Multiplayer, VR, and FAQs - 4D Golf Devlog #7

[@xaostek]

"Bumping into another player's ball is pretty rare, unless you do it on purpose" when i play Golf With Friends with friends, we almost exclusively shoot at each other. this will be a blast!

[@nerdest]

This game would the perfect example of "don't try to understand it, feel it" - tenet

[@FireyDeath4]

Nil Rider is another perfect one

[@x8c8r]

tenet mentioned

[@STIMULAT10N]

And 5D Chess with Multiverse Time Travel

[@FireyDeath4]

@@STIMULAT10N Frankly I think that one is much easier to understand than feel. Play that too much and you'll just find yourself getting random checkmates out of nowhere XP

[@MarcusBS]

In the episode for March 24th you were featured in the Linux Game Cast podcast please let me know if I can provide a link to you to make this easier :-)

[@Schmidtstone]

"me and the bois getting online to play 4D Golf VR" is not a sentence I thought I would be using in the near future

[@Wulfstrex]

3:17 “Don't forget to smash that WISHLIST BUTTON!“ Ah yes, subversion at it's finest

[@MinecrafterPiano]

Really excited about hearing that internet-multiplayer will be worked on! Also love the little "... It's pretty rare to (unintentionally) collide". Y'all know that it's *always* intentional!

[@Wulfstrex]

Don't forget about Remote Play Together though, which will be there from the start. And colliding doesn't have to be always intentional… it can be a risk the player is willing to take before hitting the ball with full power! xD

[@peabrainiac6370]

@@Wulfstrex my experience with Remote Play Together is that it works well for two people with good internet connections, but doesn't anymore the moment you bring in more people or someone with bad internet. So at least for those cases, online multiplayer will be very useful to have.

[@jackson6544]

After seeing Hyperbolica I wanted/attempted to make a 4d Golf game, but I am sure it would have taken me years just to get to where you were back then. After seeing these dev logs, I know you are the only one who can make these amazing games a reality, and despite understanding the math, these projects will never cease to amaze me. Amazing work; I am excited to see what you think of next!

[@Wulfstrex]

Don't forget that he plans to make things from this project open-source some time after the release, so there won't be as much standing in your way of creating your own 4D game as before.

[@ValeBridges]

0:22 Since it's a dimension higher, would that make it a learning surface?

[@lucbloom]

Next up: 4D Racing VR

[@Wulfstrex]

I mean, there is technically the mode where you don't hit the ball, but control it directly, while trying to get into the hole as fast as possible.

[@alexandertheok9610]

next 4D Golf update: 4D Golf with multiverse time travel

[@lucbloom]

@@Wulfstrex Cool! I think I watched all the videos and I didn’t know that.

[@atomictraveller]

9D weed smoking. let me give you the word there son, you take your time when you try to get into that hole, don't speed it up.

[@ziggyzoggin]

@@lucbloom Yeah he never mentioned it publicly, but he did show it a couple times. For example, in the first trailer there's a segment like that. I just assumed it was a mode he made for cinematic reasons, but no its in the game.

[@DanielPany]

Is there still going to be a Monkey Ball version of gameplay? I thought this was teased in an earlier trailer.

[@CodeParade]

Yes it is still in the game!

[@minerharry]

So unbelievably hype. This will be an on-release buy for me. Stellar work!

[@cheeseburgermonkey7104]

Keep it up on 4D Golf, this probably is the most creative idea I've ever seen someone bring to life

[@fisrtnamelastname3083]

This is incredible!!

[@Eic-T]

0:22 The first thing I did after buying it was playing it at 3am with 4 people who knew nothing about 4D geometry

[@Wulfstrex]

And how was it like for everyone?

[@andrewmacias7080]

This is incredible. I hope this game blows up and gets tons of attention, even more so than it has now. I can already see this being a phenomenon like 5D Chess with Mulitverse Time Travel, I really hope it surpases the popularity of even that with its multiplayer aspect! You deserve all the praise coming your way!

[@DeFlekkie]

Just here to support. You are doing an amazing job with this development. I have tons of respect for you really pushing the boundaries of what is possible and conceivable. (Loved hyperbolica for that reason). Can't wait to play!

