Mules Are WAY BETTER THAN HORSES - An Outfitter's Perspective

[@outinthesticks1035]

Years back I knew a dentist, who wanted to start breeding race horses . He bought a bunch of high priced mares , and a very highly rated stud . Raised a couple crops of foals , paid lots of money for trainers . Then his neighbor brought home a donkey jack . Couple weeks the jack turned up in the horse pasture, her said no problem , the stud will keep it away from the mares . Next spring one of the mares threw a colt , 39 threw mules . To say he was pissed is a understatement. Next fall he found out the Packers in the mountains would pay more for a weaned mule than he was getting for started thoroughbreds . He sold his stud and bought a mammoth jack

[@CliffGray]

HAHA! great story man. Love it

[@The.Good.Place.]

Love it

[@kristinabaade2343]

That is the BEST story! LOL Jacks rock!

[@Amanda-yf7vj]

Oh that's too funny!! I have 6 donks and I love em! Everybody says ah sell them donkeys you're not doing anything with them! Nope they are just awesome critters

[@OneGold_777]

I took a mule into the back country this year, snow, downed trees and treacherous terrain the whole time. He was unbelievably intelligent and I often gave up the reigns so he could choose our path through deadfall and snow, no surer footed an animal had I seen. My hunt partner had a mustang and quarter horse that were constantly stumbling and had less concern about their own safety which was not a good thing. If you're a barbarian who pushes life about then a horse is for you, sensitivity is what is needed for a mule and you will be rewarded with safe travel and great companionship

[@CliffGray]

Lots of truth here. Love this comment. Thanks 👍

[@JamesBond-so1of]

@@CliffGray I've owned over a hundred horses and half a dozen or so mules and I can't say as I have much use for a mule personally I just could never get along with them never did any packing in but using them in harness and riding them I'll stick with horses

[@donjones4719]

In Chile back c.1800 they had a saying, "Don't choose the strongest mule but the one who reasons best." Pack trains went up into the Andes on some pretty sketchy roads and on even sketchier wooden bridges. The muleteers wouldn't go onto a bridge a mule refused to cross. Well, that's what a European traveler recorded back then. (Alexander Humboldt.)

[@yourdady83]

You stupid f*** y** have to have horses to make mules get over it

[@CliffGray]

@@donjones4719 love it! I don't know that I'd cross a bridge if they were looking at it with second thoughts! haha!

[@edgratz3425]

I hunted in Idaho with an outfitter that had mules instead of horses. He told me that the mule was less likely to slip and fall off the side of the mountain with me on his back. He also said mules were much less likely to rear and buck if they saw a snake and throw me off the side of the mountain. Although ornery and stubborn, I was ok with riding a mule for the rest of the trip. The mule was ornery and stubborn, too.

[@CliffGray]

good mules are for sure a bit better in the trail environment! sounds like you had an adventure!

[@raywhitehead730]

My Grandfather, always owned a mule , to work with in his ranch /farm in Texas. He said they were more intelligent, and steady in their work. Though he was not poor and could afford any tractor he wanted, And he always had a tractor, he always plowed the family garden with a mule. in 1970 he died age 90, in the garden, behind the mule he was plowing with. The mule was found still standing and still waiting for his command.

[@CliffGray]

that is an epic story! your grandpa was a true Mule man. thanks for sharing Ray!

[@raywhitehead730]

My grandmother found him when he didn't come in for lunch, and she went to the porch to call him in. She became suspicious when she saw the mule just standing there, with the plow hooked up, in the field .

[@CliffGray]

@@raywhitehead730 well hey, there are a lot of worse ways to go. he got out of here while gardening... I can only hope for an exit like that... breathing fresh air, outside of a hospital.

[@alberta1980]

Mules are tough as nails, eat less, work harder, rarely get sick, have more stamina, better footing, smarter and more thinking, and have rock hard feet.

[@CliffGray]

Pretty much 👍👍👍

[@bartb21]

Well said, Mules are not for everyone, but they have super cool personality and it is a beautiful thing in rough country to give them the reins and watch their feet do the work.

[@CliffGray]

for sure!

[@mulepowerforge]

My mule is perfect. You couldn’t ask for better. She’s very intelligent, safe, and awesome to ride. I actually won’t go on pack trips or anywhere for that matter without her. She’s got good behavior with other animals and people, and is very gentle and tolerant of everything. She’s like the exact opposite of the stereotypical mule. She’s also really funny and tries to follow me everywhere. Always wants scratches and ear rubs. She’s my best friend. 🙂 I think we have that human animal bond cause she much prefers me over anyone else, you can tell she gets uncomfortable when other people start doing stuff with her. I guess it comes from doing everything together for years. I wouldn’t trade her for anything.

[@CliffGray]

That’s awesome. Nothing like a mule that puts their head down so you can rub the back of those big ears! 👍

[@katr8756]

@@CliffGray Or the "inside"of those ears! Had a mule that eventually loved having her ears scratched on the inside. A young mule I bought from slaughter. She was sort of a handfull to begin with, as she had never been messed with, but she had a pretty good disposition, and kind eyes. She had the prettiest head for a mule I'd seen in a while. Almost like the head of a horse. ... She became a great saddle, and wagon mule!!

