Clash S4 Episode 12: 100th Episode Special!

[@chickenwyngs3646]

Commander Clash is one of my favorite things to happen on Saturdays, and I’m so glad the series has lasted this long. Here’s to another 100!

[@sethpannabecker5961]

Three hundred commanders died to make this video... Their sacrifice will be remembered.

[@etaIItheta]

Come on Tomer. If you punted more frequently, you could play for the Lions.

[@SilverAlex92]

Well, tomer, even if the flying men are 1/1s, I must remind you that they are INDEED well trained in combat: 5 of them can kill a normal dragon, and 7 an elder dragon 13 flying men striking at the same time deal the same damage as a meteor impact 15 of the 20 flying men are enough to kill Enmrakul at her prime, tho an additional 6 flying men are required if you don't want to lose any other permanent in the fight with the plane devoring entity that emobidies the very concept of endings. I dunno about you, but if a squad of 21 persons can take down a chutlhu level entity, I'd say they are well trained in combat

[@kamlot0]

Problem is that twenty flying men are together 1/1 :-)

[@SilverAlex92]

ohh, then, in that case, it takes 10 well trained in combat flying men to defeat a small girl?

[@garlicwitch6977]

You are the worst... ^~^

[@RChally]

*Tom at the negotiating table* "Hey Richard are you willing to talk?" (After 18 seconds of conversation Strip Mine his land. After Richard doesn't destroy his Sol Ring) "Hey Tomer do you wanna talk? (Realizes he doesn't need politics hits Tomer anyway) "Hey Jen do you wanna talk?" (Creates an alliance for the rest of the game) I'm glad Richard was able to win. That Fact or Fiction was pretty egregious. Not to mention it was Jen and Tom vs Richard and "Tomer". Tomer's in quotes cause he didn't really play after turn 7.

[@BenDy3223]

Tomer, your turn 4, why?! What was the pay off?! Do you do this just to make me scream at my computer?

[@arashinoguardianyeah9083]

and what to say about turn 7? *facepalm*

[@atmaximum]

Dabble Babble AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

[@lelandgill3631]

Tomer is notorious for nonsensical plays justified by horrible tactics

[@Kivuhl]

Chill guys. it's just comander

[@argonnas2]

Tomer is confirmed the worst of the group

[@isaachaahr8691]

Tomer, if you played Triton Shorestalker you could prowl out knowledge expedition on Richard for a ramp spell to solve mana problems.

[@patrickkelley6672]

isaac haahr he didnt even need that. He had a fairy

[@bondeulv]

patrick, Prowl only cares about Rogues.

[@faceoctopus4571]

"He is right but don't listen to him."

[@kingfuzzy2]

( ;

[@NimbleSoulThief]

I believe MTGO triggered Omnath (1:14:30) correctly, but the explanation was incomplete. State based actions happen simultaneously. So Omnath and Tom were killed at the same time. However, the reason that Richard got the triggers is because all of the following was being taken into account in this particular round of state-based actions. Rule 800.4a When a player leaves the game, all objects owned by that player leave the game and any **effects which give that player control of any objects or players end.** Then, if that player controlled any objects on the stack not represented by cards, those objects cease to exist. Then if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. **This is not a state-based action.** It happens as soon as the player leaves the game. If the player who left the game had priority at the time he or she left, priority passes to the next player in turn order who's still in the game. Tom lost control of Omnath as it was dying. I would not have caught that in a paper game. I'm quite pleased to have learned something from this video. Thank you.

[@HugSeal42]

I'm still split on this. The elementals and Tom die simultanesouly due to SBA. And all SBAs are performed simultaneously. So the Omnath jumps back to Richard as Tom dies. Meaning that the omnath was never on Richards side when the elementals died. The cleanup part when someone dies is not a SBA, but the player losing definitely is. Not sure if appliccable aswell but 704.7 states: If a state-based action results in a permanent leaving the battlefield at the same time other state-based actions were performed, that permanent’s last known information is derived from the game state before any of those state-based actions were performed. So if last known information is used the omnath is definitely on Toms side of the board and the elementals shouldn't trigger it. Could be that since a computer cannot do things simultaneously they have the game go through SBA from top to bottom and therefore kills Tom before killing the creatures.