[@05degrees]

I just want to wish you and philmakesnoise much success! 👏 This looks better and better with each glimpse!

[@SaltLakePops]

Please add a super secret 5D mode

[@hiiistrex2838]

Can't wait!!! I'll have to try to borrow a VR headset for this because looking around like that sounds so cool

[@sayyidassons9332]

i have been watching this channel ever since the start and it makes me happy another major game is coming out :)

[@ArrowNought]

Hearing its coming for vr too makes me 3x as likely to buy it

[@Wulfstrex]

How likely were you to buy it before hearing that?

[@ArrowNought]

@@Wulfstrex maybe like 25%

[@Wulfstrex]

@@ArrowNoughtOh so you must be at 75% now then. What more would you need to get it to 100%?

[@flingyourself]

@@Wulfstrexfree one million dollars when I purchase the game (jk)

[@anthonyfleming8334]

SO EXCITED FOR VR!!!

[@OnaRocketship]

What do you have planned next?

[@dkaraush]

looking forward to try 4d golf in vr. I remember trying hyperbolica in oculus quest and unfortunately got motion sickness quite fast... I hope all those "moving" objects around in golf would be easier for my brain

[@Wulfstrex]

You yourself staying stationary and teleporting should really help

[@zigzagzwag]

cant wait to get it! it's nice having the extra local and online multiplayer options

[@Skeffles]

Good luck with it! It's really interesting hearing about how this maps to a VR experience.

[@DrakiniteOfficial]

YOOOOOO I'M SO EXCITED!!! I was just assuming that you wouldn't have online multiplayer, simply because I know how complicated and difficult it is to make something online multiplayer. I'm so glad to hear that it's a planned feature!!

[@emtomb]

Are there any plans to add a multi-camera view? I find myself switching between the normal view and the "slice + volume" view a lot and it would be nice if I could get that latter view in the top corner or something. I'm only 1.5 hours into the game, so maybe this isn't a big problem if I play more and learn the courses, but this was just a thought. _(I think my problem is that I can't tell height (up/down) while in volume view so I need to constantly check the normal view to figure that out. I'm pretty much using volume view to understand the course)_ Edit: Also the ability to zoom out when in walking mode would be nice too!

[@GW_122]

IM SO READY FOR VR

[@Booksds]

I get a lot of fun out of Walkabout Mini Golf, so I’m super excited to try the VR mode when it eventually releases!

[@tetrasimplex3236]

Can't wait to play! these devlogs have been so awesome.

[@hkayakh]

I cannot wait to hear the music for this game!

[@drakohyena9672]

I feel like youd be making a pretty big mistake if online co-op wasnt implemented on release. It would help continue the release hype momentum by allowing streamers to play it together right off the bat. (This looks like a perfect game for streamers lol)

[@Wulfstrex]

I guess it just isn't fully ready yet, so that's what the Remote Play Together will be for in the beginning. It can be hoped that the other contents of the game will hold the interest until online will be ready as well.

[@Twisted_Logic]

I'm excited. VR was my biggest hope!

[@Filip_Z]

THATS SO AWESOME, VR MULTIPLAYEERRR!!!!! Im so excited to play 4d golf with my buddy in VR!!!!

[@TheAgamemnon911]

Oh, I am _definitely_ going to wait for the VR version.

[@antipastamony]

honestly I wasn't expecting multiplayer, so hearing it's included is massively exciting. keep up the great work!

[@SeanStClair-cr9jl]

If you are able to tackle networking with the class and mathematical thoroughness that you've tackled everything else, I would be be eternally grateful for that video >.>

[@scanerang]

How has Hyperbolica and 4D Golf changed the way you think about 4D space? Has it given you insight to other topics related and unrelated to 4D space?

[@MichaelDarrow-tr1mn]

What is the floor tiling at 3:11 ?

[@nagger-i]

am waiting for 5D golf wishlisting available in 2034.

[@Wulfstrex]

Why would you wait for 5D Golf?

[@alexsiemers7898]

…all I’m gonna say is that you should see what the last levels in the game are about

[@LKDesign]

I still feel like I would be overwhelmed by the concept of a 4D-world. The hands-on experience might help and so I will give it a try.