[@jawnTem]

I started ridding the trails solo with a horse before going with a mule and I doubt that I will ever go back to the horse. Ganted, they are more aesthetic, especially at a full run with their main and tail flying in the wind but a mule carries their own beauty. Riding a mule has given me a pretty good perspective on their differences. I eventually went on a "Trail Rides" which involved other riders on horse back, and got a fair share of ribbing. One time I'd had enough and when someone at the fire asked me why I preferred a mule over a horse saying they were stubborn, hard to train, and not as smart as a horse. I replied, well they just have a different mentality. Take a horse that you want to cross a stream. You can take a crop to the backside of a horse and it understands the issue of crossing the stream. Take a crop to a mule and crossing the stream is no longer the issue, you are. Now, which is smarter. By the way, I've trained my mule to ride inside of a minivan, walk on her back legs, (I have a photo of her standing on one leg in a turn), got her mulit-gaited by voice, one of them I call "pronging" (basically what African Springbocks do when they do the, Peppy Le Peu gait), along with the normal stuff, like lay down, roll over, sit, etc. I wish we had come across you in our travels as I would really love to sit and chat with you about stuff. One of the things that I've never heard mention is their eating preferences. I was riding with a girl from Germany and her mule would grab stuff off the trail and act like it was the cats-meow. Lol! When my mule got to the same stuff she she grabbed a mouthful and couldn't spit it out fast enough. In the desert, I saw her John mule bite off a short limb of a Joshua Tree and just as carefully turn the thing around in his mouth so that the spines would travel down his throat in the correct direction.

[@CliffGray]

love you insight! To see a mule in a minivan - now that would be awesome. Really appreciate the comment. Thanks

[@miker794]

Great story and thanks for sharing your experiences. Old guy tells me that everyone should train 20 donkeys to pack first. If you actually get this done you get to train 20 Mules to ride and pack. Then if you survive this you get to train a horse. There would be no bad horse trainers !!!

[@CliffGray]

Bwhaha! There is some truth to that, I’m sure!

[@valrenanelson5507]

Would be a great horse trainer because nobody on this earth could possibly have more patience. And patience is KEY!

[@mikewyd53]

I grew up with horses and have only had one mule. I bought her very cheap, $100, because she was a problem. She had been treated pretty rough and did not like or trust people. I realized right away she did not want to be ridden, so I only packed her. She turned out to be the best friend in the mountains a guy could ever have. I never had to lead her, where I went she went. If the weather or darkness made it hard to tell where we were going, I told her to go ahead. She would go out around me and the string and lead us back to camp or to the game we were packing out. I loved that mule.

[@phillipcoiner4232]

Check out my post above to see why she didn't like anyone riding her.

[@CliffGray]

I love it man! that's what they say, right? Everyman should get a one great woman, one great dog and one great mule in his life. Sounds like you got your mule!

[@johnsimonelli9988]

I have had the opportunity to ride horses and work with mules on guided hunts and listening to you describe them is spot on and educational. Thank you.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks John!

[@reb1050]

Although I have never owned a mule, I agree with everything you have said about them. My wife and I used to trail ride quite a bit and it was usually in mountainous terrain. We rode Missouri Fox Trotters and they were bred for their gait and stamina in mountainous terrain.. We often rode with others and some of them had mules. I remember, more than once, someone would say I needed to get a mule. My usual answer was "I have a mule headed horse. Isn't that enough?" But deep down, I always admired a good trail riding gaited mule. One group of people we rode with referred to themselves as the "Over The Hill Gang". They were all 60 yrs. old or older. One of the group started telling my wife and I about this mule he had for sale. He always commented about how smooth it was and it's "running walk" gait. But every time he talked about it, others would chuckle. I finally asked why and another member said that he was correct...the mule did have a running walk. It would throw your azz off, run away, and make you walk home. Great video and very informative. ^5

[@CliffGray]

Bwhaha! I’ve known a couple mules like that

[@lockgessner]

Last season was first with stock, took two mares and a mule in, mule was a last minute thing and out of my 7 horses shes one of 2-3 that have 100% made the cut. She will die with me… I will never go in the back country without a mule like her again, she absolutely will not tolerate unwanted visitors and wakes you up with plenty of time to prepare. She also packed a very respectable pack of elk out and never once complained even when her saddle rolled. Looking more for this season.

[@CliffGray]

that's awesome. I didn't hit on that in the video but mules can be crazy good guard animals. I have seen them beat the hell out of dogs, run off coyotes, etc...

[@jgarlito82]

That’s so cool 😂

[@vikingskuld]

My grandpa on my mom's side loved mules. He grew up using them and horses. He didn't care for horses but mules were the best thing in the world to him. I never used one but grew up riding horses and can't say I'm real fond of them lol. I always thought it was quite the impression they made on my grandfather as he lived in town and never owned another one in my life time yet he always talked about how much he loved them. Thank you for the video you got a new subscriber. This is the first video of yours I have seen.

[@CliffGray]

welcome. awesome story about your grandpa, too. Not too uncommon for folks to really develop a passion for mules.

[@fourdogstoveco]

I have worked mules for over fifty years. Never could get along with horses. Worked my first mule when I was eight years old. Been in love ever since. All the good things they say are true, all the bad things they say are true. Always got my best mules out of Kentucky or Tennessee. The reason being in my opinion is they have a mule tradition and culture. They know mules. Watching your video, I think is the best I've seen of what makes them different and who should have one or not. Thank you for that info to the equine world by someone that has been there and done that.

[@CliffGray]

really appreciate the positive feedback! totally agree that some places have a great mule culture, and that is where folks should get their mules.

[@savageater57]

There is a. Small town in the county where I live that was for many decades called mule town. This was where , prior to the common use of tractors ,everyone in the Eastern part of the state you came for a mule . Eventually the business switched over to the automobile . The backside of the building still has the sign , Pamplico Mule Co .

