Multiscale Fretboards: How To Mark & Cut Them

[@WKerrick]

Came across this randomly while browsing, instant sub. Great video, dude

[@chriswick21]

thanks dude! must have watched this 3 or 4 times now.. super helpful! I'm doing a walnut fretboard, 25.5" & 27", perpendicular at the 9th fret.

[@IPGuitars]

Thanks, I'm glad you've found it helpful! Awesome, lemme know how it goes :)

[@xyron6662]

that periphery mug tho xD

[@IPGuitars]

One of my favorite mugs🤘🤘

[@williamharrison54]

Nice, you got stargate atlantis on in the background. Rodney McKay is one of my favorite tv characters

[@IPGuitars]

Haha, I've been waiting for someone to notice the stuff I have on in the background. If you haven't seen it, I suggest checking out David Hewlett's movie "A Dog's Breakfast". Really funny movie with the SGA cast. Hewlett is very Rodney-esque in that as well

[@andstr4150]

the part with the puppy was super informational 10/10

[@IPGuitars]

:D it was impawdent that she articulated the information as best she could. Glad it helped!

[@kyoushidesu]

Thanks for doing this man! Also, nice dog.

[@IPGuitars]

No problem :) and yeah, she is a nice doggo

[@matthewhale9831]

I liked instantly because of the Periphery mug.

[@IPGuitars]

😂well thank you

[@sebwoolley688]

Great vid! Quick question..... Don you mark the scale length along the edge of the fretboard or the path of the string?

[@IPGuitars]

Thanks! Along the path of the string. I have a new revision of this video coming up very soon that is a bit more clear on the matter than I was here :)

[@sebwoolley688]

​@@IPGuitarsperfect! Thanks dude 🤘

[@samhunt3201]

You have to mark string spacing at the nut perpendicular to the centre line of the fretboard, and also string spacing at the 12th fret (or whatever fret is perpendicular on your chosen scale length) . This gives the string path of the low and high E strings. Only then can you mark fret positions. The fact you are marking from a good quality ruler is just fine, but not marking the scale lengths along the string paths is going to put you out by a fair amount.

[@IPGuitars]

Good shout. This is something I do address in the video (around 9:50 or so). While I did, in this instance, only go as far as the sides of the fretboard, I did not take into acount the extra few mm that the strings go inward. This would move the intonation ever so slightly, you are right. BUT fortunately the final guitar ended up with perfectly fine intonation and I can make the next one even better :)

[@Dreamdancer11]

Why not use fret2d, glue it on top of the board and then slot it?

[@IPGuitars]

I do use fret2d to find the fret positions, but printing it out accurate enough would be a pain. And also tracing through the paper along the correct line: also a bit of a pain if it doesn't go right :) Which is why I just stick to marking by hand with fret2d showing me where to do so.

[@Dreamdancer11]

@@IPGuitars In the end is all about things that can go wrong....using your way a lot of things can go wrong while if you use the fret2find and give it to a store to print it out for you in 1:1 scale then you can just superglue it up on the board and you have ALL the things in place..nut positions,centerline,string spacing,fretpositions,the taper etc etc etc all relative to each other which makes the margin for error way less... Now the only thing you have to be aware of is to slot right on the printed lines which is easily managed by a straight block of some sort and a small saw( i use a straight modelling saw) for the initial grooves..... So i dont try to discredit your method,it can work, but to claim you are measuring by hand is more accurate than a plotter printing a perfect fret2find complete board is kinda out there....

[@IPGuitars]

And likewise, I am not discrediting your method at all :) merely saying that is is also not without room for error. Also, of course I cannot get lines marked to the accuracy of a computer program. Were I to imply otherwise would indeed be absolute lunacy. The way that I am doing things here is widely in part to my training. This is the method I have been taught and the method that I am familiar enough with to show and teach. This specific video is not without fault though and is one that I really wish to redo and make a) clearer and b) with much more accuracy in the sense of what I got wrong here (e.g. counting for string spacing and alignment of scale lengths accordingly). I also know myself that were I to print the paper, glue it on the fretboard, and mark through it (only mark, not saw). I would have to go and recheck these marks on the wood. So remove the paper, check with rulers and calipers to make sure the lines are correct, adjust if need be and then proceed with cutting and sawing as per usual. Due to this, for me personally, the paper does not warrant any benefit :)

[@Dreamdancer11]

@@IPGuitars When you get the whole fretboard printed from a plotter you can see if its accurate or not BEFORE you bother to glue it onto anything....so if you end up glueing it you know its accurate by default....nothing really to recheck...the paper ll only be removed when you decide to radius the board and before that it ll act as a guide for your centerline,centering it with the neck and gluing it on,drilling for inlays.....using the string spacing lines to center it with the bridge etc etc etc..so there is really no guess work.