[@SuperMarioRaymond1]

Is VR and Online still planned?

[@Wulfstrex]

I think that those are still planned.

[@seanmunderloh3438]

I can't wait for 4D golf! I hope you'll work on another hyperbolic geometry project after this.

[@seanmunderloh3438]

I hope you read this Mr. CodeParade. I don't know if you have been following other hyperbolic minecraft/world-building games that are being developed. I think all of them fall short in one way or another. I think it would be great to have a world builder with a similar style to Hyperbolica, where you use a {6,4} tiling of a hyperbolic plane on which you can build with subdivided blocks 1 meter wide. (It looks like that's what you use in Hyperbolica based on my measurement of the floor of the NEMO) The crucial difference from the other ones being made right now is that the top of a stack of these blocks would be an equidistant curve to the plane. I believe that Hyperblock (which seems like a dead project) uses a 3d tiling of 3d hyperbolic space instead of stacked blocks tracing out an equidistant curve. This difference would make it much easier to build things in hyperbolic space. I recently tried a version of Hypermine, and that also falls short because the curvature isn't as intense as it is in Hyperbolica. It also has too much variation in terrain height, which in my opinion is not needed in a hyperbolic game. Anyway, I can't thank you enough for making Hyperbolica. For years before you announced it I had dreamed of what it would be like to walk around on a hyperbolic plane. It would be so wonderful to see all the things people design in a hyperbolic world builder that you made.

[@Adam-zt4cn]

Comment about 2:08 : I am against mapping the left-right rotation (= yaw) to the controller, because in VR this should be delegated to the headset. Having your world spun around by things other than your actual head is one of the main causes of VR motion sickness. The other two axes, usually called "reel" and "twirl", I imagine should work fine mapped to a controller, because they have no 3D analog, and such don't interfere with our intuition for 3D movement. I suppose the most natural mapping would be to bind the reel to controller pitch (= up-down), the twirl to controller roll, and just leave the controller yaw un-mapped.

[@Wulfstrex]

I can imagine that there will be a few options to choose from.

[@SaltyIsaac]

I'm hyped! Would you say one could jump in VR and learn the game that way directly, or would you advise playing on a flatscreen first?

[@CodeParade]

As long as you start with the tutorial in VR, you'll be good!

[@pacha1500]

omg i wasnt expecting multiplayer, ill bother my friends to play with me so much!

[@Wulfstrex]

The good thing is that they can't use the excuse of not buying it for some reason, thanks to Remote Play Together only requiring one person who bought the game xD

[@pacha1500]

@@Wulfstrex remote play? I be showing at their door ringing the bell and screaming "MICHAEL!!! COME PLAY GOLF MICHAEL!!!"

[@Wulfstrex]

@@pacha1500 While you carry the computer on which you will have the game? xD

[@jojojorisjhjosef]

This is sick, I cant wait.

[@vanderkarl3927]

I'm looking forward to Online Multiplayer, even if it's not ready on release!

[@MommysGoodPuppy]

i cant wait for vr

[@nerdest]

one more suggestion for the release trailer is when the text is shown like the release date, make them fade out to tesseracts.

[@waify2678]

now just continue extrapolating the concept into higher and higher dimensions and you have an endless trilogy money farm :D

[@yousefmansy2880]

Interesting were getting a 4d mini golf for vr before a regular 3d vr mini golf - with online Multi-player no less! Would be interesting to add a simple 3d map pack to fill that void.

[@Wulfstrex]

Or we might see other players create 3D maps through the level editor.

[@TommyLikeTom]

This is one game I'm definitely going to buy

[@mopishlynx2323]

wait it's *on my birthday?* CodeParade, you spoil me

[@sdrawkcab_emanresu]

Happy Birthday!!!!!

[@MykhailoIvancha]

Thank you

[@ziggyzoggin]

I know this is unrealistic but it would be so cool if this was published to PS5 so I could play it on the PSVR2! I never thought about this being a VR game but it sounds really cool! Great video as always.

[@Therealcooliuscaesar]

What do the K and A mean on the compass?

