Multi-class Characters In AD&D

You can be a one demi-human army.
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[@PsionicCavalier]

My first ever AD&D character was a multiclass one for 2e. An Orc Fighter/Thief named Fin Bruar, who is still kicking to this day, though he does level up slowly. He is also one of my characters that got me to love AD&D and overtook 3.5e as my favorite edition.

[@MarkCMG]

Thanks for the video! We would roll the F/T multiclass HD as +4 for the fighter dice and +2 for the thief dice, added before halving. If someone went up in one but not the other, just add whatever it is based on the class. We always used class limits for non-Humans when applicable.

[@tunkatodd4539]

I cannot express enough how happy I am that there are guys that uphold the older editions in a positive light.

[@kentonkilgore317]

Hear hear! I'm a huge fan of 1e AD&D, and won't play any other versions. I tried them and didn't like them.

[@MsGorteck]

There are some things from 2nd&3rd edition that I think can incorporate well into 1st but by and large I am a HUGH fan of 1st edition.

[@MsGorteck]

Have/do you have players who play 1/2Orcs? The level limits and the rest of the party not liking them are what deterred me from playing them. So I was wondering, especially as you don't do level limits.

[@user-cx7kg6ok9b]

The old group I gamed with back in the 80s allowed multi-classing, but you could only apply xp to one class at a time, Once you leveled up in the class, you could apply xp to another single class.

[@richarddillinger8768]

When gaining Constitution as a multi-class character we only allowed it as the fighter. For example say halfling fighter/Thief with the constitution of 18 gains 4 additional hit points per fighter level to the 6th where he has attained his maximum level as fighter. From there on in every level he attains as a thief only games him 2 additional hit points.

[@kacprowski]

I read an article that tried to explain ambiguous rules and clarify other rules. One thing I liked was the multi-class got all advantages of each class. So if a fighter with CON of 18 you get plus 4 hit points every time you advance in any class. If three classes you get the weapons, gold, and other advantages for each class starting at first level. For game balance, I decided that when you get to, race class limits you can still advance with a penalty of 10% of added experience needed for the class at the race limits.

[@user-cx7kg6ok9b]

The entire reason for multiclassing was *because* demi-humans were limited in level for most classes. Multi-classing allowed them to stay inline with human characters. Removing the level limits makes them way more powerful than humans. Which is fine if that's how your group games.

[@CaptCook999]

My preference was always for multi-class characters. I played a lot of Dwarf fighter/thief and half elf characters. Our DM'S still wanted to limit character levels but agreed that most were too low, such as the half orc cleric/assassin. So we all sat down one night and made arguments and justifications and "edited" our players handbooks with the agreed upon levels. Humans were still the only race unlimited in all classes though. As to the hit points issue, most of our DM'S went with the half HPs but constitution was by class but you got it for each level. So a fighter thief would get half his d10+Con bonus as a fighter and the thief would get half his d6+Con bonus for thief class. This also eliminated the when/how do I get my constitution bonus. We also rounded up as you said. As to experience points, they all got split evenly, even bonus points for something you did, say as a Thief, since it simplified things and the experience was to the character and not the class. Some will say that a triple class character is too powerful. Perhaps at level 1/1/1 or level 1/2/2. But after that it isn't so powerful. By the time they are 2/3/3, most other characters are much higher level than they are, especially single class fighter and Thief characters who are much more effective than the multi-class characters are. It is good to have a Jack of all Trades but it is also extremely important to have a Master of a craft in a group. When you have low level multi-class characters in a higher level dungeon, the thieves can't pick the locks, the fighters don't hit as often and the mages don't have spells with enough punch. And low level cleric spells don't do enough healing to keep all those multi-class characters alive but a single class cleric with cure critical wounds sure does.

[@thetabletopsupershow3670]

Love the custom bookmarks my dude!

[@page121tabletoproleplaying4]

My son Patrick made them.