[@NimbleSoulThief]

HugSeal42 704.7 is not really relevant here because there is no effect that needs information about Omnath. The trigger event happens when performing SBAs. The focal point here is that, as a part of leaving the game (losing), Tom lost control of Omnath at the same time it was dying. The same thing would happen if you just detroyed Omnath and Control Magic at the same time without killing Tom.

[@GrayDeath66666]

Tomer you had a 1 drop rogue and Knowledge Exploitation from the start, you could have gotten another island the whole game.

[@ODIRGO]

Good for Jen to finally use politics with Tom. I think she knows that Tom always kills her first, and her fact and fiction deal is the best thing she has done up to the moment. As for Tomer, damn, it is getting just painful to watch!! I still think he does that on purpose for the comments, but it is getting counterproductive.

[@enabors249]

I remember watching since episode one! I'm so proud of the progress you've made. :)

[@kukitanuki4037]

richard shouting "noooo!" in distress is the best

[@YuioEa]

Today, we have tomer playing oops, all forests

[@Devn8tr]

Tomer, why did you never think of casting a rogue creature to cast your Knowledge exploitation?

[@jake61494]

...Can't you have used Scryb ranger to bounce a land after tapping it, then replay it for 5 mana? Despite the huge misplay, you still could have cast Edric the next turn.

[@andrelacoursiere2589]

And for multiple turns after...which made it so much worse. So many draws missed...lol

[@DoctorPhanan]

I actually think this is the best line. Not even a misplay to let Edric go, because instead of sacrificing the ranger, he gets to attack and draw with it next turn.

[@ShadowHawk2012]

Thanks for 100 awesome episodes guys :) would have loved for Jake and Seph to return to replay the first episode again. Looking forward to the next 100 clashes!

[@kkgcm]

it's very cool to see the evolution of the series, I hope there are 100 more episodes of this format that I love.

[@HarryBuddhaPalm]

Yeah, the whole "Everyone gets to draw cards now!" doesn't work when I play my Edric deck, either.

[@Strolpol]

Always happy to see Angry Omnath take a game, though this build makes some choices that I'm not crazy about.

[@Jamie261090]

If Tom had cast "In Garruk's Wake" on turn 10, Richard would have cracked his panorama in response to get a landfall trigger and make another elemental token. Then 5 Elementals would have died, and Richard would have dealt 15 damage to Tom's face to knock him out of the game. Well played Tom for seeing that and not casting IGW lol :p

[@thetruth4654]

I am suprised that nobody has played Kambal or Ruric Thar against Tomer he after all is in love with drawing Cards and most card Draw effects are instansts or sorceries so that would make the game alot more brutal for both Seth and Tomer honestly Jen and Tom should play those Commanders next week

[@nickjoeb]

Piling on Tomer / Tom while Richard has that nutty board was pretty funny. Tom if you saced your commander sphere you could have tried to draw the ninth mana for wake.

[@RChally]

The Command Sphere was his 8th mana. By sacking it he would've went to 7.

[@myyoutubeaccount3502]

Robert Challacombe by tapping and then saccing it, he could have drawn an untapped land and had 9 mana

[@AhranMaoDante]

"but we're allies" Me: And as my ally you are helping me draw cards. :3

[@ThePentexSucksBalls]

Could you not have used Scryb ranger to cast Edric?

[@urawhat]

Sean Veck I was just about to mention floating bounce replay.

[@hydra66]

I really want to see jake and jen in the same match with seth. Even if it was a one time thing

[@dagsjolin9887]

I miss Prophet of Kruphix, so fun to have her in play. Ofcourse it was hell to play against, but thats minor details

[@stresselemental]

Just had the last 10 cards come in for my Edric build. Really fun chaining extra turns with beastmaster's ascension

[@GeorgeMaj15]

Love that the last words are "was that the outro?" "Soooo--" "If you liked the video..."