[@CliffGray]

thats cool!

[@realluckysgirl]

I always had horses .....my only regret was not breeding my excellent mare back to a donkey..... I took a mule ride in Yosemite. Mules are incredibly smart. Sure footed, not one stumble. They are better trail partners IF you are smart enough for them. Be fair, do not ask them to hurt themselves, don't use ill fitting tack......horses, sadly, put up with way too much, from ppl who do not deserve them...100% right!

[@CliffGray]

lots of truth there! thanks for the comment

[@mark97301]

I owned and operated a pack station in the eastern sierra for 25 years. I got asked this question all the time. Your explanation was so spot on to what I used to tell people it was uncanny. The only difference is sometimes I would say “ mules are great as long as you don’t treat them like a horse “. Great video thanks

[@muleskinner485]

Thanks Cliff, you are so spot-on, i have had to explain this time and again to others, . I was born and raised Amish so i grew-up with both, hunted elk at both ends of Colo. with my own pack-mules, finely quit 7-8 years ago, in the mtns. mules just do everything easier and cheaper, better than a horse............

[@CliffGray]

pretty much! Some of my best crew and close friends, to this day, are Amish folks or guys that grew up Amish. Phenomenal with livestock.

[@thomaswaddell9012]

My dad was a mule skinner during WWll. Actually he was Sgt saddler. He loved those government mules. Told me lots of tales of them. His favorite was a story about taking them in a pack train all the way up Pikes Peak. He was in a mounted artillary unit. 75mm and 37mm pack guns. Ive had horses and rode a few mules but never had one. I liked them a lot.

[@brendaandjohn1416]

John Altenhoff Sr. ( Dad) owned a gas station garage on cripple creek around then I believe. Was a CPO in the Coast Guard.

[@CliffGray]

that's awesome! i bet he had some epic stories

[@sidilicious11]

I lead pack donkeys for 3 summers and noticed how much they were thinkers compared to horses. They were suefooted but we did have 2 fall off steep trails. They lived through it and could pack again after a day or two of rest.

[@kentpaulhamus2158]

I knew two people who used a mule to drag logs out of mountain land. This mule was harnessed to a log and pulled it over the crest of a hill and when the log started down the hill, it started sliding on its own, running into the mule and dragging it down the hill. At the bottom, the log was wrapped around the harness and the mule was pinned along side the log upside-down with it's feet in the air. It calmly laid there while they cut the harness to free the mule. They said a horse would have kicked and thrashed around until it would have either broke loose from the harness or hurt itself.

[@CliffGray]

wild story! some truth to that for sure... but still that is a great mule it sounds like!

[@kentpaulhamus2158]

@@CliffGray The two guys actually did pull logs out with a mule and did have a mishap pulling one down hill. This was a bar room story and may have gotten parts of it refined and stretched.

[@AndreaDingbatt]

@@kentpaulhamus2158 One of those men, was my Gramps, and Every word is True!! The real Jack-Ass was the Idiot who forgot to use a quick release between harness and the logs ~ and wanted to hurry up get dry,fed and rested, so he slightly overloaded it, for the wet conditions!! Gramps fired That wrangler/farmhand, on the spot, and rightly so!! ~My Nan knocked a few of this blokes front teeth out, when he went to get his things from the house, she bred and trained all the horses and mules and that tough little Lady couldnt stand "Foolishness that gets animals hurt!"!! He was a bit bruised n sore, with a couple of little nicks n scrapes, Ive still got a photo of my Nan stood with him,my Dad on his back!!

[@kentpaulhamus2158]

@@AndreaDingbatt Maybe you know of a similar mishap but the story I told was from two brothers, Kenny & Denny Diehl up Pine Creek mountain area in Pennsylvania. Nobody lost their teeth or got fired in this instance but the mule had an exciting ride down the hill!

[@brycehess6708]

Ive been running packbgoats for around 11 years and got a 2 yr old mule a year ago..this last weekend i rode him for the first time 👍...he learns and has the same personality as my oldest pack goats...horses seam like a different animal to me (my wife has ) and i just havent connected with her like i did the mule

[@toku_gawa]

I don’t know why I’m watching this guy, I don’t know anything about horses or mules but he does talk with passion and knowledge

[@CliffGray]

HAHAH! well, I'm glad you are watching!

[@Billybootski]

Buddy, this is absolutely unbelievable. My wife and I had a horse a few years ago named Pallandin. That horse you were brushing is an absolutely dead ringer. We just couldn't stop staring at it. God, what are the odds? By the way, I loved the entire video and now I'm subscribed.

[@CliffGray]

Haha! That’s cool. That was a great horse. His name was Rebel. Thanks for subscribing 👍

[@Hosstache]

There is nothing harder than putting down a loved animal you’re self. Thanks for sharing.

[@CliffGray]

So true! thanks

[@GardensLadyBug]

My grsndpa had a mule. Sometimes he'd take my dad, (a very young boy at the time - approx 4 or 5 years old), with him. He'd pick him up, place him on the mules back and guide the mule along. One day, walking through the woods this way, my dad, tickled he was tall enough to reach the branches, grabbed one. He didn't know not to hold on. It jerked him right off that mules back and he broke his arm. I've seen a picture of him on that mules back. My grandpa used that mule to help clear trees for fields and used him for plowing, hauling and riding. Mules are very impressive animals.