[@IPGuitars]

@@Dreamdancer11 I do understand what you meant, but seems I was not clear that this is that myself, personally, I would trust to use the intial lines marked onto the wood. So, once I have cut through the paper, I cease to understand what use it would have anymore. These are just two different methods of doing things. I am used to mine, as it is due to my training and with the tools I have. My line thickness can also be brought down to correspond with how thin a mechanical pencil I wish to use and then the scalpel blade to mark in the middle of those. With the paper method, I still see issues (again, personally). If I am having to cut through material, in this case the paper, possible masking tape, glue, whathaveyou, then that gives room for the marking blade to wander. This very concept is what I use when tracing inlay designs onto pieces of pearl. Once the paper is removed, there can still be discrepancies in where the actual line was and where the cut ended going. It's not a large difference, but a difference still. So to my taste, I would much rather mark straight onto the wood than having to go through paper or the like. If this method works great for you then fantastic :) just that as I have done this over the years, I have found manual marking to work well for me. But I am not dismissing that it would somehow be free of error. Like with single-scaled fretboards, I am looking to move cutting to a jig. Once I can get good enough repeatable and accurate enough results for multiscales with a jig, I will move that process also over :)

[@MrMorkev]

Why not cover that Fret board with white masking tape so you can see the lines

[@IPGuitars]

Great idea in theory for sure, but the masking tape would unfortunately add a layer to cut through and at worst (if you happen to have kinda shoddy masking tape) might move at a critical moment when you need to be really exact. The proper solution to my issue with not seeing the lines here would have been simple: better lighting. But I worked with what I got. CANNOT WAIT to do this video again and better :D

[@ianb4801]

and shouldn't you be marking along where the first and last strings go, rather than the edge of your blank - or the edge of the fret board?

[@IPGuitars]

Yes, I should. I am meaning to revise a lot of things that I could've done better in a new video. Fortunately I did correct myself on the video to move marks along the taper of the fretboard though, but you are correct that the last adjustment to get the frets marked along the bass and treble strings would've been more accurate. Luckily, this did still intonate well across the fretboard. Lots learned in the process of making it though.

[@ianb4801]

@@IPGuitars with my next build, I'm thinking of almost a "baby" multi scale with high E at 24.75, low E at 25.5 and a 7th string as well. I think that means marking along the 1st string line and the 6th string line and just extending the lines out to the 7th string. I don't want a "bass monster", more to just improve playability as my hands are pretty old. Might be an asymmetric neck shape and a compound fretboard taper might help me as well. I think the fan will not be that obvious either, but that's OK. Something I need to work on, though, is to make a new base for a Hannes bridge because the standard one won't suit the new angle properly; not enough screw adjustment range for correct intonation and the saddles won't pull straight either. I think that, by machining a new base piece, with holes at the new angle, the saddles themselves should fit right in. I could possibly blue it or get it black chromed. Have you found problems getting adjustability with your bridge at all? Your observation about your neck intonation OK is interesting too. I suppose it all boils down to relative lengths and consistency rather than actual physical measurements.

[@IPGuitars]

The 24.75-25.5 actually makes a lot of sense to me honestly. And it also feels "familiar" enough, because as you said, it's a relatively slight fan. If you get the Hannes working that would be awesome! As for myself, I didn't have issues with the bridge angle as I used single saddled bridge pieces. That way I also got the fine adjustment working to intonate well on each string. There's videos of the full guitar finished up if you're interested, it's the "Gaea".

[@elsenorx·hace.10.años]

Hi, sorry i just could not find your video for regular scale fretboard, how to scale or mark the frets. How can i find it?

[@IPGuitars]

Hey, yeah seems like it is a bit hard to find, but I did film one with the pine guitar, here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nX_dlmSLZ7R6bdE

[@elsenorx·hace.10.años]

@@IPGuitars thank you! I actually love the pine saga. What i mean is the science behind it, the distance between frets, etc. How do i determine that, is it related to the width or the thickness? I am lost. Or do you just figure it out by tuning? Thank you!

[@IPGuitars]

Basically I either use an online fret finder or a table in a book. It all has to do with the relative distances/intonation points of the tones in between the two end points of a scale length (nut & bridge), if memory serves as I write this. The main thing to get right is that your frets are perpendicular to the centerline of your fretboard. While aiming for as accurate of measurement, getting to the closest .5mm is usually enough to be able to avoid any intonation issues.

[@elsenorx·hace.10.años]

@@IPGuitars perfect 💓

[@simonecamplani2430]

Thx!

