Murray Carter on Scandi Grinds

[@marung9967]

"just grind that sucker back" Best advice ive herd! Im tired of all the BS on which grind is best etc, etc. Thanks Mr Carter. i will be doing just that.

[@nebulamask81]

What a boss. He's in the middle of a massive earthquake but this man doesn't care, he's here to give out useful grind information. Props.

[@niqvuk]

Literally the best video on grinding your edge ive ever seen. This explains everything and now i cant finally go sharpen my blades with an understand of the short and long term goals. Thanks Murray youre the best

[@CarterCutlery]

Some viewers have pointed out to us that for wood carving, a proper Scandi grind is better than a blade with both a secondary and primary edge. We agree. However, for a general purpose EDC knife, such a task-specific edge is not likely to hold up to general use. The overarching point of the video, though, is that if an owner is not satisfied with the grind on their knife, they should get busy experimentally grinding their blades with stones and discover what works best for them.

[@LastBastian]

Same here *shannonandsheila1.* I kept hearing how superior scandi ground knives are for woodworking, so I bought and even made a few. My experience is that a true scandi with no secondary edge ends up being *far* too fragile for any real cutting or carving task. I find the edge just mangles at simplest of use. And on top of that, It doesn't even seem to carve or whittle any better than my full convex blades. And they show remarkable durability and edge holding.

[@artheen4713]

If you're carving, you *never* hit a knot. Not only do you pick wood and read the grain, but you also always use fully controlled cuts. If you can't stop your cut, it's not carving, it's chopping.

[@jamesaritchie1]

When I was young, I knew a LOT of old time hunters, trappers, and woodsmen of every type. Men who made their living from the wilderness in one way or another. All of them carried and used knives on a daily basis. None of them would use a Scandi grind on their primary fixed blade knife for just the reasons you outline here. And you're right, a knife is not for batoning. In fact, batoning was invented by a marketer who had a bad knife he couldn't sell, not by a woodsman. Batoning with a knife is never, ever necessary, and shows a lack of knowledge about woodcraft, and about the tools you should be carrying. "Survival" knives may be the worst offenders. Somehow, probably from watching Rambo movies, people got the idea that a survival knife should be very large, and a quarter of an inch thick. That's nonsense. It's as silly as a screen door on a submarine. And unless you're psychic and know when you're going to need a survival knife, in which case you should just stay home, you won't have that big knife with you, anyway. No one carries a knife like that for EDC. But many knives out there are so thick they're really just hatchets with bad handles. s thin as possible while still being strong enough to do the job should be rule number one with any knife. Anyway, I've found a straight Scandi grind is the best grind out there for carving green wood, but it's not as good for many other tasks as a convex, a sabre, and a flat grind, depending on the tasks, and the blade you're working with.

[@artheen4713]

Different grinds for different purposes. A flat grind is useful for *pushing* through wood, but not the best for slicing and useless for chopping. A good scandi grind can do many jobs that you otherwise need a chisel for, but most of what people use a knife for isn't that kind of cutting. For me, it allows me to do things like cut into a knife wall in a fraction of the time that a chisel would take, whittle down a peg to size in a controlled manner, or skivving leather. But for most other uses, there are better knives. As for bushcraft, a small handaxe is a much better tool. It not only chops, but cuts, slices, splits, carves, butchers and much more.

[@jaylane82]

I like the simplicity of this sharpening explanation. Very cool. :-)

[@mlongley]

Thanks for the great info Murry. I have wondered how to improve my scandi knives. I will definitely try this out.

[@CliffStamp]

At about 5 mins or so is nice description of how a dual grind can achieve high cutting ability and still have high edge durability by varying the grind so the strength is where it is needed, and not where it isn't.

