Mules Are WAY BETTER THAN HORSES - An Outfitter's Perspective

I'm guessing even the Mongols were debating the merits of mules vs horse, on the pack animal and riding animal fronts. For anyone thinking about getting into wilderness horse or mule packing packing for elk hunting and mule deer hunting, this video is for you.
In this video, I give the perspective of an outfitter. Mules and horses are very similar and it really comes down to the individual animals. However, I do prefer mules for a bunch of reasons I discuss in this video. I also talk about why many folks choose horses over mules.
00:00 - Intro
01:40 - Ligers/Mules and Hybrid Vigor
02:15 - Longevity
03:10 - Intelligence
04:40 - Self Preservation
5:10 - Trail Savviness
5:50 - Story of Abe
10:45 - Saving My Knees
11:15 - The Mule Downsides
12:45 - Physical Differences
14:50 - Riding Into A Storm
#horses #mules #elkhunting #muledeerhunting #backpackhunting #adventure #selfreliance #pursuitwithcliff
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[@outinthesticks1035]

Years back I knew a dentist, who wanted to start breeding race horses . He bought a bunch of high priced mares , and a very highly rated stud . Raised a couple crops of foals , paid lots of money for trainers . Then his neighbor brought home a donkey jack . Couple weeks the jack turned up in the horse pasture, her said no problem , the stud will keep it away from the mares . Next spring one of the mares threw a colt , 39 threw mules . To say he was pissed is a understatement. Next fall he found out the Packers in the mountains would pay more for a weaned mule than he was getting for started thoroughbreds . He sold his stud and bought a mammoth jack

[@CliffGray]

HAHA! great story man. Love it

[@The.Good.Place.]

Love it

[@kristinabaade2343]

That is the BEST story! LOL Jacks rock!

[@OneGold_777]

I took a mule into the back country this year, snow, downed trees and treacherous terrain the whole time. He was unbelievably intelligent and I often gave up the reigns so he could choose our path through deadfall and snow, no surer footed an animal had I seen. My hunt partner had a mustang and quarter horse that were constantly stumbling and had less concern about their own safety which was not a good thing. If you're a barbarian who pushes life about then a horse is for you, sensitivity is what is needed for a mule and you will be rewarded with safe travel and great companionship

[@CliffGray]

Lots of truth here. Love this comment. Thanks 👍

[@JamesBond-so1of]

@@CliffGray I've owned over a hundred horses and half a dozen or so mules and I can't say as I have much use for a mule personally I just could never get along with them never did any packing in but using them in harness and riding them I'll stick with horses

[@donjones4719]

In Chile back c.1800 they had a saying, "Don't choose the strongest mule but the one who reasons best." Pack trains went up into the Andes on some pretty sketchy roads and on even sketchier wooden bridges. The muleteers wouldn't go onto a bridge a mule refused to cross. Well, that's what a European traveler recorded back then. (Alexander Humboldt.)

[@yourdady83]

You stupid f*** y** have to have horses to make mules get over it

[@CliffGray]

@@donjones4719 love it! I don't know that I'd cross a bridge if they were looking at it with second thoughts! haha!

[@montanalife6616]

I grew up with horses, but was introduced to mules 30+ years ago when I worked for an outfitter. I now have 3 mules for every horse. One thing you didn't mention is the fact that mules mother's were a horse. I keep a good mountain horse in my string because, while the mule is smarter, it will always worship the horse and stick close and follow. Find a good mountain horse and lead your string or your riding mules with the horse. This is the natural pecking order. If your horse is reliable and never leaves camp your mules will stay with the horse. For better or worse, the mule worships the horse and will always stick close to your good mountain horse.

[@CliffGray]

Totally agree. If I could roam the mountains for the rest of my life I’d have one Mare and 3 mules. A good mare that will stay in camp will keep a whole heard of mules there!

[@fosterfarm9933]

@@CliffGray @Montana Life amen to that

[@mangum3006]

I manage the mules in the grand canyon, love mules have personally owed great ones that I could do anything I could do on a horse. But I've owned horses better than them. However we run our mules on the desert in the winter on a 20 square mile blm grazing permit and a couple easy to catch mares makes a round up a breeze.

[@npalmi88]

Omg, did you just judge ALL mules?! You can’t judge ALL mules based on verifiable life experience. That’s speciesist!!! Just kidding

[@CliffGray]

@@mangum3006 that is awesome. You know it's interesting when I saw the mules in the canyon. It appeared to me that you guys pack with panniers and box hitches (this is what I saw in the pictures on the info plaques). Almost identical to how we packed in the Flat Tops. Almost identical decker rigs, pad setup, etc... I'm guessing that somewhere back in the lineage of packers at the canyon and the Colorado wildernesses there was some cross over of individuals.

[@raywhitehead730]

My Grandfather, always owned a mule , to work with in his ranch /farm in Texas. He said they were more intelligent, and steady in their work. Though he was not poor and could afford any tractor he wanted, And he always had a tractor, he always plowed the family garden with a mule. in 1970 he died age 90, in the garden, behind the mule he was plowing with. The mule was found still standing and still waiting for his command.

