Music Chat: Artists Who Actually Knew When to Quit

Believe it or not, there are artists around with sufficient integrity to retire at the peak of their fame and skills, before they deteriorate to the point where listeners begin to notice. It very rarely happens, and almost never with conductors, but there are notable examples. I explore them in this chat. Feel free to chime in with your own examples.

[@normanmeharry58]

I owe Janet Baker my love of finer music. As a child, I heard her singing Linden Lea and i wept at the ineffable beauty of it. I heard so many other sopranos sing it since but none moved me as she did.

[@ewmbr1164]

Great video, Dave! Thank you. I remember attending Gré Brouwenstijn's final performance in Amsterdam in the early 1970s. She sang Wagner and Verdi with the Concertgebouw Orchestra under Bernard Haitink. I was there with my parents, and after the concert my mother took me behind the stage. There many fans were gathered. Gré Brouwenstijn was easy-going, very kind and untiring in providing autographs. When it was my mother;'s turn, my mother said to the singer: "Thank you so much for this wonderful evening. I will miss hearing your voice." Brouwensteijn replied: "I am glad you did. You know, I always want to give my best, and I now feel it is time to leave the stage. Because I know this is the best I can give, and if I move on, I won't. And that isn't good for music, for me, and for you, for my audience. I have been given a great gift. I am profoundly grateful for it and want to share it with younger singers from now on"

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sounds like she memorized that beforehand!

[@ewmbr1164]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, you may be correct - indeed. I was a quite impressionable young teenager back then :-) I'm sure she didn't say this only once that night... Anyway, the evening was musically phenomenal. The concert wasn't given at the Concertgebouw, but at the RAI exhibit and convention center, to accommodate a much larger public. Needless to say, it had a bit of an atmosphere of celebrating Dutch pride (on a great summer evening, adding to the grand excitement). Here was, after all, Holland's Great Opera Singer Saying Goodbye. As far as I remember, this concert was her only big farewell bash; to her everlasting credit, she didn't spend years on a world-bye-bye-tour.

[@jackkrugman7140]

Eli Epstein! Second horn of the Cleveland symphony orchestra during the Dohnanyi days! He left the orchestra in the early 2000s during his prime to pursue horn teaching and pedagogy. He practically invented comprehensive anatomical brass pedagogy with his MRI research post his career in Cleveland and has revolutionized the world of horn playing in a major way. Also a very good teacher to myself and many others!

[@bloodgrss]

Another fun and fascinating video. I do await the one on 'Artists who never knew when NOT to start'. You have made some beginning on that...

[@stevenault2839]

David, your usual down to earth candor is much appreciated. I Attended a performance of Beethoven's 9th by Stokowski on the occasion of his 90th birthday that was absolutely phenomenal. Before the concert he announced that he was dedicating it to the cause of the U.S. getting out of Vietnam, which resulted in wild applause. Long ago, I read somewhere that Stokowski signed a ten-year recording contract at the age of 95.

[@jdistler2]

Wonderful video! Among sopranos who knew when to quit and did, don't forget Beverly Sills, who quit when she was 51, and she got lots of publicity when that happened back in (I think) 1980. The case of Vladimir Ashkenazy is interesting, because he retired in phases. First he stopped playing solo recitals in public. After he developed arthrosis in his hands, he retreated from all public piano performance, although he still made piano recordings, and conducted. And then in January 2020 it was announced that he'd retire for good. Alfred Brendel retired from playing for good (in concert and on record) in 2008 at 77, although he'd already been phasing out certain repertoire items. As for other consistent conductors who still delivered the goods into old age, I'd nominate Monteux and Ansermet.

[@scottkirby8204]

May I add Claudio Abbado?

[@TheTmackey]

I saw Brendel in his last 2 concerts in Chicago on his last tour and if he was less than perfect, he was wonderful and his humor was in full bloom. I miss seeing him.