[@Wulfstrex]

Ana and Kata, which are new to 4D

[@1DaBloop1]

I am so excited for this game!

[@unkinderpine0918]

yes I have a question....um....how...how do you play this game? Do you have some sort of slider to see each "slice" of the 4D dimension? How has the tutorial gone in play testing? Are most people able to pick it up after a while? I'm genuinely very interested in this game! I'm excited to see what comes of it

[@eliasforamitti]

I'm really hyped for that release! And, man, multiplayer sounds like an awesome idea for such a game. Though, I fear that hosting a centralized server might not be economical for you in the long-term, as is often the case for smaller indie games. It's always a little sad to see great mutliplayer games become pure offline/single player games. If it's a possibility for you, it would be awesome if you'd publish the server code (or just the server executable) to enable fans to host their own servers (or just used peer-to-peer-technology to make servers unnecessary). As my friend group tends to replay our multiplayer library regularly even years after releases, there are at least us handful players that would probably benefit from such future-proofing.

[@Wulfstrex]

Wouldn't there always be Remote Play Together though just in case?

[@RealSharpenIron]

I'm ready for 4D golf in VR

[@derekritch4360]

4d hyperbalica next?!

[@vafer586]

You talked about the benefit of rotating the VR controller to look around in all directions. Do you intend to also allow for Gyro Controls on regular controllers that support it when playing on your regular monitor?

[@Firelordthe64th]

I hope that when it comes to VR that you can find a way to get it onto the meta quest 2 and 3

[@cheezitupp]

Please give walkabout a try because it’s not only a great vr minigolf game but it’s one of the most intuitive and fun vr games in general I’ve played ever. It can help you get a feel for how to make the controls in your game fantastic.

[@infinitivez]

Just an idea, (and maybe a dumb one at that) but could you maybe add a light red/blue shift haze to the items and environment outside of your field of view, to show a sort of directionality to them?

[@CodeParade]

I have that feature already, but haven't shown it in the videos yet.

[@KirbysBalls]

Will you try to put it on the oculus store or will it be steam VR exclusive

[@MrOliPantz]

my man got the most advanced headset ever and I got a quest 2 💀

[@BOLL7708]

Holy bungalow, I'm like "Oh yeah he's going to say VR won't make it", well color me positively surprised 🤣 Hyperbolica was indeed _quite intense_ to play in VR, and I haven't completed achievements in it for this reason, but this seems waaaaay more palatable. 😁

[@XxelfyxX1]

The funny thing with Hyperbolica for me was that the VR version actually made me less motion sick than the flatscreen version. I was unable to play the game looking at the screen, it just hurt my eyes too much. But having space literally warp around me in VR? Just fine

[@CodeParade]

You're not the only one, that was a very common experience.

[@SuperDexterMurphy]

I just played Hyperbolica on the quest2 and its soo strange in VR. In a good way. Are you planning to bring 4D Golf for quest too?

[@forgetfulfunctor6416]

I have to imagine that *someone* is going to try and hack together wiimote support for this game after launch (or at least after motion controller support is added).

[@ajax4165]

Awesome! If possible, please try to get WMR VR devices to work with it, too. It might be a big ask, but it would be much appreciated. This is super impressive work already! Walkabout VR golf is probably my most played VR game [maybe Alyx], but if 4d golf works on my Samsung odyssey+ it will probably be my new go-to vr game!

[@Wulfstrex]

What are WMR VR devices?

[@Ryanisthere]

i have to imagine this game ain't gonna be on quest i have to imagine its a performance nightmare on pc already

[@Beno951]

I bought Hyperbolica on Quest and I will buy this one too :)

[@EpsilonZolton]

yeah getting online multiplayer post launch is fine with me also MULTIPLAYER LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! ALSO VR HOLY SHIT 10/10 GAME

[@randomsomeguy156]

I'm still so confused to how one guy at home can make all this. No team. No group. Just one man and unorthodox geometry

[@Wulfstrex]

Don't forget about philmakesnoise for the music.

[@GeekyGami]

I will be playing it on release. It does make me wonder what Super Monkey Ball would be like in 4D though.

[@Wulfstrex]

You mean because of the mode where you control the ball directly?