[@CliffGray]

that is an epic story! your grandpa was a true Mule man. thanks for sharing Ray!

[@raywhitehead730]

My grandmother found him when he didn't come in for lunch, and she went to the porch to call him in. She became suspicious when she saw the mule just standing there, with the plow hooked up, in the field .

[@CliffGray]

@@raywhitehead730 well hey, there are a lot of worse ways to go. he got out of here while gardening... I can only hope for an exit like that... breathing fresh air, outside of a hospital.

[@edgratz3425]

I hunted in Idaho with an outfitter that had mules instead of horses. He told me that the mule was less likely to slip and fall off the side of the mountain with me on his back. He also said mules were much less likely to rear and buck if they saw a snake and throw me off the side of the mountain. Although ornery and stubborn, I was ok with riding a mule for the rest of the trip. The mule was ornery and stubborn, too.

[@CliffGray]

good mules are for sure a bit better in the trail environment! sounds like you had an adventure!

[@bartb21]

Well said, Mules are not for everyone, but they have super cool personality and it is a beautiful thing in rough country to give them the reins and watch their feet do the work.

[@CliffGray]

for sure!

[@alberta1980]

Mules are tough as nails, eat less, work harder, rarely get sick, have more stamina, better footing, smarter and more thinking, and have rock hard feet.

[@CliffGray]

Pretty much 👍👍👍

[@johnsimonelli9988]

I have had the opportunity to ride horses and work with mules on guided hunts and listening to you describe them is spot on and educational. Thank you.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks John!

[@fourdogstoveco]

I have worked mules for over fifty years. Never could get along with horses. Worked my first mule when I was eight years old. Been in love ever since. All the good things they say are true, all the bad things they say are true. Always got my best mules out of Kentucky or Tennessee. The reason being in my opinion is they have a mule tradition and culture. They know mules. Watching your video, I think is the best I've seen of what makes them different and who should have one or not. Thank you for that info to the equine world by someone that has been there and done that.

[@CliffGray]

really appreciate the positive feedback! totally agree that some places have a great mule culture, and that is where folks should get their mules.

[@mulepowerforge]

My mule is perfect. You couldn’t ask for better. She’s very intelligent, safe, and awesome to ride. I actually won’t go on pack trips or anywhere for that matter without her. She’s got good behavior with other animals and people, and is very gentle and tolerant of everything. She’s like the exact opposite of the stereotypical mule. She’s also really funny and tries to follow me everywhere. Always wants scratches and ear rubs. She’s my best friend. 🙂 I think we have that human animal bond cause she much prefers me over anyone else, you can tell she gets uncomfortable when other people start doing stuff with her. I guess it comes from doing everything together for years. I wouldn’t trade her for anything.

[@CliffGray]

That’s awesome. Nothing like a mule that puts their head down so you can rub the back of those big ears! 👍

[@katr8756]

@@CliffGray Or the "inside"of those ears! Had a mule that eventually loved having her ears scratched on the inside. A young mule I bought from slaughter. She was sort of a handfull to begin with, as she had never been messed with, but she had a pretty good disposition, and kind eyes. She had the prettiest head for a mule I'd seen in a while. Almost like the head of a horse. ... She became a great saddle, and wagon mule!!

[@reb1050]

Although I have never owned a mule, I agree with everything you have said about them. My wife and I used to trail ride quite a bit and it was usually in mountainous terrain. We rode Missouri Fox Trotters and they were bred for their gait and stamina in mountainous terrain.. We often rode with others and some of them had mules. I remember, more than once, someone would say I needed to get a mule. My usual answer was "I have a mule headed horse. Isn't that enough?" But deep down, I always admired a good trail riding gaited mule. One group of people we rode with referred to themselves as the "Over The Hill Gang". They were all 60 yrs. old or older. One of the group started telling my wife and I about this mule he had for sale. He always commented about how smooth it was and it's "running walk" gait. But every time he talked about it, others would chuckle. I finally asked why and another member said that he was correct...the mule did have a running walk. It would throw your azz off, run away, and make you walk home. Great video and very informative. ^5

[@CliffGray]

Bwhaha! I’ve known a couple mules like that

[@miker794]

Great story and thanks for sharing your experiences. Old guy tells me that everyone should train 20 donkeys to pack first. If you actually get this done you get to train 20 Mules to ride and pack. Then if you survive this you get to train a horse. There would be no bad horse trainers !!!

[@CliffGray]

Bwhaha! There is some truth to that, I’m sure!

[@valrenanelson5507]

Would be a great horse trainer because nobody on this earth could possibly have more patience. And patience is KEY!

[@savageater57]

There is a. Small town in the county where I live that was for many decades called mule town. This was where , prior to the common use of tractors ,everyone in the Eastern part of the state you came for a mule . Eventually the business switched over to the automobile . The backside of the building still has the sign , Pamplico Mule Co .

[@CliffGray]

thats cool!