[@manga12]

Cliff Stamp I am too nervous to try to do secondary bevels though, most sharpening I do is broadheads always haveing to sharpen them as I shoot those since that is what I hunt with, no time for field points, I hunt with broadheads not field points so I want to be able to shoot those in various conditions of wind and heat to see how to adjust. but they dull constantly the one is so dull it wont even cut my skin, but I want it robust as you can always take more off but not add on, and since its a single bevel its harder to sharpen since only a 2 degree on the flat part and 20 on the primary edge front, still gets 12 inches into a rinheart archery target even when dull, and will spit hard stuff like wood and bone all day long when tested on that, but cant seem to get my stuff really sharp what they call hunting sharp.

[@CliffStamp]

manga12 It actually doesn't matter on a fundamental level if it is a broadhead or knife or axe, the principles of sharpening are the same. If you can sharpen a knife you can sharpen anything. Just think about what you are doing.

[@manga12]

I enjoy sharpening and refinning the edge, but I cant hold steady it seems so I take forever to get anywhere, and meanwhile you have other archers that can do it in 2 minuts and I am there with a fine file trying to get it straght again, its irratating even with the three blade I have which I dont often shoot, I cant get it sharp with the methods they use, and when I do it is not shaving sharp, I attest and sware my cutlery dont like me and is fighting me, but many say I am just not holding the knife or blade straight even though I am trying my best.

[@CliffStamp]

manga12 This may sound silly, however the main reason you are struggling is that you think it is very difficult. Relax, imagine it is working perfect, believe it is working perfect and it will be. This might sound all hippy-flippy, but if you focus on something being very hard to do your brain will actually think you want it to be hard so it will make it happen.

[@manga12]

I just cant get it sharp the way that I would like to :

[@FiredUpKnifeandTool]

i just want to personally thank you for what you do i was given one of your books for christmas 2015 and had started forging knives a couple months prior i have learned much from your books and videos and hope to join the ABS myself here soon ...that being said i am mostly self taught a great deal of trial and error first through blacksmithing (off and on since i was 10 years old i am now 31) and now into blade smithing but ive always preferred a scandi grind as my primary edge and i keep that as my main method in my blades as well i try to stay somewhere in the vicinity of a 17-20 degree grind and so far everyone who has one of my knives has been extremely happy with its performance and ease of sharpening even with a guided sharpening system such as the edge pro series ive found many people prefer scandi grinds to those with a secondary bevel .... i am by no means attempting to argue the point this is just my personal experience .... i truly hope that someday my blades will be as well regarded as your own however i freely admit that day will be years down the road lol and perhaps i will even come out to take a class or two someday who knows what life may bring! thank you sir for all that you do and may your forge never grow cold

[@68RMP]

Great Video Murray! I couldn't agree with you more! I tell a lot of my customers the same thing. It's the same ole story. It all comes down to proper heat treat and temper and proper edge geometry.

[@TheWtfnonamez]

Damn..... there are actually people that could teach a PhD in knife sharpening. Thank you for your video and the advice. +1

[@aborovina15]

This is an excellent video. Thanks Murray

[@undergroundblu]

Thank you for the priceless advise. Much appreciated!

[@manifestgtr]

Oh my god, yes...the very last statement couldn’t be more spot on. I play guitar professionally and so sometimes I cruise the comments on those videos. “I was told I need a .044uF capacitor to sound good....047 is choking my tone”. Ready? If you gave Stevie Ray *your* strat, you know who he’d sound like? Stevie Ray. There’s no shortcut to brilliance. You need to love the work, love the process of getting better and enjoy the ride. And throw out your guided systems while you’re at it. Using a guided system isn’t a skill, it’s a task.

[@acornknives]

As with anything unfamiliar, there is a learning curve. The puukko, for instance, excels at shaving cuts, and is held at a slightly different angle. For some tasks, you may use a whole different strategy. A good example would be cutting leather... With a puukko, trying to just cut a hide through the middle, the blade will wonder, due to the effect of wedging. It would be better to lay the leather flat on the board and make multiple cuts with a straight edge. There are many factors that go into the decisions of what geometry to use for which task or technique. The more the end user knows about how to use a knife, what materials they cut, how to sharpen etc., the better they will be able to choose what knife will work for them. There is a reason there are so many different knives, and there is a reason why a design sticks around for hundreds of years.