[@seller559]

To be honest I failed with horses. They’d figure me out pretty quick. The fact that a mule is smarter puts me at a greater disadvantage. I traded them all for a Harley. Was a good decision. Great video 👍

[@CliffGray]

Nothing wrong with that! thanks

[@ellafields9424]

❤😂 There are a lot of horse Owners that should switch to a Harley!😊 I've actually told a few as much.

[@dexterrr9163]

you can talk about anything and i can hear it for hours bro. great stuff love from mongolia, we use horses frequently for rugged places. Quality knowledge

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Dex! I'd love to get out to Mongolia one of these days.

[@3PercentNeanderthal]

My Eastern Kentucky great grandfather and his brothers used mules and their big ears as lookouts for their shine stills. They were,along with transport, an early warning system against government agents.

[@CliffGray]

hahahah, i love it! those big ears are an asset!

[@3PercentNeanderthal]

@@CliffGray mules are better than horses in some areas, they’re certainly smarter. Donkeys beat out both imo…personal experience we have all three on the farm.

[@CliffGray]

@@3PercentNeanderthal one of these days, I'll have to get some experience with donkeys!

[@rogerramjet7567]

Cliff, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve had a couple of rodeo’s packing into the back country. Pack horses spook and we spend the rest of the day picking up scattered items and repacking. 😢

[@Foxhunter49]

I worked professionally with horses for over 50 years, only interacted with one pair of mules once in my life (UK) they had been roughly handled and were distrusting of people. I did get them to be more trusting of me but they were sold before I could really learn about them. I did know a man who had been a mule skinner during WW1. He had a team of 10 Spanish bred mules. He said that if they had a day off they needed re breaking the next day. He owned a great property which he bought after the first war with money his mules won him. He said that. Vehicles would get bogged down and he would get the mules to pull them out. He would use a full team on one vehicle, then eight could pull the next until he was down to a pair. Never did those mules let him down. He bred Arabians but his first love was always the mules.

[@CliffGray]

that is a great story. thanks Linda. "He said that if they had a day off they needed re breaking the next day." - hahaha, there can be some truth to that

[@puma1304]

mules are incredible animals, tough and smart! during my childhood in the southern Andes I learned to appreciate their carrying capacity (so huge loads!) and their sure feet! I always felt secure riding on them through those narrow, winding mountain paths, also in deep snow! I would never have changed them for a horse.

[@CliffGray]

Sounds like you have been on some adventures with mules! the Andes would be fun

[@davidepps9190]

I would agree Pard, I have both and they both have their strong points. One thing that you did touch on is it’s hard to get a mule to go into a wreck where you can get a horse to go into a wreck to possibly eliminate a further accident. I have cowboyed much of my life, and picked up broncs, never saw a pickup man ride a mule. This would be one example of going into a wreck, to rescue a bronc rider. Many other examples, however I do love mules as well!

[@CliffGray]

but it would be cool to have the one and only pickup mule - bwhahahah!

[@davidepps9190]

I always say a mule will leave the seen of the crime, they be like “bs, I’m out-a-here!”

[@mrgeorgejetson]

"...there are these mules that are just dickhead outliers..." Actual LOL. Nearly spit my drink all over my laptop screen. Also, I found the Abe story really funny and also very moving. You're a good story teller, Cliff.

[@CliffGray]

thanks Alex!

[@swalt59]

As a backpack hunter I would love to have a mule. I couldn’t imagine how much stuff 10-12 mules could bring. Like RV camping in the backcountry

[@CliffGray]

Yeah, it's a bunch of stuff. Hahaha, 10-12 mules is a big guided camp. 3-4 wall tents, cots, etc... Nice backcountry camp!

[@feliciacoffey6832]

This was the most interesting, information -packed video I've ever seen!!! Love mules, love the stories, love the info. Subscribed!!!

[@jamesbohlman4297]

I logged with a team of Belgians, so I grew close to them. When riding during hunting season I had to choose my trail and start out easy. As far as an older team, I learned to shelter deck them during the winter nights.

[@davidbedell3062]

Totally agree. I packed for 12 years in the Sierra Nevada in California. We exclusively packed mules and rode some. We had 75 head of horses and mules. Your analysis is spot on. Thanks for bringing back some great memories. Do you have videos on the pluses of various pack equipment types and hitches?

[@CliffGray]

Thanks David! Glad you enjoyed the video and it brought back some good memories. Not a lot of pack videos but I plan on doing some this coming Summer/Fall.

[@raywhitehead730]

"Mules Days" in May, in Bishop, California. Great if you can make it. Look it up.

[@michaelsmith3381]

Back when I was a teenager I was lucky enough to have met and known Vern Smith. If you don’t know who Vern Smith is I highly encourage you to look him up and read some of his literature on owning and training mules. In my opinion he had more knowledge about mules than anyone. He was a great man and I am happy to have known him as a friend.

[@lydia4127]

Well said. The last little bit you said about sticky situations is the reason why as much as I have fallen in love with the big personality of a mule, I will always need at least a horse in my heard. My main competition animal right now is a mule. That intelligence is amazing. He's one that usually pees while I ride yet he understands the difference between the lap around the outside of the dressage Court and when we enter to do our test. Early-on showing dressage he peed once in a test but you could tell he was upset with himself for being unable to hold it, ever since he will stop to pee 1-3 x while we wait for the judges Bell for us to start the test, and he has never again done it well in the ring. And it helps him score better because his movement is much higher quality when he isn't doing that I have to pee waddle😂 Obviously not something I taught him, just something he understood in his high level of intelligence. Despite my extreme respect for his intelligence, I outride for many Teamsters, and it will always be better to ride my horse, because Huck will always tell me how stupid it is to get in and grab ahold of animals twice his size who are acting up🤔... have to say he is right, but him being right doesn't provide the Teamster's much assistance, so I will always have a slightly more stupid animal around😂🤷‍♀️ plus if I want to raise my next mule from the ground up, I do need a good-quality mare around.