[@jawnTem]

I started ridding the trails solo with a horse before going with a mule and I doubt that I will ever go back to the horse. Ganted, they are more aesthetic, especially at a full run with their main and tail flying in the wind but a mule carries their own beauty. Riding a mule has given me a pretty good perspective on their differences. I eventually went on a "Trail Rides" which involved other riders on horse back, and got a fair share of ribbing. One time I'd had enough and when someone at the fire asked me why I preferred a mule over a horse saying they were stubborn, hard to train, and not as smart as a horse. I replied, well they just have a different mentality. Take a horse that you want to cross a stream. You can take a crop to the backside of a horse and it understands the issue of crossing the stream. Take a crop to a mule and crossing the stream is no longer the issue, you are. Now, which is smarter. By the way, I've trained my mule to ride inside of a minivan, walk on her back legs, (I have a photo of her standing on one leg in a turn), got her mulit-gaited by voice, one of them I call "pronging" (basically what African Springbocks do when they do the, Peppy Le Peu gait), along with the normal stuff, like lay down, roll over, sit, etc. I wish we had come across you in our travels as I would really love to sit and chat with you about stuff. One of the things that I've never heard mention is their eating preferences. I was riding with a girl from Germany and her mule would grab stuff off the trail and act like it was the cats-meow. Lol! When my mule got to the same stuff she she grabbed a mouthful and couldn't spit it out fast enough. In the desert, I saw her John mule bite off a short limb of a Joshua Tree and just as carefully turn the thing around in his mouth so that the spines would travel down his throat in the correct direction.

[@CliffGray]

love you insight! To see a mule in a minivan - now that would be awesome. Really appreciate the comment. Thanks

[@lockgessner]

Last season was first with stock, took two mares and a mule in, mule was a last minute thing and out of my 7 horses shes one of 2-3 that have 100% made the cut. She will die with me… I will never go in the back country without a mule like her again, she absolutely will not tolerate unwanted visitors and wakes you up with plenty of time to prepare. She also packed a very respectable pack of elk out and never once complained even when her saddle rolled. Looking more for this season.

[@CliffGray]

that's awesome. I didn't hit on that in the video but mules can be crazy good guard animals. I have seen them beat the hell out of dogs, run off coyotes, etc...

[@jgarlito82]

That’s so cool 😂

[@vikingskuld]

My grandpa on my mom's side loved mules. He grew up using them and horses. He didn't care for horses but mules were the best thing in the world to him. I never used one but grew up riding horses and can't say I'm real fond of them lol. I always thought it was quite the impression they made on my grandfather as he lived in town and never owned another one in my life time yet he always talked about how much he loved them. Thank you for the video you got a new subscriber. This is the first video of yours I have seen.

[@CliffGray]

welcome. awesome story about your grandpa, too. Not too uncommon for folks to really develop a passion for mules.

[@3PercentNeanderhal]

My Eastern Kentucky great grandfather and his brothers used mules and their big ears as lookouts for their shine stills. They were,along with transport, an early warning system against government agents.

[@CliffGray]

hahahah, i love it! those big ears are an asset!

[@3PercentNeanderhal]

@@CliffGray mules are better than horses in some areas, they’re certainly smarter. Donkeys beat out both imo…personal experience we have all three on the farm.

[@CliffGray]

@@3PercentNeanderhal one of these days, I'll have to get some experience with donkeys!

[@muleskinner485]

Thanks Cliff, you are so spot-on, i have had to explain this time and again to others, . I was born and raised Amish so i grew-up with both, hunted elk at both ends of Colo. with my own pack-mules, finely quit 7-8 years ago, in the mtns. mules just do everything easier and cheaper, better than a horse............

[@CliffGray]

pretty much! Some of my best crew and close friends, to this day, are Amish folks or guys that grew up Amish. Phenomenal with livestock.

[@feliciacoffey6832]

This was the most interesting, information -packed video I've ever seen!!! Love mules, love the stories, love the info. Subscribed!!!

[@thomaswaddell9012]

My dad was a mule skinner during WWll. Actually he was Sgt saddler. He loved those government mules. Told me lots of tales of them. His favorite was a story about taking them in a pack train all the way up Pikes Peak. He was in a mounted artillary unit. 75mm and 37mm pack guns. Ive had horses and rode a few mules but never had one. I liked them a lot.

[@brendaandjohn1416]

John Altenhoff Sr. ( Dad) owned a gas station garage on cripple creek around then I believe. Was a CPO in the Coast Guard.

[@CliffGray]

that's awesome! i bet he had some epic stories

[@kentpaulhamus2158]

I knew two people who used a mule to drag logs out of mountain land. This mule was harnessed to a log and pulled it over the crest of a hill and when the log started down the hill, it started sliding on its own, running into the mule and dragging it down the hill. At the bottom, the log was wrapped around the harness and the mule was pinned along side the log upside-down with it's feet in the air. It calmly laid there while they cut the harness to free the mule. They said a horse would have kicked and thrashed around until it would have either broke loose from the harness or hurt itself.

[@CliffGray]

wild story! some truth to that for sure... but still that is a great mule it sounds like!

