What Causes Violin "Shaky Bow" and How You Can Fix It

[@rudolf5792]

I'm a young professional violinist. I perform so much, but the shaky bow was always an issue. Not so much for slow bows, but actually for the times when I wanted to achieve a 'bigger' sound. That's when the shakes happened to me. I was so frustrated, because i was sure everything was right with my right arm, but never did I even think about my trap muscles. That was a GAME CHANGER! Just this one simple thing helped me a lot. Thank you so much!

[@Xerkun]

This was an excellent presentation. I am an adult learner with this problem so I appreciate the distinction between children and adult learning, and how adults have extra tension just because that is normal for adults.

[@christianbinder7256]

This is the first video which helped me making the bouncing bow problem at least a huge amount smaller. Thanks Murphy!

[@johnbat6743]

Thank you! I have googled SO many times looking for online info as to why the bow bounces now I'm relearning as an adult when it never did when I learnt as a teenager. I have huge problems with neck tension and my back which has improved massively since I started playing again and doing it without a shoulder rest. This makes a lot of sense.

[@johnbat6743]

I just tried out what you said and guess what, I played Pachelbels Canon with next to NO BOUNCING!! Thank You!!!

[@SupertGTR]

Thank you for this video. I'm getting back into playing violin after an almost 30 year hiatus. I suddenly had shaky bow which I never had in college. Simply relaxing my right shoulder offered a marked improvement.

[@erzas556]

A big thanks for this genuinely explanations Edit: after a year from this video I never had a shaky bow at all and my shoulders are not stressed anymore. Thanks!

[@SarumChoirmaster]

I warm up doing everything you mentioned here in this video. BUT with doing simple unison and octave double-stops. I think this is one of THE hardest things to do with THE greatest positive results. Relaxation is sooooo important.

[@nesrin9307]

Thanks for sharing. Another cause of bow bouncing could lie within the elbow movement. Try to lie, fix your elbow onto the bed and start to play on the strings. Surprise! There is no shaking even if you contract your trapezius. The issue now is how to stabilise that joint in the air 😅

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

You are 100% correct! Anything that stabilizes the movement of the bow will contribute to better sound quality and, of course, no unwanted bouncing!

[@jaschenski]

A couple of exercises that have helped me - bow using just thumb and little finger, really relaxes shoulder as you say. Also - hold bow at frog with LH while at the point and slide your RH up the stick, for the natural line.

[@thomasmcshane7199]

Hey, thanks for the info. A relaxed shoulder is by far the most essential, but the most forgotten and overlooked technique. Your reminder and style of teaching got me right back on track!

[@jazzpiano26]

This video has helped me so much! I am a professional pianist and private instructor as well and this is very much the same advice I give to all my new students for the piano lolz! I am 31 and have just started learning how to play violin within the last 6 months and finally after watching this video I am able to create a smooth sound on my violin (obviously not consistently yet, I need to constantly remind myself to relax before starting to practice but still XD). It was very helpful and much appreciated!

[@axlcrush]

Thank you for your videos on the problems with the traps. I developed pain which my teacher also said is related to bow bouncing. Essentially , like you said, the unnecessary activation of the traps. And I am also an older player at 50, which is as you had observed the prevalence in older players.

[@nellieou]

Great explanation! I’ve always been told to “relax” but it was always such a vague solution. I loved hearing in detail what mechanics were making my bow bounce at the frog.

[@aaronmannila6764]

I can't believe you covered everything we've been working on (bow-technique) with my teacher this well. The excercises, the raised shoulder dilemma etc. I've improved vastly since last year thanks to my new teacher. You and him have quite similar ways of explaining things, perhaps twins separated at birth 😂. Keep up the good work. You inspire.

[@melasonos6132]

Always great content. Hopefully starting lessons again soon!!!

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

Hey man! I hope things are going better since we last spoke.

[@EuskaltelEuskadi]

Wow, I know you said this wasn't a quick fix, but I noticed an almost instant improvement in my playing when I forcibly relaxed my right shoulder as you demonstrated. It has also helped me play with a straighter bow. I have rounded shoulders and a lot of tension in my upper back so I think it's going to take a while before this becomes an unconscious part of my technique, but I can't believe none of my teachers ever suggested this could be the root of one of my violin problems! Thank you!