[@maximisaev6974]

One thing I believe we can all agree on, and that is the list of those who knew when to go is dwarfed by the list of those who didn't. Great talk Dave!

[@leestamm3187]

Glad you mentioned Rosa Ponselle. She was really terrific. There are some reasonably good recordings of her on KZbin for anyone who is interested.

[@murraylow4523]

I’m reading all these comments with a lot of interest. I met Menuhin once as a teenager in Inverness of all places around 1980 and it was obvious he couldn’t do solo Bach anymore. But it made me think as this is all about careers that there is something moving in hearing the relative decline of great artists you’ve been paying attention to. I can think of several people who perhaps “should” have stopped but didn’t but the sheer life force is inspiring. Eg Fischer-Dieskau, Jessye Norman, Thelonious Monk.

[@b1i2l336]

Wow, this may be my favorite of all your video chats to date. What makes you so incredibly remarkable as a recordings critic is your vast, accurate, and highly informed knowledge of every aspect of music history, performance practice, and musical styles. You also have a marvelous sense of humor, so welcome in a field where heavy seriousness is the rule. I am a professional voice coach, pianist, and conductor, and am delighted that you know so much about singing and singers, a very narrow area for most. I can't even remember when I could chat with a colleague about classical music repertoire outside of Opera and Art Song! I consider myself very well informed about the overview of music history and recordings, but pale by comparison to you. I have learned many interesting tidbits of information by watching your videos, and also have been introduced to recordings I never knew existed, e.g., the Jean Morel complete Albéniz Iberia. If I may, would you also consider George Szell as an example of a conductor who not only kept his greatness and strength to the very end, even getting better in some instances? That sizzling live Sibelius Second from Tokyo, of which you made me aware, recorded just months before his death is a stunning example.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you for your kind words! I rule out Szell only because he died suddenly and was still (relatively speaking) young, but he was definitely in his prime until the very end.

[@folanpaul]

A lovely chat David, thank you. A companion talk on composers who knew when to quit may be apposite as a companion piece (not Sibelius, of course!)

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

Christa Ludwig❤️. I heard her do the Winterreise live. Also, she totally could have sung some soprano parts… her high C in her recording of Bluebeards Castle is a wonder!

[@martynasmatutis8284]

You're totally right that she probably could have sung soprano roles - the trouble would have been the expectation of the audiences to continue onto roles she wasn't suited for. Plus, it might have been a case like Callas recording Carmen - totally possible in the studio, but trying to perform it on stage would have been too much of a vocal strain.

[@geertdecoster5301]

Really lovely talk, Dave. Made my week alright. Could you do one on great (or perhaps rather more than good) artists who didn't improve much in their recordings? Just wondering about that... Nah, let me improve that question a bit. Who was that steady and good for most of her or his music career?

[@markgibson6654]

Stokowski....YES!!! Some of those late records and recorded live performances....wow. Thanks for mentioning him!

[@fpwalter6673]

His LSO Eroica is amazing for its long-lined, legato phrasing -- I've heard innumerable Eroicas, of course, but none like his.

[@markgibson6654]

@@fpwalter6673 I don't doubt it for a moment! I attended one of his concerts at Carnegie Hall way back when :) and he conducted Beethoven's 9th and it sang. I also have viewed film of a live recording of Beethoven's 5th with the LSO and it was like Promethius bringing fire from the heavens,like he had just discovered this wonderful new composition. You can find it on KZbin.Thanks for your reply. I will search for his LSO Eroica.

[@murrayaronson3753]

Don’t forget that Stokowski started up an orchestra that’s still around - the American Symphony Orchestrs. I went to many of their concerts in the 1960s and they were affordable.

[@franciscocanas5686]

Hey Dave, great work. How about a list of your favorite/best contemporary composers and recommended recordings? Gracias!

[@michaelharrison2405]

Some conductors seem to get slower as they get older, such as Klemperer, Giulini, Celibidache.

