Engineering Masterpiece | Tesla Model S Plaid Battery Pack

Sandy & Ben dive into a few initial battery pack features in our introduction Tesla Model S Plaid battery episode.
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Outro:
Music from KZbin Audio Library [Aka YAL]
Music provided by RFM: • Video
#Tesla #battery #Plaid

[@shuriken4852]

Very interested in this break down, especially to see the motor, but I cannot wait for Munro to get their hands on the Model Y from Austin with the 2 mega castings, 4680 cells and structural pack.

[@davidbeppler3032]

Minds will be blown!

[@socrplar125]

Afaik, MachE had a structural pack

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@socrplar125 And it's still overweight.

[@socrplar125]

@@rogerstarkey5390 sure. But that doesn't detract from the fact that it already exists and Munro has viewed it

[@GET2222]

@@socrplar125 their structural pack was not attached to two gigacastings. Basically 3 pieces compared to 300 pieces or more in the Mach-E. Comparing the Mach-E to the Y or S is a joke. You know that right?

[@chdcalifornia880]

I rebuild salvage Teslas in Ukraine. Great analysis guys. One thing that immediately stands out to me - by putting the onboard charger and DC/DC in the front of the pack, they have hugely improved the pack's crashworthiness. I've seen a lot of packs that, in a severe frontal impact, have intrusion/deformation into the front end of the pack (where 2 levels of modules are). This likely has caused the fires in some cases. This new design essentially gives a much larger front crumple zone before any impact could touch the cells, thus reducing the risk of fire in a front-end collision. Deformation would have to be almost to front of the driver's seat before the cells would be impacted. Yet another example of great, intelligent design and constant improvement!!!

[@amimartian]

Ahoy to the fellow Ukrainian. Re Tesla, their original M3 design was very very bad - not only the battery was the first to get hit, but also the exposed cooling pipe, which was very easy to damage requiring (as per Tesla) battery pack replacement.

[@shannons1886]

Great insight!

[@spankeyfish]

From a maintenance point of view it could be better, though. If the DC/DC convertor or charger fail, the entire battery pack is junk. Separating them out into external modules would reduce the number of faults that cost $16,000 to fix.

[@chdcalifornia880]

@@spankeyfish I've not yet seen either of those fail. (Except in the case of flooding.) But I am interested to see what now is taking their place under the back seat!

[@nas4apps]

@@chdcalifornia880 flooding: good point. Living in Tesla-savvy Netherlands a major part of the population live at or below sea-level and different rivers regularly flood (albeit controlled). Uncontrolled small-scale flooding occurs more and more often along European rivers and for that matter: all around the world. Not crashing is great and the car can manage that. However flooding not. And these cars will last for 20 years of global warming ...

[@mkashay]

Hi Sandy, I love how you let your employees do the talking and are encouraging and mentoring them rather than trying to control everything.

[@nononsenseBennett]

Sandy is, after all, a nice Canadian

[@milesshigh]

Yeah but it's a real shame that Ben doesn't know the difference between the totally different units of kW and kWh. Mildly annoying from non-tech people, but here, it's unforgivable. Am I being too harsh?

[@clariplayer]

As an ignorant observer, I admire you unbiased approach with the facts and not sucking up to anyone. Great respect to you and your organisation. 🇦🇺

[@brunoheggli2888]

"unbiasted"serious?He lives from being a Tesla Fanboy!

[@Dan-gd2rk]

"As an ignorant observer, I admire you unbiased approach with the facts and not sucking up to anyone" LOL, you seriously think this clown is objective? you're a complete dumbass dude.

[@opfreakx]

not unbiased. He said in previous videos he owns stock in tesla.

[@fincarosa]

@@opfreakx nope. He doesn't own Tesla stock.

[@L1VE3V1L]

Pretty unbiased. He shits on Tesla when they deserve it, usually in the build quality department, and says it to elons face.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

All the filter components seem to have shrunk, so maybe they're running the OBC and DC/DC at a higher frequency and/or using frequency dithering to reduce the filter requirments.

[@SupremeRuleroftheWorld]

the better performance of the nichicon caps might also help in the total picture.

[@kevin42]

Man im so ready for them to switch to GaN transistors and bump the freq up to 1+ MHz. The freq increase and dramatically better transistor charactaristics should yeild a near 3x power density increase and or a massive efficiency bump. Or both to a lesser degree.

[@markplott4820]

Dont underestimate TESLA.

[@Phoen1x883]

Not surprised in the slightest to see you in the comments of this video, Mike. Would love to see an analysis from you if you can find one at a reasonable price (Munro probably isn't planning a deep dive on the level you usually do).

[@alanmay7929]

Engineerix has done a very detailed video on all those electronic components, sandy has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about tbh!

[@SkyRiver1]

I watch most of the good non bogus Tesla channels, but Munro Live is like the icing on the cake. Cheers

[@theycallmeabe]

I know nothing of engineering, and very little about how automobiles work, but I really enjoy watching your videos. Keep up the good work gents!