[@kentpaulhamus2158]

@@CliffGray The two guys actually did pull logs out with a mule and did have a mishap pulling one down hill. This was a bar room story and may have gotten parts of it refined and stretched.

[@AndreaDingbatt]

@@kentpaulhamus2158 One of those men, was my Gramps, and Every word is True!! The real Jack-Ass was the Idiot who forgot to use a quick release between harness and the logs ~ and wanted to hurry up get dry,fed and rested, so he slightly overloaded it, for the wet conditions!! Gramps fired That wrangler/farmhand, on the spot, and rightly so!! ~My Nan knocked a few of this blokes front teeth out, when he went to get his things from the house, she bred and trained all the horses and mules and that tough little Lady couldnt stand "Foolishness that gets animals hurt!"!! He was a bit bruised n sore, with a couple of little nicks n scrapes, Ive still got a photo of my Nan stood with him,my Dad on his back!!

[@kentpaulhamus2158]

@@AndreaDingbatt Maybe you know of a similar mishap but the story I told was from two brothers, Kenny & Denny Diehl up Pine Creek mountain area in Pennsylvania. Nobody lost their teeth or got fired in this instance but the mule had an exciting ride down the hill!

[@Billybootski]

Buddy, this is absolutely unbelievable. My wife and I had a horse a few years ago named Pallandin. That horse you were brushing is an absolutely dead ringer. We just couldn't stop staring at it. God, what are the odds? By the way, I loved the entire video and now I'm subscribed.

[@CliffGray]

Haha! That’s cool. That was a great horse. His name was Rebel. Thanks for subscribing 👍

[@sidilicious11]

I lead pack donkeys for 3 summers and noticed how much they were thinkers compared to horses. They were suefooted but we did have 2 fall off steep trails. They lived through it and could pack again after a day or two of rest.

[@milo555100]

My wife and I enjoyed this. We keep three horses at home but have had little exposure to mules. This is very interesting. Enjoyable listening to ya. Thank you Cliff.

[@dexterrr9163]

you can talk about anything and i can hear it for hours bro. great stuff love from mongolia, we use horses frequently for rugged places. Quality knowledge

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Dex! I'd love to get out to Mongolia one of these days.

[@realluckysgirl]

I always had horses .....my only regret was not breeding my excellent mare back to a donkey..... I took a mule ride in Yosemite. Mules are incredibly smart. Sure footed, not one stumble. They are better trail partners IF you are smart enough for them. Be fair, do not ask them to hurt themselves, don't use ill fitting tack......horses, sadly, put up with way too much, from ppl who do not deserve them...100% right!

[@CliffGray]

lots of truth there! thanks for the comment

[@davidbedell3062]

Totally agree. I packed for 12 years in the Sierra Nevada in California. We exclusively packed mules and rode some. We had 75 head of horses and mules. Your analysis is spot on. Thanks for bringing back some great memories. Do you have videos on the pluses of various pack equipment types and hitches?

[@CliffGray]

Thanks David! Glad you enjoyed the video and it brought back some good memories. Not a lot of pack videos but I plan on doing some this coming Summer/Fall.

[@brycehess6708]

Ive been running packbgoats for around 11 years and got a 2 yr old mule a year ago..this last weekend i rode him for the first time 👍...he learns and has the same personality as my oldest pack goats...horses seam like a different animal to me (my wife has ) and i just havent connected with her like i did the mule

[@Hosstache]

There is nothing harder than putting down a loved animal you’re self. Thanks for sharing.

[@CliffGray]

So true! thanks

[@mark97301]

I owned and operated a pack station in the eastern sierra for 25 years. I got asked this question all the time. Your explanation was so spot on to what I used to tell people it was uncanny. The only difference is sometimes I would say “ mules are great as long as you don’t treat them like a horse “. Great video thanks

[@queenkoi]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I appreciate being able to hear it from someone with a history with the animals.

[@puma1304]

mules are incredible animals, tough and smart! during my childhood in the southern Andes I learned to appreciate their carrying capacity (so huge loads!) and their sure feet! I always felt secure riding on them through those narrow, winding mountain paths, also in deep snow! I would never have changed them for a horse.

[@CliffGray]

Sounds like you have been on some adventures with mules! the Andes would be fun

[@raywhitehead730]

"Mules Days" in May, in Bishop, California. Great if you can make it. Look it up.

[@scottkakos4236]

You’re spot on. I packed draft crosses for years and only rode horses. I have a friend in Wyoming that’s a retired outfitter and I rode with him about 10 years ago. I rode one of his mules and have been riding them ever since. I did buy and nice two year old mare this year but only to breed her to get more mules. Really like your videos and hope to do a sheep hunt with you guys some year.

[@johnathancraig14]

Super interesting takes thank you for the insight into your world. The story of Abe was just epic

[@CliffGray]

thanks man! glad you enjoyed the story.

[@emanarfarm3736]

Great story, man! Brings back great memories, although some of the words you use are new to me, had to look em up.