[@lynminal]

I miss jake

[@brewbrewbrewthedeck4138]

I miss Seth. How dare they not include him in the 100th episode ;( !?

[@t.beckettchristensen3493]

RighT!?!

[@BrunoCasagrandaNeves]

Oh, poor Tomer... Even the outro was a punt!!

[@martintaylor570]

Congratulations guys!!!

[@atmaximum]

LUL People are hating on Jen for a deck that Seth built.

[@Suavek69]

ok, now that's too much. I've been on the "hating" camp for a while now because I do think that her decks are fun killers, but how can people complain about... eh. When she is not the one who made deck I'm a happy guy. I'd love to see commander clash where Jen just does not build decks... Just that little change would be great for me.

[@Volvary]

I honestly don't see much Jen hate this week. All I see is people saying that Jen should play other people's deck more often.

[@Suavek69]

Because she should! just like Jake should have. It's cool that they are spikey, and I don't mind Jen's attitude when it comes to killing players etc but her decks are unbearable

[@fildrichz]

unblessed and who exactly is hating on her? I don't see a sing comment

[@tmanc1998]

its fine shes spikey and her decks were fine when seth was around. the problem is literally no one runs any control elements minus seth. now that he's gone her decks get free reign and it sucks. i just want someone to play a deck with any real board control

[@poipoi9816]

Poor Tomer, not drawing a second blue source was real rough. I want to see the version of this game where Tom strip mined him though. Richard would still have won, but the salt would be incredible.

[@belenkaya]

When tomer played a zephyr sprite he could've had an unblockable rogue in play and rogue tribal spell in hand. he could use it to cast some explosive vegetation from richard's deck.

[@MeriadocMyr]

This entire time Tomer could've casted his Triton Shorestalker to cast knowledge exploitation for prowl and just get a big ramp spell from Richards deck.

[@ivellious209]

I would assume elixer is in the deck for instant speed answer to graveyard hate like bajouka bog

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

ivellious209 it's also mill hate and kind of graveyard hate as well

[@SmartAlec1]

90% of the comments here are people hating on Tomer 5% of the comments here are people wishing people would stop hating on Jennifer. 5% of the comments here are people hating on Jennifer.

[@beneighinger8995]

You should have had seth and jake back for this one. No problems with tom and jen but they were the OG crew

[@anthonyfodera7978]

That might have been the best outro ever

[@RaijinTheThunder]

I wanna see Tom play a well built Omnath deck.

[@GaryFromLiberty]

I caught that Matrix reference at 20:57 Tomer!

[@getchucked7401]

Tomer... You were sitting on Triton Shorewalker + Knowledge exploitation all game. You had the mana to do this for a long time. I can almost guarantee that you would have been able to pull a board wipe or something game breaking from Tom's deck and reverse your misfortune.

[@TheRealWormbo]

Tomer never had double blue, though. That fairy can only bounce forests, and his only blue dual land had no basic land types. And none of his creatures were rogues either, so no single-blue Prowl cost.

[@getchucked7401]

The prowl cost is only single blue lol. He had several turns where casting the merfolk rogue was the safe play, and would have been set up on the following turn.

[@GeorgeMaj15]

I always miss when I'm supposed to submit a deck. I have a wild, wild idea that Seth or Tom would love to play with a janky infinite combo. Plus it's four colors. I'll have to submit next time!

[@basicpigeonbee]

so you just your 100th cmdr video and MTG Muddstah just had his 200th cmdr video.

[@TheRealWormbo]

38:30 Check out that (almost) one whole minute of "Tight. Plays." by Tomer. ;-)

[@christopherjacobs9849]