[@classicalperformances8777]

Very interesting. I always found it alarming when musicians/singers/soloists regarded conducting as a retirement "plan". Mainly because they skip entirely the training for their conducting technique, overall symphonic repertoire and the right(non solistic)mentality of the conductor. It is also alarming when orchestras just... let them do it.

[@asheko]

Great video ( as always ) - I have a request : Could you please do a video about Artur Rubinstein best recordings with orchestra ? He did the standart works several times in the studio. I would really like to know, which one to pick.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It's an easy call: when there are multiple versions in stereo, earliest is usually best.

[@DavidAgdern]

Heifetz’ last recital at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion is very moving in its way. There is a bit of deterioration in his legendary intonation, but it doesn’t matter. A soprano who retired (mostly) at her peak was Kathleen Battle, although not voluntarily, from what I understand.

[@richardwiley3676]

Great video and really interesting. Would you consider Sibelius in this category?

[@williamwhittle216]

Very interesting chat, especially about conductors. Once saw (and heard) him conduct the NYPO. He was also a Connecticut neighbor of my first wife and her parents, where he once knocked on the door. My mother-in-law was scared out of her wits because she had heard he was a lady's man. The visit turned out to innocent, thus ending this anti-climatic adventure.

[@jamesprudhomme6372]

The idea for this video is just terrific, and it is wonderful that you look at both singers and instrumentalists! I think Vickers retired at a reasonable time. He was certainly not in as good voice as he was earlier in his career, but he sounded reasonably well into the 80s. A video about artists who maintained excellence into their older age (essentially, their mid fourties and beyond) could also be interesting! Examples of singers would did this could incluce Bjorling, Ivan Kozlovsky, the aforementioned Vickers, Melchior, Nillson, Tamagno, and De Lucia.

[@SHawk48]

Stratas and Vickers have both come up. They studied at the same time at the conservatory in Toronto -- along with Robert Goulet.

[@mattbalfe2983]

Seems to me Monteux is another one of those conductors who didn't crack in old age. I haven't listened to all his recordings but I really like his Beethoven cycle, all of which were recorded in his 80's.

[@Mason-ze6ri]

Hi David, this is a very interesting topic indeed. Since you mentioned male opera singer, one that I can think of is Franco Corelli he left the Opera stage fairly early and at his prime

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Good call!

[@The_Jupiter2_Mission]

Didn't Corelli become more highly strung and increasingly get nervous attacks in his latter career? Perhaps that encouraged him to pull the plug. Why torture yourself.

[@ernestrobles1510]

Not a classical artist, but Artie Shaw comes to mind as someone who left the stage at the top of his game.

[@jorgereynosopholenz2865]

Thomas Quasthoff semi-retired as a concert singer in 2012, aguing mainly health issues. He continued doing coaching, Sprechstimme roles and some jazz

[@markbillinge554]

As always a fascinating listen. Might I add the name of Gundula Janowitz? Again she had a relatively limited repertoire (Bach, Mozart, Schubert, Strauss mainly) and an effortless technique which never seemed under strain. She retired at a relatively early age and left behind a representative but far from extensive discography. I have always thought her an artist of great integrity who quit when she was ahead.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Good pick!

[@michaelhartman8724]

Where do people like Eileen Farrell and Leontyne Price fit into this scenario? They both quit early (Price at about age 58, Farrell in her late 40s) from the opera stage, but continued off and on stage performances for some years after.