[@CliffGray]

glad you enjoyed it! thanks

[@IntenseAngler]

Awesome video Cliff! Man, every subject that you cover is always so well done, backed by experience, spot on, and just as plain ol' entertaining as it gets! That story about Abe was incredibly vivid... could practically see it happening. I can only imagine what that must have been like firsthand! Anyhow, thanks as always for sharing your knowledge, stories, and insights brother!

[@CliffGray]

thanks man! really appreciate the support

[@IntenseAngler]

@@CliffGray It's a pleasure man! 👍

[@danwallach8826]

Great stuff! I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience!

[@joypolk3093]

Subscribed, like your info , looking forward to listening to your other videos

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Joy!

[@mrgeorgejetson]

"...there are these mules that are just dickhead outliers..." Actual LOL. Nearly spit my drink all over my laptop screen. Also, I found the Abe story really funny and also very moving. You're a good story teller, Cliff.

[@CliffGray]

thanks Alex!

[@mikewyd53]

I grew up with horses and have only had one mule. I bought her very cheap, $100, because she was a problem. She had been treated pretty rough and did not like or trust people. I realized right away she did not want to be ridden, so I only packed her. She turned out to be the best friend in the mountains a guy could ever have. I never had to lead her, where I went she went. If the weather or darkness made it hard to tell where we were going, I told her to go ahead. She would go out around me and the string and lead us back to camp or to the game we were packing out. I loved that mule.

[@phillipcoiner4232]

Check out my post above to see why she didn't like anyone riding her.

[@CliffGray]

I love it man! that's what they say, right? Everyman should get a one great woman, one great dog and one great mule in his life. Sounds like you got your mule!

[@gordonwells1626]

Great information, well explained from experience. Thanks.

[@CliffGray]

thanks Gordan!

[@rogerramjet7567]

Cliff, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve had a couple of rodeo’s packing into the back country. Pack horses spook and we spend the rest of the day picking up scattered items and repacking. 😢

[@joeambaye8681]

I knew very little about horses vs mules but now I do. Cheers🍺 from London, England.

[@CliffGray]

cheers Joe! thanks

[@swalt59]

As a backpack hunter I would love to have a mule. I couldn’t imagine how much stuff 10-12 mules could bring. Like RV camping in the backcountry

[@CliffGray]

Yeah, it's a bunch of stuff. Hahaha, 10-12 mules is a big guided camp. 3-4 wall tents, cots, etc... Nice backcountry camp!

[@seller559]

To be honest I failed with horses. They’d figure me out pretty quick. The fact that a mule is smarter puts me at a greater disadvantage. I traded them all for a Harley. Was a good decision. Great video 👍

[@CliffGray]

Nothing wrong with that! thanks

[@ellafields9424]

❤😂 There are a lot of horse Owners that should switch to a Harley!😊 I've actually told a few as much.

[@littlebrookreader949]

I loved this talk. Really great. Thanks!

[@CliffGray]

Glad you enjoyed it! thanks

[@ds1752]

Great video with lots of information 👍🏻

[@CliffGray]

Thanks!

[@jamesbohlman4297]

I logged with a team of Belgians, so I grew close to them. When riding during hunting season I had to choose my trail and start out easy. As far as an older team, I learned to shelter deck them during the winter nights.

[@davidepps9190]

I would agree Pard, I have both and they both have their strong points. One thing that you did touch on is it’s hard to get a mule to go into a wreck where you can get a horse to go into a wreck to possibly eliminate a further accident. I have cowboyed much of my life, and picked up broncs, never saw a pickup man ride a mule. This would be one example of going into a wreck, to rescue a bronc rider. Many other examples, however I do love mules as well!

[@CliffGray]

but it would be cool to have the one and only pickup mule - bwhahahah!

[@davidepps9190]

I always say a mule will leave the seen of the crime, they be like “bs, I’m out-a-here!”

[@TreDeuce-qw3kv]

Amazing amount of science and experienced based information in this post....👍👍

[@randybutler4772]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.🐴

[@michaelthoele1625]

Very cool and very informative video. Thanks for the lesson i learned a lot

[@clarencehopkins7832]

Excellent stuff bro

[@olutoki]

I don’t know why I’m watching this guy, I don’t know anything about horses or mules but he does talk with passion and knowledge

[@CliffGray]

HAHAH! well, I'm glad you are watching!

[@cadiscase]

You are a good story teller. Thanks !

[@CliffGray]

Thank you! 👍

[@OLskewL]

Came here to find out about Mules after reading that King David gave order to have his son, Solomon, ride on the Kings mule as he proceeds to succeed the throne. I must say I enjoyed this video! Bless you.

[@CliffGray]

bless you too. thanks for watching

[@elenacaddell3639]

I love both. Use them both . I do believe they can do mountains ( very rocky stoney ) trails. Less Lameness and hoof issues. 😊

[@herpderp3916]

Ligers are cool but not necessarily a good example of hybrid vigor. Their huge size actually becomes a detriment later in life, because they don't really stop growing and their size starts to become more than their organs and skeleton can handle.

[@PI-TOMCAT]

Great Video! Great Information!

[@weinerdog137]

Excellent summary.