OK, so the rules @ 1:15:37 are actually pretty complicated and I'm still not sure that MTGO interpreted it correctly. I'm not sure that MTGO is actually wrong either. The rules don't appear to be super clear about this. First things first, rule 704 doesn't actually cover what happens when a player leaves the game in a multiplayer format and the timing of everything --- that's rule 800.4 (multiplayer) and rule 603 (triggers). From what I can tell, immediately after combat damage is dealt and before players get priority, state-based actions are checked and performed simultaneously without using the stack (this is the Rule 704 referenced in the video). So, Tom loses the game and creature (including Omnath) are put into the graveyard. These two simultaneous events both cause separate events to happen, and here's where the interpretation gets trickiest: 1. Tom losing the game invokes rule 800.4a, and his controlling effect on Omnath goes away. "This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game." according to that rule. 2. Omnath's ability triggers. Rule 603 covers this and has this to say: "Because they aren’t cast or activated, triggered abilities can trigger even when it isn’t legal to cast spells and activate abilities." I couldn't find anything more specific about the timing of this. Note that this cover when an ability actually triggers and not when those triggers get placed on the stack. The first can happen anytime (for instance, during the middle of spell resolution). The tricky part is exactly when (2) happens. The rules (in 603 anyway) appear to imply that Omnath's death triggers should happen as it is being put into the graveyard simultaneously with Tom losing the game and all of (1) happening. It's not obvious to me that Tom doesn't own these triggers. It's also not obvious that he does own them. Any Magic Judges out there who know why (1) happens before (2)? Am I missing a rule somewhere?

[@richarddilkes328]

Oh Tomer... just... why?

[@lorddraekan]

Tomer! Everytime you come on I always think you sound like Ray Romano from that show "Everybody Loves Raymond." Even the way you talk sounds similar. It's quite uncanny. Anywayyyy. GO SANT...I mean Edric....

[@rike889]

Sweet Islands Tomer

[@aidansmith1198]

For episode 150 can you do a meetup where you play in person

[@MountieBeaver42]

Tom lives in florida, Richard lives on the west coast of the USA, Tomer lives in Ontario, and Jen lives ... somewhere else, so it an in person game is likely off the table unless they all decide to travel to a GP or some other event that they'd be going to attend anyway.

[@benrodir2]

I hate watching paper magic online, this is way better.

[@faceoctopus4571]

1:25:44 I would have considered targeting spell bomb with the bounce spell to make her sack a land to remove the omnath.

[@FaithBuildJarede]

Could we get the next episode maybe be a part 2 of this with new cards and upgrades added since the first episode.

[@ms6548]

Tomer; please.

[@t.beckettchristensen3493]

So Richard is hereby the rules expert! Got it

[@cassie7611]

Another clash, another Tomer view. I wanna see someone else's perspective 😂

[@TonySloan2112]

Failed so hard on your resolution Tomer... funniest game yet, lol.

[@stevenjones9310]

You called tom, jake when he vamperic tutered..." probably for a strip mine knowing jake".

[@MWorl91]

Steven Jones Bc jake made the deck

[@Ahayzo]

Can someone explain the Omnath trigger deal to me? As I understand it, all SBAs are checked simultaneously, so Omnath should have died at the exact same time as Tom, meaning all those creatures died before the Control Magic effect went away.

[@stephenhousman6975]

The SBA action order if stuff happens simultaneously goes under Rule 704.5. So Richard does get omnath back before it dies due to damage taken.

[@Ahayzo]

Stephen Housman You know I read 704 all the way through and somehow completely missed that. Turns out I'm just an idiot, hooray!

[@kamlot0]

704.3. Whenever a player would get priority, the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions SIMULTANEOUSLY as a single event. (...) Order of SBAs in 704.5 doesn't matter. I think Richard shouldn't have got the triggers.

[@cannonspectacle5195]

52:44 "What's that Magic card?" "It's Capsize!"

[@kingfuzzy2]

So magical

[@HugSeal42]

Regarding 704 and SBA. All SBA are performed simultaneously so the player should die at the same time as the tokens. So the creature shouldn't jump back before killing the creatures, it should hapen simultaneously. Then there's: 704.7. If a state-based action results in a permanent leaving the battlefield at the same time other state-based actions were performed, that permanent’s last known information is derived from the game state before any of those state-based actions were performed. So if LKI is used it hould consider the creature to still be on the dying players side during SBA. Definitely not entirely sure though.