[@marks1417]

"Nobody expects Kremer to sound like Mischa Elman" LOL. It took a lot for Menuhin to stop playing, but towards the end he would only appear with his school orchestra - after a series of terrible reviews (particularly in UK) and EMI refusing to release his latest recording (something like the 7th) of Beethoven Concerto with a London orchestra. Even with splicing it was apparently un-usable. This is a very interesting review

[@marks1417]

Nathan Milstein was exceptional for a violin player in that he could play in tune in his mid-80s and still kept his distinctive sound. Meanwhile poor old Isaac Stern was a goner at just 60

[@joemahlerng]

True

[@methuseling]

Some only get going at 40 some are finished at 30

[@Don-md6wn]

I don't know if it's a function of being able to do a lot of takes on studio recordings or my ears not being that sensitive to intonation issues, but I have a decent number of chamber music recordings Stern made in his 60's and early 70's that seem plenty good to me. But none of them are live recordings.

[@The_Jupiter2_Mission]

Rossini more or less exited stage left of the Opera House at the grand old age of 36 and lived another 40 years! Did some little pieces late in the day but they were not meant to restart the career or meant for the big stage..

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, but those late pieces constitute a major legacy by any standard. You can't say he quit composing, only that he quit composing opera.

[@Vikingvideos50]

Yes! Rosa Ponselle!

[@jorgereynosopholenz2865]

Harnoncourt retired just 3 months before he died, and his last recordings reveal he was still as mad as a hatter at 85

[@geraldparker8125]

Franco Corelli retired in near full form. When he did come out thereof briefly to make a disc that included a stupendous performance of arias from Massenet's "Le Cid" and Verdi's "Otello", those selectiona were so amazing that anyone who doubted that Corelli retired in full form had to be deaf. Nonetheless, back into retirement he went. That man understood the human voice AND himself.

[@pavelinslovenia]

I know the list would be long, but one great violinist who retired much too late: Isaac Stern

[@josefkrenshaw179]

Teresa Stratas appeared on 'To Tell the Truth" in `1962 when she was just starting out at the Met. The video is on youtube and worth a look. She fooled the panel because of the pronunciation of "Don Jose:".

[@cormaclevinthal3496]

I heard Maxim Vergerov in concert a couple of years back. He played the Saint-Saëns, Introduction and Rondo and the Bruch Violin Concerto (No. 1). It was awful. Probably just a bad day, but it was riddled with mistakes and the intonation was off. The orchestra (Würth Phil) were also very questionable. As I said probably just a bad day, but Vengerov’s shoulder injury has done him no good….

[@classicalperformances8777]

I partially conducted those tour concerts. Maxim was also conducting the big symphonies in the same concerts, so he was preoccupied with his conducting, the orchestra had been on a long tour and getting exhausted with the schedule including extra rehearsals with Maxim for the symphonies, and in the end, with violinists it is a matter of taking the time to keep practicing no matter what, and if one neglects doing so, the neglect accumulates in result. Despite all that, the tour was mostly a success with many brilliant moments. I m sorry you caught us on a bad day.

[@alexanderrostel2167]

I completely agree with your selection and highly recommend the recent BBC documentary on Janet Baker (now on KZbin), where this topic is also addressed. Christa Ludwig quit because her motivation was to do justice to the composers she interpreted. As soon as she felt she was no longer able to do so, she retired. That’s integrity of the highest order. Elisabeth Schwarzkopf could be added here as well. Like Ludwig, she also taught extensively after retirement. You may wish to make a similar video, Dave, about artists who do not know when to stop: Domingo, Argerich and Barenboim come to mind. I would like to add Blomstedt to the conductors who show no sign of deterioration, despite their advanced age. On the contrary, it’s as if music is their elixir. His recent Beethoven VII and Schubert with the Berlin Philharmonics left me speechless. Brendel also retired when he was still at the height of his powers. Sadly, his farewell performance in Berlin was the first and only one I saw live. Singers praised for their longevity are usually basses and baritones: Matti Salminen and John Tomlinson come to mind. Lauritz Melchior also sang well beyond his prime, but still with remarkable prowess. On a related note: Dave, would you consider making a video of the ten best recordings of Barenboim, like you did for other conductors? It’ll be fascinating to know your favourites. Thanks for another thoughtful contribution. 🙏 I knew Rosa Ponselle from a conversation with an elderly gentleman who comforted me for being too young to have experienced Kleiber by saying that he felt the same in his youth, when another elderly man told him that the Aida they had just seen was the best since Ponselle in the 1920s. :)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'll consider Barenboim, sure. Thank you for the suggestion.