[@GeekyGami]

@@Wulfstrex No, I'm imagining leaning the world to move the ball, but also changing its dimensions while leaning it all over.

[@Wulfstrex]

@@GeekyGami Oh yeah, very good point. That could be very interesting.

[@gandalfthemagenta7364]

How much easier would It be If you already have a lot of knowledge about the 4th dimension? I Have done a lot of research and even made some 4D things in desmos graphing calculator and in javascript. And even made a 5D gravity simulation. I have also played a mod with the slicing method that makes minecraft 4D

[@oblive3172]

question, are you able to play others custom maps via mabey a screen where you can search for them

[@chessie2003]

While it's difficult to accidentally hit another player's ball, could you add a toggle for balls to be unable to hit each other? Sometimes I play games with my younger family members (who can't help themselves), and that kind of stuff tends to start arguments. Either way, looking forward to your game!

[@CodeParade]

Yes ball collisions can be toggled off.

[@JoJodyssey-c2f]

Question: Will this be your last dive into higher dimension gameplay? If not, what kind of game do you have in mind to work on next?

[@0void]

mulitplayer (mulletplayer)

[@mikivanousek1030]

Can't belive this was just 4 weeks ago. Playing as we speak. Will it be possible to play it on a Quest as a standalone game, or just streaming? I runs great on my 5 year old laptop (respect), so I think Quest would be perfectly capable.

[@MikeM8891]

Hold the phone! Where can I get a hyperbolica sweatshirt!?

[@ping163]

I'm curious at what all the different visualization options are. I know we've seen a bunch scattered throughout the devlogs and trailers and shorts, but I was wondering if we could have a full list of them/if there are any in the game that we haven't gotten to see yet?

[@iiiiii-w8h]

hyperbolic 4d billiards when?

[@x8c8r]

I really can't wait for this. Kinda wanted to know about how much it will cost on release tho (especially in KZT).

[@Wulfstrex]

“The new price range is going to be somewhere between $15 and $20, similar to Hyperbolica when it launched.“, is what he said on his server about a month ago

[@x8c8r]

@@Wulfstrex thanks

[@Ampheon181]

Can the multiplayer ball collision be disabled?

[@Wulfstrex]

He replied under another comment that this is the case.

[@FireyDeath4]

Is it gonna have the marp/garp cardinal directions

[@Wulfstrex]

It has the Ana/Kata cardinal directions

[@FireyDeath4]

@@Wulfstrex Ah. I figured as much Yeah they just came up with some ones particularly for the compass I wanted to include

[@StickNik]

OH YEAH!!

[@ezyto]

will support for controllers like the Dualshock or Switch Pro be included for rotating the 3D compass since they also are 3 DOF controllers?

[@MEGAMeetsmeh]

So will it be on Quest App Lab like Hyperbolica?

[@CodeParade]

Maybe, if I can optimize it enough. But it'll be a lot trickier than Hyperbolica...

[@CrypticCayenne]

Trust Me

[@wiirambo7437]

Can you make 4D Snooker with the ball hitting physics?

[@ugarit5]

Will this work for apple vision pro?

[@PizzaMineKing]

My remaining lingering question is: Prizetag? More around 10, 30 or 60€?

[@Wulfstrex]

“The new price range is going to be somewhere between $15 and $20, similar to Hyperbolica when it launched.“, is what he said about a month ago on his server.

[@PizzaMineKing]

@@Wulfstrex Ah. I'm... not on that server... Thanks!

[@DaniilBubnov]

PLEASE, 4D HYPERBOLIC GOLF 🙏🙏

[@nickpatella1525]

For custom levels, will it be possible to load or hack in any sort of 4D mesh files, maybe reverse-engineer your existing levels, for making those planets you show off in the space world? Was interested in golfing on the surface of different 4D shapes, like hyperspheres, tigers, spheritori, torispheres, spherinders, etc etc

[@CodeParade]

There's a level where you golf on a 3-sphere already 😉

[@antoninduda9078]

CodeParade, you misspelled multiplayer as "mulitplayer" in "Will it have Multiplayer?".

[@sdrawkcab_emanresu]

Maybe you can play as a Mulit :)