[@ianb4801]

with respect, I think having the 7th or 8th fret square is more common than the 12th

[@IPGuitars]

Absolutely right and something I learned a while after making this video. And honestly, the 2" difference in scale lengths and the square 12th fret made the fan very drastic. Just talked about this recently on a stream actually

[@DE-GEN-ART]

i just print the paattern onto printer paper, cut it out and trace it onto the fretboard

[@IPGuitars]

That is a way of doing it 👍🏼 just need to make sure to print it 1:1 and trace so that you get your lines exactly where they need to be. I've found that, while that method works, there is too big of a margin for error atleast on my part not having a good enough printer.

[@jamesrocks300mf]

you realize you need to mark the fret locations at the string intersections right

[@IPGuitars]

Yes and another reason why I am redoing this video properly once I make another multiscale.

[@tympahl1281]

Sorry had to bail 5 mins into this video. You clearly don.t know what you are doing

[@IPGuitars]

Sorry to hear that you left it there. While yes, this was my first multiscale fretboard, I did go into detail on the professional methods of cutting frets by hand. And as always: measure twice, cut once :) This is something that I also went in to show. The end result and finished guitar turned out great, but I should make another video on this which is even clearer ...in the first five minutes ;)

[@curtisbourque8713]

I don't mean to be rude, no one should use this video as a reference. First of all he's guessing at the measurements, you can only be as accurate as the instrument you are using, i.e. his scale has millimetres so he can only measure accurately to 1mm, he's guessing anything that has a point in it which is every measurement, a vernier caliper is a much more appropriate tool for this. Secondly he hasn't done this before because it took him 8 or 9 minutes (video time) to realize he was doing it wrong. Then he says one scale will have 22 frets and the other 24 this makes no sense. Please if your like me and interested in building a multi scale instrument just mark it out on paper first before you cut any precious wood.

[@curtisbourque8713]

Oh and use a marking knife to layout your fretboards not pencils.

[@IPGuitars]

Thank you for commenting, but let me correct some details you missed. As mentioned in the video, I am using a fret calculating tool that shows all my accurate fret positions, that I then transfer onto the fretboard. I have converted my scales to mm, because -as mentioned- it allows me to be more accurate as I understand metric and my ruler is clearer in that regard. There is no guesswork here :) I said that this is my first multiscale fretboard. I realised that the issue was not having the taper, which would've ended with having the positions wrong, as I explained. This is why you always measure twice, in this case it was something that I could easily fix. Do not misunderstand the difference here. My training background had me cut fret slots by hand and is something I have done many times before, the technique doesn't differ with multiple scale lengths :) The client in question wanted the end of the fretboard angled in such a way that it cuts into the frets, thus causing one side to have 22, and one to have 24. This would be a different case entirely if the fretboard ended after the final fret and angled according to the frets. I agree with marking and drawing it out first :) which is why I did so on the fretboard. If I were to draw it on paper, I would still have to do it again on the wood anyway using the exact same method. I used a pencil, because I did not want to score the wood before I was ready and satisfied with things being in order. Hopefully that cleared things up a little

[@FlaxeMusic]

Depending on how drastic the fanning is, if the bridge end of the fretboard is a straight 90 degree angle than you're inevitably going to be chopping some frets short/leaving some out entirely. If you skew the fretboard relative to the fan you can have all those frets as per usual. Personally I prefer the mandolin-esque aesthetic of taking off those 2 frets on the bass end because I'm honestly never going to use my bass string past the 22nd like ever and then the neck pickup can be positioned directly behind the squared edge rather than being at the tip of the otherwise slanted fretboard. Or god forbid slanting the whole pickup construction to match the angled fretboard edge, I personally hate that look.

[@IPGuitars]

It all comes down to personal preferences in design at that point :) and I agree logically with you as well on the matter of how to "eliminate" frets that you are just not going to use. This one just went the way it did, due to the client's wishes and his design preference.

[@Jkarlo77]

Can you refer a video or make one to complement how to make a fanned fretboard, not being sarcastic here I am truly interested.

[@a.s.7386]

Hoping to learn something here. . . Watched the first 5 minutes and realized, even though you may know what you're talking about, you are not prepared to teach a tutorial on this subject. I know not everyone can be a Dan Erlewine, but it wouldn't hurt to have such a goal.

[@IPGuitars]

I will admit that the manner of filming isn't of the best quality. And yes, working on my windowsill does provide a certain demeanour, but essentially the tutorial is to do with how a beginner would be able to do this from home :) To that end, the techniques I go through are techniques that are professional methods. Cutting the fret slots themselves is just the same as on a single scale fretboard. I will admit that I would've needed to do this a bit clearer and will probably rectify that in a new video someday soon. So actually, to that end: thank you :) You've given me an idea on how to film this tutorial better with attention to planning the fret positions themselves.