[@johnpoldo8817]

As as an EE about Sandy’s age, I’m overwhelmingly impressed with Tesla’s engineering. Now I know what is under the seats in my new model S LR. It is much more complex than a simple battery and motor.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Me too, I wanna see the schematic. Especially the inverter.

[@johnpoldo8817]

@@jamesvandamme7786 Gee, I’ve never heard of a car company sharing a schematic. Have you seen one?

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@johnpoldo8817 That's why we need Sandy's crew to tear it down. Or send it to big Clive and he'll take it to bits. Actually, if I wanted to move back to Motown I'd do it but that ain't happening.

[@solosailorsv8065]

I spent the last two decades solving engineering challenges efficiently in "Tesla" style. Just to be shot down by managers, saying "WE don't do things THAT way, stop trying to change things". Retired and work on my own projects in Tesla style now !

[@jbortell]

I was working on a mica thermal shield for another OEM's battery pack. Tesla's is a unique part that not many can make. The main benefits of Mica over Sabics's Stamax is melting temp and thermal conductivity. OEM's generally test for "thermal events" with a ~5min >900C test (depends on battery chemistry) and the "cold" side of the mica part needs to stay below ~150C. (My material passed with flying colors, but not for a good enough automotive price...couldn't dial it back before the OEM decided on another supplier) Stamax is a polypropylene which will melt at 166C regardless of it being flame retardant. Mica is non-flammable, only the thermoset binders will burn; this is this stuff they use to hold the individual mineral flakes together and hold the curved shapes. Since the part also needs to be quite thin, Mica is the primary choice... and probably laminated with some kind of ceramic/mineral wool.

[@carholic-sz3qv]

Stop lying!!!!

[@louspinelli1745]

Munro Live, spreading the inside information that others can’t or don’t. Thank you for doing what we haven’t been able to ourselves.

[@rayoflight62]

These boards make a 3-phase stepped sinusoid into a pure sinusoid. As they have reduced the size and number of inductors, I believe they have increased the number of steps - basically, they increased the clock frequency of part of the system. This may have required faster MOSFET and lower ESR capacitors, but has increased the efficiency and reduced the weight of the boards.

[@viseerrdentsawl8494]

When you talk high-tech EE like that you attract all sorts of types. Audrey must love you. 😍

[@gforge9708]

Wouldnt IGBTs be used for the higher current? Or is it better to parallel and balance fast switching MOSFETs?

[@CodingMark1]

Great video! Love to see how Tesla is optimizing their chips for mass production while still making constant improvements. Very cool. Thanks!

[@MunroLive]

Couldn't agree more!

[@expediofuture3905]

Hey Mark!

[@cengeb]

Too many functions from one component means a failure affects too many things in the vehicle...these things will be unrepairable...discuss insurance costs for this stuff in an accident

[@cengeb]

Vw has 14 brands and shares lots of components with 10 million vehicles produced...tesla made 500 000 vehicles? So vw has even better purchasing clout

[@AMortalDefiant]

@@cengeb Keep in mind that Tesla made over $5B in net profit last year on only 936k sales (less than one tenth of VWAG's sales volume). The last full year of financials we have for VWAG shows them only netting $9.5B in profit. So, Tesla made 60% of the net profit on less than 10% of the sales volume. Clearly there is a lot more to it than the scale VWAG has (more like HAD, as ICE production decreases). Tesla is just an dramatically more efficient beast in every possible way. Also, pricing clout becomes somewhat irrelevant when one makes their parts in-house, rather than paying mark-ups to suppliers. I'm pretty certain Tesla spends less on the seats it makes than OEMs spend on the seats they buy from suppliers. Edit: It's also worth noting that Tesla's operating margin is literally DOUBLE what VWAG's is (15% vs. 7.5%), so all the numbers suggest the opposite of what you are claiming as far as costs are concerned.

[@Brandon-ll3ff]

Sandy loves parts having multiple uses, rest of the consumer world despises this due to the extreme difficulties in replacing integrated parts. Prime example is BMW running oil or antifreeze through alternator brackets. Great for bmw to save parts but adds $1,000 in service fees when the .39 cent gasket for it begins leaking. Part integration should only be considered for non service items when possible.

[@captiannemo1587]

Indeed… see a 1952 GMC truck for king of simple. But then the engine design is from 39 or so.

[@RestorationWatch]

Hey guys, I'm a high end audio DIY designer and scratch builder. Those capacitors around @20:00 are nichicon on the newer model and Kemet on the older model. These are good quality capacitors, like audio quality and I'm surprised Tesla uses them. I'm impressed. Bet you won't find them in the Chinese products! Also, 400 volts is safe. These 800 volt architectures are going to be pushing their luck. All my stuff is around 400-450 volts, but a friend of mine builds with big vacuum tubes that run around 850 volts and those things are hairy. Porcelain caps and all. I'm interested to see how the 800 volt architecture pans out. I imagine many components having to be special order. Those 500V 330uF nichicons are off the shelf items. Try finding high voltage 330uF capacitors and the choices are slim.