[@chrisgibson2328]

Good advice....that wobbly wall made me think I was having a flashback 😵🤣

[@CandidZulu]

I'm from Sweden. My experience with old scandi ground knives is that they usually have a scandi-vex ground to them. Usually this is because they were sharpened on a hollow natural whetstone for years. Or they were sharpened on a traditional grind stone freehand. The scandi grind is probably just the simplest edge the factory (or blacksmith) could put on a utilitarian tool and have it leave his shop as fast as possible.

[@mariaconcepcionrodriguezhe2850]

Yes i really doubt the scandigrind ever existed before modern industry When i was in sweden one of my bros had a old fullflat ground leuku

[@SA-fx4id]

Arm chair warrior! So funny. Good video lots of information.

[@fungt89]

So true. Thought my blade didn't retain the edge as well as it should and the answer wasn't just youtube armchairing of a "perfect edge" but actually experimenting with the stones and adjusting both angle and height. Not to mention improving actual sharpening technique.

[@COMB0RICO]

The explanation of why mass knife producers create thicker-than-necessary blades makes a lot of sense. As does the advice to make knives thin-to-failure, then backing it off a little. (Yeah, I like hyphens; they increase readability.)

[@dennisleighton2812]

Wow! That one came from way out left field! I think I'll have to take some time out to consider the implications of what you say, because you seem to have broken about six dozen bushcrafting "rules" there, not to mention putting forward some serious heresies into the bargain. Dismantling Scandi grind? Man, you're brave! It's refreshing!

[@Person-uz5lw]

you have to find the balance too though. If you make your secondary bevel too long or too acute, yes, it'll cut like a laser BUT it will also be more brittle. So you gotta find the happy medium push and pull between the angle and depth of the secondary grind so it cuts great but is still strong enough not to bend, rollover, or chip

[@CRILLER3]

my experience Helle from norway always come insanely sharp ( IMO ) there is NO need for a second bevel..

[@dammitman1664]

Yes, but at some point that knife, or any knife Will have to be sharpened, Regardless of how sharp it was when purchased.

[@brian6174b]

Mr. Carter, can you do a video on how to sharpen a pair of scissors?

[@ApesGoinWild2nd]

I heard that original Scandis were actually hollow ground a bit, so you could still rest the blade flat on the stone, but you didn't have as much metal to remove

[@gilbertopadilla3611]

ApesGoinWild2nd - I read that the reason they were somewhat hollow ground, was because the sharpening was done on a sharpening wheel.

[@lalli8152]

@@gilbertopadilla3611 You can make flat, convex or hollow on wheels. In fact not that long ago grinding wheels used to be how knives were ground. Murray has mentioned in some of his video how to do it free hand. For example convex you grind it with rolling motion, in flat you move the bevel in up/down motion against the wheel. Its no different to free hand sharpening really (rolling motion to convex for example) the difficult part is to do it all in exact steady motion that the grinds are even. Mora factory for example still keeps their grinding wheels on display they are massive though, and the large radius i guess made flat grind easier for workers.

[@lalli8152]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eH3RoqVsfqyJndU i ordered two bare blades made by this guy Kustaa Lammi. He used the traditional grinding wheel i have heard to do all his knives called tahko in finnish. Because he liked the fact they dont over heat the blade. Many even old puukkos had secondary bevel like mine has, and the second smaller blade i got is slightly convexed feels like. They seem to put micro bevels in this video too on the puukko blades, but they dont look like hollow at all

[@speckledjim5402]

+CarterCutlery - I want my knife to easily skin and butcher, but also require it to bone. I use a slightly less steep angle on my relief and primary edge. This means my blade requires stropping once through the animal, however the edge doesn't get damaged during boning. It's the great debate of sharp or robust. I only want to carry one knife in the bush and so I make my general purpose knives in the middle ground. Thanks for passing on your knowledge.