[@scottkakos4236]

You’re spot on. I packed draft crosses for years and only rode horses. I have a friend in Wyoming that’s a retired outfitter and I rode with him about 10 years ago. I rode one of his mules and have been riding them ever since. I did buy and nice two year old mare this year but only to breed her to get more mules. Really like your videos and hope to do a sheep hunt with you guys some year.

[@milo555100]

My wife and I enjoyed this. We keep three horses at home but have had little exposure to mules. This is very interesting. Enjoyable listening to ya. Thank you Cliff.

[@herpderp3916]

Ligers are cool but not necessarily a good example of hybrid vigor. Their huge size actually becomes a detriment later in life, because they don't really stop growing and their size starts to become more than their organs and skeleton can handle.

[@MiddleOutdoorsman]

When it comes to equines, I know Jack and Schitt - and unfortunately Jack left town years ago. But, I found this video interesting and I certainly learned a few things. Now, the instant you started throwing out big words, I had to run this video by my favorite local veterinarian.... my wife. She pretty much agreed with everything you said, just used different words here or there. About the only thing she won't ever agree on, is putting animals down the old fashioned way. She'd much rather have used the blue juice. That said, she's not one of those types that get all butt hurt about it, she just has her preference. I guess Mules, in terms of intelligence, or sort of like the border collies of the equine world. Which I thought was an interesting comparison. As pack animals go, I wish we had the property to have some. I'd have gotten two or three pack goats a few years ago if i had the space. My wife calls the the "dogs of the ruminate world". I'm sure they're full of personality, probably easy to keep and feed (goats will eat most anything), maybe even make good company, but can't pack as much as other pack animals. Maybe 20 or 30 pounds tops? (edit: looks like 50-60 pounds) Although, for someone who's usually by themselves, they're probably all i'd ever need or want. About four or five years ago I ran into a guy who was running 4 pack goats, it was the coolest thing I ever saw.

[@CliffGray]

there are some folks really into pack goats. There is even a goat packing book. Someone sent me a copy. It was pretty cool. I can see how they would work well for someone wanting a more practical option. Great to hear your wife didn't tell you I was way off base! hahaha thanks for the comment

[@joeambaye8681]

I knew very little about horses vs mules but now I do. Cheers🍺 from London, England.

[@CliffGray]

cheers Joe! thanks

[@OldSchoolParatrooper]

Yes, that is a scientific felony. Dominant genes and recessive genes describe what genes are dominant in expressing when both are present. Recessive does not equal a negative attribute, and dominant does not equal better traits. Hybrid vigor does not have anything to do with allowing more dominant traits to come out. That said, the rest of your video seemed very well researched and delivered. Thank you

[@Mr.Big-Gunz]

I used to ride horses, & I've owned a few horses, some good, & some not so good, & I've rode mules quite a few times, i like them both, but Mules are stronger, more sure footed, & safer to ride, and horses are faster, better looking, & they will take orders better than mules, also A Mule will NOT HURT HISSELF, he will stop in midstep & won't step in a hole, while a horse will step in a hole damn near every time, i wouldn't turn around for the difference, i enjoyed them both very much..

[@CliffGray]

👍

[@tomballard8877]

I don’t know anything about mules but I do ask questions. There was this guy with pulling mules at a fair. And I asked why mules and not draft horses. He told me they’re smarter ,pull harder they know what to do and if they think it’s unsafe to them . They look at you and you get nope not doing it. When he hooked those mules up there was no doubt what their job was. My father used horses and mules on a farm back in the 20’s and 30’s. He liked mules more. But he said if a mule got sick or hurt ,dig a hole. But like I said I don’t know anything about mules myself.

[@IntenseAngler]

Awesome video Cliff! Man, every subject that you cover is always so well done, backed by experience, spot on, and just as plain ol' entertaining as it gets! That story about Abe was incredibly vivid... could practically see it happening. I can only imagine what that must have been like firsthand! Anyhow, thanks as always for sharing your knowledge, stories, and insights brother!

[@CliffGray]

thanks man! really appreciate the support

[@IntenseAngler]

@@CliffGray It's a pleasure man! 👍

[@andoros.7017]

Gigantism in Ligers is considered a deficit / health hinderance, not a beneficial phenomenon due to hybridization. I don’t believe this is considered “hybrid vigor” if hybrid vigor is supposed to be a positive/strengthening of a hybrid animal. I’ll take your word for it in the case of mules though since I’m not well read in Equine biology.