[@TheMobilefidelity]

The added fuses and transformers at the input of the onboard charger probably have to do with the fact that the Plaid charges at 16.5 kW on AC, whereas the model Y only draws 11 kW. It's two versions of the onboard charger that share one common board design, hence the unpopulated components on the Y.

[@jonathanviventi1380]

I haven’t seen that anywhere. It looks like still 48a charging. Where’d you see that?

[@aleksisoukkala]

@@jonathanviventi1380 well in europe model S/X charge at 16.5kW AC from 32A three phase plug so maybe they are just using same charger for us. specialy if that new model S charger works anything like my model 3 charger that can take 11kW from 16A three phase or 7.3kW from 32A single phase. btw 32A (one or three phase) is moast amps you can get from the plug. so because that i think my model 3 coud get full 11kW from 48A singel phace if that woud be availeble in here.

[@jonathanviventi1380]

@@aleksisoukkala that's a good point. Guess it might have the same charger in all markets. I think in the US it maxes out at 48a single phase.

@@aleksisoukkala actually the most you can get from Type 2 plug is 63A ;) some French cars (Zoe?) could leverage that

[@aleksisoukkala]

@ okay. I just haven't seen any type 2 cable that is rated for 63A. And also it wouldn't really make sense cost stand point to make a car whit AC charger that can use 63A because most AC charge points are max 22kW (meaning 32A and 400V three phase)

[@PaulHoke]

Just seeing the coil improvements is incredibly impressive. Details, details, details.

[@alanmay7929]

It’s not impressive at all, Tesla barely makes two vehicles the model x/s and model y/3.

[@PaulHoke]

Of your 707 comments on this channel, are any positive? What's bothering your soul ?

[@logitech4873]

@@alanmay7929 That's 4 vehicles.

[@ZJasko]

Higher 1/T

[@MrCarGuy]

@@logitech4873 It is effectively two. You know what he means

[@kkitzhaber]

Wow. The advances since my days as an electrical engineer in the later 90s.... Amazing!

[@vidznstuff1]

Wut? An L is still an L, a C is still a C, the math is the same.

[@mikumikuiyada]

@@vidznstuff1 not really. if ur an engineer in the 90's, its really like working in the stone age. you have no smartphone, no computers, no internet. basically everything is paper, and people still fight using stones on a sling shot

[@johntyson1958]

I suspect that your most loyal viewers are EV industry competition. Great observations 👍🏻

[@JustMe-bx8gu]

Trust me they already have taken one apart themselves.

[@xmtxx]

Nah, Sandy stated numerous time, that the big auto manufacturer are not interested, at all, in his services. And seeing how GM is bad, and late at making EV's, pretty sure they don't even look at what Tesla is doing.

[@JustMe-bx8gu]

@@xmtxx that might be the case but I have seen leading automotive competitors being taken apart in a company I once worked for. They like to keep this kind of thing in-house :)

[@fred993a]

Sandy and Ben - Thank you for a brilliant engineering analysis. I hope Jim Farley of FORD is watching closely!

[@bluetoad2668]

Yeah, Jim can probably have this sort of tech in their vehicles by about 2027

[@espencapable]

He doesnt know what to look for :P

[@Resist4]

The amount of design and technology that goes into a Tesla (or any auto for that matter), is really mind blowing.

[@sean9421]

I love this series, I wish more folks who are so quick to judge Tesla would appreciate the engineering inside these cars. Panel gaps are unacceptable but boy do they shine internally

[@Adanac]

Munro educating GM Welding patents, and coloring the tip of their sticks green for ease of following. The Masterpiece is Munro!

[@hrissan]

I also noticed that. Great minds!

[@chrisperry3525]

20% improvement in kwh/kg...impressive and then some!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

30% !?

[@adriansaenz6853]

energy density improvements to the battery, weight savings to the car, better aero, etc... Constantly making improvements. Its awesome.

[@harrisoncleaver4787]

Australians can work in the US on a very easy E3 visa that is pretty much a 2 double sided piece of paper saying your a real company hiring an Australian with a passport. No heavy requirements. I have used it myself and it’s very easy and quiet fast. It was set up as a lovely thing to encourage collaboration after we fought together in the war.

[@cathyk9197]

Shout out of appreciation to whomever wrote the light show accompaniment at the end of recent videos! Well done!

[@stephenbone4764]

I ALWAYS ENJOY YOUR TEAMS INSIGHTS ! TOP PEOPLE WHO LOVE WHAT THEY DO ! KNOWLEDGE IS POWER !!!

[@vitalynazarov7748]

Thank you for those videos. They are a breath of fresh air for an engineer!