[@jonbaum]

Another soprano who quit in time was Renata Tebaldi, as she herself said "I don't want to see my decline documented in the press". I don't think Haitink or Skrowaczewski deteriorated. And Herbert Blomstedt is another marvel.

[@dennischiapello3879]

I read Christa Ludwig's biography on an earlier recommendation of yours, and she said something like, "You can't do anything about it, when the voice goes, it's kaput." About her repertoire, remember, she did eventually record the Marschallin, under Bernstein. That surely was sweet success, after having had to sing Octavian all those years. I think Marilyn Horne must have retired before she lost much ground. (I guess mezzos as a group are especially intelligent.) Placido Domingo finessed to some degree a drawn-out career by switching to Wagner and baritone roles. In fact, he seems not to have left anything unsung. One of the few artists whose goal was to increase their breadth of repertoire.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, Marilyn Horne retired while still is great shape.

[@bbailey7818]

Stokowski was amazing, no doubt. Maybe it was yoga. I understand in his latest years he was physically frail and had to be assisted to the podium but once the music began he was acute and ready. Klemperer should definitely have quit before he did. Those late Mozart operas or the Walkuere Act 1 are deadly, horribly slow and heavy. Toscanini got more rigid, less flexible than he had been earlier. But on the exact same day as he recorded that Haydn 94, he also did the Mussorgsky Pictures that you have praised. And his last season had perhaps his finest recorded Eroica and one of his greatest concerts, released by RCA, of the Verdi Te Deum and Boito Mefistofele Prologue done a couple of weeks before he retired. Beecham also kept it together to an amazing degree. His EMI Carmen may not have the vigor and schwung of his Met performances of the 40s but it's consistently elegant, polished, alive like no other though some may prefer a slightly less ladylike Carmen than de los Angeles gives us.

[@thomasbirkhahn9616]

Going to hear Herbert Blomstedt in a few days. Let's see what he can so with 95...

[@poturbg8698]

Szell was consistently good right up until the end of his life. There are numerous broadcasts with Cleveland and also Vienna Phil from his last three years that are marvelous, including that Sibelius 2 from Japan a month before he died.

[@michaelharrison2405]

Szell died of cancer aged only 73.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Exactly. He was still relatively young.

[@philscott6085]

Someone may have mentioned him already, but Ansermet was consistent till the last. One of his final recordings - the Magnard Third Symphony - was one of his best. Unfortunately, the OSR was pretty consistent too.

[@ericjiang7801]

Regarding Christa Ludwig's artistic integrity: she was originally booked to do the remake of Das Knaben Wunderhorn with Bernstein for DG and the RCO, but rejected when she realized she would not be able to match her voice from her previous recording with Bernstein and the NYP. From what I've heard from your other videos, this attitude seems rather rare considering the number of artists who continually rerecord the same repertoire with declining quality and without considering their previous work.

[@williamguerin6946]

I remember sitting in a movie theater watching one of those simulcast Met Opera broadcasts when they had the Met Opera premiere of Nixon in China, and hearing James Maddalena trying to sing Nixon several decades after he created the role was sad and painful. He literally couldn’t sing the part and had to drop parts down the octave. When he did sing the right notes it was a horrible, unsteady, thin, strained tone. What’s sad is that’s likely going to be the only performance of that opera available on DVD for years to come

[@David-pt8ge]

Cotrubas went very early. Was singing in London and was meant to be involved in a gala, but just said nope. I’m finished. Tomowa-Sintow stepped in for her. B

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

LEOPOLD!!!! That’s how he got players to do what he wanted.