[@jimmyyounger618]

I particularly liked the part discussing good mules vs. bad mules as it took me back to my childhood when I listened to my grandfather talk about horses and mules. Funny what sticks and what's forgotten when you're a kid, but I still recall him saying, "A good mule is a blessing and a bad one is a nightmare." The worse thing that ever happened to the reputation of mules are breeders who decided all they can do with their bad-minded, lame mare is breed it to a neighbors wicked jack in order to have something to sell. A special note to keep in mind anywhere you ride or pack mules. You're in trouble if you come into proximity with an elephant. A comical quote about the war mules in Burma, in the Mars campaign, (now known as Myanmar)... "And there were those two damned elephants someone at Regimental Headquarters picked up and brought along. A mule can get used to almost anything, but he draws the line at an animal that hangs down at both ends. Sensible, not knowing whether an elephant is coming or going, the mule is inclined to play it safe and take off, regardless of road, underbrush, leader, column, or common courtesy." Man, if I had a nickle for every time I got into trouble with mules because we came across an elephant. 😜

[@elenacaddell3639]

I love both. Use them both . I do believe they can do mountains ( very rocky stoney ) trails. Less Lameness and hoof issues. 😊

[@christianwitness]

My papaw farmed for about 65 yeats and prefered mules. He said they were stronger pound for pound, they wouldn't founder themselves with excess food or water. He said mules were smarter but may get their feelings hurt and require "handling" not whipping...

[@CliffGray]

Sounds about right! 👍

[@maryschaefer5691]

Well done thank you. One of the first things I tell someone new to horses is that they don't really have common sense. Mules definitely seem to come out on top in that regard

[@alberta1980]

One downside to mules is their goddamn neck is so strong, like three horse necks put together. If they haven’t been been halter broke properly and learn to brace and pull, you’ll never get that out of them. Most guys that worked colts and mules will know what I’m talking about.

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya. The reality on mules is that an adult rank one can be almost impossible to deal with. “Mule strength” 😜

[@K9River]

I've seen a couple lines of labs that are throwing aggressive dogs. The smaller, more active ones. Food aggression specifically. I don't know if if that's a widespread problem, though .

[@burtvincent1278]

Your appraisal is very true. Mules are smarter, tougher and more dangerous.

[@CliffGray]

yep! thanks Burt

[@andreoliveira685]

Here in Brasil there's a huge tradition of breeding mules. Some people breed foxtrotting and smoother gait mules from mangalarga horses. Smart brasilians love mules. My great-grandfather mapped parts of the country on mules. This animal helped build this country big time.

[@queenkoi]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I appreciate being able to hear it from someone with a history with the animals.

[@joypolk3093]

Subscribed, like your info , looking forward to listening to your other videos

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Joy!

[@mushercdn]

Really interesting. I know nothing about horses/mules. Hybrid vigour is also true with dogs. Alaskans beat siberians any day/all day. Thanks for the video and the knowledge.

[@CliffGray]

👍 yes, I’m sure there are a lot of analogies with dogs

[@emanarfarm3736]

Great story, man! Brings back great memories, although some of the words you use are new to me, had to look em up.

[@CliffGray]

glad you enjoyed it! thanks

[@phillipcoiner4232]

Hi Cliff Another top notch video. Your experience and knowledge are the gold standard as far as I'm concerned. I agree with everything you say in the video absolutely spot on. You missed a critical point when it comes to riding mules and is likely why you ride horses....the wide up front hurting your knees speaks to this but needs a little more elaboration. This has to do with mule physiology as you brought up. The mule gets its front end and sure footedness from the donkey as everyone agrees.. If you look at the donkey's withers the scapula motion is up and down for lack of a better description a piston motion. (Nod to Steve Edwards Queen Valley Mule Ranch...A great mule guy he may or may not be full of it when it comes to other mule knowledge but he is dead right in this regard ) A horse's scapula moves back and forth NOT UP AND DOWN. This lets your horse saddle fit tight around the withers and the saddle can stay in place better being tighter it doesn't want to slide back going up hill or work forward going down. And even thought it fits tight it rarely bothers the horse's withers. You have to have a different saddles for a mule with wider bars around the withers even the pack saddles. (unless you are from the 1700s and still use saw bucks but even a saw buck would work better for a mule with wider front.) (When I was in the army the instructors would stomp three times if a particular point was going to be on the test consider this my three stomps). This is why mule riders use britchens (I'm not a crupper guy whole nuther topic) and care so much about their breast collars as you alluded to. Also like you said you have be able to ride and know when things are getting wonky on your donkey helps tremendously. If you don't know this first thing you do is run out and buy a horse saddle with wither pinching bars and throw it on a mule. Well things go only down hill from there on out. Now you are never going to get the correct performance from your mule and in the case of a lot of mules you are going to cause permanent damage to their scapula/front end. Granted here are some mules that have horsey type withers that a horse saddle won't cause permanent damage. But this still does not make them a horse or give them a back and forth motion in their scapula. I have two with horsey withers but my third would be on the DL after a couple of rides assuming she didn't let you off gently against a tree whilst she rested her aching back. This can be seen on an ultra sound if you take them to someone with the scientific learnin. I know a lady vet at CSU in Fort Collins. I live in Colorado but most high end horse vets can do this. (You might need a to take out a loan before you go these folks don't work cheap.) So before you buy a mule for riding that has worked hard on a ranch or packing an ultrasound of his/her/ze/they/them withers is de rigueur before you purchase said mule. If you go to most tack makers they'll tell you oh this is a horse or a mule saddle. Sorry my friends there is no such a thing as a horse saddle that is also a mule saddle or vise versa. Imagine every time you go hiking in the mountains you put on a lousy pair of boots that pinch your feet or a back pack that pinches your scapula is a better analogy. You would leave it beside the trail after a few miles and pick it up on the way out to the nearest dumpster. This is a yuuuge problem for people that want the advantages of mules without realizing the difference in physiology of a mule. Mules can give you better performance in a lot of scenarios but you have to have mule tack and of course all the other stuff you went over. As Joe Biden would say three words, "horse tack is not mule tack". I can't wait for the next video keep em coming. If you are ever over on the front range (Pueblo) let me know we'll go for a mule ride. When they are hitting on cylinders there is no better ride up to the nose bleed seats.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks a ton for all the additional info, for me and the other folks watching. As Joe Biden would say three words, "horse tack is not mule tack". - HAHAH! I'd love to go riding with you someday. thanks

[@vanveen8472]

you forgot to mention that mules have a sense of humor, least the one I had did, great video, thanks

[@CliffGray]

Yes they do 👍

[@OLskewL]

Came here to find out about Mules after reading that King David gave order to have his son, Solomon, ride on the Kings mule as he proceeds to succeed the throne. I must say I enjoyed this video! Bless you.