[@davidanalyst671]

they don't have loud EDM music, and explosions in between scenes too so its very watchable!!

[@randolphtorres4172]

THANKS4GIVING: Mica was used in old stove pilot light windows, old tv tubes, very resistant to high temperatures, it an insulator, a soft layered stone. I don’t think mica has been used much commercially for many years here in the US.

[@alanrickett2537]

Capacitors not made of it in USA ??

[@rebelaqua823]

Mica is still used as a microwave guide covers.... ;)

[@andrewdekoning]

Great teardown, this is the one I was most waiting for and why I contributed to the cause! The reason they used the 18650's is not because they are easier to cool - remember from battery day one feature of the 4680's is that they generate far less heat and therefore will require much less cooling. They are using the 18650's because they have cell supply. The version of the car they are selling is only one of the ones developed - they had/have a 4680 version with a structural pack as well (The Plaid+ used it.) By using the 18650's they can use the 4680's from Kato to ramp Austin first, then once Austin can produce 4680's the Kato production can be moved to supply a new 4680 based version of the S/X - perhaps as a Plaid+ or put them into Semi production ramp, or even into a roadster II. They eventually will release a new version of the S/X with the structural front casting integrated with a structural 4680 pack. Given cell supply constraints this might all be a while, but Tesla tries to move very fast.

[@Resist4]

I thought that too and am surprised Sandy didn't know that.

[@devilsoffspring5519]

You're right, 18650 cells were already mass-produced in enormous quantities because so many notebook computers and other gadgets use them. But, as Tesla production increases, it's worthwhile for them to develop their own cells, and they will make them in cell sizes that allow lower cost and better performance.

[@amimartian]

It's just the way to save money - that's it. There are NO fundamental differences between 18650 and 4680 - they are just different size - 5x capacity thus 5x less cells. It remains to be seen whether the battery will be structural (the way Tesla sold it at their presentation), because, you know it's a 2 tone vehicle and those cell walls be rather thick. Of course, they could always do it just like, you know, every other manufacturer does it and makes the strong shell and then populate it with cells and call it a day. But no one would notice and would treat the 4680 as 'next level engineering'. Remember the Plaid was in development BEFORE Tesla got overvalued and the money started flowing into the business, so everything was done on a budget.

[@Resist4]

@@amimartian Actually there is a huge difference. The 4680 doesn't have tabs.

[@daniellyons3970]

Ben is a wealth of knowledge ….. really appreciate the work being done folks keep the videos coming. Haven’t been as excited since a tear down since you guys done the model Y.

[@MunroLive]

More to come!

[@sietuuba]

@@MunroLive Please tell him to not drop the hours from kWh when presenting and talking about battery capacity even though it's a mouthful and a common fault we're all guilty of sometimes! Kilowatts remain solely a measure of power and not pack energy...

[@Spacefish007]

They probably increased the switching frequency on the Charger a lot, that´s why they can get away with less filtering and smaller inductors. However higher switchting frequencies decrease efficiency most of the time.. (they may have compensated for that by choicing other MOSFETs which switch faster, like GaN based ones)

[@jooptablet1727]

Surely, giant matches are the safest tools to use when touching a live battery pack 😜

[@platniumdr]

Having worked near very high voltage and high current equipment, most safety boards include a long wooden cane to hook and pull people away from electrocution. So yes, poking that giant dangerous charged battery with a wooden stick is in fact perfectly safe lol.

[@hrissan]

Exactly😸

[@lyfandeth]

One hand in the pocket didn't last too long! Sandy, we don't wanna start calling you Sparkie!

[@donkanis6141]

Sandy and Elon, THE two most important people in America and the world today.

[@alanmay7929]

Lol……. They are not, it’s the tousands of other who helped to develop that car

[@jpmackin]

Thanks Sandy and your team- can’t wait for 4680’s!

[@vidznstuff1]

Why?

[@jpmackin]

To get Sandy and his team’s opinion on its engineering.

[@MrCarGuy]

It's legitimately just a larger cell. Not much will change

[@Cloxxki]

It will be interesting to learn how good those are for heat production at a given C load. Tiny cell surface area per unit of volume do hear needs to perfectly come out the one short end that seems to get glued to a cooling plate. I hope 4680 will offer 360 Wh/kg, ideally 400. But it's Tesla so we need to not get our hopes up too much.

[@steveclauter6802]

Hey Sandy, as a retired High Power Design Engineer, remember to use the "One Hand Rule" when working around any live voltages. IOW, keep one hand in your pocket as much as possible. I really like the wooden stick/probes as well!

[@alexanderkenway]

We need a more detailed dive into the electronics. Hope dedicated videos with experts are upcoming

[@alanmay7929]

Go watch engineerix on youtube

[@bluetoad2668]

He said that he's going to do that.

[@amimartian]

They have no experts in this area. Maybe if they invite someone from outside the company...