[@tr349]

Hey there, Another good video. Sorry, this is a bit long. Three of my favorite multi-classed characters are Eric Starwise a half-elven cleric of Corellon Larethian/fighter/magic-user, Macklin Angus "Mac" MacTavis a halfling fighter/thief, and Saxberg "Stryder" Lythmande a half-elven ranger/cleric of Frey. In our campaign clerics could select and wield the weapon(s) and armor type of their deity without penalty. Eric was raised in an elvish community and Stryder was raised in a human society setting. The three of them have adventured together for many years. We have done multi-class leveling in two different ways. We have used the way you described, the other way was to add the needed XPs for all classes, i.e., for a cleric/fighter/magic-user to go up 2nd level you need 6,001 XPs that way you go up evenly not staggered. So, a fighter/thief would need 3,251 XPs for 2nd level. We used this method because demi-humans live longer, and this represents that idea to us.

[@ericaltmann5711]

Very fond memories of my human fighter magic user character in year 11 at school.

[@ericaltmann5711]

Our DM allowed humans to multiclass, as he was sick of parties of half elves.

[@geoffroberts1385]

Racial level limits are just a part of 1st ed. Some don't agree with them. But... we followed them, and there really was no problem with it. In 1st Edition, most characters' powers come from their Magic Items. Think about it. Elven F/MU/THF? Even when maxed out in the first two classes, the character could still wear +5 plate, +5 shield, use ANY magical weapons, AND use ANY staves, wands, and scrolls for ANY level spell. And STILL be able to use some of their Thief skills, which had no level limits. ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Even maxed out in F/MU, they're like the Swiss Army Knife of characters. Our maxed-out multi-classed demi-human characters (in a high level campaign) still held their own when teamed with higher-level human/single-class characters. They lacked in To-Hit Charts and comparable Hit Points, but that's all they lacked. Their other benefits more than made up for it.

[@TheProphessionalGeek]

Mage/Thief is great. I play one. I love using Cat’s Grace. With even an average Dexterity, Mage/Thief is very likely to hit 20 Dex after Cat’s Grace. And then there’s casting Improved Invisibility to backstab every single attack. Oh ya.

[@maksimsmelchak7433]

Great video.

[@nordicmaelstrom4714]

I've never been a fan of shoehorning races into class combinations or class restrictions. At my table I eliminated the class restrictions based on what race you are as well as removed level limitations. I always felt that kind of restriction was very detrimental to creating characters players wanted to play. To offset that benefit of being human being able to go into any class I gave them extra proficiency slots and have been toying with giving humans a +1 stat and a -1 stat determined randomly. The game master always has final say on class combinations so players better have a good reason for the class choices they are trying to go with.

[@page121tabletoproleplaying4]

My players start with one automatic 18 and roll the other 5 stats using 4d6 drop the lowest.

[@coachlarry6773]

Great video Tony. I’ve have never run a triple classed character or any of the multi classed Assassin ones. Do you limit your characters by race as who can go adventuring with, like the Half Orc doesn’t like the Dwarves etc? Since Assassins are usually Half Orcs we never used them.

[@page121tabletoproleplaying4]

We don't limit by race. There's a lot more roleplaying that way.

[@CaptCook999]

We had somebody who wanted to use his half orc assassin with our group. We had 2 dwarves and a gnome and others in the group and when the half orc joined us the dwarves started with insults, as they should being that they pretty much hated half orcs. So the player decided that it wasn't a good idea especially with 3 of the other characters being of good alignment. He wasn't going to get much help from the other PC's, that's for sure!

[@ChrisField-eg8lb]

Listening to a number of your videos I'm not sure why anyone would play anything other than MU Elf at your table.

[@protonneutron9046]

add the tag #d&d to your videos

[@DawnOfElaris]

I recently started trying to get "back into" AD&D and multiclassing, as well as the subclasses of paladin, Ranger, specialist, and bard definitely confused me. My dad had played with my brothers and I but I was about 6 at the time and don't remember any of it. Does a paladin/ranger have to start as a fighter before becoming the subclass like how subclasses work in 5e, or would someone begin play as a paladin/ranger?