[@HugSeal42]

Overall fun game with slightly higher powered decks. Was really surprised on Toms move at 1:02 though. SPOILER BELOW Really bm to throw someone under the bus like that and not something I thought he would do. If you make a deal with someone promising to wrath the board if they let you damage them and then just ignore it leaving the one you made the deal with dead you lose all trustworthyness when it comes to making deals in the future.

[@MWorl91]

HugSeal42 but he couldn't wrath the board. It was contingent on him drawing an untapped land Bc he only had 8 mana and the wrath cost 9. He didn't draw the land so the Control Magic was all he could do

[@taishoukinjiro]

Tomer? Why not use the merfolk in hand to play exploitation to steal a ramp spell? Would have smoothed out a lot.

[@petemagnuson7357]

1:14:30 is super weird. It looks like Tom dies, Omnath returns to Richard, Omnath+Richard's token die, triggers are placed on the stack as Richard (i.e. asking him for actions). related test: have a stolen creature be dealt exactly lethal damage at the same time its controller dies, while it's owner has an anthem effect. Does it die before going back to its owner, or live thanks to the anthem? useful rules: 704.3: "...the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event..." plus some other junk. 704.5a is game loss from

[@jackhemsworth7515]

Finally gets to play Edric again and gets flattened by his own manabase. Painful

[@amamozart93]

Missing Viridian Longbow in Glissa (goes infinite with staff)

[@codelicious6590]

The reason for cards being cheaper online: they don't actually exist and it is fuzzy as to whether you own them after you purchase them.

[@EliPye35]

It's not fuzzy, you don't own them. Essentially when you pay for a card it's a one shot rental fee.

[@andrews6013]

I've seriously have watched 100 episodes of Commander clash?

[@MegaBlaster326]

But the real question is, WHAT HAPPENED TO JAKE? I MISS HIM

[@willofthewisp9864]

MegaBlaster326 He left MTGoldfish I believe

[@ianmcabee8036]

MegaBlaster326 he had other things to do

[@benrodir2]

the punts are so fucking real

[@chrisjustiss3298]

No matter how many times I watch the commander clash guys, I can't get over the fact that Tom's personality is the epitome of the type of player i can't stand. I would kill Tom every single game first if i had to play with him. I want Jen or Tomer to run a heavy black deck just once and run Mind twist effects and throw them all Tom's way.

[@timsantiago8392]

I want a "Timer Fail Count"

[@justinkp]

They've had this in the past.

[@BloodLegaZ]

It broke because its counter cannot go high enough.

[@tims.8318]

TOOOOOMER what was that game ....????

[@Furavara]

I actually disagree with the MTGO ruling about Omnath, beacause: 704.7. If a state-based action results in a permanent leaving the battlefield at the same time other state-based actions were performed, that permanent’s last known information is derived from the game state before any of those state-based actions were performed. (from MTG comprehensive rulebook) Th last known information for Omnath before any other statebased actions was it being controlled by Tom, so it should be treated as dying under Toms control in my mind.

[@jacobwalbridge2535]

Tomer I love you man, but this was hard to watch. So so so so so many punts.

[@BloodLegaZ]

Seth INeverPlayMyCommander first deck was a Voltron commander?!?

[@kingfuzzy2]

Maybe why he switched

[@faceoctopus4571]

If you have rules trouble, try asking the rules IRC.

[@ODIRGO]

I know this is an old video but, Why didn't Tom return the hammer to Richard's hand right before attacks were declared? that way, all the extra creatures richard put on the field that turn would be unable to atack him.

[@tatersgames]

@MTGGoldfish where is Seth why is he not here anymore

[@MTGGoldfish]

I'm not on this season of Commander Clash. I'll be back in the future though (and I'm still around as a sub when someone needs an episode off).

[@baileyrose6459]

How long do you guys think it'll be until Tom loses his mind from explaining F8?

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Bailey Rose it will be like the shining exept replace the writing with F8

[@eltratzodelosintenetzos2045]

he has been doing it since way before joining this group. it seems to be a conditioned reflex by now

[@bveencamp3538]

So i know tomer punted pretty hard, but jen was still the biggest bonehead in the match lol. All she had to do was keep tapping glissa and killing litterally all the creatures that entered the battlefield and it was an easy black lock. Since the staff untaps everytime something is killed, that was jens game to lose and lose it she did.