[@alexthecamel1270]

A couple of months ago I saw Domingo in the American Airlines lounge at Buenos Aires airport. He had performed a programme of Verdi (baritone) arias at the Colon the previous evening. I am not sure what I was more surprised by: his 81 years or the size of entourage (we're talking the head of state of a medium sized country).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

He always travelled "in state." Ridiculous.

[@jerelzoltick6900]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Domingo should have retired years ago. He was not a good Baritone.

[@jonbaum]

​@@jerelzoltick6900Precisely. He's been making a fool of himself for years

[@jverheij97]

Can you do a video review of the new recording of Beethoven 6 by Honeck?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I will when I have it.

[@rsmickeymooproductions4877]

There is a video on KZbin of Christina Ludwig performing with Bernstein in rehearsals. She is singing in German but cannot pronounce the words quick enough for Bernstein's pace. Bernstein ends up saying forget the words as the audience would not be able to hear them anyway. She is young at the time but still held her own. Definitely mutual respect on both accounts

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It's Das Lied von der Erde--"Of Beauty"--the impossible middle section.

[@petterw5318]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I have no doubt Mahler would have revised this section if he had heard the work performed.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@petterw5318 Maybe, maybe not. The problem isn't the speed as much as the fact that it lies very low, in a weak part of the voice.

[@fpwalter6673]

@@DavesClassicalGuide And Ludwig was a high mezzo -- early on she actually considered graduating to soprano (Fidelio, Bruennhilde). Anyhow, a delightful show as usual!

[@Mogpops2]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I must say, I very much dislike the idea that the lower section of the voice is a weak section. It is only so when a true chest register is not engaged, but with proper singing technique the lower register should not be a weak register, especially for mezzos and contraltos.

[@nealkurz6503]

Would you agree that Isaac Stern was a bit like Menuhin in his later years, because it was more about musical values in his approach than the technical finish per say, at least from the 1960s onward? His decline was more gradual that Menuhin, who seemed to lose something shortly after his prodigious prodigy period. Milstein maintained his abilities until he had to stop (due to a hand injury, I believe?). Indeed his 70s recordings seem MORE interesting (and just as able) than previous versions. Szigeti kept going a bit too long after his Parkinson's eroded his steadiness, but was another who was not as focused on the "virtuoso" repertory. Shura Cherkassky kept up his quirky technical prowess until the end, and probably was not MORE quirky musically near the end, because he always was! Stokowski was a miracle. Ward Marston got to meet him in the early 70s, and he told him, amazingly, "I'm not quite sure if I'm awake or asleep until I get in front of an orchestra"! Talk about being born for something!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I agree about Stern.

[@bigg2988]

The way you either unintentionally turned, or had to turn, the talk away from artists who "knew" when to quit, to those that were able to remain their own best version until death, proves me one thing. The artists NEVER quit because they just plainly and truthfully feel they are headed downhill. :) Even those you named - they had other motives to guide the decision. Like Liszt, who arguably quit the touring because he felt fed up and wanted to settle down with his, er, partner, the Russian duchess, in the safety the court of Weimar offered. His stardom was not self-sufficient, and having earned enough money, the man's desire for peace won over the vanity of a virtuoso. I really, really think Heifetz was the only one of those mentioned who did not simply change a career, or go out of business because of conflicts of some kind, but simply - retired. There is a story that after his last recital in California (duly recorded, must have been 1972), he thanked the public and said he felt spent. And walked away. Others have noted some Classical artists who "phased themselves out", and that is also a respectable way to leave, without great shock for oneself or the public. Probably, that is the way it ought to be.

[@shimoncrown]

I was waiting for you to mention Dame (I am an ex-Brit) Kiri Te Kanawa.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You mean Dame Erie Lackawanna.

[@ahartify]

Kiri Te Kanawa said she bowed out when she was sixty. She was at her best with Solti conducting Mozart. Her Tosca with Solti was also good.