[@Taricus]

You started as a paladin/ranger in AD&D. You rolled your stats randomly and paladin/ranger required higher stats. Also, if a paladin or ranger ever commits an evil act, they lose their status and paladin/ranger abilities and become fighters.

[@DawnOfElaris]

@@TaricusThat makes a lot more sense, it seems I'd just been mistaken. Thank you!

[@richarddillinger8768]

This involves the Unearthed Arcana. I rolled extraordinary really well on my dice. I chose to write up a female gray elf Cavalier/magic-user. My dungeonmaster insisted that the I could not multi-class the Cavalier character. According to my interpretation of the Cavalier as a subclass of The Fighter character I think that the elf Cavalier magic-user is legal. What do you think?

[@page121tabletoproleplaying4]

I would probably allow the multi-class unless the player was doing it for power gaming. If he was actually excited about the idea, I would most likely allow it.

[@user-cx7kg6ok9b]

According to the rules, the DM is the final arbiter. If you don't like his/her decision you are free to find another DM to game with. Personally, I don't play any version of D&D that has all the weird subclasses. I'd rather just play Hyperborea in that case, as all of the subclasses in that game are equivalent to a multi-class character. So what you describe is basically the Cataphract subclass of fighter. Of course, Hyperborea doesn't have non-human races, so the grey elf bit would be out. And, since Hyperborea is really sort of an AD&D clone with modifications, you get pretty much the same experience, albeit set on a bizarre flat world orbiting Saturn.

[@Dave_L]

Where in the rules does it say half hit points get rounded up? I couldnt find it when I looked

[@page121tabletoproleplaying4]

I think it's in the PHB, but it's possible we just made a house rule.

[@CaptCook999]

It does "indicate" it under the fighter/magic user/thief. Showing the average as rounded up to 4 HP. It would also be pretty hard to keep track of 1/2 hp's and really unfair to the players to round down hp's. I could see a revolt coming if you did that to your PC's. And also, under Constitution, it does state that you get your bonus Hp's per Hit Die. So a fighter/MU/thief could get 8 extra Hp's with an 18 constitution(4+2+2).

[@Dave_L]

Sorry @@CaptCook999 , could you please check if you read that correctly? My copy of the PHB pretty clearly states that fractional hit-points for multiclass characters are rounded down. That is why I was surprised to see @13:20 that he rounded up the fractional hit point roll for his fighter/thief (and he later confirmed that it was indeed merely a house rule). Likewise, your interpretation of how Constitution bonuses work for multi-class characters seems to be pretty squarely controverted by the PHB when it says that the full Constitution bonus is only given one time for multi-class characters at character creation and then divided by the number of classes upon subsequent level advancement. Under the actual rules, the correct method is that upon progressing to 4th level in his thief class, the fighter/thief should have gained 3 hit points (rolls a 3 on the 1d6, divided in half to 1.5, rounded down to 1, plus half of his +4 Constitution bonus).

[@CaptCook999]

​@@Dave_L , I can find nothing about multi-class character HP rounding down or up except for the listing on page 33 of the DMG for F/M/T, in which case it is rounded up. And under Constitution in the PHB it clearly states that the bonus is per Hit Die with only fighters getting the higher bonus. So a multi-class character would roll a Hit Die for each class and get the Constitution bonus for each Hit Die as appropriate for that class. If you have information to the contrary then please let us know where that information can be found. It has always been somewhat confusing.

[@Dave_L]

@@CaptCook999 Oh true enough! I was looking at my 2nd Edition books and assuming it worked the same way. I was able to download a 1e PHB PDF and can confirm it seems to work as you describe in 1st Edition. Odd that this was changed in 2nd Edition! I am no expert when it comes to 1e so I will leave it there. Thank you for the page number, that helped clarify things (page 33 in the 2e DMG is about coins, so I knew something was missing!).