[@userscott]

@@amimartian you have clearly never read a Munro report. Download the I3 teardown. It includes everything from PIC logic to SMT component counts lol.

[@logantang701]

Mica is used as isolation barrier to protect the battery pack when it come to TR. Mica can stand 1000℃ and it will not burn throuth when the cells are TR.

[@markplott4820]

MUNRO Live - Sandy speaks softly , and carries a BIG stick........lol.

[@arguanmodeth]

To compare the two models you have to buy them at the same time from the same factory. A year makes a big difference. Production lines are always changing and everyone is trying to suggest improvements in everything from the packaging used to deliver the parts to how to assemble the parts. You might notice that all the fasteners are star drive and mostly the same size, something all manufacturers should do. The engines might still be using separate resovers but they are looking to integrate them into the main windings and magnets since it takes a little change in wiring and software and eliminates 3 stations on the line. The best part is no part.

[@johnturner7322]

Because of what you explore and find, if I was to purchase an BEV it just would have to be a Tesla! Their engineering is tops! Sure they have some fitment issues but their vehicles seems to be extremely sound.

[@skittlez8943]

proud to say ive helped make these packs for model x/s :)

[@jan-ludwig5216]

Smaller filter with fewer/smaller coils only come with an increase in switching frequency. Increase if "effective" switching frequency can be achieved by switching faster, using a multi-level or interleaved topology. Additional gate-channel isolation transformers as well as fuses will ultimately result in more semiconductors below the PCB. The additional semiconductors can then be used in parallel reduce losses and allow for higher switching frequency. Alternatively a multi-level or interleaved topology could be used to achieve a similar result.

[@ronaldlenz5745]

Hello Team Munro, a heads up. You missed a couple of variants of the Model S in 2019 and 2020. A 23:29 you show a table of pack sizes, model years and efficiencies. I own a June 2020 Model S AWD Long Range Plus, EPA rated at 402 miles. It is nominal ~100 kWh. A few months prior there was a 397 mile version. This was the base Model S. There were no 85 kWh packs for sale and only a Performance Model s above it. After 14K+ miles my weighted average efficiency is 245 watt-hours per mile.

[@justinhealey-htcohio3798]

Amazing Vids!!!! If I lived up in Michigan I would love to work for Monro! Learning all the juicy details about this amazing technology would be so interesting and fulfilling!!

[@Resist4]

The weather in Michigan would change your mind. Arctic in the winter and hot humid in the summer. I grew up there and would never move back.

[@devilsoffspring5519]

@@Resist4 Apparently a lot of the northern-most States are like living in Canada, here we have long, awful winters and the humidity in the summer sucks. Summers can be nice, but are much too short to be worth the aggravation of waiting all winter for them.

[@bradley3549]

@@Resist4 It's still worth it because it keeps most people away! Of course, Auburn Hills is practically tropical weather compared to where I live. I wouldn't mind moving that far south and I'd love to get to reverse engineer automobiles all day.

[@robertpsotka3525]

Start by spelling MUNRO correctly

[@BreiteSeite]

Ben you did a good job!

[@rwdplz1]

Backward compatibility would be a HUGE plus for Tesla, with all the component shortages, and wait times for service parts.

[@ivankuljis1780]

'MASTERPIECE'& '$YMPHONY' Both words used in describing Tesla in the last two MUNRO LIVE TEARDOWNS NO TEARS AND NOTHING PHONY HEAR!

[@wiredwebmaster]

Another great video, thanks for sharing Sandy. PS: Hope you hire someone from Canada, as well, they really showed the world what's possible.

[@foam27]

like what?

[@rogerstarkey5390]

You know Sandy is from Canada?

[@joetz1]

@@foam27 maybe he is talking about the protests happening over there

[@nas4apps]

Each year many Canadian Tesla drivers engage in Tesla winter-hardening testing .... ;) But there are also plenty of Norwegians on a similar track. Would assume that this is great feedback-country adding to regular winter-conditions tests.

[@KnowArt]

feels like the camera was more shaky in this episode and pointing to more random points. But could be my imagination. Thanks for the insights. great video as always

[@GET2222]

Tesla speed of innovation is unreal. Stunning.

[@Cloxxki]

Ahem. We are a decade on from the first Model S.

[@GET2222]

@@Cloxxki correct. The fastest fucking production car in the world. That is innovation at its finest and no one other than a $3.2 million Rimac is remotely close. Thanks for proving my point.

[@jadamcak]

20:16 fuses... model S is for Global market, so 3 phase (2 fuses per phase, probably 16A) and model Y was only for US market, so 240V@64A(4 fuses per 16A). I dont know, I only think loudly ;)

[@kantameena9668]

Loving the Plaid series

[@xawastin]

Wow again You have all the best top notch engineers! Amazing

[@TheDaf95xf]

Very interesting as always 🤩🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@kiwiskiz]

The coil on the output of the older charger and the ferrite core on the output of the newer pack serve the same purpose - reducing the amount of common mode voltage (positive DC waveform) outputting to the battery pack. This is pretty much the same as the filter you will see on many laptop dc power supplies.