[@johnyikes7586]

You are an excellent communicator.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks John, really appreciate it. I'm working on it

[@lydia4127]

Well said. The last little bit you said about sticky situations is the reason why as much as I have fallen in love with the big personality of a mule, I will always need at least a horse in my heard. My main competition animal right now is a mule. That intelligence is amazing. He's one that usually pees while I ride yet he understands the difference between the lap around the outside of the dressage Court and when we enter to do our test. Early-on showing dressage he peed once in a test but you could tell he was upset with himself for being unable to hold it, ever since he will stop to pee 1-3 x while we wait for the judges Bell for us to start the test, and he has never again done it well in the ring. And it helps him score better because his movement is much higher quality when he isn't doing that I have to pee waddle😂 Obviously not something I taught him, just something he understood in his high level of intelligence. Despite my extreme respect for his intelligence, I outride for many Teamsters, and it will always be better to ride my horse, because Huck will always tell me how stupid it is to get in and grab ahold of animals twice his size who are acting up🤔... have to say he is right, but him being right doesn't provide the Teamster's much assistance, so I will always have a slightly more stupid animal around😂🤷‍♀️ plus if I want to raise my next mule from the ground up, I do need a good-quality mare around.

[@jeroenvandenbossche4699]

hello from Belgium! Good sir, you just answered me a question, that I didnt even realise I had. I have nothing to do with hunting or trailing in the mountains. I am for one thing really interested in history. Thank you for your highly educational video!

[@CliffGray]

thanks for watching! glad it was helpful

[@stevesoutdoorworld4340]

Thanks for sharing the cowboy stories!

[@CliffGray]

👍 you bet

[@phillipcoiner4232]

Hi Cliff Another top notch video. Your experience and knowledge are the gold standard as far as I'm concerned. I agree with everything you say in the video absolutely spot on. You missed a critical point when it comes to riding mules and is likely why you ride horses....the wide up front hurting your knees speaks to this but needs a little more elaboration. This has to do with mule physiology as you brought up. The mule gets its front end and sure footedness from the donkey as everyone agrees.. If you look at the donkey's withers the scapula motion is up and down for lack of a better description a piston motion. (Nod to Steve Edwards Queen Valley Mule Ranch...A great mule guy he may or may not be full of it when it comes to other mule knowledge but he is dead right in this regard ) A horse's scapula moves back and forth NOT UP AND DOWN. This lets your horse saddle fit tight around the withers and the saddle can stay in place better being tighter it doesn't want to slide back going up hill or work forward going down. And even thought it fits tight it rarely bothers the horse's withers. You have to have a different saddles for a mule with wider bars around the withers even the pack saddles. (unless you are from the 1700s and still use saw bucks but even a saw buck would work better for a mule with wider front.) (When I was in the army the instructors would stomp three times if a particular point was going to be on the test consider this my three stomps). This is why mule riders use britchens (I'm not a crupper guy whole nuther topic) and care so much about their breast collars as you alluded to. Also like you said you have be able to ride and know when things are getting wonky on your donkey helps tremendously. If you don't know this first thing you do is run out and buy a horse saddle with wither pinching bars and throw it on a mule. Well things go only down hill from there on out. Now you are never going to get the correct performance from your mule and in the case of a lot of mules you are going to cause permanent damage to their scapula/front end. Granted here are some mules that have horsey type withers that a horse saddle won't cause permanent damage. But this still does not make them a horse or give them a back and forth motion in their scapula. I have two with horsey withers but my third would be on the DL after a couple of rides assuming she didn't let you off gently against a tree whilst she rested her aching back. This can be seen on an ultra sound if you take them to someone with the scientific learnin. I know a lady vet at CSU in Fort Collins. I live in Colorado but most high end horse vets can do this. (You might need a to take out a loan before you go these folks don't work cheap.) So before you buy a mule for riding that has worked hard on a ranch or packing an ultrasound of his/her/ze/they/them withers is de rigueur before you purchase said mule. If you go to most tack makers they'll tell you oh this is a horse or a mule saddle. Sorry my friends there is no such a thing as a horse saddle that is also a mule saddle or vise versa. Imagine every time you go hiking in the mountains you put on a lousy pair of boots that pinch your feet or a back pack that pinches your scapula is a better analogy. You would leave it beside the trail after a few miles and pick it up on the way out to the nearest dumpster. This is a yuuuge problem for people that want the advantages of mules without realizing the difference in physiology of a mule. Mules can give you better performance in a lot of scenarios but you have to have mule tack and of course all the other stuff you went over. As Joe Biden would say three words, "horse tack is not mule tack". I can't wait for the next video keep em coming. If you are ever over on the front range (Pueblo) let me know we'll go for a mule ride. When they are hitting on cylinders there is no better ride up to the nose bleed seats.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks a ton for all the additional info, for me and the other folks watching. As Joe Biden would say three words, "horse tack is not mule tack". - HAHAH! I'd love to go riding with you someday. thanks

[@thormusique]

Excellent video, cheers!

[@CliffGray]

thanks!