[@BoltonMaverickoutdoors]

Just spent 16 hrs hand grinding a secondary bevel off a used knife that was originally a scandi grind

[@mariaconcepcionrodriguezhe2850]

Excelent advice

[@AndrewWorkshop]

The video has the youtube shaky correction on. I've made the same mistake, youtube asks if it can fix your video for you, always say no.

[@CarterCutlery]

Andrew W We made the mistake of holding the camera rather than using the tripod. The stabilization is an improvement but makes it look like the room is moving.

[@Lars1540]

It makes me almost motion sick! Lol

[@Inshokuten69]

I think the camera had quite a few drinks right before filming lol. Good info, but yeah the camera made me feel a bit queasy.

[@keghinian]

Well said and explained.

[@osmiumgus8025]

Thanks Murray, appreciated.

[@schizm101]

Im seasick.

[@InLakech_AlaKin]

Yeah what is up with all that motion?

[@tiortedrootsky]

I guess the initial video was very shaky, so they used some program to "fix" it

[@cameron3525]

🤣🤣🤣

[@shihrotakama431]

This is off topic but where do you get the red clay mud (akatsuchi doro) that you coat your blades with prior to quenching? If it is from Japan is there something similar that I could use for mine?

[@SoapAcademy]

Great advice!

[@frixux]

You recommended 10degree angle ?

[@NikosLynch]

When you say obtuse angle, does that mean bring the angle back all the way to the convex or start a secondary bevel?

[@artheen4713]

Unfortunately, he's talking about adding a secondary microbevel, which defeats the point of a scandi grind. With a full zero grind, you can rest the blade on the bevel and take off infinitely thin shavings. And you can cut more difficult woods without splitting, because the edge always touches the wood. Add a secondary bevel and those advantages are gone. It's still going to be a useful knife for everything an "ordinary" knife can do, but not for the tasks that require flat edges all the way. I can only presume that Murray Carter never does tasks that require a flat edge, like finishing up imperfections left by a smoothing plane or sanding paper, cutting inlay grooves with a knife, or carving "difficult" woods like pine. Otherwise he would never have recommended this, at least not without mentioning the penalties of doing so.

[@b-radg916]

It's true, in this case he's suggesting adding a microbevel. In general, an "obtuse" angle is larger than an "acute" angle.

[@arshanmostafavi9621]

Do fixed angle sharpeners , for example the Edge pro, Hapstone, wicked edge , Kme, and TSprof allow for true zero Scandi sharpening?

[@Rottidog68]

I believe, depending on the position/distance of the blade holder in relation to the edge they would. You would just be there for days removing all that metal in order to get a 1/3 of blade height scandi grind. 1/3 just being an example. You would be putting an elongated primary edge, hence a scandi.

[@GravityRoller]

@Spitch Grizwald Simply need a method for compensating/adjusting for variances in stone thickness between stones. One example that I use for this purpose, is a drill collar modification/addition to the EdgePro.

[@44szaman]

Yes yes OK! Irs very good idea! Better grind! Good luck!

[@jamesaritchie2]

A Scandi convex makes sense, though I find most have real trouble sharpening one properly in the woods. To me, a true secondary bevel does not The most popular, and I think the best, Scandi grind knives come from the factory with a high apex, and a very thin edge. They're razor sharp. I haven't seen a secondary bevel on such knives that can stand up to real use. If you want to baton wood right, get a hatchet. It amazes me how few know that a hatchet is excellent at batoning wood It's what the blade is shaped for, and it's beefy enough to baton forever without breaking. My experience is that if a Scandi doesn't hold up for general use, the grind is poor. An edge can be too thin, and if you have to sharpen the knife every few minutes when using it hard, you need more metal behind the edge. Much of this is personal taste and personal experience, of course, and your mileage may vary. I prefer a fairly thin blade, a high apex, and an inclusive angle of about twenty-two degrees. But, I also carry a quality slip joint pocketknife with three blades that does a lot of my EDC work when I'm in town, so my experience and judgment is going to be somewhat different than someone else's who doesn't carry a quality pocketknife with more than one blade. Just as there's no one size fits all, there's also no one knife that does everything well.