[@libor4128]

Very interesting video, many thanks. My suggestions for artists who continued to be excellent until very old age are Charles Mackerras (because he was a genius) and Ivan Moravec (because he chose his repertoire wisely). Zuzana Ruzickova stopped playing in public because she wanted (in her own words) people to think ‘what a pity she no longer performs’ rather than ‘what a pity she still performs’.

[@AlexMadorsky]

One day, we need a video on the best names in classical music. A great conductor couldn’t possibly have a more apt name than Gunther Wand.

[@jamesprudhomme6372]

Ponselle recorded some things in the 50s . . . the recordings are horrible! I also would like to see some song cycle ideal lists.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'll think about it.

[@gregorystanton6150]

I think Marilyn Horne might qualify. She slowed down considerably before she retired. I heard her do Tancredi years ago, I think her last appearance on stage, and she was still good, if not at the top of her form. In my youth I had the privilege of watching her rehearse, and was impressed how careful she was with her voice, never using it fully, using rehearsal time for tempo and blocking, saving the full blow for the performance. She had a reliable instrument for a long time, longer than most.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Already mentioned

[@gregorystanton6150]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I listened to the whole video all over again and didn't catch where she was mentioned.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@gregorystanton6150 In the comments. Sorry if I wasn't clear. That's why I always ask that people read them before posting the same stuff over again.

[@user-lr6cd4nx8j]

Alfred Brendel is another artist who quit while still in his prime.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that.

[@sebastianmyhre7220]

Great stuff as always, David! Incidentally, I’d love to hear your take on Klaus Mäkelä now having been announced as the next chief conductor of the Concertgebouw orchestra. It’s not effective till 2027, so maybe he’ll have have grown up by then!

[@sebastianmyhre7220]

In fact, that might be a topic for a video in itself- artists who knew to wait for a certain level of maturity before starting their careers/taking on certain repertoire!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Since I only know his work from that Sibelius cycle (and some KZbin stuff) I really have no comment other than to see it's obvious he's too young, and I wish him well.

[@MDK2_Radio]

I thought for sure you would say Bernstein held it up til the end, after all you prefer a couple of his 80s Mahler symphonies over his 60s recordings, and his terrific Shostakovich 7 with Chicago was from 88 or 89. Although I guess that one is viewed by some as having slower than standard tempi. You mentioned Winterreise. I’d be delighted to see a repertoire survey video of that cycle, if that’s not already on your to-do list.

[@leestamm3187]

Bernstein was only 5 days retired when he died at age 72. While a few of his last recordings might not match much of his earlier work, I think it's fair to say he was still pretty good when he decided to retire.

[@MDK2_Radio]

@@leestamm3187 I agree. And I guess that technically, if one can say he wasn't still at his very best at the end, that he doesn't qualify to make this list. Still, recording something like that Shostakovich 7th that late in his career showed there was still a lot left in the tank, if only his emphysema hadn't made him more vulnerable to a heart attack. EDIT: I see from some of his other responses that Dave doesn't consider 72 to be old. I suppose not when compared to Stokowski but that was about the average longevity for American males when Lenny left us.

[@leestamm3187]

@@MDK2_Radio I'm 73, so I'll go with Dave's definition. ;)

[@MDK2_Radio]

@@leestamm3187 😊 I’m rooting for you to do your part to keep raising the average.

[@yiyuanxie7887]

I think Alfred Brendel quits when he was still in his prime. Well, perhaps not in his absolute prime, but I don’t think he comprised his standard for staying on the stage longer.

[@Don-md6wn]

As Jed Distler said in a comment earlier, Brendel narrowed his repertoire in the years before he retired to pieces he thought he could still play at a very high level. I recall shortly after his last Beethoven cycle on disc (recorded in the 1990's when he was in his early to mid 60's) he said he would no longer play the Hammerklavier sonata in public.