Extremely thorough explanation. I'm pretty athletic and a swimmer. Until seeing this I was completely unaware the muscles were doing that. Just being aware allowed me to start relaxing and improving my form. Also... practice in front of a mirror. Didn't make it perfect but a drastic improvement. Many thanks!

[@BarbCaruso]

I looked up help for bowing skipping and shake. and as soon as I saw Murphy I ignored the rest. Thank you.

[@nirwana911]

Invaluable insight! I'm a beginner struggling with shaky/bouncing bow, raising the scroll helps but never truly solved the problem... just realised i have a sizeable trap muscles!

[@HowdyJ]

Critical. Aaaabsolutely critical information! As someone who likes to work out and is actively working on my shoulders, I knew I had to be extra careful. And you know what, even in exercise, it’s extra important to keep your shoulders DOWN! So I learned that, but I forget when I play violin. I didn’t realize it was killing my bowing that much!

[@thomasdinan9667]

Thanks! I'm an adult beginner. This was very helpful.

[@louiscornell8637]

Thanks, Tobiah: that's a most helpful lesson. I'd like to add one observation. After watching your presentation, I paid careful attention to my right shoulder. Sure enough, there was tension whenever I commenced a down bow: I could keep my shoulder low and release the tension, but it would come right back. I wondered what the real source might be, and discovered that I was tensing my LEFT shoulder in an effort to compensate for a new, low-profile shoulder rest. Clearly, the tension in the left shoulder was communicating it to the other shoulder! After rearranging the setup, consciously keeping the left shoulder relaxed, and commencing the down bow with a relaxed right shoulder, I was pretty much able to keep the bow from shaking. Another win for your analytical approach to playing problems.

[@kathleenkeane4364]

Thanks for info.have the shakey bow some times, was told bow too tight, etc, never about the shoulder, must work on that.

[@jessamynfase5051]

I am so grateful I found this video. Tension in my trapezius muscles was causing the slight shake that was really annoying me. I’ve started practicing relaxing those as you’ve instructed and it really helps! I can see it will take a lot of practice to turn it into muscle memory but at least it’s now a possibility!!! Thank you!!!

[@1cleandude]

Great lesson Tobias thanks again for your time and expertise!🙏🏻

[@kellymcgrath5541]

knowing that the lifting/pushing "inflection point" was at the center of gravity for the bow basically solved the issue for me. Also relaxing my shoulders. This was wild, couldnt middle-bow yesterday.... now i can do a full bow (mostly)

[@johntheohioan257]

Excellent Mr. Murphy thank you! Almost completely resolved my bow bounce!

[@Sadtennis]

Ah, the wonderful neverending shaky bouncing bow! So, so frustrating.

[@garysimkins2179]

I very much admire your approach to teaching, in that you provide a concise and direct analysis of the particular issues. I had this problem in the beginning, and have slowly managed to sort of fix it, with the help of my teacher who stated that I was not engaging my forearm enough. This brings me to an issue that I hope you may consider covering in another future video. I developed a habit of my wrist bending slightly outwards, which has caused some pain in my thumb. I have to be very conscious that my elbow is under the violin enough, and so on, however the wrist still wants to assume this outward bend. My current teacher has offered some advice however she has also stated that this is normal in most cases. There is a violinist, Filip Pogady that recommends an outward bend to the wrist, so I have become a bit confused over the matter. Any advice from you would be profoundly appreciated. I have been studying for just over a year, and played the cello for many years, as an amateur. I sincerely love the violin, and wish that I had stuck with it when I was young where I played in grade school for about two years. Also, thank you for sharing all of this knowledge for free, it's invaluable, and I hope everyone appreciates that. I would very much like a lesson with you at some point as I think it might be the best way to get to the bottom of this issue.