[@artheen4713]

For fine carving, I'd recommend a bevel of less than 15 degrees, and preferably closer to 10. Yes, you have to hone the edge every few minutes, but that's part of the craft. And no, you definitely don't want a secondary bevel, unless you want to lose the ability to shave infinitely thin shavings or cut difficult woods without tearing.

[@kas9633]

I liked this video. Well said.

[@JBCaudillKnives]

I'm a fan of a flat grind. Like he says, it's got to be thin to cut its best. To thin it will chip, not thin enough it won't cut as good.

[@norby0418]

Why do I constantly hear comments that scandi grinds are only good for carving.?

[@lalli8152]

Its i think the short bevels many scandis comes with. Then if its thick blade as well its definetly not slicy for softer stuff. Mora gets away with it with thin blade, but at least imho moras are too mainly woodworking knives, but ok for other stuff. Then if its high ground scandi bevels comes chipping, and secondary beveling potentially to make it work. Theres no perfect grind for all work, and its all about finding the balance.

[@prioritytree]

I’ve always thought the same thing he described. He is vindicating everything I have been saying as well.

[@Battle-Born-]

Couldn't agree with you more :)

[@glytch5]

Never put a micro bevel on a scandi. I agree with about 95 percent of murray, but if you thin your scandi way down, and then come in and beef it up at the edge, hence putting in a micro bevel, you have ruined it. Just my opinion. Micro beveled scandis do not cut the same.

[@Lars1540]

A Scandi grind with a micro-bevel is no longer a Scandi grind; it's a saber grind.

[@glytch5]

+Dan Schwemin Jr yeah man... actually recently I have taken up wood carving a bit, and in that field, a scandi is a lot of the time preferred for whittling into wood, so you know exactly where you are making your cuts, if you have a micro bevel on it, that angle changes and you have to correct for it. I personally don't like scandi knives, I can never follow the factory bevel properly and it irritates me!

[@zleggitt1989]

+Dan Schwemin Jr actualy a saber grind is hollow ground and a scandi grind is flat ground. same basic concept except the saber ground blade will be a little thinner.

[@Lars1540]

zleggitt1989 that's incorrect. Saber ground knives go from full blade stock to a secondary flat grind and finish with a primary bevel. I think you need to educate yourself on blade grinds again. No offense.

[@BennyCFD]

It really doesn't matter scandi, convex, concave or whatever, the only part of the edge that matters is within maybe 1/8 of an inch of the edge. Thats where all the work is done. That 1/8th could be scandi, or thin primary with a secondary. All it has to do is doing what you want it to do. Sushi, steak, skinning, whittling, survival, EDC.

[@keithhawkins653]

very late view and comment but that you for video great advice.

[@therealweenis]

You should try not to do videos on the sail of a sailboat anymore, it's hard to concentrate when the whiteboard is flapping in the wind.

[@2manysigns]

Good

[@sniprzkitty]

Clear consise advice with wobble...

[@rickjames5998]

lmao this audio is like early 90's cam corder mic

[@scottbuckler1106]

Armchair warrior attitude? I was out watering my barbed wire, what did I miss?

[@JoeThompson12345]

My Ears!

[@Wesslic]

You remind me of Kurt Russell

[@219garry]

That wall moving is making me nauseous.

[@nobilismaximus]

My god, what is with the camera? Makes me feel like I just fell out the LiquorDome in Halifax (Oh that was many moons ago).

[@newhampshirebound8551]

Hmm. I don't like this advice for a scandi. If you want a slicing blade, then use that. But thin the edge on a scandi and it won't be the same at all.

[@Hockeycoho]

Couldn't make it through more than 2 mins with the camera and horrible sound. Sorry, info was great but just couldn't take the bad sound.