[@visiontransformation]

Nice over view. The details make the difference indeed. Inspiring to say the least!

[@djbowler3333]

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you drive the battery to zero state of charge before the teardown? For safety purposes.

[@pasmas3217]

just a guess from sb who is curious on the same question: probably driving the battery to 0 pretty much kills or at least harms the cells (talking about actual 0, not 0%) and they want to do tests on the cells both about energy dencity, charging, other stuff and chemistry given that they write detailed reports on the car that they sell to other companies (competitors)...

[@senftube2460]

0% doesnt mean there is no more voltage, its still dangerously high. You would only discharge for fire savety reasons which is no serious concern if the battery isnt mechanically or thermally stressed

[@arguanmodeth]

The batteries are pretty much harmless they're only 85 volts and as long as you don't complete a circuit you're good. it's not like ac where if you touch one wire and you're grounded your toast

[@lyfandeth]

Mica is a cheap natural "rock" which is not flammable and not combustible. Damned good barrier between high power and people.

[@Ethan-kr9bh]

Apparently, a lot of mica is sourced from India where it's mined by children as young as 4 and 5 years old. Of course, I only just learned about this from watching a youtube documentary specific to the mica used in makeup. I have no idea if industrial mica relies on the same source of child labor. Either way, I agree with Sandy, it would be better if we didn't need yet another unique mined resource for our EVs.

[@lyfandeth]

@@Ethan-kr9bh I suppose Tesla could use large sheets of the same synthetic sapphire used for watch crystals, and we could be sure ? it wasn't from child labor. Other than that, and the curious tan color not matching what mica usually is (i.e. clear stove-glass doors) I don't know of any material that has the same strengths. Maybe Sandy does. As for child labor, that's a whole other problem and a hugely questionable assumption to toss in here.

[@gerrycrisostomo6571]

That is correct. Mica is tough, does not melt or catch fire and is a good insulator even when it gets hot, while plastic melts easily and is very flammable when hot. I remember when I was a kid, my dad fixed an old electric clothes iron from the 1950s era and he showed me the mica that was used for insulation because it is much better and safer than asbestos. And that is also the reason why Tesla uses mica for the same purpose, as an electric and heat insulator.

[@lifedouble2461]

Instead of laying the 2 parts flat horizontally, it might be clearer for viewers to view your layout vertically. Against the wall or whiteboard.always love your Tear Down information and improvements

[@eddiemoy]

85kwh battery pack is old, they have since introduced the 90 and 100 kwh battery packs on the previous generation Model S and X. They were called the 90D, P90DL, 100D, and P100DL.

[@davidglieder8862]

Yes and the 100 pack actually has more cells and higher capacity than the plaid pack.

[@Cloxxki]

@@davidglieder8862 Well noted. Would you have the Wh/kg for these latest cells please, also in relation to previous 100 packs?

[@kstaxman2]

Always amazed at how Tesla does even the smallest detail

[@alanmay7929]

Lol…..

[@CarlWithACamera]

When they showed the underside of the filter board housing there are two blank coil housings. They should have drawn the insight that those are likely either utilized in another vehicle or will be. I’m thinking cybertruck. So the filter board housing is likely designed for multiple vehicles.

[@amimartian]

No, it was just dumb original design. Instead of having a large transformer to reduce outlet voltage at the input as on the Model Y they allow higher voltage to flow through down the line and then use smaller transformers (as they now have 4) to further reduce the voltage. The coil at far left end was used as part of the LC filter, which in the latest version is replaced by a ferrite choke (to suppress high frequency noise).

[@CarlWithACamera]

@@amimartian Thanks for that clarification.

[@pilatomic]

​@@amimartian I understand your confusion, since the input coils on the older design really look like plain mains transformer, but both older and newer version are 3 phases switching converter designs ( @50/60Hz, you simply cannot pass several kW of power through any transformer small enough to fit here). The missing input coil were inductor ( probably common mode ones ), designed to prevent "leaking" the high frequencies into the mains. As Mikeselectricstuff said in his comment, I think they simply increased the working frequency of the converters, which requires far less filtering, hence the smaller input and output inductors ( roughly said, as frequency increases, magnetics can get much smaller and still perform the same job). The added small transformers looks like gate driving transformers, they are far too small for being part on the power path, this is probably related to the frequency change. Cannot wait to see more from Sandy on this subject.

[@ottard]

Ah, Munro Live must have fell out of my algorithm. Great to be back on track!

[@MunroLive]

If you subscribe and turn on the notification bell, you won’t miss a thing! 😄

[@arondaniel]

Quicker than a Bugatti and, at 101 MPGe, about twice as energy efficient as a Prius.