[@johnathancraig14]

Super interesting takes thank you for the insight into your world. The story of Abe was just epic

[@CliffGray]

thanks man! glad you enjoyed the story.

[@jamesmooney5348]

Thick or stocky mountain horses are so very beautiful! But it seems packers like to find older horses. Young horses, spunky horses, high headed horses, to me, are dangerous, when working certain situation. And it can happen so quickly. Did you ever run mares? Or studs? I wouldn't want either. Each have their own personality. When I was little, my Grandpa had a nice thick mountain horse. He kinda looked like a quarter horse, but didnt- if that makes since. That horse could be a real "A" hole, if he knew he could get away with it. He was pretty intelligent. When calves would begin to fall back from the herd, while driving them, he would nip'm on the back and calves would run back up into the herd. He seemed to hate cows, but still did his job when ridden by a competent rider. Yep, though's were the days....

[@CliffGray]

Haha! Yes, gentle is king in the mountains. Particularly for dude horses. So you do see a lot of older/calming riding horses. You also see docile draft horse breeds crossed into them. I tried to run almost 100% geldings. Mules get really attached to mares, in a motherly way. It causes all sorts of issues when you have 40-50 of them. 👍

[@alberta1980]

There ain’t nothing wrong with mares. I’ll take my tried and true Mountain mare over any gelding. Saved my life more times than I can count. She’s getting close to retirement now and I shall give her a royal retirement life.

[@TheBowhunterinNB]

I hunt with my young kids or my old dad. So I am the mule . Hahah I am enjoying your videos , keep them coming

[@CliffGray]

Bwhaha that happens! 👍

[@danishsailing4630]

I love mules. I rode them for years. I was a packer in the Sierras and a wrangler at the Grand Canyon when I was younger. They're great animals.

[@CliffGray]

sounds like you have some adventures!

[@danishsailing4630]

@@CliffGray I remember at the Grand Canyon in the fall and winter after it would freeze, there would be little glaciers in the shady parts of the switchbacks on the trail. The ice was as slick as glass and would cover 15 or a 20 foot section of the trail. The hikers would play hell trying to get across them. Unless they had crampons on their shoes. If they didn't have cleats on their shoes they would just slide back down to the bottom of the ice. Our mules with winter shoes would just walk up the ice like it was nothing. And the hikers would just sit there and give us dirty looks as we went on past them.

[@CliffGray]

@@danishsailing4630 haha! you should have videoed that! 👍

[@mikeblackford994]

Road a mule for years in N. Idaho and NW Montana. She was great

[@CliffGray]

👍 if I could always find a good one, that’s the only thing I would ride

[@chuck4abuck1]

From a distance Watch a mule carrying three little girls on country road one evening. Several wild/rogue dogs came out of a thicket and attacked the mule he tried to move around and avoid the attacking dogs but eventually the girls fell from his back . And the dogs tore into the little girls . Before i could make the distance on foot to help. The mule had turned and ran back into the fight . He wasnt leaving his herd ( the girls ) . It was nasty really nasty . The power he displayed was unbelievable. I forever knew horses and mules are not the same .

[@CliffGray]

That is wild! They are amazing guard animals, particular ones more so than others. I bet that was a sight to see!

[@missourimongoose8858]

I would love to hear the history of mules in medieval combat all the way up to ww2, and I'd also like to know if there is any difference between a mule and a horse being trained to be able to shoot on for combat because I've been in combat and I think I'd take one of those pointy eared horse goats over a regular horse for sure lol

[@hanknmosul]

ever heard of Google? Get Google on the screen, and type in "history of mules in medieval combat". There's your background, then recall you didn't ride a horse or a mule in combat. Inconvenient, isn't it?

[@parkerbrown-nesbit1747]

There's a guy on KZbin who has actually trained a mule for combat. Unfortunately, his name has escaped me.

[@Penelope642]

My dad had mules. He did a lot of work getting them trained to walk in the mountains and over rivers. They were so calming. He’d let us ride them by ourselves.

[@traceymiller2038]

I hear you and agree for the most But my theory is horses for the most part sadly are brought up been reared for decades now .... 1s taken from mom way too early 2nd grow up on flat easy safe secure paddocks 3rd often even without adiquite other fellow social needs So I find horses that have had what I call a normal start have great social skills as have had mom for a good long length of time as of a herd as of big area of growing up in with all sorts of terrain.... up down rocks trees bushes thorns critters water the more variety the better... These horse think they know Horses like THB poor horses what a horrific life know only flat solid ground Yet having said that I have had thbs turn into what we nicknamed mountain goats and though their knees knocked and weakend at the first sight of a dam of a steep decline etc they soon worked it all out and I have enjoyed many many hrs out in the hills and valleys of Christon bank mazoe

[@elderhollowfarm7043]

I love my mule, Handsome Jack but I also have horses. Love them all. Jack has a wonderful personality.