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

The slight outward bend of the wrist is very common. Most violinists do it to one degree or another. However, having a slight inward bend is also not bad either and, if paired with the appropriate thumb position, can work quite well for some violinists. The best explanation of this is Rodney Friend's "The Violin in Fifths." He has a very interesting point of view (which he also demonstrates and has a student demonstrate) that if you have a "relaxed" wrist (slight inward bend) the motion of the arm up and down the fingerboard will be a lot simpler and more natural. Of course, I feel that is the way you'd have to be taught pretty early on, so while I really loved his videos and demonstrations, and experimented with it myself, it's not a manner of playing that I'll be taking up. In any case, you should experiment, hopefully with the help of your teacher, with what thumb and hand positions work best for you. Sevcik op.1 book 1 is a great place to start. Also, I've had students where I'd have them do the relaxed wrist, which fixed some problems in their hand, but who then went back to the slightly outward wrist after those problems were fixed. It can be a pretty long process to develop the individual's hand exactly where it should be. If you want a lesson, send an email to my administrator (link in the description of the video) and she'll set you up. Thanks for questions!

[@garysimkins2179]

@@MurphyMusicAcademy Thanks so much for your reply. There is no arguing that this instrument is extremely difficult, however I do have the patience to stick with it. I did also, for the last two days remove my shoulder rest and added a small pad. It was remarkable that my wrist is not bending outward as a result, and my intonation has vastly improved as well. I sent an email to the link provided the other day, however it was a rather lengthy one. I hope to hear from your administrator regarding a lesson in the future. Many Thanks, from Toronto.

[@mountainbiketobi4309]

Playing since December now. This helped me a lot. Thank you 👍

[@fernmiranda]

“Force does not work, only seduction.” Take my damn like AND my sub.

[@yasminetrinczek4529]

It helps, I can't believe it...thank you so much! Very intelligent presentation!

[@KC-cv9qb]

Thank you! This is exactly the advice I have been looking for.

[@alexkuamoo3874]

Thank you! I’m an adult beginner, and you’ve already helped me so much!

[@amandacollecutt2491]

thank you for the lesson

[@pragersowell]

Excellent teacher. Thanks

[@ch1llb1lly]

This was a fantastic video. around 2 months into playing and this clarified a lot I totally missed. Thank you.

[@barbaracraig7983]

Thank you! Excellent instruction

[@IvanGeorgievFilmMusicComposer]

This is a great collection of advices ❤ thank You Very Much 🎉

[@DieterLo1]

Thanks for good teachings. It is very helpful for me es beginner with Violin.

[@raff.sottorf]

Which chinrest do you use? I like that one.

[@angelicacantu3382]

This has been one of the best videos on the subject! Thank you!

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

Thanks! Glad I could help!

[@redbb]

I actually have issues with bouncy bows in the middle..

[@daniellambert1342]

Yup, me too!! Gunna try these techniques though to see if it helps

[@mohammads8126]

Thanks Alot for the great video. Ill be doing those exercises now daily

[@road2acoustic99]

That's now great advices, thanks you so much my bro, I like your optimism and your energy, you are a great teacher!

[@Violinist265]

Excellent vedio 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 thank you great advice fantastic 👏🏻

[@patriciacarson4229]

Could you give me tips on keeping my bow straight. I tend to slide up and down I started three years ago at age 70.

[@reecetilley585]

Im not good at explaining things, but I had that same problem and its a really easy fix. Your bow is sliding because when you do a down bow, you are also pulling your bow towards yourself which causes it to turn and then slide up and down, so you have to push your arm forward as you bow down to compensate for this, and keep it completely perpendicular to the string. For up bows its vice versa. Pull your arm towards you on up bows, and push your arm out on down bows. I hope this helped!!

[@borys7622]

Thank you for your work!

[@tungngo5592]

Very, very good. But please avoid standing in front of a window. The back light renders your image dark. Thanks

[@vitorciolettimorais]

Thank you for the knowledge. :)

[@ninabucknor2679]

Thankful for this!

[@oudandviolen9092]

Your amazing man

[@leannethompson4780]

Great information..Thank you!:)

[@ВадимБоднарь-м3з]

Thanks for great content! Please, could you make a video about shifting down without a shoulder rest (it was announced more than a year ago in video on shifting up)

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

I actually turned both videos into one big video. Go through the videos on my channel (there’s isn’t that many so it will be easy to find) and just look for the video on shifting. It covers both up and downward shifting

[@ВадимБоднарь-м3з]

@@MurphyMusicAcademy Thanks!