[@yiyuanxie7887]

@@Don-md6wn Indeed. I remember that statement about Hammerklavier, too. That very last Hammerklavier remains his personal favorite, which itself says a lot about him. When Claudio Arrau died, he left a lot of unfinished projects. It almost look like he knew that he could not live long enough to finish them. Sad.

[@katzofe]

Knappertsbusch still made a great Parsifal jast before he daid in 65

[@josephromance3908]

How far did Szell decline from his greatest heights?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not a bit.

[@frankwalker5040]

Many years ago I read in the Strad magazine, that Heifetz said to Erick Friedman that he was drastically cutting down on his concerts, because " Erick, things aren't what they used to be" Heifetz was only 55 years of age at the time, and could already see a decline in his playing. He did carry on makeing recordings and concerts, but in a was semi retired way.

[@daniellu8282]

So when should composers quit?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

When I tell them to, obviously.

[@daniellu8282]

@@DavesClassicalGuide That reminds me of a Glenn Gould interview where he said that Alban Berg died at just the right time.

[@vrfvfdcdvgtre2369]

Sometimes you don´t have to quit, if you are fired, like Kathleen "I Survived The" Battle from the Met & everywhere, establishing a legendish diva legacy, good & bad. Then Peter Gelb brought her back, but the glory days are over, for the Met, and her, sorry.

[@composingpenguin]

Verdi knew when to, if not quit, at least take his sweet time. Even though he spent years on them, his final operas are magnificent achievements; indeed, I would argue Falstaff is one of the greatest last works of any artist in any medium.

[@dennischiapello3879]

It might be more accurate to say Verdi retired ahead of his time. It was only because Boito twice lured him out of retirement that he composed Otello and Falstaff. And those two really shine. Verdi himself must have been amazed that he was capable of writing Falstaff.

[@fredericmorris2931]

Isn’t Herbert Blomstedt still conducting at a high level.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not always.

[@Winnepausakee]

I am not a musician, nor a performer. I sing, however, and find my range increased without wobble or hoarseness after age 65 and a slight change in technique. I have sworn oral testimony from two instructors that I'm not delusional. So, I worry and wonder, why those of far more training and attentive practice ie with coach and accompanist, might seek to or have to retire in 40's and 50's? Poor technique, lack of physical fitness for their instrument or the schedule of venues and the travel and the living our of a suitcase? It shocks me to think that the physical means of producing a sound with any instrument would necessarily decline as early as is the case with some of the performers mentioned.

[@jerelzoltick6900]

Szell and Reiner were great to the end

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They don't count. They both died suddenly and were relatively young.

[@JaneSmith_]

I would also add Pierre Monteux, Charles Mackerras and Kurt Sanderling to the list of conductors who didn't decline at all by the end of their careers. PS: Another more debatable example is Roger Norrington (who wasn't that great to begin with and who I would argue actually improved somewhat by the end).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Mackerras and Monteux, for sure, but Sanderling was definitely infected by an attack of the "slows" although we rally don't have enough evidence on disc to judge.

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

Stokowski was the Yul Brynner of conductors… creating a fake biography for his career…

[@bigbong620]

At least Brynner's accent wasn't fake (as far as I know).

[@bplonutube]

I would make the case that George Szell remained consistent until the end.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

I saw Domingo in Simon Boccanegra at the MET a few years back, and he sounded great. Of course, he has managed his voice well over the years, and now no longer sings the big tenor roles. But he sounded fantastic in that role. (But the opera itself was rather boring.)

[@theosalvucci8683]

Eugene Ormandy should have retired much earlier than he did. His tempi slowed down and the music sounded accomplished and polite, but that was all. Once he conducted a piece that changed from common time to waltz time, but he missed the change and continued to beat out common time. Luckily, the music went back to common time and the number of measures in three - fourths time was such that he go back on beat. But he could be a really exciting conductor. I can't do without his Pathetique on Columbia.