[@ds1752]

Great video with lots of information 👍🏻

[@CliffGray]

Thanks!

[@parkerbrown-nesbit1747]

I love both horses and mules. I always say that mules aren't stubborn; they're self preservationists. Not everyone understands that. I worked with a mule who was fine around women, but absolutely hated men. She would look for an opportunity to bite, kick, step on, etc. any of our male barn crew.

[@daviddickson5664]

I’ve been riding and packing my mules for several years now, I’ll take a good mule over a horse every day, but it takes time and patience for both mule and rider to trust each other. The rider won’t force the mule into a sketchy situation and the mule won’t go where the rider might get hurt. It’s a cool relationship.

[@danwallach8826]

Great stuff! I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience!

[@TheLittlePalletFarmhouse]

whats your thoughts on mules for skidding logs? The original shetland ponies were used down coal mines in the UK for hauling, much like the donkeys in egypt for cart loads of bricks and i've considered both for the applicaton we are looking at ( a small home run logging team for a portable saw mill) - interested on your thoughts?

[@jackpinesavage9806]

At the end of a guided 'horseback' hunt, I asked the Outfitter why they don't can the horses for the French meat market and go to all mules. He said some people think they have to ride a horse on a horse back hunt........

[@CliffGray]

hahahaha, there is a lot of truth to that!

[@jeroenvandenbossche4699]

hello from Belgium! Good sir, you just answered me a question, that I didnt even realise I had. I have nothing to do with hunting or trailing in the mountains. I am for one thing really interested in history. Thank you for your highly educational video!

[@CliffGray]

thanks for watching! glad it was helpful

[@gordonwells1626]

Great information, well explained from experience. Thanks.

[@CliffGray]

thanks Gordan!

[@richardrubert1359]

I don't know where you get your horses. In sixty years of taking horses into the back country of Washington, Idaho & Montana - riding & packing - and can count on one hand the issues I have had. I have taken some mules, which were fine, but not spectacular. Our horses are raised on our ranch, which is not flat, and they are as capable as any of the mules we used. Just my opinion and experience.

[@vincentstouter449]

How do donkeys figure into the mix? Donkeys come in all sizes and are intelligent, aware, and courageous, which is why many livestock operations utilize them as herd/flock guardians. They will not suffer snakes or canids. In Africa, they regularly take on and kill hyenas, a formidable predator.

[@CliffGray]

I wish I would have talked about the ability for donkeys/mules to be great guard animals. I’ve seen that in action and it’s no joke! I believe donkeys aren’t very common as pack animals in the West because you lose the ride/pack combo potential - most folks are just too big to ride donkeys. They also have a much shorter stride than horses so it’s hard to combine the two in pack strings 👍

[@-whackd]

I think an ebike with 100km+ battery and some flexible solar PV might be cheaper and less work for me. Can add a small trailer or just carry stuff out on the back racks

[@CliffGray]

not a bad setup! can't kick you and dont have to feed it!

[@vincethewoodlander]

Problem with mules is: good ones may be expensive or priceless, bad ones are hardly worth dog food, and all can be smarter than the rider/packer. I love riding a good one though.

[@CliffGray]

This can be very true. A good source of mules is hard to find. 👍

[@littlebrookreader949]

I loved this talk. Really great. Thanks!

[@CliffGray]

Glad you enjoyed it! thanks

[@johnyikes7586]

You are an excellent communicator.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks John, really appreciate it. I'm working on it

[@GeorgeSemel]

Wel a Mule was good enough for Festus Hagen so this has been decided a long time ago. Now for those of you in Rio Linda, who was Festus Hagen? I wish in retirement I could afford a classic pack trip for Elk or even a bit of trout fishing in the back country. I got screwed in retirement.

[@flindersmj]

Cliff, would you be so kind to list the links to the other packing videos that you referenced here? I love learning from your experiences. Thanks

[@CliffGray]

A bunch of horse/mule related videos are on this playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLJVWcO28moDTVUjfwEsQEtjK3U-cxIoEw I’m going to do a handful of new ones this summer and fall 👍

[@TreDeuce-qw3kv]

Amazing amount of science and experienced based information in this post....👍👍

[@jondoe4667]

I've never been on a mule, and I'm no horse expert. I've probably only been on maybe 5 horses. A friend who does keep mules told me basically the same thing though. Mules have more of a self preservation instinct and are careful to not hurt themselves. So as long as you stay on the mule you will most likely be safe.

[@jannamorris3066]

So right on. I own both and like both.

[@CliffGray]

thanks!

[@DreamcastQ]

Mules are the true "workhorse"!

[@toniedalton5448]

I always had horses. Now I wnt to try a mule. I have a TWH mare, just bought me a donkey stud. Hoping for a baited mule. We will ses. I know my jack is sweet tempered and he tle. So far doing good with my cattle. Gonna wait til end of March to let him I. With the mare. Praying g this time ne,t year to see my mare bagging up !

[@evedillingham6847]

The guide for my ride in the Grand Canyon said the mule’s eyes can see all four of their feet, while a horse can only see the front two. This allows mules to intentionally place their feet and why they’re preferred for canyon trail riding. It sounded like a sensible explanation. Can anyone corroborate it? My dad was a cowboy as a young man, and he said a mule was smarter than a horse. it would not run on unsafe ground, could detect dangerous conditions, like rattlesnakes, etc., and I believe he would have agreed with you.

[@mikeblackford994]

Had 5 mules. Rode one of them. Learned to trust thier instincts. Each one had a very pronounced personality. Amazing animals if animals is the the correct term.