[@maxflight777]

A good observation!

[@ganymede3141]

And the build quality of a Trabant.

[@Cloxxki]

EVs tend to pull quicker than ICEs and Prius is a hybrid so MPGe doesn't have a chance. Just a funky arbitrary test. If you look at energy needed to produce the vehicle, you're not going to like the numbers. Hence you don't know let alone mention them.

[@kyotosunsetdreams6105]

@@ganymede3141 🤡

[@ganymede3141]

@@kyotosunsetdreams6105 Don't like the inconvenient truth, eh? 💩

[@ivankuljis1780]

Sandy throwing down 'The Gauntlet' to every car Manufacturer! PERIOD

[@sjokomelk]

The number of fuses on the charger is different versions for US 2-phase 240V power, and European/international 230/400V 3-phase. Most likely the Plaid will use the same 3-phase charger in all markets, only configured differently with the charge port connector and software.

[@charlesball6519]

Actually, US 240V is still single phase. It's just two 120V lines off the same phase from the powerlines.

[@jm-btt]

@@charlesball6519 The phases are different (180º), agree ?

[@charlesball6519]

@@jm-btt Not even 180 degrees apart. As I said, for single family houses in the US, it's a single transformer connected to one phase of the main feeder lines. The transformer supplies two 120V lines and a neutral to the house off that one phase. Only in apartments, condos and commercial businesses is there actual 3 phase power where you get 120V, 208V, 240V and even 480V (This is accomplished by three transformers on one utility pole)

[@quantummotion]

"What's your cycle time.....60 seconds"? The question on a lot of people's minds!

[@CausticLemons7]

"More charge in less weight." That's why we consumers like to hear!

[@stephenwhite1372]

Knights of the rectangular battery!

[@thexential7461]

High respect for Sandy for acknowledging that you don't necessarily need a degree to be an engineer.

[@carpenter3069]

Phlogopite mica remains stable at higher temperatures (to 900 °C (1,650 °F)) and is used in applications in which a combination of high-heat stability and electrical properties is required. Muscovite and phlogopite are used in sheet and ground forms. Wikipedia

[@electricviking]

Great video guys - loved it!

[@kitecattestecke2303]

Wearing a plastic shield around an explosiv will help together with fleece jacket thats burns nicely on your skin!

[@davidglieder8862]

I don’t quite get why you chose to compare it to the very old 85kWh pack instead of the actual predecessor the 100kWh pack of the Ludicrous Models. Compared to that the new one actually has less cells and a lower capacity.

[@AGUADILLAN1]

Maybe because they didn't tare down the P100D and do not have that battery pack to compare?

[@brianb-p6586]

@@AGUADILLAN1 Sure, but the P100D battery specs are readily available.

[@margarita8442]

mica is found in old toasters etc -- fire resistance

[@SimonEllwood]

Plaid can AC charge at 16kW 3 phase AC so maybe that explains the extra fuses.

[@brianb-p6586]

3-phase AC charging is a common feature in Europe, not new and not unique to the Plaid.

[@SimonEllwood]

@@brianb-p6586 The 3 is only 11kW Three Phase, I have charged mine at that at destination chargers.

[@brianb-p6586]

@@SimonEllwood 16 kW versus 11 kW wouldn't explain the number of fuses.

[@AbcAbc-be7ku]

I appreciate listening to both of your expertise.

[@miken4591]

I love how Munro uses metric measures as a preference, so the non-US 95% of the world can understand.

[@ChadCourtneyTAZ427]

Interesting you focused on the coil reduction, but didn't mention the Ceramic and Film Capacitor's were significantly increased - I'd be interested to see what the filter curve from that, but shows you can change things up. Also interested in seeing the cost difference of reducing the inductors but significantly increasing the capacitors.

[@martylawson1638]

I've only done this tradeoff on a tiny filter, but using more capacitors vs inductors is generally more expensive but smaller and more efficient.

[@RaglansElectricBaboon]

Nice info as usual. But.... I'm confused by your choice of comparisons in the range/efficiency charts. Why did you pick a 70D? It gives a false sense of a sudden step up in range. There's been 90D and 100D variants for ages. The increase in efficiency line makes sense but the range one is misleading.

[@1091tube]

An incredible video, thank you for it... seriously helpful for the owner... and anyone interested in how things are made.

[@johnnylee8194]

ben is little stiff on camera. exactly how brainy person should behave. its endearing :)

[@Stefan_Dahn]

Personalities of individuals are different, but "All are PRO at MUNRO!" 😁

[@sammiller6631]

There is no "should" in how a brainy person can act. Everyone is different.

[@foam27]

@@Stefan_Dahn I don't know abbout that when they are calling choke coils transformers :p

[@1flash3571]

@@foam27 Munro corrected himself after making a mistake.

[@foam27]

@@1flash3571 timestamp?