[@michaelsmith3381]

Back when I was a teenager I was lucky enough to have met and known Vern Smith. If you don’t know who Vern Smith is I highly encourage you to look him up and read some of his literature on owning and training mules. In my opinion he had more knowledge about mules than anyone. He was a great man and I am happy to have known him as a friend.

[@sheerwillsurvival2064]

Awesome man 👊🏻

[@CliffGray]

Thanks man 👊👍

[@jackallen7680]

Was just listening to your podcast with James Nash.

[@Foxhunter49]

I worked professionally with horses for over 50 years, only interacted with one pair of mules once in my life (UK) they had been roughly handled and were distrusting of people. I did get them to be more trusting of me but they were sold before I could really learn about them. I did know a man who had been a mule skinner during WW1. He had a team of 10 Spanish bred mules. He said that if they had a day off they needed re breaking the next day. He owned a great property which he bought after the first war with money his mules won him. He said that. Vehicles would get bogged down and he would get the mules to pull them out. He would use a full team on one vehicle, then eight could pull the next until he was down to a pair. Never did those mules let him down. He bred Arabians but his first love was always the mules.

[@CliffGray]

that is a great story. thanks Linda. "He said that if they had a day off they needed re breaking the next day." - hahaha, there can be some truth to that

[@MrIndyjoe]

very interesting. Thanks!

[@CliffGray]

thanks joe!

[@mikeblackford994]

Road a mule for years in N. Idaho and NW Montana. She was great

[@CliffGray]

👍 if I could always find a good one, that’s the only thing I would ride

[@jimmyyounger618]

I particularly liked the part discussing good mules vs. bad mules as it took me back to my childhood when I listened to my grandfather talk about horses and mules. Funny what sticks and what's forgotten when you're a kid, but I still recall him saying, "A good mule is a blessing and a bad one is a nightmare." The worse thing that ever happened to the reputation of mules are breeders who decided all they can do with their bad-minded, lame mare is breed it to a neighbors wicked jack in order to have something to sell. A special note to keep in mind anywhere you ride or pack mules. You're in trouble if you come into proximity with an elephant. A comical quote about the war mules in Burma, in the Mars campaign, (now known as Myanmar)... "And there were those two damned elephants someone at Regimental Headquarters picked up and brought along. A mule can get used to almost anything, but he draws the line at an animal that hangs down at both ends. Sensible, not knowing whether an elephant is coming or going, the mule is inclined to play it safe and take off, regardless of road, underbrush, leader, column, or common courtesy." Man, if I had a nickle for every time I got into trouble with mules because we came across an elephant. 😜

[@markbarber7839]

Very interesting thanks for the video

[@CliffGray]

Thanks for watching Mark! 👍

[@williampounds9180]

Good stuff . Thank you very much .

[@CliffGray]

Glad you enjoyed it. thanks for watching

[@flindersmj]

Cliff, would you be so kind to list the links to the other packing videos that you referenced here? I love learning from your experiences. Thanks

[@CliffGray]

A bunch of horse/mule related videos are on this playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLJVWcO28moDTVUjfwEsQEtjK3U-cxIoEw I’m going to do a handful of new ones this summer and fall 👍

[@mushercdn]

Really interesting. I know nothing about horses/mules. Hybrid vigour is also true with dogs. Alaskans beat siberians any day/all day. Thanks for the video and the knowledge.

[@CliffGray]

👍 yes, I’m sure there are a lot of analogies with dogs

[@nkink8471]

Haven’t even watched the video yet and I’m already fired up!!! 😂

[@CliffGray]

bwhahaha!

[@nkink8471]

@@CliffGray I ride and train Arabian horses and prefer the “under bred” working horse type Arabians. Admittedly, I don’t have any mule experience so what do I know! I will say that when people describe the difference between a horse and mule, it sounds a lot like me describing the unique characteristics of my Arabians. Happy trails!

[@MiddleOutdoorsman]

When it comes to equines, I know Jack and Schitt - and unfortunately Jack left town years ago. But, I found this video interesting and I certainly learned a few things. Now, the instant you started throwing out big words, I had to run this video by my favorite local veterinarian.... my wife. She pretty much agreed with everything you said, just used different words here or there. About the only thing she won't ever agree on, is putting animals down the old fashioned way. She'd much rather have used the blue juice. That said, she's not one of those types that get all butt hurt about it, she just has her preference. I guess Mules, in terms of intelligence, or sort of like the border collies of the equine world. Which I thought was an interesting comparison. As pack animals go, I wish we had the property to have some. I'd have gotten two or three pack goats a few years ago if i had the space. My wife calls the the "dogs of the ruminate world". I'm sure they're full of personality, probably easy to keep and feed (goats will eat most anything), maybe even make good company, but can't pack as much as other pack animals. Maybe 20 or 30 pounds tops? (edit: looks like 50-60 pounds) Although, for someone who's usually by themselves, they're probably all i'd ever need or want. About four or five years ago I ran into a guy who was running 4 pack goats, it was the coolest thing I ever saw.