[@dpscribe]

Tomer still making same mistakes in episode 1

[@RecklessFables]

They start by talking about how they killed Jake first all the time. Maybe why he left?

[@kingfuzzy2]

Sure he had other things to do

[@MountieBeaver42]

Why do you guys always tap colorless lands and signets last? Using colorless sources first would have allowed Richard to activate the hammer of purphoros when he played it.

[@PalPlays]

I wasn't here when Jake left. What happened to him?

[@justinkp]

He just stopped making content.

[@Kechlivecek]

I have a question about the last turn (so spoilers incoming): Could have Tomer played his Merfolk Rogue for U and megamorph Salamander for 3 and.. still stay alive? And if he could, could he stay alive even though he wouldn't use his Rouge to block? He could then pay the prowl cost next turn and that might have "saved" him.. I don't really know.

[@Kechlivecek]

Richard had five 5/5 and one Omnath + 3 damage or one hasty Omnath + 0 damage. If he.. didn't play any other creatures.. Tomer could still block him I believe. He would block 4 of them, resulting in getting ten damage or I don't know how much.. and.. then.. maybe.. :D

[@johns832]

5-0 fact or fiction... Especially to the person with the strongest board.... :/

[@urschniwurschni8603]

Tomer in your last turn, why not attack with Zephyr Sprite and then cast Knowledge Exploitation for it's prowl cost? Then cast Blashemous Act out of Richard's deck...

[@TheRealWormbo]

Zephyr Sprite is no Rogue, which would have been the precondition for using Prowl.

[@DontStopTheHustle]

Every time I watch a commander video for Omnath he somehow fails to get enough lands to play the game. wtf.

[@lokone303]

you play without trying to play, and make some games boring, because there is not the exciment to see how builds work, because you dont "try to play the deck = play the game" is like see 4 people talking in front of a cup of tea but there is magic cards instead of tea. Telling your hands to others and acting like not wanting to kill each other. Its like ignoring a wining play at chess, its an illegal action. Anyways its a nice show overall and i usually enopy watching it, thx for your work and Gratz on 100 caps :D

[@willofthewisp9864]

lokone303 Sounds like a spikey opinion, but I can agree to an extent. I believe that there is always a optimal and a sorta way to deal with a situation and playing a deck.

[@stephenhousman6975]

TBH I thought Jen would have used jack's deck. She like to do broken thing.

[@BloodLegaZ]

Stephen Housman I don't think she like the control parts of it though. She likes to be a spike by just having big scary threats and turning sideways.

[@Summon_Aery]

#JakeDidNothingWrong

[@garlicwitch6977]

I do not believe this...

[@firebird654321]

someone always ruins the whole outcome of the game in the comments, lol. can people please say **SPOILER** if they want to discuss outcomes before they ruin things for folks that like to read comments while watching?

[@justinkp]

Its probably not a good idea to read comments for videos you haven't watched - its generally assumed you've watched the video. Maybe people should say *SPOILER* but most are not going to do so.

[@jester2720]

So if they are on the 100th episode how many tomer fails have we had over the corse of the 100 could it be a 1000 lol... chim in youtube is it possible tomer has a 1000 fails???

[@garlicwitch6977]

Jester Funnyman Nope 9001... ^~^

[@5fwwfw]

Tomer is sooooooo bad at Magic , omg

[@XToxicPurplex]

The threat assessment in this game gives me ass pains

[@williamstanton6126]

Is anyone else getting bad audio problems? It skips every few seconds

[@finley8408]

A Little bit yea

[@Suavek69]

Can we have Jen playing someone else's deck every week please... PLEASE!

[@robertstiefelful]

Wasn't this week supposed to be viewer submitted decks?

[@TheRealWormbo]

They seem to record two games per session, i.e. right after this game they probably played the one with viewer-submitted decks.

[@robertstiefelful]

TheRealWormbo huh, I never noticed that before. Thanks for the reply.