[@okharren]

love the hospital tray tables in the background, very handy

[@Miata822]

It will be interesting to see if we hear about that DC-DC converter once someone who understands it takes a look.

[@lorenracicot7814]

Hello, Can you do an deep dive into how the potting material in contained and how Tesla prevents leakages during manufacturing?

[@CookiePepper]

Backward compatibility is easier one. Future compatibility is not easy.

[@amimartian]

Ever since Sandy became a Tesla shareholder - Tesla can do no bad. They even justified old cells, modules and compared this 100KWh battery with the original 85KWh one from 2016 and surprise surprise it’s better!

[@Cloxxki]

The new cells were never good for high C loads though. By lack of vast better chemistry with lower internal resistance, heat dissipation is still a huge factor. 18650 better than 2170. The overhead saved in 2170 is line 3% or so for energy density, but sure saves manufacturing cost.

[@brandoYT]

Model S has more battery power than Model 3/Y -- may explain extra components. saving part numbers too

[@chriselliott2485]

The purpose of the mica layer could be for thermal insulation, as mica has a very low coefficient of thermal conductivity. So the battery could be operating at higher temps without transferring that heat to the cabin.

[@amimartian]

Correct.

[@brianb-p6586]

I think it's hilarious that one comment claims the mica is used because of its high thermal conductivity, while another says that it is used because of its low thermal conductivity. In fact it's similar to glass - neither a good insulator nor good conductor, thermally. It can handle high temperatures compared to common insulators, which is likely the reason for using it.

[@chriselliott2485]

Mica is a fascinating material, and you certainly can find uses of it which claim for both high and low thermal conductivity. Given the location, the low conductivity forms ( like this www.addevmaterials.eu/catalog/composition/mica) seem the most reasonable. However you are free to draw your own conclusions.

[@Moocowsia]

Mica presumably wouldn't have much of an environmental impact to mine. It should basically just be quarried and ground up. Certainly not comparable to mining metals, milling them, and refining them. Is this stuff a mica impregnated plastic?

[@Cloxxki]

Let alone refining oil to plastics.

[@lenimbery7038]

90% charge? Just wondering why you wouldn't have run the battery down to about 5% before you started the tear down?

[@peterzerfass4609]

Apart from confusing kW with kWh...good video.

[@dachopper1]

Mica? Electromagnetic shielding to stop cars bricking from EMF pulses or solar radiation peaks?

[@transendre1]

For future shows: how about details on conducting quality control ? How do designers and manufacturers test for robustness, safety, resiliency, stress, repeatability, ...etc.

[@ymcpa73]

You can't really get that info from a teardown. You can see that the packaging is tight. Tesla's issue with quality control usually involves things like panel gaps and seals. You rarely see people complain about the powertrain.

[@Ficon]

It’s a Tesla. They don’t. That’s why they are on their third recall this year, still broken heat pumps, now missing hardware in cars sold as FSD-capable. Chrysler made better cars in the 1980s.

[@JohnSmith-pn2vl]

@@Ficon wow, if thats true tesla has the least recalls of the entire industry, mercedes had 18 last december alone for example. of course they test everything and learn from the customer experiecne , there is no better way, no matter how much you test, the real test is the customer.

[@markplott4820]

see - Dave Lee , interview w/ Joe Justice former Tesla.

[@Dan-gd2rk]

this clown nor tesla have a clue about quality control

[@Raylen_Fa-ield]

Beautiful! What you guys do is just beautiful!

[@MK4lyfe]

By putting these videos up, what stops another car company taking Tesla's engineering ideas? Legit question really like to know! Thanks!

[@MsLemon97]

Whats stopping them from buying the car and taking apart themselves?

[@JosefHabdank]

Engineering time. They can do it, but while competition is working on catching, Tesla would have moved forward. Catching Tesla is trying to catch an animal that is faster then you and is running away. Even if you run after it, it will only get further and further away with time.

[@Stefan_Dahn]

@@MsLemon97 All companies are butchering all competitor cars since decades. Daily business.

[@sammiller6631]

Uploading engineering idea videos raises all boats (or cars). If it makes other cars better, that's a win for customers.

[@Cryogenic1981]

Kudos to them if they can copy Tesla ... so far they showed they have trouble even doing that.

[@ardenpeters2952]

Fascinating comments! Such a good non-commercial site; Tesla stretches it’s lead!!

[@jeffreyhampton9130]

Very nice job! Keep ‘em coming.

[@ElectricDanielBoone]

@5:26 those "heavily machined" cooling connectors are intriguing. Inlets and outlets on the same side of the pack too. At first glance it seems like that would make the far end of the pack much warmer than the connector end. Coolant would pick up heat from the cells then turn around and bring that heat right back. Unless the coolant always remained cooler than the cell, then cell cooling would merely decrease due to the lower dt. For that simple flow pattern they wouldn't need those fancy connectors though. So yes, it'll be interesting to see what's happening in those connectors.