[@technicmachine]

Where can I find the bow distribution exercises you mentioned here 17:02 ?

[@MurphyMusicAcademy]

This is actually going to be in my next video. They are proprietary exercises I got from my old teacher, which he got from Dorothy DeLay, so there isn’t a book on them

[@kristentimothy8385]

I'm hoping this works I'm thinking what happens to me is I get very nervous so I tense up and my arm starts making my bow bounce

[@nadanything]

Amazing video ❤️❤️❤️

[@olgamarshall8965]

How tight do I have to make my bow.

[@JohanJohnJohnson]

Awesome!

[@pqsnet]

Interesting... Now i always find my self having the bumbing bow at the tip rather than the frog. I have no idea why, but i have. But the most problem is if its a difference in humidity, then it tend to live its own life due to the fact the tension in the bow drastically change.

[@kimseniorb]

fast bow tends to be easier. its when its slow and you’re doing wide vibrato while near the frog that mine starts jumping around

[@DiegoCristiC]

thanks, dude. i play some instruments since i was a child and a few weeks ago i started exploring the world of violin. i never thought i'd do this, and i must say that it is the hardest instrument i've ever played (considering electric/acoustic/classic guitar, bass, piano, harmonica, singing, etc). this instrument is particulary delicated, so subtile... totally the opposite if you compare it with bass guitar. you can hit it as hard as you want and it won't be K.O. i've watched MANY of your videos and i want to say that i'm really thankful. the material you share with us have been useful as f*ck for me. i want to send you a big hug from Chile... $hile, the ass of the world, and say thanks again. THERE AIN'T NO FUCKIN' PLEASURE IN MEDIOCRITY

[@kamalshahen3266]

I just made subscribe today i like your videos i am 26 started playing violin now am 27 i wish you help me i have manu issues

[@conniechan3280]

❤ thanks

[@PositivelyNice]

This is so good that I wanted to click like three times.

[@MGRVE]

Indeed, it comes from the shoulder. You helped me so much!! Thank you.

[@igoaaronlu8142]

謝謝😁

[@rl7651]

Many good points but I question the wisdom of pulling your "shoulders" down to offset the tendency to lift the "shoulders" up. It seems to me two wrongs don't make a right. With regard to pulling the "shoulders" down, you risk putting pressure on the nerves and blood vessels that pass below the collarbone into your thoracic cavity which can lead to thoracic outlet syndrome because the shoulder blade and collarbone are connected and considered part of your arm- if you move one you automatically move the other. Putting pressure downward can exacerbate the conditions that lead to nerve pain and circulatory issues in that region. The only safe way to keep your "shoulders" from lifting up is to find neutral, the place of no work, just as you describe with the bow resting on the string using its natural weight without excess "pressure" from the arm to draw the tone.

[@Heli0s5602-y]

9:00

[@fellipedemoraes3748]

Everything sounds like common sense, and that’s what I liked about it.

[@coltwalkerofficial]

11:22 homeboys liked hearing that

[@alexkuamoo3874]

7:39

[@rajuak2783]

Please tech very slowly l cannot understand

[@newstyle81]

You fix my bow after 7 years of playing

[@fateindustry]

Son filé. That usually wasn't taught in my early days.

[@Heli0s5602-y]

11:35

[@barbarajaneward]

Yes I heard it “force does not work, only seduction”…….

[@Gelathius]

Unfortunately I can't move my fingers because of my disability haha

[@nightowl480]

Yuck! You are one of those teachers that tells "bad" students to quit playing violin. I've had so many teachers tell me I'm not good enough, I should quit. It's very strange why this is so common among violin teachers. Noone gets better by getting shamed. Especially insecure students with low self esteem, they get better by encuragement. However, everything else you say in your teaching videos are good. Keep up the good work.

[@petebard]

So much TALK is distracting! Petting to the point QUICKLY would help.

[@petebard]

GETTING to the point!!!!

[@reecetilley585]

​@@petebardif you click the 3 dots at the top right of your message youll be able to edit it, so you dont need to correct it here

[@4570george]

You have the potential to have a great channel, just stop being confrontational and so forceful. "Trust me, subscribe..." are you serious?