[@CliffGray]

there are some folks really into pack goats. There is even a goat packing book. Someone sent me a copy. It was pretty cool. I can see how they would work well for someone wanting a more practical option. Great to hear your wife didn't tell you I was way off base! hahaha thanks for the comment

[@TheBowhunterinNB]

I hunt with my young kids or my old dad. So I am the mule . Hahah I am enjoying your videos , keep them coming

[@CliffGray]

Bwhaha that happens! 👍

[@rickzauner]

Great video, thank you

[@CliffGray]

thanks rick!

[@danishsailing4630]

I love mules. I rode them for years. I was a packer in the Sierras and a wrangler at the Grand Canyon when I was younger. They're great animals.

[@CliffGray]

sounds like you have some adventures!

[@danishsailing4630]

@@CliffGray I remember at the Grand Canyon in the fall and winter after it would freeze, there would be little glaciers in the shady parts of the switchbacks on the trail. The ice was as slick as glass and would cover 15 or a 20 foot section of the trail. The hikers would play hell trying to get across them. Unless they had crampons on their shoes. If they didn't have cleats on their shoes they would just slide back down to the bottom of the ice. Our mules with winter shoes would just walk up the ice like it was nothing. And the hikers would just sit there and give us dirty looks as we went on past them.

[@CliffGray]

@@danishsailing4630 haha! you should have videoed that! 👍

[@K9River]

I've seen a couple lines of labs that are throwing aggressive dogs. The smaller, more active ones. Food aggression specifically. I don't know if if that's a widespread problem, though .

[@alphacharlietango969]

Thanks, great story

[@CliffGray]

thanks!

[@cohenbryan8822]

Great video

[@claytondry5988]

Awesome video. I do have a question for you though. How do you feel with renting mules or horses? I went on a guide spring bear hunt in WY. I mentioned it to my guide about a particular outfit I’m going to rent from. He mention nothing but great things about the outfit. I called the outfit very helpful with all my questions and concerns. Should I pursue that outfit?

[@CliffGray]

If you have the skillset to take care of them in the mountains, renting horses/mules is a decent option. A big chunk of disaster stories you hear are from people unprepared on the horse/mule skillset front. 👍

[@vanveen8472]

you forgot to mention that mules have a sense of humor, least the one I had did, great video, thanks

[@CliffGray]

Yes they do 👍

[@honey8784]

This was great, Took me back years

[@CliffGray]

glad you enjoyed it Ken. thanks

[@Mr.Miyagi907]

Amazing vid

[@CliffGray]

thanks Gabe!

[@randydogman1274]

Can you please make a video on the different horse and donkey breeds used to create mules and which do you recommend for hunting and riding for a variety of situations like farming, transportation, pulling heavy loads etc ?

[@montanamornings8526]

Great video. I’ve owned both. I love them both.

[@CliffGray]

👍

[@jupitercyclops6521]

The most evil animal I've ever been around was a Shetland pony. Cute as a button but evil. I was on 4 yrs old but I remember that thing would bite me, throw me, shed go out of her way to cause me pain. I remember my sister's talked me into giving her an apple, so I did. She took the apple turned around, & with the apple still in her mouth, she put her weight on her front legs, jumped up & kicked me with both her back legs. I know your probably thinking I was being loud or mean or maybe this pony had a past where another small boy was mean to her. I'm here to tell you, that pony was evil. A good spirit trapped a demons soul in the body of that cute pony. The demon had to wait until the pony expired to be free. In the mean time, it was going to torture me for fun.

[@CliffGray]

@@jupitercyclops6521 i believe it. ponies can be real bastards. When I was a kid we had the same kind of thing... only reason they didn't kill us was their size!

[@rustyclam238]

Now that’s quite a story, thank you.

[@CliffGray]

glad you enjoyed it! thanks

[@dianetaillon9875]

It sounds like mules have a cat mantality and horses horses have a dog mantality lol

[@elderhollowfarm7043]

I love my mule, Handsome Jack but I also have horses. Love them all. Jack has a wonderful personality.

[@jannamorris3066]

So right on. I own both and like both.

[@CliffGray]

thanks!

[@thijsvanderham6762]

What kind of medical supplies do you carry for stock on a pack trip? And how do you treat different wounds?

[@CliffGray]

Bute, banamine (know how to use it), hoof pick, mini shoeing kit on multi day trips. Gauze, vet wrap, small chunk duct tape. Biggest thing is bute and banamine so you can get them back home where proper care can happen.

[@idahoruss6423]

Very true!👌

[@TheLittlePalletFarmhouse]

whats your thoughts on mules for skidding logs? The original shetland ponies were used down coal mines in the UK for hauling, much like the donkeys in egypt for cart loads of bricks and i've considered both for the applicaton we are looking at ( a small home run logging team for a portable saw mill) - interested on your thoughts?

[@alberta1980]

One downside to mules is their goddamn neck is so strong, like three horse necks put together. If they haven’t been been halter broke properly and learn to brace and pull, you’ll never get that out of them. Most guys that worked colts and mules will know what I’m talking about.

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya. The reality on mules is that an adult rank one can be almost impossible to deal with. “Mule strength” 😜